← The Copywriter Club Podcast
The Copywriter Club Podcast
TCC Podcast #426: The Way to Better Content with Heather Parady
00:55:14
The world is drowning in content—most of it bad. So when a creator is doing something different, something that really stands out and challenges the rest of us to up our game, we pay attention. That's why Content Strategist Heather Parady is our guest ...
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- [00:00]
Heather Parody
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Rob Marsh
Is everywhere. Almost every business knows that content is one avenue that helps prospects discover and connect with them. I'm not telling you anything new here. Most copywriters work with clients who need this content, whether it's on social media, regular emails, videos, workshop and webinar content. We even use it ourselves. So when I discover someone who's making content that stands out or is even just a little bit different, I pay attention. And today's guest on the Copywriter Club podcast fits that description. Hi, I'm Rob Marsh, and today I'm speaking with content strategist Heather Parody. I've been watching Heather's content for a while now, and I've got to say I'm impressed. She connects ideas from interviews and books and all kinds of other sources to create short video content that grabs attention and teaches with story almost always giving me something to think about. This is one of my favorite interviews of this year, and I think you're not only going to enjoy it, but you're going to have a bunch of takeaways to apply to your own business and content creation. But before we jump in as we wrap up the year, I need to let you know that the Copywriter accelerator as it is today, is going to go away forever. This is the proven business building program used by hundreds of copywriters to start and grow their businesses. And I guarantee it will work for you, too. But to get the eight modules, eight blueprints, and the bonus bonuses and the coaching calls that go along with it, you need to opt in now. And if you decide to join the accelerator now, you'll get absolutely free the program that I'm working on right now behind the scenes that's going to replace it. I don't even have a name for that new thing yet, but just know that it's going to be worth it. And if you don't agree, you get all of your money back. Go to TheCopyWriterClub.com FastTrack for details now. And with that, let's go to our interview with Heather Parody. Heather, welcome to the podcast. I. I'm thrilled to be here. You know, as we were just talking before we started recording, I'm a big fan of yours. I would love to start with your story and how you got to where you are building this list, this following that you have, you know, video producer, all of the things. Yeah. How did you get there?
- [02:18]
Heather Parody
Well, first of all, thanks for having me on. I was listening to your show and I'm just really impressed with the quality of guests and the topics and how thorough you guys are and professional. It's just really, really valuable. Valuable show that I look forward to continually listening to now.
- [02:33]
Rob Marsh
Thank you.
- [02:34]
Heather Parody
Yeah, I was a therapist. You know, I went to school to sit in rooms with people and hear their problems and sort it out. I love psychology of trying to figure out why we are the way that we are. And I've always been kind of like a helper, you know, I think through and through. That's really who I am. So it's funny because a lot of people are kind of coming to me for, like, the media side of stuff. They're like video editing and all this stuff. And I'm like, that's something that I'm learning how to do. It's not something that I've been doing all along. What I've been doing all along is sitting with people and reading books on Adler and Carl Jung and stuff like that. So I'm kind of a mental health therapist turned media person. Short story is, at some point, I really just fell into the world of personal development and the online space. It's probably about 10 years ago. And I was just really drawn to this idea that you could create something from nothing and reinvent your life and all the possibilities there. And I really loved the freedom, the idea, which is funny because I work, like, so hard and so long, so I'm laughing at the whole freedom thing, but this idea that you can make your own path, especially. I was pregnant at the time with my first daughter and, you know, really torn with going into the workforce and wanting to be with her and so forth. So very reluctantly, very reluctantly, I turned down a whole bunch of therapy jobs, and we moved perfect jobs and cried and talked hours and hours to my husband, bless his heart, and. And said, I think I want to build something online and figure out my voice here. It has been so messy, Rob. I started off podcast editing. I started off. I did photography. I managed people's calendars. I did everything and anything. And what I didn't know then is skill stacking, how valuable that was, because now, you know, I know a little bit about all the little nuances of online business. And eventually, eventually I ended up in media and video. And I just found something that really worked for me, and I've gone headfirst into it.
- [04:51]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, I've followed your videos. I love what you're doing, and I definitely want to talk about your whole approach to storytelling and the way you set all of that up. But first, I think you've touched on something that you know, in 420 plus episodes of the podcast, we really haven't talked a lot about. And that is the mental side of. Of marketing. Can we talk just a little bit about that? Because what you bring to this as a therapist, I think makes your voice different from everybody else that I see on YouTube. Talking about video and getting yourself in front of people and the way you're taking a step back and say, wait a second, there's. There's actually some human stuff that has to happen before we even talk. Camera, lighting equipment. Yeah, yeah. What's your philosophy there?
- [05:37]
Heather Parody
Yeah, I think I know. My tendency is, when I came into this conversation as more of a helper and a feeler, I mean, I cry every freaking day. Just deeply empathic and stuff. I was thinking, oh, man, that's a weakness in this media space. I have just really doubled down on what a freaking strength it is to have folks who aren't naturally bent towards media, getting into media and really showing the humanity, because folks are so burnt out with the salesman type vibe and the strong calls to action and feeling like they're being scammed and they're just looking for somebody who's human. So, you know, I really would encourage folks to understand that people aren't looking for highly produced stuff. They're looking for honest content. Honest, honest, honest. Even if it's just your freaking cell phone and it's bad lighting or whatever, there's stuff like that. Stuff's important and you can work on it, but it's not what people are looking for. And you said something a minute ago, Robbie, you mentioned in over the 400 something episodes. I noticed that when I was listening to your show, it was like 400 episodes. What a rare rarity nowadays for someone to get that far along in podcasting. And so reps is the name of the game. I have done hundreds, probably thousands of videos at this point. You can go to my TikTok and scroll to the bottom. It's humiliating. Some of the first ones I did. Terrible, terrible, terrible. We're so afraid, though, to look like a beginner to people. We want to come out of the gates looking like Mr. Beast or Brene Brown or whatever your person is. And it doesn't work like that. You have to be willing to look like a beginner in front of people and own it. And here's the thing, at the end of the day, no one is watching you anyway. We have this illusion that so many people are watching us. I have a pretty good following now, and I put out a lot of content. And to this day, my friends, my family and all that, like, what do you do?
