Ep 98. I Almost Quit Landscaping After Years of Losing Money | Jason Nolt

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Cost of Doing Business

Ep 98. I Almost Quit Landscaping After Years of Losing Money | Jason Nolt

Host: Weston Zimmerman
Guest: Jason Nolt, Authentic Homescapes
Date: April 13, 2026

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Main Theme

This episode dives into the unglamorous, gritty realities of running a small landscaping business, focusing on Jason Nolt’s near-exit from the industry after years of financial struggle—and his eventual breakthrough into professional and financial stability. The conversation deconstructs the hidden traps and valuable lessons of job costing, business management, delegation, and the emotional ups and downs behind the highlight reel.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Authentic Homescapes: The Business Model & Signature Jobs

• Jason runs a small company specializing in artistic, custom outdoor living spaces and water features.
  “We tend to...portray ourselves as the artistic side of things a little more.” [00:55]
• Ideal clients allow creative freedom—designs often evolve on the fly.
  “Our perfect customer...lets us tweak things if we see a better way mid-project.” [00:55]
• Project range: typical jobs $40K–$60K, with the largest project to date over $1.5 million. [02:24]
• Description of the largest job: $1.5M+ project with extensive limestone, granite, complex upsells, and labor over a year and a half.
  “It took us a year and a half to complete...the largest sale for myself.” [03:54]

2. Lessons from Scaling up to Large Projects

• Contrary to the norm, the biggest job yielded an exceptionally high profit margin.
  “Our profit margin on that was way higher than our average. Way higher.” [04:30]
• Managed difficult client expectations and change orders by holding firm on pricing, even as project costs ballooned.
  “The design doubled in cost...but this client, money didn’t matter.” [05:51]
• Staffing: Most of the project completed with only 2.5 full-time workers, supplemented by subs.
  “Half of that project was done with two people and a half people.” [08:21]
• The project was a pivotal, company-changing opportunity after nearly eight years in business.
  “It was our eighth year in that we landed that project...life changing…” [10:28]

3. The Struggle Years: Losing Money, Debt, and Burnout

• Authentic Homescapes founded in 2016 after 13 years working for another employer.
• Initial years featured pricing mistakes and failed attempts to use an employer’s numbers:
  “My first year...Failure City. It was an eye opener. That year was an absolute loss.” [11:19]
• Hired a friend/employee too soon; company was unprepared for the higher overhead, leading to more losses and debt. Family stress compounded the situation.
• Came very close to quitting after four years, going so far as to shut down and work for the former silent partner.
  “At the end of that fourth year, I was done. Too many hats, not enough delegation…” [14:05]
• The year spent out of the business was a period of reflection and clarity.
• Restarted the company with business partner Conrad in 2022, focusing on delegation and clearly defined roles.
  “If someone comes in as a partner and helps take the roles away, I will go right back in.” [17:26]

4. Tangible Changes After the Restart

• Critical changes:
  • Delegation of clearly defined roles to avoid owner burnout.
  • Outsourced bookkeeping and day-to-day administrative tasks.
  • Investment in SynkedUp software for estimating and job costing—though not fully leveraged at first.
  • Adopted efficiency lessons learned from a stint in stamped concrete: prioritize action and productivity over “analysis paralysis.”
    “When it’s time to work, work...lay to the best of your, like max yourself out.” [19:29]
• Mindset shift around equipment investment: recommends minimalist approach when starting out to avoid crippling debt.
  “If I had to go back...minimalist on the equipment to keep my overhead low and build up from there.” [30:19]
• Now the business sticks to its strengths and systematizes non-core functions.
  “We got someone to handle all our [accounting] entries…that was huge.” [20:57]

5. Technology and Business Systems

• SynkedUp helped clarify real costs, estimator accuracy, and job costing, but the pain point is implementing software fully during chaotic growth. “I wish we would have been more diligent with that estimated versus actual…do the due diligence to learn it and punch it in.” [25:12]
• Regularly updating budgets and rates is critical for ongoing profitability.

