Building Brand Connections to Consumers With Kimberly-Clark’s Stacie Medley and Epsilon’s Meggie Giancola

Summary

Podcast Summary: The CPG Guys – Building Brand Connections to Consumers With Kimberly-Clark’s Stacie Medley and Epsilon’s Maggie Giancola

Release Date: November 23, 2024

In this insightful episode of The CPG Guys, hosts Peter V.S. Bond and Sri Rajagopalan delve deep into the intricacies of building meaningful brand connections with consumers in today's omnichannel, digitally-driven landscape. Featuring industry leaders Stacie Medley from Kimberly-Clark and Maggie Giancola from Epsilon, the conversation spans leadership philosophies, strategic partnerships, the evolution of retail media, personalization, and emerging trends like artificial intelligence (AI). This comprehensive summary captures the essence of their discussion, enriched with notable quotes and structured to provide clear insights for listeners seeking to enhance their understanding of consumer engagement in the Consumer Packaged Goods (CPG) and Fast-Moving Consumer Goods (FMCG) sectors.

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1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with a brief introduction by host Peter V.S. Bond, who highlights his excitement about upcoming industry events and the robust schedule ahead. However, the main focus swiftly shifts to welcoming the esteemed guests, Maggie Giancola of Epsilon and Stacie Medley of Kimberly-Clark.

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2. Career Journeys: Maggie Giancola and Stacie Medley

Maggie Giancola shares her unconventional career path, transitioning from aspiring Broadway star to a seasoned professional in ad tech and martech. Her theatrical background, she explains, has significantly influenced her approach to connecting with audiences and fostering collaborations:

Maggie Giancola [07:56]: "I loved connecting with audiences, collaborating with counterparts in my shows, and eliciting emotions and responses from the audience. So much of that has translated directly into my professional life."

Contrastingly, Stacie Medley recounts her determined journey into advertising, overcoming initial setbacks to secure her dream role at Kimberly-Clark. Her persistence and adaptability underscore her success in the CPG industry:

Stacie Medley [11:32]: "I knew I wanted to be in advertising. Even though my first media class was daunting, I seized the opportunity when it presented itself and have never looked back."

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3. Leadership Philosophies

Both Maggie and Stacie articulate their distinct yet complementary leadership styles, emphasizing the importance of humanity, inclusivity, and authenticity.

Maggie Giancola emphasizes the human element in leadership, advocating for meaningful inclusivity and a commitment to individual successes:

Maggie Giancola [22:08]: "Leadership is about reprioritizing the humans we interact with, understanding their strengths, and what motivates them to unlock both individual and collective magic."

Stacie Medley focuses on authenticity, transparency, and humility. She highlights the value of surrounding oneself with knowledgeable individuals and letting the team's work speak louder than her own:

Stacie Medley [23:53]: "Being open to the perspectives of those around me and letting my team's work speak for itself has been crucial in my leadership journey."

Their discussion underscores the shift from traditional, hierarchical leadership models to more collaborative and empathetic approaches, especially in the wake of challenges like the COVID-19 pandemic.

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4. Epsilon-Kimberly-Clark Partnership

The synergy between Epsilon and Kimberly-Clark is a focal point of the conversation. Maggie details Epsilon's role in bridging martech and adtech to provide CPGs with a unified, consumer-centric platform:

Maggie Giancola [09:56]: "Epsilon bridges the gap between martech and adtech, providing CPGs like Kimberly-Clark a seamless way to understand, engage, and activate their consumers through our comprehensive Identity Spine."

Stacie elaborates on how this partnership enhances Kimberly-Clark's media investments and consumer connections across various channels:

Stacie Medley [27:13]: "Our relationship with Epsilon allows us to cut through the clutter and get things done effectively because we're both invested in each other's success."

Their collaboration exemplifies how strategic partnerships can drive mutual growth and better serve the end consumer by leveraging combined strengths and insights.

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5. Retail Media Evolution and Best Practices

The episode delves into the evolving landscape of retail media, with both guests providing valuable perspectives on its current state and future trajectory.

Stacie Medley discusses the complexities and fascination within the retail media space, emphasizing the importance of putting people first:

Stacie Medley [32:08]: "Retail media is making the advertising ecosystem incredibly interesting. Our work focuses on designing experiences that prioritize the consumer, ensuring our strategies resonate on a human level."

Maggie Giancola introduces the concept of "orbit planning" versus traditional funnel planning, advocating for a more holistic, consumer-centric approach:

Maggie Giancola [36:15]: "We've shifted from funnel planning to orbit planning, which is about meeting the consumer where they are in their purchase cycle and respecting their unique shopping journey."

This shift signifies a move towards more integrated and agile strategies that accommodate the fragmented and dynamic nature of modern consumer behavior.

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6. Personalization and Consumer-Centric Approaches

Personalization emerges as a critical theme, with both Maggie and Stacie highlighting its significance in building meaningful consumer relationships.

Stacie Medley articulates the importance of understanding and empathizing with consumers to enhance their experiences:

Stacie Medley [47:13]: "We need to understand what motivates people and put ourselves in their shoes. This empathy ensures that our products and messages truly resonate and add value to their lives."

Maggie Giancola expands on this by linking personalization to leadership and collaboration:

Maggie Giancola [52:36]: "Embracing that we are all humans first gives us a common ground, which is the catalyst for connection and collaboration. Personalization allows us to respect and respond to each consumer's unique needs and preferences."

Together, they underscore that effective personalization is not merely about data-driven targeting but about genuinely valuing and understanding the human behind the consumer profile.

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7. Future Trends: AI and Personalized Marketing

Looking ahead, both guests identify emerging trends that are shaping the future of the CPG and FMCG industries.

Maggie Giancola highlights the transformative potential of AI in enhancing both business operations and human relationships:

Maggie Giancola [54:40]: "AI allows us to access information faster and use it to strengthen our partnerships and strategic innovations. It's pivotal in helping us be more agile in this dynamic ecosystem."

Stacie Medley points to the changing media consumption habits of younger generations and the rise of social commerce:

Stacie Medley [58:13]: "Today's youth consume media differently, influenced by creators and influencers rather than traditional scheduled TV. Social commerce is evolving, allowing consumers to shop seamlessly within social platforms, which requires us to rethink our engagement strategies."

Their insights suggest that leveraging AI and embracing new commerce models are essential for brands to stay relevant and effectively engage with the next generation of consumers.

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8. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a reflective summary from Sri Rajagopalan, encapsulating the key takeaways from the discussion. Emphasizing the importance of human-centric leadership, strategic partnerships, and adaptive strategies in retail media, the hosts and guests leave listeners with actionable insights to enhance their consumer engagement efforts.

Sri Rajagopalan concludes:

"Successful outcomes are driven by relationships. Trust and mutual respect between business partners unlock the best solutions for everyone involved. Embracing a consumer-centric approach, as Maggie and Stacy have articulated, ensures that brands not only survive but thrive in this rapidly evolving landscape."

The episode serves as a valuable resource for professionals in the CPG and FMCG sectors, offering a blend of strategic guidance, personal leadership philosophies, and forward-thinking trends that collectively contribute to building enduring brand connections with consumers.

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Notable Quotes:

• Stacie Medley [11:32]: "I knew I wanted to be in advertising. Even though my first media class was daunting, I seized the opportunity when it presented itself and have never looked back."

• Maggie Giancola [22:08]: "Leadership is about reprioritizing the humans we interact with, understanding their strengths, and what motivates them to unlock both individual and collective magic."

