The Commentary Magazine Podcast — "The Self-Owners"

Date: January 28, 2026
Host: Jon Podhoretz
Guests: Abe Greenwald, Eliana Johnson, Seth Mandel, Christine Rosen

Overview

This episode explores the current state of American political polarization, with a focus on the intensifying conflict surrounding immigration enforcement, the rhetoric and tactics of the populist right, and the cultural transformation within conservative politics. The hosts dissect recent news events—including attacks on public officials and the scandal surrounding Ilhan Omar—while offering insight into the broader cultural and institutional shifts at play.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Violence and Escalating Tensions in American Politics

• Ilhan Omar Incident ([01:22] – [04:28]):
  • A Minneapolis man attacked Rep. Ilhan Omar with a foul-smelling substance at a public event. The hosts agree all attacks against public officials are unacceptable, regardless of partisan lines.
  • Christine Rosen highlights the broader trend: “...the rising number of threats against our elected officials. It’s bad.” ([03:17])
  • Discussion about Omar’s own scandals, with ongoing investigations into her campaign finances.
  • Jon underscores that the DOJ began investigating Omar during the Biden administration, not Trump’s, suggesting credible concerns.

“No one should attack a public official. I don’t care if you’re from the right or the left. This is bad.” — Christine Rosen ([03:17])

2. Immigration Enforcement: Policy, Optics, and Political “Own Goals”

• Democratic and Republican Maneuvering ([04:28] – [11:03]):
  • Jon posits that Democrats have successfully galvanized their base by framing Trump’s actions as “incipient fascism.”
  • Abe Greenwald attributes the Democrats' momentum less to sophisticated strategic operations and more to Trump’s “own goal”—Republicans’ handling of immigration allows Democrats to frame the debate.

“They have talked themselves into the idea that what we are seeing here is, you know, incipient fascism... all forms of resistance are morally justified.” — Jon Podhoretz ([06:05])

• Case Study: Judge Hannah Dugan Incident ([09:16]):

  • The case of a judge facilitating an illegal immigrant's escape is discussed as an example of moral action versus legal duty—a “movie moment” highlighting the stakes and self-perception on all sides.

• Self-Fulfilling Prophecy ([11:03] – [11:53]):

  • Seth notes the danger of telling people they’re in an existential struggle until it becomes reality—leading to performative actions by both activists and law enforcement.

“You very quickly can become the mask you’re wearing… there is a self-fulfilling prophecy element to pretending you’re in pre-war Germany.” — Seth Mandel ([11:03])

3. Shifting Media Narratives and Displacement of Scandal

• Somali Fraud Scandal & Media Coverage ([11:57] – [14:28]):
  • Eliana links the surge in immigration enforcement to a tactical deflection from headlines about Somali public program fraud in Minnesota.
  • The administration’s actions accidentally sideline coverage of the fraud—potentially to its own detriment.

“They may be right on the merits… but it has had the practical effect of pushing these headlines about the Somali public programs fraud out of totally off the radar.” — Eliana Johnson ([13:20])

4. The Populist Right: Cosplay, Edginess, and Victimology

• Embracing Allegations of Fascism ([14:30] – [20:14]):

  • Abe and Christine discuss how some on the right relish accusations of extremism, viewing them as badges of power.
  • Christine warns that second-term Trump hires and staffers often signal to the far-right, with open appeals on official government channels—unlike the previous administration.

• Transgressive Culture & The Anti-PC Impulse ([26:30] – [32:22]):

  • Jon recalls college-era anti-left transgression and how imitation of villainous roles can spiral: “Transgression is a form of cosplay. But it starts to reflect on other people who are not transgressive...”
  • Christine distinguishes the “edgelord” young right from 80s-2000s conservative activists: "They dislike us as much as they dislike the left. And that is a big shift..." ([30:47])

• Destruction vs. Reform of Institutions ([32:22] – [35:43]):

  • Jon is sympathetic to skepticism of institutional reform but warns against overcorrecting—citing the Heritage Foundation’s misguided push to fire George Shultz as an example.

