B (3:12)

I think I was like your consummate overachiever, you know, went to Princeton, was an athlete, started my own company at 27, was like Forbes 30 under 30, first round capital backed company, kind of had like done all the things right and my life looked very perfect. You know, I was running the startup, had a beautiful partner, was living in New York City. And I think just there was this idea that something outside of myself was going to make me happy and that if I just perfectly organized everything and did everything perfectly, then I would feel good. And I think at about towards the end of my 20s, that strategy just stopped working and I started to realize that actually like that's not how this game of life works. And it was really interesting because what I think happened to me and happens to many people, that that strategy actually works really well for a while. And then it's kind of almost like there's this higher order force that's influencing things that says we're not going to let you do that anymore. Like everything is not going to go well. And it's usually when things start to get really difficult that people are forced to reevaluate and turn inward. I just kind of realized like three and a half years into my last startup, like, why don't I feel better? You know, like, why am I so intense? Why am I constantly stressed out? And the confusing thing was is I had been meditating for six years at this point. I had been to therapy. I had done a lot of typical interventions that people do when they're not feeling good. And it was really my first plant medicine experience with ayahuasca that kind of just completely opened me up to a bigger perspective about reality and why I'm here and really how to feel good. And at that point, you know, my inner world and consciousness became really the top interest in my life. And for about a year I wondered, okay, if, if this like whole way of feeling good and seeing truth is a conscious is a function of consciousness and spirituality and ancient wisdom and all of these kind of traditional roads to working on one self awareness and evolution. What am I doing working at a startup? Like, what am I doing company building? Like, should I go be if I'm really going to take this seriously and go all in like I have done at every other portion of my life, Which I think is the case For a lot of entrepreneurs, like, 20 minutes meditating before work isn't going to cut it. And I'd already been doing that for six years. And so there was this real question and curiosity like, well, how the heck do I take this seriously, you know, while running a business? Is that even possible? And about a year, you know, I think I do what a lot of people do, which is like, who are on a call. Conscious entrepreneur is like, they change the books they read, they change the podcasts they read, they start going to classes, they start doing all this stuff outside of work. But eventually it still feels very compartmentalized. And I've, and I've talked to a lot of founders who are like, dude, honestly, all I want to do is like, read spiritual texts and meditate all day. But, like, I'm in this, like, company I started, and that's like, exactly where I was, where I was still viewing them as separate, distinct things. And I was fortunate enough to meet a teacher who's like, you know, your, your spiritual path, your way of expanding your awareness, involving. It's not going to a retreat every weekend, it's not doing more psychedelics, it's not meditating five hours a day. It's noticing how you're resisting life unfolding as it is every moment of every day. And guess what? Like, your company and your business is an incredible place to do that because your natural state is one of open heartedness, peace, and acceptance of life as it is. And so anytime that you're taken out of that state, it's an opportunity to see which aspect of your consciousness is causing that reaction. And so very quickly, my, my main spiritual practice became noticing every time I was disturbed, noticing every time my heart was closed while while building a company, while hiring people, while living in New York City, while doing all these things. And I realized very quickly that, like, wow, like, entrepreneurship and business is an incredible dojo for personal awareness and transformation. You just need to start to focus your attention in a particular way. I think, like, the first core understanding is that, like, your reactions, like when you're in that state is like, there's some aspect of your consciousness, probably subconscious, that's just like on autopilot, right? That's like, based on something that probably happened to you or as a kid. And so anytime you're reacting that way, it's like a cue that, hold on, okay? There's something inside of me that's causing me to behave like that. And what happens is, what I noticed is, like, a lot of times like that would happen. In the middle of something, I wouldn't have time to process that, like, in the middle of a meeting or whatever. So I. What I started to do is I created a note on my phone called the Freedom Log, where I would write these instances down, and then I would later take them into a contemplative practice that I can share with you to understand, like, okay, why did I just freak out when a client didn't get back to me quickly? You know, like, why did I just freak out when, like, my employee, like, did something that I thought was stupid? And. And so I would write these things down, and then I would bring them into this practice where the core idea is, is to kind of access that experience, welcome whatever comes up, accept what you discover, and then eventually replace it with new information and use your consciousness to do that. And so a lot of times what would happen is that I would have, like, here's a perfect example. This happened today with my wife, where I spent, like, an hour watching our daughter. I, like, put her on. I, like, got her ready for school, and then she. She walks in the house from getting coffee, and she's like, oh, it's too hot for this outfit. And I was, like, really upset. You know, I was like. I was like, okay, I've just been, like, running around for an hour, you know.

