Ep 101. Hiring Great Employees With The Right Attitude

Summary

The Cost of Doing Business – Ep 101
Hiring Great Employees With The Right Attitude
May 25, 2026
Host: Weston Zimmerman
Guests: Sean & Carrie Sweeney, Blue Ribbon Property Improvements

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Weston Zimmerman sits down with Sean and Carrie Sweeney, owners of Blue Ribbon Property Improvements, a leading fencing and landscape company in New Hampshire, at the Northeast Hardscape Trade Show 2026. They dive deep into the core challenges and solutions around hiring and retaining great employees, fostering a resilient business culture centered on attitude over raw skill, and building systems to support sustainable growth in the green industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Business Background & Structure

• Blue Ribbon started as a fencing company in the early ‘90s, now employing 20–25 people, handling fencing, landscaping, pools, hardscapes, and campus maintenance projects (01:51–03:17).
• Crew structure: Multiple two-person crews with floaters to flex across tasks (03:00–03:36).
• Year-round employment: Landscape crews shift to fencing in winter, minimizing seasonal layoffs (03:59–04:31).

2. Using Systems to Scale & Adapt

• Transition to using SynkedUP software, moving from spreadsheets to digital estimation and job management (05:25–07:14).
• Adoption was incremental: “You don’t have to boil the ocean... solve the problem that’s in front of your face right now.” – Weston (06:34).
• Result: Frees up Sean & Carrie from day-to-day estimations/fires to focus on growth and higher-value tasks (07:14–08:30).

3. Letting Go & Gaining Trust

• Systematizing estimations empowered other staff to take on client work without losing oversight (08:30–09:04).
• “You have to gain trust in your employees, especially when they're doing the estimates.” – Sean (10:22).

4. Hiring Philosophy: Attitude Over Skill

• Relationships and reputation attract applicants, including those from nontraditional backgrounds (11:21–12:36).
• Finding and leveraging unique talents (e.g. a computer science grad excelling at grading landscaping) (12:36–13:43).
• Focus on support, flexibility, and fostering strengths: "For every weakness that I may have, I try to hire somebody with a strength" – Sean (12:53).
• “If you come to us and you don’t have the experience, but you have a great attitude, that’s the type of people we want to hire.” – Carrie (17:52).

5. Culture of Support & Flexibility

• Actively support employees' families, balancing personal needs with business: “If a guy has a kid that plays softball... we make it happen. Family is very important as a family business.” – Sean (14:09).
• Openness in acknowledging when a role doesn’t fit with someone’s life stage, and welcoming former employees back (15:54–16:29).

6. Overcoming Challenges & Investing in Employees

• Biggest challenge: Consistently hiring, supporting, and growing employees through changing times, especially post-COVID (16:41–18:30).
• Solution: Invest in attitude, offer training/certification, attend industry events as a team (18:47–19:45).
• “When you invest in employees, they feel like they're wanted and they're doing their job.” – Sean (19:15).

7. Leadership & Self-Reflection

• Memorable advice from Sean’s father: “Use a mirror, not a telescope... starts from the top down.” (21:22–22:26).
• Importance of self-analysis and not overcorrecting to tolerate poor performance—finding the right balance (22:54–23:59).
• "Change is a thing that’s uncomfortable, you don’t want it... but if you don’t want to deal with the current problem... the only thing that’s going to change that is change." – Weston (24:28).

8. Importance of Systems & Knowing True Costs

• Early days lacked proper systems—worked hard, wore “every hat,” priced jobs by the square foot without knowing true costs (26:35–27:59).
• Key lesson: “If you start off and you have the right systems in place and know what your true numbers are and what your systems are costing you, that’s when you make those changes.” – Sean (27:56).
• Encouragement to “not confuse easy (square foot pricing) with right,” and transition to job-costing systems using templates and updated overhead (29:12–31:21).

9. Results: More Control, More Family Time

• Improved systems mean more flexibility: working remotely, greater family participation, vacations that are truly possible (31:30–32:23).
• “Now I can work from anywhere and I can check on jobs.” – Sean (32:04).
• Key driver: reliable managers & robust systems enable time away from day-to-day tasks (32:35–33:19).

