The Copywriter Club Podcast #469

An Email Masterclass with Jacob Suckow
Host: Rob Marsh
Guest: Jacob Suckow
Date: October 21, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast dives deep into the real practices, strategies, and opportunities within email marketing—far beyond the usual “build your list and send regular emails” advice. Jacob Suckow, a seasoned copywriter-turned-email agency owner, delivers an in-depth masterclass on scaling from solo projects to six-figure retainers, building durable client relationships, introducing revenue-share models, and leveraging newsletters as profitable assets. The conversation is packed with actionable insights, pricing transparency, and advice on evolving one’s role in marketing, including stepping into fractional CMO positions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jacob’s Evolution: Freelancer to Agency Owner to Fractional CMO

• Background & Growth:

  • Four years ago, Jacob was a freelancer discovering his approach to email. Today, he operates a successful agency, holds partnership-based CMO roles, and manages his own info products and newsletters (03:54).
  • He emphasizes: “I couldn’t predict...where everything is at today. Not a damn clue.” ([03:54])

• Major Shift:

  • Ownership has been key: Taking responsibility for not just writing, but also implementing and optimizing funnels, and managing end-to-end email activities. ([05:58])
  • The transition happened “by accident, but… the big intentional portion was recognizing, 'Oh, I’ve got to own as much of this as possible in order to be… sticky, selfishly, but then… valuable.'” ([05:58])

2. From Projects to Retainers: Structuring Client Relationships

• Moving Beyond Projects:

  • Most clients lack a dedicated email marketer; Jacob began pitching not just email writing, but also implementation and optimization, leading to long-term retainer relationships ([08:43]).
  • Seizing ownership: “For me, the pitch just switched to, yeah, we’ll write these to... we’ll write it and we’ll run them, and then if there’s any optimizations... do you mind if I share them?” ([08:43])

• Retainer Benefits:

  • Owning implementation and optimization led to “sticky” relationships that grew in scope and duration.
  • Example: A four-year client paid over $250,000, demonstrating the cumulative value of long-term engagement as opposed to project-based work. ([14:08])

3. Email Strategy as a Value Multiplier

• Strategy vs. Execution:

  • AI may handle mundane writing, but strategic sequencing and system-building are irreplaceable human skills.
  • “All those kinds of things are things that you can’t get by typing into ChatGPT: ‘Write me an email about my protein bar.'” ([13:16] - Rob)

• Owning the List:

  • True value comes from managing the list holistically, understanding customer journey, and tying messaging together across various sequences and campaigns ([14:08], [14:22]).
  • "Managing a list as a whole also has its own strategic approach based on the brand...” ([14:08])

4. Pricing Models & Economic Opportunity

• Project Mindset vs. Retainers:

  • Projects: Typical onboarding/indoctrination sequence ($50–$300 per email = ~$2,000 total).
  • Retainers: $3,000–$7,500 per month, often with revenue share, compounded over years.
    • “We structure all of our email marketing engagements on three-tiered pricing…” ([21:37])

• Jacob’s Transparent Pricing Model:

  • Option 1: $3,000/month + 7% rev share
  • Option 2: $5,000/month + 3% rev share
  • Option 3: $7,500/month flat
  • “Anyone who wants to go out and pitch it, good luck.” ([25:36])

• Scope of Work:

  • "Anything and everything attached to the email portion of the funnel…anything that's getting handled directly inside of the CRM, I am in full control of.”
  • “Daily emails plus anything that we need from an optimization standpoint and oversight of that and that creation in it from an email perspective…” ([26:03])

• Workload Dynamics:

  • Initial months involve heavy setup and foundational work (“foundations package”), tapering into ongoing optimization ([29:25]).

