Dan Ives: Still the First Inning for AI

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Compound and Friends

Episode: Dan Ives: Still the First Inning for AI
Release Date: January 31, 2025
Hosts: Downtown Josh Brown, Michael Batnick
Guest: Dan Ives, Managing Director and Senior Equity Research Analyst at Wedbush Securities

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Introduction: Dan Ives Appreciation Day

The episode kicks off with a celebratory tone as Downtown Josh Brown and Michael Batnick introduce Dan Ives, highlighting his extensive experience as a tech equity analyst on Wall Street for over two decades. The hosts express their enthusiasm for having Dan on the show, emphasizing his expertise in the rapidly evolving AI landscape.

Notable Quote:

Josh Brown [00:00]: "Today is Dan Ives Appreciation Day at the compound."

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Deep Seek and Chinese AI Competition

Dan Ives delves into the recent surge in AI developments, particularly focusing on Deep Seek, an AI model that has generated significant buzz. He discusses the timing coinciding with major events like CES in Las Vegas, where Chinese tech players prominently featured, indicating China's strong push in the AI sector.

Notable Quotes:

Dan Ives [00:44]: "There was a lot of Chinese tech players at CES this year."

Josh Brown [01:06]: "It was wise and thought. I felt like Joe was a week before everyone."

Dan emphasizes that the recent AI advancements are a "shot across the bow from Beijing," highlighting geopolitical implications, especially concerning companies like TikTok and ongoing tariff negotiations. He reassures listeners that, despite market fears, AI investment remains robust.

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AI’s Impact on Big Tech and the Stock Market

The conversation shifts to the broader impact of AI on big tech companies and the stock market. Dan underscores that focusing solely on financials misses the transformational potential of AI. He argues that generational tech names thrive by looking beyond near-term numbers to the long-term AI-driven revolution.

Notable Quotes:

Dan Ives [04:04]: "If you just focus on financials and just near term sort of numbers, you've missed out on every transformational tech stock the last 20 years."

Dan Ives [05:23]: "When things are tough and you're going through white knuckle moments in our 25 years, that's how we've separated ourselves."

Dan categorizes the current market turmoil as a "white knuckle weekend," comparable to significant historical market events like Black Monday, but more intense due to fundamental reasons.

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MAG7 Earnings and Valuations

The discussion turns to the MAG7 (a group of top seven tech stocks), examining their earnings growth and valuation multiples. Dan presents a nuanced view, suggesting that despite high forward Price-to-Earnings (PE) ratios, the expected growth justifies these valuations. He believes that the street is underestimating the long-term AI-driven revenue potential.

Notable Quotes:

Dan Ives [29:00]: "My view is double, double."

Josh Brown [40:50]: "Valuation has nothing to do with what's going on because we have chart 8..."

Dan Ives [41:12]: "Numbers are going from 50 cents to $5."

Dan argues that companies like Nvidia and Microsoft are positioned to capitalize on AI, predicting substantial earnings growth that surpasses current market expectations.

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Apple and Meta’s AI Strategies

Dan and the hosts explore how Apple and Meta are navigating the AI revolution. Dan is particularly bullish on Apple, citing its App Store ecosystem and strategic partnerships as key advantages. He contrasts this with Meta's focus on AI-driven services and massive user base, predicting significant monetization opportunities.

Notable Quotes:

Dan Ives [19:59]: "It was a shot across bow from Beijing... AI will benefit Apple because they own the consumer AI revolution."

Josh Brown [21:33]: "They could be building a generative AI app store for Apple in the coming years."

Dan highlights Apple's strategy of integrating AI into its vast ecosystem, enabling developers to build generative AI apps that leverage Apple's hardware and software synergy. Similarly, he praises Meta's ability to monetize its 3.3 billion Daily Active Users (DAUs) through AI-enhanced services.

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Tesla’s AI Ventures: Autonomous Vehicles and Optimus

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Tesla's ambitious AI projects, including autonomous vehicles and the Optimus humanoid robot. Dan discusses Elon Musk's vision of transforming Tesla into a leader not just in electric vehicles (EVs) but also in robotics, predicting that Optimus could surpass the car business in scale.

Notable Quotes:

Dan Ives [55:18]: "Autonomous and robotics will dwarf the EV valuation."

Josh Brown [55:11]: "Elon could basically do whatever he wants now. His earnings were not good."

They debate the feasibility and timing of Tesla's projections, with Dan expressing confidence in Tesla's ability to innovate and scale its AI-driven products despite current financial setbacks.

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Bear Cases and Market Reactions

Dan addresses common bear cases against AI-driven tech investments, such as skepticism about capital expenditures (CapEx) and the sustainability of high valuations. He dismisses concerns about AI models being a fleeting trend, arguing that AI CapEx is firmly entrenched and will drive long-term growth across various sectors.

Notable Quotes:

Dan Ives [37:45]: "The best bear case is having a window where you need SLA use cases to launch killer apps."

Josh Brown [38:15]: "The bear case that I hear most about is there's a warehouse filled with GPUs..."

Dan emphasizes that the bear cases are often based on unrealistic scenarios or misconceptions about AI’s role in corporate strategies. He maintains that real use cases and sustained investment in AI will validate the market's bullish stance.

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Final Thoughts: The Future of AI and Tech Investments

In the concluding segment, Dan reiterates his bullish outlook on the AI revolution, emphasizing the transformative potential of AI in both enterprise and consumer sectors. He anticipates increased market concentration, with leading tech firms expanding their dominance through strategic AI investments and acquisitions. The hosts and Dan also touch upon the importance of understanding the broader ecosystem and the multiplier effect of AI-driven CapEx.

Notable Quotes:

Dan Ives [43:16]: "The first two years of this build out is enterprise AI."

Dan Ives [44:22]: "If you combine your bullishness on these tech names, you have to be bullish on energy as well."

Dan predicts that the AI-driven expansion will lead to significant advancements in areas like autonomous vehicles, robotics, and enterprise solutions, further solidifying the roles of tech giants like Microsoft, Apple, and Nvidia.

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Conclusion: Looking Ahead

The episode wraps up with the hosts and Dan sharing personal interests and future plans, maintaining a light-hearted and engaging atmosphere. Dan mentions his upcoming trip to Asia to gain ground-level insights into tech developments, while Josh and Michael share their own anticipations for upcoming events.

Notable Quote:

Dan Ives [74:32]: "I'm looking forward to that trip because everything we're talking about here, that's feet on the ground."

Closing Remarks: The hosts extend their gratitude to Dan Ives for his insightful analysis and encourage listeners to follow his research for a deeper understanding of the AI-driven tech landscape.

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Key Takeaways:

• AI Continues to Surge: Despite market volatility, AI remains a core growth driver for top tech companies.

• Enterprise vs. Consumer AI: The initial phase focuses on enterprise applications, with consumer AI ecosystems like Apple’s App Store poised for significant expansion.

• Bullish on Big Tech: Companies like Nvidia, Microsoft, Apple, and Meta are well-positioned to capitalize on AI advancements, justifying their high valuations through expected long-term growth.

• Tesla’s Ambitious AI Goals: Tesla’s ventures into autonomous vehicles and humanoid robots highlight the broader AI revolution's potential to redefine industries.

• Market Resilience: Bear cases against AI stocks are often based on misconceptions, as sustained investment and real-world AI applications continue to drive tech market strength.

For a deeper dive into these discussions and more expert insights, listen to the full episode of The Compound and Friends.

Transcript

[Josh Brown]

Today is Dan Ives Appreciation Day at the compound.

[Michael Batnick]

We couldn't have scripted a better time for you to be on the show.

[Josh Brown]

It's crazy.

[Michael Batnick]

Kismet.

[Dan Ives]

I mean, it's just wild the way this. This worked. The timing worked out so off.

[Michael Batnick]

Dude, it's a five, one six.

[Josh Brown]

I want to hear your timeline. Like, when was the first time you got a question about this? Was it before the new year? Okay, so.

[Dan Ives]

Yes.

[Josh Brown]

Didn't the first version kind of dribble out, like December 27th or something?

[Dan Ives]

In late December, we, you know, got questions on it. You know, at ces, there was buzz about it.

[Josh Brown]

Oh, there was?

[Dan Ives]

Yeah. So when I was in Vegas, like, that was a big conversation in terms like Deep Seek. There was a lot of Chinese tech players at CES this year.

[Michael Batnick]

Why are you pointing at me so.

[Dan Ives]

Because.

[Josh Brown]

Because he knows you appreciate that.

[Dan Ives]

Because I know you appreciate that information given, you know, given your tech appreciation.

[Josh Brown]

Status in the Chinese and.

[Dan Ives]

But then really, it started like late last week as more started to come out about Deep Seek. But then the weekend was insane.

[Michael Batnick]

It was wise and thought. Josh is right.

[Josh Brown]

It was wise and thought. I mean, that's. I felt like Joe was a week before everyone. Joe should go. Pointing out that this might have ramifications for the stock market.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah, it was. I mean, look, and clearly on X, there was a lot of questions about it. It was starting to sort of build, but then it was really squirted. Guess what, Andreason, with the whole Sputnik comment. And then remember, like the bears, right? As we always say, the bears that are hibernation mode. Like when things like this happen, they're going to come out in droves. And that's sort of what happened. And then on the weekend, especially with the 6 million, what does this mean for Nvidia? GPUs going into a tech earnings week. Could they lower CapEx? I mean, I probably 50, 60 calls this weekend.

[Michael Batnick]

I'm kind of suspicious in terms of like, when this was the research paper.

[Josh Brown]

Came out during the two hours that TikTok was offline. And I can't help but think that. And I'm not the only person that thinks there's something symbolic in that timing.

[Dan Ives]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Brown]

I mean, and the Chinese love to send signals. And, you know, this was a shot.

