War of Fog

Summary

The Commentary Magazine Podcast Episode: "War of Fog" – July 14, 2026 Host: John Podhoretz Panelists: Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Eliana Johnson

Overview

This episode of The Commentary Magazine Podcast centers on the United States' renewed war engagement with Iran. The hosts dissect President Donald Trump’s recent decisions regarding military action, sanctions, and blockade policies against Iran, as well as the broader absence of clear strategy. The latter half shifts to an in-depth discussion on Islamic radicalism’s influence in American politics, prompted by Eliana Johnson’s reporting on Michigan Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed’s familial connections to radical groups. The team also reflects on shifting American patriotism, especially within the Democratic Party, and concludes with acknowledgments to recently departed panelist Christine Rosen.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. America's Renewed Conflict with Iran

(00:43–18:37)

Trump’s War Declaration and the New 60-Day Clock

• Trump formally notifies Congress of renewed hostilities with Iran, restarting the 60-day War Powers clock.
• U.S. has re-established a blockade on Iranian shipping, aiming to degrade Iran's oil export abilities.
• Trump is threatening to "blow up Pickaxe Mountain," believed to house an underground Iranian nuclear site, escalating tensions (“If he does that, then it’s open season on Americans in the Middle East”—Iranians’ threat, 00:57).

Abe Greenwald’s Critique: Lack of Strategy

• “Once again, I don’t know what the… if the long-term aim is to break the regime by blockading the strait, then that’s all we need to know. But I get the sense that there’s some short and medium term plan here—or the makings of one—and I don’t understand what it is” (Abe, 02:19).
• Panel laments absence of a comprehensive “endgame” or defined strategy.

The 60-Day War Powers ‘Trick’

• Seth’s analogy: likens Trump’s War Powers maneuver to using Jewish law loopholes: “Carry something for four cubits, put it down, step forward, pick it up again — that’s what Trump is doing with the 60-day war powers thing” (Seth, 06:51).
• Skepticism that this procedural workaround will satisfy even Republicans or clarify intent for public/Congress.

Economic Warfare: Sanctions, Oil Prices, and Their Limits

• Sanctions and the blockade are back; Iran made $4B in oil fees during the ceasefire, but now faces renewed economic pressure (John, 03:06).
• Panel doubts economic pressure alone will destabilize a regime “that believes it has God on its side” (John, 04:10).
• Temporary dip in U.S. inflation is credited to gas price relief, but considered fleeting as oil rebounds ($65 to $75–$80/barrel in one week, John, 09:12–10:43).

Trump’s Proposal to Toll the Strait of Hormuz

• Trump announces intended U.S. surcharge for shipping through the Strait—deemed “insane” and a focus-shifting distraction (John, 12:35).
• “He is not allowed—the United States is not allowed to toll the Strait of Hormuz any more than Iran is allowed… That is bad bad 21st-century, not goodness” (John, 13:24).
• Trump’s “where do we get our cut?” mentality dissected (Abe, 14:35).
• Eliana: “If the US is actually escorting ships… and no other countries are willing to pitch in… I’m not as exercised about it… I just think it’s a lower principle than making sure Iran doesn’t control it” (Eliana, 15:10).
• Panel considers alternative: using unfrozen Iranian assets for war costs (Seth & John, 16:33–16:40).

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2. Islamic Radicalism and American Politics

(22:04–52:11)

Eliana Johnson’s Reporting on Abdul El-Sayed

• El-Sayed’s father-in-law held leadership in CAIR-Michigan and the Islamic Society of North America, both unindicted co-conspirators in major U.S. terrorism financing cases (Eliana, 22:04).
• These ties are analogized to similar radicalism seen in congressional races, e.g., Adam Hammawi in New Jersey (Eliana, 24:21).

Support for Hamas Among American Muslims

• Citing a Pew poll: “Almost half—44%—of Muslim American respondents expressed a favorable opinion of [Hamas],” a striking normalization compared to other U.S. religious groups (John, 24:21).
• “If half the Muslim American population in the United States actively supports a movement to kill my people, they are my enemy” (John, 33:17).

Islamic Radicalism’s Alliance with the Left

• Andy McCarthy: Deep ties between Islamist organizations and the far left of the Democratic Party since 1970s; surge in campus pro-Hamas activism after October 7 traced to this alliance (Eliana, 26:45).
• Expansion of influence: “The party is now poised to get 4, 5, 6 more members [with radical Islamist ties]… Democratic leaders are standing by and saying nothing” (Eliana, 27:18).

Shifts in Assimilation and Mainstreaming Radical Views

• Abe laments: “It was always a point of pride to say… Muslim immigrants by and large do not support radicalism—but whatever the actual figure is, the fact that they are so completely… comfortable [now] shows the degree to which this has been so completely normalized by non-Muslim leftists” (Abe, 28:07).

Distinguishing Hamas from Palestinians—and Losing That Distinction

• “We’re always told that Hamas is not Gaza, Hamas is not a synonym for Palestinians… but everywhere you look, there’s a Hamas or a Hamas-related authority" (Seth, 30:32).
• The U.S. public’s ability to distinguish between Hamas and the broader Palestinian population is eroding, at least in discourse.