A (9:58)

And you felt criticized, maybe.

B (10:02)

What I. What I felt was unappreciated.

A (10:04)

Yeah.

B (10:04)

And I went into that experience afterwards, and I was able to trace that back to an event in, I think, a little league baseball where I was felt underappreciated. And so that. That. That situation had created a pattern of, like, when this. The external environment looks like this, feel like this and that. That's how our consciousness functions. It creates these shortcuts in order to help us move through the world safely and efficiently. And many of them were created when we're kids and we didn't really understand much. And so part of our job as people on a consciousness path is to, like, identify and discover and heal those. Those things that we're still carrying that are still playing on repeat. And so that. That. That process that I just described of, like, writing it down, bringing it in, identifying, welcome, accepting, facing, accepting, and replacing is. Was core. And there's like, many, many little nuances in that. And. And I would also say too, like, what happens is, is that the more you do that, the more you're able to do it in real time. And. And so, like, for me, it's like, obviously it's like a really good thing when you feel emotions coming up, like to feel them as much as you can in real time and allow them to be there, but you can actually reach a state where you can be having something happen and you can be going into your subconscious and understanding what's causing that and replacing it while having a conversation. And that takes a lot of effort. But, or just like for me, I've been doing this every day for about seven years. You know, it takes time to build those muscles and to be able to kind of unlock these layers, but it's like the most incredible thing ever.

A (12:02)

So your note taking hack is a great one. So this practice of, hey, this is when I noticed I've felt this way. I'm feeling it in my body, I'm feeling this resistance, I'm feeling anger, upset, disrespect, unfairness. I mean there's a million things that you may feel. Um, and just sort of taking note of those and then blocking out time to go back and then just sort of really spend time with each one of those things that triggered you and try to understand what really happened inside your mind that brought such a strong emotional reaction. Right.

B (12:36)

Yeah, I think that's the essence of it. And you know, as you do that, what you will notice is, is that your automatic responses to life will change. You know, you will have this similar situation with a client not responding or your partner under feeling, underappreciating you or whatever it is, and all of a sudden it's not a big deal. Right? And that's because it's like you're changing your source code, you're cut, you're getting back to the original like, operating system that you had before it was, you know, imprinted with all these experiences that created all these patterns.

A (13:11)

In your new book, the Conscious Accomplishment, you talk a little bit about your own journey. You're obviously doing big things in this world and you had a very full life in New York, sold your startup. I mean, that's all some very big, big stuff. So as you started to kind of turn inward and start feeling dissatisfied with everything that was happening in your work world, what, what do you think helped you to come back and say, no, both of these things can, can work together. How can these things be one path as opposed to being like this diurcated world?

B (13:49)

I think first, I would definitely like to again give credit to finding a teacher who explicitly told me so. But I think even still then what happens is, is that there's often this pendulum that occurs where it's like people are incredibly externally fixated then they realize that they are playing the kind of the wrong game or approaching happiness in a circuitous way. And then they go all in the inner work, right? And they're obsessed with inner work. And you kind of have to do that a little bit. I think if you've been like, extremely external fixated to get to a place where you recognize that I. I don't think that's quite it either. It's like I still have this desire to create things and to contribute and to feel my creativity and my essence and expression. And, you know, at that point, it's kind of like you start to open up to this idea of, like, maybe it's a both end, maybe, maybe it's a weave. And I think, like, a lot of us, like, have to go on that journey. Where you spend. For me, it was 30 years of external fixation. Like, you know, I had to go through an internal fixation period of like a year or two. And it was really hard. And I was doing it while running my company. It was like, I was there, but my. My mind was elsewhere. Like, my interests were elsewhere. I was kind of an attendant to the company while on this spiritual exploration.

A (15:18)

What had to change? What had to change? You said you had a teacher, but, you know, what did the teacher unlock for you that. That gave you this clarity that these things needed to be or could be at 1.