5. Graduating to Fractional CMO Roles

• How & Why:

  • Frequently, a retainer relationship expands as Jacob’s strategic input demonstrates impact across the entire funnel and customer journey ([33:19]).
  • “If you want to put your marketing knowledge to the test, there’s nothing like it. It comes with high risk—more responsibility, but more reward.” ([39:59])

• What It Looks Like:

  • Involves ownership of multiple channels (email, SMS, CRM), tying together the business’s marketing efforts.
  • Pressures and rewards: You either “scale or fail.”
    • “Either get fired because we did too good, or it wasn’t happening.” ([40:36])

6. Newsletters as Business Models & Assets

• Fundamental Insight:

  • “It was the most reliable lever to...continuously pull if we wanted more cash. It was either send more emails or get more subscribers.” ([42:49])
  • Email remains the single unchanging tool for online business: “If you look at the one thing that's...held constant for the entirety of the Internet, it has been an email address.” ([43:43])

• Newsletter Strategy:

  • Building, acquiring, or growing niche newsletters for ad revenue, affiliate partnerships, and product launches.
  • Focus on curation and engagement, not just news: “What I’m looking for is all curation. I like the tone and the spin these people put on this specific topic…” ([44:22])
  • Newsletters can be sold as assets (5x–7x multiples are not uncommon), and are a durable, sellable business model ([47:00]).

7. Building, Scaling, and Monetizing a List—Jacob’s Playbook

• Growth Playbook:

  • Jacob runs static image ads to a simple opt-in/upsell funnel, investing a fixed percentage of revenue back into advertising ([49:06]).
  • Subscriber acquisition cost: “We’re getting subs for like $3 to $4 a pop... There’s no way that I can’t get $3 to $4 in return off those subscribers inside of a 30-day basis as long as I have good products to sell.” ([49:06])

• The Value of Even a Small List:

  • “You can make so much more off such a small list…on a list of 500 for the first year...I did like $64,000.” ([49:06])
  • Ownership of the audience is “the most valuable asset”—and a way out of the predictably unstable client services grind ([49:06]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Not Predicting the Future:

  • “I couldn’t predict...where everything is at today. Not a damn clue.” — Jacob ([03:54])

• On Taking Ownership:

  • “I’ve got to own as much of this as possible in order to be...valuable.” — Jacob ([05:58])

• On Why Strategy Matters:

  • “You can't get this by typing into ChatGPT: ‘Write me an email about my protein bar.’” — Rob ([13:16])

• On Value of Results:

  • “I want more credit. But then I wanted those results, and I realized those results were key…” — Jacob ([08:43])

• On Retainer Longevity:

  • "I could not have ever predicted...that I would have a client who was going to pay me over $250,000." — Jacob ([14:08])

• On Pricing:

  • "We go 3k plus 7%, 5k plus 3% or 7,500 flat per month. And that's the very basis." — Jacob ([21:37])

• On Newsletters:

  • “It was either send more emails or get more subscribers. That binary decision right there is huge...” — Jacob ([42:49])

• On Asset Building:

  • "If you own that data, it's the most valuable...asset that you could be grabbing right now." — Jacob ([52:42])

Important Timestamps

• 03:54 – Jacob’s business evolution since his last appearance
• 05:58 – Shifting from freelancer to agency owner & taking full ownership
• 08:43 – Pitching retainer relationships & managing implementation
• 13:16 – The strategic value of email; human vs. AI
• 14:08 – Distinction between project vs. retainer; “owning” the list
• 21:37 – Jacob’s transparent, three-tiered pricing model
• 26:03 – Scope of work for clients, defining deliverables
• 29:25 – Onboarding phases, workload flow
• 33:19 – Stepping into (fractional) CMO roles from email retainers
• 39:59 – The high-risk, high-reward of CMO/funnel strategy work
• 42:49 – Building and monetizing newsletters as assets
• 49:06 – Jacob’s playbook for building a responsive, profitable list
• 54:41 – Where to find Jacob’s playbook and join his list

Resources and Links

• Jacob Suckow’s Playbook & List: go.emailempire.org/playbook
• Research Mastery: thecopywriterclub.com/researchmastery

Episode Tone & Takeaways

This conversation is candid, tactical, and ambitious, reflecting Jacob’s sharp practical mindset and willingness to share “trade secrets.” The tone is energetic, encouraging copywriters to think bigger—about owning results, structuring deals for durability, and building assets rather than only executing one-off writing projects. The overall message: email strategy is a lucrative, evolving playground—if you’re willing to claim more responsibility and leverage the business-building possibilities.

Listen to this episode for a deep-dive masterclass and bookmark for future reference, especially if you want to future-proof your copywriting business or evolve into a more strategic marketing role.