6. Mindset, Boundaries, and Negotiation

• The most transformative lesson: the power of saying "no"—to unfit clients, to underpricing, and bad deals.
  “No, this customer is not the right one for you...and then be quiet and let them be the first ones to talk.” [28:13]
• Silence is powerful during sales—talk less, listen more. “The best, most reliable indicator on who was going to win the negotiation was who spoke the least.” [28:36]
• Advice for new business owners: focus on hiring for your weaknesses and delegate as fast as possible.

7. Reflecting on the Journey

• If he could do it again: start lean, delegate faster, buy necessary equipment as cash flow allows, and embrace technology and software from the beginning.
• Acknowledges survivor’s guilt and encourages others struggling:
  “Like, you’re not broken...there is hope. There is a path out and there’s survivors that are thriving to prove it.” [34:32]
• Cautionary tales: distractions (like inventing a dust collector for the industry) can sap vital time and money critical to core business survival.
  “Split focus is expensive. Not sure I’d do it again.” [35:59]

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Memorable Quotes

• On the pressure of big jobs:

  “Often contractors get a big job, underestimate all the logistics, go into the bigger scale and come out the other end less profitable.”
  —Weston Zimmerman [04:45]

• On survival:

  "We were in the trenches for a long time until we finally had a life changing project...that changed the face of the company.”
  —Jason Nolt [10:28]

• On burnout and shutdown:

  “At the end of that fourth year I was done. Too many hats, not enough delegation...We tabled everything. I put Authentic in the closet.”
  —Jason Nolt [14:05]

• On streamline and delegation:

  “We got someone to handle all our entries...That was huge. Because I wasted so much time. I am not tech savvy at all.”
  —Jason Nolt [20:57]

• On the ‘power of no’:

  “No, this customer is not the right one for you. Or no, I can’t do that. Or no, we’re not giving price breaks… and then be quiet and let them be the first ones to talk.”
  —Jason Nolt [28:13]

• On advice to new owners:

  “If I had to go back, I think I would go the route...minimalist on the equipment to keep my overhead low and build up from there. Get the software...and focus on what you’re good at.”
  —Jason Nolt [30:19]

• On hope:

  “It’s okay. Like, you’re not broken...there is hope. There is a path out and there’s survivors that are thriving to prove it.”
  —Weston Zimmerman [34:32]

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Notable Segments with Timestamps

• Jason’s business overview and design philosophy – [00:42]–[02:21]
• Breakdown of largest $1.5M+ project and its profit margin – [02:24]–[07:21]
• Years of losses and burnout—nearly shutting down – [11:08]–[15:18]
• Reboot strategy: Delegation, partnership, and clarity – [17:24]–[20:13]
• Operational changes: Lessons from stamped concrete, software adoption, and systems – [20:57]–[25:49]
• Advice on negotiation and business survival – [27:54]–[30:19]
• Hindsight: Starting lean, focus, and the danger of distractions – [30:19]–[36:02]
• Final thoughts on hope and industry struggles – [34:32]–[36:41]

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Connect with Jason

• Instagram: @authentichomescapes
• Facebook: Search “Authentic Homescapes” (not actively posting, but open to messages)

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Closing Remark

Jason’s story is a candid, empowering journey through tough lessons about business, delegation, and self-renewal. For any business owner struggling in the trenches, this episode is a powerful reminder that perseverance, humility, and systems can turn the tide. “The best things that come are those that you fight for.” [35:31]

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the cost of doing business podcasts. Things on Instagram are pretty shiny, but here we're going to get to the reality behind the scenes on the hard journey of growing a business so we can all learn from each other. I'm your host, Weston Zimmerman, co founder of Synced Up. Been in the green industry my whole life. Let's get into it. Good afternoon. I am here at the Northeast Hardscape Expo with Jason, one of our longtime customers. Ran into him here in the aisles of the show. And of course, I have my podcasting equipment with me. So let's go. Let's have a conversation. Thanks for doing this, Jason.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So for everyone listening, just give a kind of an overview of who you are, your business, like, what kind of work you do, like what your bread and butter kind of job is that you're really good at, really built for.

