The Shutdown Comedy

Summary

The Commentary Magazine Podcast

Episode: The Shutdown Comedy

Date: October 1, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this lively episode, John Podhoretz is joined by Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, and Matthew Continetti as they tackle the politics and spectacle of the latest government shutdown in Washington. The panel also dissects the current infighting between Democrats and Republicans, the peculiarities of media coverage, the shifting fault lines among Jewish American voters, and even finds time for a lengthy, affectionate discussion of “Curb Your Enthusiasm” and its comedic genius.
The tone is sharp, witty, and intellectually engaged, with an undercurrent of political exasperation and a healthy dose of Jewish humor.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Government Shutdown: What Happened and Why

• Republicans' "clean CR" was rejected: The Trump administration and Congressional Republicans offered a "clean continuing resolution" (CR) to fund the government at current levels, which the majority of Democrats in the Senate rejected. Three Democrats (Fetterman, Cortez Masto, and Angus King) voted with Republicans, but not enough to break a filibuster. [04:23]

  • Quote, Matt: "A clean CR is what I think is kind of silly jargon to just describe a bill that would keep the government running at current spending levels." [07:13]
  • Democrats are demanding a continuation of expanded Affordable Care Act subsidies, the reversal of some Trump administration spending cuts (notably to USAID and Medicaid), and other concessions.
  • The panel notes the irony of Democrats relying on the filibuster—something they often decry—to block the resolution.

• Chuck Schumer and Democratic politics: Continetti suggests Schumer is making these demands out of fear of a primary challenge from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

  • Quote, Matt: "Chuck Schumer is afraid of a girl. He's afraid of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez..." [09:45]

• The political dynamic: The panelists agree that shutdowns have become less effective as political weapons compared to the 1990s, with the American public becoming somewhat numb to the spectacle.

  • Quote, Abe: "At this point, the voters, the country, have been through so many bigger fights, so many more spectacular crises... this has now happened with a kind of regularity, such that it just doesn't have the impact either way that some people seem to think it does at this point." [18:27]

2. How Media Framing and Partisan Roles Have Flipped

• Comparisons with past shutdowns: The panel references the 1995 shutdown and how the media reliably placed the blame on Republicans. They note a lack of such symmetry now, and a lingering conventional wisdom that shutdowns hurt Republicans.

  • Quote, Matt: "I don't see a similar symmetry in the media coverage of the two shutdowns, do you? ... this shutdown being covered very differently..." [11:37]

• Party of Government: The group points out that government-employee-heavy Democratic constituencies are more directly affected by a shutdown, and Republicans may suffer less long-term political pain than is generally supposed.

  • Quote, Matt: "All of the government programs that the media is saying may be affected by this... are Democratic programs. They're funded by Democratic votes. They support Democratic constituencies..." [16:12]

3. The Growing Size of the Federal Government & Budget Deficit

• John marvels at how budget deficits have ballooned since the late 1970s. What was once a national crisis—$6 billion in deficit—is now routine ($1 trillion+). [25:13]
  • Quote, John: "Would you like to know what the size of the federal budget deficit was in February 1979? $6 billion. ... It is now well over a trillion dollars." [25:46]
• The argument is made that shutdown fights are often "narishkeit" (nonsense) relative to genuinely huge fiscal challenges.

4. Gaza, Israel, and Trump Administration Policy

• The group pivots to a discussion on a new Trump-backed peace deal for Gaza and media coverage thereof, triggered by a controversial Axios scoop.
  • Skepticism of media leaks: The group derides reporting that Trump had to pressure Netanyahu to accept the peace deal, arguing Trump’s plan is everything the Israeli government could want.
    • Quote, John: "This is the dumbest and the most preposterous [story] that I have ever seen. ... the Trump peace plan is a dream come true for Bibi." [31:01]
• Operation and strategy: The discussion points out the high level of coordination between the US and Israel—exemplified in past operations and the current plan for peace in Gaza.
• Media focus: Panelists point out that media rarely present Hamas as the obstacle to peace, instead framing the issue as a dispute between Israel and international opinion. [39:44]
• Changing American opinions: The conversation shifts to polling showing a shift in Democratic sympathies from Israel to Palestinians, which they interpret as a sea change in American Jewish life and broader political culture. [55:44]

5. Jewish Political Identity & Cognitive Dissonance

• Tension for Jewish Democrats: Liberal Jews, confronted with rising anti-Zionist and even antisemitic sentiment on the left, are described as being in denial, hesitant to see this as a broad turn against Jews, preferring to blame Netanyahu or Trump instead.

  • Quote, John: “Do you care about the continued existence of the Jewish people and their homeland and your place of refuge in case things get really hairy? Or do you care about the Green New Deal? Because that's what is now going to be facing Zionist liberals..." [65:55]

• The Pew polling dilemma: The hosts reference how many who self-identify as Jewish in surveys have little or no connection to actual Jewish belief or practice, making "Jewish opinion" a problematic concept statistically and politically. [66:00]

• Snapshots of party trends: Defeat of Squad-aligned Democrats in primaries (like Cori Bush and Jamal Bowman) is seen as meaningful but possibly short-lived evidence of party moderation. [70:30]

• Old-right antisemitism: Emergence of old right-wing antisemitism on social media (e.g., from Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens) is contrasted with antisemitic trends on the left. [72:01]

6. “Curb Your Enthusiasm”: An Ode to Social Discomfort

• Matthew Continetti heartily recommends the new coffee-table book “No Lessons Learned: The Making of Curb Your Enthusiasm,” triggering a 20-minute dissection of the show’s genius and social relevance. [74:26]
  • Quote, Matt: "No Lessons Learned draws on interviews with all the cast and crew, including Larry David himself. It is a visually sumptuous volume..." [74:26]
  • Curb’s improvisational format and exploration of social friction, awkwardness, and pettiness is praised as “Molière-level comedy.”
• Social friction as comic gold: The panel describes how Curb moments—trivial misunderstandings escalating into comic confrontations—capture human nature and now seem even more common post-Covid. [76:54, 77:12]
• Race, religion, and taboo topics: The show is lauded for tackling race, religion, and political taboos with a frankness missing in most modern comedy.
  • Quote, John: "It's also the only place over the last 25 years where you had actual comedy about race and religion, which everyone else has shied away from." [82:11]
• Favorite episodes cited include “Palestinian Chicken,” the mezuzah and dinner-party-with-holocaust-survivor episodes, and more. [85:00]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Shutdown politics:

  • Matt Continetti: "We're here because Chuck Schumer is afraid of a girl. He's afraid of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez..." [09:45]
  • John Podhoretz: "We’ve ended up with the fight over a fight rather than fighting on the issue itself." [10:35]

• On the ineffectiveness of shutdowns:

  • Abe Greenwald: "It just doesn't have the impact either way that some people seem to think it does at this point." [18:27]

• On the size of government debt:

  • John Podhoretz: "Would you like to know what the size of the federal budget deficit was in February 1979? $6 billion... It is now well over a trillion dollars." [25:46]

• On American Jews and political identity:

  • John Podhoretz: “Do you care about the continued existence of the Jewish people and their homeland and your place of refuge ... Or do you care about the Green New Deal?” [65:55]

• On Curb Your Enthusiasm’s depiction of human nature:

  • John Podhoretz: “He surfaced something about human nature and the comedy of human nature that almost no one had ever really tapped into...” [79:39]
  • Abe Greenwald: “Because it's such a popular show, millions of people clearly have these exchanges. And so it made people feel kind of weirdly better about the awkwardness.” [81:19]
  • John Podhoretz: "It's also the only place over the last 25 years where you had actual comedy about race and religion..." [82:11]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening banter/Shutdown humor: 02:12–03:55
• Shutdown mechanics & Senate votes: 03:55–10:35
• Media coverage comparison with past shutdowns: 11:37–16:12
• Diminishing political/personal impact of shutdowns: 18:27–25:13
• Historical growth of the deficit: 25:13–27:10
• Axios/Trump-Netanyahu peace plan media leak: 28:46–42:49
• Recent military/political moves in Gaza: 42:49–48:21
• Democratic polling and Israel, Jewish-American political realignment: 55:44–68:09
• Old- and new- right antisemitism: 72:01–74:26
• Book rec & “Curb Your Enthusiasm” discussion: 74:26–87:11

---

Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode is a brisk, unsentimental, and at times quite comic tour through the week’s political and cultural minefields. Discussion is alive with wordplay, candid historical reminiscence, and Jewish intellectual introspection.
Listeners will come away with a deeper understanding of shutdown politics, the complexities of intra-Jewish American debate, and a strong urge to revisit (or finally watch) “Curb Your Enthusiasm.”

