The Commentary Magazine Podcast: "Trump's Vengeance Temptation"

Release Date: December 18, 2024

Overview

In the episode titled "Trump's Vengeance Temptation," the hosts of The Commentary Magazine Podcast delve into the escalating tensions surrounding former President Donald Trump’s potential legal actions against Liz Cheney and the January 6th Committee. The discussion navigates through the implications of Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, the internal dynamics of the Republican Party, and the broader political landscape as the 2024 election cycle intensifies. Additionally, the hosts address the current state of governmental operations, including the House's struggles with passing a continuing resolution to keep the government funded.

Key Discussions

1. Liz Cheney and Cassidy Hutchinson’s Testimony

Jon Pod Horowitz initiates the conversation by expressing admiration for Liz Cheney, highlighting her principled stance following the January 6th events. He discusses potential legal actions Trump might pursue against Cheney and the January 6th Committee, labeling such moves as "foolishness and a waste of time."

[07:00] Jon Pod Horowitz: "I consider Liz Cheney a friend. I think she did things in the wake of January 6th that were noble..."

Abe Greenwald provides context by referencing a report from the House Administration Oversight Subcommittee led by Representative Barry Loudermilk, which alleges federal law violations by Cheney.

[04:14] Abe Greenwald: "Based on the evidence obtained by this subcommittee, numerous federal laws were likely broken by Liz Cheney..."

Christine Rosen emphasizes the gravity of potential perjury by Cassidy Hutchinson, noting her possible motivations tied to a forthcoming memoir.

[12:00] Christine Rosen: "People giving false testimony to Congress, they're sworn in... this is not good."

2. Republican Party Dynamics and Leadership Challenges

The hosts examine the internal struggles within the Republican Party, particularly focusing on Speaker Mike Johnson's attempts to pass a continuing resolution without alienating the populist conservative base.

Matthew Continetti critiques the oversized continuing resolution bill, filled with unrelated policies favored by Democrats, which has triggered frustration among House Republicans.

[45:01] Matthew Continetti: "What's in the CR? Full federal payment for the Francis Scott Key Bridge... free trade agreement with Haiti..."

Seth Mandel comments on the maximalist mindset within the Republican caucus, suggesting that members are resistant to compromise.

[50:27] Seth Mandel: "Republicans still have this maximalist mindset..."

3. Trump's Potential Use of Clemency

The possibility of Trump issuing pardons or clemencies for January 6th rioters is a significant point of debate.

Jon Pod Horowitz speculates on the political ramifications of such actions, comparing them to historical precedents like President Bill Clinton's controversial pardons.

[31:56] Jon Pod Horowitz: "Trump is playing with fire with the idea that... he should take... convicted in a court of law and say you're totally free..."

Abe Greenwald echoes concerns about the impact on Trump's reputation and the broader implications for the Republican Party.

[35:29] Abe Greenwald: "He always, he always says it's case by case."

4. Impact of January 6th on Public Perception and Legal Actions

Abe Greenwald reflects on how the significance of January 6th has evolved in the public consciousness, suggesting that ongoing legal actions against Trump may influence its interpretation.

[21:55] Abe Greenwald: "The meaning of January 6th seems to have changed over the past four years in ways that scramble the politics of it."

Jon Pod Horowitz discusses the January 6th Committee's transition from fact-finding to potential criminal prosecution, critiquing its effectiveness.

[18:52] Jon Pod Horowitz: "...it morphed into a fact criminal effort to do criminal fact finding on behalf of the Justice Department."

5. Government Funding and Legislative Challenges

The conversation shifts to the challenges faced by the House of Representatives in passing a continuing resolution to prevent a government shutdown. The narrow margins and internal disagreements within the Republican Party complicate the legislative process.

Abe Greenwald expresses frustration with the current legislative negotiations, highlighting specific contentious provisions included in the continuing resolution.

[48:36] Abe Greenwald: "...full federal payment for the Francis Scott Key Bridge... free trade agreement with Haiti..."

Seth Mandel points out the backlash from prominent Republicans like Elon Musk against the passing bill, indicating deeper fractures within the party.

[49:55] Seth Mandel: "Elon Musk ... there’s no way this should pass."

Notable Quotes

• Jon Pod Horowitz ([07:00]): "I consider Liz Cheney a friend. I think she did things in the wake of January 6th that were noble..."

• Abe Greenwald ([04:14]): "Based on the evidence obtained by this subcommittee, numerous federal laws were likely broken by Liz Cheney..."

• Christine Rosen ([12:00]): "People giving false testimony to Congress, they're sworn in... this is not good."

• Matthew Continetti ([45:01]): "What's in the CR? Full federal payment for the Francis Scott Key Bridge... free trade agreement with Haiti..."

• Seth Mandel ([50:27]): "Republicans still have this maximalist mindset..."

• Jon Pod Horowitz ([31:56]): "Trump is playing with fire with the idea that... he should take... convicted in a court of law and say you're totally free..."

Conclusions and Insights

The episode underscores a fracturing Republican Party grappling with internal divisions between traditional conservatives and the more radical populist faction led by Trump allies. The legal maneuvers against Liz Cheney and the scrutiny of Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony signify a strategic attempt to undermine dissent within the party. Simultaneously, the Republican leadership's struggle to pass a coherent continuing resolution reveals vulnerabilities in party unity and legislative efficacy.

Trump's contemplation of clemency for January 6th participants emerges as a potential flashpoint, risking both political capital and public support. The hosts caution that such actions could alienate moderate voters and tarnish Trump's legacy, drawing parallels to historical precedents where similar moves had lasting negative repercussions.

Furthermore, the enduring impact of January 6th on American politics remains a contentious issue, with evolving public perceptions influenced by ongoing legal challenges and political narratives. The episode suggests that the fallout from these events will continue to shape the political landscape well into the 2024 elections and beyond.

Additional Highlights

• Book Recommendation: Abe Greenwald recommends "The Mercy of Gods" by James S.A. Corey, praising it as an exceptional piece of science fiction and the start of a promising new series.

• Technology and Culture: The hosts briefly discuss the Sci-Fi series The Expanse, noting its popularity and the challenges of portraying expansive universes on television due to budget constraints.

Final Thoughts

"Trump's Vengeance Temptation" offers a deep dive into the intricate interplay between legal strategies, party politics, and personal vendettas that define the current American political climate. The hosts provide a nuanced analysis, emphasizing the long-term implications of today's decisions on the Republican Party's future and the broader democratic framework.

For listeners seeking an insightful examination of the ongoing political turmoil surrounding Donald Trump, Liz Cheney, and the aftermath of January 6th, this episode serves as a comprehensive resource, blending detailed discussion with incisive commentary.

Note: Timestamps correspond to the original podcast transcript segments for accurate reference.