[B]

We are a small company that designs and builds outdoor living spaces, water features included. With that, we tend to, I think, portray ourselves as the artistic side of things a little more. So our perfect customer detail is someone who we can draw up a print and we have a basis for it, but if something strikes us to change it up on the fly, sure to tweak it. They allow us to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Without much trouble. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I believe, like, the designing process isn't really something that can't ever be messed with. It's more of, like the discovery process to arrive at the conclusion of what I really wanted to begin with. And sometimes it's the design process that strikes, you know, like, oh, we should. Or sometimes it's not even until you're building and you're walking through the construction site, you're like, oh, we should, you know. So we always kind of joke to Tesla Landscaping that's strictly conceptual.

[B]

There's a lot of truth in that.

[A]

We would intentionally not put measurements on our designs because sometimes you just need to flow things a little differently once you're there on site.

[B]

You know, that's a good. I'll have to keep that in mind.

[A]

So what kind of, like, price range is this kind of average job that you're talking about? Are we talking 20k, 200k somewhere in the middle?

[B]

Average isn't what it used to be.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I would say average is maybe 40 to 60. Yeah, we do less than that. We have. Our largest project to date was over. Over 1.5.

[A]

Wow. Millions. Impressive.

[B]

For us. It was impressive. It was the largest sale for myself. Yeah, we were working as subs, so it wasn't actually our direct so your

[A]

work was 1.54 and you were over that. You build the GC 1.5. So it wasn't a 1.5 project you did a little bit of work on?

[B]

We did. There was over a quarter million in upsells.

[A]

Unbelievable.

[B]

Additional. What was it? A pool or like. It was. It was 4,000 square feet of full depth limestone, linear on retaining walls, on seat walls, on. Yeah, that's pretty much that. There was, I think there was 4,000 square foot enforcement tiles on pedestals. There was large excavations, portions of it as well. There was a 2100 square foot granite cobble driveway on Trass. Wow. That granite cobble driveway was already there. And we peeled the granite off of that, washed them, cleaned them, set them aside, re palletized and then reinstalled.

[A]

Unbelievable.

[B]

So, yeah, pretty intense. It took us a year and a half to complete, but yeah, that's amazing.

[A]

Wow. So I think Tassie's biggest job was like, I don't know exactly. It was over a million, but it wasn't 1.5. I know that. So congrats.

[B]

One one of them all the time. It takes a lot of brain capacity.

[A]

Now here's my question. Did you make as much money on that job as you would have? Maybe it was tnm. I don't know. But would you have, would you have made it as you would have on many smaller jobs?

[B]

No, we went.

[A]

You didn't.

[B]

Our, our profit margin on that was way higher than our average. Way higher.

[A]

On the 1.5. It was. Wow, that's really amazing.

[B]

Oh man. Like, why was that?

[A]

Because, like, often contractors get a big job, underestimate all the logistics, go into the bigger scale and come out the other end less profitable.

[B]

So when we initially bid the project two years prior to actually doing the work, it was a little over a half a million in work. And they fired their landscape designer, brought in another fellow and the design like doubled in cost. Just like, just like that. And so when we re quote, we resend it over and yeah, the revisions, there was some, there was some pushback for the cost difference, but the revisions, I mean it doubled everything completely. And so portraying that and working, portraying that to the people we were stubbing to and they in turn had to portray that going up the ladder was a bit of a process. Yeah, but this client money didn't matter. Obviously that everyone has a limit. Yeah, there were, there were a lot of no limits on this project.

[A]

More. It was like the thing that they cared about was the outcome. Not really, like, well, whatever that would cost to make that outcome happen. Do that.

[B]

And I mean there was obviously with every change order or upsell, there was the conversation of what is the best for what we want out of it. And that varied in prices from, I mean, to us, it felt like price didn't matter at that point. Yeah, it's just like we want it this way. Build it. Yeah, well, this is what it cost, right?