10. Continuous Growth & Partnership

• Blue Ribbon is committed to goal-setting: planning 1, 3, and 5-year growth targets (33:03–33:20).
• Strong partnership with SynkedUP—a platform Sean & Carrie view not just as a tool, but as a “support team” (34:12–34:48).
• “We're not here to get rid of you. We're here to partner with you... we’re here to help.” – Weston (34:48–35:10).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Finding the Right Hire

  • “If you come to us and you don't have the experience, but you have a great attitude, then that's the type of people we want to hire.” – Carrie (17:52)

• On Supportive Leadership

  • “For every weakness that I may have, I try to hire somebody with a strength. That’s what builds a good team.” – Sean (12:53)
  • “Use a mirror, not a telescope.” – Sean, quoting his father (21:22)

• On The Power of Systems

  • “If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got.” – Sean (24:52)
  • “It's a little bit like saying, well, I'm going to dig this ditch with 40 people and shovels… or with a machine. Work toward that machine.” – Weston (32:52)

• On Culture

  • “We really try to support [employees] and understand that family really comes first.” – Carrie (14:46)
  • “When you invest in employees, they feel like they're wanted and they're doing their job.” – Sean (19:15)

• On Personal Growth

  • “Change is a thing that it’s uncomfortable, you don’t want it, you want to avoid it. But if you don’t want to deal with the current problem you’re dealing with, the only thing that’s going to change that is change.” – Weston (24:28)

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Key Timestamps

• Company structure & crew model: (01:51–03:36)
• Transition to SynkedUP & systems thinking: (05:25–07:14)
• Letting go and leadership trust: (08:30–09:04)
• Hiring with attitude focus: (10:22–14:46)
• Family culture & flexibility: (14:46–16:29)
• Challenges with hiring post-COVID: (16:41–18:30)
• Personal leadership philosophy: (21:22–23:59)
• Building business systems: (26:35–31:21)
• Family, flexibility, and future planning: (31:30–33:20)
• Partnership reflections with SynkedUP: (34:12–35:10)

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Conclusion

This episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at how authentic relationships, a focus on attitude, transparent systems, and supportive leadership lead to loyal teams and sustainable business growth. Sean and Carrie’s honesty about the challenges—and the importance of continual change and self-reflection—provides practical, actionable wisdom for any business owner struggling with hiring, retention, and scaling up.

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Contact Blue Ribbon:
Website: blueribbon.nh.com
Social: Blue Ribbon Companies on Instagram & Facebook

Learn more about SynkedUP:
Book a demo at synkedup.com

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Cost of Doing Business podcasts. Things on Instagram are pretty shiny, but here we're going to get to the reality behind the scenes on the hard journey of growing a business so we can all learn from each other. I'm your host, Weston Zimmerman, co founder of Synced Up. Been in the green industry my whole life. Let's get into it. Welcome back to another episode of the Cost of Doing Business podcast. We are here at the Northeast Hardscape Trade Show 2026, which is, I believe, our fifth year at this show because we met four years ago. Yeah, four or five years ago. We're here with Sean and Carrie from Blue Ribbon Morning. I will let them introduce themselves, but looking forward to this conversation. Great customers, longtime friends. So thanks for doing this.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You're welcome, Absolutely.

[B]

I'm Sean Sweeney. My wife Carrie. We own Blue Ribbon Property Improvements. We are Fencing landscape company out of New Hampshire. We employ about 20 to 25 employees. 20 full timers, five to, I'd say seven seasonal.

[A]

Sure. Yeah.

[C]

I'm a landscape architect, so I do and handle all the landscape designs, estimates. And then we have a landscape supervisor that runs. Runs the rest of the show after that, after the designs are done. And then I also run the office as well.

[A]

Okay, so that's what I was gonna ask.

[C]

Yeah. So. So I'm. I'm the book woman.

[A]

So you're cracking the whip.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

For the rest of the team.

[B]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[A]

Somehow the bookkeepers always do.

[B]

She runs the show.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Runs the show.

[A]

Yeah. So to give us, everybody, listen, kind of an idea of like, what kind of work is like your dead center, bread and butter. Like, what would you say is like, this is what we're best at. This is what we're set up for.

[B]

Yeah. So we started off originally as a fencing company.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My father started the company early 90s, and I joined Blue Ribbon. I joined forces with him in 2000. So we started off fencing is, I would say, priority of our income comes from fencing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Landscaping portion of it. This year here, we actually are starting to do a lot more softscapes with Carrie being the landscape architect. We found that the plantings are really going to be a big portion of our company. Okay. We install swimming pools. We do a lot of hardscapes. Yeah. We install soak pools. I don't know if you're familiar with them, but we've teamed up with them and they've done a really good job for us. But we do. We work with a bunch of pool companies. So we do the Full gamut of a pool project. So we don't install the pool except for soaks. Other than that, we'll work with other pool companies. Carol, do all the design.

[C]

Right. Do all the landscaping around it. The design, the patios.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So how many crews do you run?

[B]

About ten.

[A]

So. So that your team is a lot of two men. Two men.