Open Radicalism in U.S. Congressional Candidates

• Several Democratic candidates have openly radical records or stances (Eliana, 37:21).
• “They are running as themselves… they can be run against for being themselves” (John, 40:05).
• But counter-narratives, especially those raising concerns about Islamism, are often dismissed as “Islamophobia” in both activist and mainstream Democratic circles (Seth, 40:39).

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3. Crisis of American Patriotism in the Democratic Party

(52:11–55:10)

• Democratic candidates like Haley Stevens avoid direct criticism of El-Sayed for his radical connections, opting for milder contrasts (“I’m a workhorse, he’s a show horse,” 49:10).
• John: A 40-point gap in self-reported patriotism between Republicans and Democrats; “conditional” vs. “unconditional” patriotism.
• “Half of the country, one of the two major political parties, [has] lost their pride and love of country… That’s a terrible thing and very frightening for our future” (John, 52:56).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Hope for the best, expect the worst." (John, 00:04 — opening theme, setting the mood of uncertainty)
• On War Powers: “He’s being too clever by half with the pick up the war for four cubits, put it down… Patience is running out that you can feel on the right also, because people really want to know where all this is heading.” (Seth, 06:51)
• On U.S. “Tolling” the Strait: “The United States is not allowed to toll the Strait of Hormuz any more than Iran is allowed… That is bad bad 21st-century, not goodness.” (John, 13:24)
• On Normalization of Hamas Support: “The fact that they are so completely now comfortable… shows the degree to which this has been normalized by non-Muslim leftists.” (Abe, 28:07)
• On Assimilation Breakdown: “It was always a point of pride to say, look, in the US, Muslim immigrants by and large do not support radicalism… that simply was not the case [now].” (Abe, 28:07)
• On Defeating Illusions: “We can’t stand on ceremony any longer. A quarter century after 9/11…” (John, 42:54)
• On Democratic Messaging: “Her message is not, ‘he hates America and I love America.’ She must have concluded that is not compelling for Democratic primary voters.” (Eliana, 49:10)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:43–12:35: U.S. war re-engagement with Iran, sanction policies, Trump’s wavering strategy.
• 13:24–18:37: Panel debates legitimacy and logic of Trump’s tolling policy for the Strait of Hormuz.
• 22:04–27:18: Eliana discusses Abdul El-Sayed and radical Islamist influence in politics.
• 28:07–33:17: Panel discusses Pew data on Hamas support among Muslim Americans and mainstreaming of radicalism.
• 37:21–42:53: Open radicalism and lack of censure in Democratic candidates.
• 52:11–55:10: Crisis of patriotism within the Democratic Party, electorate reactions.
• 55:10–57:10: Closing remarks, listener appreciation, and tribute to Christine Rosen.

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Tone and Language

• The panel is direct, skeptical, frequently sardonic, and pessimistic, with a sense of urgency and frustration over both U.S. foreign and domestic policy drift.
• Language is forthright and sometimes blunt—especially regarding accusations against political figures and discussions of assimilation and radicalism.

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Final Reflection & Recommendation

• The episode ends with a note of gratitude for listener’s appreciation of recently departed panelist Christine Rosen, and a recommendation of her latest book, The Extinction of Experience (55:10).
• “She has to be the Tom Hanks to our Saturday Night Live…” (Seth, 56:51).

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This summary captures the substance and energy of the episode, offering insights for listeners and new audiences alike.

Transcript

[A]

Hope for the best, expect the worst. Some drinks champagne, Some die at first no way of knowing which way it's going. Hope for the best, expect the worst, hope for the best. Welcome to the Commentary magazine daily podcast. Today is Tuesday, July 14, 20, 2026. I'm John Podhoritz, the editor of Commentary magazine. With me, as always, executive editor Abe Greenwald.

[B]

Hi, Abe. Hi, John.

[A]

Senior editor Seth Mandel. Hi, Seth.

[C]

Hi, John.

[A]

And Washington Free Beacon editor Eliana Johnson. Hi, Eliana.

[D]

Hi, John.

[A]

So Donald Trump has formally informed the Congress that America is back at war, thus starting a new 60 day war clock. Not that we were ever not at war, but he is now at war and he is talking very tough. And we are hitting, we're hitting targets. He is now saying that we will blow up Pickaxe Mountain, which is the. How do you describe this? It's the site next to one of the buried nuclear sites where we think that they were digging, they were creating another Dr. Evil like, underground nuclear lair and it can literally be leveled with a bunker buster bomb. And the Iranians are saying if he does that, then it's open season on Americans in the Middle East. So we're back at war. And the issue is Abe's newsletter. Yesterday, which everyone should subscribe to, his daily newsletter, made the point that we talked about yesterday about kind of the eternal return of this, of this strategy where we don't seem to be proceeding on a path to a result. We're just now saying, yes, they violated the ceasefire, we're back, we're not going to let them control the strait, we're going to control the strait. But that's not a strategy and they're not laying out a strategy.

[B]

So, yeah, once again, I don't know what the. Look, if the long term aim is to break the regime by blockading the strait, then that's all we need to know. But I get the sense that there's some short and medium turn plan here or the makings of one, and I don't understand what it is because I still feel as if the right birdie were to whisper into Trump's ear that someone, that the real right person in Tehran wants to talk, we'd be going through this all over again. And that's what disturbs me about the whole thing.

