The Commentary Magazine Podcast: "Trump, Bibi, and God" – Summary

Release Date: June 17, 2025
Host: John Podhoretz, Editor of Commentary Magazine
Guests: Abe Greenwald (Executive Editor), Christine Rosen (Social Commentary Columnist)
Absent Guest: Seth Mandel (Senior Editor) due to connectivity issues

Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode opens with John Podhoretz welcoming listeners and introducing co-hosts Abe Greenwald and Christine Rosen. Seth Mandel attempts to join the conversation but faces connectivity problems, leading to intermittent appearances throughout the show.

Trump’s Foreign Policy Consistency on Iran and Israel

John Podhoretz initiates the discussion by analyzing President Donald Trump's consistent stance on Iran and Israel over the past decade. He references Trump's inaugural political speech, highlighting key themes such as:

• Protection of Israel: “We have to protect Israel.” ([05:30])
• Preventing Iran's Nuclear Capability: “I will stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons.” ([05:45])

Podhoretz emphasizes that ten years later, these commitments remain central as Israel faces ongoing threats from Iran, particularly regarding Iran's nuclear ambitions. He explores various scenarios, including potential military actions against Iran’s Fordow nuclear facility, either by the U.S., Israel, or through other means.

Notable Quote:

“He makes that deal, Israel maybe won't exist very long. It's a disaster, and we have to protect Israel.” – John Podhoretz ([07:00])

Critique of Trump’s Consistency and Administration Dynamics

Christine Rosen responds by acknowledging Trump’s consistency but points out inconsistencies within his administration. She highlights the appointment of Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence (DNI), suggesting that her background and perspectives may not align with the hardline stance on Iran.

Notable Quote:

“He has staffed his administration with people who are, who are not on board or consistent when it comes to ending Iran's nuclear power program.” – Christine Rosen ([06:30])

Rosen also discusses internal conflicts within the MAGA base, citing figures like Tucker Carlson and Dave Smith who challenge the administration's policies, portraying a fragmented support system.

MAGA Base, Internal Conflicts, and Policy Implications

John Podhoretz delves into the dynamics of the MAGA base, illustrating tensions between the traditional hardline conservatives and newer, more populist elements. He references the assassination plot against Trump in 2019 as a catalyst for increased unrest within the MAGA faction.

Notable Quote:

“There are people who say that Benjamin Netanyahu was put on this earth not to do judicial reform... but he was put on this earth to end the Iranian nuclear program.” – John Podhoretz ([17:00])

Podhoretz posits that Trump's leadership style, characterized by unilateral decision-making and a focus on specific foreign policy goals, particularly regarding Iran, remains unchallenged within the MAGA movement despite emerging dissent.

Metaphysical Considerations: The Divine Role of Leaders

The conversation takes a metaphysical turn as Podhoretz speculates on the providential roles of leaders like Trump and Netanyahu. He draws parallels to biblical figures who, despite not being inherently righteous, fulfill significant roles in Jewish history.

Notable Quote:

“I do believe that Israel is a providential nation and that something metaphysical is going on with Israel with the survival of the Jewish people over 2000 years...” – John Podhoretz ([18:00])

Christine Rosen counters by questioning whether Trump personally embraces such a metaphysical role, suggesting that Netanyahu possesses a deeper understanding of his historical and religious significance compared to Trump.

Neoconservatism and Commentary Magazine’s Legacy

Abe Greenwald reflects on the legacy of neoconservatism, emphasizing its roots in anti-communist ideology and the policy of containment. He traces the evolution of Commentary Magazine as a foundational platform for neoconservative thought, particularly in foreign policy.

Notable Quote:

“Containment was the policy that what you try to do to the extent that you can is contain your enemy in the space that it already holds.” – Abe Greenwald ([46:00])

Greenwald critiques the policy shifts post-Iraq War, highlighting how the failure to sustain hawkish policies has led to diminished deterrence against Iran.

America First vs. Neoconservative Policies

The discussion shifts to the ideological clash between neoconservatism and Trump's "America First" agenda. Podhoretz argues that neoconservatism, with its proactive rollback approach, is being overshadowed by a more isolationist stance within the current administration.