[B]

Fencing's two man teams. Yep. And then we also take care of. We have a maintenance contract. We've been doing Southern New Hampshire University's campus.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

For over 20 years now. Really. So we manage the property there. Okay.

[A]

And.

[B]

Yep. So we were fine.

[A]

Does your team like the way you split up your teams? Are they like. Okay, you're a fencing crew. You're another crew. Like, is it split up by skill?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[C]

Yeah. We might have some floaters, you know, that work on both.

[A]

We do that a lot at Tassie too. Like you have like your core one to two man. Your two man team usually, and then floaters to kind of help.

[C]

Absolutely, exactly. Yeah.

[A]

Which is actually a really good way to provide efficiency at scale when you have multiple crews. Because when you have like the core team. Core two person team, plus some floaters to kind of add manpower where needed. Like you can. You can pull back the. The waste on the crew on the. On the job site when it's not needed and go somewhere else where it is needed.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

It really is an infant.

[C]

It gives you some flexibility.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It also provides some work through the winter for us as well. Because when our landscape starts to slow down for the winter, our landscape guys can actually go and move to fencing because we can fence throughout the winter. So most of the time we might get shut down for maybe this year

[B]

was a little tricky. We had a lot of snow. Don't for us, but a lot of snow.

[C]

But that helps. So you know, our landscape guys, you know, they'll go work with our fence crews in the. In the wintertime because we like to. We like to keep everybody employed year round.

[A]

Okay, that's gonna be my next.

[C]

We only have a few. A handful of seasonal employees and those are our college and high school kids.

[A]

And are they all paid hourly or do. Yeah. So if it is truly winter can't work then, then. Okay, got it.

[B]

Managers. So we have. There's three managers that work under us that their salaries. But everybody else is for the most part, right?

[C]

Well, no one is salary and two are.

[A]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, Very good. Well, that gives me a great picture of what you're doing, what your team looks like what? So I'm gonna. I'm gonna go on a caveat a little bit here. Like, with. With what coming into your fifth year of synced up, like, what would you say has been the progression of, like, hey, the first year, this was the most useful. Now, year five, this was more like what we're focusing on. I'm just curious, like, what that progression looks like for you.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

So.

[C]

So I think the first thing we started off was using it to put estimates together. I mean, that was to build our item catal catalog. That was huge. And to be able to put estimates together because we were using Excel spreadsheets to. To do our estimates in the past. And so that was our first start, and that was awesome. We haven't used much of the payroll portion of it, but we are still using timesheets. So we want to log everybody's time on the jobs. So I think what we have to work on, like, kind of this year, I think is more of the scheduling part of it, because we really haven't used the scheduling part.

[A]

So scheduling more or less remained on a white border in your head. Exactly. Yeah, it still does.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think that we are trying to. We're going to be adding two more users April 1, and we're going to start training them on how to use it because we want to really be more efficient on what we're doing, when we're doing and what we're using, how long it's going to be taking. So we'll be using the calendar.

[A]

I like what you're saying, because I think the point there that I want people to hear about that is, is that you don't have to boil the ocean. Like, you can get incredible value and ROI on a tool like this just by solving the problem that's in front of your face right now. You know, you don't have to go out there and use the feature buried in the next section of the menu that you never even looked at yet. But now here you are, okay, problem solved. Next one. You know, and that is actually what growth looks like, I think too much of the time, we think like the expectation. We put too high of an expectation on ourselves. And I'm gonna do everything, and then I don't do everything well, then it's not worth at all, you know. True.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So I'd say. I would say in the beginning, you know, for me, it was tough. It's a change. Not many people like change. Right. So it was tough. Carrie had to really convince me into switching over from the pen and paper right into doing this. However, like you're talking about with growth now, now we have three people out there doing estimates other than us. Right. They're able to take huge new estimates for us, which is huge because we couldn't do it. We couldn't do it all. And then now we're able to focus on growth of the company and stop putting out the fires and doing the small things that we can have somebody do. So when it comes to your program, for me, the biggest take that I've seen is allowing other employees to be able to do and for us to see the outcome of it. Like, we can literally look at every single point of that job and how it's going and say, hey, listen, we gotta look at this, because we're off a little bit. Our hours. We have. We still have half the fence to put up. And we're already. Three quarters. Yeah, we're three quarters. What's going on? You know. Oh, we're bad digging. We're having a jackhammer. Okay, well, jackhammer is an additional charge. Right. So now we can start to talk to the customer and get an additional payment. So that, to me, has been the biggest thing for us. Recovering our unseen hours. Yep. In which we were never able to get before.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I think that's what I'm hearing in that story is like, okay, it's one thing to, quote, systematize something to where somebody else can do it. That's great. And I think often the fear that owners have of doing that is that they can't see what's happening when they let go. And the way you just articulated that was like, not only did we systematize it, now other people can do what I used to do. Not only that, but I can still see and monitor exactly what's going on here.