B (15:29)

I think it was the pointing of, like, every time you're disturbed, that's an opportunity for conscious evolution if you choose it. And me, me starting to like, write those things down and like, I'm disturbed like five to ten times a day. I thought I was the master of my life. And here I am a servant actually to these unconscious patterns. I didn't choose. And so. So, like, I think like, a few months of like, doing that was like a holy shit. Like, I'm not even in control of my own. Like, I'm kind of responding to an automatic reaction to something inside of me. Like, that is not free will. That's not freedom, in my opinion. That's like basically being like a bludgeon for like a bunch of programming and conditioning. And so just like seeing that and then also seeing the fruits of the labor, right? So it's like, okay, cool, I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna start using these. And then being in that situation be like, huh, I've changed. The situations have changed, but I've changed. Not. Not kind of like stoking a real. Okay, this is like a more direct way to work on How I show up and how I experience reality. And so that was. That was a. That was like, the real unlock was just like doing the work, you know. And I also started to. What I would also share is that I started to realize just kind of like, how this stuff actually improved my capacity for leadership and business and entrepreneurship. And I think like, before. Before weaving them right, there's always this, like, tenuous connection that people have where it's like, oh, yeah, like, if I do mindfulness stuff, like, I'll be a little less triggered and like, I'll be a nicer person and I'll be less stressed. And that's like a very surface level understanding of, like, the relationship between awareness and consciousness and your capacity as an entrepreneur. And I think once I started to see, like, wait a second, I'm not just understanding why I am the way that I am, but this awareness stuff is helping me see, like, the fundamental laws that govern this time space continuum, this reality that I'm in. And if I can see those, I can align my actions to those, and then that can actually create better outcomes. And so, like, that. That, to me, that recognition of, like, what awareness is really pointing to, which is the capacity to see the true nature of things, that was like, yeah, obviously this needs to be interwoven. It's like, this is the most fundamental thing I could be spending time on.

A (18:30)

That's so exciting. And then that led you to start a couple new things, like your book and like, Conscious Talent, right?

B (18:41)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the book. The book was after I had sold the company, I had a friend who basically confided in me and like, I had no intention of writing the book actually. And a friend basically was like, I was sharing with him some of these stories that. Of stuff I've been through. And he's like, this is like the most meaningful conversation I've ever had in my life. And he's like. And I'm like, well, that's crazy because I'm just sharing that happened to me. And then later that day, like, I just got a download that it was like, I needed to write a book and I just followed it. And so, you know, that was how I ended up writing a book. And. And the same thing happened with Conscious Talent where there was no. One of the things I talk about in. In conscious accomplishment is this, like, move from, like, basically like in means to an end action orientation where it's like, you're doing things because you think it will get you somewhere. Right? So, like, I'm going to build a business so that I can make a lot of money. I'm going to prioritize my high priority, high, high urgency activities because I think they will have the biggest needle on my move the needle on my business. That's certainly a way that a lot of people have been very successful at creating a lot of things. But there is another form of action that I would call inspired action where it's kind of like you're just, you're just tuning into like what is it that you actually want to do in a given moment and following the breadcrumbs that life is leading around you of, of what's emerging. And I had, I had done that after I sold my company with starting a community for entrepreneurs on a consciousness path called Founder Satsang. And basically that was just. I didn't know what it was going to become. There was no purpose to it. I just kind of wanted it to exist and felt this pull. And, and through that community there's, there started to be entrepreneurs reaching out to me and saying, hey, I want to find a COO or a chief of staff. And they like kind of need to get this stuff because it's core to my life and it's also core to like the company and the culture we're trying to build. And so like, and I had experienced what it was like to be on this consciousness journey and to be like having all these crazy metaphysical experiences and people around me just having no idea what the frick was going on and me not feeling like I could even talk about it.

A (21:21)

Right.

B (21:21)

So. So at work, at work, at work, at work.

A (21:25)

Yep.

B (21:26)

And so like, it's like, how do you tell an employee that you're making a decision because your higher self instructed you to? Like, there's like just like things, certain things are just, it's just not gonna make sense to people if they're not on this type of path.

