← The Copywriter Club Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Sometimes you can plan for change, other times you can't, and you have to adjust anyway. This is the Copywriter Club Podcast. One of the strategies we teach at the Copywriter Accelerator and our other programs where we talk about getting things done is planning ahead for when things don't go as planned. It's pretty easy to set goals and expect things, the future to behave as expected. But the reality almost always turns out differently. So you might come up with a plan to spend next Friday creating a new product or service, strategizing who it's for, the various things to include to make it valuable, and so on. But then Friday arrives and you're not feeling well, or a friend from out of town calls and wants to see you. A family emergency ends up taking up a significant chunk of your day and now you haven't gotten anything done. What happens then? Planning for the inevitable things that go wrong is a huge part of success over the long term. Thinking through the options before they happen can help you get on top of things, but you can't plan for everything. A lot of copywriters we've had on the podcast have shared that a career they planned on pursuing turned out to be less than they expected, and they made an unplanned switch to writing copy. But there are other ways that life throws you a curveball and you need to quickly adjust expectations and behaviors to make things work. My guest on the podcast today is copywriter and copy coach Danny Page. Danny started out in a corporate career that didn't go as planned and found copywriting as a result. She's changed the services that she offers more than once. She's tried new things that she thought would work and they actually failed. More recently, she made changes in her business to prepare for maternity leave. Everything was ready to support her new family situation, but once again they things turned out differently than she had planned. So how do we as copywriters adjust on the fly when things don't turn out the way we expect them to? That's a big part of what we talked about on today's episode. Dani and I also talked about her journey into copywriting and how she learned to write sales pages and launch copy. If you want to write these kinds of projects, you can learn a lot from Dani and her approach to learning those skills. And what Danny says about community and connection is a theme that has come up several times in the last few months here on the podcast. If you're not built building connections and participating in communities, you are not building a skill that is critical for your future success. There's a lot of good stuff in this episode, so stick around. Before we get to my discussion with Danny Page, this episode is brought to you by Research Mastery. I've been talking about this for a while now. Research Mastery is the one stop program or course that will change your writing for the better. Instead of just organizing words, you'll have the tools and strategies you need to truly understand your customers so they relate to your offer and buy more often. Research Mastery digs into the four critical areas of research. If you miss one of them, your research just isn't complete. And it includes the AI tools that you need to do research faster, more effectively, and more profitably. You can learn more about this unique program@thecopywriterclub.com researchmastery and now my interview with Danny Page. Danny, welcome to the podcast. I this has been years in the making and I know we've tried to schedule a couple times over the last year too. Lots of good reasons that we haven't made it happen. But I'm so stoked that you're finally here. So yeah, that's the first thing. And second of all, how did you get here? Right?
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B
Oh. Oh my gosh.
- [03:46]
A
Yeah.
- [03:46]
B
Rob, I'm so grateful for finally being here. I did not need to make it so like dramatic that it took me so long to finally say yes and get on the podcast. But thank you for your patience and yeah, so pumped to be here.
- [03:59]
A
So yeah, let's talk about like how you got your start as a copywriter. And, and I mean what you're doing now isn't all, you know, I know you're not writing for as many clients as you used to. You know, your business has shifted. But how did you even get started?
- [04:13]
B
Yeah, I have gotten like super picky with my clients. I do still write one on one. Just I feel like it's super important to still stay in the one on one world. So I know what the heck is going on and so I feel comfortable teaching it. But yeah, I have been here. So thinking about my journey, I've been in this world for almost 10 years. I like feel slightly nauseous saying a decade because it feels like forever. But yeah, I've been online for quite a while now. I was playing hockey actually pro overseas in Europe for a while and went back to the corporate world for barely a year and was like this is not for me. How the heck do I get out of it? I know so many people can relate to that and started just seeing this word copywriting. I'm Like, I need to do something in the writing world. And I. My first job was a $35 blog post, and I was still working corporate. And I was like, okay, one person has paid me. I know other people will. And that was all I needed. I took the jump. I don't know if I would totally recommend that to people, but that was what did it and put me over the edge. And I quit my corporate world and just kind of ran with it. And it has been the coolest roller coaster of a ride since. I've definitely pivoted and made changes along the way, but I have been, for the most part, been in this world of copywriters helping copywriters. And yeah, it has been a wild road for sure, let me tell you.