---

For fans of political gossip, Jewish cultural debate, and sharp comic analysis, this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, it's John here, wanting to talk to you about our new advertiser, Avocado Green Mattress. So comfort is personal. So the question is, what means comfort to you? For me, comfort, particularly in a mattress, is more than just how it feels. It's how it makes me feel. And I want to feel cool. I want to feel supported. I wanted to feel like when I get up in the morning, my back's not going to hurt. And I want to feel like I've made a good, long term, financially sound choice in a mattress. And this is what you get from Avocado. There's world class back support. Avocado organic mattresses feature thousands of steel coils individually encased in fabric pockets that flex independently to reduce motion, transfer and support your body where it needs it most. You'll feel just as good getting into it as you do getting out of it. And there is as that indicates superior quality and craftsmanship. Low quality memory foam breaks down in a matter of years. Avocado mattresses are handcrafted from the finest natural organic ingredients for superior durability and are designed to last. And if you sleep on organic materials like wood and latex that promote air circulation and moisture wicking without retaining heat, you're getting ahead of the game. And that is what you get from Avocado. Say goodbye to night sweats. Mother Nature knows best. There are easy financing options using Affirm to make your purchase more accessible. And there is a up to one year sleep trial, generous warranties for your peace of mind. So head to avocadogreenmattress.com today and check out their mattress and bedding sale. Avocado dream of better.

[B]

Expect the worst.

[C]

Some drink champagne, some d. The way.

[A]

Of knowing which way it's going. Hope for the best. Expect the worst. Welcome to the Commentary magazine daily podcast. Today is Wednesday, October 1, 2025. I am John Podworth, the editor of Commentary magazine. With me, as always, executive editor Abe Greenwald. Hi, Abe.

[D]

Hi, John.

[A]

Senior editor Seth Mandela. Hi, Seth.

[B]

Hi, John.

[A]

And Washington Commentary columnist Matthew Continetti. Hi, Matt.

[C]

Hi, John.

[A]

So the government shut down. Matt, you're in. You. Matt and Seth, you're both in Washington. Are. You know, is it like the purge? Have people gone mad?

[B]

People are like, just lantern flies are everywhere.

[A]

And like, there's no lantern flies.

[C]

They were here before the shutdown.

[A]

Yeah, but the land. I'm sorry, the lantern flies are, I think, a symbol of the horror that is. We had a whole summer of lantern flies here in. In New York, and they don't they don't do anything bad here in New York. They can't do it.

[C]

What I like about the lanternflies or anything is I've never had permission from experts to stomp on bugs.

[A]

Yes. Before. Yes. You're supposed to stop 44 years.

[C]

Yeah. And finally the experts say I can stomp on bugs.

[B]

So not just permission, but the urging.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

Very, very important stomp.

[A]

It's very important to stomp on a lantern fly in the way that the Trump administration is going to stomp on federal jobs. Now.

[C]

We'Ll see.

[A]

We'll see. Okay, Matt, maybe we could take a second just to offer some kind of an explanation as to what happened, which is to say that the. If I understand this correctly, the Trump administration and the Republicans in Congress offered up what is called a clean CR and the Democrats rejected it. So can you explain?

[C]

Not all the Democrats.

[A]

No, that's right, Howie. Three voted. Three in the Senate.

[C]

So this is the second vote they held on a bill that would fund the government until the end of November to give space for side negotiations over Affordable Care act subsidies. And the first time they held the vote, last week, one Democrat joined the Republicans. That was Senator John Fetterman. They held another vote yesterday in advance of the shutdown, and two Democrats joined Fetterman. So three Democrats voted with the Republicans for a total of 56 votes to keep the government open. The three Democrats were Federman again, Cortez Mastro, the senator from Nevada, and Angus King, the independent who caucuses with the Democrats from Maine. To have that number, I guess it was 55 maybe, right? Yeah. To have 55 before the shutdown even happens does not bode well for the Democrats.

[A]

But just to explain, because this is stuff that people, many people listening to podcasts would know, but maybe others don't, to bring an end to the unlimited debate rule in the Senate, in which a bill can be debated forever until a procedural move is made called cloture, and then the bill can be taken to be. The bill itself can be taken to vote it on. Cloture closes debate, and then you can go on to the voting on the floor of the Senate, and that takes 60 votes. It's a 3/5. Cloture is a three fifths. That is the thing when you hear about ending the filibuster or, you know, changing the rules so that all, all things pass in the Senate by a simple majority, that. That is intended to end cloture. Cloture provides power to the minority that does not really exist in almost no other Democratic or Republican country or Republic. It's a fascinating element of American politics. And here we have a cloture vote that as you say, is way closer on the fir on the first in the emergency go round than anybody I think probably would have anticipated. You just would have assumed all the Republicans would vote for the clean CR and all the Democrats would vote against and then we would be in one of these standoffs. But can we explain what a clean CR is?

[C]

Well, a clean CR is what I think is kind of silly jargon to just describe bill that would keep the government running at current spending levels. Spending levels, by the way, which were agreed to six months ago when we had another cliff. That way we fund our government is through a series of cliffs to in order to force action. There's no, you know, kind of steady routine budget cycle that we go through because what else would we do if we didn't have these ongoing cliffs and debates and occasional shutdowns? So clean CR just keeps the government open at the current level. And the Democrats don't want that because Chuck Schumer has decided to demand a price to be paid by Republicans in exchange for the votes to clear the 60 vote threshold. And those demands at the moment include the continuation of Affordable Care act subsidies that the Democratic Congress passed in 2021 and that are scheduled to be phased out at the end of this year, saving hundreds of billions of dollars, by the way, in the 10 year budget window at a time when we have $36 trillion plus of debt. Nonetheless, the Democrats want that spending to keep on going and they've also demanded that the administration reverse its pocket recession. Don't ask me what that is, it's too early in the morning. But it was a spending cut that the Trump administration used at the end of the summer to basically zero out USAID and all of its woke programming and a few other things. And the Democrats want the Republicans to reverse some of the changes to Medicaid that they made in the one big beautiful bill, or as we're calling it now, the working Families tax cut back in July. These are ridiculous demands. The Democrats are the minority party. The only leverage they have here is the filibuster, which, oh, I don't know, don't Democrats always complain about and want to abolish. It's funny how all of a sudden they've discovered their love of the filibuster here in the spending debate. And to say that the price of five additional votes is abandoning the Republican health care agenda that majorities passed into law is in my view, totally absurd. So why are we here? We're here because Chuck Schumer is afraid of a girl. He's afraid of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, who, after Schumer agreed to keep the government open earlier this year, started climbing and beating him in polls in a 2028 Democratic primary. So Chuck Schumer and other Democrats who are in the grip of Trump derangement need to show fighting spirit, and that's why he's made these demands, and that's why the government is shut down.

[A]

So politically, I see no reason why Democrats should not indulge in their desire to fight the Trump administration and to fight the Republicans. None whatsoever. This is what politics is about. Politics is about expressing your disagreements in the fora that we set up for the purpose of expressing disagreements and trying to pass legislation that reflects those disagreements. But we, we have ended up, as you were sort of in your, in your monologue about this, as you sort of lay out, we've ended up with the fight over a fight rather than fighting on the issue itself. Meaning if you want to change Obamacare the way you change Obamacare or reaffirm Obamacare or do something of that sort, when I was a lad, would be to write a piece of legislation on Obamacare or.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. But you know who didn't do that? Ted Cruz. And The Republicans in 2013 who shut down the government because they wanted to have a fight over health care. This is the mirror image of that fight. And let me tell you something. I don't see a similar symmetry in the media coverage of the two shutdowns, do you? I don't. I see this shutdown being covered very differently, as this is the. Can you, you know, the media tells us voters may blame Republicans to. Republicans, after all, are in charge of the government. Well, that's odd, because Democrats were in charge of two branches of the government in 2013. And yet it was all the Republicans fault then, just as I think parts of the media are portraying it now to a ridiculous extent.

