The Commentary Magazine Podcast: "The Wreckage of K-12 Education" Summary

Release Date: May 29, 2025
Host: John Podhoretz
Participants:

• John Podhoretz – Host and Editor of Commentary Magazine
• Abe Greenwald – Executive Editor
• Christine Rosen – Social Commentary Columnist and Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute
• Robert Pondiscio – Education Contributor and Former K-12 Teacher

1. Introduction

John Podhoretz opens the episode by promoting upcoming live events and guest appearances, notably the "Call Me Back" podcast with Dan Senor and Brett McGurk. He humorously remarks on the competitive nature of podcast rankings, highlighting his support for fellow Commentary contributors.

2. Political Climate and Executive Power

Discussion Highlights:

• Trump’s Tariffs and Judicial Oversight:
  Robert Pondiscio discusses the recent ruling by the Court of International Trade declaring President Donald Trump's Liberation Day tariffs unconstitutional. He criticizes the administration's use of executive power and anticipates further judicial resistance.

  “They are unconstitutional. Everybody knows that. He knows it.” [05:15]

• Demonization of the Judiciary:
  Abe Greenwald expresses concern over the administration’s rhetoric against unelected judges, noting the increase in threats against the federal judiciary.

  “I don't like the demonization of judges... It's not a good thing.” [06:09]

• Upcoming Supreme Court Decisions:
  The panel anticipates significant Supreme Court rulings, potentially on hot-button issues like immigration and higher education. They highlight the court's active role in checking executive power.

  “The judiciary is doing its job... it is healthy for discussions of federalism.” [10:46]

3. Higher Education and Meritocracy

Discussion Highlights:

• Harvard’s Admission Practices:
  The conversation shifts to Harvard University, where Roman Pondiscio critiques the institution's lowering of academic standards and the politicization of admissions processes.

  “No one has held... these institutions to any kind of account for their behavior.” [14:32]

• Impact of Affirmative Action and Meritocracy:
  They debate the effectiveness of meritocracy versus equity in admissions, with Robert asserting that dismantling meritocracy leads to aristocracy and oligarchy.

  “Privilege finds a way... it's not equity.” [45:49]

• Recommendation of Educational Literature:
  John Podhoretz recommends "Up the Down Staircase" by Bel Kaufman, a novel portraying the bureaucratic challenges within the American public school system.

  “It remains the single best novel... about American secondary education.” [61:38]

4. K-12 Education Crisis

Discussion Highlights:

• Declining Standards and "Wokeness":
  Robert Pondiscio provides an overview of the decline in K-12 education standards over the past few decades, attributing it to the rise of "wokeness" and the erosion of accountability measures.

  “Chronic absenteeism... Removing honors programs, test optional, on and on.” [40:20]

• Impact of COVID-19:
  Abe Greenwald highlights how the pandemic exacerbated issues like low attendance and relaxed academic standards, leading to significant learning losses.

  “Perfect storm... ideological assault on standards.” [43:50]

• Success and Decline of Charter Schools:
  The panel discusses the success of charter schools like KIPP and Success Academy in improving educational outcomes, and how political shifts have undermined their effectiveness.

  “Urban charter schools remain the one unambiguous win we've had.” [28:06]

5. Education Reform Movements and Charter Schools

Discussion Highlights:

• No-Excuses Education:
  Robert Pondiscio explains the "no excuses" model pioneered by KIPP schools, emphasizing high standards, uniformity, and rigorous academic expectations which led to remarkable student performance.

  “No excuses meant no excuses for adults. We as adults fail the children.” [23:33]

• Shift Away from Standards:
  The conversation critiques the abandonment of standardized testing and accountability, arguing that this shift has led to grade inflation and diminished academic rigor.

  “It's a war on standards, war on meritocracy.” [44:35]

• Emergence of Education Savings Accounts (ESAs):
  Robert Pondiscio discusses the rise of ESAs in states like Texas and Florida, comparing them to vouchers and predicting their disruptive impact on traditional public schooling.

  “About 50% of families... have the ability to do that.” [56:44]

6. Political Implications: NYC Mayoral Election

Discussion Highlights:

• Candidates Overview:
  John Podhoretz outlines the New York City mayoral primary featuring former Governor Andrew Cuomo and young leftist Zora Mamdani. He criticizes Cuomo's tenure and praises his role in preserving Success Academy schools.

  “I think Andrew Cuomo is an unbalanced and unstable person.” [29:31]

• Impact on Education Policy:
  The panel assesses how the mayoral race reflects broader educational debates, particularly the conflict between charter schools and progressive education policies.

  “Cuomo bears some responsibility... for that.” [36:55]

7. Conclusion

John Podhoretz wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to read Robert Pondiscio’s piece, "How Wokeness Destroyed an Education Miracle," available on Commentary.org. He reiterates the significance of addressing the ongoing crises in K-12 education and the importance of maintaining high academic standards.

“It was a great pleasure to have Robert on... thank you so much for your contribution.” [61:38]

Recommendation:
John Podhoretz recommends "Up the Down Staircase" by Bel Kaufman, highlighting its insightful portrayal of the American public school system's challenges.

Key Takeaways:

• The U.S. education system, particularly K-12, is facing significant challenges due to declining standards, politicization, and the erosion of accountability measures.
• Charter schools have demonstrated success in improving educational outcomes, but political interference has undermined their effectiveness.
• Higher education institutions are grappling with meritocracy versus equity, leading to debates over admission practices and the role of affirmative action.
• Political dynamics, such as the upcoming NYC mayoral election, have profound implications for education policy and reform efforts.
• The broader political climate, including executive overreach and judicial backlash, continues to influence educational governance and standards.

Notable Quotes:

• “Everyone on the right has been discussing DEI for the last ten years, but these conversations have been going on for a decade or more in these schools.” – Abe Greenwald [19:22]
• “The elite will always be fine. They'll always find a way.” – Robert Pondiscio [50:38]
• “It's a war on meritocracy, war on privilege.” – John Podhoretz [44:35]

This summary encapsulates the critical discussions from "The Wreckage of K-12 Education" episode, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners and readers seeking to understand the current state and future trajectory of American education.