[C]

So important.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that. I think that's a huge. Because, like, when you. That's. That's a big fear killer in terms of, like, letting go.

[C]

Letting go. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Change is definitely tough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We've gone through a lot in the last few years.

[C]

Well. And you don't want to. You know, as a manager, you don't want to. You feel like you're managing everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And you can't. You know, especially when you get bigger. And we want to grow. You know, we're about a $3 million company, so I've heard. You know, a lot of companies get to a 3 million mark and then they stay right there. And you kind of, what, the owner operates exact. Exactly so I'm kind of looking at like, okay, how are we going to get out of that? So we're really focusing on our business and our numbers and our systems.

[A]

Some roles are easier than others. Like for instance, like I fight the exact same battle just in a different business. Right?

[B]

Yes. Right.

[A]

But like, you know, for instance, like bookkeeping is so methodical, so precise that I find my personal experience has been, is. It's been much easier for me to delegate and have somebody else do a precise process like that. That's the same way every time.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

The one that takes intuition, experience, that one's harder.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

You know?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So true. So it's not. Maybe, maybe you're. What I'm trying to say is maybe if you're having a hard time delegating, maybe you have the wrong people, that's one thing. Or B, maybe you're trying the hardest one first. How about let's go take off some of those ten dollar tasks that are just annoying and suck five minutes out of your day twenty times a day, you know? Yeah, let's go, let's go get those.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Well, I will tell you one thing that we found last couple years when talking about having the right employees is we have had a lot of people knocking at our door, meaning wanting to come work for us.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a huge credit.

[B]

So I feel that the next few years it's gonna be very good. It has allowed us to do that. You gotta gain trust in your employees, especially when they're doing the estimates. Right. You have to. And we've been lucky. We've had a great support team behind us and definitely allowed us to, to do a little bit more with the company.

[A]

So what do you think it takes to get people to knock on your door like that? Because I would say labor is probably the hardest thing even for really good people, you know, like what? Is there anything that you're like, well, I mean, maybe it's luck, but this is also something that we've done. Or this is what people mention when they come ask, is there anything you feel like you could be as share worthy to other people that wish they had that?

[C]

Oh gosh. Well, I feel like the people that we, you know, that have knocked on our door recently are people that we've created relationships with over the past, you know, 30, 20, 30 years.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

So you never kind of know, you know, when they're going to knock on your door. So I think that's hard to say. Is it luck? Is it, are you bringing people in because you're drawing people in. I don't know. I don't think I can answer that.

[B]

I think the other thing that's important to know is, you know, we're down here at this convention and we brought down eight people with us. Right. So a lot of the new hires that we've had for Foreman that have skill, they are in their late 20s, early 30s, which. That was missing for a while. One of the guys we hired last year, he is. Was in the computer field. He has his bachelor's in computer. Was it computer science or something like that? And he loves being outside. He tried it for a year, couldn't do it. So now he's back outside, and he is with angles and grades and pitches, and he's phenomenal with that. Right. We found a strength in him. We're using him for grading. We're using him for that portion of our company. So we try to take. For every weakness that I may have, I try to hire somebody with a strength. And that's what builds a good team. And I think it's not always about winning. It's about support. It's about supporting your team. We can't. There's days we go out there and it's a tough day. Things don't always go as planned, but you have to support your player. And the next day you get right back out there and you hit it again. I think having support for your employees, the other thing I will say is having the right. Having the right information at the right time always helps. Right. We always try to control what we can control. And the stuff that we can't control, we can't control. Right. So for instance, when we're talking about synced up, our guys are in the field, if they have a question about how much material they're supposed to be getting or how much, you know, other. Other material, I guess questions or layout designs, it's all right there at their fingertips. Where before you'd have a piece of paper would rain it blow away or something would happen. So having the right tools.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Definitely attracts the right employees.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think that really helps.

[A]

Yeah. It makes me think, like there's nothing more frustrating as an employee to be felt like you're, you're, You're. You're hamstrung by the fact that I got to get the owner to pick up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know the answer.

[C]

Yes. Right. Yes.

[A]

I can't make a decision. I can't move forward. I can't until I can talk to you. That's that's frustrating. If you have a player, employees, that's really frustrating for them. And if you can't ever let go, you're going to lose those people.

