TCC Podcast #434: Building a Business Fast with Jon Morrow

Summary

The Copywriter Club Podcast Episode #434: Building a Business Fast with Jon Morrow

Release Date: February 11, 2025
Hosts: Kira Hug and Rob Marsh
Guest: Jon Morrow, Content Strategist and Founder of Smart Blogger

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Introduction

In Episode #434 of The Copywriter Club Podcast, hosts Kira Hug and Rob Marsh engage in an enlightening conversation with Jon Morrow, the founder of Smart Blogger. Jon shares his remarkable journey of building a six-figure business from day one, overcoming significant personal challenges, and leveraging artificial intelligence (AI) to revolutionize his business strategies. This episode is packed with actionable insights, strategic frameworks, and inspirational anecdotes that are invaluable for aspiring and seasoned copywriters alike.

Jon Morrow’s Inspiring Journey

Jon Morrow opens up about his life story, highlighting the unique challenges he faces due to muscular dystrophy. Despite being largely immobile except for his facial movements, Jon has successfully built multiple businesses and authored extensive copywriting content.

“I have muscular dystrophy and I can't really move any part of my body except my face... I've built several successful businesses. I've written tons and tons of copy, and it hasn't really held me back at all.”
[03:27] Jon Morrow

Jon's career took off while working with Copyblogger, a leading platform in the copywriting industry. Under the mentorship of industry giants like Brian Clark and Dave Patel, Jon honed his skills, transitioning from a writer to an editor and mastering the art of copywriting.

Launching Smart Blogger: A Strategic Move

One of the pivotal moments in Jon's career was his innovative approach to launching Smart Blogger. Faced with the necessity to generate a six-figure income immediately due to stringent Medicaid income limits, Jon devised a unique deal with Brian Clark.

“I made an offer to Brian Clark at Copyblogger to work free for two full years in exchange for a simple favor... to ask him to email all the subscribers and endorse my agency.”
[06:32] Jon Morrow

Brian Clark honored this agreement, resulting in an overwhelming response with approximately 500 clients in a single day. This strategic move not only catapulted Jon's business but also underscored the importance of reputation and strategic relationships over immediate financial gain.

“My reputation is infinitely more valuable than getting paid on a contract. Choose your reputation.”
[10:52] Jon Morrow

The Impact of AI on Copywriting and Business

Jon delves into the transformative impact of AI on the copywriting industry. AI tools like ChatGPT have significantly increased productivity, enabling Jon to produce high-quality sales letters in a fraction of the time it previously took.

“It used to take me 20 hours to put together a really good sales letter. Now it takes me 30 minutes to an hour. The productivity increase is massive.”
[18:21] Jon Morrow

However, Jon also highlights the challenges AI poses, particularly for newcomers. The landscape has shifted to favor those who can adeptly integrate AI into their workflows, making it harder for beginners to break into the industry without the right skills.

“If you're at the top of respect and a personal brand, it's a gold mine. If you're a beginner, it makes it harder than ever before to get started.”
[18:21] Jon Morrow

Maximizing Lifetime Value Through Email Marketing

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Jon's advanced email marketing strategies, particularly his "broadcast triggering" method. This technique involves sending targeted broadcast emails that trigger automated sales funnels, effectively segmenting the audience and maximizing engagement without overwhelming subscribers.

“We send out broadcast emails offering free content. When they click the link, it triggers an automation and starts the funnel. This process allows us to segment by interest and present new offers weekly.”
[24:38] Jon Morrow

Jon emphasizes the importance of consistent, automated communication in nurturing leads and maintaining a steady revenue stream. His approach ensures that even if other channels falter, the email list remains a reliable source of income.

Building Trust and Personal Branding in the AI Era

Jon asserts that despite the rise of AI, human connection remains irreplaceable. Building a trusted personal brand and fostering genuine relationships with the audience are crucial for long-term success.

“What’s not going to change is human connection... People want to learn from another human being rather than omnipotent AI.”
[40:23] Jon Morrow

He advocates for leveraging personal stories, emotional branding, and consistent nurturing to establish trust and authority, which are pivotal in an increasingly automated world.

Lessons from Mentors: Brian Clark and Neil Patel

Reflecting on his mentors, Jon shares valuable lessons that have shaped his approach to copywriting and business growth. From Brian Clark, he learned the mechanical aspects of writing effective copy, emphasizing structure over creativity.