- [05:42]
A
So hockey. Most people don't think of hockey even. This is going to show my American side of me, as opposed to the Canadian that you are. But a lot of us don't even see women's hockey, you know, all that often. How does somebody go and play professional women's hockey? Like, how did that even happen?
- [06:00]
B
Well, I grew up with two older brothers, and that was pretty much how it happened. I tried to. My mom tried to put me in figure skating and all of the things because she was so happy to finally have a girl. And I was like, nope, I'm playing hockey with my brothers and doing, you know, hanging out with the boys, whatever. So I just kind of grew up into it and actually was able to do something with it. Yeah, I'm so grateful it got me my university degree. I went and played down in Chicago and then was able to go play pro as well. So, yeah, kind of a different start, I guess, but still ended up back into this unique entrepreneur world like everyone else.
- [06:36]
A
It was probably weird of me, but you just do not. Having met you in person and hung out with you, you don't strike me as like a big hockey player.
- [06:43]
B
I. Yeah, that's definitely not my style for sure. I was. I was more the. I guess quicker skater was my. More my style.
- [06:52]
A
Yeah. Okay, well, back. Back to copy. So, you know, you knew that you didn't want to do the corporate thing, but. And landed that first project. But how did you even find the first project? How did you know that you wanted to write, make that connection so you can make that first $35.
- [07:09]
B
Yeah, I always knew. I, like, I always had a knack for writing and I just didn't really understand how I could ever make money from it. And I think it. Well, I know it started on Facebook was how I first started finding people back in the world of, you know, when there was Facebook groups and that sort of world and activity going on. So, yeah, I was just posting, helping people and found. Started finding people that way. And once I got that one, I really just was able to, like, start snowballing things and just leverage that one person and turn it into the next one. And it's not like I was getting very big results from them. I was just getting people and building these relationships and getting them to introduce me to the next person. So that's really how I got going. Yeah.
- [07:57]
A
And today, I think a lot of those $35 blog post projects have kind of disappeared thanks to AI. You know, if you had to start today, what would you do differently or what would you lean into in order to find that first project?
- [08:15]
B
I would be leaning into relationships and connections. I was definitely doing that to an extent, as I was saying. But, yeah, especially in this world, like, connections are everything. With the whole trust recession and everything going on online, that's what I think people are really falling back on, is building these connections and actually meeting people and talking to your people and caring about your people. Yeah, that's absolutely where I would be starting for sure.
- [08:50]
A
And just. I'm guessing this is getting pretty obvious to people, but when you say trust recession, talk a little bit about that, what you're seeing. And I know you're kind of coming at this from the launch space, so you've seen a lot of changes in launches over the last few years, but. Yeah, what is that and what's causing it? How do we get through it?
- [09:09]
B
Yeah. So when I think about trust, like, every time I get online, I'm wondering, oh, is this actually a real person that I'm talking to? Is this just automated? Is this person even there? Do they even care? And that's, like, why I believe showing up live right now is so big. To build trust. I've been getting into doing more live webinars right now. Yes, Evergreen. And all of that stuff still works, but I think that there's this. This element of being in a room, live with your people right now and building that trust and building that rapport that is so, so important right now. So, yeah, that's. That's kind of where I'm going with that.
- [09:52]
A
Yeah, I. I agree 100%. Okay, so as far as your business develops, then, I mean, obviously, you know, you have that first project. What you're doing today is very different from writing blog posts. So how did you ev. Blog post? Writer getting started as a copywriter to where you're doing launches, you're, you know, mentoring other copywriters. You're doing, you know, some. Some really big stuff.
- [10:16]
B
Yeah. Gosh. So I will say my fame as a blog writer lasted that $1 35 blog post. As in, I did not enjoy doing it at all. I just knew that there was. I just didn't really feel like I was moving the dial in people's businesses or doing. Making much impact. Right. I just wanted to do a little bit more and actually help people. I got my first sales page, and I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. Like, man, I could see in real time people are landing on this page. They're either resonating with it and clicking through and purchasing or, you know, not moving on and not purchasing. And I thought that was just the coolest thing to see that impact and then go in and make little changes here and there and seeing how that impacted. So I really got into the world of sales pages, and I kind of ran with it. I don't know how many sales pages I wrote in my first few years, but it was a lot. And, yeah, loved really everything about sales pages. And that's how I got into building my first digital program sales page, prep school, and mentored copywriters inside that for quite a few years. And now with things kind of shifting even more, I'm starting to realize that, you know, there's more than just delivering words that copywriters like to be able to get paid right now. And that's really what I'm driving home in my messaging right now, because I so badly want to help copywriters, talented copywriters, but. And I should say it's more than just words that we need to provide. And I know you've been talking to people about this for years, right? About how we need to bring more strategy to the table for our clients and just more thinking. And that's really where I'm going to with my business now. I recently opened up a program this past summer called Lead the Launch, where I'm really helping them step into becoming launch strategists and really understanding messaging and conversions and these big picture launches, because I believe that that's what we need to be sustainable today as copywriters. We need to be able to just bring more to the table and be able to help our clients make more impact and really help them move the needle a little bit more.