[A]

I mean, I think Jonathan Schanzer and some of our friends would say that we've stumbled into the right policy, which is that the thing I didn't mention is that Trump has reestablished the blockade on Iranian shipping and is doing something to degrade Iran's oil exporting capacity, though we don't quite know what. And he isn't obviously taking the largest measures to do so, which are to hit refineries or Carg island or something like that. But if we are trying, if we are able to spend six months making it impossible for any Iranian ship to get out of the strait and into the open sea. They collected, Aaron McClain says, $4 billion in oil fees during the 30 days that the ceasefire was essentially on, so that those sanctions or whatever, they were lifted. Now they're back on. So they got $4 billion that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. And now we're not going to let them have anything. And that's bad for them. Obviously, though, somehow it just seems like economic penury is not going to be sufficient to get them to somehow say, okay, the jig is up. This is a regime that believes that it has God on its side and that it is the fulfill of one major wing of one of the world's three major religions. And it's not going to say, oh, well, our cash balance is really. We just don't have any money left in our bank account. So, okay, bye. Still, Schanzer and others would say this is the long term way to make life for the regime unsustainable. But you have to do it for a long time. And obviously, since Trump doesn't want to engage in major military action, stumbling backwards into we're choking them off and we are going to escort, we are going to open up the strait. Maybe the right policy, it's just not the, it's not like a killer policy. It's not a we're taking them out policy.

[B]

The thing is, we could have been doing this for a long time already.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that, you know, but Trump was

[A]

talked out of it. Right. I mean, this is the weird thing is he is very influenceable for somebody who's like, he has his own mind and he has his own thing or whatever. You know, the Saudis say, no, we don't like this operation economic freedom thing. And then he stops it right away. Or the Turks say, don't do this and. And he stops doing it because the Turks say it. And now basically he had two options or three options, one of which was with Iran firing on commercial shipping, either to sort of like say, okay, we'll give you more money and so you'll stop, or we're gonna invade Carg island and like go at you, whatever, or do what he is doing now, which is hit certain sites to degrade their ability to fire on ships in the strait and blockade them. And so he has now stopped listening to the people who were telling him he needed to do X, Y and Z to make the ceasefire work, because he no longer believes in the ceasefire. So at least got that going for him or us, which is that we're no longer pretending that the thing to do is to negotiate with the Iranians.

[C]

When I was a kid, we used to try to find ways to get around the, the stricter Jewish laws and the way we got around, you know, in Jewish law you're not, unless you have an Arab, whatever, won't get into it or a fenced in area, you're not allowed to carry on Shabbos. And so the carrying rule is like, you know, four cubits or whatever. And so I remember we, we had this thing where we would, we, we decided that if you carry, if you needed to take something with you, you could carry it for four cubits or whatever it is, put it down on the ground in front of you, take a step forward without it and then pick it up and walk four cubits, holding it again. That's what Trump is doing with the 60 day war powers thing that if you just, you know, put it down for a second and then pick it back up. But obviously it skirts the whole point of, of not just the War Powers resolution, but, but the idea behind it, which has much more support even among Republicans, which is people want the President to address the Congress and the public, explain what he's doing here and, you know, and make the case for it. And so the 60 day trick is not going to make Republicans particularly happy either, I don't think, because although they do want to avoid having some sort of Congress vote on this, or many of them do, they also are nervous about the fact that they have no idea what's going on in the midterms are coming up and all that stuff. So I think that he's being too clever by half with the pick up the war for four cubits, put it down, take a step forward and then pick up the war again and walk again for four cubits. I really think that there's a, there's a lack of, there's a patience running out that you can feel it on the right also, because people really do want to know, even if you, you know, there's broad agreement on the right that Iran is a bad actor, that they're not going to abide by the MoU or that the MoU makes it too easy to abide by and then break whatever it is. But they still want to know what all this means and where all this is heading. And I think. I think with the 60 day trick that he's doing, I think he's underestimating that.

[A]

I mean, the mou, we never need refer to the letters MOU in that sequence ever again. The MOU is done. This is like a breached contract. It's like if you have a contract with someone to buy a house and then you say you don't want to buy the house. It's not like, well, you know what? The contract. The contract is really being frayed. The contract is dead. The MOU is over. We're now in a different period. I suppose there could be new negotiations for a new mou, though I doubt it, given the way Trump is talking. But at the very least, we're now moving beyond this bizarre nether region. And there is one thing to be said, which is that the inflation numbers came out for June and they dropped monthly for the first time since COVID since the sort of end of COVID they dropped like 3.4%. So it's not as though Trump didn't succeed. And that's because gas prices fell. So something beneficial happened, momentarily, at least, to kill the rapidly rising inflation that the war had triggered. That's, of course, evanescent, because inflation can start. Oil prices, they're already up from 65 a barrel to 75 or 80 a barrel just in the last week. So whatever was this follows a similar principle, too.

[E]

No.

[C]

Which is the idea that he can flip the market switch on and off. The market got spooked, prices went up, we'll call a ceasefire or whatever. I'll say something nice about peace and then go back to it. And that's also not really sustainable.