[Dan Ives]

Across the bow from Beijing.

[Michael Batnick]

Fortune cookie.

[Dan Ives]

And no, it continues to be our view. It was a shot across bow from Beijing, given where we are with TikTok. ByteDance and I think also just going into this sort of China in terms of tariff negotiations. But Then also you have big tech earnings week. Nervousness was there across the board. And this was kind of like there was gasoline, you know, sort of hay. It hasn't rained in years. And this was kind of like a little spark that obviously started off.

[Josh Brown]

All right, so we're going to get into all this. We're going to debunk all the stuff. We want to hear about everything that you heard. But I just can't help but notice a lot of people have opinions on this. Most of them have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I feel like we're in a moment where it almost doesn't matter. People just feel really comfortable talking about enterprise class AI with, like, literally no. So I noticed that's a really big thing, which makes you even more important because you actually are talking to the companies that are deploying the technology. Okay, so that's really cool. And then I also noticed, though, a lot of people are straddling the fence right now, which we're gonna get your take on also once we start the show. Like, a lot of people are like. Even people in AI are like, Sam Altman's like, yeah, we might bump up some releases because of this. Now he might privately be saying something else. You would know better than I would. But the real people in this business are making noises about the. This, like, being real. So I thought that was. I thought that was interesting. But. So that's why it's so important that we talk to you.

[Michael Batnick]

Dan, can I ask you a question?

[Dan Ives]

Of course.

[Michael Batnick]

Thank you. So when you're like looking at these story companies, right? Cause a lot of it is story. How do you balance the fundamentals of, like, the whole thing versus, like, the actual financials mixed in with the technology? Like the actual. Like, it's a lot.

[Dan Ives]

Look, and we've talked about it here before with you guys a bunch. It's like the generational tech names, I think if you just focus on financials and just near term sort of numbers, you've missed out on every transformational tech stock the last 20 years. Right. I mean, that. That's sort of always been our view. I think here. It's also why we spend so much time talking to AI, regardless where they are in the ecosystem, tech companies around the world, to understand, like, what's real.

[Josh Brown]

What'S not, you need the mosaic, you need all the tiles where everyone stands.

[Dan Ives]

But I always say, look, 3 million air miles later, right? Part of how I've done it. You can't call these on Metro north in your Peter Millar vest just cause you can't see it in the spreadsheet. So I think many have missed so many of these stories because they're not doing the work they fear into this whole black swan narratives. This is it. What can happen. I feel like when you do the work across the ecosystem, okay, regardless who you're talking to, you feel like you have the confidence to actually to guide others through times like this. Because I always say, like, when things are going up and to the right, my shih tzu or terrier can do that.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah. When you're right, you're just another person.

[Dan Ives]

You're just another one. This party line. When things are tough and you're going through white knuckle moments in our 25 years, that's how we've separated ourselves.

[Michael Batnick]

Was this a white knuckle weekend?

[Dan Ives]

This is a white knuckle weekend.

[Michael Batnick]

Are you shook?

[Dan Ives]

Not at all. I mean, if I was, I'd be wearing like Eddie Bauer sweatshirt or something. Yeah, I liked it.

[Josh Brown]

But also his suit and tie I'd.

[Dan Ives]

Be wearing, I'd be wearing. I'd be wearing a suit.

[Josh Brown]

If you ever come in here, a.

[Michael Batnick]

Suit and tie, everything, it's over, dude. No, that's the bottom.

[Josh Brown]

Oh, that's the bottom.

[Dan Ives]

Imagine I came in here with like a Brooks Brothers bag and all of a sudden I'm like, look, man, valuations. And I'm like just talking dcf. That would be pretty negative.

[Josh Brown]

So, so wait, wait. So when you say this is white knuckle, what would you put this on a par with in like the last 10 years?

[Dan Ives]

I would put it on par with from a white knuckle being in Tokyo, Black Monday and just going through that. Oh yeah. So I put probably above that because of the fundamental reasons.

[Michael Batnick]

Wait, like 1987.

[Dan Ives]

No, in terms of, in terms of.

[Josh Brown]

Last year, when was the one? Was the.

[Michael Batnick]

Yeah, that was August.

[Dan Ives]

No, in terms of August.

[Josh Brown]

Oh.

[Michael Batnick]

I was like, what?

[Dan Ives]

So in terms of August being in Tokyo when that happened, that was probably like. I would put that in like a top five in the last like few years.

[Michael Batnick]

But what about like in the ten year old world?

[Dan Ives]

But, but I would probably put this along with some of those Covid moments in terms of March 2020. In terms of just navigating investors through. I put it in that level of a moment relative to like a fear.

[Josh Brown]

Level, that degree of unknown, but to.

[Dan Ives]

That unknown and just to like there's so many investors, like institutionally where you never hear from them. They're human voicemails when they call you on your cell on a Sunday. That's ultimately, that's where you sort of earn your value and. But we don't just sit there taking sort of deep seeking, giving our own sort of view of it. We talk to, I probably say like 30, 40 within the industry, whether it's CIOs, CEO, big tech companies, AI engineers around the world. Because for. But for me, it's trying to understand what's real, what's not. So it's like 6 million not using Nvidia hardware. Fictional. It's like I've said better chance me line, I'm the Saquon super bowl. That's that. So I right away I took that off.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah.

[Dan Ives]

Was this a great model, A great LLM? No doubt. But the reality is it's similar to our view of, of AI. There's no less GPUs that are going to be used because of Deep Seek.

[Josh Brown]

But do you know why a lot of people were panicking? Not even because the investment implications, the geopolitical implications. Wait a minute. China has AI. And somebody like Andreessen correctly points out, forget about how many GPUs, it is a Sputnik moment, because Sputnik is what forced us to go land something on the moon. Like you could like. So you could say like this might be the most bullish development for AI ever, that we now are in a bipolar kind of AI race. Granted we're probably kicking their asses, but up until last week, who is our competitor in AI? The French? Nobody.

[Dan Ives]

But I also think that the market has overly discounted and I think even see in China Tech just the view of China Tech in AI. Now US is way ahead of China Tech. But as someone that goes to the region four or five times a year, I mean to just say that they're out of it is the wrong move because. But it's also, it's my view of globally where this is all going physical AI in terms of autonomous, in terms of robotics. Jensen will be the first one to tell you, I might say what 20% of the companies that I met at CES were ultimately China tech companies. This is not a bad thing because ultimately, whether it's Jevons Paradox or however you want to think about it, the cheaper that models are, whether it's Deep Seek, Dan Batnik, whatever it may be, that's just more and more bullish for use cases, software and ultimately the use cases as they actually play out. But for every, for anyone to actually think that like capex is going to dramatically change the they're doing something that we haven't focused on. I know tech companies the last month have had war rooms looking at the model, dissecting it, and basically the view is like you talked about. It's viewed as a great model, but I think internally they viewed this much more like, okay, we got some competition. Regardless how they did it, that's a good thing. I never felt that this was something where it's like, oh, my. This is like, this could be dramatically changed the whole industry.

[Josh Brown]

All right, so your first blush was, yeah, of course they're making their own LLMs. Okay, I think that's the right stance. But then as the weekend progressed and you had conversations, you became even more emboldened in that field.

[Dan Ives]

By Sunday night, like, literally, like, as the Eagles are, I'm just like, as NFL games are going on, like, I felt like by the time the Kansas City game ended, I'm like, okay, we got like, our thesis here is pretty emboldened. So when I put note out on Monday morning and basically just, you know, go out there and handhold everyone, I felt like we did so much due diligence that it was something where, like, investors sort of navigate in the storm, being like, look, this is not some black swan, the end of the dot com bubble. To some extent, it's actually more bullish. And I think what you're going to hear from tech earnings, I think you heard from Meta, Microsoft, others, they're not pulling back. They double down, Abel. Yeah, double down.65 billion. Because also a lot of these cap.

[Josh Brown]

Let's start the show. Let's start the show. And John, Click. Jon, play us. Play us in, so to speak. All right, dude, I almost forgot to start the show. It's crazy, right?

[Michael Batnick]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop the clock. Here's a word from our sponsor.

[Josh Brown]

All right, Mother. If you're serious about investing, you need to know about public.com. that's where you can invest in everything. Stocks, options, bonds, crypto. You can even earn some of the highest yields in the industry, like the 6% or higher yield you could lock in with a bond account. Public is a FINRA registered SIPC insured platform that takes your investments as seriously as you do. This has been paid for by Public Investing. Full disclosures and podcast disclosures. Description. Go to public.com compound to learn more. Welcome to the Compound and friends. All opinions expressed by Josh Brown, Michael Batnick and their castmates are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of Redholtz Wealth Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of Ritholtz Wealth Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Dan Ives Appreciation Day here at the compound. Dan is a longtime friend of the show, one of the most requested repeat guests in compound history. The audience loves to learn from him. We love true who dress like him. Got Rob Passarella and his son Khan in the house. Budding equity analyst in training, right? All right, you're about to watch a master at work. Nicole is here, Duncan is here, John is here. Shout out to everyone who is listening to the show for the first time. My name is Downtown Josh Brown here as always with my co host, Mr. Michael Batnik. Give it up. Hello.

[Michael Batnick]

Hello.

[Josh Brown]

Thank you.

[Michael Batnick]

Thank you.

[Josh Brown]

And with us today, a literal legend, literal legend in the tech equity analysis space. Dan Ives is a veteran on Wall Street. I'm gonna read your official bio. Let me just scroll down to it. Hold on to all the disclaimers. Dan is a managing director and senior equity research analyst covering the tech sector for Wedbush Securities. Dan has been a tech analyst on Wall street for over 20 years and makes frequent appearances on CNBC, Bloomberg, NBC, CBS, Nickelodeon, Nicholas, the New York Times. You're every. Dan, you're everywhere. All right, here's I want to start. So the timing worked out as such that we had maximum fear on Sunday night into Monday. Nvidia had the one day record. Market cap lost 500. Let me take this shit off. $580 billion in one day. Sort of bounced on the second day. And today I'm not. Where's Nvidia today? No bounce 118.

