Podcast Summary: "Why Israel Had No Choice But to Win"

The Commentary Magazine Podcast
Date: October 10, 2025
Hosts: John Podhoretz, Abe Greenwald, Seth Mandel, Christine Rosen

Overview

This episode of The Commentary Magazine Podcast digs deep into Israel's recent military actions in Gaza, the implications of the hostages’ release, and the broader moral, psychological, and cultural battles Israel and the Jewish people face—especially in the post-October 7th world. The roundtable addresses not just the military victory but also the ongoing “information war,” the enduring realities of anti-Semitism, and the necessity of Israel’s survival not just for Jews, but as a stand against new forms of global propaganda and ideological inversion.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Emotional and Political Aftermath of Hostage Releases

Timestamps: 02:38–13:55

• Israel's Position in Gaza: As of this episode, Israel controls 58% of Gaza after pulling back to the Trump-plan ceasefire line. The countdown to the hostage release has begun, prompting widespread but complex feelings in Israel.
• Public Reaction: Israeli society is celebrating the hostages’ imminent release, but “the joy... is covering up some kind of vulgar decision that it would be vulgar to celebrate what I'm pretty sure we all agree is an Israeli victory in the two year war” (John, 04:01). There is reluctance, especially among Israel’s political adversaries and in the U.S., to grant this victory to Netanyahu’s government.
• Integration Trauma: The hosts reflect on how hostages will re-enter society, often scarred and changed by their ordeal, and the unique challenge of integrating hostages of all ages, not just soldiers.
  • Notably, Seth describes the intense psychological suffering, referencing Elie Shirabi’s memoir Hostage and relating stories of isolation, fear, and abandonment in captivity (Seth, 08:48–12:39).

2. The West’s (and Media’s) Dehumanization and Moral Evasion

Timestamps: 12:39–19:53

• Hostages as "Leverage”: Outrage is expressed over media language, especially The New York Times, describing hostages as “leverage”:
  • “Human beings should never be leveraged. It's a war crime is what they did… the ideological battle continues in terms of challenging this sort of dehumanization” (Christine, 12:39).
• Pop Culture Analogy: John likens the situation to a cop-movie hostage scene where the moral imperative is to save lives, and there must be no sympathy for the perpetrator (13:55).
• Psyop Victory: The panel agrees that Hamas has won a global psychological war, flipping sympathies dramatically:
  • “Two years ago, Americans sympathized with Israelis over Palestinians by a margin of 48%. Yesterday, Palestinians more sympathetic than Israelis by 1%. That's a 49% shift... an unbelievably successful psychological operation pulled off on behalf of Hamas...” (John, 18:30).

3. The Information War: Victimhood, Social Media, and the Impossible Optics

Timestamps: 19:53–26:05

• Information Manipulation: Social media, especially short-form video (TikTok, Reels), has facilitated and accelerated shifts in global opinion, pushing misinformation and imagery—often AI generated or unverifiable (Christine, 25:05).
• Literacy and Visual Culture: Declining literacy rates compound problems in discerning truth, making societies more vulnerable to visual propaganda as a “weapon of war” (Christine, 25:30).
• Asymmetry and Futility of PR: Israel’s careful, slow responses are always outpaced and outflanked by Hamas's rapid social-media campaigns and by a global environment where “no rapid response would have done the trick anyway. Everything Israel asserts in its defense is jiu Jitsu'd against it” (Abe, 34:41).

4. Moral Nihilism and Policy Paralysis in the West

Timestamps: 26:05–36:04

• Echoes in American Politics: John draws parallels to Trump-era lawfare and the collapse of procedural norms, raising the question of whether “the good guys can win while playing by the rules in a ruleless world.”
• Strategy for Israel: The roundtable agrees: “The way to win the information war is to win the war. That's the ugly way, that's a maddening way, but I don't see any other way about it” (Abe, 34:41).

