Manish Sharma (2:59)

Crazy Shi. Well, I'm happy that you and your family are safe, but, you know, we cannot start this podcast without talking about fur babies. And I have to ask, how are the three little mischief makers are doing?

Sri Rajagopalan (3:14)

It's funny you call them mischief makers because, you know, our record label is called Mischief Records and that's why I left corporate America now, given what's going on with my younger daughter. But you know that I'm a proud parent of Zayn, Zora, Zumi, the Triple Z's. And then they have more Instagram followers than I do. That's how life is going. Manish. How about Simba?

Manish Sharma (3:33)

Simba is doing good. I think to your point, he's finally starting to accept that cat rules Internet and social media. So he's okay with that, that he's just enjoying some time with me.

Sri Rajagopalan (3:44)

That explains the Instagram followers, what you just said.

Manish Sharma (3:48)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you know, let's introduce our guest today. So, folks, I'm really excited and thrilled to introduce Greg Welch to you today. I think many of you already know him. He is a seasoned professional leader with over 25 years of leadership advising, executive search experience. Now based in Miami, Greg is a co member of Spencer Stewart's consumer and private equity practice, specializing in recruiting top CEOs, CMOs and Board of directors. So we are expecting a lot of amazing insights from Greg today on how he thinks about it. He also co authored a book called Good for Business the Rise of the Conscious Corporation and the creator of Spencer Stewart's prestigious C OMA Summit. So I think this is going to be a very interesting episode because in this episode we will not only get insights from Greg's incredible leadership journey, but also we'll request him to provide his valuable insights on what he looks when he's recruiting top talent for leadership roles. And there should be, you know, it's going to be very fascinating conversation for everyone who's interested in in either going for leadership job or executive hiring. And things like that. So I think it's going to be a very fun episode. Welcome, Greg.

Greg Welch (5:12)

Great to be with you both.

Sri Rajagopalan (5:13)

Greg, what a treat. We can actually have you on the Fearless podcast here. The industry will cherish probably every word you say in terms of learning what truly builds leadership and a career of leadership. So let me kick it off first by asking you about your own career, Greg. You've had an incredible career, obviously helping some of the largest market cap brands in the world. But all, all kinds of brands in the world recruit top leaders. If you looked at your own career, Greg, what's a defining moment that helped shape your leadership style?

Greg Welch (5:46)

You know, good question. Well, great to be with you both today. So I spent the first like, like you two, I spent the first part of my career in packaged goods. I was a Nestle, Colgate, Nabisco guy. And one day I got the crazy phone call from a former boss that said, have you ever thought about the search industry? And. And my immediate reaction was actually I had. So it was a natural transition. I got to go to work for a man that I've had great respect for and loved honestly, and made the move with him. What changed for me, though? I went from being a marketer and or sales leader running a very large team to all of a sudden having a front row seat at Spencer Stewart where it really changed the way I think about leadership. You know, I used to have mentors like you two did in corporations and thought that's kind of where we go and where I'm headed. And all of a sudden I began to come here and work with super talented folks at Spencer Stewart and watching, you know, tangible results of who put the ball in the hoop, who scored the goal, who, who drove shareholder return, who drove happy employees that delivered great record sales growth. And so there was a fundamental shift for me in that regard that I just began to think differently. And at the same time, on a personal level, as you talk about your kids, I had a bit of a tragedy many years ago. Some of you may know. I lost my first wife in a car accident, was left with a six month old son, and had that like, oh, my moment. And that changed forever the way I think about life and work and what's important. And I have found myself over the years becoming more attracted to those leaders who understand the importance of being vulnerable and putting a hug on employees at the right moment and being human. So that changes the way I look at people as well. For sure.

Manish Sharma (7:35)

Absolutely. Craig, I think. Well said. Being human, in my opinion, is A very critical quality to be a leader today, especially in the world where we are facing mental wellness issues. I think emotional questions is bigger than IQ in my opinion. So very well said. Now I'd like to pivot to your thoughts on you have spent years evaluating and recruiting leaders. From your perspective, what qualities or traits do you see consistently in people who go and become great leaders of the industry?