[Michael Batnick]

It's 122. So not great, not terrible.

[Josh Brown]

All right, so that's pretty momentous. And the entire media was just captivated by this story. People were asking the White House questions about the like, this has gone so far beyond just tech and stocks.

[Dan Ives]

Oil down.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah, like it like the ramifications of this could be military. But then we get MAG7, earnings start to roll in. And we hear from Zuck, he says this could be the first year. This could be the year rather 2025 where a billion meta users get their own personal assistant, AI assisted. Okay. We hear from Microsoft, they have zero intention of spending any less money this quarter than they already were gonna spend. And they kind of doubled down. Which you're gonna tell us more about. We hear from Elon Musk like within 5 minutes later, I listen to all of them tell us like without a trace of irony. That autonomous, the Optimus humanoid robot could be 10 times bigger than the car business at Tesla. So I don't know what that really means for stock prices near term. But like nobody seems to be backing down and nobody seems to be like changing their mind, but they're all paying attention to this development. So talk us through that.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah, look, it's a fourth industrial revolution that's playing out and we've talked about it for years, but now it's not even a question of if it's playing out, it's the pace and ultimately enterprise use cases, how quick that's going to happen, what physical AI, robotics, autonomous and ultimately where this is all going. And I just view it as you have 2 trillion of AI CapEx the next three years that I essentially view as lock cemented. That's going to happen.

[Josh Brown]

That's a big number.

[Dan Ives]

Now just to put it in Context, for every dollar spent on Nvidia chip, there's an 8 to $10 multiplier across the rest of tech and across the ecosystem from software to infrastructure to data centers to energy to.

[Josh Brown]

So 2 trillion becomes how much you.

[Dan Ives]

Go 2 trillion, ultimately you start to look at it, that becomes a multiplier of 15 trillion when you actually start to look at it over the next 10 years. So my view of this is like.

[Josh Brown]

Sorry, despite the energy intensity of training or inferencing, but that's still going to happen. It's going to, because that's what's in doubt this week.

[Dan Ives]

But that's why when you look at names like throughout the energy complex and it's not a question of if it's gonna happen, it's when it happens when the timetable, okay, because look, we're going through a point where if you have a seven year old, I arguably don't believe they might not even need to get a license. Like in other words, autonomous technology is coming. The fact that Musk is talking about in terms of Austin June, you'll actually have unsuccessful, he said the cyber taxi.

[Josh Brown]

Unassisted starting in June, five months.

[Dan Ives]

Best case was December that it was going to happen and most thought it wasn't happening until 2026. So it's another example of Tesla's one. You could look at it, remember in the spreadsheet, oh, they're lowering number. That's bread at the restaurant. This is all about an autonomous AI story when it comes to everything that happened this week with Deep Seek. Deep Seek competition is going to have whether it's China or us, these models are just the tip of the Iceberg to where broader AI spend's gonna go. And there's only one chip in the world.

[Josh Brown]

You're saying they're all gonna get cheaper.

[Dan Ives]

They're all gonna look. If you look at semi prices, semi price, a lot of times, like if you look at Capex, like a lot of times prices go down 50% every two years. So it's not about that things are not gonna get cheaper. It's you are still, you're in the dugout of the first inning with overall AI spend. So as you talk about the white knuckle, the massive sell off we took on Monday, in my opinion, in the last decade, outside of, I'd say probably Covid March 2020, that will be looked upon as one of the best moments to buy tech, I think in the last four or five years.

[Josh Brown]

Were you surprised by the fact that within 24 hours of the markets being open, the stocks started to separate themselves, started to see Apple and Meta rallying while Nvidia continued to sell off? I think a lot of investors, probably the people that you talk to, even professionals, they just assume that this is all one big AI trade. But now there's a nuance. There are makers and there are takers, there are buyers of technology and sellers of technology. And these stocks are not all doing the same thing in the wake of this bomb.

[Dan Ives]

And there's a non LLMs. If you look at names like Palantir, Karp's view is always like we're not, we're not building LLMs.

[Josh Brown]

Apple didn't build an LLM.

[Dan Ives]

And then you. And then our view of Apple and we've always talked about like the reason this is the consumer AI play regardless of, you know, what units come in in a given quarter over the coming quarter is that the consumer AI revolution goes to Apple. 25% of the world, they're gonna access AI through an Apple device. China, US, Middle east, regardless of where it is. So Apple ultimately benefits. That's why the reason Apple.

[Josh Brown]

Wait, why do they benefit? Because now the same technology is cheaper and it could be used on an edge device like a phone because ultimately.

[Dan Ives]

It'S gonna be an app store. Basically have to go through Apple. And then you think about 1.5 billion iPhones in the world, 2.3 billion iOS devices. Apple is a vehicle for consumers on the AI front.

[Michael Batnick]

Josh, tell em your theory. You had a good one.

[Josh Brown]

Which one?

[Michael Batnick]

About why Apple bounced because they didn't go all in on the AI spend.

[Josh Brown]

Well, that seemed to be the narrative that was forming like wait, wait, Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Nvidia's crashing, Broadcom's crashing, amd, Microsoft is down, Sam Altman's panicking, blah, blah, blah. Why is Apple rallying? So the theory that people had coalesced around was that, well, they looked like they were playing from behind until yesterday, and now they look like they very studiously sat out the first round so they could win in the second round.

[Dan Ives]

Okay, so I think I would like, agree.

[Josh Brown]

Did I invent that?

[Dan Ives]

No. I think there's nuance. I think some are right. Some in terms of the first round they lost, second round they went. I agree with. I think the Cap X piece I disagree with because I think the reason Apple route from investors that I was talking to that was calling is that it's because it's viewed as like, they're number one in the App Store and all of a sudden the light bulb went off. US or China.

[Josh Brown]

Oh, Seek, Seek was number one in.

[Dan Ives]

The App Store because guess what, Apple, I believe it's going to ultimately be an incremental 10, 12, 15 billion per year of services.

[Michael Batnick]

So they're like the toll booth.

[Dan Ives]

They're the toll.

[Josh Brown]

So it doesn't matter if Perplexity beats Gemini and Deepseek, Apple gets paid either way. Apple, if you if right, if you're not in the App Store and you're not paying Apple, you're not relevant.

[Dan Ives]

And that's why it always comes down to like, cook plays chess, others play chess.

[Josh Brown]

So can I disagree with you then? Because not disagree with you. I didn't mean that. Can I throw a monkey wrench into that idea? Yeah, I know you're bullish on meta.

[Dan Ives]

I mean, I think that could, could already be one.

[Josh Brown]

Mark Zuckerberg said that this is the year we're going to find out whether or not the glasses are the iPhone. He said it last night. He's like, it's very possible that that business explodes this year because glasses are the only correct form factor for experiencing AI more so than a device being held in your hand. If he's right and the glasses really go this year, like, I know the Ray Bans are popular, but like, if they really take off like the iPhone 2, then that Apple App Store paradigm might not end up being the correct pattern. If we're all wearing Meta glasses by year end or by the end of next year, then it's a different story for Apple.

[Dan Ives]

And look, and I love Zuck because.

[Josh Brown]

Apple built a helmet. They didn't do the glasses.

[Dan Ives]

But our view of Meta is we're Bullish, because the monetization of 3.3 billion DAU in terms of what AI is going to do there, in other words. So when it comes to hardware, that's why I continue to view it as Apple owns the consumer. Because when you have 1.5 billion iPhones and 99.3% always stay within the I within the Apple ecosystem, meta as much as they want, will never be able to unseat that. Now Apple, when you talk about vision.

[Josh Brown]

So he's making the opposite bet. He thinks he will now, again, it's.

[Dan Ives]

All part of like the Rugen US versus Apple. I kind of like call it a little MMA battle. Maybe it's jiu jitsu, but I get that sort of shot across the bow from him. My argument for Apple has always been they'll be wrong sometimes in initial cycles, but then you all, you ultimately look at it like AirPods, they're going to do 5 million AirPods. Best case, they did 95 million the first year. Because the whole point is like, services can never get to 20 billion. That's impossible.

[Josh Brown]

First version of the watch was shit.

[Dan Ives]

Look, it goes back to like all the I can. I mean, if I actually kept it. But the amount of hate mail that I used to get on Apple going Back to like 1415 services, the thesis that services could be a $2 trillion valuation and get to 100 billion people, literally like, are you on Montego Bay? What are you smoking? How is that possible?

[Michael Batnick]

What are they doing now?

[Dan Ives]

Services, 110 billion. But the reason that is because it's monetization of the install base. Go back to Nokia had a billion users.

[Josh Brown]

They looked invincible.

[Dan Ives]

BlackBerry, billion users. You're like, well, app. Why can't they be the Next Nokia, next BlackBerry? There's no ecosystem but that Bing Bingo. I mean again, 516 little view right there. But the point is like, that's exactly it. It's about monetizing the ecosystem. And that's why Apple, they can miss that first round. But they are not missing out when it comes to the consumer AI revolution. Just like the enterprise AI revolution.

[Josh Brown]

What does this do for the deal apple made with OpenAI? Look, ultimately that's not an exclusive deal.

[Dan Ives]

It's not an exclusive. But look, they recognized that they're not gonna be, they're not gonna be able to do that themselves. They're gonna need to partner. That's the deal with the ChatGPT is.

[Josh Brown]

The engine for Apple intelligence, which I think nobody is using.