- [07:37]
Rob Marsh
Huh? What?
- [07:40]
Heather Parody
You know, and then they miss so much because people are busy, they're consumed. And, you know, the spotlight effect. In psychology, we all think that we have the spotlight on us. And when you kind of get past the insecurity and you really do want people to pay attention, you realize they weren't paying attention all along. Because it's really hard to get people to pay attention. It's very hard. So for. I know it's, it's. You've probably heard all this before, but also, give yourself a lot of grace because we're the first generation, we're the first group of people who've had to figure out what it means to be a human being online and try to navigate this. It is normal to be nervous. Like, you're putting a camera on your face and putting it in front of strangers. Why wouldn't you be nervous? That's normal. It's a normal thing.
- [08:26]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, it's. It's interesting to think about this. You know, we all have that moment in our lives that we. That, like, it's frozen in our brains, that moment of shame where something happened. Like, I can. To this day, I don't think I've shared this story with anybody ever. You know, I can remember the moment in fifth grade when Walter Romney and Gerald Gray made fun of a shirt that I was wearing. I probably had worn it to school three or four times in a row because I loved this shirt. And like, to this day, like, that feeling of people, like, looking at you and shaming me resonates. And so when you think about getting out in front of people, obviously I've overcome that in some way because we do the podcast. I've been speaking in advance. You know, that's not really something that holds me back, but I still, like, worry about that, you know, people making fun of me. And if. And if I have that, like you said, After 400 plus episodes, I can only imagine the person who's thinking, okay, I have to get out there. I have to do something. I have to do something on Instagram or I have to, you know, be on. On LinkedIn or wherever. How do I take that first step? Because taking, like, leaning into overcoming that is not easy. And I mean, even in my saying it's not easy, I'm, I think, underestimating the difficulty of how hard that is.
- [09:51]
Heather Parody
You know, this has been helpful for me, is redefining what normal is and being very, very intentional with being friends with content creators, because when you're friends with other content creators, then it becomes the normal thing to do to put out content when you're out. I was just taking my girl to school the other day, and one of the other moms is like, so I heard you put out stuff online. And I'm just like, oh, my God, this is.
- [10:24]
Rob Marsh
There we go. Yeah.
- [10:25]
Heather Parody
And it's just so. I don't say embarrassing, it's just awkward because people don't understand and they don't get it out in, like, the regular world. And so if that's your measure, if that's your normal, those are the only people you associate with. I'm not saying cut people out. They're not a content creator by any means, but be intentional with putting those people in your life, because not only are they going to encourage you and give you feedback and all that, you're. You start to retrain your brain on what's normal, you know, and if you look at, you know, the mind, you can adjust its narrative through repetition. You know, neuroplasticity is a very real thing, but it takes time. And so that's interesting. And another thing I wanted to comment on that you mentioned is I know my experience and folks I've worked with. It's not ever, not usually the stranger we're nervous about. It's the people we know that we're nervous about. And I don't know if you follow Lewis Howells. He had an incredible clip with Gen Sierra, I believe was her name. And she made this comment that when people are negative or critical of you stepping out and doing your thing, you're killing off the person that they loved. And so they've had this narrative of you for so long, and when you step into something else, they get defensive and weird over it because they're like, but I've always liked Rob. What's Rob doing? Where's old Rob going? And they don't understand that the new Rob is just an upgrade. And so that's where the panic and the making fun of and the weirdness stuff, because they feel like they're losing something.
- [11:56]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, I definitely see that. And that struggle is very real. I, you know, my heart goes out to people who are just starting the podcast or just starting to get out there. So let's. Let's talk about some of those realities because, again, I think you've nailed storytelling in ways that, you know, maybe other people aren't doing it quite the same way. What's your approach when you sit down to create A video, you know, to tell a story, to make a point. I think you follow a bit of a formula in most of your videos, which is amazing and I think makes it so consumable. Can we talk through your process a little bit?
- [12:32]
Heather Parody
Yeah. So, again, I've made a million that were horrible. What changed the game for me was when I decided to add creative restriction to my videos. Meaning I got mad one day, Rob, and I said, you know, all my videos aren't working, and I'm doing what Gary Vee told me to do. I'm being consistent. I put out hundreds of stuff. Why is this not working? And so I got mad and I said, I'm just going to sit in this chair, and I'm not going to get up until one of these things work. I'm going to figure out my format. I'm going to sit in this chair. And so that creative restriction was so important because sometimes when we approach a white piece of paper board or whatever, we're. There's so many opportunities, we just get kind of overwhelmed. So if you can say, hey, there's a creative restriction, I'm going to do this in 15 seconds, or I'm going to only sit here, or whatever that is, it actually makes you more creative. So right now, that's kind of the origin of where that began. My brain kind of works in connections all the time. I'm always thinking like, oh, that reminds me of this, and this reminds me of that. And so it's a natural tendency of mine. And so I would say, you know, paying attention to your natural tendency is really important, because coming up with ideas a lot, it's. I don't want to say it's hard, but it's a disciplined process, and if it's something that you're going uphill with, you're making it harder. My brain's always making connections. Like, I listen to a lot of podcasts, read a lot of books. It's annoying how much I listen to. So I document stuff daily. I have a spreadsheet that's called Real Ideas, and it has hundreds of data points on it of. Hey, I listened to this episode with Rob, and, you know, he was interviewing this copywriter, and they said this. Ten minutes in, they made this comment, and I'll just leave it. And that's been really hard for me, too, because I'm very like, I feel like I have to be doing something all the time and making all the time, but learning that sometimes you'll get an idea, and that's for three months. From now, and it's not for tomorrow. And letting things breathe has been challenging for me. But I'll wrap this up so I could put everything in a spreadsheet. And then I have a pretty disciplined writing routine where usually all day Friday, I'm writing, and then I've been trying to implement one hour every morning to writing to where I go. And I just script. So used to I would spend a lot more of my time on the back end of a video, like editing and so forth. Now I try to spend way more time at the front end organizing and writing.