• Stacie Medley [32:08]: "Retail media is making the advertising ecosystem incredibly interesting. Our work focuses on designing experiences that prioritize the consumer, ensuring our strategies resonate on a human level."

• Maggie Giancola [36:15]: "We've shifted from funnel planning to orbit planning, which is about meeting the consumer where they are in their purchase cycle and respecting their unique shopping journey."

• Stacie Medley [47:13]: "We need to understand what motivates people and put ourselves in their shoes. This empathy ensures that our products and messages truly resonate and add value to their lives."

• Maggie Giancola [54:40]: "AI allows us to access information faster and use it to strengthen our partnerships and strategic innovations. It's pivotal in helping us be more agile in this dynamic ecosystem."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Human-Centric Leadership: Emphasizing empathy, inclusivity, and authenticity in leadership fosters stronger teams and better business outcomes.

2. Strategic Partnerships: Collaborative relationships between brands and service providers like Epsilon enhance consumer understanding and brand activation.

3. Retail Media Evolution: Transitioning from traditional funnel planning to orbit planning allows brands to engage consumers more effectively across fragmented channels.

4. Personalization: Tailoring experiences based on deep consumer insights leads to more meaningful and lasting brand connections.

5. Embracing Technology: Leveraging AI and adapting to new commerce models are essential for staying competitive and relevant in a digitally-driven market.

6. Continuous Learning and Adaptation: Staying attuned to changing consumer behaviors and preferences enables brands to innovate and meet evolving market demands.

This episode of The CPG Guys offers a comprehensive exploration of the strategies and mindsets needed to excel in the modern CPG and FMCG landscape, making it a must-listen for industry professionals aiming to deepen their understanding of consumer engagement and brand loyalty.

Transcript

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Hey, it's pvsb with the CPG guys. Sri and I are going to be in Las Vegas, Nevada January 6th through the 9th for the 2025 CES conference. Monday evening we'll be hosting an invite only party at the Aria. On Wednesday morning we'll be emceeing a Breakfast briefing on 2025 retail media investments that's sponsored by CVS Media Exchange. That's over at the Park MGM Tuesday appearing over at the OMG Commerce Experience at the Cosmopolitan. And we'll be seen mostly around the area space. Expect to see us going into a lot of the area sky suites for individual meetings. We'll even be recording some content there. If you see us, stop by, say hello, take a selfie, whatever you want. We love speaking with people. We look forward to seeing you in January. Happy holidays everyone.

[Maggie Giancola]

Hi, I'm Maggie Giancola with Epsilon and I'm joined by Stacy Medley from Kimberly Clark. And you're listening to the CPG Guys Podcast.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. Your host Sri Rajagopalan and Peter Vs Bond explore how brands and retail retailers engage consumers in an increasingly digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG Guys.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Hello and welcome to this episode of the CPG Guys. I'm of course Sree, your co founder and co host and also co founder and partner of Think Blue, your key to unlocking your profitability potential. As builders, connectors and amplifiers, we shape the future of commerce to drive your growth. Please do listen to my older daughter Rhea Raj's music at www.rhearaj.com and my younger daughter Laura. Raj is a member of the Geffen Records Universal music group Catsey and they've just announced the tour on the Jingle Ball series in Dallas and Boston in December. And of course I'll be there. Touch, the hit single is now at 135 million plays on Spotify, winning them the Apple Award for which will be headed to Tokyo in December. Joining me today is Peter V. Espan, of course, my BFF and Dodgers lover. You can see we've got our baseball gear on. Getting ready for 20, the 25th season. 102 days for pitches and catches to report. That's what we live for. You all know this is a baseball podcast with a little. Nah, just kidding. Peter, when he's not co hosting the podcast is the partnership acceleration lead at Flywheel, a division of Omnicom that helps enterprise brands improve their SEO and SEM. Growing the e commerce business. Peter, we got a ton of events this holiday season. How you doing man, you ready for all the flights, the travel? We're going down to Chile in December. We got a lot going on.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Sri. I'm going to get into some very touchy territory right now. I'm going to break tradition. I'm going to talk elections right now. Notably Freddie Freeman being elected the MVP of the World Series. How great was that?

[Peter Vs Bond]

You know, it's funny. Who's called Freddie Freeman on my feed this morning on Facebook? Anthony Rizzo striking out Freddie Freeman in five pitches.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

I want to see that.

[Peter Vs Bond]

I'm going to send it to you.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Rizzo, the first baseman.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Rizzo striking out Freddie Freeman. Not.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Oh, he was with the Reds.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Not in the Yank, not in the Yankee uniform, his previous team. But he actually struck him.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Oh wow, that's amazing.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Cubs and blue Cubs uniform struck him out in a fight. In a five pitch, in a five pitch contest. Which I'm like, what the hell just happened?

[Sri Rajagopalan]

I love that. I'm doing great shree. We got a lot of conferences. It's, we're, we're doing next week we're in Chicago for P2PI Live. We're going to do the Issue Summit in New York in December. We even have to, we have a little trip down to Santiago, Chile to meet with the people at Walmart. That'll be fun. And then, God, January gets crazy. All the letters, right? Ces, nrf, fmi, lots of acronyms, right? Sri. It's a busy, busy time of year.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Four weeks in a row. So I'm actually looking forward to that because that's how we meet y'all in the industry and stay in touch. Look forward to dinners, events, booth time, stage time, speak time, call it what you may. Before we get to our guests, we want to ask you to consider following us on your preferred podcast listening app if you haven't already done so. This will ensure you automatically receive new episodes as they're released. And while you're at it, follow our sister podcast, the FMCG Guys and CPG Scoop with Risa and Jennifer. This year we're partnering with drugstore news on December 4th at the iconic Lincoln center on the annual Issue Summit in its 21st edition. We will be co presenting eight awards at the event in the health and beauty care have a space to both brands and retailers. We're also partnering with the Path to Purchase Institute and the annual OMnishopper Awards Chicago November 14, where a select group of winners will feature on the CPG Guys. Of course, at the time of release of this recording, those winners would have been announced and we'll be announcing what kind of episode we are actually creating with those winners. So to be a part or sponsor the Drugstore News Issue Summit, get in touch with us at ContactPoint and announcing the first retail media executive education program in our industry from May 5 to 8 at 2025 at Cornell Tech in New York City. The CPG guys are of course strategic partners for this immersive four day program that brings together industry thought leaders and renowned faculty to share best practices for building compelling retail media outcomes. You'll discover how to collaborate on creating best in Class Tech Stacks measure performance to ensure brands access the necessary KPIs based on brand campaign objectives, a new metric since 2024 January and establish strong partnerships between brands and retailers. In addition, of course we'll cover optimizing brand strategies using none other than your favorite word AI driven campaign design at scale to achieve marketing goals. Links to our Podcasts Our Sister Casts Social media profiles of my daughters Rhea and Laura how to register for P2PI Live or DSN Issues Summit for more information on the Cornell Retail Media Program may be found in the digital liner notes. Brandon I'm going to do the last paragraph again. Links to our podcast, Our sister Cass and the social media profiles of my daughters Rhiann, Laura how to register for the Drugstore News Issue Summit or for more information on the Cornell Retail Media Program. You can find all of that in the digital liner notes of this episode. And now, drumroll please. Peter Onto the main events as the world metamorphosizes itself to be fully omnichannel influenced nearly 100% by digital means, we continue our discussions on the CPG guys about preparing brands and retailers with the help of service providers to deliver for the consumer who's now 36524 engaged online with brands. This means it's a war and it's a war for attention. One such company that is on the mission of supporting this and building a world class unified retail media platform is none other than Epsilon. Today we talked to two such leaders, one from Epsilon and a partner of theirs, none other than the iconic Kimberly Clark brand. Let's welcome Maggie Giancola, SVP of the CPG Vertical for Epsilon and Stacy Medley, Senior Director, Integrated Media and Agency Relations for Kimberly Clark. Maggie Stacy, welcome to the CPG guys. How are you doing?