“Writing good copy is not a creative expression. It’s a mechanical process... about really paving the way for a purchase decision.”
[38:09] Jon Morrow

From Neil Patel, Jon gained insights into leveraging resources and delegating tasks effectively, understanding the power of leveraging a talented team to optimize business operations.

“Neil was a master of doing nothing, of getting smart people around him to do everything. It taught me about the value of leveraging all clients.”
[38:09] Jon Morrow

Advice for Starting Over and Overcoming Challenges

When posed with the hypothetical scenario of starting over, Jon outlines a strategic approach centered around building trust through relationships on platforms like Facebook. By offering free quality work to influential individuals and leveraging their networks, Jon would rebuild his business from the ground up.

“I would start writing things for free for people with a lot of friends on Facebook... leveraging their trust and relationships to gain new clients.”
[44:46] Jon Morrow

He also advises beginners to focus on creating proof of their expertise, gathering testimonials, and continually refining their offerings to build credibility and attract paying clients.

“For information products, the first big hurdle is proof... connect your accomplishments with your visual proof.”
[47:50] Jon Morrow

Final Insights and Future Directions

Jon concludes by reiterating the enduring value of human connection and personal branding in the face of advancing AI technologies. He encourages copywriters to embrace AI as a tool to enhance their capabilities while maintaining the human elements that foster trust and loyalty.

“Building trusted connections and all of the other funnel optimizations... are not a competitive advantage. But a personal brand that millions love is irreplaceable.”
[40:23] Jon Morrow

Notable Quotes

• “I have muscular dystrophy and I can't really move any part of my body except my face... I've built several successful businesses.”
  [03:27] Jon Morrow

• “My reputation is infinitely more valuable than getting paid on a contract. Choose your reputation.”
  [10:52] Jon Morrow

• “It used to take me 20 hours to put together a really good sales letter. Now it takes me 30 minutes to an hour.”
  [18:21] Jon Morrow

• “What’s not going to change is human connection... People want to learn from another human being rather than omnipotent AI.”
  [40:23] Jon Morrow

Conclusion

Jon Morrow's story is a powerful testament to resilience, strategic thinking, and the effective integration of technology in building a successful business. His insights on leveraging AI, maximizing email marketing, and the irreplaceable value of human connection provide a roadmap for copywriters aiming to thrive in a rapidly evolving industry. For those seeking to elevate their copywriting business, Jon's strategies offer both inspiration and practical guidance.

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If you enjoyed this summary and want to dive deeper into Jon Morrow's strategies, consider listening to the full episode on The Copywriter Club Podcast.

Transcript

[Rob Marsh]

Would you be willing to work for.

[Kira Hug]

Free for two full years in exchange.

[Rob Marsh]

For a simple favor?

[Kira Hug]

This is the Copywriter Club podcast. You already know this, but succeeding as a content writer or a copywriter is not easy. And building a reputation when you're just starting out is a huge challenge. But what if you knew that you needed to earn six figures a year beginning on the day that you launched your business? No time to ramp up. No time to figure out client acquisition. No time to create or test the products and services that you offer. You have no choice but to succeed at a high level from day one. What would you do? That's the challenge content strategist and founder of smart blogger John Morrow faced. But he did it. He succeeded in creating a six figure business from day one. John shares how he did it and why it was necessary in the first.

[Rob Marsh]

Few minutes of our interview.

[Kira Hug]

And once you hear what he says, you may find yourself without an excuse for accomplishing big things in your business. Because if John can do it with the limitations he faced, you can almost certainly do it even if the world is conspiring against you. I didn't expect this when we set up the interview, but what John shares about how he uses AI in his business to write sales letters, courses and run his business will either frighten you or inspire you to step up your own writing and AI game. His approach is impressive. As you listen to this episode, ask yourself these questions. What are you willing to give up in order to get what you really want? How are you diversifying and changing your business in the face of AI? What can you do differently to make sure your approach to email actually makes money for your business or for your clients? And what can you do to create more connection and community with the people that you want to work with? Before we get to all of that, this episode is brought to you by the Copywriter Underground. We've been rebuilding our content vault and adding a ton of additional workshops to it. These new workshops are jammed full of practical ideas for building your writing business. Creating new products like VIP days, lead magnets and more. Getting attention and building your authority. Showing up on social media with the right content to attract use your ideal clients, and a lot more than that. The more templates and training that we add to the Underground, the more that I realize there is just a crazy amount of valuable resources in addition to the monthly coaching and regular copy critiques that are there ready for you to use and you can get immediate access for less than you spend on a dinner out with your family. Learn more@the copywriterclub.com TCU and now my.