5. Transgression as Strategy & The Victimhood Turn

• Transgression, Media, and Policy ([38:13] – [40:27]):
  • Abe suggests right-wing “transgression” emerged due to frustrated attempts to break into a liberal-dominated culture—now, with social media reach, it has become an end in itself.

“Finally we found purchase. We’ve got something sexy. The left had everything sexy… What did we have? Tax cuts… now we’ve got this sexy thing.” — Abe Greenwald ([39:08])

• Victimology on the Right ([40:07]):
  • Christine and Seth cite Noah Rothman’s argument that the right has adopted a version of the left’s culture of victimhood, with its own detrimental effects.

6. The Dangers of Narrative-Setting and Reactive Politics

• Setting the Narrative After Crisis ([42:36] – [46:33]):
  • In discussing how authorities respond to incidents (like the Charlie Kirk shooting), Jon criticizes the impulse to "spin" before facts are available—emphasizing that cool competence would be more effective.

“The impulse to say the thing first on social media that will be the most viral is a bizarre one… you already have control of the microphone.” — Jon Podhoretz ([43:19])

7. Federal vs. Local Authority and Immigration

• Minneapolis Leadership and ICE ([56:53] – [59:33]):
  • Eliana and Jon discuss Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey’s open refusal to enforce federal immigration law. Jon clarifies Frey is correct that localities are not obliged to do so—a federalism issue—but warns that refusing to enforce local laws (e.g., against street blockades or harassing police) is irresponsible.

8. Implications for Republican Politics

• Impact on GOP Morale and Recruiting ([56:55] – [58:26]):
  • Christine notes GOP candidates are dropping out, and established Republicans like Mike Lawler and Thom Tillis are openly dissenting from party leadership on immigration. The fracturing poses long-term risks for the party.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American Extremism:

  • “I'm perfectly happy to go to the America as a lunatic asylum argument also.” — Jon Podhoretz ([02:47])

• On Cultural Shifts:

  • “The Overton window has shifted… [edgy, white nationalist views] are much more popular among young people on the far right.” — Eliana Johnson ([23:37])

• On Destructive Impulses:

  • “The idea we had was to rescue these institutions from themselves. They seem to want to destroy the institution.” — Christine Rosen ([30:47])

• On Government Messaging:

  • “Don’t muddy it more. You’re gonna lose credibility if you muddy it more.” — Jon Podhoretz ([53:28])

• On Political Cosplay:

  • “We really never want to get back to a position where we’re fighting each other in this way… stop pretending like revolution is something we cosplay.” — Christine Rosen ([62:38])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Ilhan Omar attack & threats to politicians: [01:22] – [04:28]
• Dems’ success mobilizing over ‘fascism’ frame: [04:28] – [08:42]
• Judge Dugan’s moral drama & mass mobilization: [09:16] – [11:03]
• Self-fulfilling prophecy & cultural performance: [11:03] – [11:53]
• Somali fraud scandal pushed out of narrative: [11:57] – [14:28]
• Rise of right-wing edgelords in federal gov: [14:30] – [26:21]
• Historical context for conservative transgression: [26:30] – [32:22]
• Destruction vs. reform of institutions: [32:22] – [35:43]
• Transgression as ‘sexy’ strategy: [39:08]
• Reactive narrative-setting & government comms: [42:36] – [46:33]
• Federal vs. local law enforcement divide: [56:53] – [59:33]

Recommendation Segment

• Book Recommendation ([60:40] – [63:08]):
  • Christine Rosen suggests “Scars of Independence: America’s Violent Birth” by Holger Hoock to better appreciate the brutal reality of the American Revolution and reflect on the dangers of political violence and “cosplay revolution.”

Conclusion

This episode delivers an incisive, candid take on the rising heat in American politics, especially regarding immigration and how both sides are reshaping their narratives and strategies. The hosts point to a dangerous feedback loop of victimhood, transgression, and performative radicalism on the right, inadvertently abetted by inept government messaging and successful media framing on the left. Their discussion reveals a political landscape where stoking existential fears and embracing edgelord tactics might score short-term points but risk long-term chaos and institutional decay.