The Commentary Magazine Podcast — "Who's Being Isolated?"

Date: November 17, 2025
Panelists: John Podhoretz (Host, Editor of Commentary Magazine), Abe Greenwald (Executive Editor), Seth Mandel (Senior Editor), Jamie Kirchick (Journalist, Axel Springer, Guest)

Overview

This episode dives into the right’s evolving relationship with American foreign policy, anti-Semitism, the legacy of Pat Buchanan and the American Conservative magazine, and recent turmoil at the Heritage Foundation involving Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes, and issues of antisemitism on the right. The discussion centers on the interplay between isolationism, conspiracy theories about Jewish influence, and realignment within conservative institutions.

Key Discussion Points

1. The December Issue of Commentary & Cover Stories (02:24–07:05)

• Hillel in Crisis: John Podhoretz introduces the December Commentary cover story, discussing the Hillel organization’s failings on U.S. college campuses, especially amid rising anti-Semitism post-October 7th. (02:24–04:43)
• Jamie Kirchick’s Feature (“Neither American nor Conservative”): A major article investigating the ideology and direction of The American Conservative magazine, its campaign to honor Pat Buchanan, and its implications for the conservative movement. (04:43–07:05)

2. Buchanan's Legacy & The American Conservative's Isolationism (07:05–16:17)

• Buchananism Today:
  • Pat Buchanan’s foundational role in The American Conservative and its ongoing ideological campaign to win him the Presidential Medal of Freedom (07:05–07:50).
  • Core Buchanan Themes: Immigration restrictionism, protectionist trade policies, and above all, an isolationist foreign policy marked by anti-Israel and, at times, anti-Semitic rhetoric (07:50–10:39).
  • Trump’s partial adoption of Buchanan’s platform—especially on immigration and trade—but clear divergence on matters such as Israel and military build-up.
    • Jamie Kirchick: “There’s this third issue of foreign policy where I think there’s actually a large gap between the Buchananites and Trump… The Buchananites are obviously basically isolationists. They want a much smaller military footprint, extremely anti Israel to an obsessive and if not anti Semitic degree. Trump, on the other hand, is really none of those things.” (09:20)
• Trump and the Buchananites’ Disappointment: Despite initial MAGA enthusiasm, Trump’s pro-Israel moves and military assertiveness left isolationists dismayed (10:39–10:49).

3. Anti-Semitism and Conspiracy in Isolationist Thought (16:17–22:31)

• Isolationism’s Inherent Trap:
  • Jamie Kirchick: “Being an isolationist in the American context… almost inherently, almost not always, you’re going to become an antisemite, because there’s no other way for those people to explain… why does the America have this global role? …[They think it’s] some sick and twisted, highly moneyed and influential, manipulative lobby in the United States [i.e., Jews].” (16:20)
• Relitigating World War II:
  • Persistent themes on the right rewriting U.S. entry into WWII as a mistake orchestrated by “the Jews and their allies,” echoing Coughlin-era rhetoric and resurrecting Buchanan’s book “Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War.” (18:13–22:31)
    • John Podhoretz recalls an early 1946 film scene that mirrored present-day revisionism: “We fought on the wrong side. We should have fought the commies and not the Nazis…” (18:24)
• The Eternal Scapegoat:
  • Panel lists the myriad foreign policy crises (Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine) that anti-interventionists always attribute to Jewish, and specifically Israeli, influence—often contrary to the factual positions of American and Israeli policymakers. (15:04–16:17; 27:10–31:49)

4. The American Conservative’s Israel Obsession (16:17–32:41)

• Israel as Fixation and Proxy:
  • American Conservative and kindred isolationist voices consistently fixate on Israel as the crux of American foreign misadventures.
    • John Podhoretz: “The obsession is the point. They are obsessed with Israel in a way that I’m not obsessed with Israel…I do not think that Israel is The number one problem facing the United States, Israel is actually not a problem because Israel does defend itself…” (15:04)
  • This manifests as a refusal to adapt arguments, doubling down when proven wrong; e.g., predictions of disaster for U.S. operations against Iran or Hamas, and ascribing all consequences to Jewish machinations regardless of outcomes. (34:07–35:48)

