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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Ron Bielski, managing partner and global CPG lead of NIQ Next, the strategy growth and transformation consulting division of Nielsen iq. And you're listening to the CPG Guys Podcast.
- [00:16]
B
Welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. Your host Shree Rajagopalan and Peter V S Bond explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in an increasingly digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG Guys.
- [00:35]
C
Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. I'm of course Sree, your co host and also CRO and co founder of Think Blue Consulting, your trusted partner in your omnichannel development journey. Get in touch with me at shrinkblueconsulting co. That's co.com please do listen to my older daughter's music@www.rearaj.com and follow laraj, my younger daughter as a member of the world's fastest growing global girls group, Cat's Eye. Of course, joined today by my co host, my best friend and psychic, Mr. Peter V S Bond, who also moonlights a set of industry incline engagement at Flywheel, the commerce acceleration division of none other than Omnicom, the holding company. Peter, where are you today? What's going on? How are you?
- [01:16]
D
Hey, Sri. Well, I'm in midtown Manhattan today. I managed to lock up my Flywheel PC so I had to give it over to the IT people to reimage the entire thing. Serves me right. But I'm also going to a wonderful event this evening in lower Manhattan with our friend Sarah Marzano. She's giving a speech, so I'm in town to do that. But I am. I'm what I mostly have going through my mind, cherie, is you. And I started last night on all our travel plans for the coming season we'll call it from September through June. And I start to realize all the plane tickets we're booking to go to events like grocery shop and unboxed and even even so far as to booking our lodging in Cannes for next year's Festival of Creativity. It's really, it's getting real, Sree.
- [02:14]
A
It's.
- [02:15]
D
It's about to start up again. The craziness.
- [02:17]
C
Nothing, nothing is better than good prep. That's what we've done. But it also reminds me where and when we have to be in the industry and what we need to still do for the industry. So long way to go. Make sure you're subscribing to our podcast on your preferred listening platform where you can get our latest episodes and even go back to consume the over 500 episodes we've published Today's episode is an industry focused one that will span the spectrum of macro and microeconomics and what CPG brands can really do about it as they look for volume growth. Join us in welcoming to the podcast Ron Bielski. Ron is the Managing Partner, Global FMCG Lead of Nielsen IQ Next, which is the strategy, Growth and Transformation Consulting division. What is this division? We will cover this on the podcast. We will discovered in depth what they do and how they can help you as a brand and help you actually sustain your growth. So let's welcome Ron to the CPG guys. Ron, thanks for making time. It was a pleasure to have met you@NielseniQC360 back in early summer. How you doing man? Welcome.
- [03:23]
A
I'm doing great. I'm doing great and it's great to see you again and really, really excited. I've been a big fan of the podcast, so it's an honor to be here. So thanks so much.
- [03:31]
C
We're excited to have you on the podcast. We'll include in the digital show notes of this episode, links to your LinkedIn profile that eventiq. And so let's get to the questions. Obviously the first question on everyone's mind, just as Peter and mine is Decompose, what is the strategic consulting arm of niq?
- [03:47]
A
Yeah, maybe I'll start with what our mission is as a team within niq and just in kind of a very short blip, it's really our mission is to connect our clients and help them connect what's now to what's next. So look at the now is really lives in the data that powers the insights that we provide to our clients. And the next is really helping our clients identify or possibly clarify and accelerate their path to success. So if we peel that onion back just a little bit as part of niq, we hear from our clients on a daily basis, their aspirations and their challenges. And not only do we have access to lots of data that can help inform and solve some of those challenges, but more importantly is that we're sitting side by side with those clients on a daily basis and we really understand how their business works. So our goal is not only to provide analytic insights to our clients, but also to help provide our clients with practical and actionable recommendations. So I'm really, really jazzed not only to be here, I'm jazzed about what I do and all the great things we're doing with clients. And everybody who knows me will tell you that I'm really, really energized about helping clients succeed. And I'm really, really excited to share a little bit about that with you today.
- [05:03]
C
Also, let's dispel a confusion. Are you primarily focused on brand growth, cpg? Are you brand and retail?
- [05:10]
A
Either it can be CPG or retail.
- [05:13]
D
Thank you for that overview. I think that helps set the context for our conversation. And Ron, welcome to the podcast. We're excited to have you.
- [05:21]
A
Thanks, Peter.
