The Corporate Director Podcast
Episode: C-suite Views on Board Performance
Date: June 25, 2025
Host: Diligent (Dottie Schindlinger & Megan Day)
Guest: Arielle Berlin, Director at PwC's Governance Insight Center
Overview: Navigating Board Governance in a 'BANI' World
This episode explores how C-suite executives perceive board performance in an era characterized by unprecedented disruption, complexity, and change. Hosts Dottie Schindlinger and Megan Day introduce the emerging 'BANI' framework, which defines today’s environment as Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, and Incomprehensible, supplanting the older 'VUCA' model. The focus shifts to insights from PwC’s annual C-suite survey on board effectiveness, with expert guest Arielle Berlin dissecting key findings, gaps, and practical recommendations for modern governance.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. From VUCA to BANI: Reframing the Boardroom Landscape
- BANI Explained (01:04)
- Brittle: Seemingly strong systems that may collapse without warning (e.g., Silicon Valley Bank’s rapid fall).
- Anxious: Social media and digital communication intensify fear and crisis.
- Nonlinear: Events no longer play out predictably; small triggers create outsized consequences.
- Incomprehensible: Complexity outpaces traditional logic, making planning difficult.
“Instead, we are in a BANI world—brittle, anxious, nonlinear, and incomprehensible.”
— Megan Day [01:19]
- Implication: Boards need holistic adaptation, fostering resilience, emotional intelligence, and dynamic, rather than static, governance.
2. The C-suite View: Highlights from PwC’s Board Effectiveness Survey
About the Survey
- 520 US Senior Executives from public companies ($1B+ revenues), spanning multiple industries.
- Focus areas: Board composition, refreshment, expertise, risk, and board–C-suite relationships. [07:33]
Key Findings
- Executive Confidence in Boards
- Only 35% rated their boards as ‘good’ or ‘excellent’—an increase from 30% last year. [09:00]
- 93% say at least one board director should be replaced, compared to only 49% of board directors themselves. [09:00]
- 88% trust their board to engage shareholders well; 70% think boards could guide through crisis, both increasing from prior years. [09:00]
“Only 35% of executives this year rated their boards as excellent or good ... but actually this was a nice increase from last year.”
— Arielle Berlin [09:00]
- Gaps in Perceptions
- Disparities in ‘board grades’ depending on executive function:
- CFOs—most positive (72% rate boards excellent/good).
- CIOs—most critical (40% rate board effectiveness as poor). [11:20]
- The gap may relate to the time spent with the board and a knowledge mismatch, especially in areas like technology.
- Disparities in ‘board grades’ depending on executive function:
“I think that many CIOs may feel that their board lacks a deep understanding of areas like AI and cyber ... part of it is a language gap.”
— Arielle Berlin [11:20]
-
Expertise Demands Are Evolving
- Executives now want more international, AI, and sustainability expertise, shifting from the traditional emphasis on industry or CEO backgrounds. [13:15]
- This change reflects the demand for operational insights relevant to real-time risks.
-
Top Risks on Executives’ Minds [15:20]
- Talent management
- Supply chain
- AI
- Executives want more boardroom time devoted to AI and talent challenges.
-
Director Overreach or Necessary Engagement?
- The percentage of executives feeling boards are ‘overstepping’ doubled from 16% to 32%. [15:42]
- This may not be true overreach but an outcome of boards trying to understand emerging risks.
“As boards are also trying to wrap their hands around all of these new and emerging risks, they are naturally asking more questions.”
— Arielle Berlin [16:14]
- Talent Now at the Forefront
- 38% want talent prioritized by the board, up from 12% last year. [17:18]
- The growing focus on talent is tied to broader trends like AI’s impact on the workforce.
3. Recommendations & Forward-Looking Perspectives
-
For Executives:
- Help boards upskill, educate, and bring in more C-suite members for regular boardroom dialogue. Leverage outside experts as needed.
-
For Boards:
- Proactively learn about emerging and complex risks. Bridge the knowledge gap to align with executive needs.
"Boards can focus on upskilling themselves in areas of emerging risks ... we can come to better alignment and bridge some of that gap."
— Arielle Berlin [18:50]
4. Future of the Boardroom
- AI and Technology Influence:
- Both the host and guest agreed that artificial intelligence will have a significant presence, possibly including "robots at the board table" in a decade. [20:38]
5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Scenario Planning in a BANI World:
“It's this ever pervasive feeling of the next shoe is going to drop, and we don't know whether it's a shoe, a boot, a slipper, a flip flop ... we have no idea what to expect.”
— Dottie Schindlinger [02:24] -
On International Expertise Surge:
“International ... has skyrocketed ... it's almost as if executives were able to anticipate some of the issues we are now facing in terms of supply chain and trade wars.”
— Arielle Berlin [13:56] -
On Governance Lessons from TV:
“It's a show about survival in a post-crisis underground city ... how things can go really badly with the wrong leadership and with too many secrets.”
— Arielle Berlin (on ‘Paradise’ on Hulu) [21:13] -
On the Board–C-suite Disconnect:
“Directors are maybe overstepping their bounds, but at the same, on the other hand, CEOs are like, I'm not getting what I want ... it reiterates this idea of how hard everything is right now.”
— Megan Day [22:19]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- BANI Model Introduction & Breakdown – [00:58] to [02:46]
- Introduction to PwC C-suite Survey – [07:33]
- Key Findings: Board Ratings & Refreshment – [09:00]
- Variations by Executive Role – [11:20]
- Expertise Needs and Internationalization – [13:15]
- Top Risks for Executives – [15:20]
- Director ‘Overstepping’ – [15:42]
- Talent Management Surge – [17:18]
- Advice for Boards and Executives – [18:50]
- Future of Boardrooms (AI/Tech) – [20:38]
Additional Insights: Practical Takeaways
- Boards must embrace dynamic, data-driven scenario planning to cope with a BANI environment.
- Meaningful board–C-suite collaboration relies on education, upskilling, and regular conversation—especially involving tech-focused roles like CIOs.
- The definition of necessary board expertise is shifting, reflecting the pressure from geopolitical shifts, rapid AI adoption, and talent shortages.
Resources Mentioned
- PwC Governance Insight Center:
Find the report “Board Effectiveness: A Survey of the C Suite” on the PwC website under Feature Publications or contact Arielle Berlin directly for a copy. [20:03] - BANI Model Article:
“Navigating BANI: An Action Plan for Boards” (Directors & Boards magazine) - TV Recommendation:
“Paradise” on Hulu (for governance allegories)
Closing Thoughts
This episode underscores the widening gap between what executives need and what boards deliver, compounded by a new, unpredictable BANI landscape. Governance in the digital age demands forward-thinking scenario planning, continuous learning, and deeper engagement between board members and diverse C-suite leaders.
“It's about making sure you're building that resilience muscle ... really bringing foresight front and center into the boardroom.”
— Megan Day [24:31]