[Maggie Giancola]

I'm great, thank you. Sree, it's fantastic to be here.

[Stacy Medley]

Good morning. Thank you for having me. It's good to see you both.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Thank you of course for joining us. We're incredibly excited to speak with you today about the space of digital transformation. Discover your own career growth based on this. And of course, before we get to the detailed questions we've prepared for you, it would be great if you give us a brief overview of your respective companies and your roles there. Maggie, why don't I ask you to do that first.

[Maggie Giancola]

Sounds great, Sri. Thank you. As you mentioned, my name is Meggie Giancola and I am the SVP of CPG at Epsilon. Epsilon is an organization that is uniquely bridging the gap between martech and adtech, providing CPGs like Kimberly Clark an enhanced and more seamless way to understand, engage and activate their consumers. We do this by leveraging Epsilon's core platform at the center of which is our best in class Identity spine a universe of over 250 million actual people fully verified. That is the central nervous system to everything we provide. From a partnership perspective, it allows us to do three key things. First, provide a comprehensive view of a CPG's entire universe of consumers by harmonizing data and digital identifiers back to that individual person in a privacy compliant way. And then this ultimately allows us to build a comprehensive vision of how, when, where, what to say to each individual consumer to most meaningfully engage and motivate them and then ultimately activate that brand voice across paid, owned and earned channels. Ultimately, Epsilon is here to help CPGs better understand and connect with their consumers supercharging short term KPIs like sales and household penetration while also providing a sustainable growth model by building better lifetime value of their consumers.

[Peter Vs Bond]

I love what you say because brands typically have never had the capability the focus, especially on the marketing side, to focus on LTV. Unless you're DTC. The world has completely changed. Brands have lost 3 to 5% of households in the last year. Best way to get them back, most importantly, retain them ltv. So I'm looking forward to how you'll play this out in the industry and how brands are doing that. And let me ask Stacy, do you want to give us a quick overview of what you do for Kimberly Clark?

[Stacy Medley]

Sure, sure. Yeah Maggie, that's a tough act to follow, but I'm going to try. I'm Stacy Medley. I'm the integrated media and agency Relations lead at Kimberly Clark. And if you haven't heard of Kimberly Clark, the chances are you have some of our products in your house. We're a consumer packaged goods company manufacturing products like Huggies diapers, Kleenex, Cottonelle toilet paper and adult care products like Poise and Depend. We're a company who are really trying to improve the lives of our consumers. So I feel really fortunate and blessed to work at a company that has such great products. My responsibility at the company is to oversee and steward the strategies in partnership with our brands of improving the performance of our media investments and trying to make better connections with consumers in what can be a very complicated and dynamic environment. I'm responsible for what would be traditionally classified as national media and retail media, and trying to bring those two things together to drive more impactful and meaningful connections with consumers.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Thank you so much to both of you for that summary. In the digital liner notes of this episode will of course place links to your LinkedIn profiles, the company's LinkedIn page, and your company's websites. That way the people listening can easily connect back with your company, your brands as well as you, straight from their smartphones. And now for the first question. This one's actually for both of you and I'd love for each of you to talk about your own career evolution. Focus on the consumer, focus on the shopper, focus on ak the customer at the end of the day and how you got to this respective omnichannel digital focused role you're at today. Maybe Stacy, you can kick this off for us?

[Stacy Medley]

Sure. I'm happy to go first. I think I'm one of the odd few people maybe who knew exactly what they wanted to do before they went to college. I knew I wanted to be in advertising. I did not know what part of advertising and truthfully, when took my first media class in college I was like, absolutely not. This is not for me. It's so much math. I'm not doing it. And I ended up accepting a job that is not my first job and declining in radio sales. I was so enamored with the travel that they were offering and I was panicking because all my finance friends were getting their offers and I was still waiting for like my dream offer. And it came. It was with an integrated media agency in Chicago and I accepted that offer. My dad gave me some great advice and he said your dream job only comes around maybe once in a lifetime and you can either accept it or you can miss out and regret it. And so I took the opportunity and called the other job and accepted this one. And I've been in the industry ever since. I spent most of my career at advertising agencies in Chicago. I've worked at a couple. I've spent maybe an oddity, a bulk of my career at Mindshare, where I was there for 15 years. And then I Spent a number of years at Starcom, mostly working on CPG brands. I have tried other industries, but something always draws me back to cpg. I think it just excites me. There's an energy, there's an interest. And I think sometimes it can maybe seem formulaic, but I've never found it to be that way. I actually worked on Kimberly Clark a couple times, agency side. So this is my third go round. They were an amazing client. There was something about the culture that drew me in and this job opportunity to come and transform their media practice became available and I reached out to see if it would be a fit for the skills that I had. And it was super interesting, but I actually almost didn't take it. It was very media focused. But when I started talking to them, the possibilities of creating something new with them seemed interesting and exciting and I knew that the media part would evolve. They had an immense appetite for data and technology and creative and they were thinking about media broad than just the paid aspect. And that was something that really excited me. And so the job I have today actually didn't exist when I started at Kimberly Clark. So I am super excited to be there. And the path that I took was kind of a little bit winding. But the job that I have is one that I've always dreamed of having.

[Peter Vs Bond]

I'm actually jealous, Stacy, because I don't think I'm sure I know what I want even today. That's awesome that you figured it out in college. Over to you now.

[Maggie Giancola]

It's funny actually, because unlike Stacy, I had no idea what I wanted to do when I went to college because prior to going to college, I was 100% going to be on Broadway starring in all the musicals. A true theater girl thickened through my entire life until I had some great parental advice similar to Stacy, which opened my mind to potentially a different type of lifestyle I might want to live as I become an adult and navigate all the adult things. But it's funny because when I think about my over 15 year career in AD tech and martech, largely on the sales and strategy side of things, so much about my theater background has brought me to this point. The fact that I loved connecting with audiences, the fact that I loved collaborating with counterparts in my shows that I was in and working with them to elicit emotions and elicit responses from an audience thinking on your feet. So much of that is very much tried and true. And how I've showed up in my professional adult life, which is fascinating when you think about the journey we all go on respectively as humans, both personally and professionally. So I did not go to school for musical theater clearly, and I did end up in that ad tech and Martech space. I am physically based in Columbus, Ohio alongside of my husband and my two young children, a two and a half year old boy and a five and a half year old little girl. And that's after spending about over a decade in New York City where I spent the vast majority of my career and adult life. And most recently in the past eight years I've held senior leader positions both in sales and strategy as I mentioned. And really what brought me to this point today at Epsilon is over the past couple of years, similar Peter Sri to you and Stacy, obviously you know firsthand, having continued conversations with multiple CPGs and multiple CMOs about the continued challenges that particularly CPGs are facing in light of what is a dynamic and ever changing ecosystem we all live and work within, the advertising ecosystem in addition to some very nuanced challenges that CPGs in particular face and ultimately this fragmented world not serving CPGs in the way that was most meaningful given the fact that that retailer really plays the intermediary between any brand and consumer. And as I was having those conversations, the opportunity to truly connect with consumers and truly build that direct connection to drive short term and long term growth models was clearly the way of the future. And I was on the hunt to find an organization that had the tools in its toolbox to bring those innovative and more strategic solutions forward. And that's ultimately how I found Epsilon. I joined the organization back in January, particularly excited and motivated by the fact that they were taking what was really three legacy elements of the Epsilon family with a data practice, a technology practice and a media practice and bringing them together to ultimately bridge bridge that gap between Martech and able partners to find the heartbeat of their consumers, understand them and then follow them through their journey to ultimately revolutionize how CPGs not only go to market but how they drive both their top and bottom line goals. So I'm thrilled to be a part of this organization. Ten months in, still lots to learn but so far very exciting.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Is it fair to say then when we launch on 47th and 7th right there in broad lights with Lin Manuel Miranda writing the story, the CPG guys, you'll be the center stage action star for us.