- [05:21]
D
In your role as head of Strategy consulting, how are you advising brands and retailers to revolve, pardon me, to evolve in response to the most critical market shifts, especially regarding consumer behavior, inflation, and the supply chain volatility that everyone in our ecosystem has experienced over the last couple of years?
- [05:44]
A
Yeah, yeah, this, this topic is top of mind with a lot of our clients and something that I'm we're actively working with a lot. But I think it's safe to say that the, the new normal for us in CBG or retail is can be summed up in one word, and that's uncertainty. And obviously things are not as predictable as they used to be. And you've mentioned a few examples of that. So really, success requires organizations to be more rigorous in their planning. So this means not just having a plan A, but also having a plan B and a plan C and really having those represent the most probable scenarios that might unfold. So let me give you a quick example of how we're helping clients in this way. So we recently helped a global food manufacturer address this dynamic and help them by identifying and quantifying the volumetric impact of over 20 unique factors, many of which are outside of their control, by the way. So those are things like things that you mentioned. Inflation, tariffs were part of it because those are the food client changes to the SNAP program and just overall changing consumer practice preferences are things that we addressed. The overall goal of the engagement was to help the client pivot from a reactive stance to a proactive one. So these forecasts in this quantification that I just described, as well as the recommendations that we provided to this client, are now being used as part of this client's long term strategic planning process. It's helping them develop plan B, Plan C, etc. So really my broad recommendation to listeners today is to reacquaint yourself with things like game theory, for instance, things that we studied back in school and whatnot. But I'm a very big believer in going back to fundamentals and trying times. So as you know, game theory is a really, really valuable tool in this environment. And if done well, it really does provide a roadmap for plan B and C and whatnot. And finally, I can't emphasize this enough. As marketers, we do have a responsibility to the organizations we work for to always keep consumers front and center of our strategies. So in this case we have to remind ourselves that uncertainty is a significant concern not just for us in the business world, but for consumers and their day to day lives. So approaching these plans with empathy and compassion revolving around this uncertainty is actually going to help unlock opportunities for my clients, CPG companies that's going to find areas of growth for them.
- [08:26]
C
Ron, as somebody who's in and out of the data every day, what I originally wanted to ask you about the shopper data, which I'm going to get to, but I'll be remiss if I don't ask you. The CPG industry has been in a volume challenge mode for nearly two years now or more. If I were to ask you as the captain of the consulting army, what is the number one suggestion you would give CPG brands, what would that be? Is it literally told us about become analytical?
- [08:53]
A
Yeah, I mean I think analytics actually inform strategies overall. But I would say the biggest thing that I would say the most important thing is to make sure that we're looking through a consumer lens, as I just said to everything. But that's also with the ability to enable and drive long term trust with consumers. And that's a big challenge within all large organizations, but certainly for large CPG organizations overall. So anybody that knows me well knows that I'm a big believer in trust. It's a big thing that I weave through everything that I do and likely we'll hear a bit about that as we have our discussion today.
- [09:33]
C
Does it mean that the data that you're seeing, there's some sort of signal or communication happening back to you from the data that trust is eroding across the board for the largest brands in the world?
- [09:44]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean when we look at brand health and particularly when you decompose it down, definitely see generational gaps in particular different age cohorts and particularly younger consumers. We do see erosion of trust in large organizations and there's reasons for that, obviously. And again, we can talk about that in more depth, but definitely have seen that. And I think that's one of the reasons why you see some smaller brands emerging and things that maybe were much more difficult to do in the past, like when I started my career 30 some years ago, are a bit easier for smaller brands to gain some traction because of this trust that they're able to build with Consumers. Which sounds very, very odd because again, you know, back in the day it was actually the big brands that had the trust component with them.
- [10:40]
C
What a world, what a world we've come to now. But with vast shopper data at your disposal, Nielsen IQ's disposal, how do you take that and help clients move beyond just data to actionable predictive strategies that drive growth and resilience? Surely you must have some sort of a process or playbook.
