The Commentary Magazine Podcast
Episode: Who Are the 'Palestine Firsters'?
Date: December 16, 2025
Host: John Podhoretz
Panelists: Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Christine Rosen
Guest: Eli Lake
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into the terminology, history, and implications of the so-called "Palestine Firsters"—a term coined in a major article by contributing editor Eli Lake (January 2026 Commentary). The panel unpacks the ideological roots of this worldview, connects it to contemporary policy debates and incidents of antisemitism, and ties it to a broader critique of U.S. foreign policy realism and anti-Israel sentiment across the political spectrum. The conversation is timely, responding to a spate of recent antisemitic incidents, and seeks to put current discourse into wider historical and intellectual context.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Context: Rising Antisemitism and Political Change in NYC
- Opening remarks recount a recent antisemitic attack on Chabad members performing Hanukkah songs in the NYC subway, paralleling upbeat public Hanukkah celebrations witnessed by the host the same night.
- Concerns expressed about Zoran Mamdani's upcoming mayoralty in NYC and the appointment of Ramzi Qasem, a lawyer with a controversial past, to a potential chief counsel role ([02:50]–[07:10]).
Quote:
"[In Israel]...this attack on the subway was the top thing trending in Israel, at least on my feed."
— Seth Mandel ([07:10])
2. "Palestine Firsters": Defining the Term
- Eli Lake explains: The term "Palestine Firsters" is an inversion of the "Israel Firsters" accusation (used by Pat Buchanan in 1990) and is meant to describe those who prioritize Palestinian statehood and grievances over America's core interests, sometimes disregarding realities or U.S. alliances ([11:39]–[18:17]).
- Eli Lake highlights contemporary figures, especially Ben Rhodes, as exemplifying this view by calling for U.S. support of a Palestinian state or pressure on Israel without preconditions (such as hostages being freed or Hamas disarmed).
Quote:
"If your definition of America's national interest is that America should support the creation of a Palestinian state… even before the last hostages were returned, before Hamas had disarmed... How are you defining America's national interest?"
— Eli Lake ([13:30])
3. The Realist vs. Ideologue Foreign Policy Debate
- Lake and the panel argue that traditional "realist" arguments for downgrading U.S.-Israel relations are now outdated.
- Citing the Abraham Accords and Israel's operational successes against common enemies (Iran, Hezbollah, Houthis), the panel asserts that supporting Israel is more aligned with U.S. interests than ever ([15:30]–[18:17], [36:57]–[40:46]).
Quote:
"In any understanding, classical understanding of the pursuit of our national interest, [Israel is] helpful and the other nations are not. So if you’re still going with that, then you’re not a realist anymore. You are an ideologue, anti-Zionist."
— John Podhoretz ([39:56])
4. Intellectual & Political History of "Israel Lobby" Claims
- Christine Rosen spotlights the evolution of anti-neocon and "Israel lobby" critiques, noting coded rhetoric from establishment figures (e.g., Barack Obama's selection of Jewish officials for criticism) ([21:20]–[22:37]).
- Eli Lake and John Podhoretz point out historical inaccuracies in blaming the Israel lobby for wars like Iraq, noting that top Israeli officials were not pro-Iraq War ([24:07]–[26:17], [26:20]–[27:28]).
Quote:
"The madness of the Israel first claim and its factitiousness begins at the very beginning. Israel was not a major force in the war to dislodge Saddam Hussein from Kuwait… the U.S. forbade Israel from retaliating."
— John Podhoretz ([24:07])
5. Historical Roots: From America First to Today
- Panel draws a direct line from WWII-era antisemitic claims (Father Coughlin, America First Committee, the Bund) to modern accusations of dual loyalty ([27:28]–[28:29]).
- Pat Buchanan is discussed as both inheritor and transmitter of this rhetorical tradition.
Quote:
"You’re dating back there nine decades to explain the origins of this."
— John Podhoretz ([28:29])
6. Contradictions & Harm in "Palestine First" Policy
- Panel argues that "Palestine Firsters" do not, in effect, help Palestinians:
- They ignore Hamas’ agency and atrocities.
