The Commentary Magazine Podcast: "The RFK Craziness"

Date: September 5, 2025
Host: John Podhoretz
Guests: Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Christine Rosen

Overview of the Episode

In this episode, the Commentary Magazine editors dive into the controversy surrounding Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s recent Senate hearing, exploring RFK Jr.'s ongoing anti-vaccine activism, the broader cultural battles over vaccination and public health, and the ways in which elite attitudes and institutional failures inflame distrust. The conversation also touches on recent developments in Israel’s war with Hamas, the Trump administration’s performative renaming of the Pentagon, upheavals in higher education leadership, and some lighthearted observations on recent sports oddities.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. RFK Jr.’s Senate Hearing and Vaccine Controversies

• RFK Jr. Accuses Elizabeth Warren of Big Pharma Ties:
  • John finds it “amusing” that RFK accused Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a progressive often hostile to corporations, of being beholden to Big Pharma, despite the Kennedy family's own likely investments in pharmaceutical companies.
  • “I just think it's amusing that he should turn to her and act like she is the senator from, you know, New Jersey protecting Pfizer…” (04:10, John)
• Kennedy Family Wealth and Hypocrisy:
  • The panel highlights RFK Jr.’s financial privilege and suggests his criticism of others’ pharma connections while benefiting indirectly is hypocritical.
• Anti-Vaccine Advocacy and Public Health Risks:
  • Christine labels RFK Jr. a “crank” with a long-standing anti-vaccine agenda enabled by generational wealth, and is deeply concerned about the real-world consequences of anti-vax policies, especially after recent measles outbreaks and child deaths.
  • “But children need vaccinations. And this is, this is just simple fact.” (07:49, Christine)
  • The discussion connects RFK’s rise to a resurgence in anti-vax sentiment, referencing its lingering size and influence—the “iceberg is deeper and it’s out there” (08:47, Seth).
  • Abe notes how Kennedy’s high-profile stance potentially emboldens and legitimizes anti-vaccine movements that might otherwise have remained marginal.

2. Cultural and Political Roots of Vaccine Resistance

• Institutional Failure and Reform:
  • Christine warns that RFK Jr. uses real failures at CDC, NIH, and FDA as cover for spreading debunked anti-vaccine ideas.
  • “Those institutions all need serious reform. That's the truth. And so what he's doing, though, is invoking that reality...in order to pursue his cranky vision…” (11:47, Christine)
  • Abe predicts Kennedy’s presence will ultimately discredit needed reform efforts in health agencies.
• Vaccine Mandates and American Individualism:
  • John and Christine discuss the “luxury” of vaccine skepticism, noting that mandates arose not to oppress but to protect children and society from preventable disease.
  • “It is a luxury good to start worrying about vaccines because it means you don't know that for 5 million years, 20 to 25% of children didn't live past their 5th or 7th or 9th birthdays because of diseases that have been eliminated by vaccination.” (14:33, John)
  • The debate acknowledges deeply ingrained American resistance to compulsion, but insists the benefits of mandatory vaccination are overwhelming (16:20–19:29).

3. Public Health Messaging, COVID, and Loss of Trust

• Deconstructing Messaging Failures:
  • Panelists critique “noble lies” told by public health officials about the reach and effectiveness of COVID vaccines and other interventions, arguing this eroded trust and fueled skepticism.
  • “One lesson I think people really need to learn is don't lie. I know that seems really simple, but, like, don't say that the COVID vaccine will stop you from getting Covid or spreading Covid. Say what? You know, right?...people will be able to make hay out of one lie…” (31:00, Seth)
• Role of Elites and Cultural Fractures:
  • The "elites" are seen as worsening suspicion by flaunting expertise and authority rather than demonstrating humility or building trust with those outside their class (36:31–38:09, Christine).
  • “They flaunt their knowledge and their superiority...And that sense of entitlement makes it impossible for them to acknowledge the impact on people who aren't from their class.” (37:21, Christine)
• Vaccine Culture Wars and Specific Outbreaks:
  • The conversation traces how HPV (Gardasil) and Monkeypox vaccine debates became proxies for larger cultural battles on sex, morality, and identity.