5. The Arms Race of Accusation and the Roots of Anti-Semitism

Timestamps: 36:04–44:16

• Hamas vs. Israel: Hamas itself publishes videos of its crimes, which are then mirrored with (often fabricated or exaggerated) accusations against Israel—with global audiences always ready to believe Israel worse.
• Classic Anti-Semitism: John contextualizes the current narrative war with references to the Dreyfus Affair and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, noting that “a conspiracy was created to adduce a conspiracy to create antisemitism... This is where we are now” (John, 40:01).
• Statehood as Transformation: The only difference between now and then: the Jewish state. “The fact that Israel just beat the most sustained attack on Jews since the Holocaust makes all the difference in the world” (John, 43:03).

6. Zionism, Jewish Power, and the Liberal Conundrum

Timestamps: 44:16–63:19

• Hannah Arendt’s Warning: John reads an extended passage from Hannah Arendt’s 1948 essay warning that a sovereign Jewish state would become nothing but a militarized fortress, focused solely on survival. The group contrasts this with the reality—Israel, while often under existential threat, is nevertheless culturally vibrant, economically vital, and globally innovative.
  • “It has been a militarized state... and on the other hand, what happened... is a miracle. First of all, first world country that did develop a military, develop what appears now to be the world's best military... [but also] a miracle in economy and culture” (John, 53:00).
• Diaspora Jews and Liberal Guilt: John expresses frustration at American Jews who continue to burden Israel with the responsibility for Gaza’s population, ignoring the reality of Israel’s strategic and humanitarian constraints.
  • “Israel is not responsible for the people of Gaza. Israel left Gaza. Israel is not responsible... If things go really south... Israel will be there for them [diaspora Jews] no matter what they say and no matter what evil theories they are willing to stomach” (John, 66:30).
• Israel’s Diversity vs. Settler Colonialist Slander: The group pushes back on the “settler-colonialist” label, extolling Israel's extraordinary diversity: “It is the most racially diverse place on the planet... this image that people seem to have that Israel is the Upper west side of Manhattan... is so belied by the truth of this absolutely unique place on earth” (John, 63:19).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Hostages & Victory

• John (04:01):
  “The joy at the release of the hostages is covering up some kind of vulgar decision that it would be vulgar to celebrate what I'm pretty sure we all agree is an Israeli victory in the two year war, which people aren't ready to grasp at yet.”

• Seth (12:39):
  “Israel, nobody has ever really had to integrate this many hostages before... It's a whole of society effect that it has had.”

On Dehumanization in Media

• Christine (12:39):
  “I was horrified but not surprised to see the New York Times describe the hostages as leverage... Human beings should never be leveraged. It's a war crime is what they did.”

On Global Opinion Shift

• John (18:30):
  “After the first week of the war in October 2023, Americans sympathized with Israelis over Palestinians by a margin of 48%. Yesterday, Palestinians more sympathetic than Israelis by 1%, meaning there's been a 49% shift... an unbelievably successful psychological operation pulled off on behalf of Hamas.”

On the Information War

• Abe (34:41): “No rapid response would have done the trick anyway... The way to win the information war is to win the war.”

On Old and New Anti-Semitism

• John (40:01):
  “A conspiracy was created to adduce a conspiracy to create antisemitism and an image of Jewish power... This is where we are now.”

• Christine (43:37):
  “The Jewish state must exist because the Jews as a people can never win the information war... But they can win the war and that is the difference.”

On Jewish Strength and Continuity

• John (66:30):
  “Even so... if they need it, Israel will be there for them... Israel will be there for them no matter what they say and no matter what evil theories they are willing to stomach and tolerate.”

Additional Highlights & Recommendations

Israel’s Success Despite All

• Despite relentless attacks, boycotts, and delegitimization, Israel has become a technological and economic powerhouse, a fact not sufficiently acknowledged or appreciated by many in the West (D: 61:41).

Book Recommendation

• Christine recommends:
  The Undiscovered Country by Paul Andrew Hutton—an epic, biographical history of the American West, blending environmental, social, and personal narratives (70:48–73:16).

Conclusion

Final Thought: The episode forcefully argues that, for Israel and the Jewish people, moral clarity, national victory, and the survival of the Jewish state are inseparable. In a world where information wars can invert reality, Israel’s continued resilience and victory—militarily, culturally, and existentially—remains both a practical necessity and a profound moral statement.

Panel:

• John Podhoretz
• Abe Greenwald
• Seth Mandel
• Christine Rosen

For full context and discussion, listen to the episode here.