[Dan Ives]

But remember, this is a sort of very important point where I think people missed Apple.

[Josh Brown]

Okay?

[Dan Ives]

Everyone's like, chad, Apple Intelligence, I don't see it, this thing. I don't see anything here.

[Josh Brown]

You're imitating me, basically, that's what I'm saying.

[Dan Ives]

But ultimately it's about the 800 to thousand apps currently under development on top of Apple intelligence that developers are building. That is going to be the key because you're gonna basically have almost a generative AI app store for Apple in the coming years.

[Josh Brown]

What are people doing in AI on an Apple device today? They're making the Genmojis.

[Dan Ives]

Exactly.

[Josh Brown]

Today it's like a joke.

[Dan Ives]

But that would be no different than like if we talked about iPhone in 2009, 2010. I told you, you're gonna be able to watch movies on an iPhone. You say, I want that wine that you're drinking.

[Josh Brown]

So we're too early to be critical of whatever they've launched.

[Michael Batnick]

Yeah, but when, how long are your investors going to give the story?

[Dan Ives]

I believe in the next year you're going to literally be looking in an app store and you're going to have 10, 20% of that app store going to be generative AI apps. And no different than what we saw with from a deep sea perspective. That's just the first sign where Apple look, it's just a matter of time till they're going to launch their, their partner in China. Whether it's Baidu, Tencent or Bytes so.

[Josh Brown]

That they can AI enable the phones.

[Dan Ives]

They're going to AI enable phones. That's a Chinese requirement, a Chinese requirement as a partner. And then eventually, whether it's iPhone 17 or different, you're going to have different hardware requirements that they're ultimately going to build. So it goes back to like, you could be wrong on a quarter in Apple. And it goes back to my view. New York City cab driver, the Uber driver, is bearish on Apple and as I've always said, like bears they've hated for the last two and a half trillion marks.

[Josh Brown]

But you think that's why it was rallying this week? Because people are saying, you know what, I don't care who wins. It's all running through Apple.

[Dan Ives]

That's okay.

[Josh Brown]

I'd buy that.

[Dan Ives]

And that's 100%. And now when it comes down to it, it's like you're starting to realize more and more like, okay, if you think about our way that we played AI late 2022, no matter who we meet, be like literally Nvidia, Microsoft and like Penn State, like, that's all those are the three things that no matter what investor I talk to then 2023 we are then 2023 you start to as you start get weaker into then it's like okay, now you got to play rest the hyperscalers. It's not just about Nvidia, Microsoft, Oracle, that's where and then, then the messy of AI Palantir, that's where that thing went from bar mitzvah to senior citizen in the course of one year 12, you know, 13 to 80. So the point is it was all then sort of now it's been building who are the second, third, fourth derivatives now that's where Oracle Service dude, do.

[Josh Brown]

You see IBM recently?

[Dan Ives]

No, but, but IBM is not. But IBM is another good example of like IBM, Oracle, they're going to continue to be huge players in AI because of that ecosystem.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah.

[Dan Ives]

So I just view it as as much as everyone can focus on deep seek and like what this ultimately means, I view it as bullish for software, for infrastructure and actually accelerating the AI revolution.

[Josh Brown]

Can we run through some charts?

[Michael Batnick]

But Dan, you might be right in the story and how this plays out but the problem or the potential problem is that investors have very high expectations for these names. And we saw it with Microsoft blowout numbers, stocks getting hit. So for the MAG7 expected earnings growth year over year for the fourth quarter is 21.7%. I mean that's just. These are big boy numbers.

[Dan Ives]

Yep. But look my view is double, double.

[Josh Brown]

The expectation for the rest of the market.

[Dan Ives]

But I actually think that the Street's underestimating where numbers go over the next two, three years. And that's sort of been our view is that to sit here and micro analyze Microsoft Even though AI revenue beat by a billion, by the way, 13.

[Michael Batnick]

Billion, that's a lot of revenue. Where, what's the source of that 13 billion?

[Josh Brown]

How much is that like copilot?

[Dan Ives]

It's copilot and it's basically what's really.

[Josh Brown]

The use case business that came out of nowhere a year ago.

[Dan Ives]

That's 2 billion.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah.

[Michael Batnick]

And that is the top of the.

[Dan Ives]

First inning and it's top of the first. So let's just take Microsoft as a good example. Non AI revenue is weak, essentially non.

[Josh Brown]

Chart on John.

[Dan Ives]

Microsoft essentially non AI revenue.

[Josh Brown]

So this Q4 earnings.

[Dan Ives]

So you're seeing that disrupted in terms of, you know, this past quarter. All I care about on Microsoft is purely what the AI story is going. What ultimately does that mean for this model? When does 13 billion become 25, 30 billion? And I could argue that Starts to accelerate at a pace where instead of azure numbers being 31%, you're now going to be at points where Azure is going to be growing 40, 45%.

[Josh Brown]

Re accelerate because.

[Dan Ives]

Because what's going to. Because what's going to happen is that now you only have 45% of workloads that are in the cloud today. As more of these use cases build out, there's going to be just. This is why there's more data centers under construction, active data centers, because you're going to need to put everything on the cloud.

[Michael Batnick]

Zuck said what they're building would be the size of Manhattan, essentially. What, what even is that?

[Dan Ives]

But it goes back to. You're going to have data center. Look, when we think about, wait, there.

[Josh Brown]

Are more data centers under construction now than there are working data centers. Why is that bullish for the companies that are building them? Because that sounds not bullish.

[Dan Ives]

It's bullish because it shows how much capacity is ultimately with the demand.

[Josh Brown]

Okay.

[Dan Ives]

And bottom line is if tech companies are spending 400 billion in AI capex, I feel pretty comfortable that Sundar Musk, Zuck Cook. And so they know exactly where they're going in terms of skating, where the puck's going, and they basically, they don't want to be on the outside looking in.

[Josh Brown]

I think it's existential for some of them where it would be riskier to not bet big 100%. I think of Alphabet in that category. If like search gets annihilated by all these AI queries that people are doing instead and people look at him and say, why didn't you spend more like it's game over.

[Dan Ives]

The biggest regret within Redmond, within their history, if you ask anyone there that's been on that campus, is when they were on the DOJ investigation, antitrust, late 90s, 2000, they basically, they put the brakes on, didn't invest, never really focused on mobile, eventually where social, where everything went. And they basically missed out on that whole trend for the last, for 15 years till Nadella got there in 2014. So the point is like our view is like where everything is going today. The reason we think tech stocks are going to be up another 25% this year and you're going to see massive M and A. And I think Mag7, despite expectations being higher, going to continue to massively outperform. Because now investors are starting to recognize where this is going. We're going to have 20% of vehicles that are autonomous at the end of the decade. Robotics, we believe one out to every eight to 10 households going to have a robot. You talk about enterprise use cases. The use cases are going to exponentially increase as you have more and more going down this path across verticals.

[Josh Brown]

So, so it sounds like, so it sounds like the capex has to keep up or slightly be ahead of the, the product launches and the adoption curves has to. Okay. And so therefore who gives a shit if there's a large language model that's more efficient than the last one? That's what we need.

[Dan Ives]

And to some extent the reason it's more bullish is because if danjosh.com didn't want to go down the AI path and now with cheaper models we could actually spend less on, we could spend more in GPUs, more in heart. Then all of a sudden the 4% enterprises in the US that are going down AI path now it's 15% then. And let's just remember where we are. Europe, Dark ages haven't even focused on AI. Asia obviously without with constrictions in terms of export controls in China. But that is going to continue accelerating. We're just talking about one little piece that's actually gone down AI path and it's mostly big tech.

[Michael Batnick]

Let me read you some of these Elon quotes from the call last night. Like I just.

[Josh Brown]

We're going to hit Tesla at the end.

[Dan Ives]

No, but it's great. It's great that you're bringing that because.

[Michael Batnick]

I don't buy it. Sorry.

[Josh Brown]

Wait, wait, wait. I don't want to skip to Tesla. I want to stay on Microsoft. Meta. John, can we put this next chart up? So this is Meta's operating margin is up to 48% from 41% the same quarter a year ago. Thanks to chart kid Matt for these visuals. Clearly they're making more money than ever on video. Video ads, reels, these are huge successes. There's no AI in these numbers. All spending, like all the AI in Meta's numbers is in the form of expenses.

[Dan Ives]

But it goes back to your question. In other words, you talk about like numbers, numbers the street and I think investors now it's like the light bulbs went off. They're recognizing, look, you are spending, spending, spending, but more and more the actual output and the revenue. Let's say for a Meta, when you monetize even 5% of 3.3 billion DAUs, that number's. That could be an incremental $1.52 earnings power.

[Michael Batnick]

I'm skeptical that Wall street is going to give them as much room as you think. Like I don't think they have five more quarters.

[Dan Ives]

I actually think 2025 is a pivotal year for AI.

[Josh Brown]

They're all saying that.

[Dan Ives]

No, but, but the reason is that because now, and I think the only one, the. The ones that have seen it early, Palantir, because they're really front and center when it comes to use cases. Salesforce, Salesforce, ServiceNow. Yeah, those are really the three on software. Oracle has pieces of it, obviously. The hyperscalers have pieces of it that have actually seen it in terms of these boot camps, these use cases and what that's actually doing.

[Josh Brown]

I give you one. One more category of stocks. I don't know if you follow these or somebody else at Wedbush does. I was talking about these on TV today. The IT consulting firms, they're all at record highs. Accenture, Cognizant, Gartner Group, it. I can't believe what these stocks are doing.

[Dan Ives]

But it's all, it's all part.

[Josh Brown]

It's all AI.

[Dan Ives]

No, it's all part of the thing about Julia Center. 20% of their consultants or more now, AI focused says, that's my point.

