← The Conscious Entrepreneur | Leadership, Self-Awareness & Mindset
The Conscious Entrepreneur | Leadership, Self-Awareness & Mindset
EP 109: Bootstrapped, Purpose-Driven, and On Fire: The Product Invention of LavaBox
00:37:26
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- [00:00]
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Josh Thurman built Lavabox, a portable campfire that's made from an ammo can. The same way he still guides whitewater by reading the rapids, trusting his instincts, and steering through chaos with purpose. His invention was born from the river and his company was founded on his values. Employing members of the disabled community, donating to protect our rivers, and letting raving fans help shape what comes next with his products. As a 100% bootstrapped owner, Josh protects his profits while still giving back. And he comes out with far more than just smiles. This episode is packed with grit lessons and values and inspiration every entrepreneur can use. Let's get into it. You're listening to the Conscious Entrepreneur and I'm Sarah Lockwood. This is the only podcast completely dedicated to the well being of entrepreneurs. It's where we do the inner work to become the leaders our businesses truly need. A thriving business starts with a thriving you. Let's Get Into It.
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It.
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A
Josh, welcome to the Conscious Entrepreneur podcast. We are so happy to have you here. You know, it's a real treat to get to have someone on the show who is an inventor as well as an entrepreneur as well as an avid outdoorsman. And you have truly been a person who's brought these three things together in such a neat way. Will you tell us a little bit about the story of your background and where Lava Box came from?
- [01:31]
B
Sure. So I'll quickly go through the background. I was really, really lucky to try a bunch of different things in life and mostly out of necessity. Grew up in the D.C. area and was always had an option to be in the city life or in the country life. And it was always like, which one do I pick? If you're familiar with the D.C. just D.C. metro area, there's you can really be in a bucolic country, you know, outdoorsy place in just a few minutes and then you can also be in the heart of the city. And I feel like that was part of what informed my, my life and my kind of thinking about being anything you wanted to be and maybe being more than just one thing. And so this is something that I think people, you know, a lot of people get into myopic sort of mindset that I'm, I'm a thing. Culture loves to tell us that you're a thing, you're a nerd or you're a jock or you're whatever. And you know, and it's always those kind of really cliche pieces that you're like, this is what you are. And I decided that just wasn't my life, I have a degree in culinary arts, strangely enough, love cooking and thought that was going to be my job, and then ended up working for the district attorney's office in Denver. I've worked with people with disabilities, trained Paralympic athletes, worked in expedition work all over the world. So I've had a really crazy, eclectic life that has been really fun. But the entire time, there's one through thread, one thread that poured through everything was always my creativity. And I always wanted to build things and make things and fix things. And so Lava Box really came to be. So it was built directly in service to the Colorado Whitewater Association. I used to sit on their board. I love outdoor sports, as you mentioned, and one of my favorite is whitewater kayaking. So I love teaching kayakers. And then here in Colorado, I'm a raft guide trainer for the state of Colorado. So I teach raft guides to take people down the river safely. And yeah, I was out teaching a class and it got to be about 12 degrees in a kind of an exurb area of Colorado. It gets really cold and nasty. And I. And we had those brown fire pits that you might buy at like Walmart or a big box store. And I said, these are terrible. I'm gonna make something better. There might have been some whiskey. But as an inventor and as a maker and a thinker, people, people all know that I make all my own stuff. And I'm so into all those kind of things. And they're like, hey, you. You think you can make something better? Make it kind of a. Even a taunt. And I said, oh, I will, you know, And I said, and I did. So I went home. I built seven prototypes of the Lava Box, which is a portable campfire. They're all built originally from military style ammo cans. This is something that's ubiquitous in rafting culture where we use them because they're really tough, they're waterproof, they're made for carrying actual ammo in the military. And I went home, cut some, decided that it didn't need to come out of that box. It decided it needed to be the box. So that vessel became the actual product. And I said, why would I mess with something that's just, you know, has been tested by the military? I think it's pretty tough. Added my own burner, designed seven different burners, applied for my patents and went out and sold, gosh, about 40 in about. In about 72 hours. Put it online. People saw it, they taught, everyone was crazy about it. And now we've sold about 20,000 of them in four years.