- [12:38]
A
When you mentioned that we've talked a bit about, you know, strategy and doing More of that for a while. You know, on the podcast, with lots of guests, some of our programs. What does that look like to you when you're teaching a copywriter, you're saying, okay, yeah, let's, let's work on strategy or work on bringing additional thought to a project. What kinds of things are you helping them get their minds around?
- [13:05]
B
I think the biggest thing that I'm getting their mind around is believing that they are capable of doing it. I think like the confidence thing in general, we sometimes we are so narrow focused with our words, and yes, we're super talented, but we hand over this copy and then things take a completely different form because we're not involved in it. We don't know what that design sales page looks like, or we don't know what the strategy behind their plan of the sales page or the emails look like. And that's completely out of our control. So when I can help, copywriters just have that confidence to step up their role a little bit more and ask more important questions and understand these bigger pictures. It's a win, win for everyone. Their client gets more support and has more opportunity at bigger impact and more income, and so does the copywriter because they, you know, they only win when their client wins. Right. So, yeah, I think that there's just so much more that these copywriters and be doing once they believe that they should be in the room to talk about strategy.
- [14:17]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think you're. You're sort of hitting on something where we all sort of know more about strategy than we tend to think we do. And this is something I realized early on in my career, you know, working with designers. And I'm not meaning to offend designers in saying this, but it always felt to me like the writer on the team felt cared a little bit more about the strategy and the designer cared more about, you know, how things look or whatever. I know that's a blanket statement that doesn't apply across the board, really, but copywriting is strategic and the messaging part of that has to fit into, you know, whatever has to be communicated, you know, and so it feels like a natural, a natural skill set that we should be developing just naturally as we're writing copy. Can I say naturally a few more times?
- [15:05]
B
Yeah, yeah. No, it's so true about the. We know more than we think we do. Like, that's actually my whole ethos and what I'm trying to teach and the part of the title, even in my latest webinar, because you do know so much more than we think we do. And once we get into it and once we understand, oh, that actually is strategy that I've been doing and not just being an order taker. Right. When you're actually thinking about, okay, what's the next kind of line that's going to make someone actually pull their eyes down the page and keep reading or click over here or do the thing like that's. That is strategy. And so many people just maybe don't even realize that. So part of my job right now too is just helping copywriters understand. Yeah, you're probably doing more strategy than you think you are. You're just not packaging it up properly and selling it as strategy and undercharging and undermining yourself.
- [16:02]
A
Yeah, I agree. I mean, you know, when copywriters are hired to write, say, a welcome sequence and we sit down to plot out what's happening in each, you know, part of that, oftentimes we see that as the writing process, but that's actually the strategy, you know, in getting to the end. And, and we do a sales pages, we do with emails. We literally do it with. I mean, unless. Unless we are just taking assignments like a blog post. Yep, I'll write about your, you know, apple cider, whatever, and, and just give it to you. We're all doing it.
- [16:33]
B
Right. And that's why it's so important today to shift that and understand that, because AI is that perfect order taker. And so that's why we kind of need to step above that and share and communicate and reposition how much more we're bringing to the table for our clients.
- [16:48]
A
Yeah, you had a huge advantage, I think, in sort of learning sales strategy, in having to write, you know, all of those dozens and dozens of sales pages. And I'm curious, like, what the evolution of that was. Did you turn to other resources to learn how to write sales copy? Was it just trial and error and seeing what was happening? Like, how did you get so good at it?
- [17:11]
B
Yeah, I think it was a mix of a few things. I was definitely, I mean, I've been in your programs before too. Right. And understanding the whole business side of things. I certainly hired one on one coaches and got them to review my work. And I think that's really important. When I started writing sales page and sales pages and I'm like, okay, is this actually good? Getting feedback was really important. So actually doing the thing like learning the resources, taking the programs, hiring the coaches, but then implementing it and getting feedback, I think is really important. So, yeah, I would say a Mix of all of that and continuing. Continuing to do that. I never believe that, like, there's no end line of learning it and being done. Right. I'm still joining programs and still trying to uplevel and staying on top of trends and, yeah, still doing all of the things to continue to move forward as well.