[Rob Marsh]

Interview with John Morrow, Foreign. Welcome to the podcast. As I mentioned just before we started recording, you've been on my list for a long time to have as a guest. I. I think I've followed you or known of you for close to 15, maybe, maybe even more years than that. We like to start with your story, so I'm. I'm guessing that there might be one or two people in our audience who don't know who you are. So tell us how you got to where you are.

[John Morrow]

So, yeah, my story has many chapters. So the thing about me that's unusual is that I have muscular dystrophy and I can't really move any part of my body except my face. I use Dragon, naturally speaking to type. I have people that take care of me around the clock. And despite that, I mean, I've built several successful businesses. I've written tons and tons of copy, and it hasn't really held me back at all. So that's the first piece that if you're listening to the audio, you wouldn't be able to immediately notice, probably, except for my voice is a little scratchy. That's one of the symptoms. But. But yeah, that's. That's a big part of my life. And then my career really got started when I went to work with a blog called Copyblogger. That used to be huge. When I left copyblogger, it was 35 million pages a month. A lot of the best writers in the world weren't there, and I started out as a writer, eventually rose to an editor, and then. And then started also learning and mastering copy while I was there. My first mentor was Brian Clark. My mentor after that was Dave Patel for a little while. I've worked with a lot of people and really been blessed to learn from the best of the best.

[Rob Marsh]

One of the things that I love about your story is how you actually launched your own business. You know, as copywriters, we're always thinking about offers and how to sell them. And you made an offer to Brian Clark at Copy Blogger that to me is off the charts valuable for him. Would you mind just sharing that story? Because I think a lot of people don't get started. They have excuses, you know, all of the reasons why they can't do something. Obviously that doesn't. That doesn't work here. You know, if you've succeeded, obviously, you know, excuses aren't enough. But you did something pretty original. But that made Brian take you on and then really launched your career.

[John Morrow]

Yeah. So I was in a bad spot where I was dependent on Medicaid to pay my medical bills. It was about, at the time, 150 grand a year of medical bills that they were paying. But the limits could was they limited your income. You have to be in poverty to receive the service. So I couldn't earn more than $800 a month. So I had to figure out a way out of that trap. What it meant was I couldn't gradually scale up my income. I had to go from $800 a month and then immediately flip to six figures. And how do you do that? So I made one. A deal that I would work with him and edit the food full time for two years. And at the end of it, I would ask him for a favor. And he did not say that. And that was the deal. And the favor that I asked was that I went in to email all of the subscribers to Copyblogger and tell them I was launching an agency and to endorsement. That was it. That's all I wanted for two years of work. And Ryan did it. The only time he ever endorsed anyone. And I had like 500 clients overnight. I literally couldn't help everyone who was coming to me.

[Rob Marsh]

Did you know you were going to make that request when you started, you know, the two years? Or was it, hey, there's just this favor I'm going to ask later?

[John Morrow]

I didn't know anybody. Yeah, that.

[Rob Marsh]

Yeah, to me, that story is. I mean, in one, one instance, it's great faith in your ability to, you know, figure something out and just knowing that you had the time to do it. But also in, in having Brian there to make good on that promise, which. Yeah, I mean, sending. Sending you out to the entire client list of Copyblogger. I can't think of a writer who wouldn't want that kind of thing.

[John Morrow]

Yeah, and I mean, I guess there was. He had enough confidence in me to say, okay, I accept the deal. And I had enough trust in him because he always. Everyone around him, he treated them well. So it wasn't. I wasn't really worried about Issey going to screw me over because he never screwed anybody over. Everyone around him was happy to work with him. And because of that, we made a deal. And it really. One thing I would point out to anyone who's just getting started, who, you know, and your reputation is infinitely more valuable than getting paid on a contract. Not saying you shouldn't be paid, but if you had to choose between having accelerating your reputation and accelerated your bank account. Choose your reputation.