[A]

Mark. Mark Penn, who an interesting ideologically, sort of like a neo. A neo Kanavala Letra.

[C]

He's on a journey.

[A]

He's on a journey. Or the journey. Or he's. Or the journey is.

[C]

He's arrived.

[A]

Yeah, but Mark Penn was Bill Clinton's pollster. I guess he was his pollster. And a political advisor. Mark Pence said, Look, in 1995, when the first major government shutdown happened, I said to Clinton, you let, you let the, you let the Republicans have their head this is going to be immensely politically helpful to us because we're the, we, we're the government. We want to keep the government open. There is this kind of backdoor effort to shut the government down by the minority in on Capitol Hill and the public will be with us. And Pence said last night there is absolutely the same dynamic now. Trump wants to keep the government open, Democrats want to shut the government down. Which is why it's a perverse fight for the Democrats to be having because of course Trump does want to shut a lot of the government. And if Democrats knew how to make this argument better, they could make it without shutting the government down. They, they could make it over usaid and as they've been trying over the, you know, last, over the summer, which I think has not been unsuccessful for them, saying what you're doing with HHS is irresponsible. You're doing with NIH is irresponsible. You're cutting out our research. Christine mentioned yesterday efforts to sort of shut down parts of the Pentagon that have, that have screwed up the institutional memory on war fighting matters. And the same thing has been going on in the intelligence communities. And you can make a fight about that and an argument about that saying that the Trump administration has used and was succeeding given the way Elon Musk was came to be viewed after a while as the head of Doge. And instead you're going to shove saying they're the ones who are bad on government and screwing up our government and now they're taking a piece of the we're irresponsible about government because we want to shut down the government argument, muddying the argument that Trump has been bad for the good working order of the federal government because of how indiscriminate he's been in the way that they have pursued budget cuts and using it to take revenge against the deep state and all of that. Does that jibe with your guys sense of this? I mean I don't want to over maybe all these things are always just media arguments. You know, my sense is that it's.

[C]

Silly and it may last a while. We don't, I am inclined to think it won't simply because you already have some movement among Democrats toward keeping the government open. But I think that the much of the media is frozen in 1995 now. Most of the media talking and covering.

[A]

35, 1995 and 1935. Yeah, right.

[C]

Well, 1995, most of the people talking about the shutdown weren't covering the shutdown or even know all that much about it, the budget fight in 1995. But they have learned through the osmosis from the culture smog that shutdowns hurt Republicans because that shutdown was said to have arrested the progress of the Republican revolution. And of course, Bill Clinton won his reelection over Bob Dole the very next year. Now, I don't need to tell you any of this, John. The Weekly Standard had just started when the shutdown happened in 1995, but nonetheless, that's the view that I think many people hold. And so whenever we shut down the government, which we do fairly often these days, because we are so closely divided and because political elites are so polarized, the media rushes to say, oh, Republicans, Republicans are going to bear the brunt of this. Even if that shows up short term in polls. It has no real effect that the party hurt by shutdowns is the Democratic Party. And the reason is the Democrats are the party of government. All of the government programs that the media is saying may be affected by this. By the way, no essential program will be affected by the shutdown. But so that means all of the liberal programs will be affected by the. By the shutdown. Those are Democratic programs. They're funded by Democratic votes. They support Democratic constituencies, the government employees who will be furloughed. By the way, people will get their paychecks back, assuming they're not fired altogether by the Trump administration during this period. They are overwhelmingly not all, they are overwhelmingly Democratic voters. Republicans enter these debates, especially when they're in a position of having some stake in the game, where they want to keep the government open with this posture of like, okay, sure, why not? You do it, eventually it's going to come back and hurt you. The Democratic Party, I think, in a.

[D]

General sense, at this point, the voters, the country, have been through so many bigger fights, so many more spectacular crises or seeming crises, and that this has now happened with a kind of regularity, such that it just doesn't have the impact either way that some people seem to think it does at this point. In an earlier age, it would have a stronger effect on public opinion. Think now it's almost quaint as compared to the other kinds of fights that we see unfolding.

[A]

Hi, it's John here wanting to talk to you about our new advertiser, Avocado Green Mattress. So comfort is personal. So the question is, what means comfort to you? For me, comfort, particularly in a mattress, is more than just how it feels. It's how it makes me feel. And I want to feel cool. I want to feel supported. I wanted to feel like when I get up in the morning my back's not going to hurt and I want to feel like I've made a good, long term, financially sound choice in a mattress. And this is what you get from Avocado. There's world class back support. Avocado organic mattresses feature thousands of steel coils individually encased in fabric pockets that flex independently to reduce motion, transfer and support your body where it needs it most. You'll feel just as good getting into it as you do getting out of it. And there is as that indicates superior quality and craftsmanship. Low quality memory foam breaks down in a matter of years. Avocado mattresses are handcrafted from the finest natural organic ingredients for superior durability and are designed to last. And if you sleep on organic materials like wood and latex that promote air circulation and moisture wicking without retaining heat, you're getting ahead of the game. And that is what you get from from Avocado Say goodbye to night sweats. Mother Nature knows best. There are easy financing options using Affirm to make your purchase more accessible and there is a up to one year sleep trial and generous warranties for your peace of mind. So head to avocadogreenmattress.com today and check out their mattress and bedding sale. Avocado Dream of Better okay guys, I'm excited because it is fall and it is time for me to talk again about my favorite clothing. Quints Sweaters. Quint says the kind of fall staples you'll actually want to wear on repeat. Like 100% Mongolian cashmere from just 60 bucks. Classic fit denim and real leather and wool outerwear that looks sharp and holds up. You know I wear a lot of quince sweaters. If you watch us on YouTube, you're going to see quince sweaters all winter. But I got my eye on their suede trucker jacket. It's perfect for layering and just looks really casual. But put together by partnering directly with ethical factories and top artisans, Quince cuts out the middlemen to deliver premium quality at half the cost of similar brands. So layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look. Go to quint.com commentary for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com Commentary Free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com Commentary I think you make an interesting rhetorical, propagandistic point in this sense. In 1995 when we had just started the Weekly Standard, and Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole shut down the government. One of the great talking points talk about, like, nostalgia for days gone by was they're closing the national parks. Can you imagine Americans who just want to go hiking or camping or see the glories of Old Faithful and Zion and Big Bend National Park? The gates are shut. What are we doing here? How have we gotten to this point? And then in 2020 and 2021, the government shut down the United States of America, state by state and federally. So talk about quaint. People were getting arrested, being on a beach, going to church. And now you're going to say, this is really terrible, because you're. If you drive up to Yosemite, you know, they're going to say, there are no there. You know, can't come in. I don't even know who's gonna say, can't come in. Since no one's working there. They just have a gate. They just park at the entrance and walk in or something. I don't know. It's like a weird. The point is, no one's even gonna.

[B]

Take your picnic basket.

[A]

No, they're still there. Yogi and Boo Boo are still there. It's just Ranger Rick who has, like, been furloughed. I mean, but I'm just saying that the quaintness is. The federal government did something so insanely intrusive. That's a. Federal and state governments interfered with our lives in so such an insanely intrusive manner that the idea that the government isn't going to work for a while does seem like child's play. I mean, but even.

[C]

Especially when it is going to work, right? If you get a Social Security check, unlike in 1995, when that was a up in the air, you're going to get your Social Security check. The post office is going to continue to deliver mail. I'm great.

[A]

I'm really thrilled about. I need my.

[C]

I know we all depend on my seven, but there are a lot of.

[A]

Postal workers in my mailbox.

[C]

Right. Well, Smokey the Bear, when he's in the national park, he can still rely on his. His outdoor. His outside magazine description. Arriving on time. Or as magazines always do, they arrive three weeks late.