[Maggie Giancola]

I'd be thrilled. Sri, thrilled. I would accept all the Tony Awards.

[Peter Vs Bond]

All right Peter, we have a mission now and we know what we're going to do. This is awesome.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

I'm just wild about Harry and Harry's wild about me. Sorry I was. I'm in the show tune mode now, Sri. You know me, get me singing and I can't stop all right, Stacy, Maggie, great to have you on the podcast today. Let's start with the topic of leadership. Both of you lead pretty important groups that are trying to drive outcomes for your companies and for consumers in our industry. What does that word mean to you and how do you value leadership? I'll let either one of you jump in with with how you like to start this.

[Maggie Giancola]

Leadership is such a powerful word and has many different connotations. When I think about that word in particular Peter, and how it shows up in business both personally and professionally, it is one that we cannot take lightly. When I think about my joys throughout my entire tenure of my career, there's two key things that come to mind. Number one, working alongside my client partners like Stacy to build innovative strategic solutions to revolutionize the marketplace and equally as important, the opportunity to inspire and lead people around those visions to maximize outcomes, mutually beneficial outcomes. Inside of that leadership is something that I have grown to love and value and feel personally inspired by. When I think about leadership and think about how I show up in leadership, I have three core values that I both live and lead by. The first is a deep commitment to the fact that we are all humans. First, when we deprioritize humanity, whether it's a colleague, a client, a teammate, when we deprioritize humanity, we take the common ground out of our relationship. And that inherently works against the ability to collaborate, build, be, and do better. So prioritizing humanity is fundamental. It also creates the opportunity to really understand the people you work with and know how to harness them to orchestrate bigger and better outcomes. My second core value in leadership is about meaningful inclusivity, spending the time to get to know the people you work with. I fundamentally believe as humans, all we want is to feel valued and valuable, to feel seen. And I think the same goes for consumers as we think about personalization. But when we think about it in the context of a team setting and a leadership setting, taking the time to get to know the people you work with allows you to meaningfully include the right people and the right voices, to curate innovation, to curate thought leadership, regardless of title, regardless of role and responsibility. And that enables us to be committed to meaningful inclusivity. And then the last, and the third is a commitment to success, and not just success as it pertains to the amount of revenue we might drive annually or the amount of brand sales you might be able to produce in an annual time base. It's about really understanding what each person individually defines as success and getting to understand that in addition to their superpowers of meaningful inclusivity, allows us to unlock each person's individual potential. So to go back to the question at hand, Peter, leadership, yes, it's about building a vision and stewarding a group of people towards said vision. But it's also about reprioritizing the humans we interact with, getting to know their key strengths and getting to know what motivates them and where they want to grow and stretch. So you can unlock not only the magic of each person you work with, but unlock then the collective magic you can all make together.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

That's terrific, Maggie. Thank you. Stacy, you follow up again after Maggie.

[Stacy Medley]

I know she's such a tough act to follow, but I'd follow her anywhere. I think that's super inspiring. And I think for me, the way that I think about it and truthfully, when you talk about women in leadership and just being a leader, I've never really thought of myself as a leader even in my career. And I've had some pretty big roles. And with being a leader you do, it does come with a lot of responsibility. But I think about what that word means to me and to me it's about authenticity and transparency and being humble, quite honestly. So I feel like in this industry it has changed so dramatically since I joined 24 years ago. And I always felt like I was behind the curve on every trend that happened where a lot of this industry has been digitally native and I was not a digital native. I've kind of had to learn along the way and I think some of the folks around me always know more than I do. And I think as a leader, like, I have really tried to surround myself with people who know more than me and I can't know everything. And so I think the people around me make me smarter and being open to their thoughts and their perspectives helps get better work. And I think as a leader, the team's work speaks louder than me alone. And so I think that is probably one of the most valuable lessons I've learned along the way is like letting your people be seen, being surrounded by smarter people than you and being humble enough to know that like, you don't always have the right answers and if you can rely on a team around you and you have a powerful, high performing team like that speaks volumes about you as a leader. It's not about how loud you speak, it's about how loud Your team speaks.

[Maggie Giancola]

I couldn't agree more with that, Stacy. And I'd love to just build. It is. I feel like we're both reflecting what is kind of an upside down triangle, if you will, which is a term I learned from a very important mentor of mine several years ago. But it is that ability to be humble, whether in knowledge or in skill or ability, and it's the ability to step back and empower people to own their. To own their key qualities. It's. It's pretty revolutionary when you think about prior ways of leading.

[Stacy Medley]

Megan, I kind of talked about this a little bit too. I think styles as a leader have evolved too over time. I mean, we've gone through some pretty tough times in the industry too, when you think about the pandemic. And leading through that time was very different than leading through other times. And I think when we were chatting, we talked about how that brought out more of the humanity in seeing people. I think early in my career, I always thought I had to have like the. This work self and this personal self. And I never wanted to show at work what was happening at home because it was super chaotic when I became a wife and a mother. I have three boys, so my home life is pretty chaotic. But you never want people at work to see that. You want to show up buttoned up and on task and being a little bit of a force. And I think going through Covid and being a leader of a pretty large team agency side really humbled me and allowed me to. I had to show up like, full spirit, full force. Like, you could see all of me. My, I had a kid learning underneath my desk, I would have one over the right hand shoulder, and that was all of me. And I think I realized in that moment, like, if I am struggling that hard, so is everybody else around me. And I think that actually made me a better leader because I think when you let people show up their full self, you actually get better work, to be quite honest, because they feel more comfortable, more confident, and they can contribute how and when they can versus how and when they were expected to. So I feel like my, my style has changed a bit over time and I'm. I feel better actually about the leader I am today with that perspective behind me.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Words of wisdom from both of you. I could not agree more. If there's a learning we all had from COVID it's family first, loved ones first. And at the end of the day, business is going to run with or without us. I mean, sounds a little morose coming from my mouth. But you know, I left corporate America on June of this year. I haven't missed it one bit. I'm doing my own thing now. And the beautiful thing is I can wear the Yankees hat in a live meeting. But yes, I think you need to put yourself and your family and your loved ones first, above and beyond everything else on planet Earth. If you thought about it outside of a work family, the time we maximize is with the loved ones around us. Not investing is actually a crime. So now I'm going to go a little bit more deeper into that relationship aspect and the leadership aspect and then ask you both, when did you two start working together? What is the strength of the partnership? How did it develop between both the brands, Kimberly Clark and Epsilon, of course. And then let's talk leadership. How do you count on each other to ensure you deliver for the consumer?