- [10:57]
A
Yeah, and to me, it's all rooted in finding insights within the data itself. That's what shifts data from just being information to being something that drives action and that predictability that you were just talking about. So if I think back again over the course of my career, you know, I had a mentor many, many years ago who would always remind me that within any data set there are insights. And the challenge, particularly when you have large quantities of data, is finding those insights that are most impactful for clients. Those are the ones that drive the transformation and drive the growth that's at the root of what NIQ next does. So my beginning point when I'm faced with this challenge is really to look at data, classify it into one of two buckets. First bucket would be what describes what is today, the now that I was talking about. The second bucket is the data that informs what could be. So the next or the vision of the brand. And the insight sits in the middle of the two. So the bigger the delta between what's now and what's next or what is today and what could be tomorrow, that bigger delta actually drives and helps us identify more impactful insights. So really then, then we start talking about, okay, how do you make lives actionable? And really the actionability of this is really the roadmap that connects what that vision is to from where we are today to where we could be. So ultimately the key to success in all of this though is all about measurement and choosing KPIs that we can measure and show. I'll call it progress towards that end vision. And then, you know, I would say around resilience in particular, I think the key thing, again, and I know I sound repetitive a bit, is really having contingency plans in place, being ready for the unexpected. And that's just again the new normal that we live with today.
- [13:02]
D
So, Ron, I want to build a little bit on what SRI mentioned, the volume challenges that brands are facing. I think it's safe to say that for most of the big consumer goods, the fast moving consumer goods brands, 80 to 90% of the volume is still in physical retail, but that's the channel that is seeing no growth or even negative growth right now. Whereas E commerce and marketplaces is where you're still seeing double digit growth in many cases. So I guess my question to you is this. How, how have the rise of marketplaces and E commerce, how is it reshaping your strategic culting consulting approach for CPT clients? You know, balancing the offline versus online? I need to protect the business where most of my sales are occurring, but I'm not really driving growth there. It's kind of just I'm sitting in front of the net trying to keep the pucks from going in. Like how are you trying to give advice? And I particularly think about some of the, you know, digitally native brands that want to cross the chasm and actually scale. Like what, what, what's your basic approach and how do you think about contextualizing this for your clients?
- [14:24]
A
Yeah, sure. And I, I guess maybe I'll start with the backdrop. And this is why I so excited about working for a company like niq. One of the things we talk about with our clients is that we provide the full view and Omnishopper is central to that. Right. So the good news is we have information, we have data that can feed those insights that I was just talking about to inform what you were just talking, what you were just mentioning. So from a consulting perspective, we're in a really, really good place to, you know, help our clients address these challenges. Now to me, as it relates to CPG overall, it's all about making sure that products are available where consumers expect to find them. And we have to remove friction for our, our consumers. They're challenged day to day. You know, we know all, you know, people are working multiple jobs just to make ends meet, things like that. And that's where the magic starts happening. So our consulting on this topic is really guided by those consumer expectations which, you know, oftentimes are aligned to the specific categories that they're in. So for some categories like pet care, online shopping has an enormous consumer benefit. Nobody likes to, you know, carry, you know, 30 pound bags of dog food from the grocery store into their trunk of their car and then into their house when the option exists to just have it delivered directly to your doorstep. For other categories, things like beauty, digital marketplaces have definitely emerged as a big growth engine. And in my mind's eye, if you decompose that a little bit, it's really driven by credibility. So a short TikTok video may have much more credibility in consumer's eyes because there isn't a lot of production and editing that's happening with them. It comes off as much more authentic versus maybe slick television ads and things like that, where there may be some skepticism in consumer size, but for other categories, things like fresh food and whatnot, online shopping has emerged, but there are operational challenges there and logistical challenges, which means that brick and mortar are still going to play a role in that. So big picture, it's more about really, really again, looking at things through a consumer's lens and trying to remove friction, make their lives easier on a day to day basis. And that's where we went.
- [16:45]
C
Let me remind our audience that we're speaking with Ron Bielski from Nielsen iq. So let's get into one of the heated areas in the industry. I want to say private label, but it's more like private brands. These days, many retailers are expanding private brand offerings while consumers are more price conscious than ever. In your data, what you're looking at, your insights, strategy, positioning, what are you telling CPG brands to do? How do they preserve margin and differentiate in this environment?