- [15:08]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, what is the formula? Because again, it feels like you're usually mixing in a clip from somebody. Obviously, you're tying the ideas together as you were just explaining. But when you sit down, you start out with the idea and think, okay, what are all of the things that I've seen, you know, or the things on my list that are related to, say, curiosity? Do I have a story about curiosity? Do I have a quote about curiosity? Do I fill in the blanks? Is it that formulaic? Or is it more. More organic? And it just kind of is a story you're telling.
- [15:43]
Heather Parody
What I. I'm looking for bridges. So if I heard I was doing some research on Morgan Whelan yesterday, because I'm trying to do a reel on American or the. The Voice. The Voice. I have some ideas to do some things with that. So I'll. I'll just listen to a lot of podcasts, whatever. I'll put a whole bunch of clips down, and then I'll just naturally, instinctively, I'll be like, that reminds me of when I read this in this book. Or I'll. I'll ask myself, is there a bridge here? And if there's not, I leave it alone. So I'm not looking for topic first. I'm looking for bridges first. And so if I usually have two, then I kind of put it in a separate file where I'm like, okay, these two ideas. But it's not until I have three where these three things tie together that they actually get into me actually writing a script on it. One thing that I've been really conscious of lately is not just trying to tie things together, because Rob talked about anxiety and Matt talked about anxiety, and Paul talked about anxiety. Let's make a video about it. But what's the twist that I learned something on? Or we're taking them somewhere a little bit different. So maybe we had all these ideas, but is there something that I'm adding to the conversation here as opposed to regurgitating content that's already out there. And that's actually really hard to do because I don't always have a conclusion. And I was just whining to my creator friends the other day. I'm really torn at times between keeping a consistent schedule and then also, like, maintaining the integrity of my work, that I'm actually convicted about what I'm saying. And I'm not just putting a reel together to get something out. And that's really hard for me to gauge.
- [17:24]
Rob Marsh
That was actually gonna be my next question. Because if. If you're letting that stuff happen naturally, but you have a video that's got to drop on Friday. Like, in some. There's. There's almost like. Gotta be like a forcing function that starts to make those connections for you. How do you make that happen?
- [17:40]
Heather Parody
I'm really in middle of a big, deep reflection right now about that, because I don't know the answer to it. There's. And it's weird because sometimes I've put out videos and I'm kind of like, eh. And they work really well. And so you might think of that as a success. But not to get too airy fairy weird on you, like, you know, I left my work as a therapist to make content. And the heartbeat is still there, where I really feel like I've been placed on this earth to work with people and to help people. And I have to really ask myself a lot, like, just because something popped, does that mean it worked? Or is this something that I genuinely believe added to society and I don't know the answer to that, Rob. I'm really rest. I didn't put out one reel this week. I had several filmed and I was editing them, and I'm like, I don't know if I feel this. Like, I don't know if this is what I want to say. And you can't get too caught up in that. Sometimes. I would say if you're at the beginning stages as a content creator, it's important to just get stuff out because you're finding your voice. I always tell people, you find something's.
- [18:45]
Rob Marsh
Better than nothing at that point.
- [18:46]
Heather Parody
Exactly.
- [18:47]
Rob Marsh
Yeah.
- [18:47]
Heather Parody
But at some point, you know when you know you're going to do it, you're not struggling with consistency. You're kind of past those beginner blocks. At some point, I'm like, what am I really wanting to say here? And I'm wrestling with it. I don't have a better answer than that.
- [19:01]
Rob Marsh
Okay, so let's say that we have, you know, the edited Video. You were confident this is the thing we're going to say this week. How do you come up with the hook then? You know, when you're throwing it up on social media, you're putting it on Instagram, wherever it goes, so that you actually get the initial attention on this idea that you want to share with the world.
- [19:18]
Heather Parody
Yeah, I start backwards. I don't start with the hook. I start with the takeaway. A lot of folks teach you to start with the hook, and I think that is clickbaity. And the sexy, fun thing to do. What's harder is starting with the takeaway. If you read Save the Cat, it's a screenwriting book.
- [19:36]
Rob Marsh
Yeah. Really good book.