A (21:44)

And let's get, and let's be real. There are some companies where that isn't a conversation that is going to make sense or where that type of conversation would be welcome. And if you are the founder or the co founder and you're changing, you know, you could very easily be in a situation where you have a vision, a shared vision at the beginning with a co founder where you have maybe this more external way of thinking and you're evolving. You know, as you said, people are going through this experience and they're starting to lose interest in maybe the external world and be a little bit more internally focused. So Holy moly. That can lead to a lot of resistance, culture, shift, change. You know, when you're. You're trying to kind of come to decision making and leading with that new layer, and it may not be welcomed by your team, by your co founders, by the people around you. Do you have advice for something?

B (22:43)

Yeah, I mean, that's like, exactly what I went through was like, I build a company that I don't fit in anymore, you know, and that's what happens. And what I would say is that the process of kind of stepping into authenticity around this is a gradual process. I. I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs, they go do ayahuasca, they come back and they're like, oh, look at all the I've learned. And everyone's like, you know, and. And so, like, I think it's really about, like, taking your time and gradually starting to reveal more of yourself to people that you feel like are ready to have that conversation and not doing some kind of, like, full overhaul type of thing. And also, just like, a gradual integration, right? It's like, okay, this stuff's more important to you. Like, maybe it hasn't been for the first five years of your business. Cool. In your new hiring matrix, maybe, like, some type of interest or openness to some type of inner development is now something that you ask a question about. Right? And so I think just like, for existing businesses, like, gradual integration and sharing more of yourself is. Is a. Is a steady path. And I think with, you know, when you're starting, like, ultimately, like, the leadership team to me is like, if you want to build that type of culture over a long term, it's like, you just have to get everybody on the leadership team speaking the same language, you know, because otherwise it's like, you could be on this path, but like, everybody else who's, like, essentially shaping culture in a bigger way is just not on the same page. And so that. And I've seen. What I've seen too, is like, I don't think this is a bad thing. Like, a lot of people be like, all right, cool, we're going to hire a conscious leadership coach to come in and do a seminar, right? And, like, and it's like, a really exciting one day, right? But then what happens? Like, everybody kind of reverts back. And I think what we're saying with conscious talent is like, hey, if this is what's. If this is really what's important to you and you really do want to build this type of team, go find the people that are already on the journey, you know what.

A (25:05)

Which is outstanding. I mean, absolutely. And I think that as we're kind of coming to a season of planning and looking at 2026, thinking about new hires, thinking about what we want to, what went well, what we want to build, what we want to shift, thinking about the makeup of our leadership team, thinking about who we're going to hire, performance management. It's a really neat thing for the leaders that are listening to the show to, to understand that Conscious Talent is a talent network and a staffing agency. Right. So you guys are essentially help people, help companies match with talent that share this, this ideal of having a more, as you call it, woven relationship between your professional life and your inner work in your inner world. And I think you are offering something that is really new and fresh because it's hard to, you don't see this on someone's resume. So it's, it's hard to evaluate.

B (26:09)

It is, yeah. I mean, I definitely think, you know, it's one of the challenges where I think today our professional network is like essentially in the consciousness of like, what have I done? Right? Skills, experience, blah blah, blah. And it, it's not who am I becoming? That information is not digitally accessible. Right. And, and I think like that that's the shift that we're, we're going to start to see and we're seeing more of in terms of how we evaluate the people and the, what we, what work means to us, right? It's like people just want to bring more of themselves to their, to their work. Right. And, and I, and I. One of the interesting things, there's this idea called becoming a deliberately developmental organization and a book called An Everyone Culture. And the whole idea is that like the purpose of the business is not just profit, but it's also the evolution of everyone involved. And one of the things they talk about, because a lot of questions are like, okay, cool, like, yeah, I get it would be nice to work around conscious people, but like, how is this actually going to like move the needle? And one of the things that this book talks about is like the amount of effort and attention that people place to not fully expressing themselves. Like, like, okay, I'm going to show this, I'm not going to show this. Like, okay, I'm going to like contort myself this way, right, to look good in this meeting or like, like it's an, it's a full time job that people don't even know they have. And it's also a full time drain on creativity and energy that could be focused on pushing the company forward. And so I think there's just like a lot of magical unlocks that are available for businesses that invite just a greater portion of the human to the workplace, including this inner work and transformation stuff.