- Call for ceasefires that maintain Hamas rule and lead to further suffering for Palestinian civilians ([29:10]–[32:15]).
- The Abraham Accords are cited as debunking the "ignoring the Palestinians" critique—they actually prevented West Bank annexation.
Quote:
"If you were Palestine first, you would presumably be taking actions that would help Palestinians, but every single time they choose the opposite."
— Seth Mandel ([29:10])
- Christine Rosen notes the "colonialist" mindset: treating Palestinians as passive, erasing Hamas agency ([32:15]–[33:20]).
Quote:
"Their mindset towards the Palestinian people... is actually quite colonialist. It's very old school. These passive people who have no choice to make in their future and who we just have to treat like helpless children."
— Christine Rosen ([32:56])
7. The New Place of Israel in U.S. National Interest
- The argument is made that, contra the "realist" critique, in 2025, Israel is the main regional partner advancing U.S. interests by containing Iran and targeting America's enemies ([36:57]–[41:35]).
Quote:
"They’re still taking people off America’s Most Wanted list to this day… the consequences for attacking America are carried out by Israel. How could you ask for a better friend?"
— Seth Mandel ([40:46])
8. Crank Intellectuals and the Legacy of Mearsheimer
- John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt’s influence is criticized harshly, both for their academic work and current conspiratorial positions, including the assertion that October 7 was a "false flag" ([41:35]–[44:04]).
- Mearsheimer is painted as a lifelong crank whose ideas have newly resonated with radicalized youth.
Quote:
"So if you think that he wasn’t always a crank, he was always a crank… If you didn’t think that… repugnant blood libel, antisemitism… was somehow a new thing for Mearsheimer, who is a noxious and dangerous thinker with horrible ideas, and he has been for five decades now."
— John Podhoretz ([47:42])
9. Closing Segment: Reflections on Addiction and Policy (Non-core topic)
- Toward the end, the panel takes a detour to discuss the news of Rob Reiner’s murder by his son, using this tragedy as a lens for analyzing drug addiction, failures of public policy, the opioid/fentanyl crisis, and the role of therapeutic programs ([50:31]–[64:32]).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the shift in the Middle East:
"The Arab regimes are now wanting to normalize relations with Israel before there is a Palestinian state. So it makes even less sense."
— Eli Lake ([16:50]) -
On anti-Israel obsession:
"What the Palestine Firsters really are, are Israel obsessives. And it is about punishing Israel, Stop restraining Israel and the American relationship with it."
— Abe Greenwald ([34:31]) -
On realism gone ideological:
"If you’re still going with that, then you’re not a realist anymore. You are an ideologue, anti-Zionist."
— John Podhoretz ([39:56])
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Antisemitic incidents and NYC politics: [01:22]–[07:10]
- Food appropriation, Ramzi Qasem letter: [08:08]–[10:57]
- Defining ‘Palestine Firsters’ (Eli Lake): [11:07]–[18:17]
- Intellectual history, Obama & 'Israel Lobby': [21:20]–[24:07]
- Debunking Israel Lobby war claims, Gulf War: [24:07]–[28:29]
- Roots of dual loyalty accusations: [27:28]–[29:10]
- Abraham Accords/pro-palestinian policy contradictions: [29:10]–[33:20]
- Soft bigotry and the colonialist mindset: [32:15]–[34:28]
- Cranking up to modern anti-Israel intellectuals: [41:35]–[49:36]
- Discussion on the murder of Rob Reiner and addiction: [50:31]–[64:32]
- Wrap-up and upcoming features: [64:32]–[end]
Final Thoughts
This episode offers a robust, critical appraisal of the "Palestine First" position emerging in elite, academic, and media circles, situates recent policy debates and activism in a longstanding ideological lineage, and pushes back forcefully against contemporary and historical accusations levied at American Jews and supporters of Israel. With its combination of intellectual history, policy debate, and pointed takedowns, it provides a comprehensive primer for understanding evolving divisions on Israel and the Middle East in American politics today.