- [19:37]
Heather Parody
Yeah. And I really love looking at these other disciplines, like, the way that they approach things. Even though I'm not a screenwriter, but, you know, him talking about the log line at the beginning, like, you figure out what is the thing that is interesting and kind of the. The main point. So I try to start there of like, okay, if I'm going to be talking about, I might, you know, say, oh, Lady Gaga says, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But what's the point of the video? The point of the video may be, do you know that magic is, you know, hidden in space, and we don't give ourselves enough breathing room and space to really allow magic in our lives or whatever. That's. That's so wordy. And so the same way you would critique a hook, I would kind of go to the end the log line and figure out. Or the takeaway and figure out, how can I really distill this down into one simple sentence? Because also, you know, with morality and making content, you know, really work, it needs to be shareable, it needs to be recommendable. And so you're not going to say to your friend, like, hey, go check out this video that started with Lady Gaga. But you might say, hey, there's this video on the importance of taking breaks or whatever. Like, I'm helping you share what the video is about by understanding the end at the beginning. So if I understand the end, then I go to the front to the hook, and I think, a, am I setting up a promise that will be delivered? So if I say that I'm going to share this idea, am I really sharing this idea? If that makes sense. Is there a payoff? So yes or no on that? Then I think about the order of the words. I feel so weird talking to you about this, because I know you're a copywriter and y'all are like, the boss at this kind of stuff. But really I write out every single word and I think, is there any words I can take out? And then how can I move the most interesting global, globally appealing thing at the very beginning? So if Lady Gaga is that thing, because people are interested in what Lady Gaga said, I'm not going to say Lady Gaga, seven words in. I'm going to try to move Lady Gaga to one, two or three, the very beginning. Because you know that scroll. So you know, if people ask a question, have you ever thought of, you know, that's terrible, right?
- [21:57]
Rob Marsh
Five seconds in, I'm. Yeah, you've moved on.
- [21:59]
Heather Parody
Yeah, right. Lady Gaga tripped and fell and this is what happened.
- [22:03]
Rob Marsh
You know what I mean?
- [22:04]
Heather Parody
Like, I'm putting that at the very beginning. So that's high level. And then from there I'm also working on hooks in between the video, throughout the video. So you're not just hooking them at the beginning, but you're also like kind of opening and closing loops throughout. And I haven't really nailed that yet. That's what I'm working on now.
- [22:22]
Rob Marsh
What, what's your thinking around length of videos? Because, you know, there's. The world is full of three hour podcasts now. You know, the Chris Williamson's of the World diary of CEO, you know, where you have these really in depth conversations and there may be 10 or 12 really good takeaways from them. On the other hand, your videos are at least what I've seen are very short. But there's always something that clicks, right? The, the way that you've thought it through. It always feels like I'm getting. It might just be a scoop of, of content as opposed to an entire feast, but it, it always hits. So, yeah, thinking on, on length, you know, are you, are you always thinking, I'm trying to keep this to six minutes or under 10 minutes, or does it just take what it takes?
- [23:08]
Heather Parody
Yeah, well, thanks for saying that because that's my goal. I am a very spiritual, deep thinker. Like, I want to have a cup of coffee and sit with you for three hours, talk about something. So it's wild that I've really leaned heavy into short form content because the stigma behind it and the reality of it is that it's really just playing to our dopamine and our short attention spans and not really, quote, helping humanity. But if we think about being, you know, healers and whatever in this world, we have to figure out how do we bring our message into the context of what's going on. And right now, short form video is it. And so I just, I may. I've made it a personal challenge to make deep, short content because it doesn't seem like that would work. Right. And so I want to be an entry drug for people where they may have not thought about this stuff. And then they go look up Stephen Barlett, they go and look up Lewis Howells and they, you know, consume content. That's changed my life. So, yeah, I want to make it as short as possible because that's what I'm trying to serve. I'm just from like a tactical standpoint, you know, we have, I have 90 seconds on Instagram. If I want to put it on YouTube, that's 60 seconds. So the shorter the better. One thing I am working on though, is not jump cutting so much where I don't allow something to breathe for a moment because I just refuse to believe that we can't sit in a moment of silence with short form. Now, I don't think we can abuse that, but I think there is space if we are good at our story and convicted that energetically. I believe people scrolling on Instagram can pause for a minute and think. I do. I think we're really don't give ourselves enough credit.
- [24:54]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, I don't disagree with that. Maybe the algorithm would, but I agree. In fact, I see you doing that on your unlisted videos, which I love. Talk about the thought process that's there. And just so that anybody who's listening might not know. The unlisted videos you only share with people on your email list, you don't post them anywhere. So the only way to get them is, is to be on your list and they feel even more deeply personal. Yeah. So, yeah, tell me, you know, what's, what's the thought process there.
- [25:26]
Heather Parody
I really, really love when creators can just shoot it to me straight and talk like a human. That's the content I really love. Like, and I've gotten a lot of questions from people and I was trying to think about what's the best way to answer. Obviously I want to help everybody, but I can't just sit there in DMS with people and talk and stuff. So this would be a good way to answer one question from one person and everybody hear it. And then also to kind of show what I'm not, you know, failing at or sorting through. Like, I have somebody this. This week they were asking me about how do you, how do you approach sound design to hypnotize an audience? And I literally was like, I don't do anything with Sound design, like, what are you talking about? My hope is just to take the mystery out of it and to humanize it a little bit. It is a little vulnerable at times because you want to appear polished. You want to appear like you have everything together. You want people to respect your work. But if we think about our own human behavior, usually when someone can show you the stuff that they're struggling with, you end up respecting them all the more. And so why don't we, you know, apply that to our own work? And so unless it's just a test with that. So glad to hear that you're enjoying it.
- [26:47]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, I think the thing that I like most about it is, you know, I see the polished videos and they're. They're amazing. They're great. That's the first thing that attracted me to, you know, watching what you do. But the. Seeing the. The unlisted videos, like you said, they're more vulnerable. But it feels like I'm getting a little bit of a peek inside your brain in how you're actually piecing ideas together. It's almost like rather than having gone through your, you know, three connection step, it's like you're taking a question and thinking through as you record. I'm guessing it's. It's actually more thought out than that, but it feels, again, very natural.
- [27:25]
Heather Parody
I don't. I don't script them out. Sometimes I'll, like, put a couple bullet points just because I'm add and don't want to get off topic, but for the most part, those are just, like, real honest responses.