[A]

Yeah, but it is like these budget questions. It's like, if you go back now, I'm really going to date myself. You go back to 1979. I was once going to write a book about 1979 and the fiscal and American budgetary crises that Jimmy Carter sort of walked into that helped lead to Ronald Reagan's election in 1980. And one of them was the deficit. It was terrible. The federal deficit. Oh, my God, what a horror show. What are we going to do about it? It's terrible. Would you like to know what the size of the federal budget deficit was in February 1979? $6 billion.

[C]

Say a few billion.

[A]

Was $6 billion. It is now well over a trillion dollars. The Fed. The deficit, which is just the. That is just the sort of interest payments on the debt, which, as you say, is like whatever is 36 trillion total.

[C]

That's 36 trillion total, right, right.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Interest on the debt is about 700 billion plus, I think.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

The deficit is what, you know, the gap between receipts and revenues. That's over $1 trillion.

[A]

Right. Okay, so it's $1 trillion, $6 billion in America in 1979, the federal deficit was one of the three or four leading issues. If you asked people and what did they say? They said, I have to balance my checkbook. The government should have to balance its checkbook. It was seemed very axiomatic. So as Abe, as you say, like the size of the government and the size of the problems that we face and all of that, that this is the narish kite that the political system has come down to is Chuck Schumer needs to show AOC's voters that he can fight. And so we're gonna shut the government down. And Trump's like, oh, don't throw me in that briar patch. I don't want to shut the government down. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

[C]

Now, the last big government shutdown we had was in 2019. I believe that was over. DACA and the Democrats demanding Trump do something about the Dreamers in order to fund the government. That shutdown lasted a long time. It lasted 35 days. And it eventually came to an end because, you know, federal workers, they can go one pay period knowing that they're going to be made whole. Their, their household finances won't be that affected to pay periods. You're starting okay, you know, I hope you have some savings. You know, it will be tough when you get into the third pay period. Then you really start getting pressure to open up the government so that you people can, you know, pay their mortgages. Right? Their mortgages and their credit card bills at the same time. Once you got into the 30 day mark, some TSA agents were like, enough with this, I'm out of here. And they would call in sick. So that led to the beginnings of travel delays. So when you get to that point now, that is when pressure starts to build. But we're nowhere close to that. And because I think we live in a very different political environment, not much, not even mentioning 1995 now, but even we live in a different political environment than 2019, when the last, last long shutdown was. I don't think we're going to get there. I could be wrong, but I don't think this is going to be as devastating as the media are hyping it up to be.

[A]

All right, let's move on to a very mysterious tweet by court stenographer, but I'm not sure what court. Barack Ravid of Axios.

[C]

The Court of Axios.

[A]

Yes. Well, I mean, Barack Ravid was, is an Israeli journalist who got, you know, who like, got his dream job at Axios as a Washington correspondent focusing on, on the Middle east or on Israel, really. And of course, I've now mentioned this and I just closed the window that had the tweet. But it came up this morning and it's kind of stunning because it shows just how crazy the conversation has gotten over the Trump peace plan. According to a Barack Ravid. Maybe I won't even hear this scoop. On Saturday, the White House was concerned Netanyahu is going to reject the plan for ending the war in Gaza. Trump then held a tough call with Netanyahu and told him, if we leave it, we walk away from you, Mark Caputo and me. Right, For Axios. Okay, so I'm bringing this up because now we're gonna have a whole conversation on the right about whether or not Trump had to, you know, like, had to deliver the, you know, pushed, you know, put the screws to Netanyahu on the, on, on this plan. I'm not saying that somebody didn't tell Barack Ravid this. I'm not saying that Barack Ravid is a fool to have believed it. Maybe he doesn't believe it. He just reported because somebody told him. Okay. I'm saying Barack Ravid is a fool.

[B]

You decide.

[A]

I'm, I'm going to say that this is of all the scoops of all the Middle Eastern behind the scenes issues that has ever come down the pike. This is the dumbest and the most preposterous that I have ever seen. But it's also Trump peace plan is a dream come true for Bibi. And the idea that he, Trump, would have to yell at him to get him to agree is so meshuggah that you have to wonder whose interest is being served by the Leak. And why Barack Ravid. In the tradition of many, by the way, many reporters who get people who call them and tell them things and then they go, yeah, come on, what, are you kidding me? And then don't report the fake news that they're being proffered. That's what reporting used to be about, in part was you knew enough to know not to be handed a bill of goods that you were then going to throw into the public discussion. But of course, now if you're on the other end of the phone call and there's Twitter there, or he wrote it for Axios, he didn't just put it up on Twitter. But, you know, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a big thing. There was a reporter in the early Obama years named Mark Ambinder who has since left the reporting game that our friend Mickey Kaust used to call the dreidel, because you could just, he was a White House correspondent. You could just tell him, you know, spin anything anyway, and Ambinder would just, you know, like, just take the dictation. And Barack Ravid is now the dreidel of the Mideast reporting in the United States.

[D]

Bibi is so hated. Trump is so hated. The BB Trump partnership is so hated. Any story this has come up again and again, any supposed tale of Trump having a problem with Bibi is catnip. I mean, we heard this in the run up to the Iranian, to Israel's operations in Iran in the aftermath of the bombing. Every step of the way, this is the only thing that they, you know, they can get a little hint of some story about Trump. Bibi's gone too far this time, then, then they run with it.

[A]

I just love, I just love it.

[B]

Can I just mention, by the way, since, since he's here, we should note that Matt had a term for this and I just found the old piece 12 years ago, secretarial journalism. Matt got the term up and cooking with. Was it Steve Clemens? Yeah, on a trip.

[A]

Yes. An early dreidel. One at one of the Dre. Another Obama administration dreidel.

[B]

The rise of secretarial journalism in the Washington Free Beacon is. Thank you, Mats. But, but, yeah, I mean, look, I think the, the thing here is that people are, are so desperate for scoops that they're also oversensitive to every human interaction. Like, even if that stuff happens, happens, it doesn't matter. Like when world leaders get together and hash out a plan to end their country's long one of the country's Longest wars and deal with a population of 2 million and all this other stuff. Sometimes I'm sure people are tired and yell at each other. Dennis Ross threw a notebook across the room when he was frustrated with Yasser Arafat at one point. That's not a.

[A]

Which is amazing. Which is amazing because that was the first time that Dennis Ross had a pulse in the last 40 years. But, yeah, fair enough.

[B]

You know, and, you know, he stood up from a table and, you know, did the storming out thing. And what people, look, adult people argue this. That's. That's what these things are. I think that there's a real, like, sort of hypersensitivity to that and also a desire to. There's a real desire to cling to the idea among some people. And it's pretty popular on the sort of woke. Right. These days. Also to cling to the idea that Bibi is playing Trump, that Bibi is sort of in control and he's fooling us. And whatever happens is because of the machinations of Bibi Netanyahu. And therefore, when Trump comes up with a plan that is good for Trump didn't come out to find. No, but you have.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Trump didn't come up with this plan. I wrote this plan. You wrote this plan. Durham wrote this plan. There is complete harmonization.

[C]

Well, Jared.

[A]

Right. Jared wrote the plan. Right.

[C]

And Tony Blair, the plan.

[A]

Under Jared's tutelage. Jared was on the phone with Dermer. This is the Israeli plan. This is the. This is. There is nothing in this plan that Bibi doesn't want.

[C]

But I think that Seth hit on something very important, which is that some of Barack Ravid's sources in the White House are not friends of Israel.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And want to play up any distance between the president and Netanyahu, even if it means making stuff up. Which, if you recall, we've. During the 12 day war, Ravid was publishing stories about how Trump was furious with Bibi. So angry with Bibi. Oh, yeah, that's right. Trump was so angry with Bibi that he launched Operation Midnight Hammer and destroyed Iran's nuclear capabilities.

[A]

Right. I mean, look, Trump, you just have to. Trump. Trump does ugly stuff, Weird, ugly stuff. Even jokingly in meetings. Right. He had this meeting the other day with Albert Bourla, the CEO of Pfizer, who had agreed to lower drug prices on stuff for Medicare and Medicaid. And Trump is reading off a card on drug expenses. Guy is standing there with the gold plate, you know, with the gold cups and the gold coins and the gold Burnishings in the Oval Office. And Trump's reading off, you know, how drug prices have gone up, how much we pay for drugs or something. And he turns to Bourla and he says, did you, Albert? Did you really do this? This is vile. It's vile. At a meeting where Bourla had come to say, I'm lowering drug prices like you asked me, Mr. President. And then he attacks him in front of the cameras and says he's vile. Trump will do or say anything.