- [17:14]
A
Yeah, when I'm consulting on brand strategy with clients, the first thing that I always start with, and I actually do this with clients when I first meet them, ask them to pull out a piece of paper and a pen or a pencil and write down what is the definition of a brand. And it is a very interesting exercise if, you know, you think we're all marketers and whatnot. But the varying answers that, that you might get, but the one that really provided clarity for me early in my career is all about relationships. And that specifically the way I would answer that question in a sentence is that the brand or brand is a relationship between a person and a product or service. And that we really, really need to emphasize the word relationship there and think about that relationship and how you nurture a relationship from a consumer product perspective. So at the end of the day, if a product has a weak relationship with people or no relationship with the people, it actually is much more of a commodity. It's going to be driven by price more than anything else. But products that have that robust relationship will help drive consumer loyalty. And obviously that's the North Star for most of my clients. But given that definition, we need to continually remind ourselves, as you just said, that private label, we need to look at private label now as brands. And you know, back in the day, when I think about when I was a child who went to the grocery store and whatnot, there used to be just an aisle that was all private label and everything was in a, you know, black and white packaging and things like that. We have evolved tremendously from there. And private label and the retailers that own those private labels are doing a good job in terms of developing and nurturing those relationships. So I think the key thing is if we want to think about preserving margins and differentiation, the brands must first of all justify their higher price point. That's typically where private label is competing. And the obvious example of that is P and G. And they're really masters at this with their strategy around notable noticeable product superiority and really, really driving that. If you're competing, you know, not just against other CPG manufacturers, but also private label. But then the other thing is making sure that we're keeping consumers engaged. And just like any relationship, we've got to work on nurturing those relationships. And this is where the role of contemporary marketing tools really comes into play. Back in the day, marketing was kind of a one way communication avenue. We're talking to consumers and we could really control the dialogue about what a brand is and what it stands for. The world has shifted dramatically, we all know that. So embracing those techniques and really thinking about it's not just a one way communication avenue, but we're actually, actually the best marketers that are actually addressing this are actively listening to consumers. They're developing the relationship, they're gaining insight from what consumers are saying and doing and actually not just listening, but doing something about it. And then obviously innovation plays a big role as well in making sure that we're staying ahead of the curve and we're finding those insights and addressing them through, through innovation. So again, that gap that I was describing on what is and what could be and then finally, as always, is making sure that we're building trust over time and that it's critically important that trust is preserved. And because we know that it's really hard to recover when trust is broken with client or with consumers. So I say, you know, big picture, it's really, really, really about this idea of relationship and always REM clients around that idea and that concept.
- [21:16]
C
Ron, I am tempted to ask you on the trust angle, if trust is eroding, especially with a given generation and also across generations, is private label gaining trust?
- [21:28]
A
That's a really good question. I would say that it may not necessarily be that they're gaining trust, but they're potentially being given opportunities to fill in where trust has been broken by maybe a well known brand. So we've obviously seen examples of this over the past handful of years. And whatnot. But when that happens, it opens the door for private label or smaller brands to step in and start building that trust.
- [21:58]
D
Yeah, Ron, I'll build on that. I don't know that necessarily they broke the trust other than maybe they broke the trust on the price differential and that was enough. Also during the pandemic, scarcity of resources caused brands to make decisions about either assortment, refinement or allocation. And that meant that there were a lot of out of stocks and so consumers were forced to try other products. What I found is that when consumers are presented with another brand, they try it. If the quality is equal in value, then suddenly the price is the most important thing. It's not the most important thing as, as a standard, most people think it is. That's built into the, into the equation. It's actually the quality of the product. And the other thing that's really driving private label is trust is actually user generated content, product ratings and reviews. Now that they can access and they see that another thousand people have tried that private brand and, and they consider to be equal in quality. That's enough for them to, if, if the price differential is really irritating them, that's enough to get them to move to, to and from a national brand to a private label. And once they're there, it's pretty hard to get them back, don't you think?
- [23:15]
A
Absolutely, absolutely. And that's what I, what I was describing in terms of this idea of it just opens the door and that once that door is open, it's hard to close that.
- [23:25]
D
So the one category that, I'm sorry to go on this, but it really is fascinating to me, the one category, and you mentioned P and G, where I don't see a lot of private label is laundry detergent. And I would also say toothpaste. Those two categories are categories where the big players seem to have kept private label at bay. Right. You walk in, you don't see private label toothpaste. If you see private label detergent, it's one or two facings and the rest of it are the two big, you know, it's all Unilever, it's all Procter and Gamble. What are your thoughts on that? If you have any, on why they've been able to keep out. Procter and Gamble in particular has been able to keep private label out of their categories, their dominant categories.