[B]

Yeah, and it all comes at a cost, which is that, as John pointed out, the Iranians got some revenue and they got to dig out some of their missile stocks. So it's not like you get to just keep doing this for free.

[D]

Look, a month ago, six weeks ago, where I thought this was going was Iran controlling and tolling the strait. And Trump appears unwilling to accept that, which I think is an unmitigated good. And that comes after Iran realized that its leverage out of this war was not, in fact, building a nuclear program or its missiles or firing on Israel, but control of the strait. And I don't think it helped that the Israelis apparently apprised Trump that the Iranians attempted to assassinate him. I think that was an impetus for some of this, but I think it is an unmitigated good. Trump doesn't like to be embarrassed and he doesn't like to look weak. And I think he is moving in the right direction by refusing to let the Iranians control the strait. And it is a totally acceptable medium term option between a resumption of all out war and allowing them to violate the MOU with impunity.

[A]

We should talk about the fact that he also announced in this tweet yesterday that we would be taking a levying a surcharge on the shipping going through the strait, essentially that we were going to toll the straight which is insane. And honestly I genuinely, this is where when he does things and you just don't know what game he's playing. Cause you know, Rubio, everybody, the whole thing about what the Iranians did by saying they're going to close the strait or you're going to have to pay them to use the strait was these are international waters. They don't belong to Iran and they're international waters. Therefore they are free. It's free passage for everybody. He is not allowed the United States is not allowed to toll the Strait of Hormuz any more than Iran is allowed to toll the Strait of Hormuz. And whatever trick he thinks he's pulling pulls focus from Iranian bad behavior which is what we should be focusing on because it is the casus belli and it's the reason that we're still at war is to ensure that they give up any hope of controlling this critical economic passageway. Trump asserting that the United States now we're in a world in which tolling narrow canals areas canals are told but I mean controlling narrows is a legitimate form of international endeavor. That not good. That is bad bad 21st century, not goodness. That will be going away very fast.

[B]

But it is a classic sort of Trump thing. He's always looking for okay, where do we get our cut? Right? Whether it's the, you know, Venezuelan oil, you know, or rebuilding contracts or whatever, there's always, you know, there's always something always has to come off for, of, for, for us or for him.

[A]

Well, but even so like it'll be paid in crypto. His cut for what? Right.

[B]

I know.

[D]

Well, this is what is what do

[A]

we deserve a cut?

[D]

This is why I'm less exercised about this. First of all, let's see if it happens at all. But if the US is actually escorting ships through the strait and ensuring freedom of navigation and no other countries are willing to pitch in to do this which thus Far the Europeans have done bupkis then I'm not as exercised about it. I think it's way less important than Trump enforcing the terms of the MoU and insisting that Iran not control it. I just think it's a lower principle.

[A]

But the tolls are being paid by private companies, not by governments.

[C]

I have a better idea.

[A]

They're not owned by Britain and France and everybody that we're mad at that they didn't come and try to keep the straits open. This is, you know, international shipping. That's not, that's not, you know, he's not, he's not punishing NATO for refusing to get involved in the war, you know, and help keep the Straits open. He's basically holding up Maersk or whoever it is that is, that is making these ships go pick things up and drop things off and all of that. So you may not be.

[C]

They should unfreeze Iranian assets and use the unfrozen Iranian assets to pay for whatever they need to pay for.

[A]

See that I would be. That's. Yeah. So, yeah, they're sitting there. We have the Iranian assets, so we should expropriate the Iranian assets. Fine. They're the ones who are prolonging the war. Let them pay for it. The expropriation of the property of the enemy in your own territory during times of war is a perfectly defensible thing in the history of war. If Athens is at war with Sparta and there's some Athenian who owns a house in Sparta, Sparta will take that house. Not that there was. I'm just giving this as a stupid example, but they would take the Athenians house, like, sorry, you're on the losing side and you don't get to own property here in our country. That's why we have frozen Iranian assets or had them, which is. Though we weren't informally in a state of war after the Iranians took the hostages in 1980, we held in massive amounts of. Of their goods as punishment for what they had done to us. And then of course, Obama sent a lot of that in pallets back to Iran. So you're not. So Elian's not concerned. Because the major thing is the important thing, which is that he's like, this is done. We're done with this fantasy.

[D]

Look, I thought we were heading to Iranian control of the strait with the president standing by and letting them toll. So if it's between like two not that great options, which is us tolling and them tolling. I'm for us tolling, you know, not. We don't live in a perfect world. I'm pleased the President has reimposed the blockade and is unwilling to stand by, you know, while they fire on ships and exert control over this waterway. So, you know, I'm happy about that and I'm less exercised about this. In a perfect world, he wouldn't do it.