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A
So wow, that's incredible. And Josh, I love this story because when you think about your bringing, you know, your innate skills, your creativity, your maker's mind and kind of the resilience and challenge, you know, up for a challenge always. I love that you kind of put your passion together with this creativity to bring something to life. And you know, one of the things that is interesting about this project is how much you learned through the course of not just crafting these prototypes and, you know, bringing something to market and getting feedback and iterating on it, but then what the experience was like as an entrepreneur to, to own this intellectual property. This was a pre Covid right at.
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B
The end of 2020. So yeah, right at the, you know, at the moment when we all realized that our lives were going to change.
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A
Absolutely. So you've really been through a gauntlet, as I said, of challenges and, you know, made. So let's start at the very beginning with the first challenges, which is actually like inventing this thing and then, and then creating some ownership of the ip. Could you tell us about what that experience was like and what you learned?
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B
The first iterations of the product were, you know, truly hand built. The first thousand I built in my garage in Denver, I did put in applications. Of course, everything in the federal government, including the patent office, hit the wall as soon as 2021 rolled around. No one was going to the office. Things weren't getting processed, you know, examiners for the patent office weren't going to work. It's really hard to examine physical patents, obviously to discern, you know, their patent ability. You know, when you're at home and you can't see them, you can't feel them, you, you know, you're. I think most people just got put on hold like I did. So my initial patents took years and years and years, but that was a, and that, that already was a hard thing. I think a lot of people ask me, you know, what, what's the value of a patent, especially an initial design patent, Something not as, not as thorough as a utility patent. I think that that process does scare off copycats at some level. It doesn't scare off the savvy ones. I will tell you that the folks that know that they want to knock you off and they want to, that you've got a great idea, they're going to come after you and they're going to do what they want to do. And the only thing I'll say about that just running the gauntlets wise is that there isn't a whole lot of use in challenging a lot of patents in some ways, especially these physical design patents. On my end, I learned a valuable lesson from a friend who makes a really great product, a suction cup roof rack. And he spent a million dollars litigating a patent dispute in France one, but lost a million dollars. And the French company was able to change the patent just enough to make their own product. It was very, very similar. And so I decided that, like in our world right now, I think it's better to put your energy into marketing, to put your energy into new design, self care, you know, all the things that you need to do to be a successful entrepreneur, not necessarily worry about the vindictive nature of some patent infringement.
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A
If I'm hearing you correctly, like what you're, what you're really saying is, you know, have an original idea, go out and chase it and don't spend as much time and money trying to defend, defend what's coming, because it's going to come. And even if it does come, you're not going to, unless you have deep, deep, deep pockets you may not be able to fight.
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B
I think that's right. And I, I think that if you do have something that's fresh or you're, you know, you're iterating something from somebody else, at least you're ahead of, of the next copycat and you have time to, to do the next improvement and the next upgrade. I think that's, you know, it seems, you know, we see this in the world all the time. You see things that, that people just can't catch technology that's out there. I think one thing that has been really interesting is watching technology in the, the EV market kind of chase each other and, and there have been new players coming in, but they certainly built off a lot of what was already out there and they're still chasing them. You know, once Ford decides to drop a new ev, that's going to, you know, decimate a lot of the market. That's just going to happen. And so they're, because they're ahead. And guess my point is that you are ahead. So I wouldn't say don't do it. I mean, go out and definitely try your product and go for it. At least you'll be first. Hopefully you'll be first or you'll be a little bit ahead of the competition. And my dad told me always that, you know, just put your head down and work. He's a working guy and he's like, don't worry about everybody else just work. And I kind of, I've always built that into my business, all my businesses. I've said, look, we're just going to work, we're not going to worry about everybody else. Do we look at them? Sure. Do we do comps? Of course we do. But do we worry about what our IP looks like next to theirs all the time? No. I can't let it pull me down and it certainly doesn't stop our creative team from building the next cool thing.