- [27:35]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, I. Like I said, I. I think I'm going to steal that idea. I just. I think it's brilliant and a really good way to make a connection with an audience.
- [27:44]
Heather Parody
I hope so. Thank you.
- [27:46]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, so, yeah, let's. You mentioned, you know, the way that you spend Fridays writing, you know, and try to, you know, put an hour of writing in every day. But a lot of your time, I think, is thinking and strategy. Will you just talk about your approach there to creating that time in your day so that you have. You can actually create the content. When you sit down and you start.
- [28:11]
Heather Parody
To write, man, it is. It's. It's imperfect. I think I'm reevaluating my strategy. I know I am. On a weekly basis, I try every Sunday to put 30 minutes to an hour aside and just look at the week and figure out what worked, what didn't, because, you know, I'm running a business, too, and I have kids and I have personal projects. I'm working on a short film. Like there's. It's like freaking endless, you know, which I'll sit here and complain about it, but I sign myself up for everything. I love it. I'm geeky. I have ClickUp. I use ClickUp even if I'm just the only one on the team. I use ClickUp to organize everything. It's pulled up right now. I review the day in the morning and at the end. And again, that's just my energetic makeup. Some people are not that way. Like, I literally stress my husband out when he looks at what I have. He just does not operate in that way. He operates in a different way. And that's fine. I think what we have to be mindful of is being hyper aware of our gift, our disposition, and then being responsible to it. Because some people like, oh man, I got to get up at 4:30 and use ClickUp and blah, blah, blah. No, you don't. What you need to do is be responsible with the way that you were created and be honest with yourself. Am I really being faithful with what has been given to me? You know, and it's totally imperfect. I don't know if I'm answering your question, but that's my thought around that.
- [29:35]
Rob Marsh
Yeah. And where are you, like, what are the big stores of information where you get your inspiration? I know you mentioned you've got a group of creators surrounding you. Obviously you're a big time reader watching other videos, but when you think about what people call Renaissance time or CEO time or thinking time, what are your.
- [29:58]
Heather Parody
Go tos for the videos or for my life?
- [30:02]
Rob Marsh
I think all of it because it feels like they're kind of connected.
- [30:06]
Heather Parody
Yeah. Lately I've been. It's funny you're bringing this up because I. I've actually been challenging myself in that way. I've spent, you know, the past 10 years reading hundreds of personal development books, hundreds of hours of podcasts. I mean, I. I'm just. It's disgusting how much I've consumed. But lately I've been kind of questioning myself. I'm like, I think you're in a comfort zone, Heather, where you're listening to the same types of content. Why don't you start expl exploring other things that you don't know as much about? It's very. I'm very comfortable with kind of the psychology, personal development space and so forth. Like, I understand certain lingo and words and concepts, the way they link, which is a strength because it makes it easier to make these connections, but also haven't really been pushing myself where exploring things I've never heard of before or whatever and speaking a student again. And honestly, you know, this is an excuse, but it comes down to time because begin being again, being a beginner again, you know, it's. You gotta, you gotta be messy out loud. So I mean I, I drive a lot. Yesterday I was on the road for five hours. So I listen to back to back podcasts, I read every morning. I usually have a YouTube video up playing. I'm talking about like it is disgusting how much I, I listen to and consume. But I also too from my own mindset. I didn't come from a family that was super positive and you know, exposed to this stuff. So I'm still rewiring my own mindset and battling my own demons and trying to figure out how to be a better person myself. So I listen to that stuff for content, but I also listen to it because I need it.
- [31:48]
Rob Marsh
This morning I was thinking about something similar. You know, the way that I consume content, the things that I read and the way that I'm thinking about it and it feels like I read in shorter chunks now, I think in shorter chunks. And you know, as I again pondering it this morning, I was wondering, is that, has that changed over time because I'm getting older or is it changing because the way media has evolved in the last decade and a half has, you know, forced me to do that? Am I, is my thinking literally changing because the media is changing as opposed to the way that I would consume it? I don't know that it's deep, but it sort of got me thinking because I'm like, okay, which one's better? And, and do I need to force myself into longer reads or do I need to force myself, like you're saying, you know, into things that don't feel familiar and challenging? I mean, this isn't even really a question. I actually started a course in something that's very, very different from anything I've ever studied before two days ago. And, and like, literally as I opened up the first lesson, the thought came to me is, this is too hard, you should just quit now. Right? Like, and, and so anyway, maybe this is me throwing a lot of things at you as a therapist, a content therapist, but what are your thoughts on how media.
- [33:12]
Heather Parody
I love this, I love this thought, I love this idea. Contemplation. That's something I've been thinking a lot about. Richard Rohr talks a lot about this, just sitting with something and you know, it's just kind of that meditative. That meditative state where you just kind of mull over something just for a while, like, even a thought, even a sentence. And I feel you on the sense of, you know, I've done a lot of challenges and, you know, I'm. I'm driven af and type A, where I'm like, I'm gonna read 25 pages a day, and I'm gonna. You know, I put metrics on stuff, which is cool and helpful at the beginning, I think, but at some point, you're just reading through pages to check a box, as opposed to really sitting with something and consuming it. But I'm also asking myself a lot, like, why are you in such a rush? Where's the rush coming from? Because I'm in a rush all the time, and I don't know why. I think it is a cultural thing. Like, we. We've. We're breeding that in our society. There's something just we collectively. It's a collective weight, not just an individual one. And also, it is an individual one because there's pressure that if Heather doesn't produce a reel today and get that out and email her list and then have five discovery calls with the client and also make her family a homemade meal. And also, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just this, this, this. Am I failing in these areas? Am I, Perce, you know, being all that I can be? And I don't hate that message because it saved my life in a lot of ways, but I also feel like, where am I? When am I ever going to evolve from that and think a little deeper? And that goes back to this idea that we were talking about earlier, is, as a creator, do I really have something to say? And it's normal for us to not always have something to say.