- [24:09]
A
Yeah, I mean, just my opinion on this is, I think a lot of these categories that you were just mentioning are very personal. Right. Toothpaste, something obviously is incredibly important for oral health and whatnot, but you're putting it in your mouth and. And whatnot. And then again, not saying that there may, there may be an opportunity for private label there, but when you think about the power of the brands that Procter and Gamble has nurtured over decades, and I'll speak for myself, you know, for. In the laundry detergent category, the brand that I use is the brand that my grandmother used and the brand that my mother used. And fair enough, you know, it's just, it's a good example of the power of brands.
- [24:53]
D
All right, so let me get to my question now that I've, I've picked at the last one that you and SRI were reviewing. Consumer demand for sustainably and ethically branded products is rising. How does your team at NIQ support brands in aligning these consumer values with your client's business performance, avoiding both underperformance and also this concept of greenwashing?
- [25:21]
A
Yeah, to me, the one thing that we focus on when we're talking to clients in this space is it's all about authenticity and really, really this idea of being authentic when you're talking about sustainability, ethical branding and whatnot. But it really does start now with the recognition that the world has evolved to the point that ethical branding and strong business performance are not mutually exclusive. One can actually help the other one. And it really, to me, starts with defining the brand's mission. And if a brand determines that sustainability or any other strategy that's connected with social responsibility is pivotal to its positioning, the most important things are, first of all, that it's ubiquitous, that all touch points reinforce that mission overall. But then also this idea of authenticity, which means that it makes sense to consumers, first of all, that they can clearly see the connection between the product itself and the mission, that the sustainability mission that we were just talking about exists, but that there's also a commitment to it. And that commitment lives through thick and thin. So again, there's obviously some high profile examples where brands had a stated mission in the space and have deviated from it. And from a consumer point of view, that just becomes an example of inauthenticity. And being inauthentic hurts brands, not just the brands that are involved, but it can hurt all in the case of what I do, all major CPG manufacturers, because again, it erodes trust in large organizations. So ultimately, people vote with their wallets. So if a brand sticks to its mission through thick and thin, it drives clarity and it builds trust.
- [27:19]
C
Ron, I gotta go to Ask Arthur. You've heard about Ask Arthur. So what role is artificial intelligence playing in Nielsen IQ strategic consulting capabilities? Are you leveraging Ask Arthur from forecasting, scenario planning, shaping the future, strategy advice, brand strategy? How are you actually helping clients adapt to the usage of AI in their everyday business?
- [27:42]
A
I guess the first thing as it relates to Ask Arthur is something we're really excited about and seeing lots of positive clients client feedback, you know, really helping our clients navigate data and whatnot. But, you know, that's, that's a starting point, you know, from a consulting perspective, you know, as is very well documented, AI is an enormous disruptor for consulting firms. On its surface, one of the obvious benefits is that AI helps the analytic process and particularly with large data sets. But one of the key advantages for NIQ and NIQ NEXT in particular, is that not only that we have access to the data, one of the key advantages NIQ NEXT has is not just the access to the data that is at our fingertips, but that we know how it's structured. And that structure of that data really, really helps drive efficiency when you're using AI. So more specifically, we know that an IT clients have specific ways that they like to look at their business. They have custom databases and whatnot. And we're able to very, very quickly adapt our consulting to that customized view that they have. So why is that important? It's because AI absolutely can help drive efficiency and analytics and inform forecasting and scenario planning. But it can't just be for efficiency sake. It needs to lead to higher quality insights. So this comes from AI finding important insights that maybe human intelligence may miss again just because of the large quantities of data that has to be sifted through. So AI is playing a big role in our consulting, but we also view there to be a tremendous value in AI and human intelligence working in harmony together to provide those actionable recommendations. So I did speak a couple minutes ago about the importance of delivering actionable recommendations to our clients. To do that, we need to understand the environment that our clients are operating in. So for example, we know all consumer products companies have resource constraints. There are not unlimited amounts of resources and even some cultural considerations within those clients. So human intelligence is the most effective way of doing that now. So what excites me is the marriage between the two. It's this idea of AI really helping identify those insights and analyzing or driving efficiency in the analytics. But it's also that marriage with human intelligence that helps drive the transformation and those actionable recommendations.
