← The Copywriter Club Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
If you've thought about starting a newsletter either as a standalone business or to support your existing business, you're not going to want to miss this episode. This is the Copywriter Club Podcast over the past few years, newsletters have become a thing. Newsletters like the Morning Brew and the Hustle have sold for millions of dollars, 75 million for the morning brew, 27 million for the hust. Other newsletters are earning hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars through paid subscriptions, advertising, and by selling products related to the newsletter content. And lots of tools have sprung up to support their growth, from Substack and Beehive to more traditional email tools like Kit. And then there are the courses and templates designed to help you launch and grow a newsletter business. I've spoken to several people over the past couple of years who have used newsletters as the primary vehicle for marketing their businesses, including Caitlin burgoyne, that's episode 447 and Eric Erica Schneider on episode 433. Before we go any farther, I should probably mention that these newsletters are a little different than a regular email from your business. I suppose daily or even weekly emails also qualify as newsletters, but I think there's a divergence happening in the marketplace today and newsletters are becoming their own thing, topic or industry driven long form content that usually follows a template. It acts as a thought leadership platform and might include links to other articles and content, tools and news. Some are literally news driven, like Barry Weiss's the Free Press or Slow Boring by Matt Iglesias. Other newsletters cover everything from AI and investing to art and comics, comedy and book reviews, even freelancing and copywriting. I've mentioned this in other conversations, but I think newsletters present a massive opportunity for copywriters and content writers, especially those who have specialized niche expertise. Imagine creating the Go to newsletter for construction industry marketing, or for the roofing industry or femtech, or for learning Excel or cycling or romance novels. There are so many potential opportunities, and as a writer, you have a giant advantage over non writers who might want to create something similar. Your newsletter doesn't have to become a business itself. It can funnel potential clients to your products and services. In fact, that's exactly how copywriter Robert Scrobe started his business, a business that has grown to six figures a month. He shared his strategy and the steps that he followed to create his business in a workshop that's in the copywriter underground right now. Honestly, just about anyone can do what he did by simply following the steps that he shared in that workshop. All of which leads to my guest on today's episode of the Copywriter Club podcast, Seiler demirolp. Seiler writes a newsletter about the newsletter industry. She shares how others have built their audiences, the tactics and strategies they use, and how you can use those tactics and strategies if you want to create a newsletter business of your own. If anything I've been talking about for the last couple of minutes has you thinking, yeah, maybe I could write a newsletter. You're going to want to hear what Seiler and I talked about, so stick around. That workshop by Robert Scrob that I mentioned, the one that steps through how he built his seven figure business, starting with a newsletter sent to about a hundred of his ideal clients and how you can do it too well, that's just one of more than 70 workshops in the Copywriter Underground right now. The Underground is a vault of strategies, tactics, ideas and insights to help you grow your copywriting business. And as a member of the Underground, you'll have access to our private community, monthly coaching calls, regular copy critiques, and a lot more. Check it out@thecopywriterclub.com tcu2 and now my interview with Siler Syler. Welcome to the Copywriter Club Podcast. I'm thrilled to have you here. I've been wanting to get you on the podcast for quite a while. We finally been able to make it happen. So tell me, how did you get here? You're the founder of Newsletter Circle newsletter about newsletters and an advisor I think to a lot of people who are starting to build their own newsletters. Tell me your story.
- [04:20]
B
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. First of all, it's a great pleasure. Yeah, I've been building Newsletter Circle for the last two years. It started as a publication where I interview with newsletter creators with all different list sizes from using different email service providers, etc. And then this year I switched back to Substack and decided to focus mainly on substack creators who are building paid newsletters. But my background is totally different. Actually I was working as a corporate, you know, in a corporate company in marketing and market research departments. And then I just decided to build a career from scratch for myself. And after I quit my job I took some time to learn what's going on in the online business. And then I realized that there are so many great newsletters out there. I was also learning a lot from them. And you know, it was. It's been four years. I'm talking about four years before and you know, there are not many publications actually talking about how these amazing creators built these publications. So I just thought that there is such a gap in the newsletter space because, you know, most of the creators are building their newsletters solo. They are alone. So there is a huge need for creators to learn from each other. Of course it doesn't mean that one recipe fits to everyone. Every journey is unique and every pet is unique. But there are some best practices and some common trends. So there is a need to review them and make it heard by a wider audience. So I started Newsletter Circle as a publication where I interview with creators, as I mentioned. And then, you know, as of this year, as of beginning of this year, I also started to share some articles which are more actionable and showing, you know, how to apply certain strategies for creators who'd like to build a paid newsletter. Yeah, since I'm on substack. Yeah, sorry, I thought that you will ask a question. Since I'm on substack. You know, paid newsletter is a really important source of revenue for substack creators. And I'm also building my own paid newsletter. I'm not saying that I nailed it and I figured everything out, but this is a strategy that I like adopting when I want to learn something. I found people who already has done this perfectly and try to learn from them. So this is an ongoing learning process for me. I'm revealing the best practices and sharing with other creators while I'm building my own newsletter business in parallel.