- [18:08]
A
And as far as connecting with clients, you know, earlier you said, you know, Facebook groups and making connections. I'm assuming it still works. You know, as far as those sales pages or larger assignments, launches, that kind of stuff, it's all coming through connections a hundred percent.
- [18:23]
B
It's. Yeah. Like, I don't think the Facebook groups is as much of a thing as it was back maybe when we started. Right. But the people are still there. They're just hanging out in different places or they're talking in different groups online or whatnot. Right. And that's why I think it's really important being in programs and courses, but actually showing up in them and talking to people, talking to the mentors, being getting recognized in these programs because people talk to each other. Like, even me now mentoring copywriters in my programs. I see the people who are putting in the effort and asking the questions, and I remember their name, and I'm probably quick to refer them out when something comes my way. So, you know, if you're hearing this like, yeah, showing up in your programs and getting your name out there is one of the best ways to make connections.
- [19:21]
A
Yeah, I. I mean, connection seems to be coming up on a lot of my interviews that I've done recently as well. It's like, you know, it's so important, and yet there are so many copywriters who we work alone. You know, maybe we cold email and pitch and we don't get out there. We don't get to live events or we're not joining programs or groups, even the free ones that are out there and not taking advantage of that. And so I'm glad you mentioned this because I think, you know, it's just worth drawing a couple of underlines under this idea and saying, if you're not doing this, your business will not last. It just. It can't last without those connections.
- [19:58]
B
Yeah. And even, like, peer mentorship, too. I'm in. I have, like, a few voxer chats going with other business friends just checking in. Hey, what are you seeing? Like, you know, is. Is this something a common theme? Is it, like, often we think that these things are just happening, happening to us. Right. And other people are seeing it, and you kind of get a feel of what's going on in the market, too. So it can be as simple as just finding a few other close friends, too, and keeping these small groups alive as well.
- [20:27]
A
At some point, you also shifted to, you know, start offering some mentoring and some coaching and a couple of courses. So what happened in your business that made you think, okay, I really ought to lean into some of this stuff? And how did you start growing an audience for those products? Because it's a different kind of client in a lot of ways.
- [20:47]
B
It 100% is. Yeah, it's. That is still a work in progress, I would say, because when I first started, I had a mini product that did really, really well, and it attracted all course creators. And I kind of felt like, okay, that's gotta be the direction of my business. I'm only helping course creators. And then over time, this whole, like, copywriter started following me, and I never really fully accepted it, to be honest. And even just like, lately over this last year, because I've always kind of juggled like, okay, I speak to copywriters and course creators, and I teach all the time, hey, let's niche down. And I still wasn't even completely doing it myself. And I think it's the. What is like the 8020 rule that they say 20% of your clients come from? Or no, 20% of your. Other way around, 80% of your clients come from. 80% of your income come from 20% of your clients. I think I got it on that one. There it is. And that was. So what was happening to me. I had such a big audience, of course, creators, but it was just this very small audience of copywriters who were bringing in most of my income. So I really realized that I needed to niche down and just focus on the copywriters who were coming to me and asking for this stuff. So it eventually evolved into me kind of finally planting my flag and realizing that this is where I need to be in helping copywriters. And now lately, like, I'm a new mom and my time is so limited that I really had to prioritize where my income was coming from, where I needed to put my energy and what I enjoy doing. And I think with this whole AI thing blowing up, I have really found my home and heart in wanting to help copywriters because we're all so talented and we're so needed in the market. We just need to make some pivots and some shifts. Right? So I, Yeah, I've really leaned into helping copywriters over the last. Even so over the last year.
- [22:57]
A
And how do you validate the ideas that you have for programs or various, you know, the. The coaching that you're doing, even some of the promotional stuff that you've done. You know, the. The people jump in and learn and train from you. Like, how do you figure out, like, okay, this actually feels like a good idea. We're going to go with it. Are you testing any of that in advance or. Yeah.
