The Commentary Magazine Podcast: "Trump's Constitutional Outrages"

Date: August 26, 2025
Panel: John Podhoretz (host), Abe Greenwald, Christine Rosen, Seth Mandel
Theme: A deep dive into recent Trump administration actions stretching constitutional norms, their historical echoes, and the dangers of norm erosion in American executive governance.

Episode Overview

The panel explores a series of recent executive actions under Donald Trump that, in their view, constitute fresh "constitutional outrages." The episode balances criticism of Trump’s apparent disregard for institutional guardrails with reflections on precedent—namely, similar overreaches by the Biden and Obama administrations. The participants warn of long-term fallout as both political sides normalize bending or breaking standards that formerly protected the American constitutional order. The discussion pivots between specific moves (targeted removals, executive orders, public safety measures, and punitive actions against opponents) and broader philosophical questions about what kind of government these accumulating actions are building.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Latest Exercise of Presidential Power

• Lisa Cook's Removal from the Federal Reserve Board
  • Trump is attempting to remove Lisa Cook, a Fed Board member, ostensibly due to allegations about her mortgage application—a charge described as "clearly pretextual."
  • John Podhoretz (04:20): "No authority that we know of has actually brought any kind of action against her… this is a form of intimidation, an effort to, you know, use presidential power to force a political opponent from office."
  • The Supreme Court recently outlined that while presidents can remove members of some agencies, the Fed is purposely shielded; Trump’s move flies in the face of that.
  • Seth Mandel (06:39): "He just wants to scare the Fed chairman and maybe get her to quit because it’s too much money to defend herself in court."

2. Executive Orders and Norm-Busting

• Flag Burning Executive Order

  • Trump has issued an order criminalizing the burning of the American flag—an act the Supreme Court protected as free speech in 1989's Texas v. Johnson.
  • Christine Rosen (08:01): "When Trump pushes the bounds...the court has swooped in here and there...From his perspective, they want to do a lot. I think they’re thinking, we'll just keep pushing and the courts will do what they'll do."
  • The panel views this more as "performance art" and trolling than substantive policy, but still dangerous as a precedent.

• Public Safety & DC National Guard

  • Trump has signed executive orders creating new specialized law enforcement units in DC under the Department of Defense, potentially establishing permanent new arms of federal policing.
  • Abe Greenwald (10:07): "That sort of thing doesn’t go away...There are going to be lingering consequences for some of this stuff because some of them are government programs and some are executive orders that would be smacked down."

• TikTok Ban Delays

  • Despite rhetoric and congressional action, Trump’s administration is slow-walking enforcement of a TikTok ban.
  • Seth Mandel (07:11): "This is just a payoff to the Chinese Communist Party...They’re just completely flouting the way our system is supposed to work."

3. Trend of Tit-for-Tat Executive Power Grabs

• The panel notes this is not solely a Trumpian innovation—there's a throughline from Obama’s executive actions ("I've got a pen and a phone") to Biden (student debt cancellations, CDC eviction moratorium) to Trump’s own expanding of executive remit.
• John Podhoretz (15:50): "He’s just using the tools that Democrats used before me and after me...Executive orders, so the hell with you. And I think that's appalling. But I don’t think there’s a systematic effort to undermine the US. He just wants to do what he wants to do."

4. MAGA Rhetoric, Culture War, and the Erosion of Norms

• The show's participants emphasize that MAGA supporters and new right intellectuals see recent moves not as overreaches, but as necessary counterattacks in a long-running war—retaliating for perceived wrongs by the left and the federal bureaucracy.
• Christine Rosen (17:26): "His supporters come at it entirely differently...He is pushing back on those who would destroy him."
• The concern is not just policy, but atmosphere—public exhaustion and indifference that allow new precedents to harden.
• Seth Mandel (20:20): "We’re calling them niceties...the erosion of those norms, if it just keeps going back and forth, we have them no longer."

5. The Two Strains of Trump Administration “Revolution”

• 1. Trump the Pragmatist:

  • Sees norms as weapons wielded equally by both sides, now using every tool at hand but not seeking a fundamentally new constitutional order.
  • John Podhoretz (31:03): "Does Trump want to revolutionize America into a new system? I think the answer is no. He just wants to do what he wants to do....He is not in Mein Kampf."