- [07:35]
A
So this is really interesting to me. But before we get into like how to grow a newsletter, how to monetize a newsletter, I have a really basic question and I'm not sure how to answer this for myself, but what is the difference between a newsletter and just a regular email that somebody might be sending out for their business? Or is there a difference? Is it pretty much the same thing?
- [08:00]
B
Of course there is a huge difference. I mean, if you are talking about email marketing and newsletter marketing per se. Right. Because email marketing is a totally different area and I'm not an expert to be honest. It has its own dynamics, you know, it has its own analytics and segmentation and campaign management processes, different objectives. But what I'm focusing on is the space where solo creators are building their own independent publications. But in the end, you know, it might be a hobby for some creators who are writing a substack or any other, you know, a publication on another service, email service provider, but it might also turn into a business as well. But these are creator led businesses, not like a B2B business who leverages email marketing just as a channel to distribute their services and products. So it's really different if I.
- [09:11]
A
Okay, so if I understand you correctly, you know, email marketing is obviously using email in support of an existing business. And the newsletter is kind of a business all on its own. Maybe you start to add other products to it and sell that with the newsletter, but you're looking at the newsletter really as its own business.
- [09:29]
B
Yes, but also, you know, recently there is a trend that I started to see more brands, you know, big companies also started to launch some newsletters. This is also a way to build a thought leadership and to build an audience, to build a community. If a business needs such assets, then newsletter is the way. You know, they can still leverage email marketing to run all these campaigns to increase sales, to reach some targeted consumer groups. But they can also run newsletters for sure, just to build awareness and, you know, increase the strength of their brand to build a community and audience, for sure. So content is always there for some companies. You know, there are so many brands who are running blogs, for example, but now newsletters are a better way to reach a targeted audience. So there are some companies who are also leaning on this strategy. So it depends on the objective, it depends on the context. But what I'm focusing on are in the creators. This is what I'm trying to say. Like substack creators.
- [10:52]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. So you mentioned some of the things that we use newsletters for building brand building, community, thought leadership, content, you know, posting content. These are also things that people have said, you know, we should be using social media for that or blogging or, you know, writing on edm. So help me understand newsletters. Why is this the best way to do all of those kinds of things?
- [11:20]
B
Yeah, again, you know, I really don't like to generalize my answers because, yeah, there are so many channels out there and, you know, the best channel depends on your objective and where your target audience hangs out. But in the end, newsletters are giving the opportunity to collect emails of your target audience. Right. This is not something that we can have through social media. And, you know, algorithms can change and platforms can be shut down. But this email list, once you manage to build it, you will own this forever. And it gives the opportunity to connect with your readers. A direct connection line and you can segment them based on their behaviors and also you can personalize your communication. So this is like a building assets. This is how I see it. You don't have to monetize it immediately, but in the end if you build an audience and if you nurture this audience, a newsletter audience, you can also monetize it in the end and it will be much more targeted for sure. So I think this is the main advantage of newsletters, you know, this direct communication and collecting emails.
- [12:49]
A
That makes sense as well. So if I just wanted to start a newsletter from scratch, maybe I want to write in something about my hobby or maybe I want it to be work related to bring clients into my business. How do I even get started?