- [23:19]
B
Yes, walk me through that process. For sure. So, yes, validating. Your offers are huge. I've had so many thoughts about, oh, this would be cool. This would be cool. And I'm like, no. Okay, let's reel back. Danny, is this actually viable? So, yeah, I put it out to my email list, my, like, smaller portion of copywriters, and ran with it. I got great feedback. People were very interested. I'm kind of speaking to my latest program, the launch right now, and how I've been talking about this shift into bringing your brain into more projects and learning strategy and whatnot. And so I put that out there and I got a really great response. And I always wanted to do a project like this and a program like this. I just never, never really felt like the right time or whatnot. And now with everything happening in the market and my life in such limited time, too, I'm like, okay, this is where I need to put my focus. This is where. Yeah, where I want to help people. And so put it out to my email list. I felt like that alone was huge validation in, like, my wait list kind of blowing up and just responses about getting, like, it being needed. Ran a webinar for it, and I think I had 28 founding members when I launched it. And then, yeah, ran it live. Kind of created it live this summer. Used all of their feedback, made it, catered it to the founding members exactly what they wanted. And so that was a huge validation. And now I'm kind of putting it all together again and putting it back out there. And we'll be marketing it again now, soon.
- [24:58]
A
Have you failed with any products that you've launched or courses?
- [25:01]
B
Oh, gosh, 100%.
- [25:04]
A
Let's talk about one of the failures. What did you do wrong? Or what was the what? Why did it fail?
- [25:09]
B
Probably didn't validate. I've had a lot of offers to them. Like, oh, yeah, as I was just saying, like, oh, yeah, this is a great idea. And I put it out there and like, crickets. So that's probably why I'm so huge on validating things, because we often see things completely Differently than our clients. Right. So, yeah, ton of failed attempts, for sure.
- [25:33]
A
It's. That's. I mean, from a listener standpoint, I think that's probably nice to hear because I see what you're doing, you know, in your business, and everything looks awesome. Like, you know, it's like, Danny, oh, yeah, has this charmed business and doesn't make mistakes and it all looks so good.
- [25:49]
B
That could not be further from the truth. I. I mean, half of my learning or half of being an online entrepreneur is like, not quote, unquote, failing, but just learning as we go. I think that's why my email list actually does really well. Like, I get such great feedback from my emails, and that's because I'm often just sharing all of the mistakes that I'm making or what I'm trying, just kind of sharing things on the go and bringing people along for the ride. So, yeah, my intention is to not make everything look perfect if that's what you're. You're seeing. That's. That's funny. But that's not real life for sure.
- [26:29]
A
It might have just a lot to do with your attention to detail, the way you put things together. It feels very polished and very professional. But that's also probably why people gravitate to you and love to hear from you because, yeah, you've definitely figured a few things out.
- [26:47]
B
Thanks, Rob. Well, I learned from the best, right?
- [26:50]
A
Yeah. Thank you. So let's talk about how you grow your email list, because, you know, there may be people who are thinking, okay, listening to Danny talk, listen to a couple of other guests we've had on the podcast, talk about, you know, offering courses or something, you know, shifting my business away from only being reliant on clients. But that's hard to do without an email list. You know, you can run ads, but obviously that gets really expensive. So how have you grown your lists to be able to support that kind of a business?
- [27:20]
B
Yeah, it's a great question. And I could not agree more. Like, if I'm giving any advice out to people getting going, it is to start your email list. I'm so grateful that I took that advice when I heard it. I was writing to my email list and just sharing stories. I had nothing at all to really offer them, but once I did, I was so grateful that I had an audience in front of me. So, yeah, thinking about ways that I grew my email list, I did join a lot of, like, collaborations. You know, again, I hate to keep using the word connections, but it did help a lot. I have Run a few summits as well, which was huge for me in getting my email list going. I hosted a summit and have been part of summits. I'm very picky about the summits I do join because I want to make sure that they are the right audience and the right people and the right values. So I'm really, I'm really picky when I join those things. But when I do, I know that they're usually pretty fruitful. But yeah, then running my own summit has helped a lot as well. Doing like, email swaps with other copywriters who have aligned audiences. They promote me to their email list. I promote them. That has been really helpful as well for me.
- [28:40]
A
Yeah, I mean, I've seen you do some of this stuff. In fact, I've participated, I think, in some of these collaborations that you've done. And you've done some really fun things. You know, the, the, you know, conversations, sort of almost hidden podcasts on Voxer, you know, that kind of stuff. And connected, I think, with other people's audiences in doing that. This feels like something that a lot of copywriters could be doing more of and maybe not just with audiences of copywriters. Obviously, you know, you and I talk to very similar audiences there, but even beyond that, to, you know, audiences within niches, audiences with other business owners where those connections can turn into writing projects in addition to selling, you know, courses or memberships or whatever.