[Josh Brown]

If my firm, Ritholtz Wealth Management, was like, all right, we have a budget. We're going to spend $3 million on.

[Dan Ives]

Tax for an AI assistant.

[Josh Brown]

We can't do that shit. We have to call. We have to call Accenture or somebody. We probably can't afford Accenture and say, here are our workflows, here are our ambitions sales wise. This is what we're trying to do. AI this shit, that's who's getting paid for that. And that's happening at 100 million businesses around the world right now.

[Dan Ives]

And let's even just take a step back in a Trump administration that's going to be pro AI driven. I can tell you, someone spends a lot of time in D.C. the amount of, I think improvements that AI could do in terms of DoD and a lot of the agencies is almost hard to put together, even from numbers perspective. If you have 10% of it budgets, 15% on the government that go toward AI, then those numbers that you showed, they're almost embarrassing for companies as a minimum in terms of what they can do. But it just speaks to ultimately where we are in this cycle. And that's why I get it in terms of like hype. Look, hate mails continue to increase because I get like bears this valuation black swan.

[Michael Batnick]

What's the best bear case? Like when you're like, all right, that one. I can't take that one off the table.

[Dan Ives]

The Best bear because I don't view bear cases as. And remember, a lot of the bears talk to like super smart. It's not a lot like I learn a lot from talking to bears. It's not about valuation arguments. The biggest bear case they're faking sales is that the biggest bear case is there's a window here where you need the use cases to ultimately start to launch. You need the killer app, ChatGPT 5 or whatever it may be. You need something to ultimately be the aha moment.

[Michael Batnick]

Yeah, I agree with that. Something needs to break through.

[Josh Brown]

The bear case that I hear most about is there's a warehouse filled with GPUs that core weave has stuffed in there. And Nvidia is selling product to China through Singapore. And all the bear cases are about like outright fraud. I don't hear anyone.

[Dan Ives]

And again, those bear cases are the same as people like, oh, I got these hermes sneakers for $30 and Times Square, they're off. That's my point.

[Josh Brown]

It sounds like wishcasting when you hear the bears on it on Nvidia is Now what is 25 times earnings? Remember, you need it to be a fraud to fall.

[Dan Ives]

And what's amazing to me is that remember it's the same ones like Tesla's a fraud. This, they've said that literally for the 8,000 sort of percent increase the whole time. But my view is the reason that that's the best bear case is that that's the one where it's a prove it moment. But I just go back to like our last trip in Asia. Demand to supply for Nvidia chips is 15 to 1.

[Josh Brown]

Can you give me Chart 6, John? Dan, what do, what do you make of this? This is the MAG7 earnings per share growth versus valuations. So all right, this is an amazing chart. Yeah, so look at these seven. I'm just going to read them for the people that are not looking at the chart. Nvidia is now 28 times earnings with 51% earnings growth expected over the next year. That seems appropriately priced, not a bubble if that happens. All right, Tesla is a little bit out of control. 116 times earnings on 34% growth. And they're still shrinking, which we're going to talk about later in the show. That's the one that you and I disagree with the most on, by the way. Amazon 22% growth, 37 multiple. Expensive but not wild. Apple 17% growth, 31 multiple. People have an issue with that. But the lock in explains it, right? The consumer lock in. Okay, fine. Forget Microsoft, we did that. Alphabet, 12% growth, 21 times earnings. It's a market multiple for like the third largest Internet company in the world. Okay, Metta, 12% growth expected, 26 multiple. Also a lot of lock in there. 3 billion users. Nobody's leaving Instagram. None of those valuations are obnoxious to me. None of them, not one of them outside of Tesla. So what we did was we averaged them. Take those seven. It's 23% growth expected this year on a forward PE of 41. Expensive, but not outrageous. And if you pull out Tesla, it's 21% growth at a 29 forward multiple. Who the wouldn't pay for that? Who wouldn't invest in that?

[Dan Ives]

But I would argue that those, the multiples are being overstated by 15 to anywhere to 30% because they keep beating. Because numbers are going to go up so much more than the streets anticipate. Look, that was the whole view in Nvidia, right? Everyone's like super expensive and like look, the reason godfather of AI because numbers are going from 50 cents to $5.

[Josh Brown]

So the point, Sorry, that's the next chart. That's. This is your point, Sorry, this is Nvidia rallying 1900% and getting cheaper. That's exactly the. It was 33 times earnings in 2020. Now it's 28 times earnings and it's up 2000%.

[Dan Ives]

Exactly. Okay, and I, and I believe not to the same level as Nvidia, but when we're going to look at Mag 7, if we sit here a year from now, we're going to be like, look, first half 25, they were good numbers. They were beaten here and there. What's wild is the acceleration. The second half 25 into 26, the street was not anticipating that. So I believe it speaks to our narrative. It's always the timing has always been 23 and 24 was the build out. Second half 25 is where you start to see it. And then from then on it's our view, like we're in less than halfway through a tech bull market where I just believe, like if you just sit here focused on, let's say and we could talk about TESS or others, like if you sit here focused on valuation over the next year, you miss it. Not just have you missed every transformation tech thing in the last 20 years, you will miss, I believe, the biggest tech revolution we've ever seen.

[Josh Brown]

Right. The dispersion in MAG7 returns this year. Valuation has nothing to do with what's going on because we have chart 8 can you grab that one for us, Duncan? So this is basically showing the year to date and I know it's like three weeks, but just bear with me, this year so far, valuation has not been the thing that performance is hinging on. You have Nvidia down 9%, you have Meta up 18% at the high end. Everybody else sort of falling in, in the middle. It really seems like it's more narrative than anything else. And you're making the point that that's going to continue.

[Michael Batnick]

Do we need, do we like so to support these, these valuations? I think this needs to change the way we live. But does it have to be on the consumer side or is it enough if it changes every business in the world?

[Dan Ives]

The first two years of this build out is enterprise. I mean enterprise consumers in theory, until autonomous consumers. It's going to be about apps in the App store building on top of Apple intelligence. But this is an enterprise AI buildout for the next two years.

[Michael Batnick]

So is that why people are missing it? Because they're not seeing it?

[Dan Ives]

That's so the thing is a lot. So part of the what I believe is like a flawed bear argument like chat GPT idea, I don't even do it now this bears, I'm like, yeah, I get your view. I'm talking about the CIO spending $19 million on the AI project over the next two years where they literally just increase their spend with Microsoft, Palantir, Google and Nvidia by legit like 3000%.

[Josh Brown]

So of course your neighbor doesn't see that.

[Dan Ives]

So. No, but that's, but that's also why like I think you have to separate it out between the enterprise piece and consumer.

[Josh Brown]

Do you remember the early days of the Internet when we had two types of stocks. We had B2C and B2 to be. And there was a moment in 2000, let's say in 99, the B2C names fell out of favor. A lot of people don't remember this, but you definitely do. We stopped trading Yahoo and Amazon and we started trading the companies that were going to do E commerce between companies.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah, I two managers.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we had like a whole new category of stocks that were enterprise or thought they were.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah, but, but we go back to like.com bubble, Cisco, Char showing the Nvidia. I mean they're like the average tech stock was trading 38 times revenues, 98% of them were not profitable. And their business models were built on 85% of companies that were startup basically business model flood funded here. What's funding this is tech companies of 1.2 trillion of cash generating 350 billion of cash per year. So it's like you can argue it but bottom line is if Nadella is like I'm doing my 80 billion Zuckerberg his 65 billion that keeps you're going to have 400 billion just from.

[Josh Brown]

So you okay, we're not funding this from the junk bond market and we're not funding this from Equity IPOs. Cuz there are no IPOs and there are no tech borrowers in the junk bond market.

[Dan Ives]

Exactly.

[Josh Brown]

Okay. This is being funded by companies with huge cash flows choosing to spend money from those cash flows on capex. That's a. I would argue that's healthier than.com but I would also argue Microsoft barely went up last year. This year it's got a negative return right now he's doubling down. But to Michael's earlier question like if they quote unquote disappoint next quarter or the quarter after you gotta believe that at some point the board tells Satya slow the down like this is not working but.

[Dan Ives]

But it's somewhere like my that's.

[Josh Brown]

I think Michael asked you the best.

[Dan Ives]

Question but I agree but it's someone like my come Microsoft since late 90s when Nadella takes over and the stock's 25 bucks post bomber disaster Nokia, the whole thing and literally just everything that he went so and he's like cloud, cloud, cloud 2014 comes even though he was internal. Everyone wants someone external Michael, Dell, whatever. When you take a stock from 25 to 4:30 from 14 they're like hey solely Solinger flying the plant. I feel pretty good. The point is like if you. Is that forever But I believe when I look at Nadella's vision it's a two part vision. First part cloud check yeah. Second part AI enterprise. So you're building it out now. So my argument would be the only way that you get to a stock that's 6700 bucks you have to go through this period because that's the hyperbolic earnings power and what I believe is going to be growth for Microsoft as well as also just taking a step back Kahn done at FTC M&A is going to massively accelerate tech companies know strong get stronger. They also have M and A that they could do more acquisition to just accelerate that sort of moat.

[Josh Brown]

Here are some of your sizzling takes from the week. Deep seek is the TEMU of AI just and I know some people say TEMU and maybe they're right But I won't do that. Just like Temu was the Amazon model destroyer which you put in quotes. And I remember that a few years ago Amazon's team adjusted and now look where Temu and Amazon both are sitting. This latest shot across the bow from China will also play a role in TikTok saga and more hardline US stance. So it's like a cheap imitator from China but sometimes the cheap imitator like works out and I think that's the cause of the alarm because every once in a while it is a bytedance.

[Dan Ives]

It is 10 cent, it works out. But put this way, American Express is not building out their AI strategy. No chance. I mean we could go across the board. I mean I just spoke to 25 companies, they're spending more than 10 million on AI capex in 20.