- [13:04]
B
Yes, actually where you should start start is answering this question, clarifying this question. Why do you want to start a newsletter? This is the first question that we should ask ourselves because the answer to this question shapes the rest of the road. You know, if it's a hobby, it's a total different thing. And but if it's something to drive your business business's growth, then it has totally different dynamics. So I think before starting, this is the first question to answer, why? Why do I start a new setter? And then after you, you are clear about your objective, you should ask some follow up questions. Okay, then what is the resources that I can allocate to this newsletter? You know, what is the time? Do I have a clear objective with it? What is my objective? And then I don't know, can I invest money for growth or you know, speed up the process for tools, etc. So this is like a planning phase. And then I think it's really critical to be clear on then what will the objective of this newsletter in the eyes of readers? What will be the unique value that you will provide? What will be the solution or answer that you give or the needs you meet? What is it? What will be the unique selling proposal of this newsletter? And then this is of course highly linked to your target audience. Who do you want to reach out? So your objective, your target audience and the content, what you like to share and how it will be different from others. So these are really important and I think this is the starting point. And then based on your answers, you can decide on, okay, how many times should I post, you know, per week in terms of your resources or your objective again? Or once you are clear about your target audience, you can decide on distribution channels, you know, social media or any other channels. How do you promote your newsletter content? You can decide on depending on where your target audience is present, right? And then you know, in line with your objectives again, you can think about a business plan, you can think about a monetization plan, but maybe it's better to leave it for a later stage. Because, you know, writing an instructor, if you are starting as a, you know, individual, as an independent creator, of course, it's really critical not to overwhelm yourself with so many questions right from the beginning. It's an ongoing exploration exercise, let's say. There are so many things that you can figure out along the way, you know, based on your, again, objective and I don't know, you know, sometimes after a while you realize that, okay, maybe I'm not writing in the right way, I'm not writing with the right format, or my target audience needs something else, so you realize this kind of stuff along the way so things can change. But at least I think these three things really critical to be clear about in the beginning.
- [17:05]
A
One of the things that strikes me about the newsletter business, and I maybe have had this thought as well, is that if you just write a newsletter, it will grow, it will find its audience. As I, as I look across the most successful newsletters, they're not just writing. In fact, probably most of their time is actually around promoting the newsletter itself. So will you share some ideas around how to grow the audience once you start and, you know, figure out the, the niche, who you're talking to, what you're writing about and the cadence, those kinds of things.
- [17:40]
B
So definitely, you know, if you don't promote your work, nobody will read your work. Of course, this is not the case for some creators who already build a huge audience on social media. You know, if you have 1 million or 5, you know, 500,000 followers on LinkedIn, and if you just announced that, okay, I'm starting a new setter, of course you will get some subscribers. But if you are building from scratch, from zero, considering all the platforms, if you start with zero audience, then yes, you need to put so much effort into promoting your work and you need to think about not only creating content, but also, you know, promoting your work. And you need to make all these planning, planning accordingly because people think that, okay, I have the weekends for myself and I can write and then, as you said, the newsletter, my content will find its audience. But if you don't have time to promote your work and then you have these expectations to grow, then you will be disappointed. That's why I try to highlight the fact that it's really critical to be clear about your objective and the resources you have and then your target audience and how to reach them. So of course you need to start with clarifying your target audience and which problem you are going to solve for them. This is for sure. This is something that you can shape and change and iterate along the way. But at least you need to have a clear starting point and you need to, to have some assumptions and hypothesis to test. And then depending on your target audience, you should define the relevant distribution channels. If I'm writing a newsletter for product marketers, then I should definitely focus on LinkedIn and then I should think about how to leverage the platform, how to get the most out of it. It's not only about posting regularly and wait for LinkedIn audience to find me as well. There are so many ways to find your specific target audience, let's say product marketers. In that case, there are some tools that make all these processes more easy and efficient. So you need to think like that. You need to have this business mindset if you really would like to grow and monetize a newsletter. In the end, this is of course not valid for creators who we will just run a newsletter as a hobby and personal projects. It's a total different story. And also consistency. This is a buzzword that I don't want to skip it. You know, consistency is super critical. It's not only, you know, writing consistently, it's also promoting consistently. So if you just throw a post on LinkedIn and then stay silent for two weeks, then it will not work either. You need to be consistent with your publishing frequency, your publishing daytime, but you should be also really planned and consistent with your promotions. I'm not a huge defender of saying that you need to be visible every single day. You need to show up. It's not about showing up every single day. It's finding a rhythm that you can stick and then, you know, just follow it for the long term. Because there is not such thing called overnight success when it comes to building any such business or newsletter. This is a really patience, resilience thing, especially if you are alone. If you are doing this alone and if you have really solid objectives with your new setter, then you need to get prepared with all these emotional up and downs and for the difficult days that you feel like nobody's caring at all, etc. So motivation is, I don't know, fading or. Motivation. Yeah, it is difficult to keep the motivation always high. But if you have a plan and if you are, if you are disciplined, then you can stick to that plan even if you are not motivated. You know, because we, we all have these days, you know that. Yeah. I don't know whether I, I could answer your question.
