The Copywriter Club Podcast Summary
Episode: TCC Podcast #454: 10 Commandments of Influence with John Bijakovic
Host: Rob Marsh
Release Date: July 1, 2025
Introduction
In this engaging episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, host Rob Marsh sits down with esteemed copywriter John Bijakovic to delve into the intricacies of persuasion and influence. Drawing from John's recently published book, The Ten Commandments of Conmen, Pickup Artists, Magicians, Door to Door Salesmen, Hypnotists, Copywriters, Professional Negotiators, Political Propagandists, Stand-up Comedians, and Oscar-Winning Screenwriters, the conversation explores both the mechanics and ethics behind persuasive techniques used across various disciplines.
John Bijakovic's Journey and Book Overview
[03:17]
John Bijakovic reflects on his journey since his last appearance on the podcast two years prior. He highlights his dedication to writing daily emails on marketing, sales, and persuasion—a practice he has maintained consistently for over five years. John shares his excitement about finally releasing his book, which intersects diverse fields to uncover the common threads in effective persuasion.
Notable Quote:
"The book is exactly what I was planning on it being," – John Bijakovic [04:39]
The Intersection of Diverse Disciplines
John explains how his book brings together seemingly disparate fields—such as con artistry, pickup artistry, magic, sales, hypnosis, comedy, and screenwriting—to reveal underlying principles of influence and persuasion that are universally applicable.
[04:39]
"I looked at 10 separate disciplines that have some sort of an overlap or that have a significant overlap." – John Bijakovic
Exploring the Ten Commandments of Influence
Darren Brown's Techniques
John discusses the inclusion of Darren Brown, a renowned mentalist and illusionist, in his book. Brown's ability to manipulate and influence people is examined through historical anecdotes and practical examples.
[09:11]
"Thou shalt ask for directions," – John Bijakovic [09:11]
This commandment illustrates how seemingly innocuous actions, like asking for directions, can lower a person's guards and open them up to influence.
Making the Skeleton Dance
One of the pivotal concepts discussed is making the skeleton dance—addressing potential flaws or objections proactively to build trust and turn negatives into positives.
[23:36]
"Making the skeleton dance takes trust and a coherent reason why." – John Bijakovic
Ethics of Persuasion and Influence
Rob and John delve into the ethical considerations of using persuasive techniques. They stress the importance of using these methods responsibly to benefit both the marketer and the audience, rather than exploiting vulnerabilities.
Rob on Cialdini's Work
Rob references Robert Cialdini’s Pre-Suasion and Influence, emphasizing the value of understanding persuasion to avoid manipulation.
[18:05]
"Persuasion is a superpower." – Rob Marsh [14:35]
Rob underscores the dual nature of persuasion as both a powerful tool and a potential ethical minefield.
John on Ethical Use
John reassures listeners that his book promotes ethical persuasion, highlighting the importance of using influence to help others rather than deceive them.
[14:35]
"These techniques are very transferable, and you can use them in ways that are completely beneficial to both sides." – John Bijakovic
Psychological Insights and Human Behavior
The conversation explores how inherent human psychology makes us susceptible to certain persuasive techniques, regardless of intelligence or awareness.
Intelligence and Susceptibility
They discuss studies showing that highly intelligent individuals can sometimes be more susceptible to persuasion, challenging the notion that intelligence alone can safeguard against manipulation.
[19:57]
"The people who were most able to fall for these kinds of things were actually the more intelligent people." – John Bijakovic [19:57]
Making the Skeleton Dance Further Explored
John elaborates on how addressing perceived negatives can shift the burden onto alternative options, subtly guiding prospects towards his solution.
[30:11]
"If there's nothing to fear from my offer, then the alternatives must be flawed." – John Bijakovic [30:11]
Committing to the Bit: Confidence Without Confidence
One of the standout chapters discussed is about "committing to the bit," which delves into the concept of exuding confidence even when one does not feel it internally. This technique is crucial for maintaining trust and authority in various persuasive scenarios.
Operationalizing Confidence
John emphasizes the need for actionable strategies to project confidence, moving beyond vague advice to practical methods that can be applied in real-life situations.
[34:05]
"Being told to be confident doesn't help. I needed something more operational." – John Bijakovic
Focus and Misdirection in Persuasion
Rob shares his fascination with how focus and misdirection are pivotal in both magic and marketing, enabling practitioners to direct attention strategically to influence outcomes.
Magicians as a Metaphor for Marketers
John draws parallels between magic tricks and marketing campaigns, illustrating how both disciplines rely on directing focus to create desired effects.
[38:59]
"Magicians do the exact same thing where they get you to look exactly where they want you to look." – John Bijakovic
Encouraging Independent Thought in Persuasion
The episode concludes with a discussion on the delicate balance between directing attention and allowing individuals to arrive at conclusions independently. John cites Ronald Reagan's presidential debate strategy as an example of guiding thoughts without overt manipulation.
[47:39]
"Questions are definitely a very, very effective and very subtle and very simple way to guide people without making them feel manipulated." – Rob Marsh [49:14]
Conclusion and Recommendations
Rob wraps up the conversation by highly recommending John’s book, praising its storytelling approach and practical insights. He encourages listeners to apply these principles ethically in their marketing endeavors.
Closing Remarks:
"I think it's the kind of book that will help just about everyone be a better writer or a better marketer." – Rob Marsh [54:54]
John directs listeners to purchase his book on Amazon and to subscribe to his daily email list for ongoing insights into persuasion and marketing.
Additional Resources
- Book: The Ten Commandments of Conmen, Pickup Artists, Magicians, Door to Door Salesmen, Hypnotists, Copywriters, Professional Negotiators, Political Propagandists, Stand-up Comedians, and Oscar-Winning Screenwriters by John Bijakovic
- John's Website: johnbj.com
- Masterclass: How to Write Emotional Copy available at thecopywriterclub.com
This episode offers a profound exploration of the art and ethics of persuasion, providing valuable takeaways for copywriters, marketers, and anyone interested in understanding the mechanisms of influence.