[A]

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[D]

Yes. So our piece looks a little more deeply into his family and in this case his wife's father in law, who is a man named Tayyeb Jukaku. And El Sayed married into a family of Muslim Indian immigrants. And the father in law is a former president and current board member of CARE Michigan, the Council on American Islamic Relations, which I'm sure many of our listeners are familiar with, and also a member of something called the founding committee of the Islamic Society of North America. Both of those groups were unindicted co conspirators in the landmark 2007 terrorist financing case, the USA versus the Holy Land foundation for Relief and Development, which culminated in the conviction of the Holy Land Foundation's founders for funneling $12 million to Hamas. And the Islamic Society for North America was found to have shared a bank account with the Holy Land foundation where money was being funneled to Hamas. And I think it just underscores how close El Sayed, who has campaigned with Hassan Piker, who has said about the Bloomfield, Michigan, would be bomber that hurt people, hurt people is to Islamic radicalism. I had called up our friend Andy McCarthy, who wrote the book the Grand Jihad and knows maybe more than anybody else about the Muslim Brotherhood and Muslim radicalism in America. You know, both of these groups are Islamic front groups who underscored that, you know, just how radical these groups are and how close this guy is. And the prospect, I think this is the Senate version essentially of Adam Hammawi and his congressional campaign in New Jersey. He represents the prospect of real Islamic radicalism entering the U.S. senate.

[A]

You know, Abe flagged this pretty horrifying story the New York Post Published 4 days ago Based on a Pew survey that indicates the degree of the problem that is represented that Abdullah said and Adam Hammawi and Zoram Mamdani are not, unfortunately, what one would have hoped they were. Which is outliers in that the Muslim populations in the United States are, have assimilated or are assimilators the way other ethnic populations who have come into the country in the last hundred years have been assimilators and end up having opinions that are within the mainstream of American society and that reflect their acceptance of core American values over values from the countries from which they came. According to this survey, almost half of Muslim Americans Support Hamas. Almost half, 44% of Muslim American respondents expressed a favorable opinion of the terror group, compared to 17% of black Protestants, just 4% of white evangelical Protestants, and 8% of Catholics. So 44% of Muslims openly say they support Hamas. So when we look at Adam Hamawi or we look at Abdul El Sayed or Rashida Tlaib or Ilhan Omar, we are looking at people who are representing, not totally, because 44% isn't 80%, but they are representing a significant body of opinion in a growing American minority. And that body of opinion is supporting a terrorist group that less than three years ago massacred and injured 5,000 people in a single morning. And we saw it happening with video and GoPros and all of that, and that has only made them more popular. So that is. Yeah.

[D]

One of the points Andy made was that since the 1970s, the Muslim extremists have had deep ties to the extreme far left of the Democratic Party. And so when something like October 7th happens and then you see things, you know, tentifadas break out on our college campuses and people say, I don't understand, you know, how could these left wing students on our college campuses be supporting things like this? You know, Andy said, I've been trying to call attention to this for 20 years. These people are working hand in glove with the far left. And then we see Ilhan Omar and Jamal Bowman and whoever else show up and embrace these students they are. And their influence in the party is growing slowly but surely. The party is now poised to get 4, 5, 6 more members. With Darieliza Avila Chevalier, who is a Muslim convert, with Adam Hamaui, with Milad Kiros, the influence is growing and Democratic leaders are standing by and saying nothing.

[B]

You know, 15, 20 years ago, when I would write about this stuff or talk about it, you know, talk about Islamic radicalism in the U.S. and if there would be, you know, riots, you know, somewhere in France or something, and then it was always this sort of like, point of pride to say, as John had alluded to earlier, that look, in the US Muslim immigrants by and large do not support radicalism. I don't remember what the exact figures were, but they weren't 44% in favor back then. There was a reason that I could say that and write that and sort of express that sense of pride in the US Was because that simply was not the case. And whatever the actual figure is, whatever Muslim Americans feel in their heart, the fact that they are so completely now comfortable that any population in the US Would be comfortable saying to a Pew poll that they Support Hamas to 44% shows the degree to which this has been so completely normalized by non Muslim leftists. I mean, just by, you know, by the entire crowd that Eliana's talking about, you know, and when the tentifadas broke out and I would, or we would refer to them as Hamas supporter, Hamas supporting protesters, people would say, oh, come on. See, now I'm not even going to read another word you said, because they're not Hamas supporters. They're against the war. They support Palestinians. Don't tell me that. Now if 44% of Muslim Americans who may or may not appear at those protests are out there saying, yeah, we are Hamas supporters, don't tell me that the mobs waving Hamas flags and wearing Hamas bandanas aren't Hamas supporters.

[C]

Well, some of them chant we support Hamas outside the synagogue in either it was North Jersey or New York, I don't remember which one, but there was a we support Hamas chant. But the other thing that this brings up is we're always being told that Hamas is not Gaza. Hamas is not a synonym for the Palestinians. That, and that's true up to a point, obviously. But as with any government, but the people making excuses for Hamas and the Palestinians set aside for a second the apparently thousands of Palestinian civilians who participated in October 7th. But the excuse makers take that too far in the other direction and pretend that Hamas is some kind of gang living in a cave somewhere. There's all this. There's all the Palestinians in Gaza and then there's like a few guys from Hamas who, who threaten them and make war and go back into their holes. They don't understand the, the way that Hamas has insinuated itself into the, not just the general population, but all the institutions. I mean, I saw a quote from a Gazan the other day who said, you know, the, the chamber of commerce is obviously run by Hamas. And like, to me, I would think that's obvious, but it took a Gazan saying it for people to be like, oh, the Chamber of Commerce, huh? Because literally, you know, it. That's. That's not even true in other countries where you have an over. An over control of the institutions, private and public, and your benefits are coming from Hamas and it trickles down. And, and so you have this problem of separating Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, you know, which is the same type of group. And you know, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, which is a Marxist version of it, but they operate in Gaza also, and they also took hostages, you know, reportedly. And whatever, you start getting into the situation where it's like everywhere you look, there's a Hamas or a Hamas related authority. And so it has had the opposite effect. The defenses of Palestinians in Gaza have whiplashed back on them and made it impossible to distinguish. Now made it impossible for Americans to distinguish because of the way that people defend Hamas.