[Maggie Giancola]

Having joined Epsilon in January, the Kimberly Clark and Epsilon relationship predates me personally being involved. And it's been an evolving and very exciting relationship, as I've come to learn in the last 10 months. And Stacy, I don't want to speak for you, but this year in particular is a very exciting time in our partnership evolution as we embark on some of the broader goals of many CPGs, but particularly Kimberly Clark, and how we think about harmonizing data and activation to drive broader, more impactful outcomes. What I will say, though, is, yes, it's fantastic on the business front, but I had the absolute pleasure of getting to know Stacy more personally at our CPG Client Summit back in September, where, yes, it was wonderful to talk about a few business things, but for me, I found true joy in getting to know you as a person. Learn about your kiddos, learn about your life, learn about your career, where I felt so connected to you, hearing about the journey, even a little bit, that you've spoken about so far on today's podcast around how you've evolved not only as a leader, but how you've evolved your career and ultimately are in such an important and impactful role for the teams that you work with and support and the very important work you do on behalf of Kimberly Clark. And it brings me back to my key joys of my entire career of not only driving great business outcomes like we're doing in partnership with Epsilon and Kimberly Clark, but more importantly, getting to work with you as a human, as a fellow woman in leadership, balancing the 10,000 things we balance, including the mom guilt. It's inspiring to me, Stacy, our relationship, the opportunity to know that I don't have to pick, I don't have to be a killer executive or a killer mom. I can absolutely be both. And it's thanks to partnerships like I have with you that help validate that and inspire me that I can be both. And that is what I think is so powerful, not only about what we're doing for our respective businesses, but what we're doing together as humans.

[Stacy Medley]

Yeah, I would definitely agree. I think one of the impactful things about our partnership and the Epsilon relationship goes back a few years. I've been at Kimberly Clark three years, and it existed before. Before I got there. But I think, you know, we recently conducted a media pitch, and we are now working more end to end with publicists and Epsilon as an integrated part of that solution. And so sometimes I think you think that makes things easier, but sometimes it can make things more complicated because the expectation is even greater. And the ability to have the personal relationship and the understanding and dialogue with someone like Maggie allows me to pick up the phone and be like, hey, I'm seeing this opportunity. Like, how can we just, like, cut through everything and just try to get it done? And I think in our business, everybody has kind of always implicitly known that relationships matter. But I think it's not about, like, the wine and dine relationships. It's about the business relationship where you can just pick up the phone and know the other person on the other end is going to help you get it done, because you're both invested in the success of both of your businesses and you have a mutual relationship and respect to try to make things easier and cut through all the clutter, to just try to get good stuff done because you genuinely care about the success of the other person, not just them as a business, but them as an individual. And I feel like that's the relationship we have going as two individuals, but also as two companies who care about the success of each other.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

That's terrific, ladies. What I heard from that is successful outcomes are driven by. By relationships. If you think of the actions you do with your business partners as transactional, you're only skimming the surface. You really aren't getting the most value out of this. You've got to trust each other. You've got to build on that. You have to appreciate what each other are trying to achieve. And if everybody gets outcomes, then that's going to produce ultimately the best possible solution for everyone. So that's. That's really terrific. All right, so let's. Let's get to some industry topics beyond leadership and working with each other. You know, on The CPG guys, every once in a while we talk about retail media just occasionally. Okay. Yeah, it's like 200 of our episodes, but that's okay. Would love to hear from you, Stacy. What do you see as being relatively new, what's changed and what's evolving in your partnership around retail media that you think is really delivering for your consumers and for the retailers where they buy your products?

[Stacy Medley]

Yeah, I mean, in this topic, what is not new lately, I feel like this is a place where everything changes, which this is where the geek in me kind of comes out, where I said, I love this business from day one. It is highly complicated, but it's so interesting. And I described it as, we actually have the privilege of being in this business at a time when I think while it's super complicated, it is the most fascinating it has ever been. And I think the retail media space is making it super interesting. And I think the partnership that we have with Maggie and with Epsilon is giving us a lot of information that maybe we hadn't had before about the consumer. And I'm just going to say I hate that word because I feel like we lose the identity of the human when we talk about the consumer or the shopper. And so work that we've been doing is really about how do we think about people first and how do we really put them in the forefront of how we're designing the experiences for our brands and our products and that crosses the retail and into the retail environment. And I know there's a hot debate about is retail media just media? And Stacy Medley point of view, I think it's media to the consumer and to the person we're talking to. I don't leave my house and change my identity and put my shopper pants on and become a different person. So I really think that the data that we're leveraging and the insights that we're able to collect are helping us build better and sharper plans than we used to be able to create. And I think the retailers are enabling some of that activity as well. So even outside of our relationship with Epsilon, we are able to build relationships with the retailers to think about how we use the information and the relationship they have with consumers to create better experiences for our brands and products. Because when we use that power and that knowledge of the consumer, it creates better business for both of us, the retailer and Kimberly Clark. So I think there's going to be some massive shifts and changes. When you think about all the off site activity that's starting to take place where you see some of our customers building relationships with television companies or with other media companies, and I think that's super exciting. I can't wait to like, dig in and start testing more things to figure out how that can help our business and help our customer business. And I think, you know, there is that transparency and relationship with Maggie. We just recently had a conversation where we talked about, like, where are the services of the Epsilon company best delivering on the consumer experience and where do we partner and bring in our retail partners to help enable and enhance that experience? And I think that transparency and that dialogue keeps the consumer at the forefront and brings in the best of the abilities of the ecosystem to help drive the better performance for Kimberly Clark.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Wow. That's actually phenomenal. What a thoughtful response. I can also tell you that I have some good news for you, Stacy. We actually solve the question of is retail media Media? In episode 300, Kara Pratt from KPM8451 said definitively, Retail media is media. And you know why we know that? Because we have T shirts that say, retail media is media. So she said, I thought you were.

[Stacy Medley]

Going to tell me you figured out the measurement problem and you were going to give me that magic one.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We just determined that retail media is media. So we've got that settled. If it's on a T shirt, it has to be true, right?

[Stacy Medley]

Amazing.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Of course, every now and then on stage at a conference, you might see two gentlemen with the Yankees and Dodgers hat wear a T shirt that says so we'll leave it at that. Let me remind the public that today I'm speaking with Maggie Giancola from Epsilon and Stacy Medley from Kimberly Clark. And you're listening to the CPG Guys podcast. Maggie, over to you. The Omnichannel world, as we've kind of declared multiple times, all of us is 24, 7, 360. In terms of how she connects, how she shops, where she discovers and where she browses. Shopping baskets are, needless to say, very fragmented. How do you help build a consistent view of consumers showing her connections across channel?

[Maggie Giancola]

Yeah, thanks, Sree. And I will say she or he. Right? The head of household shopper. All of that is changing in addition to all the other dynamics that are changing as well. And to Stacy's point, I get to.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Be declared here on the CPG Guys. It may be he or she, but we will always say she first.