[Josh Brown]

25 billion, okay?

[Dan Ives]

Billion. There's none of them, none of them combined that are changing their paths when it comes to this. And then I'll take the other side when you look at projects.

[Josh Brown]

Wait, can I ask you a question? What do you mean by changing their paths? Like if they were building something on Claude Sonnet, they still are in the aftermath.

[Dan Ives]

Look, a lot of these CapEx AI strategic buildouts, they're already now cemented between now and mid 26.

[Josh Brown]

Okay?

[Dan Ives]

So the point is strategically, I'm not saying that you're not going to have air pockets at points. I'm not saying that there's points where any little data point is going to get, you know, accelerated. Nervous Blackwell. Dewey, is this Singapore? I get all the stuff but the reality is like we are like the ships left the port. Like the point is like this, this rocket ship or whatever you want to think about is going.

[Michael Batnick]

But how about this? Are they are the CFOs and these companies of the boards making the decision to spend the money because they think that they're going to get an ROI on these investments or are they doing it because if they don't, they're dead. They're not going to be able to keep up.

[Dan Ives]

It's both. Because if I'm an average, I'll just give me an example. If I'm an advertising firm and my four biggest competitors are spending anywhere from 10 to 20 million on AI, I'm just going to sit there being like, hey, I'm good, you guys spent well.

[Josh Brown]

Well, unless those four waste a lot of money and have nothing to show for it.

[Dan Ives]

But now even just to take it next level, of those four, two have already potentially identified a use case that they believe could potentially change their company from an advertising model perspective. So and then if you're like, oh, now we gotta go down that path.

[Josh Brown]

The price just went up.

[Dan Ives]

But also it's getting line because it goes back to GPU. It's a supply demand. 15 to 1 demand to supply for Nvidia chips.

[Michael Batnick]

So I'm guessing you think that the concentration in the market is going to increase, that these companies are going to swallow even more market share.

[Dan Ives]

I think it's going to increase. But then going back to the multiplier effect, all of a sudden like there's going to be names like I was giving. There'll be names across like small cap or across. Why is this stock up 30%? You're like, because all of a sudden.

[Michael Batnick]

Margin expansion, AI margin expansion.

[Dan Ives]

I mean I have a company like name like pegasystems. I'm just giving an example. Small cap name went from like 50 60, but it's 1, 105, 110. They're like Ah, growth doesn't look that much more. No. But what's happened is they're basically an it, like an IT tool player that's starting to get more and more AI driven revenue. Bam. Multiple expansion done.

[Josh Brown]

I think there's going to be a few of those in every sector.

[Dan Ives]

So. And it's not just, it's not just tech like and like a lot of times like even like a web bush, I'm talking always like retail. Other analysts being like don't just sit there with your typical lens the way you value companies because if there's a coming all of a sudden that they start to change their mind, they get AI driven revenue. The multiple changes in terms of how the market's going to value it.

[Josh Brown]

All right, Tesla, we got it. We got to end with Tesla. There's so much here, let me set this up and then we'll go. I don't listen to the Tesla call because I own Tesla through the S&P 500 and through the QS. I don't own the stock individually. I never understood it. I missed one of the best rallies. I'll always regret having missed the run up in Tesla. I was friends with Jim Chanos for a lot of it and I just, I never understood it. Now I understand it and I can't bring myself to buy it. Okay, so that's my bias on Tesla. Willingly lay it out. The smartest people I've ever heard talking about anything investment related all hated the stock forever.

[Dan Ives]

And I was 2010 and I think that is Like a perfect way to put it. Some of the smartest people, they just. Not just Einhorn, but some of the smartest. I'd walk into rooms like this, there'd be 15 people, and they'd be like, we just want to talk about Tesla and some of the smartest people I've ever talked to. And I'd agree that we're all bearish.

[Josh Brown]

So here's where I'm going. He got away with everything, right? He did things that no other CEO or founder of public company would ever be able to do. And he did it with a gleam in his eye and a smile on his face. And he went through moments where he was almost bankrupt, quote, unquote, or they wouldn't be able to raise money. Blah, blah, blah. He's making cars in the tent, like all that shit. He survived, he thrived. He's outselling all the US car manufacturers. Nobody can take any of those achievements away from him. He's landing rockets. Blah, blah, blah. Now it's you. Talk about exponential. He decides who runs the sec. Like, I don't think people understand that. I'm going to read to you how he opened the conference call last night. And you'll giggle a little bit because it's impossible not to, but he could say all of this and even more, and nobody's going to do anything about it. Okay, this is Elon last night, and I've said this before, and I'll stand by it. I see a path. I'm not saying it's an easy path. Very smart. The lawyers told them to put that in. But I see a path to Tesla being the most valuable company in the world by far. Not even close. Maybe several times more than. I mean, you know. He stutters. I mean, there is a path where Tesla is worth more than the next top five companies combined. There's a path to that. So that'd be $30 trillion. Ish. Okay, there's a path to that. I mean, I think it's like an incredibly. Just like a difficult path, but it's an achievable path. And how this is overwhelmingly due to autonomous vehicles and humanoid robots. So our focus is building toward that. Very few people understand the value of full self driving and our ability to monetize the fleet. Some of these things I've said for quite a long time, and I know people have said, well, Elon is the boy who cried wolf several times, but I'm telling you, there's a damn wolf this time, and you can drive it. In fact, it can drive you. It's a self driving wolf. All right. That is. I mean I, I took the AirPods out of my ear and hit pause on the quarter app. Cause I was like this guy could just basically do whatever he wants now. And it's amazing. And if you're a shareholder, you love it. Because like the earnings were. No offense, the earnings were not good.

[Dan Ives]

No, I, I don't disagree.

[Josh Brown]

The deliveries were down, the earnings were down. The revenue is not grow. Like he has an infinite.

[Michael Batnick]

He has an infinite Runway and belief from his investors. Because to Josh's point, earnings were shit. And he even said forget about the car. Forget about the cars. Our Optimus is going to be 10 times bigger than the cars.

[Josh Brown]

Could you imagine McDonald's saying forget about the burgers, we're building robots.

[Dan Ives]

No, but look, and I get your point and like a lot of people have that reaction, but so let's just go back to like 2018. They're like, there's no way this is a company that could ever get to a few hundred thousand EVs on the road.

[Josh Brown]

Agree.

[Dan Ives]

Okay.

[Josh Brown]

Everybody's.

[Michael Batnick]

Morgan agrees with no. He's earned the benefit of the doubt.

[Josh Brown]

He did it.

[Dan Ives]

But I truly believe autonomous and robotics will dwarf the EV valuation.

[Josh Brown]

I could picture it happening too. And I've seen what the robots can.

[Michael Batnick]

Already do in 10 years sooner.

[Dan Ives]

Tell me, tell me we don't know. I believe autonomous. And this goes to like the bet for the agers of betting on Trump. Because Trump's gonna cry kid. Reverend sweep the leg. In terms of everything from a regulatory. You're gonna actually have a federal roadmap in terms of autonomous. That's gonna be the next step. And I believe cyber cabs will be a reality a year from now.

[Josh Brown]

So do I.

[Dan Ives]

And when you think about.

[Josh Brown]

But how many will there be? That's the. I agree with you. But like 100.

[Dan Ives]

I believe you could ultimately be looking at 80 to 100,000 per year.

[Josh Brown]

How is he making that many?

[Dan Ives]

Because if you look at the production lines that they have and all. And look, it's going to ultimately take time of true volume production. For a company that's producing 2 million vehicles.

[Josh Brown]

Who's cleaning them at night? Well, you got. All right, let me. So event to a Tesla right now.

[Dan Ives]

They're robots. No, but eventually it's going to.

[Josh Brown]

I just got out of a Tesla Model Y. They send me a car to go do cnbc. Cause I'm a huge deal and you have an aviation. If I take a piece of gum out of my mouth and stick it to the roof. The driver in front of me will turn around and smack me in the face. And then ultimately he's gonna scrape the thing off the roof or he'll force me to. How do you maintain a fleet of 100,000 autonomous cars in Austin, which is arguably the drunkest city in America, at least right now? How possibly is that as high margin as people think it's gonna be? These cars have to live somewhere. They need to be maintained. They'll break down. You don't have owners of these cars who have been responsible. Who's the owner?

[Dan Ives]

So here's. So I remember we're walking through just like we always have, like, where everything's going. Is that. First of all, in. In. In Austin, that would be like pilot sort of projects. So no different than Waymo's. But remember Waymo's $240,000 cars, they have.

[Josh Brown]

The same problem I just described as the cybercap.

[Dan Ives]

But what. What's going to happen is as autonomous licenses in the federal and eventually state happen. Josh, Mike, Dan, Gene will basically, they'll have fleets where I'll have two model Y autonomous vehicles at my house.

[Josh Brown]

While I'm here, you contract them out to the fleet.

[Dan Ives]

They're doing rides no different than Uber. And then all of a sudden, I have an app that's seeing where they're going. They'll be like ultimately meeting stations that. That they can go to as well, charging stations. And then when those come back to my house, I basically have been making money the whole day on those fleets.

[Josh Brown]

You're getting a commission because your cars were out running errands.

[Michael Batnick]

He said, like Airbnb.

[Dan Ives]

It's going to be an Airbnb. It's going to be that model. Because if you look today, cars probably, you know, if you think about only 5% of the time, they actually drive.

[Josh Brown]

So he's right about that. The statement he made was that this is going to be the largest increase in asset value ever when I turn all the cars into an autonomous fleet.

[Dan Ives]

But I just want to caveat one, which is an important gm, Ford, other automakers, they're nowhere when it comes to oem, when it comes to fsd, the way that they're going to fsd, it's going to be a partnership with Tesla.