Greg Welch (8:09)

You know, probably like you two, when I started my career, I looked up to those charismatic leaders who were excellent communicators, who could fire up the troops. And that's what I thought great leadership was all about. And over the years, I've learned to almost close my eyes and say, let me think about the quality of their thought, their commentary, the depth. And quite frankly, this has also helped as I look through a DE&I perspective lens to say somebody may look and feel differently than the way I communicate or the way I show up or what I historically thought a great executive was. So that's been a positive as well. And I think now about things, about great results. Do people follow them? You know, in this day and age? And you all may track as you know, Edelman has a trust barometer out and like you, it's a punch to my gut to see how people around the world don't seem to trust leaders. And although it's better for companies than it is for NGOs and governments and media as an example, but the fact of the matter is it's only like 70% of employees trust their CEO. What a travesty if in fact that's true. Interestingly, there's a gap there. So 90% of the executive leadership believes they're CEO, but only something like 70 in the employee base, the associates believe them. So I've worked hard with my colleagues to figure out how do we find genuine, authentic, honest, ethical leaders who do what they say they're going to do. You don't. They don't have to think about what the truth is. They answer, answer accordingly. And those are the kinds of things that I'm thinking about now when we're placing executives, people that can make a difference, that bring the right skills, but also do it in a way that's keeping with the the needs of the broader company.

Sri Rajagopalan (10:06)

Craig, Speaking of leaders, I mean, that's a troublesome number that only 70% of employees at an aggregate really trust their CEO. I mean, wow, you know, 70 seems large, but that also means there's a 30% void, which means, Greg, that puts a pressure on you that every time you put Someone in that role that you, that you get it right on, like, day one. But speaking of that very leadership mentality in your own life and your own journey, who do you think was your most influential mentor that convinced you that you, too, are an awesome leader, which you clearly have been by actually putting, by building, I would say, large market cap companies, market equity, by facing the right people. Who's that unique person and what lesson did they impart that influences you to the day?

Greg Welch (10:58)

Yeah, good. Good question. You know, so, so many people, right, have changed me. I. I'm. I feel blessed every day to work at Spencer Stewart with so many talented people. But when I think back about my foundational days, and this may humor you both. My father was a senior executive at the Upjohn company that became Pfizer. And what he taught me to do is to say no. And I remember him taking hard decisions that were unpopular and would tell people no. And I remember almost cringing as a young boy watching the way he would boldly tell people, this is going to be popular, but here's what I'm going to do. And there's good sides of that and bad sides of that, but I actually am taking the good out of that. And I would like to think that my colleagues would tell you I'm unafraid to have the candid, honest conversation, to give candidates genuine feedback in the spirit of helping them to push back on a client when I think they're going down a wrong path and to be unafraid to say no. So that certainly was kind of foundationally, my kids would tell you I'm unafraid to say no. So that's different on a personal level. But there are so many leaders that impacted the way I am. I think of a guy named Jim Kilts that some of you may know, a terrific executive who ran Gillette. And when he came in as my boss's boss's boss, if you will, at Nabisco, I'll never forget the way he started on day one. He said, I'm here to talk about the three Ds. This was his speech. D, like dog. And we're all immediately thinking, what are the words that begin with D? And he said, I'm delighted to be here. So the first word was great praise about this amazing portfolio of brands and the company and how excited we were, puffing our chests up and saying, this guy's delighted to be our new CEO. And then he went into the second D, which was, I'm disappointed in the results. And then he walked us through a very thoughtful, comprehensive, accurate assessment of how our brands and performance have stacked up versus competition over time. And I must say, it wasn't very good, even though we were proud of the company at the time. So then we're immediately thinking, what's his last D? And he said, I'm determined to get it right. And at that point, you could have heard a pin drop with that very large organization. This is day one, his opening speech. And I thought, this is a guy with courage, conviction. He's focused. He's going to scare the daylights out of some people. But many of us thought, come on, we're going to do this. We're going to climb that mountain. And he's a leader I would follow. And I learned a lot from Jim over the years. And the other one, on a softer level, was also a Nabisco person who later became CEO of Campbell's. Now Campbell's not Campbell's Soup anymore. They just changed their name. Is a guy named Doug Conant. And Doug was a leader that led both with his head and his heart. He would write letters to people. At one point, I thought I was the only one getting these heartfelt letters. I later found he did this frequently with all of his team. Hey, here's a book, Greg, that I thought you might enjoy. I thought of you. Nice job in that presentation. I've got a couple of suggestions of what could be done better later, and maybe you do. I keep a lot of the letters I've gotten over the years from people, and Doug Conant taught me a lot about the value and importance of building a trusted relationship with a leader who has your back and your best interest in mind. And that personal touch was something that I'll never forget, and I'm thankful to Doug for.