[A]

Yeah. So I mean, I just want to say for the sake of anybody listening, like, kudos to you for negotiate or not negotiating, but like administering that process, that sales process in that way. Because like, I think that that's commendable because a lot of people, like, let's say I'm used to doing $100,000 jobs and I get a million dollar job and there. And then it's like, well that's ridiculous. It can't possibly cost that much. Surely you can do it for 900. And it's a huge number. So it makes it feel like, well, surely we'll still make some money. So sure. We break our own rules on negotiating on price. So I think it's commendable that you did not do that because when the numbers get so big, it feels like that's so much money. Surely I'll be okay. That's why people don't make as much money on the big jobs.

[B]

There were definitely portions of that that went on where I would say, okay, so we break, say it's the limestone veneer and it's cracked in a section that's a two by three where you have to grind out the mortar, pull it off, redo, redo, relay it up. There were small portions of that where I probably didn't charge what I could have, but I didn't do it because we were recouping that in other portions of it that was just, yeah, astronomical. I mean, change orders, changed our schedule for the customers that were waiting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so right.

[A]

There's a cost to that in order

[B]

to recoup some of the headache that goes with that. Yeah, we just put numbers to stop and yeah, went through.

[A]

Yeah, that's like, again, very commendable. How big is your team? How many people do you have total?

[B]

So half of that project was done with two people and a half people. We had, we had a, we had a high schooler that helped us over summer from like end of May to just prior to school starting in August. So the year, I have to think back through 25, 24. But for, for the first half of that project, we started in March Started in March of 24 and we worked a two man crew, two and a half man crew up to October of that year. Now we did bring in subs. There's a local maintenance mason that I work with that we brought in to do some of the veneer work, veneer stone work on the guest house addition and some retaining walls. But it was just two of us full time for, for a long portion of it. The high schooler definitely contributed a lot as well. In the summer months.

[A]

Did you finish it in October or did it, it bled over, bled over

[B]

into June of 25 really.

[A]

So about a year and a half. Yeah. So that, I mean that makes sense. Like a million bucks for a two man crew. Highly efficient like that, that, that, that checks out.

[B]

Like I, I often wondered, you know there's industry averages of what one man can produce in a year and some of them numbers are pretty low and it's easy to fall back to that number. But for that year where it was just two and a half of us, it, I mean the subs helped as well. So subs contributed to that. But we were in that 400, 450 per man for.

[A]

Which is very good.

[B]

Very, very, very numbers that we don't figure by and we don't see typically. But yeah, for this project at work.

[A]

Well that's a tremendous blessing that the biggest project also helped you in that way because like yeah, I'm sure you know the oodles of stories out there of contractors that land the biggest job of their life and it ends up really hurting them financially.

[B]

One thing, one thing that I will say as well with that is, and it'll maybe go back to some of the questions that I was prepared for. It was the breakthrough moment for authentic homescapes really for that project with just some of the history of where we started as a company. It was our eighth year in that we landed that project. So we were in the trenches for a long time until we finally had a life changing project. Yeah. That changed the face of the company.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So speaking of like the thinking you were doing before we started recording, like what, what would you say has been the biggest challenge you've overcome in your journey?

[B]

I don't know that I've fully overcome yet.

[A]

We're in the middle of it.