[Maggie Giancola]

Okay, then you can strike that from the record. As Stacy mentioned, it's about being people first, right? As we think about not only the fragmentation of the advertising ecosystem, at the end of the day, it's still advertising 101. We want to find the right consumer, deliver them a message and drive an outcome. That relatively simplistic journey of advertising has become incredibly complicated. When we think about all the different ways that you're solving the identity challenge, all the different elements of a tech stack that now have to be in place, all the different activation. As we talk about sitting here with retail media, you think about CPGs who are activating across several different national DSPs, anywhere from 20 to 30 different RMN platforms, social platforms. I mean, the reality is when you paint this picture of all the different vendors and partners you have to utilize to stitch together this very complex process to ultimately do find the consumer, deliver the outcome, it's incredibly challenging. I don't know Stacy, how you do it day in and day out, trying to stitch it all together. And that's ultimately what we are trying to help solve for here at Epsilon. By taking what is such a complicated process. Disparate parts lead to disparate outcomes. If you can better connect these things with the consumer at the center of it, that is ultimately how you really start to build a more harmonious process, a more connected process, a more efficient and effective process for a process that's become incredibly complicated. And that's really why I wanted to join. And also what I view as the power of Epsilon is the consumer is at the heart of that entire process from A to Z. We never lose sight of it. From starting point being able to build that most holistic view of the consumer, fully verified at that individual person level. To Stacy's point, not buckets of consumers, not groupings of cookies, but the actual people, who they are, what they do, where they spend their time, where they spend their money, all in a privacy compliant way. In addition to their digital identifiers being all centralized back to that individual person to the tune of 250 million people. Is that catalyst, like I mentioned at the start, to then being able to follow them through the journey, whether we also have first party data and can funnel that through a CDP to then enrich and enhance that point of view of that individual consumer. Whether we're funneling that through a clean room to ensure that we're truly building that holistic view and then seamlessly activating it across all channels. Listen, we know from COVID channel shifting is up. Consumers understand the power of flexibility. We learned that during the COVID times when we had to figure out the multitude of different retailers and then could easily do it inside of apps versus driving miles to different stores. Those behaviors have stayed here even four years later and the need to be able to respect the power of the very rich and robust data that retailers have to Also there needs to be mutual respect that CPGs still need to respect. The fact that consumers might want to buy Huggies at Walmart this week, but they might want to go buy it Target online pickup in two weeks from now. We've got to respect that. That goes back to the humanity piece and we have to put ourselves in our consumers shoes to truly understand them and never lose sight of them. Despite what is a very fragmented process at Epsilon, with this whole kind of streamlined process and with the consumer at the heart of it all, the biggest takeaway I can share with you is that we are really encouraging and helping brands shift out of funnel planning where we've had to plan by the funnel based on channels inside of each layer of said funnel, all in accordance to what is an antiquated path to purchase model. We have shifted out of that funnel and enable our partners to embrace orbit planning, truly meeting the consumer where they are, whether in purchase cycle in frame of mind. To Stacy's point, she doesn't put on her shopper pants and totally change her identity by respecting the full identity of a consumer where they're at in their purchase decision process, where they're at in their shopping journey, where they're at in their life to truly understand that which enables then the most effective messaging, the most effective strategy and the most effective activation to drive those both short term and long term outcomes. People have been saying the funnel's been dead for years, but there's never been another option. And that's where we at Epsilon fundamentally believe in the concept of orbit planning versus funnel planning to truly enable not only harmonization but managing the fragmented path to purchase.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Let me first say that I actually put on my Ironman pants and I do change my identity. So I may be a little alien in that.

[Stacy Medley]

You are so special.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Thank you. I love that her wife says that to me all the time. You're so special.

[Stacy Medley]

Don't tell her I told you that though.

[Peter Vs Bond]

My only question on what she said was clean rooms. I think the last 30 odd episodes. I really have to buckle up now and learn how to clean rooms pretty well. Man, I've been so focused on outsourcing that.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Cherie, that's the cleaning closet you're thinking of, not the clean room. Different.

[Peter Vs Bond]

I got you.

[Maggie Giancola]

Yeah. For that you would want to refer to what was it, Marie Kondo or the all those Netflix documentaries on cleaning up your cluttered spaces.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

I do want to bring up one thing you mentioned, Maggie, which was connecting data around the consumer at the heart of it and the unified id. It's not a unified ID around a social media profile or an email address. It is a name and a physical address. That's why or when you talk orbit, you're talking about, you know, who they are and where they are.

[Maggie Giancola]

Yes, that's right. And that's, I mean at the heart of our identity spine, it is rooted in verified and deterministic data. Actual name, actual physical address. And then that spine is what empowers us to then bring in all other types of data, whether it's circadian data from third parties, if it's data sitting in Stacy's data lake at Kimberly Clark, if it's first party data that any one advertiser it allows us to bring all of it in. And it's essentially an architecture that can aggregate all that. And that's the importance very simply, shree of clean rooms is the ability to truly harmonize all that data and harmonize digital identifiers, which is ultimately the key to turning insights into activation.

[Stacy Medley]

I think, Maggie, to give that like a human lens when we were chatting, I think the value in that is you enhance the experience for the consumer. I would sit in rooms and we would talk about the consumer and I think sheree, we would use the she, she, she. And I could never see myself in that because my household was flipped. My husband was the primary shopper, he was the caregiver at home. And our household didn't look like the household that everybod assuming was the target. And I think the power in the data to just humanize it a little bit is to identify that my household looks a little bit different than everybody else's household. And I'm a valuable household. I have a lot of toilet paper consumers in this house with three boys. And to identify and resonate with this house, you needed to talk to my husband a little bit differently as the primary shopper. And the messages needed to be a little bit different to motivate his purchases. My kids are also shoppers. They have Alexas in their room. And I understand that that's a huge privilege and I'm coming from a different place, but they're also shoppers and they influence the shopping list. So if you know that about my household, you can also tailor messages differently to influence our purchasing decisions. And so we may look very different than other households. And in order to drive the purchase from us, you have to think about how you are able to speak to those kinds of houses differently than others. So I think it just gives respect to the unique makeup of different households in our country because there's differences. And trying to give one message to one house and assume that that resonates or that that will help them, I think is a misnomer and doesn't respect our uniqueness as individuals.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

And Stacy, my only question is, are you one of those unicorn parents that actually encourage the neighborhood kids to teepee all the trees because you're trying to.

[Stacy Medley]

Drive consumption, incremental consumption.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

I love it.

[Maggie Giancola]

Such a great incremental usage case. We should think about an audience strategy with that message.

[Stacy Medley]

Kimberly Clark does not encourage this behavior. We do not endorse.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Thank you for that legal notification.

[Peter Vs Bond]

And Stacy, I want to clarify what I meant by she, Peter, has a daughter. I have five children, three furry felines that are all female and two human daughters here on the cpg. Guys, she will always be the boss.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Yeah, we know our, we know our place.

[Maggie Giancola]

Hey Shree. Peter, listen, it's Women's Leadership Month. I'm here for that emboldenment and empowerment. So I appreciate it 100%. But Stacy, if I could, I love that example so much because I think that's such just to make a point here, that is such a perfect example of the power of personalization. Personalization is such a giant umbrella topic and such a buzzword in today's marketplace. When I think about personalization, it goes back to what I mentioned about leadership. It's about respecting the fact that as humans, whether you're a marketer or consumer, we're all humans. We all just want to feel seen and valued and heard, particularly as we think about the younger generations. And so the opportunity to harness data in a really meaningful way to make consumers feel seen, valued and heard is, is really the power of personalization, in my opinion and really ultimately unlocks then what the outcomes we're looking for by honing in on personalization. So I think that's such a powerful example, Stacy, on the importance of personalization, but also how to action it.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

So Stacy, as the integrated media lead at Kimberly Clark with a number, as you mentioned, of quite beloved and well known brands, Kleenex, Cottonelle and the like, Huggies, certainly. What do you what advice do you share to your brand partners on how they should be focusing their investments on building connections with consumers that are actually meaningful and actually last?