[Rob Marsh]

Yeah. Really, really good advice. Did you launch Smart Blogger? Did you launch that at that time or had that been already going while you were writing for Brian?

[John Morrow]

So the order was I wrote for Brian, then I did consulting and agency, worked for about a year. And I worked with Neil. Here is one of my clients from NIA and I helped Neil launch a blog called KissMetrics. And we went from zero to a quarter million visitors a month in 60 minutes. And when I did that, I just looked at myself and I was like, why do you do this for other people and not yourself? You're obviously going to do it. So I launched Smart Blogger. Neil promoted it, Brian promoted it, and I had 13,000 email subscribers before I really wrote.

[Rob Marsh]

Wow. Again, reputation and relationships.

[John Morrow]

Yeah.

[Rob Marsh]

So what does your business look like today?

[John Morrow]

So it's been through several stages. For a long time it was my only business and it grew up to 16 employees at its peak. The ribs are brother. And we monetized by teaching classes on freelance writing of all types. And we've had 70,000 or more students go through our programs. And it was the dominant writing brand and still is in many ways for a long time. Nowadays, Freeman's writing is changing because of AI. And because of that, I've diversified into other businesses, other offers. Now I work a lot with horse graders because I've made over 15 million from selling our own courses. So that's another business that I have. I'm also an active investor. But Smart Blogger still exists. Now we have four employees. And it's really just passive income for me at this point. Everything is automated.

[Rob Marsh]

The other businesses are less passive. That's where you're spending all of your time. Yeah, yeah. So you mentioned that AI has changed the writing business. How are you seeing the biggest impacts? And just to set the stage, you know, obviously a lot of people freaked out when Chat GPT came on online. You know, writing is over and you know, and then maybe it kind of transitioned a little bit to you're not going to lose your job, but you might lose your job to. Or AI won't take your job, but somebody using AI will take your job. Maybe it's not even that, but there's been so much just disruption happening and I think scaring people out of the industry at the same time, maybe bringing in people from the industry who are using AI. How have you seen it change? Change the various businesses that you work in?

[John Morrow]

The biggest impact has been on search. Smart Blogger for years got 4 to 6 million visitors per year from Google and a lot of those were what's called informational queries, like how to become a freelance writer, re rank for that, re rank for how to get freelance writing clients, stuff like that. And what's changed is two things. Now there are what Google calls AI overviews, where they just answer the question with AI and then they have all the links underneath. So that cut everyone's traffic on informational queries by 30 to 60%. The other big change is Google search is dying. Now people are going to ChatGPT and typing in their question. Now they're going to perplexity and typing in their question. And so it's affected search the most in terms of creating content or creating copy. One great writer did not do the job of a hundred writers. And what that means is if you're really good at what you do and if you know how to use AI, you get rich and you take all the jobs out in the marketplace. With AI now, I mean, it used to take me, I don't know, 20 hours to put together a really good sales letter. Now it takes me 30 minutes to an hour. The productivity increase is massive and that driving down costs. And also what it means is if I were a freelance copyright, and I'm not, I could now do 20 times more contracts than I could before. So if you're at the top of respect and a personal brand, it's a gold mine. If you're a beginner, it makes it harder than ever before to get started.

[Rob Marsh]

Yeah, that's what I've seen happening in the people that I talk to as well. The people who have embraced it and have been using it are getting better and better at using it as well. There's a bit of a learning curve. But those who don't have the skills to even ask ChatGPT or whatever the tool is, you know what they, what they need to get out of it. They have a hard time knowing if the copy's good or that they're asking for the right stuff that they're prompting in a way that actually creates something that's that's valuable.

[John Morrow]

Right now, the one thing AI doesn't have is taste. It can't tell the difference between good copy and bad copy. So if you're using AI, the most important thing to know is the difference between good copy and bad copy. That's step number one. Step number two is to get really good at prompt engineering. My prompt is not write me a sales letter. My prompt is first generating a copywriting bridge, then feeding that copywriting bridge into a series of six prompts that are on average about 300 words each. Okay. Tells how to write and if you really want to push it forward, have examples of every section of the sales letter. The next step beyond that is an agent that can do it all for you. And that's what I'm building now is AI agents.

[Rob Marsh]

So are you primarily just using ChatGPT and the actual tools are there writing editing tools that you're also using that harness AI as part of how they function?