A (28:08)

That is so cool. I'm sure you're getting a tremendous response. Are you hearing more from companies who are looking for people to hire that have these values? Or is it the converse? Are there more candidates who are looking for placement in these types of companies? What are you seeing?

B (28:24)

I would say more candidates. You know, more candidates. Like we have, you know, some great companies that we work with. Everybody from top AI startups, YC companies, all kinds of interesting businesses. But like we'll have certain roles that have gotten a thousand applications in a day. And, and, and I think there's just like such pent up demand in amongst leaders out there and people like, I don't want to just work at a job for a paycheck. Like, I don't want to like do this kind of be myself kind of not thing anymore. It's like I really want to have meaning, I want to have purpose. I want to feel like I'm growing. I want to do something that matters in the world. And yeah, so we're seeing a ton of demand for that. And I think, I think for the companies that are like, like how if I putting on my founder hat here and I'm seeing this with my own company, it's like in a world where so, so many companies are afraid to own this, like they're like afraid to go there, right? You know, because they don't want to look weird or turn anybody off or is like, is this even okay, like to talk about this stuff, like actually like owning it is a strategic advantage for recruiting because there's a lot of people that want this. And like, if that's like truly how you feel like you're gonna attract those people and they're gonna, they're gonna be down to maybe take a little bit of a pay cut or leave a really cushy job or whatever it is because they can't get this in a lot of places right now.

A (30:03)

Yeah, they place a value on this type of environment that's different than the external factors that you may have traditionally used to evaluate the right fit. That's great. Well, a lot of the people listening to this podcast own companies and are hiring managers and are creating culture. And so for them to become aware of the conscious talent, talent, network and recruiting that you offer, I think is exciting. I think it's really, really a special way to connect people that have these shared values.

B (30:36)

Thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, if this, if what I'm saying resonates, you know, you can just find us@conscious talent.com and, and we can help. And I think, I mean to me like this is like this is just where it's going. Like I just think this is just where company building is going and it's not going to go there for every business. Right. Like my wife has a parallel recruiting firm that, that she's my co founder that you know, serves like some of the fastest growing AI companies. And it is that Silicon Valley culture of like be a slave to work hyperscale and like it's toxic. Like a lot of the like things that I see are happening, like yeah, people are getting rich and hyperscaling but like people are also burning out, people are also happy people. More and more people are saying this isn't worth it, you know, like it's not cool anymore. And I just think that this like more conscious company building type of approaches is like what more and more the population desires and wants and will continue to desire as more people go on this path.

A (31:53)

Well, I think this is a really natural extension of what you explored in your book, Conscious Accomplishment. You know, really kind of going through this yourself, your own transformation of coming to this realization and then creating a place for more people who, who share your beliefs to, to find one another. And so it's, it's really a natural evolution as I see it, and a very exciting one. So I'm, I'm really glad we got to talk about that today. Is, is there any like last thoughts you would, you would leave with for a leader who is sort of in that place you were at when you were feeling maybe the most disinterested, the most sort of frustrated and non fitting in your own company? Like what could you share with them to help them sort of catapult through that stage, if it's even possible.

B (32:44)

Yeah. So let me say this will be very frustrating advice, but the easiest way to accept, the easiest way to move through any type of transformational crucible or process is to accept exactly where you're at and what's happening. And so like, you know, the more you fight and say like it shouldn't be like this or like why does nobody get it? Or like the more you do that, like the longer and harder and it's going to be as you resist and the more it's like, yeah, you know what, I'm just gonna accept that like I feel out of fish out of like a fish out of water. And like I feel frustrated that I feel misunderstood. You know, like the more that you just kind of like be with whatever that situation is stoking, the easier it's going to be to move through it. And I also think the more likely that things will shift around you in a way that feels good.

A (33:51)

Good advice, good advice. Thank you for sharing that Scott.

B (33:56)

Well, thank you for the opportunity. It's been really fun jamming on this stuff with you and like I said earlier, I just love, I love what the Conscious Entrepreneur podcast stands for and the change is helping shepherd in the world.

A (34:11)

Thank you very much. Thanks for listening to the Conscious Entrepreneur. Every episode here is mentor. Sharpen how you lead and how you live. If something landed for you, please share it founder to founder. I'll meet you here next week.