- [22:26]
A
No, I think that's really helpful. You know, I'm thinking, okay, let's say I have a newsletter that I want to publish weekly. So I have, you know, maybe my long thought piece, 1500 words or 2000 words or something like that, that goes out every week, is there a rule of thumb for how many pieces of promotional content I should publish to promote that newsletter? So, you know, maybe, you know, I should be posting five or six times on Twitter or three or four times on LinkedIn. Have you seen anything like that, that, that really works? Obviously Scattershot doesn't work. So throwing up a newsletter and not promoting doesn't work, or only posting occasionally about it on LinkedIn doesn't work. So I'm, I think I'm looking for the formula or, you know, the framework for at least moderate growth if I publish a newsletter.
- [23:18]
B
Yeah, of course it depends on how much time you can allocate to it. If you start from zero on social media, again, let's continue with LinkedIn example. And if you really have time, you can even experiment with two posts per day. You can, you know, because it gives you the opportunity to figure out which posts resonates more and which posts are not. Because this is the exploration phase, the early days. So this is the phase that you will try to understand what works and what not. But I'm more on the side that start small and then once you see that you can do it on a consistent base, increase the frequency. So you can just start 2, 3 posts per week. And then in parallel, because you will also write your newsletter. You also need to see whether you can stick to this weekly publishing frequency, for example, because the quality of your content of course is the most important thing and you should pay attention to that. And then if you see that you can stick to this weekly publishing on a consistent basis, let's say after a month, and then you can start increasing the social media posting. Of course, in the beginning daily posting works well, but when it comes to growing on social media, as I said, regular posting will not help alone. You also need to engage with other people. You need to build some really real relationships with other creators or other people that can support your work. And also you should find some other smart ways to reach your target audience. These might be outreaches, personal, you know, send, for example, again for LinkedIn, there are some tools that you can send connection requests on autopilot based on job title. So you can just filter product marketer and then send connection request to them and then send a follow up message. Ah, okay. Thank you for accepting my connection request. I write this newsletter for product marketers just feel free to check it out kind of a thing.
- [25:38]
A
So.
- [25:38]
B
So this posting engagement and outreach should go hand in hand in my opinion. So it is also, in my opinion, okay to post really valuable posts three times a week and then leave the rest of the time for engagement and outreaches and increasing connections. So it totally depends on where you stand. But if you already have an audience on LinkedIn and then yeah, maybe you can adopt different strategies. This is what I mentioned is based on the assumption that, okay, we are starting from really zero.
- [26:21]
A
You mentioned that you use Substack and Substack has some specialty tools that help make those connections as well. I know there's shared signups and substack notes where you can post about your, your writing and you know, attract an audience that way. I know ConvertKit does some similar things with connecting with other creators and I think even Beehive has, you know, an odd, well, not necessarily an audience finder, but you know, connects you to other subscribers of people with, you know, related interests or newsletters, those kinds of things. How should we be thinking about those kinds of tools when we're building our audiences as well?
- [27:01]
B
Substack Notes is a really increasing trend. You know, I love, I love hanging out on Substack notes because it's still, how to say intellectually, it's still a clean place. I don't know how it's not the.
- [27:22]
A
Mess that a lot of social media is, nothing less.
- [27:25]
B
And it's gives the opportunity to filter the, you know, notes post based on your interest areas. So I love the current state and of course it might be a challenge to grow depending on your, again, your target audience. I'm not sure, for example, if you are writing a finance newsletter, I'm not sure how many people are there who are interested in finance or something on Substagnost. So but it definitely requires some trial and error. So it's, it's a viable option. But I think it's not enough alone. Again, another social media channel is necessary to boost growth and to reach target audience because it's like a closed universe.
- [28:22]
A
Right. So if you're, if you're in notes only, you're only getting substack subscribers or a small portion of those and you're not getting the rest of the world.
- [28:29]
B
Exactly. But of course it's really great because it's like a social media feed in the end. But it's all designed to drive email subscriptions because when you see a post that you like, you can easily check the profile, reach out to newsletter and Subscription subscribe easily. So the whole experience is designed to increase the to drive new subscribers for creators. So of course that's the reason why many creators are experimenting with it. And yeah, it's definitely worth checking. And recommendation I think another feature that you mentioned, right, recommendation feature, of course it's great to grow again based on shared interest, but I'm only skeptical about recommendations. When you think about substack sign up flow, I think many subscribers are not even aware of they are subscribing to other newsletters because the ticks, you know, checkboxes appear as how to say chosen by default.