[John Morrow]

I use ChatGPT Quad Gemini for different things, but no, I'm upstage now where I connect to the APIs of those tools and I'm creating workflows and really code or software to do things. That's the highest level of AI. So if you combine a master level copywriter with the AI engineer, that's very hard to beat. Very, very hard to beat.

[Rob Marsh]

Yeah, yeah. I think that's the maximum or the best combination in the people that I'm seeing use it in the copywriting world as well. So beyond then the way that you're using AI to create things like sales pages, has it impacted the work that you do, say with course creation or any of the content that you're producing for the world?

[John Morrow]

Everything is AI assisted. Every piece of content, every course, it's all AI assisted. We've come up with processes to where all have a human interview me on the topic for about three hours. Then we get the transcript from assembly AI and then we use that transcript to where I have a project manager that can generate the entire course off of that three hour transcript. And I don't do anything. My involvement is a 300 engineer and.

[Rob Marsh]

The project manager is AI or is human.

[John Morrow]

Human.

[Rob Marsh]

Okay.

[John Morrow]

Yeah.

[Rob Marsh]

That's not a bad workflow for creating a course that then can generate plenty of money, tens of thousands of dollars, maybe more.

[John Morrow]

I've been seven figures on courses like that. Is that over the past two years every course has been generated that way that I've done and every funnel I've created has been from AI and I've made millions from this.

[Rob Marsh]

So it seems like somebody listening might think, oh cool, I can just use AI to generate a course. But you're actually starting with your brain and the stuff that's in there. Decades of experience. So, you know, obviously it's not, it's not really an AI course. It's. It's a john course, augmented and made possible using AI tools. Is that a correct?

[John Morrow]

Yeah. That goes any further. My project manager is, has been doing instructional design for five years. So he knows the difference between a good lesson and a bad lesson, a good homework assignment and a bad homework assignment, and he should be all the way through.

[Rob Marsh]

Yeah, it's amazing. So before we started talking, you mentioned something that's really intriguing to me and I want to make sure that we get to this really quickly or before we run out of time. And that is you said that you've gotten really good at maximizing the lifetime value, in essence emails. And this is yet another challenge that's maybe even gotten harder for people using AI, because AI is not great at maximizing lifetime value. Talk to us about that. What's your process for making sure that email makes money?

[John Morrow]

I call it bubble second. So I've worked with a lot of seven figure businesses and I've noticed they almost never do enough with email. So I let me give you Smart Blogger as an example. When someone subscribes by downloading a lead magnet and by the way Rena, over a thousand people a week can be up to 2,000 people a week through download of a subscribe. So that's a lot of leads.

[Rob Marsh]

Yeah.

[John Morrow]

We have an initial offer and follow up next with content, introducing them to the business. And then we the next week we have another funnel, the next week another Funnel. They get four vertical offers in a row over 30 days mixed with content. With that process we triple the cost of ad spend, for example, and profit. We did it through that qrs and then what we do every week we have a promotion for either a lentage and offer or a mid ticket offer and we do one every single week. All of those are automated. So the way it works is through what's called broadcast triggering. So we'll send a broadcast offering free content. Okay. When they click the link it triggers an automation and it starts the funnel. All of our funnels are evergreen, so when they click the link it puts them into the funnel and everything happens automatically all the way the cart closer. So what that means is if we send out three broadcast emails, we may get 3,000 people to enter that automation. Now what happens is if they don't enter the automation, then we send out content for the remainder of the week, then the next week it starts over. So it's taking people and segmenting them by interest on a weekly basis and they get to see a new funnel every single week. The compounding of that of that over a year is like a 50x80%. It's absolutely enormous. And because you're segmenting it doesn't burn out the list ever. You can do it forever.

[Rob Marsh]

So let me make sure that I understand it. So you're sending out after those first four sequences you send out, or however many sequences it is, you're sending out a broadcast that is informational in nature, but it has a link or it basically gets them interested in a product that you give them an opportunity to. If they click that link, they'll drop into a sales funnel for that. And if they don't click that link, you're not continually sending them messages, selling them stuff, you're just sending them two or three more emails that week, other, other information, and then you do it again the following week with an opportunity to drop into a sales funnel.

[John Morrow]

Exactly.