[C]

How about Trump putting the Trump 28 hats on the Resolute desk when Schumer and Jeffries were in the room?

[A]

Or the Mexican or the, or the AI with the sombrero. With the sombrero. I mean, I'm just saying that, yeah, like maybe Trump had a call with Bibi in which he said something like, your son is nuts or, you know, whatever. Like anything can come out of Trump's mouth, including with his closest friends and deepest, you know, that would just like be the sort of thing where you would say, oh, f you, I'll never speak to you again. So who knows? Yes, maybe there was a phone call in which there was some kind of little heated exchange over something. But the, I mean, for Barack Ravid not to know that the Trump plan is like manna from heaven for Bibi that achieves every single one of his political strategic, long term military is help tactical goals is beyond belief that he.

[C]

Because the way that the media have reported on the conflict now for over a year.

[A]

Two years.

[C]

Over two years.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, it's two years.

[A]

Two years.

[C]

But there's been a shift in the coverage certainly since 2024, where the media portrays the conflict as being between Israel and international public opinion trying to stop Israel in the war. They don't talk about, oh, I don't know, Hamas. They never do. Hamas has always been the obstacle to peace here. And indeed Hamas is the obstacle to this deal, which is the best deal anyone is going to get because it does allow Hamas to fade into the background in the, into the population. And it does mean that Israeli troops will vacate certain parts of Gaza Strip once the demilitarization is certified or guaranteed. But it also releases the hostages on day one. Right. And it brings the war to an end. It's a good deal. But Hamas has not accepted it. And still instead of focus on Hamas not accepting it and what pressure needs to be applied additionally onto Qatar, which seems to have been instrumental also in getting us to this place because it didn't quite like Israel bombing its base where they are sheltering the Hamas leaders and allowing them to gather and plot. We're still focused on the Bibi Trump relationship.

[A]

It's well put. Abe, you said when we talked about the deal the other day that you said Hamas would not, would not accept it. Hamas is not turn it down. We don't know who Hamas is. Trump said they have three days or four days or something like that, which may have been too long to give them, but whatever. So the now I guess the question is what happens on Friday, which will be like four days. Will Trump say, okay, is Trump so enamored of the deal that he will let Hamas string him along longer or is he going to, you know, sort of like say best and final offer by midnight or. I'm not quite sure what more Israel can do militarily than it is doing right now, unless it has a, unless it has something up its sleeve as it has had at every phase of this war. Right. It had the secret weapon that it used against Iran that nobody knew that it had, that. We still don't, we don't even know what it was. That was, that was well before the attack on the nuclear facilities. That was last fall. It had the beepers, right. And it had the apartment in, you know, the assassination apartment in Toronto.

[B]

They had a drone factory in Iran, right?

[A]

Yeah, they were factory in Iran. So maybe they have one more holy shit thing that they can do. I don't really know what that is. When he says, I'll let BB have his head and do whatever he needs to do do to win the war, they seem to be doing that with almost no resistance, by the way. I mean, that's the interesting thing is the great worry about the decision to go in full bore into Gaza City, you know, with, you know, conventional, but with conventional military tactics, I guess is like two weeks old. And you know, we're not hearing about, we're not hearing about Israeli casualties. We're not hearing about, you know, these four guys were killed. They seem to be facing very little resistance.

[B]

And we also saw that the number now is up to something like a confirmed 800,000 who have been evacuated. Gazans who have been evacuated from Gaza.

[A]

City, which is about 4/5 of the population of Gaza City.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

You know, again, it's like I'm reminded of only once Operation Midnight Hammer happened, you could sort of look back and see this coordination and these feints taking place between the US And Israel in the run up to taking out the nuclear facilities. And I'm now seeing sort of, you know, in Bibi's having broadcast his UN speech into the phones and loudspeakers of Gaza. And then days later, you know, and the UN speech saying lay down your weapons and that's your choice, so on. And then you have the Trump meeting in the White House days later, you see this whole coordination come together. Adam Bowler, who's the Trump's special envoy for hostage negotiations or something, said soon after the, the announcement of the White House, the Oval Office announcement of this peace deal that the Trump administration would not, was not going to field negotiations or counter offers from Hamas. I assuming I'll go with that. He is in fact speaking in one voice for the administration on that point. I don't think Trump is going to string, is going to let Hamas string him along this time. I think this is another heavily coordinated, all in decision moment. I don't think this is a, let's see what Putin says. I think we're back in a sort of kind of prediction, pre Iran strike mode in the administration.

[B]

It's kind of the mirror image of Rafah in a way, right? It's like during the Biden administration it was don't go into Rafah, there's nowhere else to go. I talked to Kamala, she studied the maps. She's studying the maps right now. She won't put the maps down. There's nowhere for anybody to go. You can't go in there, blah, blah, blah. And Israel said, well, listen, there's important tunnels and there's hostages, almost certainly hostages. And Israel waited and waited. And then they evacuated a million people, just about a million people from the Rafah area and went in. And there were of course tunnels and there were of course hostages. They were actually, you know, very close to the hostages and to Sinwar. And it was not that long after that that they got Sinwar himself. I mean, that was sort of on the path, right? And they had found his DNA in some of the tunnels. So you had this like the whole world saying, don't go into this important area because it'll be a disaster, you'll kill all the civilians and you won't achieve any military objectives. And it turned out that Israel was right about Rafah, that hostages were there, Sinwar was there, smuggling tunnels were there to Egypt that were bringing in weapons. You know, every part of the war that you had to address had to go through Rafah. And this time you have a kind of mirror image of it in the other way, which is Trump never saying don't go into Gaza City, never. You know, the rest of the world is saying exactly the same thing that they said in Rafah. We're going to sanction you, we're going to sanction ministers, we're going to sanction violent settlers. We're going to do all sorts of stuff to stop you from going into Gaza City. And they said the same things and did the same things with Rafah. And the big difference is that the superpower, the United States, is standing here saying, if there are Hamas in Gaza City, you got to go get them. If Hamas is not going to lay down its arms, it's not going to happen through wishful thinking, you know, whatever. And this has made a tremendous difference in the thinking of the Qataris and the Turks. Also, Turkey has warmed to the idea of plans like this in ways they absolutely never would have even approached under Biden when they had the US Standing with the rest of the world saying, don't you dare. And Doug Limu and I always tell you to customize your car insurance and.

[A]

Save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

[C]

But now we want you to feel it.

[B]

Cue the emu music. Limu, Save yourself money today.

[A]

Increase your your wealth. Customize and save.

[C]

We say that may have been too much feeling.

[D]

Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com.

[A]

Liberty Liberty, Liberty, Liberty Savings.

[D]

Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company.

[A]

And affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[B]

I'm Oliver Darcy. And I'm John Passantino.

[C]

We have spent years covering the inner workings of the news media, tech, politics, Hollywood and power.

[B]

Now through our nightly newsletter status.

[A]

And we're bringing that same reporting and sharp analysis to a new podcast, Powerlines.

[B]

Every Friday, we're breaking down the biggest stories shaping the industry, explaining why they matter and saying the things most people.

[C]

Are thinking but too timid to say out loud.

[B]

No spin, no fluff, just sharp analysis.

[A]

That isn't afraid to call it like it is. We also pull back the curtain via.

[B]

Our exclusive reporting to take you behind the scenes. My understanding having reported this is that the Pentagon protested to CNN and tried to effectively exile the CNN producer. And when the moment calls for it, we've got some hot takes. I just think Brad Pitt, honestly, he kind of seems a little washed up.

[A]

Oh, my God. That's power lines. Presented by Status.

[B]

Follow power lines and listen on Apple.