- [29:40]
A
They're auto checked. You're not opting in, you have to opt out.
- [29:43]
B
So people don't know they need to unbox. So they just follow and complete the, you know, sign up process and actually open open rates. I don't want to talk about operates. It's a total different subject. But I think this is a critical point. Either you should find a way to onboard this group of subscribers differently just to make sure that they subscribed with this intention. They are aware of that they subscribed so that they can stick with you. Otherwise they will not read your newsletter and unsubscribe in the end. So I mean solely depending on this recommendation feature is not healthy in terms of growth in my opinion. But also there is this option to DM your subscribers on subscribers substack which is amazing. You know, it's a really great channel to reach your subscribers directly. You can just send a DM within substack ecosystem and then there is chat feature that you can talk to your subscribers and actually build a primitive version of an online community, let's say. So these are great options. I'm also hosting live sessions for example on Subscription Stack. It's like Instagram Live. So you invite other people and have conversations and it appears on the app and people join. It also drives new subscriptions. So yeah, I love substack features when it comes to building an audience and growth.
- [31:26]
A
You mentioned earlier that it's maybe not the best idea to start off trying to monetize your list. But at what point point should we be thinking about paid subscriptions or adding products to our offerings so that it actually does become a business that at least pays you for your time that you're putting into all of this promotion and writing and thinking?
- [31:47]
B
Yeah, actually before interviewing with Substack Bestsellers, I had this assumption in my mind that you need to reach, I don't know, tens of thousands of subscribers to monetize your Newsletter when it comes to paid subscriptions specifically. And I don't know why, I don't know where it came from, but I had this number. You need to reach 10,000 subscribers first. There is no logic behind it. But then after interviewing these substack best sellers, I realized that even like 1,000 subscribers, they managed to become a bestseller and convert at least 100 people. And the secret behind it actually is that they know their audience and they found a unique gap to fill in. They found a unique problem. I mean they found a problem and offer a unique solution to it. For example, there was a newsletter sharing recipes for vegetarians or you know, vegetarian people. And this person realized that, you know, most of the recipes are not really fulfilling in terms of the protein level. So the newsletter is mainly focusing on providing all these high protein vegetarian recipes. And she was well aware of this needs and problem and she immediately, you know, become a westeller. So this is one thing being clear about your audience. If you know who you are reaching out and if you know what they need from you, then you can monetize even at early stages. And then of course you need to see these signs in terms of engagement and interest towards your content. You can understand it through replies to your newsletter comments, I don't know reactions from subscribers and I always see that it's a good idea to organize one on one calls with your most engaged subscribers to understand whether this paid newsletter idea resonates with them. So try to get their feedback, send surveys, open calls, write from chat, so get their feedback and understand whether you are really planning to craft a relevant paid offer. And if you see all these signs, then just launch. Don't wait to be perfect. Don't wait to reach tens of thousand subscribers. Experiment, iterate and revise along the way. I think this should be the approach in terms of other products. I think same principles, same are valid. You know, if you know your audience, if you manage to build an engaged audience base, even if it's a small one relatively, and if you know a unique problem or needs that you can answer, then go for it.
- [34:59]
A
Do you have favorite ways to monetize? So you know, I know you could do a paid newsletter where you're simply providing additional newsletter content at a subscription that maybe free subscribers don't get. But obviously you can sell anything with a newsletter. You know, physical products, courses, coaching. What do you think works best for the. For a newsletter audience?
- [35:22]
B
I think it's really difficult to make a living with your newsletter if you only rely on one monetization methodology. Diversifying your revenue streams might be a good idea if you would like to only focus on your newsletter and turn it off, you know, thriving business. Again, it depends on your newsletter content and who you are writing for. But paid newsletters for sure, it's a difficult one to build because you need to find way to ensure retention. And of course, you know, people pay $10, $15 per month and you need to reach more people. To me, although I also have a paid offer and also I heavily talk about building paid newsletters, I think if you can do it, launching some other products with higher prices might be also a good strategy. Because if you imagine that if, if you create a product or service for $500 and if you find 10 people to pay for it, then you know it's $5,000 per month. But to reach that level of revenue with paid subscription, you need to find 500 people who like to pay $10 per month. And you know, if they subscribe per, you know, if they subscribe monthly, then there is this probability that they will churn as well. So paid newsletters have different dynamics. You need to make sure that you ensure retention, maybe you can encourage people to subscribe annually, etc. So there are different dynamics. But then the other part is also not easy because you need to build trust, enough level of trust and expertise in the eyes of your readers and it takes time as well. It's not easy to sell a product for 500 from day one for sure. So yeah, you can try and experiment with different strategies based on your target audience.