Manish Sharma (14:24)

Awesome, Greg. Amazing insight. I love the 3D. I think that's a great way of engaging with your new employees. I think that's a great example. I'd love to now talk about your leadership philosophy. Greg. You have such an amazing career. So what's your leadership philosophy? And also, since you have worked with so many great leaders, what's the common thread of the philosophies that you have seen or admired from in other leaders?

Greg Welch (14:53)

You know, although I've had a bunch of leadership roles inside of the firm, I now think of myself more as a servant to my clients. So I'm providing. And so my style would be transactional leadership on behalf of my clients. What my team, I think, would tell you to is that I'm highly competitive. I am Doggedly determined to deliver great, thorough results to get to the bottom of the truth. And my hope is that we deliver an extraordinary customer experience in all we do. Most of my work now is on behalf of given clients. And I'm really blessed that given where I am in my career, I get to work on clients that I love, appreciate, want to be part of their success. But it's very transactional. So if you imagine the typical search, you may know it takes between maybe 12 and 20 weeks. We go to the market, we understand what the mandate is, we have to push and pull with the client on what we think they need. We then go into the market with a laser focus on how do we uncover the very best leaders, how do we both assess them in the right way, and I'm happy to talk about that later, how do we couple that with referencing from trusted sources that we know that will tell me and my team the true of what's really going to go and you know, we take a moment to celebrate. But my team knows I'm very high energy, very competitive and driven to deliver for our clients. So my leadership of what I exude with my own team is really about, okay, this is what. Not perfection, because we certainly, we may look for that, but we don't deliver on it. But, but we get after it and very, very intense what we do.

Sri Rajagopalan (16:40)

As you would expect, Greg, actually, let's not wait. Let's just go get that answer right away. Right. So as we said earlier in the show, you know, you've got the pressure or the, I would say pressure on one side, but I would also say the privilege on the other side of actually growing the equity of brands. That's the reality, whether brands admit it or not. Because the person you place is usually responsible for that. Either the stock price growth, getting back to a P ratio that matters, or maybe even driving a certain margin maybe from 30 to 31%. Of course I made that number up, but whatever it is, in that sort of scenario, Greg, I think the industry would love to hear from you when you're assessing potential leaders for executive roles, what are two or three behaviors that you're looking for in a conversation that indicate to you that this person could be great indeed and could actually get that equity done.

Greg Welch (17:33)

You know, it's been kind of my firm for 65 years working, trying to solve that magical question. There's a great piece that a couple of my colleagues, maybe you can put it in the show notes later. A couple of my colleagues just published in Harvard Business Review last week called the Leadership Odyssey. And our mission with that study was to figure out how do you evaluate and help our clients evaluate predictors of success down the road for CEOs? And interestingly, and maybe you thought of this or maybe you haven't, the fact is we historically have looked at people and said, who's been successful building teams, launching new products, as you said, growing market share, growing profitability, impacting the stock price. And we tend to look at them and say, hey, this person's a winner. She's done great work throughout. We're going to promote her into the chair. And what we often find is what we need from you as a CEO may be different than what we needed from you as a head of customer service or a head of operations or a chief marketing officer. So we're trying to figure out what are those triggers and how do we help our clients get to a great conclusion around the kinds of things that we're looking for? I'm happy to talk about some of the things that I'm looking for. Is it useful to give you a sense of, like when I sit down and interview somebody you know?

Sri Rajagopalan (18:54)

You bet, Craig, the industry would love to hear that from you. And by the way, I have the copy right here. When to read it later today.