[Rob Marsh]

Yeah. This is really similar to something that my friend Todd Brown, you know, has talked about. And I think that it's one of those, one of those ideas. Like you said, it's game changing. I hadn't heard 50x, that's, that's an amazing number. But I've heard some pretty, some pretty nice results from doing this kind of stuff. And I like the way you talk about it. Broadcast triggering.

[John Morrow]

Yeah, it's definitely an advanced tactic. But anyone that does it. There are two problems that plague a lot of businesses. One is a loyalty and the second one is inconsistent income. They do launches twice a year, something like that, and it's feast and famine. This has the benefit of literally delivering daily revenue off of existing subscribers. So if for some reason my ad account got shut down or we got banned from Google Search, we would still make money from all of the subscribers that are still on the list. So the, yeah, the value is massive. I can predict my quarterly revenue with a 10% margin just based on existing subscribers.

[Rob Marsh]

What is the content need on the front end? So, you know, and the reason I'm asking this is I imagine somebody is listening saying, well, that's easy for John. He's got 15 plus years of content that he can send people to. How often are you creating new content in order to send either the daily email or the stuff that you're sending people you're directing them to in order to drop them into a sales sequence?

[John Morrow]

I created content for years. I still create some. But for example, let's say you put up a YouTube video on funnel stacking. Say I was doing a YouTube video on that. Then what I might do is email my list about that YouTube video. Anyone who clicks the link gets grooved into an automation to sell them a course or a service on funnel stack. So it's literally. And then I might circle around so that's one asset is a video. Later I might do a challenge 30 day challenge where we map out your funnel stack. That's another email I could send and something I could sell later I might do. I might take everything I've done and write a book with AI called funnel stacking. Now that's another requirement I can sell. Now I have three different funnels off of one piece of content that can be used throughout the year.

[Rob Marsh]

And how often are you reinventing that or thinking, okay, here's the next offer. Is this something you're thinking, I'm going to do one of those, you know, one piece of content, three or four offers every month? Is it every couple of months? How do you think about that?

[John Morrow]

I repeat offers, but change the broadcast email once every quarter and nobody notices. It's just a different broadcast email on the front end. But all of the funnel is the same, so it gets repeated once a quarter.

[Rob Marsh]

That's interesting. Okay, well, this is definitely an idea worth stealing, especially if people have products to sell. But maybe more importantly, it's an opportunity for copywriters to step up as strategists for their clients and help them build these kinds of funnels. These kinds of opportunities for the clients.

[John Morrow]

Yeah, the more the better you can get at optimizing people. What most copywriters do is they create one funnel and they, they send people to it and they expect a positive ROI based on that one funnel. That is a mistake. In really big business, when you get to seven, eight figures, you're almost never making money on the first funnel. You're always doing a series of funnels. And for people who do have the luxury of breaking even or making money on the first funnel, they don't realize if they stacked three funnels with email sequences and automations behind that, they might literally triple the revenue overnight.

[Rob Marsh]

Is this something that you're. So you mentioned that you work with course creators. Is this a big part of what you do with them to help them sell more or is that different?

[John Morrow]

Yeah, I do two things. I consult on strategy around funnels and marketing calendars and long term strategy. I also did this as a service every now and again and I just charge like 10% of the extra revenue that we make the client. They literally pay nothing. And I do that every now and again too.

[Rob Marsh]

So there's another can't say no offer, free work from John that results in a nice outcome at the end, assuming that everything goes well.

[John Morrow]

Yeah, I mean, I mostly do that with businesses where I expect to earn them 2 to 3 million a year extra by doing it. And so 10% is just fine.

[Rob Marsh]

That's pretty meaningful. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. So a lot of people in the course world have said that the last year or two has been a little bit crazy. It's harder to sell courses. It's harder to sell through webinars, all of the things. Have you seen that? And if you have, how have you been helping course creators overcome that?

[John Morrow]

There is a deficit of trust. If you are not trusted, it's much harder. If you are trusted. Nothing has changed. So it really becomes a question of how can we make people trusted? And what that means is nurturing is way more important than ever before by email, by retargeting the days of expecting to have no social media presence and not doing regular emails to nurture, those days are over. You have to be nurturing and building trust and authority with your audience to make seven figures, eight figures, for sure.