- [37:49]
A
As I listen to you talk about all of this stuff, it's obvious that a lot of people have ideas around newsletters. I'll just start a newsletter and it will turn into a business. And the reality is you're starting a business that is a newsletter. And so it's not necessarily that you start with the writing and the content, but you actually are starting an entire business idea. And as you've been talking about, you need a niche, you need to have products that you and sell. You need to be doing all of the other things that a business does. So this isn't just a, you know, post content once a week kind of a thing and you're suddenly going to be, you know, making enough to stay home and take care of, you know, all of your, your needs.
- [38:29]
B
Definitely. That's why I interviewed almost 90 creators so far. And if you check, you know, how they managed to grow and monetize their newsletters. There is more than we see. There is a lot behind the Scenes. So that's why I love doing all these interviews. So. But they were persistent in the end. They found a clear niche and problem or need to address and then they experimented like crazy until finding the sweet spot, you know. So yeah, it's the people have the right expectations when they are starting a newsletter and even the decision of, okay, do I want to build a newsletter business, do I want to build just a newsletter or do I want to build a newsletter for my business? Even being clear on this is a great starting point. And then you can manage your expectations accordingly.
- [39:40]
A
That makes a lot of sense. In all of your interviews with other newsletter creators, do you have any favorites, any big success stories that you just, you love what they did?
- [39:52]
B
I think I don't want to share a favorite because, okay, let's not call it a favorite.
- [39:57]
A
Let's call it a good example of somebody who's succeeding with a newsletter.
- [40:02]
B
Ah, good question. I never thought like that. I always thought about common practices, some patterns, et cetera. Yeah, I mean there are some creators who change their careers and actually quit their job or landed on a job they dreamed of, for example, thanks to their newsletters. I love this kind of stories because they just put them. They just shared what they know and share their expertise with other people. And then thanks to their newsletter content, they landed on their favorites or their dream job. I think this is something really nice. And then I think there was a guest mentioning about a really difficult time that he has been going through in his life and writing regularly. A newsletter saved his life kind of a thing because writing alone without any accountability was not enough for him. So building a newsletter and having some subscribers and knowing them, they are expecting something to receive on a regular basis somehow kept him motivated to keep going. It was an interesting one to hear for me. Yeah, these are just the first two examples came to my mind.
- [41:34]
A
What are the biggest mistakes that you see people making as they start run newsletters? I know we've kind of talked about some of those. We've talked about things not to do or things to do. But are there, you know, these, I don't know, tripwires to look out for that we don't trigger, you know, big failures in our newsletter business.
- [41:55]
B
Yes. We already talk about, you know, not being clear on your objective and your audience and you know, the problem that you like to solve. I think the this process, the lack of clarity on this points is the biggest mistake. This is what I've seen. And also I think the biggest mistake is the thinking of, okay, just being Consistent will be enough alone without the promotion parts. We already covered this one. I know. And also, you know, not diversifying their promotion channels. This is also important and they are not talking to. One of the biggest mistake is that they are not talking to their subscribers to understand what they really want. I think gathering feedback is also underestimated because this phase is of course a high effort phase and it requires so much work and people might see it as a waste of time because you can. You don't get a direct result and impact of it. But if you like to build a solid foundation for your newsletter, you need to talk to people and understand what they want. And then if you like to monetize your newsletter, in the end you need to sell your product. I think there is this, how to say, kind of a reaction to being a marketing person or selling something as a newsletter creator. This is something that I come across, especially on Substack. They feel like, you know, it's something humiliating to sell something or to promote yourself or promote your product. I think this is a really wrong approach and mindset. In the end, you are putting an effort, you are sharing some words, ideas, expertise, whatever it is. And you are doing this just to be heard, you know, just to help people. And if you want to help people, let's take it as an example, then you need to also work to be heard. I mean, there is nothing wrong with that. And then similar to any other content businesses, you can also make money with your writing and effort and articles. It's, you know, you can make money with your creative work and if you're making money, then you can promote it. There is nothing wrong with it. I think there is also this barrier, psychological barrier in the minds of creators. We are not like business people. But if you like to build a business, you need to adopt a business mindset.