- [35:07]
Rob Marsh
Yeah.
- [35:09]
Heather Parody
How could we have a revelation every day, you know?
- [35:13]
Rob Marsh
Yeah.
- [35:14]
Heather Parody
And that's what I feel like as creators, we've kind of. I felt the pressure of, like, oh, man, you're going to have something deep constantly to talk about, but I don't give myself time to actually wrestle with anything. You know what I'm saying?
- [35:26]
Rob Marsh
Yeah. And as you say that, that might be part of the reason that I am always reading and consuming and listening, because I feel like I want that new idea. It's like, I get that there's a dopamine hit for, you know, when you're scrolling through the. The. The feed on Instagram or whatever, but there's almost a deeper dopamine hit if you can learn something new, if Somebody can connect something for you. You sort of have that. Oh, wow, wait a second. I hadn't thought about that.
- [35:52]
Heather Parody
Yeah.
- [35:52]
Rob Marsh
And. And so maybe one of the reasons that we try to consume so much is that we're. We're actually looking for that deeper thing that we're not getting from the scroll.
- [36:03]
Heather Parody
Man, you're just dropping some nuggets, man. That was.
- [36:05]
Rob Marsh
I don't know. I think.
- [36:06]
Heather Parody
No, I'm going to be thinking about that for. I haven't thought about it in that way before, but I think you're right.
- [36:10]
Rob Marsh
We'll have to have a part two or maybe once we figured this thing out. Let's see what result. Yeah, well, let's. Let's go back to the videos. Because one thing I noticed about your videos, not a lot of calls to action. So what, what is it all leading to? Like, what's the purpose? And, you know, is there a connection between what you're. The content you're putting out and how your business grows on the back end?
- [36:35]
Heather Parody
Yeah, it's wild. I'm about to say a bunch of stuff that we can just probably upset a lot of people, but this is just my experience and my conviction. I believe with all of my heart that when we show up as creators, more full, more alive, more convicted, more lit up, then people are going to ask, how can I hire you? I don't know what you do, but can I hire you? Because those are the emails that I get. Literally emails. I don't know what you do, but can I work with you? Which is wild. And I'm not saying that is like a marketing strategy by any means, but I think we're like, somebody messaged me the other day. I was like, how do I get the conversion? And I'm like, you don't get a conversion. You know, people. You convert stuff because people are drawn to your work. So I'm not saying I'll never have a CTA or whatever, but my intention right now is to add as much value to people and trust that when you are just constantly in a state of giving value. Giving value, and that's what you're consumed by. People see you as a person of value and want to work with you. So I'm not worried about it. I'm not worried about it.
- [37:54]
Rob Marsh
That is a really different approach to business than, I mean, even than.
- [38:00]
Heather Parody
I got a podcast and the guy was just like, well, I think we're done here.
- [38:05]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, I mean, it's sort of scary to be putting stuff out there and not draw that line. From point A to point B saying, this is how you work with me. This is because again, like, especially when. When content is so time consuming, to not have that line to the dollar is. It's an act of faith in a really big way.
- [38:27]
Heather Parody
It is. But also too, when you try it out and you let go of that and you give yourself six months to stop making it a commercial, hit me up and tell me what kind of results you got. It's scary at first because we want to put the blame of our content and our stuff not working because we didn't use the right technique or hack versus taking the responsibility that we're not getting the conversions because people don't believe us.
- [38:57]
Rob Marsh
Yeah. So what are you building then on your business? I know you recently had a program where you were walking people through the storytelling and the art of video creation, but what else are you building?
- [39:10]
Heather Parody
Yeah. So for the last five years, I've been fractional CEO, been working on kind of operational side to people's digital businesses. So my brain works is I'm very, very creative, but I'm also very organized. And I kind of like a. Kind of a sidekick for people who are all over the place and have.
- [39:30]
Rob Marsh
A very unique skill set, by the way.
- [39:32]
Heather Parody
Yeah. Oh, it's. Yeah, I've done a lot of like, testing and human design and all a bunch of weird stuff. And it all points to the same thing, and I'm good at it. And we recently closed that. Recently, as in this fall, closed the agency side to that down because I decided to go all in on creation. And so I'm just now doing consulting and coaching with folks and I'll have cohorts and programs and things like that coming out. But I just kind of took a little leap. I took a little leap and it's scary, but it's working out so far.
- [40:02]
Rob Marsh
One other thing I noticed that you do not shy away from at all is talking about spirituality and, you know, even touching on religion occasionally, which I think is very rare in the marketing world. Thoughts on that? Should we be doing more of that?
- [40:17]
Heather Parody
It's terrifying. It's terrifying. I don't want to talk about it because I am so annoyed with religious people and I've been so hurt and I feel squeamish and sick to my stomach when people bring it up to me sometimes because I just had a lot of abuse in the church and. But when I was a little girl, I wanted to be a minister. That's what I always wanted to do. And kind of when that went south, that's when I went into therapy because I was like, oh, well, therapy is another way to do ministry without the church.