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A
That's awesome. Now as you're thinking about where the product goes in distribution and so many of the things that you had to solve as a brand new, you had a long way to go from, you know, your hands, every single unit which is not as good, you know, obviously not scalable but you know, you really took this, this product big places, including to shark tank. And I have to think that these conversations about trademarks and IP must have been a part of those conversations, not just with the sharks, which we are definitely going to touch a little bit on that story. But even as you were going into or considering going into the points of distribution such as some of the big box stores, which I have that conversation. So tell me how the IP sort of conversations played into your distribution and financing and all of the next pieces of the story.
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B
Sure. I think it's actually a phenomenal question because it was, it was certainly top of mind in 21. I don't remember, I don't know if everybody remembers how we were shopping then, but I think this was a huge piece of. It was how do I move through a market that's once again not touching anything? They're not trying things on, they're not, you know, there's a, you know, obviously in 21 there was a paranoia to even bring your groceries home without.
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Sure.
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B
You know, sanitizing them. And so I think it was a really important time to just get out there and sell online and focus. Like I said, we were just hyper focused on being direct to consumer because people were. And once again this was also a very strategic play. I thought, you know, just a. Their everyone was home and they were buying stuff and they certainly were still making money. And a lot of them, you know, weren't feeling the economic effects as you know, dramatically as they were through 23. And so I think that they, in 21 they said I see new things, I can, I can go camping, I can enjoy stuff outdoors six feet away from each other without hugging, no high fives. But we, you know, it could do that. And you could have a product that you didn't have to try on, that we could be direct to consumer. And I think it made it a lot more viable for us to start up slow in that capacity. So I think, you know, a lot of folks. I'll tell you a quick story, really right out the gate, I want to say maybe, I don't know, about a year and a half into our. Are really having product out there. After 21, Ace Hardware came to us, they wanted 60,000 units. So a massive buy. And people are gonna. And people watch. They've heard me say this before, and I think they. A lot of people have judged me about it, but it is. They're like, you're crazy. Because I turned it down. I turned down a 60,000 unit purchase at the time. And there's a bunch of factors. We could talk about them, but people were shopping at the store, and I'm not sure I could handle the capacity. And they wanted too much margin. You know, all those pieces came into play. I'm just not sure there was a healthy choice for the business. And now I'm positive it wasn't a healthy choice for the business. But a lot of folks will ask you, like, you know, does distribution look different now? Sure. But back then, it. It didn't feel right to do any of those things. And so. And I was worried about ip. I really was worried about the, you know, worried about Ace not making their own product. REI made their own product. It looks just like ours. So it's out there. You know, it happens. And we've. We've had talks with REI as well, and other big boxes. And I don't know, Sarah, we. I decided. I made a really weird decision last year that we weren't just. We were just not going to work with retailers. Over 3 million gross. And it's been a fun ride.
- [14:10]
A
Well, Josh, I think, you know, you have had strong conviction in your decisions from saying no to Ace, right. To, you know, making some of these other decisions about what the right channels are for your distribution. And I. And I have no doubt many, many others. So once you kind of got to that point with, with the IP and, you know, the next big hurdle, it seems to me, is really this whole question of financing. So, you know, what was that like? And how did you. What were some of the things you considered in order to capitalize this business and be able to, you know, go out there and meet demand?
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B
I was going to say I'm still completely lost on financing. You know, I. So I feel like I don't, I feel like this is one of those things where I just, I just don't know enough. And I know we all feel like we never know enough or not enough. And for me on this one, I, you know, I bootstrapped the project from the very beginning and it is.
- [15:18]
A
You said no to a deal from the sharks.