Greg Welch (19:01)

You're very, very, very good. It's a great piece. And, you know, this is a kind of while I'm blessed to work at a firm where I've got so many smart people around me that I get to call partners. So when I sit down to do an interview, it's really separated into a couple of different areas. And there's no yes, we do have a special sauce. On one hand, if you're a, you know, if I'm helping one of the world's largest retailers find a chief marketing officer, you can imagine that I'm benchmarking you against competencies that I know that the very best marketers have. I'm benchmarking you based on what I know about your references in the market, what you got done, how you went about it. All that said, though, the things that I'm really trying to glean from that meeting evolve around a couple of things. It would be business intelligence, it would be learning intelligence, and then probably social intelligence. Let me. I'm happy to double click on a couple. So on the business intelligence piece, part of what I'm trying to find is how is it that you get yourself to a spot where you find intelligent solutions? How is it that you might see things that others around you would have Missed. You know, are you able to describe situations that demonstrates those that you don't necessarily agree with what their point of view is? Can you identify problems or symptoms inside of a company that may be part of a bigger underlying issue? So these business issues are the kinds of things that we're looking for. And when I think back about the ones that are, you know, when I think of Mary Dillon at Foot Locker or Michelle Buck at Hershey, you know, some of the people I really admire, they just have a figure this business intelligence that they're able to figure out from a learning intelligence standpoint. Typically what I'm trying to find is does this leader go to others to seek advice on topics they maybe don't know? Remember a moment ago I talked about kind of the leaders that I respected. I always thought those men and women always had all the answers. Probably not. What I think they were probably doing was going to others that were smarter than them on areas. And as an example, in the marketing world today, the technology around what great marketers need to do in the Martech and what's going on, they can't possibly be experts at that. I need them to be a great leader first and then figure out how do I know how to ask the right questions. Do these great leaders, as it relates to learning intelligence, do they know how to adjust even though they may had a plan? You know, this is like Mike Tyson said, everything's good until you get punched in the face. You got to think about how do you bob and weave and do something a little bit different. Do these great leaders have the confidence in their own ability to master what they're going to need to be a great CEO? So these are the kinds of things we're looking at. And on the social intelligence, this is the one that I think is a fun one and I love and I referenced it a moment ago. But I often am intrigued when there's a debate, when you run into a disagreement inside, am I able to describe your point of view in detail if it differs from mine? Sometimes even great leaders have a tendency to just tune out. And I've got a point of view and I'm going to try to convince you of it. I find the very best leaders are the ones that can do a deep dive and make sure they really understand and empathize with the party, perhaps in agreement on, you know, how is it that you came to that decision? Can I empathize with it even if I'm disagreeing? And can I pull on the strings of trust and appropriate respect, such that over time we can end in a good spot and all parties feel good about it. And that's a, that's one that's soft and a little squishy. We don't always like to talk about it, but I bet when you two think about the very best leaders you worked with, some of them just kind of seem to have a magic touch and to figure out how to bring others along. And the day of like slamming in your ideas and selling it across the organization, those days are gone. I think we need more empathetic leaders now. You know what I tend to find out personally? Are people naturally curious? Do they naturally build coalitions and collaborate across the organization? Do I have people in my finance department that want to see my team and I be successful in the role, whatever the mission is. And, and there's something about the very best leaders that I just sit on the sideline and watch that, that I appreciate. I also, as you would expect and I know appreciate, you know, do they tend to naturally build diverse teams? And I don't just mean ethnically diversity, I mean the people that bring different points of view, you know, we, we think diverse teams have better results. And, and I can look in the rearview mirror to say, you know, did, did that person build a team? Do they have a track record of building teams that maybe supplement what they bring to the party? And so those are the kinds of things that I tend to look for when I'm sitting down to interview with somebody.

Manish Sharma (24:04)

Greg, I love your insight that great leaders should have three things. Business intelligence, learning intelligence, and social intelligence. I think you're spot on. And to your point, as a student of marketing, I think learning intelligence is critical to your point because marketing is changing so fast that no one can be expert. But as long as you're a good leader and have humility to learn, you can learn. And I think your last point on diversity of opinion. Absolutely. I could not agree more. I think the biggest diversity is diversity of opinion. If you can bring different perspective in a decision making, you will not go wrong. I think. Great insights. Thank you so much. But like, even if some leaders have all those three things, there's no path to success without challenges. I think all of us would agree on that. So could you share some of your insights on that? That when you faced challenge in your path to leadership and success, how did you manage it? How did you overcome? What was your approach? At the same time, again, I'm keep going to go with the dual lens as you work with so many leaders and you place Them. What are the best practices that you have seen great leaders doing?