[Stacy Medley]

It's so Funny, I think we talk a lot about and I'm, I'm lucky because I don't think I'm the only one kind of talking this in the company. It's about the opportunities we have today. We don't have to wait for research anymore that took months and months and months. We don't have to wait for studies to tell us what channels people are looking at. We have social media that gives us real time insight into people. You can go to the store and watch people. My husband is always embarrassed to go to the store with me because I'm like observing people and as they buy products and I like walk down the aisles and look at the shelf sets and wonder like what insight inform that the way in which the products are set up. But I think it's just a sort of a sense check of just get in and put yourself in the shoes of the people who are, you're trying to talk to. We are those people for the most part, for our products in most instances and do some of the research yourselves. You don't. And you can test it so fast and easy and low risk today in places that we didn't have before. I mean social allows you a quick place. Digital allows you a quick and relatively inexpensive place to test things. And see the worst thing is it doesn't work and you move on and you've spent a little bit of money to, to try something and sometimes nobody even knows and then you move on. So I just again, it's that privilege that we're in today where we have those kinds of opportunities that didn't exist before. So I think that's the advice that we give to people in that it is, you know, test within a testing realm. Tests are not a couple hundred thousands of dollars. They're, you know, a few thousands of dollars and you can put them in a low risk environment. So I think it's trying things and putting yourselves in the shoes of the consumer and getting on things like social media and going online and doing a little bit of research and going in store and looking around and seeing and observing people as they look at your products.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Very well said. Earlier on the show the statement was used we're all humans first. So Stacy, I'd love for you to kind of internalize that for a second. You know, we've talked quite a bit about family, who does the shopping at home, our own habits. And you know, Peter and I love that when you're in store, you're actually looking around who's shopping because we tend to do that now we know that Peter and I are not the only art quirky ones. But in our industry, it just shows a love for brands. It shows a love for the shelf, which is what at the end of the day gets us brand representation and builds brand equity. Right. But I'd love to hear from you, Stacy. What does that word we're all humans first mean in this consumer context?

[Stacy Medley]

I think we have to understand what motivates people, and I think sometimes we over complicate it. Like we're all humans first. When you think about it in the context of the work that we're trying to do and the products that we're trying to put in front of people, I think again, I have a privilege of working on products that actually change people's lives and enable them to do the things that they want to do. If you think about our adult care brands or our diaper brands, so I think understanding how to get these products in front of the right people and helping folks understand the value that they can bring, it's not just about selling for us, it's about truly unlocking that value. So I think getting the insights of where they'll be receptive and where it doesn't create embarrassment because you. And if you don't have that insight, you can create a bad experience for the consumer. And I think that's something we try really hard to avoid because some of the products people don't want to hear about in a public place. They want to see and know and learn more in a more private setting. And so I think we're all people first means that we have to understand and empathize at some times with our consumer. We can't just be selling. And I really think Kimberly Clark does a good job of doing that. And putting ourselves in the shoes of our consumers first and thinking about how to make their lives better and where it makes sense for us to be in their lives and where it makes sense not to be in their life.

[Maggie Giancola]

More importantly, if I can add one thing to that, I completely agree, Stacy. I equally think that if we really embrace the fact that we are all humans first, it gives us common ground. And when we have common ground, it's the catalyst to connection and collaboration. You want to collaborate with people, you have common ground equally. I also think it's the ability to try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. As we've talked about both our personal and professional identities today, right, Stacy? We show up as consumers with our own identities in context in mind. The brands we shop for the categories we shop for based on all of our different dynamics in our own lives. How do you put yourself in someone else's shoes? When you think about what Huggies means to someone who isn't your identity? And the more that we can embrace the fact that we're all humans first, it gives us a platform to try to put ourselves in someone else's shoes, respect their point of view, respect where they might be coming from, which unlocks a completely more intuitive and thoughtful way to even think about marketing. So I do think it's important that we don't deprioritize humanity and get too stuck on process and fragmentation. And 1700 different buzzwords inside of our advertising ecosystem. The priority of humanity could truly be very vital to unlocking the better, bigger business outcomes.

[Stacy Medley]

I love that coming from you, Maggie, because I think one of the things that you can risk in this world where we have so much data is to just reduce things to numbers and the data itself. And I think to remember that there are actual people behind that information who have thoughts, feelings, is going to be incredibly important. And I think that's a risk that we run as the future kind of becomes more digital, more technology, more digital data driven, that there are people behind all of those numbers.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

And let me add to something you both said at the CPG guys. We realized, I think in episode number two that the best way to recognize the humanity of people was to understand that people are at different levels of learning and that when you use industry buzzwords or acronyms in particular, you tend to lose people in the conversation because you're accustomed to using them. But not everybody in the room is really doing that. And the best advice we can give you is don't assume that everybody understands what every acronym. And there are a lot of people in the room that are going to be afraid to speak up, spell it out. It takes a little extra time. You don't have to say all the time, roas, roas, roas, you know, return on advertising spending. Just saying that little sentence every once in a while helps people keep track of what's going on because if you lose them, it's hard to get them back into the conversation. And I think that's a little piece of humanity. So let me close this out and I want to be forward looking because that's how we like to end every episode. Are there particular trends that you are both following and coaching others in your, in your businesses to follow? Obviously retail media is a big one, but there have got to be some others, AI and What have you? I kind of like, like let's take the wheel of fortune rstlne off the table and ask you what are the other letters? What are the other trends that maybe some people aren't necessarily paying attention to that you are. Let's go to Maggie first.

[Maggie Giancola]

I think there are both business as well as human trends that are equally important that I'm thinking about and then actively coaching myself and my team around. You mentioned AI, Peter. I do think that as we think about balancing all the personal parts of our lives, bringing our whole subs forward, but that invites then even arguably more chaos of how do you find time in the day to do all the things you need to do personally or professionally? I do think that there is so much power in the evolution, particularly of AI and how we can get information faster and use that then to show up in human relationships and partnerships with some more foundational knowledge, with some more foundational thought starters to then unlock our personal successes and abilities to then think about how we would strategically use it. So yes, AI to business and all the good things there, but also AI to how we show up in partnership and in business and formulate foundational data points to then strategically think about innovation. That's something I'm really, really focused on and we at Epsilon are also very focused on so we can be faster and more agile. Given this is a continued and it will continue to be a very dynamic ecosystem that we play within equally. I also just want to add in Women's Leadership Month, I'm very focused around coaching about empowerment and ensuring that everyone, but particularly women, are using their voices and advocating for themselves and advocating for their key strengths where sometimes they might not feel as emboldened to do so. I wanted to share really quickly the key thing that I've been using to not only coach myself, but coach my team. Conscious leadership is at the backdrop of my leadership style and something that has very much helped me evolve as a leader over the past few years. And they have a fantastic plethora of tools. But the one that really I think is powerful is coaching around your zone of excellence versus your zone of genius. Zone of excellence being the things that you do really well, more so than your peers and that people probably go to you for. Zone of genius is things you do really well, more so than your peers, but it also brings you so much joy that it doesn't feel like work. The thought of you might be really good at Excel, everyone goes to you, but when you're in a strategy session, you shine and you could do it for hours, it doesn't feel like work. And then using that as a backdrop to really have self awareness. And then think about how you spend more of your time in your zone of genius. When you think about how you spend your time in any given week or month and trying to really put yourself in a position where you can be more in your zone of genius than just living in your zone of excellence, which is where a lot of us live. It's really important, I think, as we navigate the future and we think about trends of not only the marketplace, but within the four walls of any of our respective companies. Because we know that when people are happier and more productive and can unlock fuller potential, they're more fulfilled. Their loyalty to an organization, their commitment to their job and their responsibilities, that productivity will grow. And quite frankly, I want to live in a world where we are not only extremely productive, but also extremely happy. And so I do think this work is just as important as navigating the business trends of the marketplace. Because it is our job as leaders to show up and encourage people to be fulfilled and to drive incredible business results.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

Here, here, Maggie. That was ideal. Again, Stacy, I put you in the position of having to follow Maggie. Next time you're going to go first.