[A]

But this poll, but this poll suggests that we don't have to distinguish. I mean, again, 44% is not 80%. But let me put it this way. So for 25 years, we're like Islamophobia. Whether or not we think Islamophobia is a problem is something else. But it is an axiom that we are to oppose all forms of hatred, anti Semitism and Islamophobia. Well, if half the Muslim American population in the United States actively supports a movement to kill my people, they are my enemy. And if they made up 10% of the Muslim population, American population in the United States, I would say, look, there are some bad people among American Jews too. And I'm not, you know, I don't want you to hold me responsible for them. And I won't hold you responsible for your bad actors. But if half of you are for

[C]

it, don't blame us for Morris Cass.

[A]

I'm not gonna. It's enough. Yeah, right. But I mean, no, it's like. It's like I'm not going to be constrained with the idea that I can't openly say that person should not be in the House or in the Senate because they are Muslim. I mean, that's the bridge here. The bridge here is they hate Jews, they want to kill Jews. They support movement. They support a movement that has actively sought to murder thousands of Jews. And if that's something that they support, what on earth, what comfort can we take in the idea that they will be constrained by American law not to do it here?

[F]

I started with one shop. No college degree, no big investors. It was just a willingness to work over time. That one shop turned into a multi billion dollar business called Crash Champions. All the lessons I learned along the way came from the grind. And that's what my show Pod Crash is all about. We have real conversations with people who've built things the hard way. We talk to founders, athletes, and blue collar leaders who kept going when things got tough. You'll hear stories of grit, leadership and growth. Plus real world lessons you can take back to your team and your life tomorrow.

[A]

When you get momentum, you step on the gas.

[C]

That's how you get separation from everybody else.

[A]

I was at Harvard Law School. I was blah, blah, blah. I looked up something, tell you something, there's kids in my neighborhood putting in sheetrock that are smarter than you.

[C]

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[A]

It is never gonna disrupt physical blue collar trade skill.

[C]

And the guy just looked at me

[A]

and he said, it's bloody impossible. So I asked him this question. I said, it's impossible.

[F]

Unless that's podcrash with me. Matt Ebert Watch on YouTube and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[E]

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[D]

Well, I'd actually put it a little differently. Not that that's not true, but if you look at Adam Hammawi, who was an associate and defender of the blind, Shake, and who pressed on it today, stands by what he said. He says, you know, he was a member of the community. He did a lot of other things beside besides inspire terrorist terror attacks.

[C]

He was PTA president. Come on, right?

[D]

Abdullah Sayed, who says, you know, he doesn't want to publicly say that he's happy that the Ayatollah is dead, an avowed enemy of the United States. And Melot Quiros, who says the US had nine, 11 coming. These people are enemies of the United States, openly Avowedly. And they are being elevated to some of the most sensitive positions in government.

[A]

I mean, fortunately or unfortunately, there's no

[D]

Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries saying, I am extremely concerned we are going to cut off funds. They're saying that about Graham Platner, for whom two women came forward and said, he raped me. He was violent towards me. But not people who say, I stand by enemies of this country. It's astonishing.

[A]

I mean, see, that's a very important point. And of course, there's a. They get. They don't get a buy or a pass or anything like that. I'm not talking about Schumer. I'm talking about these candidates. They are doing us a weird, evil favor. They are not running under false flag. Right. Zoran Mamdani did not say. I'm not Zoran Mamdani. Adam Hawaii did not say. I, you know, I, I dissociate myself from my.

[D]

It was youthful idiocy. I made a mistake. I was a kid.

[A]

I didn't even say that. Right.

[D]

I'm a patriot.

[A]

Yeah. So he didn't say any of that. And Mil Akiros doesn't say that. And Al Sayed doesn't say that they are running as themselves. And.

[D]

No, he says, AIPAC money. AIPAC money. The Jews control everything.

[A]

Yeah. So therefore,

[D]

when you question me about whether I mourn the Ayatollah, I can't say that because there are so many Muslims in Dearborn who share my sadness that I'm gonna accuse the president of being a pedophile. I'm gonna come out with a load of BS to distract.

[A]

So the point is they are running as themselves. So therefore, they can be run against for being themselves. You know what I mean is

[C]

that, I mean, sorry, just to, To a point. I mean, they can. You could. They can be run against as themselves. Right. Because they have so much institutional support because they're running as themselves. And, and not under false pretense. That's part of the problem.

[D]

Who will come out and run as the pro America candidate?