[A]

Spotify, Amazon music, or your favorite podcast. Kamala Harris's book 107 Days came out last week and features her dividing herself from the Biden team's unwillingness to, I don't know, deliver some kind of a hammer blow to Israeli ambitions to succeed in the war. Simon and Schuster announced yesterday or the day before that the book has sold 350,000 copies in its first week, which I think came as a huge surprise to them and to everybody that it wasn't a bomb. Given the nature of the revelations that we've seen, which aren't really all that helpful to her, it would seem. I'm delighted by this news. I would like her to run in 2028. I want to see her run for president in 2028 for the spectacle, for the fact that we will have to re litigate. It will force in Democratic debates the relitigation of the Biden administration, which can both on the one hand expose could force Democrats to reckon with having covered up for Biden's infirmities and though I do not wish that this were the case with the Democratic Party, but it is that it's irresponsible, reckless and horrible change in heart about Israel and anti Semitism and stuff like that is very much accepted, exposed into, comes into broad daylight in the debates that will be had. It's going to happen anyway because it's such an important issue, even though it's three years or two and a half years from now that I'm talking about here. But, but I think this is actually a welcome political development because otherwise Kamala's role in covering up the fact that Biden couldn't actually serve as president will be memory hold. And the Democrats would desperately like 2028 to not to evade the questions that they refuse to address. And if she runs, others are going to go at her jugular because they know that Democrats feel the same way. Many Democrats feel the same way about Biden. Now that Republicans felt, or we'll say, oh, you know, if we'd only known if you, if you guys had only done what you needed to do in 2023, we could have beaten Trump in 24 and things would be better. So it's kind of your fault and raises the prospect of a kind of Trumpish run from the left in which the person who wins the Democratic nomination in 2020 is the person who says you stink. All you establishment Democrats, all of you guys who covered up for Biden and let Trump win and, and sort of, you know, you all, you all stink. We need new leadership because you're incompetent and terrible and you mishandled Covid and you mishandled the Trump threat and you mishandled Biden's infirmities. Anybody? Anybody with me?

[C]

Well, I think just for the comedic Value alone.

[A]

Well, that too.

[C]

I wanted to see her run in 2028. And I think your point about the outsider insurgency is very true. My former colleague Katherine Miller, who's on the New York Times, now posted some polling yesterday showing just how dismally Democrats view their leadership in Congress. And the parallel she was making was with Republicans in 2013 during that shutdown. I mentioned earlier in the program, and you got the sense then that, yeah, the base wanted a fight, the leadership wasn't doing it. We got the Ted Cruz, Mike Lee health care shutdown. That wasn't quite enough. And what happens the next, next year in 2014 is when Dave Brat came out of nowhere to unseat Eric Cantor, the House majority leader paragon of the Republican establishment. And then one year after that, Trump came down the escalator and took over the Republican Party. So Katherine Miller suggested, and I think she's right, that the Democrats could be entering a similar moment with this shutdown. No matter how it ends, and it will end, there will be plenty of Democratic base voters who feel as though Chuck Schumer didn't do enough because what they want, they, I mean, they want out and out combat with conservatives and with, and with the Trump administration.

[A]

Also worth pointing out in 2014 that though I, this, the map does not make this conceivable from what I can see. But Republicans won nine and they won nine Senate seats.

[C]

Took over the Senate. They had had the house since 2010.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So again, this, again, the shutdowns don't matter.

[A]

Yeah. Not only do they not matter, I mean, there's also the question of whether or not Cruz was right in the long run, though, it didn't help him. And McConnell was wrong. McConnell let Cruz shut down the government in 2013. I mean, the idea was, all right, all right, crazy guy, fine, I can't stand you. I don't know what the hell to do with you. I'm going to let you have your head. You do whatever you want, want, and then let's see, let the chips fall where they may. And a, it handed them a Republican majority. I mean, it didn't hand them a Republican majority. Republicans won. So.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

It's like, it's also there were extenuating circumstances. Like, there were details. Like the reason that it was looked on as so bad for Republicans is because it intersected with the disastrous launch of the, the Obamacare website. And a lot of Republicans were saying we should, we could be talking, you know, the whole country could be making fun of obamacare.com or whatever.gov. And instead we're talking about the shutdown. You interrupted your enemy when he was making a mistake.

[A]

And that's, that's a very good, that's.

[B]

A very good point.

[A]

But the other way of looking at it is that where Cruz was right and McConnell was wrong was that the Republican drive for change in Washington, which Cruz was responding to, even though it was an incompetent shutdown, and he got nothing, got absolutely nothing from what he wanted because he was also making an impossible ask, which was for Obama to agree to end Obamacare, which was bananas. And, you know, he had a whole theory of how it would work and it was nuts. But it meant that the Republican base was remained energized or was re. Energized in a fallow moment, which is like the year before a midterm. And the Republicans were energized going into the midterm. And Democrats were depressed and there was Democratic turnout fell off a cliff. The, the, I think it was 32% of eligible voters voted in the 2014 midterms because Democrats didn't turn out to vote. And Republicans sailed into all these seats. And maybe, you know, maybe Schumer is right, maybe they're right. Maybe this will help keep the Democratic hatred of Trump alive and going and chugging along and give them some, you know, heft in their efforts next year. They don't have the map that Republicans had in 2014. But one last point, because you mentioned the polling and Democrats and so for that Democratic polling, there's also Democratic polling this, this week about Democratic attitudes toward Israel that is horrifying beyond belief. If you're people like us, something like 75% of Democrats say they now support the Palestinians over the, over Israel. We talked about this yesterday, that it's a false question because what it means to support the Palestinians is a very vague. There is no. What does it mean they like Palestinians more than, than Israelis or they feel sorrier for Palestinians more than Israelis? Okay. That, that I sort of, that I could. I don't know what it means to support the Palestinians. If you said the question had been asked about supporting Hamas or you're not supporting the Palestinian Authority, which I assume most Americans don't really know what that is. So I don't know how you would pose that question and get any kind of, you know.

[D]

Yeah, but the problem is it's kind of a false question. It's a false question. Not in the way they realize it's a false question because.

[A]

A lot of.

[D]

Gazans came through the fence on October 7th and did a lot of killing and mauling and a whole lot of Gazans have kept Israeli hostages in their homes and so on. So I don't know how false it is. I think it's. The left collapses Hamas and Palestine in one sense. And I think there is a realistic way of also looking at Palestinians and Hamas as being. I don't know. I don't know what the right word is. Deeply intertwined.

[A]

Yes. Oh, I'm not saying it's good at.

[B]

That point, by the way, that Israel is in this deal. This deal has Israel returning 1700 Gazans who have been arrested. The reason that category is a separate category from terrorists who've been arrested or Hamas members is because there were, you know, a couple thousand Gazans who streamed across the border to take part and in what was going, in what Hamas had started, and the fact that Israel has 1700 of them still in custody, these were, these were Gazans who, by.

[A]

The way, including what are called children in the deal, meaning, I assume, teenagers or, you know, people under the age of 18. So they were on the raping and murdering spree. Now, I assume, by the way, that they ran in and they, they have not been tagged with actual specific crimes. I don't really know that. I mean, I assume if you knew that X guy murdered X, you know, Israeli, that that person would be brought to justice. I mean, Israel also killed hundreds, if not thousands of the Gazans who came over the fence in the three days that it took them to pacify the Gaza envelope. But that is a, that is a, a very good point. I'm not. By saying you ask Americans whether they sympathize with Israel, the Palestinians, you're asking a question that has no specific valence in terms of policy, but it does reflect an emotional shift, an attitude.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, emotional attitude.