Greg Welch (25:16)

Yeah, I, you know, I think it starts, we spend a lot of time, I call it service after the sale, if you will, after a transaction where we play. I just placed a president of a very large multinational packaged goods company and I feel like on one hand, my work is just beginning. So now the mission is, how do I help in this case, him get off to a good start. And you know, everybody talks about early on in the first hundred days to think about going on a listening tour. And the spirit of that is right. But the fact of the matter is it takes time to build enduring, trusted relationships with people. And my hope for him and for other leaders that I place is that they really spend time to genuinely get to know on a personal level as appropriate with their colleagues. Because when things get tough, you know, this is when you got to pull on, on relationships and favors. And I need to know that you trust me, we're together, we're aligned on what the overall mission is. And I'm not trying to sell you something. So I often find, and I do this with people where I sit down in an interview and say, hey, walk me through the last month. In fact, take me through last week. What did your week look like? And typically people will say, oh, it was a crazy week. Well, they all are. You know, take me through it. And I often find that the very best leaders, even if they're functional leaders, if they're marketers or heads of supply chain, they have this view where they're working across the organization. Most of my great placement friends tend to have breakfast once a week with the cfo, and I'm intrigued by that. To say, listen, you've got marketing to do. What's the CFO have to do with this? And as you both know, having that trusted relationship where I think there's been discord over time between marketing as expense versus the cfo, that's all about the guardrails and trust. I can't think of a more important relationship. I often am seeing now marketers spending a lot of time with hr. And in this day and age where you've got consumers with bullhorns that can blast into social media, there's never been a time where the employment brand is more important. You know, we just talked about the trust barometer. The great marketers I know are spending time with their HR leader to not only think about the development plans for their people, but how the brand shows up, how we communicate that, how do we minimize or mitigate Any communication that rogue consumers can say, it's a tricky time in these jobs and you've got to have a coalition of people around the organization. And I also love it. As you would expect, I do a lot in the restaurant world and you know, where often it's like, hey, I was in the markets on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. I was in stores, I was with consumers. I was, you know, throwing french fries in the fryer. I was following up on consumer feedback. I was talking to the call center about things. I was in the market. And, you know, this just builds this coalition of trust. And it's really, really important early on to make sure that you're in the market. There was a famous CEO we put into a very large retailer in the US and on the first, I think it was for three months, he did a daily blog where he was out in the stores learning what's going on. And oftentimes his commentary was critical. Like, hey, I was in store 408 this week and we got the bundle for the back to school product. This happened to be an apparel retailer that they were putting out. And the directions with these boxes on the end cap, it didn't fit. And, you know, the planogram wasn't going to be right and the communication wasn't right. And, you know, I can only imagine that a couple people were hugely embarrassed by that feedback, whoever was responsible for that. But you know what? That built this trust and man, this guy's got it. You know, I can tell you Brian Nicol, who we placed at Chipotle as you know, just went to Starbucks. He's a tremendous leader. I haven't talked to Brian in the last couple weeks, but I can assure you he's gonna get the ear of those baristas and spend time in stores and talk to consumers. And, you know, while he's getting smart about their business, he's also demonstrating that he's got two ears and one mouth and he's gonna use them in that ratio with employees, which will build support across the organization, I have no doubt.

Sri Rajagopalan (29:35)

Wow, Greg, you brought back memories of my previous role at General Mills North America, Captain of sales, which is, I'm a big advocate that if you're in the CPG industry, you gave the example here of a coffee company, but it doesn't matter what industry you're in, you need to be close enough as a senior executive to the point of sale. In the coffee company, it's the barista and it's the store. In the CPG industry, it's the store where the sales actually happen. Today we live in an omnichannel retail world. The store is changing every single day. I cannot stress the importance of if you're a senior executive, you determine the frequency how often. But I, because I ran sales, it would be weekly for me. But the important but hindsight is 20 20. One of the things that I just learned from you is what I should have done is probably done a blog of some sort, a recap of some sort at a frequency that would have been powerful for the entire organization. There were some other nuggets you kind of dropped in there right, right in the center that brought back memories. HR and finance were two of them. And I have no problems naming a couple people here who made my life easy at General Mills. One was my CFO of sales, Lance. We would talk twice a week, maybe every day. And the other was Heather Banks, the head of HR for sales. We literally talked every day about people because people capital is one of the most important things on earth. So thank you for those nuggets. Greg, I personally could not agree more with you. But for the industry, I can now visualize people are whipping out a notepad and saying, I'm going to rewind all the way back to the top and I'm going to write down everything Greg is saying so I can be ready to actually chat with him at some point.