[Josh Brown]

So that equipment will go on to. That's a Ford Bronco.

[Dan Ives]

Exactly.

[Josh Brown]

Okay, I believe that. So that sounds like a good business.

[Dan Ives]

So in other words, think about the technology. And that's why when we talk about physical AI and Genesis talked about it Too autonomous is going to be, as a consumer, the best use case and the biggest when it comes to AI.

[Josh Brown]

Okay.

[Dan Ives]

Which. Right. We believe the valuation of autonomous is worth a trillion dollars alone for Tesla. But that's why the stock's up today versus down, even though numbers are not good.

[Michael Batnick]

It's the story. He sold the story. So he said. But again, he's. He's saying that like it's Optimus. Forget about the car stuff. He said. With regard to Optimus, obviously, I'm making revenue predictions that sound absolutely insane. I realize that, but they are. I think they will prove to be accurate. Now, with Optimus, there's a lot of uncertainty on the exact timing because it's not like a train arriving at the station. For Optimus, we are designing the train and the station and in real time, while also building the tracks. What are these robots going to do for us?

[Dan Ives]

Well, so far, the robot.

[Josh Brown]

Remember the piano? Didn't you see Westworld?

[Michael Batnick]

He did say.

[Dan Ives]

But also remember, remember, the robots are going to have. They're basically AI brains. So no different than like a puppy comes home, doesn't know you, three years later, knows that you like to eat. Right.

[Josh Brown]

You don't abandon your robot for a new model like a vacuum cleaner. The robot learns.

[Dan Ives]

So the robot, they come in as a kindergartner, then they become a PhD, a Stephen Hawkins. They know you. So you're here. Those robots are at home doing your wash. So I'm just trying to.

[Josh Brown]

They're not starting out that way.

[Dan Ives]

They're not starting out that way.

[Josh Brown]

Start out like R2, D2, you get C3PO, like three or four iterations later.

[Dan Ives]

And then it's all about the AI chip, essentially in the brain.

[Michael Batnick]

I'm sure it's coming, but, like, when.

[Dan Ives]

It sounds, I believe, true Optimus, 2026, 2027 is where Optimus will be there both. And then we're talking about on the consumer side, on the enterprise side, when you talk about factories, sure, the amount, there's things that, whether it's like restaurants, whether it's making fries.

[Josh Brown]

Well, Amazon's already got factories filled with robots. They don't look like Optimus because they don't need to. They have an arm for a head that's lifting boxes.

[Dan Ives]

But advanced robotics, like, when you think about a Tesla factor, anyone that's ever been there, when you start to think about now robotics could be 20, 30, 40% now. People that are actually.

[Josh Brown]

He's really asking, though, when is the girlfriend Optimus coming? That's like, he doesn't want to say like the subtext of everything is like, why don't I have one yet?

[Dan Ives]

And that's a great question. And that. And I believe these are the Asians.

[Josh Brown]

I'll have that first.

[Michael Batnick]

I want a robot to load my dishes.

[Dan Ives]

And I believe that's something by 2026.

[Josh Brown]

Although you have your laundry folded professionally, Right. Like imagine a laundry bot.

[Michael Batnick]

Yeah.

[Josh Brown]

What wouldn't you pay for that?

[Dan Ives]

I know. And also he said they're going to.

[Michael Batnick]

Cost, what do you say, less than 20,000 to produce. And he said, somebody said, what are you going to charge for? He said, well, whatever the market, you know, that'll be a demand question.

[Dan Ives]

But then eventually you're going to be able to lease them. You'll be able to almost like Kaisho.

[Josh Brown]

Did you watch? Did you watch? Of course you did. The Nvidia keynote.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah.

[Josh Brown]

Okay, remember that one segment where Jensen stands in the middle and, and behind him is 20 different humanoid robots. It kind of looks like Iron Man 3 where like at the end he like hits the Jarvis, sends everything that. Okay, that's what that reminded me of. But every one of those robots behind Jensen is a current humanoid robot prototype that's being built. Like, that was not like, AI, make me 20 robots, like, those things are.

[Dan Ives]

Being built now and Nvidia and Tesla are gonna compete when it comes to robotics.

[Josh Brown]

So that was my question. Is Nvidia the arms dealer to all those robots?

[Dan Ives]

They are the arms dealer because remember, ultimately those chips that Tesla's gonna need are from Nvidia.

[Josh Brown]

So then if you're bullish on Tesla, you have to be bullish. But because of Optimus, then you have to be bullish. A bullish on Nvidia.

[Dan Ives]

But that's why when we came out of the keynote with Jensen, our whole view is like, this might be one of the best things in 25 years that we've ever seen, along with robotaxaday and others. And then that's going to stock sells off because you might. I'm like, this is going to be a rounding error in the broader vision of where this is all going.

[Josh Brown]

What do you think of the idea that the energy companies that all got killed this week, what do you think of the idea that maybe the chip stocks that got killed are a buy, but the energy companies maybe will need less energy for the revolution?

[Dan Ives]

I don't believe it. I actually think they're going to need more energy. More energy because of where everything is going.

[Josh Brown]

So you don't cover those stocks.

[Dan Ives]

But like, but that's why we cover like let's say Aqua and the nuclear. Because I'm a big believer, like nuclear is going to play a big role. But when you look like consulate, when you look at any of the sort of grid players utility. Because bottom line is like if you're bullish on these names in terms of tech, you have to by definition be bullish in this because the only way this works is with the energy.

[Josh Brown]

What do you want? What do you want? What do you want to. What do you want to. Should we do like a lightning round of Dan's names? What are the names? We did that. We didn't come up. You mentioned Palantir.

[Dan Ives]

I mean Palantir we mentioned. I mean, I think like Mango, Snowflake.

[Josh Brown]

Tell us the MongoDB story. What does that have to do with AI?

[Dan Ives]

Because it's my view of like as the use cases and as ultimately data starts to build, the consumption models are going to increase.

[Josh Brown]

Okay.

[Dan Ives]

And Manga is really a consumption AI play along with Snowflake.

[Michael Batnick]

What about the private companies?

[Dan Ives]

Yeah, I mean, like, look, we talk to a ton of private companies and I believe we're now at the precipice where you're going to see a lot of these private companies, you know, potentially going down the public path or potentially M and A. But you know, there's, it's already been a desert when it comes to IPOs. And I think we are now at a point also with the regulatory condo and ftc, a lot of the other changes that it's going to be, it's going to be a golden age for tech. And I think even on the private side with VCs and a lot of the sort of, you know, private equity, there are also going to be huge, huge players in terms of funding these companies.

[Michael Batnick]

What about the, the Serve Robotics of the world? Like you, are you, are you a buyer of that story? Because Josh is.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah. So I. So I know those guys pretty well. I mean.

[Josh Brown]

You do?

[Dan Ives]

Yeah.

[Michael Batnick]

Tell us more.

[Dan Ives]

I mean Ali and those guys, you.

[Josh Brown]

Don'T write on them though.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah, but I know them.

[Josh Brown]

I spoke to like two of the three analysts that actually publish on.

[Michael Batnick]

Josh owns the stock he's trying to get us to buy.

[Dan Ives]

And no, I think.

[Josh Brown]

But I would argue down in it huge.

[Dan Ives]

I would, I'd actually argue they're probably the only true level four autonomous company.

[Josh Brown]

See, I told you. Level four.

[Michael Batnick]

I know, I'm just skeptical of this whole idea. So please, wait, let me pitch you.

[Josh Brown]

Serve and then tell me everything that's wrong with My pitch, elevator pitch. It is not efficient to have people driving 2,000 pound cars to deliver a one pound burrito.

[Dan Ives]

It speaks to our whole, this whole conversation. Agree.

[Josh Brown]

So you don't want an autonomous car just taking the place of a regular person driving car. You want something else for certain locations. Los Angeles has 100 serve little carts.

[Dan Ives]

Rolling around in different areas.

[Josh Brown]

They're not being controlled by somebody behind the bushes. They're actually level four autonomous.

[Michael Batnick]

Those are R2D2s.

[Josh Brown]

They earn about $43 in revenue per day. And again, there's only $43. Well, 100 of them times 365 days.

[Dan Ives]

$43.

[Josh Brown]

They have a contract with Uber. Uber.

[Dan Ives]

Well, Uber's gonna be.

[Josh Brown]

The Uber is gonna deploy 2,000 of them by the end of this year.

[Dan Ives]

As they go around the country.

[Josh Brown]

That's $50 million. What I'm telling you.

[Dan Ives]

No, I mean, look, here's the 2,000.

[Josh Brown]

Robots and $40 a day, 365 days a year. That's, that's just Uber. That could be 50.

[Dan Ives]

And I think serve is a good example of like they, you know, they've gone through obviously a lot of challenges in their model, but if you look at where they've come out now, that's a good example where like the street just dismissed it. But if you actually understood it's sub.

[Josh Brown]

1 billion, so nobody will even look at it.

[Dan Ives]

Exactly. But if you look at their technology, they're actually under the covers as a pure technology company. One of the more, I think, very interesting companies out there in terms of pure robotics and technology.

[Josh Brown]

They raised almost $200 million last year through stock sales. They say they won't sell any more stock, but who knows, Maybe they will. But like, look, I own a tiny amount of it and I'm actually hoping it goes lower because I want to add to it at lower prices. I spoke to like the bull analyst who covers it. His price target is 12. The stock's 18. I'm like, all right, so who else.

[Michael Batnick]

Can I talk to?

[Josh Brown]

He's like, look, it's just, it's just too early. No, they don't make any money.

[Michael Batnick]

Yeah, but that, but don't you want to earn a.1 stallion.