- [40:47]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:47]
Heather Parody
And then when I left all that, I've really found kind of media as, quote, my ministry. And I've had to really learn that this has nothing to do with people's crap. This has to do with something else working on your behalf and our creator, however you want to word that. And so I've just been really restoring my own faith in that regard. And I've been kind of working with this policy that if you're nervous to talk about it, it's probably something you should look at because fear usually sits very strategically in your life. It's not random that some people are afraid to talk about relationships. It's not random that you're afraid to show your arm that was twisted in a car accident or talk about infidelity or there's a reason we're terrified around certain topics. I'm not saying you should build a brand around everything, but why am I scared to talk about that? You know, where's the growth opportunity in that? And so I'm not going to do it forever, I don't think. Who knows? But right now I'm scared to talk about spirituality because it's so personal to me and I've been so hurt in it. But it's also one of the most real and honest things I can do. So people have been nice so far. I've gotten a few not so nice things, but I can handle it.
- [42:03]
Rob Marsh
How do you deal with the not so nice?
- [42:04]
Heather Parody
I put it on the website. I put it on my website.
- [42:08]
Rob Marsh
The untestimonials. Yeah, we're talking about. So that's something else. I love that. When I saw that page, I'm like, this is brilliant.
- [42:16]
Heather Parody
Yeah, well, I've had a lot of, you know, I do. I work with creators, so I'm on these coaching call, whatever the hell. I don't even know what I am. A coach, a consultant, whatever. I'm still. What you said earlier, content therapist. That's literally what I am. But, you know, they'll sit there and they'll be like, oh, my God, you know, they're just so afraid to get that one comment. They're. They will not post something even though they say they want to. They won't do it because they're like, oh, my God, what happens when somebody says something? So for years, I've been telling people not to worry about it. It's not a big deal. We all do it. The whole speech. And after a while, I'm like, I really want to make an example of this and show you what people have said to me. And here's the interesting twist to it. Most of them are right. Most of what people say to me, not the mean ones, like, you're going to go to hell. I'm not gonna go to hell. But if they're like, hey, you're too hyper. Hey, you mispronounce words. Hey, you're so. I can't understand what you're saying because your accent, like, they're right. And actually, if you look at the light in the dark, they're pointing to the shadow, the dark side to my personality and my skill set. But when you flip it to the light side, that is why people are attracted to me, folks. Some folks love my energy. They love that I mispronounce words. And I leave it in the video because it shows that I'm human. Other people are like, forget her. Other people are like, yes and amen. So what people point out in you as a negative can be why other people fall in love with you. So I like that page. I need to update it. I got some more to add.
- [43:46]
Rob Marsh
When I stumbled across that again, I was like, oh, everybody should have an untestimonials page. Just because it is so revealing about not necessarily the things that you do, but the audience that you're repelling and pushing away. And I think it just points an arrow and says, if you think like this, yeah, you're not going to like what I am. But everybody who doesn't think like that is going to love it.
- [44:12]
Heather Parody
Yes, exactly.
- [44:13]
Rob Marsh
So if you could go back in time, you know, Heather just starting out, maybe on her content journey, she's just, you know, stopped being a therapist and could give her some advice that might help her make more traction or do something differently or do something better. What would you say to her?
- [44:32]
Heather Parody
A lot. A lot. I think what's coming for me right now is stop feeling guilt for what you really want. I had a lot of guilt to say that I wanted to be a creator because it sounded very immature in my head. It sounded irresponsible. It sounded egotistical. There was a lot of, like, judgment around it where I'm like, are people going to think that I'm this, this, this, this? Because I want to put out content online and start a podcast and do these things? So I would go to her and really encourage her to let go of the shame around what I really wanted from an emotional standpoint, from a Technical standpoint, I don't. Hmm. Hmm. If I could be honest, I would tell her to not interview people or discuss topics that you really weren't passionate about. I know that sounds weird, but I put out a lot of content that I thought might work or that I felt obligated to do for a variety of reasons. And I've really come to terms with, like, the most powerful content is the content that is a hill you would die on. And that moves me. Like, I've asked myself that a lot, you know, like, am I moved by this personally? Like, does this, you know, you need that feeling that you get, like, yeah. I'm not saying that every time I'm like, hallelujah, this is great. But, like, does it stir something in you? Is it something that you really deeply believe? Or are you just throwing. I don't know if I can cuss on your podcast, but just throwing poo poo on the fan and seeing if it works. You know what I mean? And Colin and Samir talked about this on our show the other day. Phenomenal podcast. They were saying that the ideation process is really being eliminated from creators. Where it used to, we would go to a board and stir creativity and come up with new ideas and then put it into a formula. And now we kind of put a formula first and then try to put ideas into that. So we're starting with, is this going to work versus pure ideation? And think about sucking the life out of your work by going formula first, then trying to come up with an idea.
- [47:02]
Rob Marsh
I think it's even worse than that. I think we look at what other people in our niche or our industry are doing, and we think we need to mimic that. So we, we don't even start with the formula and go to our own ideas. We're starting with the formula and going to their ideas.
- [47:19]
Heather Parody
Yeah, man. Isn't it wild? Isn't it wild?
- [47:22]
Rob Marsh
And that's probably why so much content is so bad.
- [47:25]
Heather Parody
Yeah. And that's another reason why I try to separate content from business and stuff, because I don't need my content to perform, you know, And I don't know your experience. A lot of the people I've worked with, most of their business doesn't come from content anyway. It comes from word of mouth. And so I think we put too much stock on stuff. But if I'm not putting pressure on my content to make something, I can be a little more free with it.
- [47:52]
Rob Marsh
Yeah, I, I, you've got me thinking about the content that I create, and you Know, how do I go deeper with it? How do I make sure that, like you said, it's the stuff that resonates with me and I'm not wasting time with all of that other stuff. There's a lot of things to contemplate, you know, when I sit down to think about all of this stuff.
- [48:14]
Heather Parody
Yeah. Isn't it fun now?