[B]

We're still in there. But the challenge of small business ownership startup. We started in 2016. I was. Previous to that I had worked for an employer for a combination of 13 years. My first year I was working off of his numbers Failure City. It was an eye opener. That year was an absolute loss. This next year we did a little better, but it was still like adjusting the numbers. We did not have software at that point. We had equipment to make us efficient. But efficiency only works so far. If your numbers are not there to back it up, you are spinning. The third year was another fiasco. The fourth year was another one. There was some things that played into that. Kevin had come on with us. An employee had come on four friend of mine had come to me and said I need a job. He was another single owner operator. His passion was water features. I said, hey, this is a great growth opportunity. A little soon in business in my gut feel. But I was like, you know what? Maybe he'll bring something in. Well, we were not prepared at all for that overhead for the, for the wages. We were not billed as a company at all. And them next two years, three and four were just fiasco. And so it came to a point where I had to leave him go because it was, it was taking us all down words, accumulating a bunch of debt and it, it just was not good work work. The work funnel was not producing. And there were family stressors as well. We are an adoptive family. There's a whole realm of stuff in there that factors in. And so it was just very chaotic. And at the end of that fourth year I was done. Too many hats, not enough delegation going out at that point point in time. The business was originally set up with a silent part. I had a silent partner, but I took care of everything. He, he gave business insight and a little of this and that helped with startup but was quiet otherwise. He didn't and wasn't involved much. And so all the hats of office and I mean my wife was a secretary before so that contributed good things. She had an understanding of QuickBooks that I did not have. But still it was, it was riotous to say the least. And then at the, at the start of the fifth year, which was the original buyout plan from my silent partner, I was in debt. I didn't have capital, I didn't have anything. I was done. And my silent partner said, hey, I'll give you a job. We do stamped concrete. You can come in and do our hardscape walls. Maybe you can do some of your pavers from customers that are calling in or whatever and we can, we can work this out and go forward. So we tabled everything. I said that's a way out. That's a way out of the rut. We tabled everything. I put Authentic in the closet. I put everything in the closet, sold him my trailer. I kept my truck and some of my small equipment, like the tampers and hand tools and stuff that weren't valuable at all. And a mini, and a mini skid steer that I had.

[A]

What year was this?

[B]

This was five years after 1621.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

So we had come through. Covid was rough. 21 looked bleak. Like there was, it was the warm spurt of February and there were new calls, like zero. And I was like, I can't hang with this. So, yeah, that's, that's when it looked better over there. And so Conrad and I worked for him for a year and at the end of that year I was like, stamp concrete is not close enough to our style of artistic work. I want back out. So Conrad, my employer, had allowed us to do paver projects. We did a big one in the beginning of the year and we had a big one at the end of the year. That was just kind of a light bulb moment. Maybe being out of the rut for so long, being out of the rut for one year just opened the eyes to, you know what? If we can go back to doing what we like to do, we'll all be happier. And Conrad, he's my brother in law, but he's, he was. Been with me since the very beginning of time. He had actually helped on some of the projects when I worked for my former employer. He was like, what's holding us back from going back and doing what we like to do, Skip this concrete working our butts off and for little return. And I said, well, number one is we are, we are giving the book work to people who know what they're doing in QuickBooks. We are, we are giving that to someone. Someone needs to help on the, on the set up. The format of like handle the foreman duties in the field. Like all the stuff that the owner doesn't have to have to.

[A]

Clear roles.

[B]

Yeah, clear roles. I said, if like someone comes in as a partner and helps take the roles away, I will go right back in. It was, I don't think we were finished with that project. When I told my employer, you know what, we're done. We're not, we're not cut out to be rigorous like this. We are going to go back in, pull authentic out of the closet and go back in and haven't looked back. 2022, we went back in. Conrad bought in as partner and, and things have been good. Kind of a rough story, but for, for the guys that are out There that are just bogging in the mud. There is light. You just have to fight like crazy to get through it.

[A]

Yeah. What was the thing that was different when you came. When you pulled authentic back out of the closet and went back in. What, what, what was different that time? I get the clear roles thing. Was it just that or was it more?

[B]

No, there was more. There was stuff that we definitely learned from the stamped concrete industry that we were able to implement in the paver industry and, and simple things like hogging out dirt. Like instead of getting precision equipment that you're cutting out exactly six inches of dirt or nine inches of dirt, go in and hog it out. You're way more efficient in machines. Machines digging fast. Just efficiencies. And from dig out to stone in to laying pavers. So it's the stamp concrete. We dug it out, hogged it out. Blue stone in there. Threw forms up and concreted in a day. Some big jobs and. And just that mindset of when it's time to work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Work. Yeah. When it's time to lay pavers and it's production time. Lay to the best of your, like max yourself out. And we became very efficient.