- [29:23]
B
Yeah, for sure. And I think like guest speaking is huge. Getting into other people's programs who have your audience getting in front of them is huge for list building and finding one on one clients, that's another great way, thinking about clients. And yeah, list growth is getting into other people's programs, memberships, masterminds, and yeah, bringing value to them because it's amazing what can happen once you get in those rooms.
- [29:53]
A
I 100% agree. And I actually would love to hear, like, how you've done that, because I think there's two things that are going on when most copywriters think, okay, I need to get into somebody's room. One is I don't have anything to share. And two, how do I make that connection so that I am a trusted person who can present rather than somebody asking for a favor? And that's. It feels like that's something you've done. Obviously I've had a little bit of experience with that, but I'd love to know how you did that.
- [30:24]
B
Yeah, it's. I mean, it's never asking for a favor. It's always what Value can I bring to your audience? Right. Just like when we're making pitches to be on a podcast, for example, it's not, hey, I have this awesome thing that I want to talk about. It's, hey, how can I serve your audience and bring value to them? Right. I would be looking back at, okay, a, what kind of connections do I have with these mentors? Have I been in their programs before? Do I have rapport built with them already? Or do I know someone who could get me connected to these people? Actually following these people and being genuinely interested in them and learning about, you know, people post about their family and their life and whatnot. And when you can actually tap into that and they can see that, oh, you have actually been following them and are invested. And this isn't just a whim pitch because, you know, off the top of your head, you've actually put some effort into it is a big one as well. That's always the pitches that pull at me when I could tell that, oh, they've referenced something that I've maybe said quite a while ago. I know that they have been in my community and paying attention. So that's. Yeah, that's probably the biggest way to get your foot in the door. And then, yeah, asking around who can help you get into that person, because that's huge. If people can refer you, you're going to be looked at a lot quicker than just someone that they've never heard about.
- [31:55]
A
Yeah, it's, it's, it's important. I mean, the pitches. I get a lot of pitches for, you know, people who want to be on the podcast or whatever. And the ones that drive me crazy are the people who have, you know, they've just built a new tool. Maybe it's an AI tool or they've got a business or whatever. And I can tell, you know, they're. They're offering up and saying, hey, you know, I've done this amazing thing. Let's tell your audience about it. Instead of, here's something that could actually benefit your listeners, you know, and actually help them make progress in their business.
- [32:24]
B
Yeah, exactly. You gotta know who your audience is and then cater to that. Right?
- [32:29]
A
Yeah. You mentioned that you became a new mom a year or so ago. This is one of the reasons why we weren't able to get the podcast scheduled. You know, I was like, hey, let's have this. And you're like, I'm having a baby. Taking some time off. We'll, you know, wait and see. And then some other stuff happened as well. How has being a new mom impacted your business and made you change things in order to support, you know, what you need to be doing now?
- [32:56]
B
Oh my gosh. It has drastically change. I think that's obvious, maybe with any new parent. Like, I just don't have the time that I had before. So I have been just really ruthless about what I'm saying yes to and where I'm putting my energy and where I'm putting my focus. You know, I would spend way too much time on like an email, for example, just tweaking it. And maybe that's where the whole oh, you're so polished look comes from. Because I had the time to make sure it went out and there was no mistakes and now I don't have that time. And that's okay. I'm just kind of repositioning my business model and really need to dig deep and be honest about what tasks actually move my business forward and what are tasks that are just nice to have that don't actually generate money or aren't going to help me in the long run. So I would say yeah, that has been the biggest shift of just losing my time. But I really believe that I have been so much more productive with like I'm only working maybe 10 to 15 hours a week right now. And I truly believe that I am getting more done in that focus time than I was when I had the 40, 50 hours a week. Because there's another like person by. I think it is right that the time expands for tasks, expense for the time, amount of time that you have. Right, right. That is very much happening in my business right now. So yeah, that has been a huge shift.
- [34:33]
A
And what kind of strategies do you use to. To be able to. I mean, obviously there's a need there because your son needs you, you know, in his life and so there isn't time to get to your business. But how do you ensure that you're focused on the right things or that you're getting them done, you know, faster and in some ways as good or even better than you were before?