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B
I did, I did. And I still own 100 of the company. I still have not taken a dime of investment from anyone, which is pretty weird these days, right? I mean, it's a very odd choice. People were throwing money at us, Sarah. I mean, it was, you know, there was no question, especially with the growth we had, just massive, massive growth right out of the gate. You know, hitting seven figures within a year was pretty massive for a product based company. And so people wanted to get in. And I just didn't feel like any of the pieces out there were right. There was a little bit of gut. I don't usually, I'm certain people ask, you know, what kind of leadership and what kind of decision making process do you go through? I don't usually go with a whole lot of gut. I'm kind of a more scientific brain than that. But this didn't feel right to me and I didn't feel like I was in a position to take anybody's money. I was nervous about, you know, having a failure. Still, all those things were going through my mind. I just said, I'm not feeling like I want to jump in with somebody. And I'll be honest with you, I didn't really want to share my passion with some other people. I'm not sure I wanted another boss. I know I could have gone crazy and taking all this money because, gosh, like I said, people really wanted to get in. But I don't know, the slow burn has been okay. And I feel like I mentioned self care earlier. I really think it's important to keep your shit together, especially going through Covid, through tariffs, through, you know, this change in administration out there in the world, like all the things that are happening in the US right now is a huge stressful place. And I just can't imagine trying to manage, you know, a company that may not be making as much money for me either. I think that's an important thing people forget is that yes, we could be doing 10 million a year, but how much money am I making? You know, how much fulfilling am I making? You know, this is part of the ACE equation was that yes, I could sell 60,000 units, but I had to raise 3 million. I would lose. You know, my margin on that was very low. So whose money was I really making? I wasn't making my money. And so I think that's an important thing that people just kind of. I had to explain that to my partner when I got home. She's like, you walked away from a multi million dollar deal with as I did, because I don't think it's a million dollars, you know, multimillion dollar deal for us.
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A
Right. And I think, you know, this is one of those, there are a lot of moments in the life of an entrepreneur where it's you and the decision to be made and it you are the guy who asked or the girl who has to make the call. And when you really look at all of the work that goes into that early, early stage, it's wise to protect what's yours. It's wise to be very considerate about, you know, the, the deals that you make. Because, you know, revenue is one number, but profit is where it's at. Right? I mean, what are we taking home? I think revenue is sort of an ego number and you hear people throw revenue numbers around a lot. But you know, at the end of the day, you know, what I'm most interested in is what I'm taking home and how much of it I'm keeping.
- [18:50]
B
That's right.
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A
That's right.
- [18:51]
B
And I think that's really important. And where you're going to land in that exit. I have to think about the entire time I had this company was where are we when it's time to sell this company? Is it turnkey? Is it make enough money for somebody? And I can say, you're right, our revenues are not over 10, but your profit is X and you will feel strong in this business and you will feel like you are making money because you are. And I think that's an important, like we have a really solid foundation and we always built. I, I'll tell you, I, I always thought of this as a, as a lifestyle brand anyway. And so part of that is authenticity and blowing it up and making it, you know, super commercial right away was completely antithetical to what I was actually trying to do. You know, I think that was the thing that people just forget all the time is like, oh, I'm going to throw, I'm going to dilute the brand, throw it out the window to make money.
- [19:44]
A
When you talk about, you know, thinking of founding this company and having a vision from the beginning of, you know, how you wanted to run it and the values that you wanted to Live by day to day. And you call it a lifestyle brand. Tell me more about what that means to you because I know that you are a guy who's a 12 hour a day guy and what's the next thing? And I wouldn't say that it's a grind. I mean I don't see you as a grinder or even a hustler in a negative sense of it, but I also don't see you as a lifestyle, you know, type of guy in, in a negative way.
- [20:25]
B
In my lifestyle. And the way I designed Loudbox was that it's a work hard, play hard place without being so, so, you know, ridiculously cliche, but it is piece a piece of it. But in my world as an athlete, which is what my, you know, my core, to me that's a big part of me is being an athletic and I, I like the grind of athleticism too, you know, and I, and I think that is something, that's why you see a lot of athletes who become entrepreneurs. It's just, you know, I mean, I, I can't, I couldn't swim all the laps that, what's his name, you know, Phelps could swim because I don't think I'd get bored. But, but his abilities just grind makes him a champion. And I think there's a piece of that is, is really important that you're able to put your head down and just get it done and do it for as long as it takes, you know, Once again, building a thousand lava boxes in my garage was not super fun, but it's what it took.