Notable Quote:

“Neoconservatism... was a reformist movement. ... These ideas are bad and they're not workable, and they need to be replaced by other ideas.” – John Podhoretz ([60:00])

Christine Rosen explores the cultural and generational shifts influencing American foreign policy, noting how Obama's diplomacy contrastingly altered public perception and policy approaches toward countries like Iran.

Future Scenarios and Leadership Dynamics

Podhoretz speculates on future leadership dynamics, considering the potential impact of Trump's decisions on Iran and the broader implications for Israel. He contemplates possible outcomes where Trump either enacts decisive military action against Iran or opts for negotiation, each with profound consequences for U.S. and Israeli policies.

Notable Quote:

“If Trump... orders the American air Force and strategic bombers to take out Fordow... it is enshrining the policy of military deterrence in relation to nuclear weapons for the next half century.” – John Podhoretz ([54:35])

Christine Rosen adds that Netanyahu's long-term leadership is approaching its end, raising questions about succession and the future direction of Israeli policy if American support wanes or shifts.

Conclusion: The Intersection of Leadership, Policy, and Providence

As the episode wraps up, Podhoretz emphasizes the critical juncture at which U.S. and Israeli leadership stand regarding Iran's nuclear capabilities. He underscores the historical pressures and the weight of prophetic roles that leaders like Netanyahu bear, while contemplating Trump's unique position within the MAGA movement and his potential to shape or destabilize existing policies.

Notable Quote:

“Honesty requires even somebody like me who couldn't bring himself to vote for Trump in 2024 to say that he is, he is on his way to seeming like one of the righteous gentiles who has helped save the Jewish people in history.” – John Podhoretz ([68:00])

The episode concludes with reflections on the unpredictability of unfolding events and the enduring impact of leadership decisions on global geopolitics.

Key Takeaways

• Trump’s Consistency: Over the past decade, Trump has maintained a consistent stance on preventing Iran’s nuclear ambitions and protecting Israel, mirroring his initial political promises.

• Internal Administration Dynamics: Appointments like Tulsi Gabbard as DNI reflect potential inconsistencies within Trump's administration regarding foreign policy, particularly towards Iran.

• MAGA Base Tensions: The MAGA movement exhibits internal conflicts between traditional hardliners and newer populist elements, impacting unified policy support.

• Providential Leadership: The discussion explores the notion that leaders like Trump and Netanyahu may be fulfilling larger, possibly divinely aligned roles in history, though opinions on this vary among the hosts.

• Neoconservatism vs. America First: The legacy of neoconservative foreign policy is examined against Trump's "America First" agenda, highlighting ideological shifts and policy implications.

• Future Leadership and Policy Outcomes: Speculations on future scenarios underscore the critical role of current and upcoming leaders in shaping the trajectory of U.S. and Israeli policies toward Iran.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• John Podhoretz ([05:30]): “He makes that deal, Israel maybe won't exist very long. It's a disaster, and we have to protect Israel.”

• Christine Rosen ([06:30]): “He has staffed his administration with people who are, who are not on board or consistent when it comes to ending Iran's nuclear power program.”

• John Podhoretz ([17:00]): “There are people who say that Benjamin Netanyahu was put on this earth not to do judicial reform... but he was put on this earth to end the Iranian nuclear program.”

• John Podhoretz ([18:00]): “I do believe that Israel is a providential nation and that something metaphysical is going on with Israel with the survival of the Jewish people over 2000 years...”

• Abe Greenwald ([46:00]): “Containment was the policy that what you try to do to the extent that you can is contain your enemy in the space that it already holds.”

• John Podhoretz ([54:35]): “If Trump... orders the American air Force and strategic bombers to take out Fordow... it is enshrining the policy of military deterrence in relation to nuclear weapons for the next half century.”

• John Podhoretz ([60:00]): “Neoconservatism... was a reformist movement. ... These ideas are bad and they're not workable, and they need to be replaced by other ideas.”

• John Podhoretz ([68:00]): “Honesty requires even somebody like me who couldn't bring himself to vote for Trump in 2024 to say that he is, he is on his way to seeming like one of the righteous gentiles who has helped save the Jewish people in history.”

Note: This summary excludes sections identified as advertisements and non-content segments to focus solely on the substantive discussions pertaining to foreign policy, leadership dynamics, and ideological debates surrounding Trump and Netanyahu's roles in current geopolitical contexts.