Greg Welch (31:12)

Let me start. Let me, let me throw in one quick thought. And this may scare half of your audience, but just a quick thought. So the traditional, hey, we're getting to the offer. I say, hey, Manish, send over your references. Like that would be the old school of what you reference. Guess who we call. So yes, of course, I might look at your direct boss and your peers and people on your team. I'm calling heads of hr. I'm calling the head of sales. I'm calling the cfo. And it's a really good test. It may make you a little uncomfortable to think about if you were to call my CFO today and say, what kind of an executive was Greg? You know, you hope it's going to be the reaction you want. But I, but I do think this isn't about getting quality references, but it is smart. These are things my mother taught me about treating everybody with respect and having solid relationships because people are surprised to hear that I'm calling CFOs to say, what kind of CMO was this person? So, so you do need to think about it. Not to freak you out, but rather to say, do you have broad based support do customers speak well of you? And, you know, trust me, these decisions we're making on behalf of our important clients are too, too important. We are going deep, you know, before I'll even pick up the phone and call you. We've got people on our team that collect at least what we call third party source comments on every executive before I sit down with somebody. So we have a pretty good perspective. And we're not so interested in who's on your reference list. We're calling people because in our database, we know who you worked with, who you would have impact, you know, interacted with, et cetera. So it's a good, it's a good thought for all of us just to say, go hug a hug your CFO once in a while, Greg.

Sri Rajagopalan (32:59)

I don't know if it scares people, but I know they're writing this down now. There's a notepad sitting somewhere in front of a ton of people right now with a pen and it's kept. Or they're using AI in today's world to really harness these insights. So speaking of that very call the cfo, get to understand people around you that you've influenced or have been influenced by. One of the roles of a leader is to nurture emerging leaders and get prepared for the tomorrow. Especially when those leaders are tasked with finding someone who fits both the culture and the leadership needs of a company, which you've identified several times. Right. So how do you actually test that in a person if they have that skill set? To surround themselves, be open to learning, not let ego block the way, you.

Greg Welch (33:41)

Know, I tend to. Sounds funny, but the analogy, I feel like I drive my car looking in the rearview mirror. So when I'm sitting down, down with an executive to interview them, I'm naturally curious. And I love humans. I love human behavior and motivations. But I also am looking for a track record of something that I think repeats itself. And I love nothing more than when you say, hey, how was your time at General mills? Or at PepsiCo? Who'd you work with? And that you proudly say, you know, I've got three people now that are now division presidents. I've got four people that I worked with that have gone on to be CEO, you know, and I'm looking for, did you succeed in a competitive environment? Did you develop and train younger people? You know, I often you would be humored by this. But when I call people about, hey, you know, I want to talk to you about a really interesting job. Although disappointed, there's nothing that strikes me better when somebody says, you know what, that sounds like a really interesting role. But you know what, I'm committed here. My boss has got my back. He or she is developing in me, investing in me. I feel like I've got a pretty well articulated path forward. I like my future. And although I'm disappointed that I was unsuccessful in converting them, if you will, to be a candidate for my given search, I'm thinking, who is that boss? Who is that person that made that employee feel that way? And sadly that's the rare exception. And I think when we all roll out of bed in the morning, you with an earthquake, one of our thoughts ought to be today, what am I going to do to further the way my team, my direct reports think about me, the way I authentically and genuinely care about them as humans, the way I'm committed to their success. And I, and, and the great leaders I know are the ones that continually reinforce it. It's hard, it's exhausting. The great ones do it and I think it's a good wake up call for all of us just to say if you were to go around your, your core team and say how committed is Greg to their success and is he helping you? Is he being candid? You know, we all can get better at that for sure, but the best leaders I know are the ones that do that really well.

Manish Sharma (36:02)

Great insights, Greg. Once again, I think let me pivot to the future of leadership. So as you sit in your chair and talk to different leaders, talk to top talent across the industry, I think audience would love to understand what's your perspective on the future of leadership. Especially as the workplace is evolving and getting disrupted daily by macro forces like technology, economy and the changing dynamics of talent development as well. So love to hear your insights on that.