- [21:25]
A
And where do you think that comes from? You know, and I agree with you that, that you do see that an anti grind mentality, you know, like the conscious entrepreneur, isn't necessarily to say that there aren't times that you are doing that really hard work and you have to do, you have to, you have to do that at times and you have to be equal to the task. Right. But I think there's finding that resilience from within and finding ways to do it intentionally and in a way that's somewhat balanced. And maybe balance is isn't even the right word.
- [22:05]
B
No, I think balance is the right word. I think you're exactly right. I. You'll look at our, when we're actually open, we're open four days a week. My employees don't work more than four days a week, period. They get paid for five days a week, but they work four days a week. And that's just part of having fun, you know, like it was always going to be a fun company. Like, we make fire pits and we, and the fun has to just like cooking or anything else. The, the love has to be baked in, right? The fun has to be baked in to the whole project. If you go on our website, you're gonna laugh, you're gonna have a good time, you're gonna see that it's, it's more about fun than anything else. And you're exactly right. I also think that you're, you just are, you know, you're not a big, you're not a good creator when you're, when you're grinding. Only like, I, I have to step out of that and have a good time and let my brain wander and, you know, smell new smells and touch new things and feel it differently to make, make the next cool thing, you know, And I think that that doesn't happen at work all the time. That's hard to believe, but somehow we.
- [23:20]
A
Don'T find that inspiration behind our laptop. I love that you're talking about, you know, how this lifestyle value, the values of the lifestyle brand kind of reach into the way that you manage your team and the choices that you make as a leader. Can you talk more about other things besides your four work week?
- [23:41]
B
Yeah, I, I, so, so I told you, I came from a world where I did a lot of, a lot of my work. A lot of my past life was guiding and, and taking people to places that they'd never been and giving them peak experiences that they'll never forget. And this is something that, like, I, I think people just don't do enough. We're not here very long. It's important for us to go out and do things that are indelible in our minds that, that just stay there and we savor and we go back to and say, wow, that was such a cool thing. And, you know, that's where storytelling, you know, starts and where the true hominid idea is from. And so I think that making sure my employees and everyone that we talk to and everybody we interact with has some kind of weird peak life experience. We bring the entire community into our business. So it's, it's run by people with disabilities. We figure out ways to make accommodations so that people can come and build lava boxes and work there. We have folks with down syndrome, adults with all kinds of developmental disabilities, intellectual disabilities, physical disabilities, and then just kind of an array of folks who come in and work and they build lava boxes and they star in videos, and we have great conversations and it's really fun. And I think that is probably what fills most folks cups. You know, they come in and they get to do that and we all go have lunch together and make a big scene and have fun and drink beers and. Yeah, I think it's a really cool way to give everybody a little uplift, you know, And I'm not like, I don't know, I'm not always looking for like some cheesy way to make my employees feel better. And I'm not trying to throw a pizza party. I'm trying to find ways that are, that are actually meaningful to them. And that's always a challenge. Right? We always are trying to figure out that thing. And most of them I just ask them. But this part of it is just part of the business that we bring in folks and try to create that experience for them too. Everybody gets to have a peak experience.
- [25:42]
A
Yeah, I love that. Well, and it really is. I'm impressed by the different ways that you've brought your life experiences and your values and learnings into this new entity and kind of brought, you know, the lessons that you've learned in those places into, into Lavabox and even bringing it on to your customers. So there is also a, a give back portion of your of purchases. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
- [26:12]
B
Yeah, love to. Actually. That's one of my favorite parts. Thank you for asking. So at the same time we started Lavabox, another Sarah, good Sarah friend, was starting another project. And I have a lot of background, my master's in non profit management. And so helping her establish her 501c3 for protectourrivers.org and so a huge portion of our, our money goes to that, that organization. We do river cleanups all over the country. Big piece of my life is about restoration and reclamation of rivers. And so I really want to see us be good stewards. And I thought, man, I could, I could make a big difference in this way. We have really big partners, wonderful partners in that now we're nationwide in just four years. So I'm very proud of where we've come as far, as far as we've come with Protect Our River. It's kind of unbelievable sometimes. In fact, this, this weekend we have our biggest event of the year for a party. We have a big party that celebrates it and we actually are doing it in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management. It's the National Public Lands Day. And so we have a big party and we do a big cleanup on the Colorado river. And it's just a big Celebration of a year of cleaning up and reclamation. It's a pretty good celebration. So I love that part. Yeah, that is a big part of the business. I wouldn't do the business without it, to be honest. This is a big piece of it. If I couldn't give back, I wasn't going to do it anyway. And so that's just, that's just endemic. It's part of it.