[B]

Yeah. We call it mood setting. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What's mood setting to you? And we're doing an interview where we want to know what that, what makes that person, what's their mood in the morning, what changes their mood, what makes them happy, what makes them happy. Right. So yeah, we really do. And the other thing I will tell you that we try to do is we do care a lot about their families, our employees. So, you know, if a guy has a kid that plays softball or plays hockey, we try to make sure if they have a game, they let us know. We make it happen. So family is very important as a family business. We care a lot about families. And yeah, I think that goes a long ways with guarantee, you know that.

[C]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. We have employees that have aging parents and they need to leave to take them to the hospital or doctor's appointments or pick them up off the floor. So it's, you know, it's. Those are the things that you can't plan for. You don't know what's going to happen. So we really try to support them and understand that, you know, family, family really comes first. And we're such a small company that we really know our employees pretty well and so. And we spend so much time together. Right. So they do be kind of come become family.

[A]

They do.

[C]

Really.

[A]

And I think maybe a thing that causes frustration as an employee is like when your work is incompatible with your reality and personal life, like say agents or kids or whatever it is. Like if your work is just constantly like chafing away at what is reality in your personal life, like that's also what makes you lose good people.

[C]

It becomes too difficult. Yeah.

[A]

So sometimes, sometimes it's not that you have to like make room for everybody. Sometimes it's just like, well then maybe it's not the right. Maybe because of that situation you have personally, we can't really make it work here. Right. It's not like it's an always thing. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yep, absolutely.

[A]

But, but having an open eyed conversation about that is, is key.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We always say you can, you can change, you can't change your family, but you can change your job. Your job's usually your easiest thing that you can change. Right. And when you're going through tough times or like you're saying it's not compatible, a lot of Times can happen. It happens, it happens.

[A]

And when it's for legit reasons like that, it's not. It's nobody's fault. It's just a.

[B]

We have people come back all the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But our landscape manager, she worked with us out of high school, and she came back 20 years later.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And with a book of knowledge. And it's. She's amazing. And handles. Yeah, a lot. She's a lot. And she's like family. And it was great to have her come back, you know, so.

[A]

Yeah, it's amazing. So what would you say is your most difficult challenge that you've overcome in your. In your business journey?

[B]

I'll go for that one. We're pretty much been talking about it.

[C]

I think employees have been that challenge, you know, because, you know, everybody is different. You know, everyone has a different personality. Everyone has some type of, you know, some people have a learning disability. Some people have children at home. Some people have older parents. Some people are just. They're just busy with their community. And so we want to. Their availability to us is so important. And I think we've already talked about that. But. And then the skill set, the skill level of people is. Is huge. So we want to grab those great people. And I think that we've always told people we don't. If you come to us and you don't have the experience, but you have a great attitude, then that's the type of people we want to hire. So if they're coming in and say that they can build the world, but they are, Their personality is just not a good fit. You know, it's probably not going to work out for us. You know, we really want good personality. Coachable, ready, willing to learn, willing to work a good work ethic. Sometimes you can't get a work ethic on an interview, though, so you learn. You kind of learn that as they progress. But. Yeah. So I think employees have definitely been the hardest challenge, and I think the hardest challenge over the past, like, four or five years, kind of since COVID But this. This past year was our easiest. Actually did get easier for us. But in the past, it's been. Employees have been the biggest challenge.

[A]

And is there anything that you could say, okay, so employees biggest challenge. Yes. And we've been talking about it for a couple minutes, but yeah, anything you would say has been like a lesson you've learned to apply, like maybe in the interview process or how you. How you like.

[B]

I. I do feel like Carrie spoke about attitude over skill level.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I feel if so, during COVID I think the changing of the guards was we had a lot of, like, people that were in the food industry come in. Computer. Computer people come in. And as long as they had a positive attitude, we can teach them anything. Right. So that's our biggest, like, we truly look at attitude over. Over skill level. It's. It's just a matter of taking time, going to events like this, sitting in class, getting people certified, investing in those employees. And quite honestly, when you invest in employees, they feel like they're wanted and they're. They're doing their job.

[A]

I mean, I can speak to that from personal experience. Like when I worked for Pascal Landscaping for 15 years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was one of the things that Steve and Matt did religiously was invest into our employees. We would go to show, like, let's take the whole company.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, we would go to expensive, like, you know, maybe an Aquascape Automonium event every year. Like, they spent tens of thousands of dollars to do those things for us. And, and sure, maybe some employees didn't really appreciate what that meant or what that was, but there's many that did.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I mean, the proof is in the pudding. I mean, there. Today there's 20 plus year employees of that company.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so they belong there. It's a career. It's not a, it's not a job. It's not a stepping stone job.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

It's a career. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And. And when you, when you, when your employees can tell that you view them as a. A valued like you, you. You care about their skills and their development, their certification. Like what you're saying. Yeah, like that, that. That means a lot.