- [44:45]
A
I'm sorry, yeah, it's that artist mindset that, you know, the art is too pure to actually monetize or sell, by the way.
- [44:54]
B
I mean, of course you can find someone to help you. This is also valid. Of course an artist or a highly creative person doesn't have to know run it how to run a business. This is for sure. I'm just talking about this vocal reaction to it. You can just say that, okay, I don't know how to do it, I'm not a business person. Then I'm getting some help or I need to get some help. This is also valid. But yeah, they're sometimes talking as if it's something wrong to do.
- [45:30]
A
So what's next for you and Newsletter Circle. Where do you see your business and newsletter going in the next year or two?
- [45:38]
B
Yeah, I have a couple of ideas. I want to do a big launch in October or November. It will be either another big report with unique insights because in the beginning of this year I launched a report where I analyzed 75,000 Substack newsletters and you know, this report, I collected so many emails, over 1000 emails with this report and it helped me to make a strong comeback to Substack so I can launch a similar product like a lead magnet to drive roads. Also, I'm considering to do a webinar for newsletter creators who like to build paid newsletter. It can be a series of events, so this is another one. I'm just in the phase of evaluating these options, but other than that I will keep publishing content. I you know, I stopped doing written interviews. I'm just hosting live sessions and turning this into written pieces with more actionable content. And I'm also writing my own articles as I said, with more actionable tips and tricks. So I will keep publishing and also I will work on my promotion efforts for sure.
- [47:04]
A
Awesome. Well, when you're ready with the webinar or the report or whatever it is. Yeah, let me know because I'm going to be one of the first to sign up. I appreciate your newsletter and just how it has helped me think about the different possibilities around writing, communicating with my own audience. And I think that, you know, there are a lot of writers out there that could benefit from the different ideas and frameworks that you share in your newsletter. So Seiler, if somebody wants to follow you or connect with you, where should they go?
- [47:36]
B
They can visit my subscribers substack page newslettercircle.substack.com and then they can find me on LinkedIn. You know I'm also available on LinkedIn. They can send a connection request by writing a small note if they find me through your podcast and I will be happy to connect. Yeah, these are the main platforms actually to reach me.
- [48:00]
A
Awesome. And I'll link to both of those in the show. Notes for this episode should be at the top of the podcast player where people can find them and just click through very easily. Thanks Seiler. I really appreciate your time and just your ideas and insights on writing for our audiences.
- [48:17]
B
Thank you so much Rob for having me. It was a great pleasure and it was so fun. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me.
- [48:30]
A
Thanks to Sylar for sharing her expertise when it comes to newsletters and what it takes to to actually build a business around one. You can sign up for Seiler's newsletter called Newsletter Circle. I've linked to it in the Show Notes, and if you visit her site now, you can get that report that she put together that analyzes 74,000 Substack newsletters to see what works, what doesn't work, and what you need to know to succeed as a newsletter publisher. I said it when we kicked off this episode, but I'm going to repeat it again. Newsletters are an opportunity that many copywriters are ignoring, and it is costing them clients. A good newsletter can be a client acquisition tool, a way to grow your authority as a thought leader, and a way to build trust and land speaking gigs, podcast interviews, and other opportunities to share what you know. But like any business venture, it's not easy, and you'll succeed only if you treat it like a business rather than a daily writing assignment. If you decide to launch a newsletter, let me know so that I can help you promote it. And if you want support from other copywriters as you do it, you you'll get that in the Copywriter Underground. Also in the underground is that workshop by Robert Strobe that I mentioned earlier. Robert used a newsletter to start his copywriting business and has grown it to six figures a month and more than a million dollars in revenue a year. He spells out exactly how he did it, and you can follow his footsteps by jumping into the Copywriter Underground and watching that workshop right now. To do that, visit TheCopyWriterClub.com TCU2 that's the end of this episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast. If you like what you heard, please share it with someone you know or if you don't know somebody that you can share it with. And honestly, it's kind of hard to believe, but you can visit Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever it is that you listen to your favorite podcast and leave a review. If you haven't left a review before now, now is the time. I promise. When you share the Copywriter Club Podcast, your friends, other writers that you know, your acquaintances and co workers, they'll all thank you you. I'll see you next week.