4. Israel, Hamas, and the International Narrative

• Analysis of Israel’s Offensive in Gaza:
  • John argues that regardless of international condemnation, Israel now functions with a virtual “free hand” in Gaza, constrained only by its own moral codes, since external opinion is already fixed against it.
  • “Nothing that they do or don't do has any effect on this body of opinion that has turned so explicitly hostile. And therefore, they have a free hand.” (58:01, John)
• Media, Blood Libel, and the Weaponization of Children:
  • Abe and Seth highlight the unique focus on children in anti-Israel reporting, likening it to historic blood libels:
    • “Pay attention to how many times they say children…That's the giveaway…We don't talk about war in general as, oh, the children…But we talk about Israel as child [killers].” (65:17, Seth)
• Debunking Misinformation:
  • The hosts recount recent efforts debunking alleged Israeli atrocities, arguing that such lies—including those promoted by major organizations—are antisemitic in nature, echoing medieval tropes (64:12–66:59).

5. Campus Upheaval and Political Incentives

• Higher Education Under Pressure:
  • John asks Christine about the fallout as university presidents (e.g., at Northwestern) are pressured to resign due to federal scrutiny (especially under Trump) over their handling of campus antisemitism and leftist orthodoxy.
  • Christine observes that the previously “cushy” job of university president is now fraught, with real accountability and countervailing incentive—finally—against catering exclusively to the left (70:31–72:15, Christine).
  • “For the last 20 years, there has been no disincentive on the part of administrators or anybody in the world of higher education...not to cater to the leftist voices…What Trump has done…has created a counter incentive across the United States…” (69:18, John)

6. Other Notable Topics

• Trump’s ‘Department of War’:
  • The panel decries Trump’s executive order to rename the Pentagon as the Department of War, calling it “performative and stupid” but also debating the symbolism of such a move (40:22–44:16).
• Sports and American Social Norms (Lighthearted Wrap-Up):
  • The episode ends with the crew riffing on odd happenings in football and baseball, reflecting on changing attitudes to sportsmanship and social norms (74:07–78:50).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Kennedy Family Hypocrisy:
  "I assume that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has made his living in fact off the Kennedy Family Trust … [which] has at many points … purchased stock in pharmaceutical companies … So to add to his list of sins, his own rank hypocrisy, I think is worth noting."
  (05:22, John)

• On Vaccine Mandates & History:
  "It is a luxury good to start worrying about vaccines because it means that you don't know that for 5 million years, 20 to 25% of children didn't live past their 5th or 7th or 9th birthdays because of diseases that have been eliminated by vaccination."
  (14:33, John)

• On the Failure of Public Health Messaging:
  "…don't say that the COVID vaccine will stop you from getting Covid or spreading Covid. Say what you know, right? Because then people got Covid anyway and spread Covid anyway and said, boy, I wonder what else they're lying about."
  (31:00, Seth)

• On How Elites Make It Worse:
  "They flaunt their knowledge and their superiority in a way that I think … becomes self reinforcing … And that sense of entitlement makes it impossible for them to acknowledge the impact on people who aren't from their class."
  (37:21, Christine)

• On the Unique Targeting of Israel:
  “Pay attention to how many times they say children, because there's this … it's become like a vocal tick…That is absolutely a … residue from, you know, these sort of medieval blood libels and the culture that sprang from it.”
  (65:17, Seth)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:01] — RFK Jr. Senate hearing, attacks on Warren, Kennedy wealth
• [06:13] — Christine on anti-vax risks and MAGA culture
• [08:42] — Size of anti-vax movement and Kennedy as lightning rod
• [13:12] — Vaccine mandates as historical necessity; “luxury” of vaccine resistance
• [20:12] — Public health myths; vaccine culture war moments (HPV, Monkeypox)
• [28:46] — Overreach in public health, pseudo-universal mandates, institutional backlash
• [31:00] — Dangers of the “noble lie” in vaccine messaging
• [36:31] — Elites, class divides, and the impact on trust
• [52:59] — Israeli offensive in Gaza, moving public opinion, international hostility
• [65:17] — The targeting of children in anti-Israel rhetoric; the language of blood libel
• [69:18] — Trump’s pressure on universities changes the incentive structure of campus politics
• [72:34] — Christine recommends The Golden Thread (Gelzo & Hankins)
• [74:07] — Panel wraps up with stories about sports, changing norms, and childhood memories

Tone & Style

The panel’s tone is intellectual, wry, and often sardonic—frequently segueing between serious analysis and cultural mockery. They blend erudite references with snappy, conversational banter, using humor to underscore the absurdities of public life.

Final Recommendation

Christine’s reading pick:

• “The Golden Thread: From the Ancient World to Christendom” by Allen Gelzo and James Hankins—a sweeping, highly readable new history of Western civilization.

For listeners seeking deeper understanding of today’s vaccine debates, the shifting norms around public health and elite authority, and the challenges facing Israel and higher education, this episode provides sharp, historically grounded commentary—often provocative, always stimulating.

“Keep the candle burning.”