[B]

Right. You know, it's not an easy industry to be in.

[A]

No.

[B]

Mother nature.

[A]

Many reasons to not be in the industry.

[B]

Exactly. Mother nature isn't always nice to us. So, yeah, we got to, we got to adapt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think. But it's a heck of a lot better than being indoors all day.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I love being outdoors.

[A]

You're talking to a guy that went outside.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Right. We don't spend enough time outside either.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I definitely like my, my days when I'm on the job.

[A]

The way I try to cope with it is as many windows as possible, as much light. Open the windows or whatever.

[C]

True.

[A]

And I did my own backyard a couple years ago post Covid, and it was like, I will often grab my laptop, gather, and just sit on the, on the, on the patio. Under that covered.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, yeah. It's beautiful.

[A]

Now if the kids get. If I'm on calls and the kids get out, they're riding their bikes, it doesn't work.

[B]

But people like that, though.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. What would you say is the best advice you've ever got?

[B]

So my father started the business, like I said, early in, in the 90s. And one of the things he always taught me was use a mirror, not a telescope. Use a mirror.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Not a telescope. So when you're looking at Fault. Yes. And when you gotta sometimes look in the mirror and realize it starts from the top down. And I feel it's not always the easiest thing. Right. It's very easy to look at somebody else and say, hey, you know, you're not doing this, you're not doing that. Or maybe I look in the mirror and be like, I didn't teach this guy the proper way in doing this. So it's on me. Hey, you know, Joe, let's go. I'll teach you how to do this properly, you know, and in that it's a reflection of their actions are a reflection of the company in which the leadership, the leadership of which they give, you know, it's. So that's what, you know. And when I was a young, you know, younger, my dad said that to me. I'm like, ah. He doesn't, you know, what's that supposed to mean? You know. But now I look back and I really understand how important it is.

[A]

That's really good. And I've also never heard that saying before.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I, I think for me personally, like, that's so good. And when I, like, kind of like, okay, what about. What does that mean to me? It's like, I know that principle and I want to abide by it. And I think almost to the point that I might overcorrect from time to time and then turn into tolerating poor performance. You know what I mean? And that's, that's also damaging.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, because you can overdo any of these, you know, little sayings or these little principles, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can overdo any of them and be like, well, mirror, it's me. I haven't trained them when really, you know what?

[C]

Right. You know, but when you have that process, you know, available to the company and say, okay, we did the training. Yeah, I did teach you. You've been taught to do that, and then you're underperforming then. Yeah, it's. It's definitely not holding up a mirror.

[B]

Well, you hold up a mirror and you say, hey, every day I tried.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah. And again. Yeah, you're right. Looking back in the mirror, did I do the thing that I should have done? You know, it's, it's, it's like walking on a railroad track, like trying to not overcorrect on any of these.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

But that's, that's really good. And it's also like a biblical principle, like cast out the. Was it cast out the beam in your own eye before you critique the moat and the piece of dirt in somebody else's, you know?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's, it's, it's human nature, though, to be super critical of everybody else and think I'm good, huh?

[B]

Right.

[C]

Absolutely. Yeah. How can we do things better? You know, I do think that, I think we think that a lot is, how can we do this better? How can we do that task better? How can I design that project better? How can we install a fence better? So you get stuck in routines and in certain ways of doing things, and I think you always have to be open to those new ideas. And I think sometimes that's back to that very word. Change.

[B]

Change. Yeah.

[A]

Tolerate changes. Change. Change is a thing that it's uncomfortable, you don't want it, you want to avoid it. But if you don't want to deal with the current problem you're dealing with, well, the only thing that's going to change that is change.

[B]

Change.

[A]

So choose which one you want. Do you want to deal with the change and the pain that comes with it, or you want to continue dealing with the exact same issue you've always had?

[B]

If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got. Right? Yeah, that's, that's sitting above my desk.

[C]

Uh huh.

[B]

Y.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

Sitting above my desk. That's good. Yeah, yeah. We try to. So we try to. We try to look at those little phrases and sayings and definitely they mean something. So we have. My father was big into saying those phrases, you know, like. And so we have a whole list of Sweeney Isms. Sweeney Isms, Yeah. It's so fun. It's great. And some are good, some are good, some are.

[C]

Some can't be repeated.

[B]

That's all part of learning. But yeah, yeah, it's really, it's, it's good. It's good.