[A]

So analysis paralysis was like, oh, let's get exactly six inches out of here.

[B]

Like so much time.

[A]

Sure. You saved on the hauling maybe, but the time was what was killing you. Time.

[B]

Is that so?

[A]

There's a, there's a, there's a law of diminishing returns on those kinds of things. You know what I'm saying? Like now you may figure out how to. In another. In another application that precision equipment may have made it. The ROI would have been worth it. You know, it just all depends what it is you're doing.

[B]

But for us small company, we weren't investing in that type of equipment that could run that equipment. I mean, we weren't using new stuff with Trimble set up. So.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We couldn't afford it. Number one.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Number two, it didn't. It still doesn't really fit our model right now. And so just getting efficient at the things you're good at. It changed huge.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good. Really. Like there isn't a copy paste formula to fix it or to fix whatever challenge you're facing. And I appreciate the depth of your story because it helps. It helps kind of map maybe like what I might be feeling in my own journey to. To like. Okay. You know, like those examples of analysis paralysis on what is quote, a good thing but costing you, you know, so very, very Very insightful.

[B]

On the. On the office end, we got someone to handle all our entries. He is someone who sets up systems. All our receipts get picture scanned and submitted. He takes care of entering everything into QuickBooks. I don't have to go scrolling through all. Okay, which. Which one does this go in? He does. He handles all of that. We take care of the. The billing and the paying our vendors. But everything else is entered live time all the time.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

That was huge. Because I wasted so much time. I am not tech savvy at all. And so just wasting hours in front of the computer when I should have been number one getting sleep either for my family or for my business for production in the field.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Coupled with. We bought Synced up in 2022 as well that first year did not use it to its full capacity. But even implementing parts of that in setting up quotes, I had just the little things here and there and everywhere just make things run much smoother.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's rarely a silver bullet. There usually is multiple little things that. That build up to making the difference that's needed. What did your journey look like over the four years you've been in with Synced up now, like what was the first thing you implemented and then the next.

[B]

We've been pretty stagnant with that. So we pulled in the price list. We had our numbers where they needed to be with our equipment.

[A]

Like your hourly rate, you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So okay, so you built a budget,

[B]

got your other rate budget.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Hourly rate. Found out where our numbers had to be. Yeah. And then just basically used for the estimation aspect of things to the customer. Used it for the estimation and the sending the estimates over and down payments and the basic stuff like that.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We not sure. I guess about the time that we started the large project we started implementing the actual products used versus estimated there. Again, not being tech savvy, it was a struggle for me. Conrad did better on that end. He did some. We did not utilize the software good enough for that project to give accurate results at the end. There were some factors that played into that is the billing. The billing system from the GC to us was. Was very complicated. And we billed for the work that was done the month before. And then they ran it through. They withheld 10% off of every billing. So my invoice had my estimate. My invoice, all that had to reflect all that different and I got lost in that. And it was. It was a real complicated mess. So we didn't have accurate Numbers punched in and tracking, because they're 10% withheld, messed with. It was fiasco. I wish we would have been more diligent with that estimated versus actual because it was. There were so many portions of that project that we don't typically do, but in a pinch, we'd have the ability. Take the veneer stone, for instance. We're not masons, but we can do it. We didn't track that.

[A]

Good enough to have a good production rate.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, our production rate we have. But like, what did you do on

[A]

that job, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, there's. There's some guesstimation stuff there.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And so. And we didn't set up proper templates. So one thing, if you are getting software, do the due diligence to learn it and punch it in because it will just benefit. Even if it feels too busy now, like down the road, you don't need it.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I'm too busy. Is a. It's a slippery slope because, well, so what, you think you're not going to be too busy three months from now or six months from now? You're always going to be, quote, too busy. Like, change behavior is the only thing that's going to make any difference on the too busy problem. So it's like a rip off the band Aid. Just got to do it.