[C]

And, but also, people like, I see on my feed go by every time Adam Hamawi's name comes up, I just see, like, the Islamophobia is insane. They're. They're, you know, they're. They're accusing this guy of, Of. Of volunteering for an al Qaeda front or whatever. When it's like, here's the, you know, here's the. Him volunteering for an al Qaeda front. Like, what do you want me to do? I Didn't send him to the Balkans. You know, like, it's just, it is what it is. And these guys are running that way. And the, the, the accuse. It's being taken as an accusation. Oh, we assume because he's Muslim, he must be part of Al Qaeda. And it's like he, he made a choice. The guy who testified on behalf of the blind, she testified on behalf of the blind sheik. Democrats don't include that in the picture at all.

[A]

Okay, Democrat, here's, here's where I was going with this. Assuming El. Let's assume El Sayed wins the primary. So Milad Quiros. El Sayed. Dariel is a Chevalier and Adam.

[D]

Claire Valdez.

[A]

Claire Valdez, right. They're all running. They're presumably going to win. They're validated. Like, this is how we work in our system. It's not that they're being elevated by the council, by care. They are going before the American voter. The American voter will have them on the ballot against somebody else whom they're running against and will presumably choose them. And they will then serve in the U.S. house and maybe in the U.S. senate. And it's open warfare time. I'm sorry, they get there and who they are and what they stand for. Niceties. And the idea that we should unilaterally disarm against these enemies of the United States and not call them by their names, that has been sort of like the social norm since 9, 11. And George W. Bush saying, this is not a war on Islam.

[D]

It's a religion of peace.

[A]

That's a religion of peace. We are against Islamic fundamentalism, Islamic totalitarianism, which I still believe to be true, because, like, we're not at war with Indonesia. Indonesia is the most populous Muslim country in the world. We don't, you know, Indonesia isn't giving us any, any trouble. Somalia giving us trouble. Somalia gave us trouble when we took in 250,000 Somalis because of the civil war. There's. But not Indonesia. Right. But we can't stand on ceremony any longer. A quarter century after 9, 11. And the one time in our public life that somebody violated this protocol, really openly violated this protocol, was Trump at the end of 2015. Right. He said, we gotta put a halt to all emigrations from these countries until we can find out what the hell is going on. After the Pulse shooting and the San Bernardino Christmas shoot up at the Christmas party in San Bernardino. And remember, the Pope attacked Trump. The Pope took a political position about Trump's views on these matters. And it was thought that Trump had, like, crossed an incredible boundary. And that was 10 years ago. He did win the presidency without ever. Not only without saying, I'm moving on from that view, but then very, very incompetently attempting to put it into practice in the first week of his first term of the presidency. If you remember the travel moratoria that he put in place from eight Muslim countries and the riots and scenes at airport, the demonstrations at airports that prefigured the demonstrations at ice, you know, at sort of ICE facilities after he made that, you know, made that stand. So the American people have actually kind of already shown, 10 years ago, showed that this was something that they were interested in hearing about. And if we have politicians who are openly going to adopt and praise. How many Americans died as a result of October 7th? Was it 6? I think 6American citizens and hundreds of American citizens were interplayed.

[C]

No, I think it's like two or three dozen.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Were killed on Americans who were killed.

[A]

Right. And there were six or eight American hostages in the tunnels. These people killed Americans, took Americans hostage. You know, Lindsey Graham just died. Right. One of Lindsey Graham's major legislative accomplishments was something called the Taylor Force Act. Taylor Force was an American serviceman who was in Israel jogging in Tel Aviv and was assassinated.

[C]

Sorry. The State Department says 46.

[A]

46. Thank you. So, I mean, I'm way under. Right. And so in 2011, Taylor Force jogging along the. Along the Med in Tel Aviv, was murdered, assassinated, taken out. And there is legislation to punish because the idea was that the person who was arrested for doing it, his family then got special pay and benefits in what we call pay or slay. Right. The Palestinian Authority giving money to Palestinian terrorists who go to jails, giving it to their families to support them while the terrorists are in Israeli jails. And the Taylor Force act was a means of punishing them for doing this. And that's the way it should be. And they're going to do whatever it is that they're going to do to defend or advance the interests of Hamas and these groups. And that means we can't pretend we're not allowed to talk about who they are and what they want. And we're not. We haven't. I mean, people do, but there is still this kind of, like, barrier, which is, of course, I'm not attacking all Muslims. Well, okay, fine. I'm not attacking. I will, however, be happy to attack 44% of Muslim Americans and say, you're pieces of shit, you're garbage. You love terrorists, and you're my enemy. And you're America's enemy. And I will do everything in my power legally to stop you from having influence or from getting anywhere near my children. I don't know what else to say. Like Abdul El Sayed, father in law, was a material participant in supporting Hamas illegally, was against the US Law to send money to Hamas, and he was part of a crew that did so. So thanks for publishing that story. I hope it makes some kind of a difference. Although having seen this horrible, horrible piece of footage of Haley Stevens, his great rival, trying to rally her supporters in Michigan yesterday, sounding like Minnie Mouse was extremely

[C]

enthusiastic and filled with joy.

[A]

She said she was filled with joy. Like she had just inhaled helium and said she was filled with joy. I mean, as Eliana has been saying, she does not have the political talent that had. And boy, do I now understand that in, in spades, in a way that I didn't yesterday.