[A]

What would you do? Like, how many years. Remind me again, how many years have you been in business? It's a business. It's almost as old as I am. And so when did you take over?

[B]

Took over, like two years ago. Was on paper. However, when Covid happened is when we started to implement some changes.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

My father's, you know, he kind of stepped away a little bit.

[C]

His birthday.

[B]

Yeah. Today's. Yeah. Happy birthday then.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So he. Yeah, so we started at that point, starting to change up a little bit of the family's business. Yeah, it's tricky. It's tricky, right? It's tough.

[A]

Yeah, it is. Yeah. Emotions get tied up and. Yeah, it's. Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So going back to when you started maybe taking on more responsibility and ownership and control, what is one thing that you wish you'd have done differently? If you go back to day one, what would that be?

[B]

I think putting systems in the right. And putting it. Putting systems in place. The right systems in place is crucial. Right. So when we first started not being able to make the quick. We. We first started. We did everything. Being a younger company, we did everything based on what everybody else was doing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So, for instance, pricing out brick patios by the square foot. And it was a system that was a very basic system because we ever. We wore every single hat. I'd be in the field eight hours a day, and then I'd change my shirt and run out and go see customers, and then I'd go home, do paperwork, and then I'd do estimate, you know, like it was. And then I'd start all over again the next day. And I was just a. Just in a hamster wheel. Just over and over and over, eight days a week. And my problem was, to be honest with you, was my systems, and I didn't have the proper systems in place. And if I could go back then and know what I know now, I think if you start off and you have the right systems in place and know what your true numbers are and what your systems. What your systems are costing you, that's when you make those changes.

[A]

You mean what your sister or lack

[B]

thereof or a lot thereof.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we look at things like, well, that's expensive. We're like, well, what's it cost me

[B]

to not have this system? It's suction cup machines. Right. Great. They didn't have them when I started, but like that. You have a suction cup machine. Yes. It's expensive upfront cost, but you're saving on a laborer. You don't. You don't. So down the road. And what's that labor, workman, scon plane. Like, there's a lot that goes into it. Right. Insurance 401.

[A]

And it's also more mechanized so that people People like the way we were working on the landscape crew installing ponds with big boulders without any machines. There is no way that we could have kept doing that for 20 years. No way. So also keeping people.

[B]

That's it. That's huge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So having the proper systems. Systems is key. And make sure they have the right equipment to keep those systems as functional as possible as well as making sure that the systems that you have in place. And I'll go back to the money systems with synced up. Don't price by the square foot price price by what that job is going to cost you. And in the end you might find out that your square foot price you are pricing yourself out of the market. You never know. You have to, you have to really look at. You don't know what it's truly costing you. So yeah, you got to make sure you have the proper system in place.

[A]

I think it's so key what your point you're making about like I, I kind of like tongue in cheek quote that joke that if I could give confidence to contractors in a pill it would be to make sure that they know their break even. Every job they set absolutely pulls away because that strips away the temptation to mess with it or.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Go by marketplace. It's like I don't care what market based is.

[C]

Right.

[A]

If Mark, you know, if market based is water is free then in an. Why in an airport can I charge $5 for it? You know it's like.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So it, it doesn't really matter.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What what matters is is it's a cost plus. At minimum it's cost plus. Like what's it cost to do the business, do the job and then your margin and sure. If you're able to do something very unique where you're maybe very artistic and have a brand and people want you. They're not shopping. Sure. The market, the market is the only thing that takes the same.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

But the reason people do, in my experience the reason people do square foot pricing is because it's easy, it's fast, it's easy.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And it's also, it will lie to you for so many reasons. And, and the, the good news though is I think this is something people don't quite connect the dots on or understand completely. Is like you can have the best of both worlds.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You can have it just as easy as quote square foot pricing with templates and production rates.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Just dragging your template, throwing your measurements done. You got your price done.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, it's, it's.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Templates is Unbelievable how quick we can do estimates.

[C]

Yes. Yeah. But you've also got your overhead all in there, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So like insurance changes. Yeah, that's the point.

[A]

Like. Yeah, so somebody in the office updates the insurance and the budget. Well, the estimator out there using the template and plugging in their square footages, they don't know like the break even shifted.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

The price is different than it would have been yesterday.

[C]

Right.

[A]

That's, that's the beauty of actually doing it the right way.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Based on your cost.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

And how could you have ever tried to do that before?

[B]

During the season.

[C]

During the season. There's no way to be able to change it or track it if you wanted to keep.

[A]

Okay, let's say that it technically is mathematically possible to get your square footage. Price will always be right on every job. But the amount of work and input and calculations and maintenance that that would take is far harder than just doing templates and production.