[B]

And one of your guys actually reached out to me this week and said, hey, I saw you were in the budgeting tool. Well, my budget needs redone, but my week was super busy this week and last week. And so I said, just let me get through this week. Yeah, that slippery slope.

[A]

Yeah, it's a slippery. You know, there's something to be said for, you know, busy days or even busy weeks, but when it stretches into busy months, busy quarters, stuff ends up not getting done, you know, so you have to create that margin. Which comes back to the thing you were saying about delegation roles. Like, those are really, really good nuggets for anybody listening to it.

[B]

It makes the biggest difference. Like. Like I used to have to take care of maintaining the trucks, putting the oil changes on schedule, putting. Putting the inspections on schedule. So. And we have midsize trucks, so they get done every half year. Delegate that over to him, someone else takes care of that.

[A]

And systems and processes like that are. I know this is cliche, I say it again and again and again, but systems and processes like that will set you free from the entrepreneurial prison or the too busy thing, you know, and if you never rip off the band aid and just make it happen get the bookkeeper, get the clear roles, get the delegation, make sure that somebody else's problem to get the truck serviced. Like, it's just. You're on doom loop. You're repeating the same year over and over and over again.

[B]

It's painful every time.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It makes me think of a quote not original with me. I heard it somewhere else. Was like learning is the equivalent of new info, new information and, and change behavior. New information without change behavior is worthless. It doesn't do anything. So change behavior is the catalyst, which it comes back to the same thing we're talking about. What would you, what, what would you say is the best advice you've been got given throughout this whole experience?

[B]

Learning the power of. No, there's a.

[A]

Somebody just sent me a book about that. I forgot what the title is.

[B]

I think it was actually my younger brother that imparted the wisdom. Okay, Jake, maybe it's time to learn the power of no.

[A]

Okay, I'm listening.

[B]

No, this customer is not the right one for you. Or no, I can't do that. Or no, we're not giving price breaks. No, we're not. You name it. No, and then be quiet and let them be the first ones to talk.

[A]

I read a thing one time about negotiation and it was saying they did a study on all, like all various ways negotiation scenarios and the, the. There's many indicators, but the best, most reliable indicator on who was going to win the negotiation was who spoke the least. So I have a problem.

[B]

When it gets quiet, I start talking.

[A]

It's, it's a human, it's human. We all do it. So it's, it's. Yeah. Like I was talking to another contractor at another event a couple weeks ago and he was talking about the negotiation of a sales process. Right. You know, so maybe somebody wants a tremendous job and it's 400 grand or whatever. And they're like, man, that's a ton of money. I can never, you know, that's never going to work. And he said his advice to the room that he was talking to was just to say, yeah, it's a big investment, and then shut up. Because first of all, you're using, you're injecting the word investment. And then second. Quiet, be quiet, you know, because the next person to speak is going to lose.

[B]

I'm not attained. Me neither. I, I'm right there with you on

[A]

it being really, really hard. If you could go back to day one, all the way back there in 2016, like all the, the valleys that you walked through. And the difficulties that you survived. What is. What would you say is a thing that you wish you would have done differently back then?

[B]

