The Commune – Episode 7: Cherished Ideas

Podcast: The Commune
Host: Stuff Audio (Adam Dudding)
Date: June 5, 2022
Series Theme: Investigating the notorious Centrepoint commune in New Zealand—a focus not on “whodunnit” but “whydunnit,” exploring deeper psychological, social, and philosophical currents behind its ideology and subsequent crimes.

Overview of the Episode’s Main Theme

"Cherished Ideas" examines how dangerous or self-serving ideas were justified and maintained within Centrepoint—particularly around sexual freedom and financial authority. Using firsthand accounts and critical incidents, the episode explores the introduction of controversial academic texts, the community’s rationalizations, the harms caused (especially to children), and the shifting dynamics of power, drugs, and dissent within the commune.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Arrival of a Controversial Book and a Turning Point for Barry

• [00:59–06:33]
  Barry, a long-time Centrepoint member, describes a “life-changing” epiphany after reading Children and Sex: New Findings, New Perspectives (ed. Larry Constantine & Floyd Martenson).
  • Although some used the book to justify sexual acts with children, Barry finds articles in it (notably by Dr. David Finkelhor) that refute these beliefs and outline the actual harm caused to children, especially regarding power imbalances and age gaps.
  • Quote:

    “It elaborated where the harm comes. The bigger the age difference, the more harm, the bigger the power difference that the child can’t say.” —Barry [06:04]

• This pivotal moment challenges the prevailing ideology and deepens Barry’s concerns for children.

2. Rationalization and Cherry-Picking of Academic Sources

• [03:35–06:52]
  The leadership (notably Bert Potter) and upper hierarchy use select parts of academic texts to rationalize their own behaviors, disregarding critical findings that contradict their practices.
  • Barry pushes against these self-serving narratives, emphasizing the need for comprehensive, evidence-based understanding.
  • Quote:

    “A scientific experiment takes in everything. It doesn’t just pick out the bits that suit.” —Barry [06:45]

3. Internal Response: Committees Instead of Justice

• [08:38–09:15]
  Rather than reporting concerns of sexual abuse to authorities, Barry and other women form an internal committee in the hope of supporting impacted children—reflecting both the insularity and denial within the commune.
  • Quote:

    “Any of the children that had concerns could come to us and we would...bring them up in the community.” —Barry [09:02]

4. A Child’s Experience: Nate’s Perspective

• [10:43–14:20]
  Nate’s personal account as a child reveals both Centrepoint’s alluring, adventure-filled aspects (music, freedom) and its neglect. Children had vast freedom, little supervision, and were witnesses to adult self-interest and dysfunction.
  • Quote:

    “I tried to be a good kid and then at one point I stopped giving a fuck.” —Nate [10:43]

  • Fond memories contrast with disturbing exposure to adult misbehavior.

5. The “Benji” Incident: Abuse and the Limits of Commune Justice

• [21:20–29:39]
  The arrival and behavior of “Benji,” a charismatic but predatory adult, exposes both the depth of risk for children and the commune’s insular way of handling abuse:
  • Nate describes waking up to Benji’s hand between his legs and witnessing other boys being abused in the “Turtle Hut.”
  • Other children’s warnings go unheeded, and only after a parent’s intervention is Benji removed—not by police, but via informal exile and a supposed “specialized course.”
  • Memorable exchange:

    “I would do as much as I possibly could to disrupt that. ...I would slam on the side of the hut, I would call him a pedo fuck, I would yell...yet no one listened to me.” —Nate [23:33]
    “Why Benji? ...Why didn’t that happen more often? Because if it had, the story of Centrepoint might have turned out very, very differently...” —Adam Dudding [29:05]

6. Financial Meltdown and Power Struggles

• [15:16–19:29]
  Bert Potter’s risky investments in futures and a goat farm result in catastrophic financial loss ($1.4 million total). Barry confronts Bert, proposing democratized management and a finance committee. For once, her plan passes—revealing both Bert’s dominance and unexpected limits to his authority.
  • Quote:

    “If Bert said that car was white, that car would be white.” —Nate [17:51]

  • Bert throws tantrums and ultimately isolates himself, signaling a shift in power dynamics.

7. Social and Relational Breakdown

• [29:55–31:25]
  Barry’s marriage ends in the context of communal sexual experimentation, bringing personal realization that what she felt wasn't enlightenment but numbness and exhaustion.
  • Quote:

    “Maybe I’m enlightened now. ...Actually, no, this is not enlightenment. I am just numbing, and I’m over it.” —Barry [30:06]

8. The Invasion of Ecstasy and LSD

• [33:42–41:57]
  While drugs were generally discouraged in Centrepoint’s early years, the late 1980s see a flood of ecstasy and LSD, first introduced by a member and enthusiastically embraced by Bert and others. Drug-taking becomes a new form of communal bonding and therapy, further diluting critical thinking and social restraints.
  • Early mass ecstasy events—exclusive, ritualistic gatherings—fostered a euphoric but “mindless” unity under Bert’s direction.
  • Quote:

    “Ecstasy is very euphoric but very mindless. And so all the critique and questionings just went. And just as, oh, we love everybody.” —Barry [38:02]

  • Drugs also provide distraction and another way for Bert to reclaim authority.

9. Police Begin to Investigate Again

• [41:57–43:06]
  Renewed police interest, led by Detective Sergeant Ray Van Bainen, is reignited by reports of increased drug use and insider accounts—suggesting external pressures were again converging on Centrepoint as abuses and excesses continued.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• Barry on the damaging rationalizations:

  “It's not my opinion and it makes sense and everything. All the harm conditions are here and they're happening in front of my eyes.” [07:13]

• Nate’s vigilant resistance:

  “I would slam on the side of the hut, I would call him a pedo fuck...yet no one listened to me.” [23:33]

• Barry on her epiphany:

  “Just an epiphany.” [08:38]

• Adam Dudding on Centrepoint’s broken democratic process:

  “If Bert said that car was white, that car would be white.” —Nate [17:51]
  “All you had to do was say the magic words, Bert says, and people would suddenly agree with you.” [17:53]

• Barry after mass ecstasy event:

  “Ecstasy is very euphoric but very mindless. And so all the critique and questionings just went. And just as, oh, we love everybody.” [38:02]

• Nate on communal neglect:

  “They just...no one seemed to notice. This dude turned up. Everyone thought, oh, he's a really cool guy, he's looking after the kids. What parent does that?” [28:39]

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Content | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------| | 00:59-06:33 | Barry’s epiphany via a controversial book | | 08:38-10:20 | Formation of an internal “child welfare” committee | | 10:43-14:20 | Nate’s childhood memories of life at Centrepoint | | 21:20-29:39 | The “Benji” incident and the community’s response | | 15:16-19:29 | Stock market crash, Barry challenges Bert’s rule | | 29:55-31:25 | Barry’s account of marriage breakdown | | 33:42-41:57 | Drugs take over: rise of ecstasy, LSD, ketamine | | 41:57-43:06 | Police begin a new investigation |

Flow and Tone

The episode flows as an engrossing, sometimes harrowing, oral history—mixing matter-of-fact narrative with moments of raw personal reflection. The speakers, especially Barry and Nate, use clear, sometimes visceral, language. Host Adam Dudding maintains a thoughtful, questioning tone, balancing empathy for individuals with a critical eye on structural failings and dangerous ideologies.

For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

This episode exposes how a community built on “cherished ideas”—about freedom, love, and breaking taboos—rationalized abuse and financial disaster, and how dissent emerged from within. It illustrates the perils of cherry-picking ideology over evidence, the enduring harm to children, and the slow, often faltering, return of reality and accountability.

End of summary