[B]

Correct.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. You got to look at where you got to spend your time and use, use, use your time wisely.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And family, Family is very important.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

So you gotta, you gotta sometimes spend a little bit more money wise and spend more family time together. That's most important.

[C]

So he's been able to coach. So our daughters have played softball for years. So. But yeah, so you've been coaching now for so many years. And I mean he would leave work at like 2:30, which was before that. It was so hard to do that. But really since, gosh, you've been doing that for maybe four, five years now. So he's been able to do that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So now I can work from anywhere and I can check on jobs and

[C]

we can go on vacation and you can still log in. And we were in Antigua.

[B]

We were in Antigua in November and I was on my computer doing estimates and sitting on the beach.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I couldn't do that before.

[C]

It wasn't bad.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

I mean, do you want to work on vacation? Not really. But if you have to, I mean, what better way?

[A]

Well, if the difference is I can't go at all because it's one thing, or I can go and check a little bit, you know.

[B]

Yeah, it's important.

[C]

And then the reason we have some great managers too, it allows us to be able to do that too.

[A]

Yeah, right. Well, to your point, you have three

[B]

other people that are doing it and you have the systems.

[A]

Yeah, systems is the only way you can even make pen and paper a system. We did for years, you know.

[C]

Oh, it has been the system.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But. But the effort it takes and it's not efficient at all. It's a little bit like saying, well, I'm going to dig this ditch with 40 people and shovels.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm going to dig this ditch with a machine. A machine.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And not. You have to start off somewhere. Right. You're not always going to be able to get that machine right away, but work yourself towards it. Yeah, no, you know, set a five year goal and go for it. So. And we're always, we're always doing that. We're always setting goals. We have a meeting tomorrow with our managers to set a five year plan.

[A]

Sweet.

[B]

So one three, five year plan. Yeah. So yeah, that's where we're at.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Well, Sean and Carrie, thank you.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

I just want to say thank you for, you know, putting your faith in trust us. I remember that conversation we had outside the doors at this show like four or five years ago. And you're like, is this really gonna do? We should. Is this really gonna work for us? And like, I remember that conversation. You guys took a leap of faith and. And now you're reaping the rewards.

[B]

It is definitely been a change. It's been a good change for us.

[C]

It has been. Yeah.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. We love the growth of the program. It's been awesome. Yeah. It's changed over the past four or five years and yeah, definitely has improved. And I love, I tell my employees this, that help question, you know, that little help tab. If you ever have a question, they're right there. And you guys respond like that.

[B]

Great support team.

[C]

It's been great. So we really love the program.

[B]

Love the program and what you've done as well.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In four to five years.

[C]

Really proud of you.

[B]

Thank you. It's been great. It's been great.

[A]

Thank you so much. And also the team, like, I know they take a lot of pride in like being on that support channel, so it feels good to feel that, get that recognition.

[C]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

Pass it back.

[C]

Absolutely. Well. And knowing everybody too, you know, when Fred pops up and you know, is messaging or Kyle, like, you know, and you feel like we've had a relationship now for four years, you know, they're part of our team. So I love that you feel that

[A]

way because I say that all the time. Like, look, we can't, like, we're here to. We're not here to like, get rid of you. We're here to partner with you. You Know what I'm saying? And support, you know. Yeah, like, whatever. We're not going to be successful if you're not successful.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So even if we have to get into like, kind of sideline conversation, we get ourselves into trouble sometimes trying to help in areas where we're not, like in Quickbooks or in Zapier or whatever. But like, the point is, is we're here to help you solve problems.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And if we can be helpful, we will be.

[C]

Yeah. Great. You are.

[A]

It's a partnership.

[B]

It's been great.

[C]

Yeah, it has been.

[A]

Appreciate it. Thanks for making time for this. I know you gotta go.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Where can people find you before we stop the recording?

[C]

BlueRibbon. Nh.com is our website. Blue ribbon companies for Instagram and Facebook. Blue ribbon company.

[A]

Okay, well, usually the search is pretty good.

[C]

Yeah. But yeah, if you find us on our. On the website. Yeah, thanks so much. Blue ribbon companies where it hooks at New Hampshire.

[A]

Okay, well, go, go DM these guys and find out just how you keep people and get people to do the things that. That you used to do. So.

[C]

Yeah, thanks so much.

[B]

All right. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[A]

You betcha. Hey, thanks for listening to the Cost of Doing Business show. If you need help with knowing your numbers or you're looking for a better automated system to run estimating and scheduling and job costing or more in your business, just hit me up. You can book a [e-mail] or DM me on Instagram inkedup, which is spelled S Y N K E D U P. See you on the next one.