- [27:46]
A
So there's so much, I hear so much like satisfaction and pride in your voice when you're talking about these aspects of your business, which is really lovely. Right, because it's so hard to be an entrepreneur and you've had challenge after challenge after challenge in this, in this young business. So, you know, as you're thinking about, you know, other entrepreneurs who are facing those tough times and maybe aren't enjoying the fruits of their labor, aren't able to sit back and say, wow, look at how I got through all of this. But instead they're looking down the barrel of those scary moments or those, those late nights. Like, what kind of, what kind of wisdom do you think you could, you could share about how to find that, that grit and that resilience to, you know, tough it out or, you know, get up and do it again the next day?
- [28:38]
B
I, I, you know, I don't know if I have a ton of wisdom, but I, I do tell people that, you know, it's, it's, it's not a binary thing. It's not a, you either have it or you don't. And so I think it had you to remind yourself and be kind to yourself that it's okay, maybe you don't have it today, but tomorrow maybe you'll have a little bit more. I don't know. That's, I have to tell myself that all the time. Like this is, didn't go well today, you know, some major problems. I got something stuck. You know, just, you know, the terrace was a great example where we just couldn't get anything, you know, and now and then consumer confidence was dropping so fast and a pro and a product that we know is good, you know, that people really enjoy. Thousands and thousands of five star reviews and been tons of beautiful letters written from all kinds of people about how much it changed their lives and they got to enjoy a time with their family around the fire, which is like our most core thing right from the time we, you know, there were, there were, there were people. We've been doing this and so it's, I have to tell myself that those pieces are just not Going to be there all like, we're not going to get beat up all the time. And I hope the tariffs once again, you know, we don't know anything right now. But, you know, I had to really push myself through because I was like, God, we're not, we're not going to make it. 2024 was tough. 2025, we're back in a big, big way. But it was, that was the resiliency then was, was at least I had a cash, right? I had a, I knew, I knew we could do it. Like, that's part of the resiliency quotient.
- [30:08]
A
What is your practice that helps you say to yourself? It's that self talk inside that, you know, okay, I got punched in the face today, but I'm probably not going to get punched in the face as hard tomorrow.
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B
Self talk is real. People, I think, really discount what that looks like. But those affirmations and making sure you know, you're still there and you're real and you're, you're doing it is okay to say that to yourself, like, I got this.
- [30:35]
A
Because you do.
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B
You probably do probably surprise yourself. You know, it's. I have to remind, you know, as a guide, you remind customers constantly that it's going to be okay and we're going to get through this. Because I push people hard, you know, like they, it's the hardest thing they've ever done in their whole lives, the scariest thing they've ever done their whole lives. And they're. That's on my shoulders. And now, you know, you got to figure out how to push them through that piece. So then on the other side, they go, that was something that I'll never forget and it changed me. And so I do think you have to find ways to produce that feeling.
- [31:07]
A
And then, you know, in terms of other, you know, practices that are, that are useful for you in terms of just, you know, visioning, I guess as you're talking about setting goals, how much are you still operating as kind of the, the visionary in, in a vacuum, as a solo, you know, owner own 100, have control of 100%. How much are you bringing in other leaders from the company into this sort of visioning and into this goal setting and how much management is going on for you?