[Rob Marsh]

One of the things that you also mentioned earlier as we were chatting that I'd love to get your thoughts on, you mentioned that you had worked with Neil Patel and Frank Karl Kerr, obviously. Brian Clark. Talk about what you learned from these personalities. Some people might call them gurus or experts. How did they impact the way you think and the stuff that you do?

[John Morrow]

Brian taught me that writing a good copy is not a creative explanation size, which a lot of people would disagree with. Mickey said it's really almost like F by the numbers. You have to have all the components and maybe there's a little bit of creativity in the order you put those components in, but otherwise it's. It's about having everything in place. Someone needs to make a purchase. It's not about being clever. It's not about having brilliant pros. None of that matters at all. In fact, it probably hurts you. It's about really paving the way for a purchase decision. And to do that is a mechanical process, not a creative one. That was a huge breakthrough for me. From Neil. I learned about degradation. Neil was a master of doing nothing, of getting smart people around him to do everything. And it really just taught me about the value of leverage of all clients. So those were. I mean, they're way more less than those, but those are the two big ones.

[Rob Marsh]

I think a lot of people now look at you as the expert. You know, what are the things that you are trying to teach the world or the people that you're trying to have the biggest impact with? What are the lessons that you're passing on?

[John Morrow]

The big lesson I'm trying to pass on now is that everyone is worried with AI, but there are certain things that are not going to change. An old lady in a nursing home is not going to want a robot caretaker. It doesn't matter if it's better. It doesn't matter if it's tutor. She's read a lot. The human being. When people learn, they don't want the most intelligent teacher. They want a teacher they can identify with the future. The thing that's not going to change is human connection. And even our flaws is going to become more valuable than ever before because people are going to thirst to learn from another human being rather than omnipotent AI. They're willing to thirst to talk to another human being when they're deciding whether or not to buy. And so putting ourselves in a position to where we are trusted and have a connection with millions of people, that is a value that's not going away, not the time sin maybe never as long as humans are around. And so I find myself talking a lot more about emotion, about brand and about really building trusted connections and all of the other funnel optimization, stacking AI to accelerate sales leaders. All of them are flashy, but everyone's going to do that. It's not a competitive advantage. On the other hand, if you have a million people who love you, who respect you, that's not something other competitors can just create the night. So the power of that personal brand is really what I spend a lot of time trying to push.

[Rob Marsh]

Yeah, it's more, more good advice for anyone. Which kind of leads into my next question. So let's, let's say that you lost everything today. You know, you no longer have the businesses you have. You don't even have the relationships you have. You had to start over. What would you do? Would you do the same thing? Would you do something different? And again, the reason I'm asking you, we were earlier we were talking about AI making it so difficult for copywriters, content writers to break in. Now it's become immensely more challenging. What would you do to overcome that?

[John Morrow]

So would I have also lost my skills if I restart here, or do I still have less skills?

[Rob Marsh]

Well, let's say that you have the skills that you had, you know, as you started writing. So, you know, you're basically a beginner, but you, you maybe haven't figured out the whole broadcast, trigger, stack, that kind of stuff.

[John Morrow]

I would build an audience on Facebook, which catches a lot of people up guard. But there's an enormous advantage to Facebook that everyone overlooks. On Facebook, you can send A friend request to just about anyone. So what I would do is I would start writing things for free for people with a lot of friends, people who already had big brands. And when they asked whether I want to be paid, I would say, nothing, just friendly on Facebook. That's all I would ask for. Now, that sounds ridiculous. But then I would go to all of their friends and I would bring that one and just say, hey, it's great to meet you. You know, how do you know Rob, by the way? I just wrote this briefing for it. Do you know anyone who needs that type of writing? And I would keep doing that until I had thousands of friends and so many people who had started to trust me because I was friends with people they respected on Facebook. And that's how I would start getting work. And the reason why they retain it is not because of the best copy. It would be because of the trust that they've gotten from the implied endorsements of just being a friend for someone. That's what I would do.

[Rob Marsh]

I want to see somebody do this. I mean, it goes back to the same idea you started with. It's all about relationships and making sure that those are really solid before you do anything else.

[John Morrow]

Yeah. Next week, I'm actually going to try teaching this. I'm launching it to my list where I believe Facebook is the best platform to get started. Now, do you want to stand there? No. But to get started, you can get to six figures with no website, with just Facebook posts, brands, and dms. I'm truly good.