[Stacy Medley]

Every time I need to go first.

[Maggie Giancola]

You guys are really, you're touching the theater girl in me heart right now of the accolades. So thank you for that.

[Stacy Medley]

Well, you can see why I enjoy working with her so much. I think maybe two things for me that I'm watching, one that sort of keeps me up at night. I feel like I'm living in my own little focus group when I watch my three boys and how they consume media and it is completely different than how I consume it. And I worry that if we don't continue to evolve in change, we will completely miss them as opportunities for products in the future because they. I don't even think they know what live TV is. I think they're so influenced by creators and influencers and they watch and view things in a completely different way. They don't even know what a scheduled TV program was like. I show them things and they're appalled that like you had to get up and turn the dial on the TV or a phone that was actually on the wall. Like the expectation and the speed that they expect and the instant gratification that they will demand from products and marketers is crazy and fascinating. So I think it keeps me up because it's interesting. But we have to keep moving and iterating and then Maybe the second thing is a little bit personal but is a little bit relevant to where we're going today, which is the social commerce space. And I think, Maggie, you touched on it with the orbit versus the funnel and the way in which I want to start shopping and the technology that is starting to be able to enable it to make that easier for people when their browsing in social and the ability to just click on something and add it to my cart and be able to buy it, whether that's an outfit or one of the products that we sell at Kimberly Clark. I think easing the path to getting the things that you want is super fast where you want it. Not necessarily just in the store or on my PDP page, but if I want it on a social site, I can just click it and add it. So I think that's something that we're talking a lot to our marketers about because it does debunk that funnel. I could be sitting on my couch watching TV and adding things to my cart and building my outfit for the next day and I'm doing all that together and I'm buying stuff left and right. So I think that's super interesting. And one of the things that we're trying to talk to our marketers about so that we don't think about make you aware, make you think about me and then you buy me later. It's all happening all at once and wherever the consumer desires.

[Peter Vs Bond]

No debate, because it's about 360, browsing, shopping, always being aware. And we started this episode right up top by saying a war for attention. And that's what it really is. Let me remind our audience that you can find all of our content by going to web Browser and typing cpguys.com as the URL. If you think you or your company has thought leadership to contribute to our community discussion, please do send us an [e-mail] and maybe you can join us on the podcast just as these two wonderful leaders did today. Don't forget to drop us a [e-mail] navigation bar up top because it tells us how we're doing. Thank you for the 34,000 plus followers we have on LinkedIn, for your dedication, for your clicks, likes DMS, hellos, meeting us at conferences, doing podcasts with us remotely, online, offline, at trade shows. And thank you so much. Thank you to both of you for joining us today on this podcast. I can't say thank you enough times and for this wonderful discussion on leadership.

[Maggie Giancola]

Thank you Sree. This was Fantastic.

[Stacy Medley]

Thank you for having me. This was fun.

[Peter Vs Bond]

Mr. Ban, fabulous discussion on two types of leadership here. Human leadership, consumer leadership. Thoughts?

[Sri Rajagopalan]

A couple of salient points from the conversation. As Maggie started saying at Epsilon, they're looking to bridge the gap between Martech and Adtech and they're doing that around the consumer, harmonizing the data, creating a unified identity, one that's predicated upon a name and an address. And it's fundamentally changing how they go about targeting these humans for all sorts of communications. I love the leadership inspiration around the three values Maggie articulated. Humanity first, meaningful inclusivity and commitment to success. I thought those were outstanding. And leadership being prioritized around humanity, recognizing their people before their shoppers or their consumers. Or that that's pretty important. And that there were three things I heard from both of them about being authentic, being transparent and being humble. I think that's particularly what Stacy was highlighting, that you really need to get to know the personal to some degree. Appreciating. We oftentimes try to guard who we are. We don't talk about our personal lives. We want to be the professional in the room. But getting to know who people are and how you can value them better, it's only going to lead to better connections and better outcomes. I will also mention this, Maggie, you talked a lot about this being Women Leadership Month, talking about empowerment. We've always been about that. At the CPT guys we had on last year, some of our old friends from PepsiCo, they call themselves the Band of Sisters. If you haven't read their incredible book, you should smile. More stories about how to dismantle gender bias in the workplace. Whenever I lead people, I give that book now to everyone who works for me because I think it's critically important. Because it's not just about you doing that as a woman. It's also about SRI and me doing that as allies that are there because when these kind of things happen, they're in, we're in the room and we're not just there to stay silent. We have to be active participants in everything that's going on. So we believe that. Don't let your relationships in the work that you do. Being transactional in nature, that doesn't get you the step change, growth and success that you want. It has to be about a longer term relationship. I heard Stacy say very clearly, retail media is at a fascinating phase of development. There's so much going on, but at the end of the day, retail media is media. We've answered that question. The measurement aspect and the investment aspect still work to be done. But it is media and it's better media. It's not just media. It's better media than what we had before because we can actually measure. And you know, moving from this concept of funnel planning to orbit planning, I really like that. First of all, it's no longer two dimensional, it's very three dimensional. And I think that that is, that that's a term SRI that we're going to probably end up adopting very quickly. Are you at a level where you're actually orbit, orbit planning and that's all about, at the end of the day, enhancing the customer experience. That personalization is about respecting human desire to be seen, valued and heard. I think Maggie said that so articulately. Social and digital channels allow, and that's something that Stacy brought up, allow for rapid and inexpensive testing that we can do things at. We can do things in a scale that is not terribly expensive but can produce the insights that will allow us to build meaningful loyalty and connections with our consumers. But don't just do everything digitally. Get in a store, watch what humans are doing. Pay some attention. There's nothing I like more than when I'm on a vacation to get up early and go to a grocery store and just sit there and watch what people are doing wherever.

[Peter Vs Bond]

I have traveled the world with Peter, 6:30am in the morning, he has not missed a heartbeat to go buy some snacks, some beverages, some food anywhere, any corner of the world.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

I'm already out shopping stores. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those were my, those Marcelian points. Such a charming and insightful and powerful conversation with these two industry powerhouses. Cherished. I love this.

[Peter Vs Bond]

So I can't say enough to thank you both for your leadership, not just of people, but also for the brands you represent, as well as your leadership, very important leadership in getting brands back to where they truly deserve to be. Which is leadership off the shelf. And that's how we deliver jointly for the consumer. Peter, I want to say thank you for joining me on this episode as we do every single week. Every single episode. And I want to say thank you to both of you for joining me. That's a wrap of this episode. We will see you soon on another episode of Wait for it. CPG Guys.

[Sri Rajagopalan]

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