[A]

You know, Seth has written the COVID story in the October issue of Commentary, which is called, you know, David, David is Goliath. And that's a good thing. Making the case that the point about Israel is that Israel is David and Goliath, meaning Goliath loses and David wins. And David. So when you say David has become Goliath, if you use that analogy, the issue with David is that he figured out how to take over a land and become its leader and establish a dynasty that ruled for hundreds of years or establish a kind of the Jewish state as we, the first Jewish state was established by David and unifying the tribes and leading to a. Leading to a single Jewish polity. And that is not the struggling little cutesy country, you know, that looks like the, you know, cutesy Yiddish speaking people who are on radio and television in the 1940s and 1950s, you know, but the Sabra, obnoxious, overly self confident, you know, arrogant, unbelievably sort of purposeful, accomplished and able to do things that nobody ever expected or anticipated they would be able to do. Building a world class military among a people that had been stateless and powerless for two millennia in a generation and all of that, the, the, the story is different and so now the, you know, the, the, the poor suffering people, you know, terrified under a blanket are the, are the Palestinians. I think we have to embrace the fact that this is who the Democrats have become. First of all, there's no sense in not embracing the fact is the wrong way to put it. But we have to be clear eyed about this is what they've become and that the idea of kind of flipping them back to being more balanced in their views here is a fool's errand. This has been a major story for two years. There's never been a war like this in the Middle East. Israel hasn't had to fight a war for two years. This is going to be a fixed moment in people's understanding of how the world works. And, and so Americans, Zionists and anti will have to sort of reckon, deal with the fact that this is how the political balance in the United States is. And a lot of people are going to have to make choices. And let me just put the choice this way. Do you care about the continued existence of the Jewish people and their homeland and your homeland and your place of refuge in case things get really hairy and all of that? Or do you care about the Green New Deal? Because if you're, you know, that's, that's what is now going to be facing Zionist liberals who are going to deal with the cognitive dissonance of being part of a movement that now hates Jews. And I say that unreservedly, does not like Jews and whose leading edge and vanguard openly dislikes the Jewish state and believes the Jews have too much power in the United States and need to be slapped down and need to have their speech interfered with and their right to assembly affected and protested and all of that?

[C]

Sadly, we know what choice many Democrats will opt for.

[A]

Well, you know, it is an interesting moment because a lot of Democrats, a lot of people, it's all anecdotal, but a lot of people that I know and this is the great division in Jewish opinion which is there is Jewish opinion in the United States. And it all comes from self identified Jews. So you have to ask somebody, are they Jewish? Do they consider themselves Jewish? And then what does that mean to them? And as we know from the Pew poll, which is the most sophisticated effort to poll Jewish public opinion over the course of the last 20 years, you can get people in the poll who say they're Jewish and 30% of them will say they also believe in the divinity of Christ. So just to put it simply, you can't be Jewish and believe in the divinity of Christ. So these people say they're Jewish, but they're not really Jewish. I mean, they have Jewish ancestry or they have Jewish roots or they, whatever. So there's a misunderstanding of what it means to be Jewish and what that. So people like that aren't voting on being Jewish because they're not Jewish. So the question is, what about Jews who are Jewish? What about Jews who care about Judaism? And the one running thing we have now is the Mamdani election or the coming Mamdani election. And every poll shows that the Jewish opinion in New York city is about three quarters. They are opposed to Madani. 70, 75%, depending on how you say 25% will vote for Mandani. 75% would vote for Cuomo. That's 900,000 Jews in New York City. You can figure those 25% are people who have never set foot in a, I mean, except for a tiny vanguard of, you know, like keffiyeh wearing people who wear a keffiyeh to Yom Kippur to call Nidre services tonight. So the Jews who care about being Jewish do not want Mamdani to be mayor of New York City. And the Jews who don't really care about being Jewish, except to the extent that it offers, it's a flavor packet for, for their personal soup to add a little, you know, a cool ethnic spice to who they are.

[B]

It adds a little kreplech to their soup.

[D]

But the, the liberal Jews who care about Israel are also going through this struggle with denial. I think. They don't, they don't want this to be about anti Semitism among Democrats. They want it to be about Bibi. They want it to be about Trump. They want it to be, you know, they don't, they don't, they don't want to see it as this larger shift, a genuine turn against the Jews. They, they, they want to see it in, in clearer political terms. And it's not. And they're not. I mean, this is just anecdotal this is from, you know, liberal Jews. I know they're not there yet. Largely. They, they're, they're worried, they're not happy. But they're, they're not, they're not yet. They haven't yet sort of come to John, the, the, the sort of point that you laid out here. This is a change.

[A]

You're absolutely right. And BB represents the, the, the, the excuse. I mean, BB represents the BB or you know, even like Charlie Kirk or whatever, Trump.

[B]

Right. I mean they will say, you know, something you will hear is that like, well, I don't know, you know, how much sway Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens are going to have in the Republican Party in the future. And therefore I'm feeling more homeless than I am, you know, I don't know, red pilled, whatever pushed to the right, you know, I don't know, I don't know if I have a place where I, you know, my, you know, I'm prioritized and more feel a bit like a ping pong ball. And that makes them less likely to, you know, to switch a party or something like that, but it won't make them less likely to cast a different vote in a specific election. And so that's where the Mamdani stuff comes in. Because even people who are suspicious of, you know, some trends on the right or who want, you know, maybe are trying to convince themselves that the Democrats are not that much worse then Republicans and therefore they don't have to make a big life change. They will vote against somebody like that, will vote against Mamdani, regardless of whether they are willing to go as far as take a step like changing party. And so you do want to look at these snapshots and see and they usually can tell you something.

[A]

Well, you know, life moves fast. So I mean we did have the defeat in 2024 in Democratic primaries of two squad monsters. You know, Cori Bush and Jamal Bowman both lost their, their places. Jamal Bowman, likely to be Zora Momdani's Education Chancellor of Education here in New York City. So he'll be back. Well, destroyed. You never know.

[C]

Mom, Donnie could go for the former Des Moines guy, the illegal immigrant.

[A]

Well, he could zoom in that way, I think wherever he's deported.

[C]

No, I don't. He's escaped the authorities before. You could wind up Chancellor of New York schools.

[A]

Joanne Chesmar, the ASADA of schooling.

[C]

He's just so charming. That's, that's the, what I love about this, this is my favorite story of the week. But everyone is like, we don't know how he became the superintendent of Des Moines. And the only answer people say, well, he's just so charming.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also we should say Cori Bush is leaning toward, it looks like running again so that we might get it. We may get a rematch of Cori Bush in Missouri. And I don't know how that's going to go. But that's another. That's another snapshot to look at in terms of trend, whether the Democratic Party held on to whatever pushed them in that right direction last time. If it only takes two years for them to turn back around and say, you know, Cori Bush is not so bad. That also tells you something.

[A]

Look, I mean, you make an important point about Tucker Carl's and Candace Owens and that there is this something going on on the right where the sort of classic antisemitism of the old right is resurfacing in this bizarre new social media form. I mean, the old right, I mean the 1930s, 1940s, right. Some of it Catholic, some of it, you know, you know, with the Jews. The Jews still responsible before Vatican 2, you know, currently living Jews bearing the stain of the murder of Jesus, which Vatican 2, you know, re. Rewrote Catholic dogma. So that would no longer be an understanding in. In. In. In Catholic theology, but just classic country from the country club to the, you know, to sort of like redneck ideas about Jews and how evil they were popping up. And yeah, I mean, the obligation of people on. On the right, not just like us, but like everybody, is to. Is to do whatever we can to keep them mired in the fever swamp, you know, that they are. That they are swimming in and do what is necessary to keep them from advancing their views in a way that will start mirroring the advance of these ideas in the Democratic Party in the late aughts and early 2010s. I think we can succeed in that. But that is, you know, we can't just say, oh, Democrats stink. So, you know, you should be over here not being a Democrat because this is a real threat to, to Jews and has to. And on the, you know, has to be taken with the utmost seriousness, even though they're not serious people, but they seem to be speaking for somebody of repulsive American opinion that needs to be countered and overwhelmed. Matt, you have a recommendation?

[C]

I have a recommendation, John. This will appeal to some of our audience, but it certainly appeals to me. I'd like to recommend a new book, just arrived yesterday. I raced through it, called no Lessons Learned, the Making of Curb youb Enthusiasm. It is a beautiful coffee table sized volume on one of my all time favorite shows. Curb youb Enthusiasm, starring Larry David, the co creator of Seinfeld and no Lessons Learned draws on interviews with all the cast and crew including Larry David himself. It is a visually sumptuous volume. You get to see Larry David's bar Mitzvah photo which is amazing and worth the price on its own. You also get to see the outlines that Larry David wrote for various scenes in in the series to give some understanding for people who may not have watched or can't stand Curb youb Enthusiasm. The show does not is not scripted. Unlike Seinfeld where every line was written down by Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld and their team of very talented writers. Curb youb Enthusiasm, which lasted I think 11 Cs, 10 or 11 seasons in 24 years, would begin with outlines. Larry David would write a pretty detailed outline and then the cast of comedians would just improvise off that outline. So you get to actually see the outlines in this book. And the outlines are very interesting to read. And you also get to see a lot of kind of behind the scenes photos, a collection of the best lines, all of the different locations. This is kind of one bittersweet moment in the book is they have a map of Larry David's Los Angeles. And so if you watched the show, there were all these famous locations or not so famous locations that he visited.