Greg Welch (36:46)

You know, things are, you know, if I take the marketing function as an example, you know, I don't think finance has dramatically changed the core principles of finance finance over the years. Marketing is changing, technology is changing rapidly. You can't be an expert at all things in what I call modern marketing or performance marketing today. So you need to have great people around you. What I don't think we can tolerate anymore is lack of trust. You know, we talked about the barometer. So integrity, authenticity and perhaps vulnerability is right at the top of what I, I'm looking for. And I actually think our clients are looking for too. And you know, and interestingly we're finding more and more introverted CEOs that are incredible CEOs and they may not look and feel like the charismatic CEO of yesterday that I talked about earlier. But we're looking for people that are authentic, that are hardworking, you know, as you would expect when we do our deep dive assessments and when we do the leadership Odyssey tests, intellect matters. So IQ really, really does matter. And now we have data proof to go back and look at, seeing how somebody tested with us and then to see how they've performed over time. And that's what's helped form our thinking about how to select leaders. So we're looking at people that are, that are smart, that are hard working, that are caring and can bring others along with them. I don't think there's ever been a time that's been more important to be a coalition builder. You know, we're better together. And so clearly I'm looking for people that have people that just seem to light up the room even if they're an introvert. People seek them out for advice and of course we're looking in the rearview mirror on how were their results. You know, I can ill afford to bring forward people whose results weren't great, great and, and it's winning is really hard. Right. You know, you can have industry headwinds category headwinds, unexpected competitive decisions and actions. You can have pandemics and, and although somebody can get a hall pass in a given situation, we are in fact watching, we're measuring and we're looking for people that have continually been successful in challenging situations.

Sri Rajagopalan (39:06)

Wow, Greg. So you just talked about the pandemic. One can get a hall pass when the climate changes. The current business environment for CPG and retail is a volume challenge one because of all the inflation. So things are changing by the day. Things are dynamic. This whole omnichannel thing has settled in in the last four years pretty hard. Not everybody's got that skill set. So I'd ask you that question, Greg, since you are placing again folks that impact Wall street equity at the end of the day with their actions. Even with all your experience of knowing people, understanding people, being able to read them, how do you personally develop as a leader to stay abreast of these dynamic times? What drives your personal growth?

Greg Welch (39:49)

Good question. I'm naturally curious and I'm a student of psychology. Although I found myself as a sales and marketer route up. I've had great fun in my career to be able to watch and fine tune my craft. I've got the good fortune to work with a bunch of people that can help me do that. But I do have a ringside seat for the Very best leaders on the planet. They become friends, they become peers, they become colleagues. And they don't all turn out well. Right? Not everyone is a happy, happy ending. From. I've seen many really, really smart, great executives get fired because the board didn't. They didn't do quite what the board wanted. So over time, you know, my mother taught me early on, you know, always tell the truth so you don't have to remember what you said. I am a truth teller. I guess I'm at a point in my career where I get to work with great clients. The ones I want to work with, they will get candid reaction from me. I do spend, and you can imagine I've collected. I feel incredibly blessed that my candidate pool, my client pool, these are also my friends and I've grown up with them over time. And these are trusted relationships. And when I call you and say, listen, I've been thinking about your career where you are, we have an opportunity that I think you should consider. I'd like to think that people that know me, have trusted me over the years will take a moment and pause to think about might this make sense? And you know, we're, we're in a people business. You know, some of my proudest days are the times that I get somebody that had no interest in this particular role but trusted me, decided to take a look and literally, we've changed careers. I mean, again, I keep letters, I've got letters from people whose, whose lives my team and I have changed forever. The wealth that they have, their kids wealth, their grandkids, wealth to get them to look at something. And I, you know, and when I look at shareholder return and the impact that we can have on companies when we get it right. Right. That's super satisfying. And so someday I hope to sit on a rocking chair to think about all the great people we've put in these top jobs proudly. And you know, I love what I do, so I'm really blessed in that regard.

Manish Sharma (42:10)

You know, Greg, we can clearly see it, feel it, though we are remote, but I can feel the energy from your words. I think surely I can watch that you love what you do and what an amazing podcast is so far. Greg, I think we need to bring you back again and go see more deeper in this. For sure. I think it's really insightful and I'm sure the listeners gonna love it. But I'm just gonna pick your point on sitting in that rocking chair and thinking about it. Greg, if you think about legacy, what's the legacy you like to leave behind for the industry, for your family, as an amazing human being, as a great leader. And also answer this question from the perspective of all the great leaders that you work with, what kind of legacy they have left or planning to leave? Just share some more insights.