- [34:54]
B
Yeah, it's a good question. It's definitely something I have been trying to figure out myself because before every task seemed important because eventually it would lead to the right thing or it would lead to more clients and whatnot. So yeah, I just really had to get ruthless and I think the niching down was a big part of it too. Like I was trying to speak to. I have thousands of course creators on my email list, but when I looked at it, they weren't the ones actually paying me, it was this very small section of copywriters. So I really just had to sit down and be honest with myself. What is actually generating income? What do I enjoy doing? Where do I want my business to go? What makes sense for. With my time constraints? So really, like, had to sit down. I have notes of just, like, chicken scratch of me just writing and trying to get this all out on paper. Talking it out with people as well. Mentors, business coaches. Helped a ton and just helped me realize the direction that I need to go. And then I ran with it and just kind of put my, like, blind. Not blinders, but just got really great with my boundaries and got really good at saying no to what didn't matter anymore. And, yeah, that's. That's kind of where I'm at right now.
- [36:15]
A
And then when your baby was born, you know, there were some complications. You know, things haven't turned out maybe the way that you planned, you know, before your baby was born. How has that impacted just your. Just your, like, your outlook on what's important and how you come to work and, you know, things that you. We sort of have these plans for how life is going to turn out, and life has a funny way of turning them on their head and saying, yeah, I've actually got something else for you, and it might not be what you expect.
- [36:47]
B
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, it. Oh, Rob. It has been like my world has completely turned upside down in the last year. Yes, I was having had a baby, which I knew life would change as a new mom, but then put in this whole other layer of. He came out very unhealthy. We had massive complications that were not supposed to happen but did happen. We didn't think that he was going to make it, and he finally did, but he did. He's our little miracle baby. But we did get some really heartbreaking news at birth. He was diagnosed with cerebral palsy. And it has been so, so tough. You just never expect to have an unhealthy baby. Right. And now that I'm in this position, everything looks differently for good and bad, which is so interesting. Like, yes, I'm so devastated for what I thought motherhood would look like and raising a kid. And Archie has shown me so much more to life and of what is important, even little things. Like, I, you know, I was dreading waking up in the middle of the night and feeding a baby and, like, I would get no sleep and do all the things, and was I still able to, you know, have time to myself or Whatnot. And none of that matters. Like, oh, my gosh, I'm just so grateful that he's alive and home with me, and I just get the opportunity to try to give him the most fulfilling life that is possible. So, yeah, it's. It's completely shaken up my world, but I'm finally starting to come out of the, like. Like, the unbelievable ness of all of it and, like, really starting to understand what my new normal looks like now. So, yeah, it has. It has been quite the year, for sure.
- [38:56]
A
Yeah. And, I mean, I don't know if this is an easy question to answer, but, like, just mentally, you know, how do you. Like, obviously you're going through, you know, stages of grief and giving up on maybe what were dreams, and sort of piecing all of that back together as you go through that experience and finding something that's new and different. And in some ways, like you said, good. Maybe even better in some ways, but that's. It's like a really difficult process, and to be thrown into that, you know, without any kind of expectations that this was going to happen other than just, like, you got to get through it, like, you know, what does that look like mentally and. And physically, you know, for dealing with those kinds of. Of surprises.
- [39:41]
B
Yeah, I. I mean, I. I don't know if I have the perfect answer, to be honest. Like, I'm still trying to figure that out. I have absolutely been going to trauma therapy. I will say that. And that totally helps. But, yeah, like, I think realizing that life is, of course, not perfect and we can't. We cannot. You think life is going to go one way and it, of course, doesn't. I don't even know. Like, I wish I had the perfect answer, but I don't even know how to respond to that. I'm still trying to figure it out. I really am. I just look at this beautiful baby that I have, and I am so grateful for it because I know that it could have been worse. And I know that there's people out there who have lost their babies or who can't have babies, and so all of that puts a new perspective on, like, how grateful I am. And Archie really is doing amazing. Like, he's already. He's already doing more than the doctors told us he would, to be honest. So I have this, like, perfect little miracle baby, and I have just so much fight for him. I believe that he's going to do so much with what we've been given. And, yeah, I'm just. I'm so proud of him already. It's just given me such a greatest outlook now on life, even though I'm in such a hard stage of all of it.
- [41:16]
A
Yeah. I mean, you've shared a photo or two with your email list, you know, over the last year. So he's such a cute kid. And I mean, like, his smile. Like, I can only imagine how much joy that you and your husband have, you know, and just having him around, he's just such a. Such a cool kid.