[B]

They had a shortcut from that. There was one episode about a shortcut to get around traffic and then everybody found out about it. Do they have stuff?

[A]

They just have.

[C]

They just have the places, not necessarily the traffic instructions. But you do get to see the location of Latte Larry's and Mocha Joe's.

[A]

Which is quite far actually from Spite stores.

[C]

The Spite stores farther away from Brentwood, which is the main kind of. Yeah location than I had imagined. But if you like the show as I do, you will enjoy this volume. No Lessons Learned the Making of Curb.

[A]

Youb Enthusiasm so, you know, it's funny, it's everybody I know of a certain age, I'm 15 years younger than Larry David, but of a certain type of personality. You. You have these things that are now you call and other people call Curb moments where you're. You're in some kind of a totally trivial exchange with somebody somewhere that just flies out of control. And it's actually Covid and Post Covid have made this a much more common thing than it was even when he started playing this game 25 years ago. Where you're just sort of like online at a drugstore and somebody is doing X, Y and Z and you say something or you give somebody a look or something like that, and you end up in this bizarre confrontation that is totally trivial and absolutely comic when viewed from a distance or when you tell the story later. But when you're in the middle of. It seems like it could end in gunfire. Like if you had a gun and the other person had a gun. And I regret to say that I am a subject of many such curb moments, but Abe is too. I will. I'm going to say. I'm not going to make Abe. You know, Abe, Abe. Abe is. Have taken my mantle. I've calmed down. Abe is. There's a lot of stuff involving dog walking, by the way, that. That often brings up curb moments. But it is a real neighbors.

[D]

Neighbors are a good source of curb moments generally.

[A]

Yeah, but I just mean that he certainly fences. Fences good neighbors.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But I mean, I just.

[B]

You should walk around with a recording of the curb theme song. And when these tense moments break out, just hit play and everything will just get fun.

[C]

Or write them down. I mean, I forgot to mention, you also in this book, get to see Larry David's notebooks, which he's been carrying with him, you know, for decades, and where he writes down all of his ideas, whether based on actual encounters or sometimes just out of his imagination. And that's pretty fun to. To be able to look inside the mind of Larry David as well.

[A]

I just think he. He surfaced something about human nature and the comedy of human nature that almost no one had ever really tapped into. Which is. Which are these moments of frictional misunderstanding that just sort of like accelerate and then lead to secondary moments of misunderstanding and demands for apologies that go wrong and all of that. And it really is almost. I mean, not to get pretentious, but it's almost like Moliere level comedy about human interaction that we don't really see people engaging in because it is. Can be very discomforting. That's why so many people hate it because it's all about confrontations. And people not only shy away from confrontations in life, but don't really like seeing them depicted on screen.

[D]

He's also jerky. His character is a bit of a jerk. I mean that, you know, as were the Seinfeld characters. Well, he's that kind of seed of it.

[A]

Yeah, he's a jerk, but he's also right a lot of the time. Time. And he himself is subject to a petty injustice that his Effort to redress, takes it too far, and then he gets unjustly punished for something that he did. And that's also part of the. The. The genius of the show. But it is. It is very divisive, I have to say. And yet.

[B]

Yeah, but it's very divisive on the other side of that is that it makes a lot of people happy because it makes a lot of people feel better because we've all had those moments. And that's what Seinfeld did, too, which was. It made a lot of the country suddenly, like, kind of lift off your shoulders a bit. Right. A burden. Not like, oh, yeah, he's. Look, other people have these stupid misunderstandings too. Other people say something that's overheard by the wrong person or whatever or. Or have a parking dispute. Whatever. Whatever it is, it made you feel like you're not the awkward person in this. Everybody's awkward. We're all awkward together. See how we all share this? And because it's such a popular show, every. Millions of people clearly have these exchanges. And so it made people feel kind of weirdly better about the awkwardness.

[A]

It's also the only place over the last 25 years where you had actual comedy about race and religion, which everyone else has shied away from. Right. Larry's relation with Leon, his. I don't even know who Leon is, his black best friend, and Border, who.

[C]

Happens to live with him and roommate.

[A]

And then we meet Leon's family, and then we have. And. And it. It is a. Yeah, well, that was the.

[C]

When the. The family came because they were. This is how old the show is. The family named the Blacks arrive at the Larry David household in 2005 because they're fleeing Hurricane Katrina.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And Leon is part of them. And then they just find out, I think, in the first episode where he appears that actually he lives down the street in another LA neighborhood. He just decided to come and join. Join his family living inside the David residence and where he stays for, you know, 20 years, basically.

[A]

Yeah. And then they go back to the. I mean, anyway, the point is that David found an extraordinarily innovative way to deal with comedy that people are no longer allowed to deal with, like racial relations, trans Palestinian relations, Orthodox Jewish versus non orthodox Jewish relations, intermarriage, gay marriage. Gay marriage, Mormons.

[B]

He made the Klan funny. He had the whole episode about dry cleaning the robe.

[A]

Yeah. I'm just saying that the show is much more classic American vaudeville comedy in a weird way, and that he was seeded. The entirety of American comedy about Uncomfortable social relationships because Hollywood and comedy went woke and you were not allowed to talk about any of this except in relation to sex, which is not really a huge subject on Curb. You. And so it's actually sort of thrilling the degree to which it's not about chasing tail or, you know, doing drugs stuff that comedy America in the last 20 years has been about, which is like sex and drugs and drugs and sex and sex and drugs, because that's a way of avoiding politics.

[C]

The only drug episode I could think of is when Larry, who has hired a prostitute in order to use the HOV lane to get to the Dodgers game, uses, tries marijuana for the first time and has a bad trip. Out of a hundred episodes, I think that's the only one that springs to mind involving. Involving Larry and drugs.

[A]

Yeah. No, but the great. The great hypocrisy over Palestinian chicken.

[C]

One of the classics of all time.

[A]

You know, the. What happens if you're on a ski lift.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

When Shabbos hits.

[C]

Yes. Another great one. They have the script of that episode in the book. Yeah, it's very funny, too, to read.

[A]

Anyway, so I look Jewish.

[B]

There was Jewish humor that was, you know, inside enough that it was also kind of thrilling at times to see this on Prestige show. The way that we, you know, there were jokes about, you know, the.

[A]

The.

[B]

The wall of names, you know, the tree of life at shul and what you can write on it and, you know, stuff like that that really were pretty inside stuff, but also very clever.

[A]

Yeah, Well, I mean, the ultimate. The ultimate. What I still think is, you know, the greatest sort of comic episode of the 21st century is the dinner party where the person who is in the cast of Survivor ends up at a dinner table with a Holocaust survivor.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And says, you don't know what we went through. You know, we were on this island.

[C]

No, the best part was when you have flip flops.

[A]

And then the survivor of Auschwitz is like, you didn't have flip flops.

[C]

No, but they called me then. Irate. This is also the book says, haven't you heard of my show? And the survivor goes, have you ever heard of my show? It was called the Holocaust.

[A]

Like, beyond belief. Anyway, it was scary.

[B]

You can't leave out hanging the mezuzah. Can't find a nail to hang the mezuzah. So he takes the nail off the Christian guy's necklace, the Jesus nail. I mean, who else would have done.

[C]

We're devolving here.

[A]

I can't help. I can't remember. Brought it up.

[C]

Member Berries here.

[A]

Okay. Yes. Well, I hope you all enjoyed this 20 minute tribute to Curb youb Enthusiasm.

[C]

On Kol Nidre, no less.

[A]

I'm Cole Nidre. Yes, on Kol Nidre. I have an easy fast for those who are fasting. And we will be back on Friday. So for Matt, Seth and Abe, I'm John. Pod Horiz. Keep the candle burning.