Greg Welch (42:59)

Yeah, you know, clearly the legacy that many of the great leaders, I call it kind of, I think of the ripple effect. You know, there are people, I talked about a couple of names early on of people who over the course of their career have hired, trained, developed, had tough words, tough feedback and helped grow executives that are now doing, you know, I think, I think of the PepsiCo network and I think of all the amazing people that came out of there. First it was in HR and now in general managers. I think of Procter and Gamble House. What an amazing academy that they trained so many great leaders over time. And I know, you know, I've had the good fortune to get to know many of these executives and I think they get great pride in looking at those that they've trained and developed. And as I've gotten older on the back half of my career, I too, both with the people that have worked for me, with me and my placements, you know, I get great satisfaction in that. And, you know, as a parent, I've got four children now, happily married again. And in fact, my son who was in that tragic car accident, he and his wife just had a baby girl a couple months ago. These are the kinds, and they named it after my first wife, by the way. So those are the kinds of things that you say, hey, let's not forget what's important. Are you a appropriate role model? Do they mimic some of the things, you know, they're watching and listening, these kids and, you know, like you all super proud of the young people my kids have grown up to be. And, you know, and I mean, that's what it's all about at the end. They're not going to put on my tombstone how many hours I worked. Right. So I'm trying to figure out, how do you do that? Nice balance. And I feel really blessed to do what I do.

Manish Sharma (44:45)

Great, great, great insight. Last, last question for you. What's the one advice you like to give it to future leaders, depending on.

Greg Welch (44:55)

Where you are in your career? I early on established my own personal board of directors. Didn't pay well. It wasn't super formal, but I had a handful of people that I said, hey, do you mind if I check in with you once in a while? I'll buy you a bad lunch to give me feedback on how I'm doing, how you might approach the situation, what feedback you might give me. And I really do want the truth from you. So if you don't have a group of trusted advisors and this can be everybody from your church to a professor to a colleague to a former boss to a old CEO that you happen to know, I think having that group that's got your best interest in mind is really wise. And the painful part of this is if you hear the same bit of feedback more than once, you probably need to act on it. If you're not gonna act on it or modify your behavior, don't go through the waste of time, don't waste your parents time. And sometimes we get also stubborn minded that we're good. No, if people are giving you feedback, when you ask for feedback, you need to act on it. And the very best leaders I know do that. Hopefully I gave you guys what you were looking for today.

Manish Sharma (46:06)

No Greg, I think could not agree more. And the whole concept of board of director, one of my mentor gave the same advice to me last year and that's a great advice because I always looked up to one coach, one mentor at a time. But I think the board of directors is a great concept because you can learn different dimensions of leadership and as a human being as well. So. Well Greg, thank you so much for joining us today. I think both SRI and I, we are blessed to have today guests like you and hearing from you. Great insights and by the way love our Kalamazoo connections Greg. So hope when you're back in town love to catch up with you over lunch. Maybe you know I'll buy and I'll make you part of my word of direct money.

Sri Rajagopalan (46:50)

Just make sure it's not a bad lunch. It's a good lunch.

Greg Welch (46:54)

All right. It's great to see you both. Thanks for the work you're doing and I look forward to continuing the conversation.

Sri Rajagopalan (47:00)

That was a wrap of this special episode hosted directly from my other company Think Blue. Along with my partner Manish Sharma, we had a very special episode focused on none other than executive recruiting for the C suite all the way from boards the minds of what's required. What are characteristics looked for by none other than Greg Welch but also a reminder to audience you can find all of our content by simply going to a Browser and typing cpguys.com as the URL. If you think you or your company has thought leadership to contribute to a community discussion, drop us an email@contactpguys.com and maybe you can join us on the podcast. Don't forget to drop us a rating@cpguys.com in the navigation bar up top. To all our followers on thinking I can't thank you enough for the clicks, likes dms, joining us on the podcast, meeting us at conference, and to all our sponsors. Without you, the show doesn't exist. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And thank you to Manish Sharma, my co host, for doing this special episode with me.

Sri Rajagopalan (48:04)

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