[D]

There's a delivery problem that you can see in that video, but I think there's also a message problem. And, you know, I watched the primary debate, which was a week ago, last Tuesday, and her message, which should be, you know, fine, but just isn't. It wouldn't be compelling to me if I were in Michigan, is, he's a show horse and I'm a workhorse. And instead, it really should be, not only is he a show horse, he's a show horse for the wrong damn things. And, you know, and what is she a workhorse for? You know, she's trying to say she's a workhorse for the people of Michigan. Her message is not he hates America and I love America. No, it's not that. It's not, you know, he wasn't sad the ayatollah died and I was. She must have concluded that is not compelling for Democratic primary voters. But it just, not only is the delivery botched, but it's delivering a bad message. And just like Janet Mills, again, this is Schumer's handpicked candidate. Very depressing.

[A]

I mean, the problem.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I think the messaging is what you said before, which is she. Democrats in Michigan don't want to hear that she considers it bad that El Sayed has these feelings about Americans. That's a huge problem. And so it's, it's, to me, yeah. Like, the messaging would be much easier. And I, and I think that's why El Sayed and I do think Democrats realize this is weaker in a general election than he looks right now with the momentum, precisely because the attacks on him and the criticism of him is going to be of a, of a totally different camp. Right? I mean, he's, he's going to face the, you know, that curse. But at the same time, I will say that people are getting mailers in Michigan telling them that El Sayed, you know, equivocated on the terror attack in Bloomfield and stuff like that. So there is, while that's, while that's not directly her campaign message, it's part of the message that voters are being given on her behalf and they are hearing some of it. But I do think generally speaking, you're gonna have to wait till the general election to hear that in, you know, in the kind of volume that would make a real difference. And I do think it would make a real difference. But I am nervous about the fact that whatever happens in this election, she has concluded that it won't make much of a difference in Michigan, which is a, you know, which is a, you know, has in recent years been a swing state.

[A]

I mean, the thing about Haley Stevens and saying I'm a workhorse and not a show horse and not going at El Sayed for being supporting enemies of the United States, that goes to a crisis in the Democratic Party regarding how Democrats feel about the United States. And I'm not, again, not now talking about Democratic elites. I'm talking about what polling says about Democrats nationwide in which we have a 40 point gap, almost a 40 point gap between Republicans and Democrats on Republicans saying that they're patriotic versus Democrats saying that they're patriotic. 96%, according to YouGov, of Republicans say that they unconditionally support America and are patriotic. And 58% of Democrats say that they are patriotic. And the younger you get, the worse it gets. And my presumption is that you therefore have the most engaged part of the Democratic primary electorate. If you're Haley Stevens and spending a lot of money on polling is like, I don't like America. A lot of them don't like America and they don't want you saying this guy doesn't like America because. Or they'll be perfectly happy to hear Haley Stevens say Abdul El Sayed doesn't like America cuz that's how they feel. And therefore they're gonna vote for him rather than vote for somebody who expresses a patriotic message. That's the other crisis is the crisis, the Democratic conditionality on how they feel about the United States when they're not in power and when they're not in power and when their person is not president, they don't like America and This is now, this is a fact that dates back since the 60s. Republicans and conservatives are American patriots, and Democrats and liberals are conditional patriots based on how much of their views are reflected in policy at the present moment. And so Haley Stevens is operating in that atmosphere. I wish it were not so. I deeply wish it were not so. The last thing I want is for half of the country, one of the two major political parties, to have lost their pride and love of country and patriotism and belief in America. That's a terrible thing and very frightening and bad for our future. But that's where we are in July of 2026, as we say. It's not good. Do we have anything good to say about anything before we.

[C]

I would say, yeah, actually, I wanted to say that I just to our listeners. I just thought it was very nice, the, the messages that we've been getting about missing Christine and saying farewell to Christine on the podcast. I thought that was very nice. And we appreciate that because it does make us feel like, you know, we talk to you every day and we're there and you're, you know, either in your living rooms or your cars or wherever it is, you know, on your jogs or whatever it is that you listen. And so it's, you know, it's. While it's sad that she's leaving, obviously, it is nice to get those notes about how much people care and how much it makes individually on this podcast, how much it makes a difference to people, how much of a connection they

[A]

feel like they have and it's worth therefore making a recommendation today of Christine's latest book, or the book she published last year, the Extinction of Experience, which is about the nature, how the. The Internet age is deforming our understanding of reality and placing barriers between us and lived life in three dimensions in the air with other people right in front of us, rather than mediated through screens. It's a very important, very profound book. That's Christine Rosen's the Extinction of Experience. Remember, she is still. She will still be contributing to commentary, and we hope she'll come visit us every once in a while and bring her own brand of crushing morosity.

[C]

I told her she has to be, based on the reaction to her leaving. She has to be the Tom Hanks to our Saturday Night Live. She has to be in, like, the rarefied air of someone who guests hosts so much that you don't remember that they're not technically on staff anyway.

[A]

Okay, well, we'll be back tomorrow. For Abe, Seth and Eliana, I'm John Podhoritz keep the candle burning.