So looking back, a lot of this goes back to what I already said with hiring the correct people to take care of the things that you are not good at. Delegation. I also think I would change my mindset of when you're starting in necessary equipment. I think I would look at very differently. So in 16 when I started, so my silent partner was also the bank for my equipment. And so I had considered myself very efficient in my systems when I worked for my previous employer. And so. And there we had all the equipment we needed. We had the mini skid steer, we had the skid steer, we had the mini excavator, the truck and the trailer and all the little tools. And in my mind that was what it was necessary to do efficient business. What did that do? That we had an investment of 110,000 that I had to make payments on. Yes, we were very efficient. But was it necessary? If I had to go back, I think I would go the route. I mean hindsight is 2020 obviously, but I would go back to truck trailer maybe. Maybe the trailer. But just minimalist on the equipment to keep my overhead low and. And build up from there. Get the software that figures out where you need to be at with the minimal equipment, budgeting for the future, equipment delegating the things you're not good at. There's a ton of people out there who will take care of your book work. And whether it's an accountant or someone that just does things well that you are not good at and focus on what you're good at and go that route. Some days I look at at my investment and say, you know, if. If that would have been 50000 we would have been debt free and well. Yeah, who knows? Yeah. Yeah. But the path would have been way different. Yeah, I like to think it would be way different.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's that debt snowball. It can be. It can. It will work against you or for you. You know, once that things that once you're pushing a rock uphill, man like it is a very difficult hole to climb back out in.

[B]

One thing that I. That I will. When we. The year that I shut it down and put it in the closet, I was able to sell all of my equipment and break out dead even. Really. So I was.

[A]

So that's good. You had assets. You were not in the whole assets wise, just cash wise.

[B]

Just. Just cash wise. Yeah. Have anything to show for which is.

[A]

Which is the key distinction.

[B]

I had my truck, I had my Mini S, my mini skid steer and my tampers and some of that small stuff I bought. We bought my trailer back, Bought a skid steer. Bought a skid steer, and then halfway through the year, bought the mini escalator because we had the money for it. I mean, another contributor, that first year, we. We got in with a local business around home. It was a shady maple smorgasbord. And we built their first huge non. I call it a non typical water feature with. With all of Aquascape's urns.

[A]

And I've seen it. It's very nice.

[B]

We built that had good margins. Yeah. It was 2022 was a good year. And it was good. It was a good year. That's awesome. Going back in again.

[A]

Yeah. Rebuilding.

[B]

It looked kind of. Kind of big again for me because it wasn't that long ago that it was pretty rough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But 2023 rolled around and we landed that huge job and it. Yeah.

[A]

Off to the races.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's really. There's a lot of deep learning there for people listening. And I think this isn't true for everybody, but it's common for people to think like, oh, something's wrong about me. Why am I dealing with this? Why is it so hard? What's broken? And it's true there are things that are broken or need to be fixed. Yes. But the point I'm making is that most people are fighting these kinds of battles or have these kinds of battle scars from stories like this, you know, and if anything, I like to try to get these stories out and share them because it's like, it's. Oh, it's okay. Like, it's. You're not broken. And there is hope. There is a path out and there's survivors that are thriving to prove it.

[B]

You know, just the concept of, like, you, really, nothing comes easy. The best things that come are those that you fight for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Another contributor in this whole story is in 17, when OSHA implemented the dust silica law. Kind of went on a journey there with building a dust collector for our industry and thinking that it has a place. And that took a lot of time and energy and money away from places that it should have been going to

[A]

split focus is expensive.

[B]

Yeah. Not sure I'd do it again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As another hindsight maneuver.

[A]

Are you active on social media? Can people find you or DM you anywhere?

[B]

We are on Instagram. We are on Facebook. I don't have any posts to date.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

It's something that we are wanting and

[A]

is the is the handle authentic homescapes? Is that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Well, thanks a lot for making time for this. Really appreciate it and being willing to share your story.

[B]

A little out of my comfort zone.

[A]

Yeah, I know. I know it is for most people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But congratulations on not just making it, but actually thriving in it.

[B]

You know we love what we do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're actually the guy that Kevin looked up to for so long in the water feature industry and followed your footsteps. He planted the seed in our minds. We do a lot a fair amount of water features. So it goes back to you.

[A]

Well, when a rising tide lifts all ships. So let's be rising tides for the people around us. Thank you, Jason. Appreciate it. Hey, thanks for listening to the Cost of Doing Business show. If you need help with knowing your numbers or you're looking for a better automated system to run estimating and scheduling and job costing or more in your business, just hit me up. You can book a [e-mail] or DM me on Instagram yncedup, which is spelled S Y N K E D U p. See you on the next one.