[Rob Marsh]

What are some other thoughts or ideas in addition to that, things that you might do in order to, you know, maybe it's launch the first course or, you know, create the first information product, or, you know. However, the next step is to grow the business.

[John Morrow]

For information products, the first big hurdle is proof. So what I would do is I would sit down and I would say, what are the things I have done in my life that other people would love to replicate? And I would start there. Then once I have a list of those, I would say, what visual proof do I have that I accomplished this? It could be a screenshot. It could be, let's say you're a mountain climbing instructor. It could be a further review on the top of my liver. That's visual proof. So I would connect my accomplishments with my visual proof. Then if I were a beginner, I would. I would make this offer. I refuse to write a doulas for, let's say, $1,000. And here's the deal. I really need testimonials so if you do every step, if you do every homework assignment, and you give me your honest review at the end, I will give you back your full tuition of a thousand dollars at the end. If you miss one full month assignment, you don't get it. Okay. And I would do that to provide testimonials. Then I would launch the next version, not offering the people their money back.

[Rob Marsh]

That's how I love that idea, too. There's. It's a no loss for the person creating the product because either they get paid or they get the testimonial, which they can leverage into getting paid again. So, yeah, it's really, really great advice. So, John, last question for you. If you could go back in time and just give yourself some advice that would help speed up the process or make things easier for you as you were starting out as a copywriter, content writer, what would you say?

[John Morrow]

I would tell myself to think even bigger. Yeah.

[Rob Marsh]

Yeah. What do you mean by that? Because you thought pretty big, it feels like you were thinking pretty big.

[John Morrow]

One of my regrets is staying in a small market of freelance writers for a decade and never branching out into anything bigger. I'm proud of what I've accomplished, and at the same time, I know that I've gone to a bigger market. I'd be a hundred times richer than I am today. My choice of market, it wasn't a waste, but I have monetarily underperformed my potential. Even though I made benefits, I'd probably be worth, I don't know, over 100 million, maybe a billion dollars by now if I just chosen a different market. That was my biggest mistake.

[Rob Marsh]

And obviously you've got the skills. You could make work in any market. So taking that anywhere else you go, I want to thank you for your time, John. I've admired you. Just the way you overcome obstacles, how hard you work, the way you've built teams. As I've watched, sort of from the sidelines, it's. It's one of those experiences where, you know, sometimes I'm thinking, I wish I'd thought of that, or I wish I'd done that. John got there first. And so I. I find, you know, the advice that you're sharing and just your experience incredibly valuable for me personally and hopefully for our audience as well. So thank you for that.

[John Morrow]

Thank you for having me. I'm honored. Foreign.

[Kira Hug]

Thanks, John Morrow for walking through.

[Rob Marsh]

His business, what he's built, what he's.

[Kira Hug]

Building for the future.

[Rob Marsh]

I'm inspired by John's work and what.

[Kira Hug]

He'S accomplished in the face of some pretty big challenges. Now, I have to admit, John's advice about building an audience on Facebook was a bit of a surprise to me. Obviously, we've got a very large free group on Facebook, the Copywriter Club, but over the past year or so we found that getting traction on posts in the group is getting harder and harder. John's approach of connecting with prospects, then connecting with their friends and making an offer is really interesting to me. And given that it's so different from the hundreds of pitch emails showing up in our inboxes right now, I think it just might work. It may work even better than I imagine, thanks to the implied endorsement that you get with their friends who you refer to in your friend request. If you try this tactic, I want to hear from you about how well it works. Email [e-mail] and let me know how it goes. And if you're looking for other ideas on how to connect with your ideal prospects and pitch them for work, there are close to a dozen workshops inside the Copywriter Underground that will help. You can try the Underground right now. Watch those workshops, try out the ideas that we share there, and if you like what you see and you want to stick around to use the templates training, community and coaching, no problem. And if it's not for you, that's also not a problem. Just let us know within seven days and you'll get every penny back. There's no risk, so why not check out thecopywriterclub.com tcunow that's the end of this episode of the Copywriter Club podcast. If you like what you heard, please share it with someone that you know, or if you don't know another writer or a freelancer who you can share it with, visit Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever it is that you listen to your favorite podcasts and leave a nice, fun five star review. I promise when you share it, when you review it, your friends will thank you, I will thank you. The world will thank you. And as always, I thank you now for listening. We'll see you next week.