- [41:35]
B
So much joy. And that's just it. Like, I think, like, what is the quote? Comparison is the thief of joy. And that's, like, really resonating for me right now because, yeah, I could sit here and look at, you know, he's 15 months old and he should be walking and seeing mom or doing all of these things, and we're still right back at the very start, you know, and so I've, like, totally thrown those milestones out the window, and I'm focusing on how amazing the Archie is in front of me. And yeah, just. And I think, like, the whole compare, like, comparison as a thief of joy, you can take that and run with it. No matter your situation in life with your. If you're a parent to a typically developing child, you know, still comparing your kid to someone else's only gonna. Not gonna be a positive thing. Right. And looking at our businesses, comparing our businesses to someone who maybe started a few years before us or someone who is doing better than us or whatnot, we just all have to realize we're on our own timeline and. Yeah. Focus on what we're doing and finding the good in that.
- [42:55]
A
Yeah, I love that. I mean, you mentioned how, you know, you've reached this point where you're showing up for him. Right. You have this fierce energy for him. And being able to apply that kind of energy to a business that's maybe failing or to whatever anybody else is struggling with. Everybody has struggles. Most of those struggles don't show through in really big ways. And oftentimes we're dealing with. With people who, you know, are angry or, you know, suffering in some other way, and we don't get to see that. And so I love that you show up with that fierce energy, and maybe more of us can be doing that for the people around us as well.
- [43:35]
B
Yeah, I still believe it. Thank you.
- [43:39]
A
Yeah. So let's talk about what's next for you. You know, I mean, obviously you're not going to get a lot more time back here in the near future, so things still have to be, you know, really dialed in and perfected. But, you know, how are you growing your business today?
- [43:55]
B
Yes, so I have, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, just showing up more live for my audience. So I have been working on doing more live webinars right now, and they will eventually be leading to my new program, Lead the launch. That's really where I'm putting a ton of my focus right now, is showing up for the members already inside and bringing more members in. So that's really my big to do for the remainder of the year. I'm also doing, like a website overhaul, so that's kind of second priority, I guess, right now. But, yeah, those are kind of the big things on my plate.
- [44:33]
A
That feels like enough.
- [44:35]
B
Yes, that is enough. That's plenty.
- [44:38]
A
That'd be enough for me. And I don't have a little child to take care of. So, yeah, Danny, if somebody, like, wants to connect with you and, you know, be, you know, see what you're sharing, maybe even learn about lead to launch, you know, as. As you're moving forward, you know, where should they go? What should they do?
- [44:57]
B
Yeah, for sure. You can check out leadthelaunch.com registration. You can see when my next live webinar is for that. And also come say hi. On Instagram, I'm always open to chat. I'm at Danny Page online and I'll.
- [45:11]
A
Just say your email's worth being on. You know, the stuff that you share is great. It's personal, but it's also like, you share life lessons, but it's also applicable to, you know, a writing business. There's a lot to learn and you've built an amazing business that's worth learning from. You're an amazing strategist who's worth learning from. So, yeah, jump onto Danny's list because it'll be worth it, I promise.
- [45:37]
B
Thank you. Thank you for having me, Rob. This has been amazing.
- [45:40]
A
Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks to Danny Page for sharing so much about her business and the challenges that she's faced over the past year and the impact that that's had on her business. You can jump on dani's list@dannypage.com Like I said, as we were to referring, recording her emails are great. They definitely are worth adding to your inbox after listening to our discussion. If you have strategies for dealing with the unexpected changes or things that don't go as planned in your life and business, I'd love to hear about them. I'm always looking for better ways to strategize for the future, so send them my way. And don't forget to check out Research Mastery, the proven research program that will help you write better, copy and sell more. Research Mastery will help you connect your conversion tactics with the deeply felt worldview that your potential clients are experiencing. You can find out more about it at thecopywriterclub.com researchmastery that's the end of this episode of the Copywriter Club Podcast. If you like what you've heard, please share it with someone that you know. If you don't know another writer or a freelancer that you can share it with, you can visit Apple Podcasts, you can visit Spotify, or you can visit whatever it is that you listen to your favorite podcasts and leave a review that always helps other people find the show. Show. If you haven't left a review before, now's the time. I promise. I promise. When you show the Copywriter Club podcast, your friends will thank you. I'll see you next week.