[Dan Ives]

But, but that's another. I thought, but that's like people I talked to and let's say like Aqua, right? Like, what is it like as a nuclear plan?

[Josh Brown]

What's the name?

[Dan Ives]

Aqua. Like the same. The Aqua. The Sam Altman nuclear play.

[Josh Brown]

I don't even do that.

[Dan Ives]

But that's another example. Like 10 bucks like it's not making money till 27. I'm like, look, if you believe in AI Altman's new and some of the technology that they're actually building out, you can't look at revenues numbers next to. You got to look at.

[Michael Batnick]

Sure.

[Dan Ives]

And now, of course, Stock goes from 10 to 35. And now everyone's like, yeah, I don't care about numbers. 25, 26. Let's figure what is going to do next five, 10 years.

[Michael Batnick]

Here's another one that we both own.

[Josh Brown]

It's like, no, no revenue speech in Silicon Valley. What's. What's the guy's name? What's the guy's name? This guy.

[Michael Batnick]

Oh, the guy who trace commas guy.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah. What's Hanneman. Russ Hanneman.

[Michael Batnick]

Good job, Duncan.

[Josh Brown]

Is it Ross? Hanneman?

[Michael Batnick]

Ross. Ross. Isn't it Ross?

[Josh Brown]

Russ. Russ.

[Michael Batnick]

Are you saying Russell Ross?

[Dan Ives]

Are you.

[Michael Batnick]

Yeah. Russ.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah.

[Josh Brown]

So he's talking to the. He's talking to the. He's talking to the kid. He's like, stop. No revenue. Why? Because once you have revenue, it's never going to be enough. All right, so serve has no revenue. I'm guessing, I'm guessing the nuclear plant has no revenue.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah, but it, to me, it's all where we are. And remember, this is not.com but because when you think about where everything is going, robotics, autonomous, AI, it's all part of an ecosystem.

[Michael Batnick]

Josh and I, Josh, I were laughing. It serves on their deck, on their quarterly deck, it says they did $0.2 billion in revenue, the most recent quarter.

[Josh Brown]

So we've never seen that before.

[Michael Batnick]

One more. So. So Uber gapped down 4% today. It finished at the highs of the day. I think it was, it was, it was flattish. So every time there's Tesla news on the, on the cell.

[Josh Brown]

So that's one of my biggest positions. That's really pissing me.

[Dan Ives]

So where does that. And we're just like, we're bullish on Uber and we cover Uber and we're both. I don't view it as mutually. I don't view like you have to.

[Michael Batnick]

Bet on Tesla, but the market does right now.

[Josh Brown]

But the market crushes Uber 5% every time Elon talks about.

[Dan Ives]

And I think that's the wrong, I think it's the wrong knee jerk reaction. But ultimately, like if you look what Uber's done, like Waymo and some other partnerships, I think where it's all going to go. It's our view that eventually Uber and Tesla will partner.

[Josh Brown]

Give me some More cope. Uber has a partnership with Waymo for Atlanta and Austin only. Now we know they'll compete in Austin versus the Cyber Taxi. Austin's about to be like an epicenter of, of autonomous. Okay, all right. Which makes sense. People that will absolutely try it, use it, love it. Okay. If Waymo looks at this partnership with Uber in Atlanta and Austin and says, okay, that's great, but look at how well we do in Vegas or these other cities without Uber. What do we need to list our rides on their app for? That's like a risk that people are worried about. What do you think?

[Dan Ives]

But I could just continue view Waymo, their $200,000 vehicles. In other words, like, they, they still can't scale to the level. And I just don't think in any way that they're going to leave Uber. I mean, to some extent, like Uber is a partner that I think them, they get bigger and bigger.

[Josh Brown]

The most bullish thing that can happen is Waymo says, we've decided we're going to use Uber in two hours.

[Dan Ives]

We're going to expand the cities with. So Uber and Waymo actually doubled down on the partnership because they basically, they realized like, hey, like we're like a eighth grade prom. Like, okay, there's two left. Me, you, I, withstand. So the point is like, they start.

[Josh Brown]

To realize, you know, it was bearish to your point when GM gave up on cruise because that was supposed to be an obvious partner for Uber and there doesn't exist.

[Dan Ives]

But to that point, that's, that's GM specific. They've had to do that. You know, cruise has almost been a.

[Josh Brown]

Negative for Uber because it's like, oh, they were going to be like part of the cruise ecosystem and now there is no cruise ecosystem.

[Dan Ives]

Sure. But I actually, I would argue that like everything Tesla's doing with Cyber Cab and autonomous is actually bullish for Uber over time. Because my view is that eventually 10, 20% of Ubers might not have drivers.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah.

[Dan Ives]

So from a, from a profitability perspective, what that could ultimately do to Uber's business model over time, or what you're saying Uber.

[Josh Brown]

But wait, whose cars are they then? If they're not going to partner with Tesla, what autonomous vehicles are left?

[Dan Ives]

Because we believe ultimately Uber is going to, down the road partner with Tesla as part of the oem.

[Josh Brown]

You think that'll happen?

[Dan Ives]

Oh, I believe the stock will go.

[Josh Brown]

To 100 if that happens.

[Dan Ives]

I believe it's a matter of when, not because Uber at one point and Tesla are. I see no way that they don't Partner.

[Josh Brown]

Okay, last. Last question on this. If Uber buys Expedia, do you sell Uber or do you buy more?

[Dan Ives]

You buy more.

[Josh Brown]

What will the street do? Well, the market will.

[Dan Ives]

In typical street fashion, they'll probably, like, the stock would trade off a bit.

[Josh Brown]

You know, when Bill Dara was the CEO of Expedia, so.

[Dan Ives]

So when those rumors were happening, like, stocks sold off a bit because that's typical street reaction. I would view it as bullish because I want to see super app. Cause it's all about. It's all about their. Everyone right now is trying to go to China. Who could build a super app quicker. Is it musk and potential? We could argue TikTok and where that all goes. And if he ultimately gets it, Uber's gonna try to build a super app.

[Josh Brown]

Book your flight, book your hotel, take your taxi to the hotel.

[Dan Ives]

And no one knows Expedia better than Darling Era.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah. Okay. So that would be bullish to you.

[Dan Ives]

I would view. If that stock sold off, I would drop coverage and own it in my PA Okay.

[Josh Brown]

All right, let's. That's a great place to leave it. We always end the show these days. First of all, ladies and gentlemen, Dan Ives.

[Dan Ives]

This is so much fun.

[Josh Brown]

You literally are the best. I don't know how else to put it. We always end the show these days. We ask people what they're most looking forward to. I'm guessing you're gonna say somewhere you're going or somebody you're meeting. Or maybe I'm wrong.

[Dan Ives]

I'm looking for super bowl.

[Josh Brown]

Any football guy.

[Dan Ives]

I mean, I'm looking forward to Penn State win the natty in 2025.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah, of course. As are most of the people in the country.

[Dan Ives]

I mean, that. That's what I'm. That's what I'm looking forward to most. But I'm actually looking forward most. Like, I'll be in Asia for three weeks.

[Josh Brown]

When are you going?

[Dan Ives]

I go in, like, a week and a half. So I'm really looking forward to that trip because everything we're talking about here, that's feet on the ground, whether it's Taiwan, whether it's China, trying to really understand, like, has anything changed? Because then actually, like, even like all of our travel, I feel like what it does, it gives us an advantage to actually kind of put our thesis to sort of test if we're actually right. And I think that's something I'm at least in the near term, looking forward to.

[Josh Brown]

Can't wait to hear what you have to say when you're there. And when you get back.

[Dan Ives]

Yeah.

[Josh Brown]

Thank you so much for doing this.

[Dan Ives]

This is great.

[Josh Brown]

You have anything you are looking forward to?

[Michael Batnick]

I do. Future Proof. Miami.

[Josh Brown]

Future Proof.

[Dan Ives]

Oh, that's. And I actually, when I come. When I come back from Asia.

[Josh Brown]

Yeah.

[Dan Ives]

Like a week or two later, I'll be down in Miami.

[Michael Batnick]

All American Rejects, the Fry.

[Josh Brown]

Great, great. Two great bands.

[Dan Ives]

I mean, and I'm not just saying this because we're here. I actually find like, Future Proof. I learned so much because I love just from engaging with so many, like, so many smart retail investors. I come out of that with such a good pulse in terms of like, whether it's like negative, positive, bullish, or whatever it may be. So actually that's another reason besides just hanging out with all the epic goats while I look forward to this.

[Josh Brown]

You like Miami too, I'm guessing.

[Dan Ives]

Dude, 305. Who doesn't want Miami? 305. Delano. Come on.

[Josh Brown]

So my looking forward to is I watched the first two episodes of Severance Season 2.

[Dan Ives]

Great.

[Josh Brown]

Holy shit. Is this is the season gonna be incredible. So I'm looking. I Severance. So the next one, if you're listening to this podcast, episode three is out because they come out on Fridays. But I'm going back to rewatch season one.

[Dan Ives]

Severance is awesome.

[Josh Brown]

And now I'm knee deep in all these Reddits and I have, like, theories, and it's just like my favorite. It's my favorite thing. I can't wait for the next one. All right, great job this week, everybody at the compound. Media, Nicole, Daniel, Duncan, John, Char, Kid, Matt, Sean. Who else am I missing? Got everybody. Rob, Graham, Keith.

[Dan Ives]

The team.

[Josh Brown]

The team is going crazy.

[Dan Ives]

I mean, everyone.

[Josh Brown]

Special thanks to Dan Ives. Follow Dan ives on Twitter LinkedIn. Where else? Wedbush.com research anything?

[Dan Ives]

Lovers, haters. I like them all.

[Josh Brown]

All right, that's it from us this week, guys. Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you soon. Take us out.