5. Recent Heritage Foundation / MAGA Turmoil (39:54–49:41)

• The Heritage Foundation’s Crisis:
  • Tucker Carlson’s Nick Fuentes Interview: Heritage president Kevin Roberts, instead of criticizing Carlson for platforming a Nazi, attacked those who criticized Carlson, blaming “a venomous coalition of globalists.” (41:33–41:37)
  • Board Fallout:
    • Princeton’s Robbie George resigns over Heritage’s refusal to retract Roberts’ statement.
      • Robbie George: “What divided us was a difference of opinion about what was required to rectify the mistake.” (45:19)
    • Uncertainty about whether more conservative intellectuals will follow suit, especially Larry Arnn of Hillsdale College. (45:24–47:47)
• Bigger Picture:
  • Heritage’s shift from pro-Israel, “philo-Semitic” bastion to a MAGA-aligned, conspiracy-normalizing institution marks a stark transformation.
  • Jamie Kirchick on conservative silence: “Maybe that’s not true anymore, Right? Like, why is Kevin Roberts still there? Why is Robbie George the only board member to have resigned? Why hasn’t JD Vance weighed in on this? Donald Trump just came out yesterday and said Tucker can interview whoever he wants… I tend to be like Abe. I’m more of a kind of glass half empty guy.” (49:41)
• Trump & Vance’s Evasions:
  • Trump dodges tough questions, signaling that MAGA figures like Vance feel little pressure to address antisemitism on the right. (53:54–54:52)

6. Epstein Files Sideshow (62:25–72:18)

• Trump and the Epstein Files:
  • Trump flip-flops on support for releasing Epstein files, suggesting Congress “vote” but retaining full executive power to release them himself.
  • Theories abound as to Trump’s hesitation—ranging from self-protection to claims (raised by Milo Yiannopoulos) that “maybe Trump was an informant for the FBI,” which in some fever swamps is seen as a MAGA betrayal. (69:05–71:15)
    • Jamie Kirchick: “It’s entirely plausible [Trump was a source]. Now, [Yiannopoulos] might be overestimating the anger that would arise…although, yes, because, you know, that was a different FBI back then…” (70:04)

7. Recommendations (72:18–80:12)

• Death By Lightning (Netflix) and Destiny of the Republic (book by Candice Millard):
  • A four-part series/book about President Garfield’s life and assassination. Themes: corruption, reform, randomness of political fate, how “Guiteau, his assassin, is almost completely forgotten…and really his story is quite remarkable.” (74:51; 80:12)
• Panel celebrates Garfield as “one of the most extraordinary people ever to hold the presidency.” (75:08)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Buchananism’s Enduring Shadow

  “Being an isolationist is almost inherently…anti-Semitic because there’s no other way for those people to explain to themselves, why does the United States have this active global role?” – Jamie Kirchick (16:20)

• On Conservative Revisionism

  “There was a whole body of opinion in the United States even during and right after World War II that said America fought on the wrong side because…Germany had a different view of the Jews from us.” – John Podhoretz (18:24)

• On Heritage’s Institutional Failure

  “There comes a point where you have to put the welfare of the institution above your own selfish interests. And on that score, I’m frankly shocked that he hasn’t left.” – Jamie Kirchick (49:41)

• On Trump & MAGA’s Dodge of Antisemitism

  “Trump just came out yesterday and said Tucker can interview whoever he wants. So…I tend to be…glass half empty…that’s how I see this right now.” – Jamie Kirchick (50:04)

Memorable Moments

• Personal ties and transformations at Heritage:
  John highlights that his mother, Midge Decter, was a long-time Heritage board member and that institution’s drastic change (41:37), underscoring the culture shift in the conservative world.

• Dissecting the absurdity of ‘American wars for Israel’:
  Painstaking discussion about how Israel has been scapegoated for every U.S. intervention, even when evidence points the other way. (31:49–32:41; 35:04–39:10)

• The fever swamp logic around Epstein:
  The podcast’s bemusement at Trump’s performative ambiguity regarding the Epstein files, illuminating both MAGA’s conspiratorial dynamic and Trump’s own tactical slipperiness. (62:25–72:18)

Section Timestamps

• Magazine & Article Introductions: 02:24–07:05
• Buchanan and American Conservative: 07:05–16:17
• Anti-Semitism & Isolationism: 16:17–22:31
• Israel’s Scapegoating in Conservative Discourse: 15:04–32:41
• Heritage Foundation/Tucker Carlson Crisis: 39:54–49:41
• Epstein Files / Trump’s Evasions: 62:25–72:18
• Recommendations (Death by Lightning/Destiny of the Republic): 72:18–80:12

Conclusion

The episode offers a deep, sometimes impassioned, examination of conservative realignment around issues of interventionism, anti-Semitism, and institutional culture as embodied by The American Conservative magazine and the Heritage Foundation. The conversation raises sobering questions: Is isolationist antisemitism now inherent in parts of the right? Can MAGA-era institutions or figures credibly stand against bigotry—or has the tide shifted? The panel is worried, skeptical, and clear-eyed, emphasizing the broader stakes for American conservatism and Jewish life.

Final note: For further reading, see Jamie Kirchick’s article "Neither American nor Conservative" at Commentary.org.