- [31:41]
B
All right, you'll laugh. I, I like to bring everybody in on everything. I know not everybody likes that. It's just the way I operate. Once again, I really believe that people see and know things that I just don't see and know. And so as an artist and I definitely feel like I live in that space. On the design side, I'm constantly looking for feedback, looking for new ideas. I use the community a ton. We're so lucky, like sometimes, I mean, obviously there are things we don't like about social media, but God, you know, finding a product that's going to get traction and that people actually like, it's out there and people are going to tell you what it is. It's so funny if you're not hearing them like, you know, yes, you have to have the conviction and the, you know, the wherewithal to just push it through and believe in a product. But there also is like this incredible bank of amazing ideas that are just sitting there. Everyone's telling you a great example is that we got a lot of feedback about the height of the lava box and where it sits on the ground. And it's not trite. It's a really important aspect of the product. And so I really leaned on people who had made all kinds of strange things on the Internet, let them show them to me all the time. Because we always want to build fans. We're always, we don't have a lot of, I mean, I don't use that term. I think it's kind of weird to say their fans, not customers. They're customers, but they, but they are customers that are almost in a cult. You know, they want to show me exactly the cool thing they're making because they know I appreciate it, because I do. You know, I think it's really cool what they made. And so a lot of times we'll get that inspiration from there. But as a, you know, once again, I'm still, I'm still, I'm still producing those things by myself. But all of that comes from a massive community driven, collective hive mind place. Once again, to your point earlier, you're still making the decision, right? You're still saying, this is the one, I'm going for it. But the MVP model still applies. The minimum viable product idea. Put it out there, try it, test it, analyze, decide if it really works. You know, be very honest with yourself and then, you know, keep it or scrap it. I don't get so hung up on the fact that it's my baby. None of that garbage goes through my mind. And I mean, I may not, I may not be much of a, of someone who's into nostalgia, but I know how to, I know how to leverage nostalgia, right? So we'll take a product, we'll look at it, we'll say, when I Say we. It's mostly me and a couple other people. We'll say, you know, does this, does this make you feel a certain way? Does it bring back memories? Does it fit into our brand? And if it doesn't, and it doesn't and we put it out there and it doesn't work, we throw it away. There's not even like a second like, hey, let's hang on to this. We just launched a product called the Boombox. I personally don't. I mean, some people liked it, but I gotta sell a hundred thousand of them, not 50 of them. And so. And I didn't like it enough, so I threw it away.
- [34:43]
A
I heard an amazing. I had an amazing insight into a conversation the other day with Melissa from Melissa and Doug Toys.
- [34:51]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [34:53]
A
Okay. Some. A billion dollar toy company.
- [34:55]
B
Amazing.
- [34:55]
A
And she was talking about how many of the products that she really loved, and she's a creator and inventor and she said that many of her products were simply launched before their time and many of the things that didn't work would be put on a shelf and then two or three years later brought out and they became best sellers. So, Josh, maybe the things that didn't work don't throw them away, but put them on a shelf.
- [35:24]
B
No, you're right. You're right. That was the wrong, wrong thing to say because I do love them. You know, like, we made a. We made our. The first fire pit that had an oven inside, so called the Boombox. Nobody had seen that. No one had thought of doing that. It was a really odd idea and it was like a strange, you know, chimera of a stove and the fire pit. And we call it the Boombox. It looks like a boombox from the 80s, so it has a really cool feel to it. I love the product. But once again, I knew I wasn't going to sell 10,000 of them. It's really fastidious, hard to make, and has too many moving parts for me. But I think you're exactly right. I think when. And Melissa too, I think is when it's, when it's time for it, we will bring it back out.
- [36:10]
A
I love it. This has been such a fun conversation and I appreciate so much you sharing, you know, your very unique experiences. And it's not often you talk to somebody who is an artist, an inventor, an entrepreneur, an athlete, a volunteer. You are truly, you know, a unique individual. And I love how you've brought all of these things into one sort of beautiful business and one amazing, many amazing products now. But an original, the OG Lava Box. You know, that that's really contributing not just to, like, the enjoyment of people's experiences outdoors, but also then to, you know, nonprofit organizations that are even serving that community in bigger ways. So I think you've done a beautiful job with what you've created, and I truly appreciate you kind of sharing some of your wisdom and experiences with our listeners.
- [37:06]
B
This was such a fun, fun thing to do. So thank you.
- [37:10]
A
Thanks for listening to the Conscious Entrepreneur. Every episode here is meant to sharpen how you lead and how you live. If something landed for you, please share it. Founder to founder. I'll meet you here next week.