• 2. The MAGA Ideologists:

  • A growing cadre of administration intellectuals do see the moment as one of permanent emergency warranting revolutionary responses.
  • Podhoretz (32:40): "I see no evidence or indication in the logic, language or rhetoric...that they are not embracing a new kind of idea about America—which is that we are in a state of perpetual emergency because the culture war is so severe."
  • The “Flight 93” mindset becomes official policy—people like the original “Flight 93" essayist are now in senior administration roles.

6. Political Consequences and the Future of Both Parties

• Democratic Crossroads:

  • Moderate Democrat leaders (e.g., Spamberger, Sherrill) could be swept aside in favor of more radical progressives akin to AOC and Mamdani if they don't win in off-year elections.
  • Podhoretz (54:34): "If Spamberger and Sherrill lose...it's the Tea Party all over. Why are you even running these faceless, colorless, meaningless people...You’re done. We're the future, you're the past."

• Republican Party’s Long-Term Shape:

  • Panelists fear the GOP is training itself for perpetual revolution—a norm-smashing, crisis-minded party, regardless of whom it nominates.
  • Podhoretz (40:49): "In an odd way, Trump isn't a revolutionary, but I don't know that the Republican Party is not training itself to be a permanent revolutionary force."

• Cycle of Emergency Thinking:

  • Repeated justification of exception and emergency is becoming a new default.
  • Abe Greenwald (42:08): "The problem with this way of thinking is the emergency...becomes permanent, a permanent way of thinking and governing overnight."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Executive Overreach:

  • "This is a form of intimidation, an effort to use presidential power to force a political opponent from office..."
    — John Podhoretz, (04:20)

• On Performance and Symbolism:

  • "If Trump really cared about the desecration of the flag...he should get a constitutional amendment passed. But that's not what he's doing, this is just pure performance art for him."
    — Seth Mandel, (06:39)

• On Escalating Power Grabs:

  • "You spent eight years trying to stop me, using all of these unbelievably illegitimate methods...So don't come at me like I'm just using the tools that Democrats used before me and after me."
    — John Podhoretz, (15:50)

• On Permanent Emergency:

  • "You don't need a revolutionary-minded person right in the Oval Office...a confused Joe Biden could lead to a whole shadow State Department and all this other stuff."
    — Abe Greenwald, (41:30)

• On Norm Erosion and Reciprocity:

  • "Erosion of those norms...if it just keeps going back and forth, we have them no longer."
    — Seth Mandel, (20:20)

• On Political Reckoning to Come:

  • "If they lose, then it's the Tea Party all over...You guys suck. You can't win. We can win."
    — John Podhoretz, (58:11)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:18-06:03: Opening roundup of recent Trump actions—especially the Lisa Cook situation and its implications
• 06:10-10:00: Discussion of symbolic executive orders (flag burning) and their real political function
• 10:07-12:20: New policing orders in DC and their permanence
• 12:20-15:50: Historical perspective: Is Trump exceptional, or in the Biden/Obama pattern?
• 15:50-22:19: Tit-for-tat, cultural attitudes, and the MAGA perception of their campaign
• 22:19-31:03: Trump's rejection of Congressional process; bypassing constitutional levers
• 31:03-41:30: Are we living a revolutionary moment? Comparing Trump, his staff, and their intentions
• 41:30-46:13: Biden, the role of staffers, and how “emergency” policymaking becomes the norm
• 46:13-54:34: Whether the public would elect a "true revolutionary"; how the moderate vs. radical split may play out
• 54:34-58:13: The 2025/2026 electoral landscape—does a moderate Democrat even have a future?
• 58:11-end: Reflections and cultural recommendations (skippable for content summary)

Conclusion: What’s at Stake?

The Commentary panel argues that while Trump’s current batch of executive power grabs may, on the surface, seem like more of the same (given recent precedents), the widespread disregard for process and the open justification of “emergency” thinking suggest a far more dangerous trend: the normalization of breaking constitutional traditions. Both parties, they fear, face futures where internal extremes use legitimate grievances to justify further norm-shattering, leaving less and less space for both restraint and the center.

For listeners pressed for time:

• The first 35 minutes offer the heart of the legal and philosophical analysis.
• Key quoted moments:
  • [04:20] – On intimidation and the Fed
  • [06:39] – On flag burning as performance
  • [15:50] – On the circular logic of executive overreach
  • [31:03] – On whether Trump is a revolutionary
  • [54:34] – Electoral consequences for party futures