- [48:16]
Rob Marsh
Yeah. I mean, it's fun, but it can also be a little bit scary. Right. Because I'm not thinking at that moment, like, how do I get the next client? Or, you know, how are we getting the next conversion? It's like you said, it's stuff that won't pay off maybe for six months or a year.
- [48:33]
Heather Parody
Yeah. And that's why I'm a spiritual man. Because I don't think I could do this life or this work without having a spiritual bent. Because if I think about everything just logically, black and white, linear, then panic sets in because then I'm in control and I have to make everything work now. I'm responsible and I have to be faithful with what I've been given. Can you tell I grew up in church to the language I'm using, but at some point at, I don't know how to move through this world without understanding that when I get to the very edge of the cliff and I've gone as far as I possibly can go, that, that one extra inch, something's going to catch me.
- [49:10]
Rob Marsh
Yeah. Final question for you. And we've, and we've kind of talked about this for 47 minutes, but for that person who is thinking about, okay, I am going to get serious about creating content, the right kind of content that resonates with me as a creator. What initial advice do you have for them? Just to help them get started.
- [49:28]
Heather Parody
This is super left turned from what the, what we've been doing. But this came up for me so strong whenever you said that. So I'm going to trust it. Have intentional fun as much as you can with it and ask yourself, how can I make this fun? How can I breathe life into this? My energy in my videos, I'm fully convinced is really the key for them resonating with people or not. Yeah, the concepts are important. I'm not talking about an extroversion, introvert type thing. I'm talking about you can feel somebody's presence if they're happy, if they're sad, if they're just doing this. And so you can come to the whatever with a perfect script. But if your mind is not there and you're thinking about something else. Your energy's off. Mastering your energy and trying to figure out how to have fun is so important. And it sounds silly and cheesy. The girl who does the Excel spreadsheet, she has a million plus followers. You know, she does jumping jacks and stuff like that. Tony Robbins talks about that. And it sounds weird and crazy, but.
- [50:36]
Rob Marsh
If you look at this, her page is so nuts. It's so nuts to me, it's such a disconnect. But it works.
- [50:41]
Heather Parody
While it works, it works and people again are drawn to the energy. So learning energy management, I think is just as important important as you learning any tactical video editing stuff.
- [50:51]
Rob Marsh
I think that's great advice.
- [50:54]
Heather Parody
So if add something else to learn and do.
- [50:56]
Rob Marsh
Exactly, exactly. Yet another thing on the, on the.
- [51:00]
Heather Parody
Checklist, script, write, video, edit, and, you know, have perfect energy, no problem.
- [51:04]
Rob Marsh
Heather, if somebody wants to, you know, follow you, you see the stuff that you're doing, you know, both on, you know, the publicly and also unlisted videos. All of the stuff. Where should they go?
- [51:15]
Heather Parody
Heather Parody pretty much everywhere. I'm not on LinkedIn much just because I'm not corporatey and those people make me nervous. But Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, heatherparity.com we'll link.
- [51:26]
Rob Marsh
To everything in the show notes. I think that you're one of those people who, honestly, almost every creator should be following. I just love the way you think. I love the way that you put your content together. So thanks, thanks for your time today. Appreciate it.
- [51:40]
Heather Parody
Well, this just freaking made my day. Thank you, Rob. I appreciate it.
- [51:47]
Rob Marsh
Thanks to Heather Parody for sharing how she thinks about and sits with and creates her content. I love her idea of looking for bridges as opposed to content topics when she's looking for content ideas and then combining those bridges with a twist that she adds that makes the whole thing different as opposed to more of the same. There are so many people on social media who should be doing this instead of adding to our collective content shock. Also, her suggestion for moving interesting ideas and recognizable names to the very first five words of your hook so that you immediately catch attention is a copywriting superpower. Far too many copywriters have a tendency to clear their throats and take a bit of time to get around to the point that they need to make instead of starting with big ideas and big promises. If you want to do more of that, the big promise, the getting attention early on, watch some of Heather's work. It's going to inspire you. And this is a lesson I'm going to have to take to heart myself. And I have to say, I really like Heather's unpublished videos. Now, we talked a little bit about this in the podcast. Those are the videos that aren't available to everyone. They're only available to her active email subscribers. This is a genius idea for a couple of reasons. First, if what gets shared in an unlisted video is valuable, it's helpful to your listeners and so they have a reason to want more. But more than that, the vulnerability that Heather brings to her unlisted videos forges a tighter connection between her and her audience. And if either of those two things are appealing to members of her audience, and clearly they are, they have yet another reason to stick around and get more. So it basically makes subscribers stickier. Of course, you can do that with publicly available videos too. But there's something magic about having access to insider content, content that not everybody can see or even know about. If you're not on the list, you just don't get it. Okay, be sure to check out Heather@HeatherParity.com. her last name is P A R A D Y dot com. You'll find links to her just about everywh aware that she is. But on her website you're going to find a link to the behind the scenes videos and to her podcast. And of course, you can see her content on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube. Wherever video content is shown, she is worth following and learning from. And that's the end of this episode of the Copywriter Club podcast. The intro music was composed by copywriter and songwriter Addison Rice. The outro was composed by copywriter and songwriter David Mutner. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone that you know. Or if you don't know anyone that's a fit for this podcast, just leave a review at Apple Podcasts or at Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I really appreciate that. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.
- [54:40]
Heather Parody
Copywriters coming together to help the world write better copy and make horror money. Kira and Rob's Copywriters Club that can.
- [54:56]
Rob Marsh
Make you lots of money.
- [54:58]
Heather Parody
Listen to the Kira and Rob Copyright Is club can make you lots of.
- [55:05]
Rob Marsh
Money as long as you listen through.
- [55:08]
Heather Parody
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