- [30:30]
D
So, Ron, our podcast recording software, Riverside, offers the option of an AI co host. Should I pull the trigger on that. Is it time yet or am I sticking with SRI for a little while longer?
- [30:44]
A
Yeah, I'm going to say, you know, there's a good partnership here, that there's a lot of magic happening. What's the magic you've got going on right now?
- [30:51]
D
Okay, I just wanted to check.
- [30:53]
A
I figured you, Rohan.
- [30:54]
C
Can you imagine somebody recommending their own epitaph? You know, that's just hilarious.
- [31:00]
D
All right, Ron, so post pandemic consumer markets are diverging. How do you help your clients calibrate strategies across diverse regions, be it developing or emerging markets?
- [31:16]
A
Yeah, and you know, assuming that a common goal of all CBG manufacturers is to maximize growth, we're advising our clients to view things like you might view your personal investment portfolio. So knowing, first of all, knowing nothing is guaranteed. We want to manage risk, which usually leads to a discussion about diversification, but also about investing disproportionately where you think there could be a significant opportunity. So placing bets on the table. So from a developing market perspective, we know that, you know, roughly two thirds of global FMC growth, FMCG growth, excuse me, will come from developing or emerging markets. So there's lots of focus, particularly on Asia Pacific for instance. But with that comes some challenges. Those challenges are fragmentation in particular. So we've seen global CVG manufacturers struggle because it's difficult for them to develop a bottom up strategy for each one of these markets because of this fragmentation. So the end result becomes that there's underperformance relative to what I'll call local giants who have developed strategies and built brands in markets that are specific to the markets that they, that they serve. So with that as a backdrop, we use analytics to help our clients develop top down strategies to first of all identify the markets that they want to invest in and drive growth. But once those decisions are made, success is really going to be driven from a bottom up strategy specific to each individual market. So it's the combination of this top down and bottom up strategy and execution that really is the recipe for success. So that's why NIQ next we made the decision a while ago that we have boots on the ground in all parts of the world to help drive the top down and the bottom up.
- [33:15]
C
You know, Ron, innovation is the lifeblood of a cpg because that's what keeps a consumer, a shopper, coming back again and again. Even though it's such a small percent of the category, it gives the consumer the desire to want to learn about a brand and keep coming back to it. We're living in a very different world today where the attention span is five seconds. It's on social media and the large innovation cycles of the biggest CPG brands. 18 months, 36 month planning. Those days are all long gone because trends are coming and going in social media and hours and days and minutes. So how are you advising on faster innovation cycles, stronger retailer collaborations to actually continue to capture these opportunities in store and online?
- [34:00]
A
And obviously innovations agility has been an area of focus for CPG firms for quite some time now. I think there's a lot of lessons learned from the focus on that. And to me, the big thing as we examined this dynamic with clients is really taking a look at, you know, to drive that agility. Where are we cutting corners? And the most basic way I can think about it is if you think about the innovation process overall, it usually starts with insights which lead to idea generation, concept development, product development and then, you know, execution and with oftentimes stage gates in between. The most common mistake that I've seen for clients that are really focused on innovation, agility and speed to market is that CPG manufacturers oftentimes skip that very first step that they jump directly into idea generation for the sake of agility. So to me, to drive incremental growth, insight identification is actually the most important phase of the overall process. So just a reminder from what I said a couple of minutes ago, that insight sits between what is and what could be, which means we're actually helping consumers address their challenges or again, remove friction in their lives. So if we aren't disciplined in terms of identifying the gap between what is and what could be, the risk is that the innovations fail to drive incrementality, just basically cannibalizing ourselves. And that's a very common challenge for consumer products companies. So to me, the TDOT driving incremental growth via innovation isn't about cutting out steps in the process. Rather it's about being more agile in each step of the process itself. So that's what we focus on with our clients when we're talking to them, is really examining each one of those steps and what's happening in those steps, but not eliminating, and particularly not eliminating that very first step. Regarding retailer collaborations, I would say the overall goal is to find win win partnerships. Success really means transforming the relationship between a CPG manufacturers and retailers. So if you think about this, a lot of times this is almost the evolution of this idea of category captains and whatnot and really trying to shift to being more of a trusted advisor with retailers. And that means thinking about things through their lens. So as much as a major CPG manufacturer may want to drive incrementality, where they're really going to win is if they can demonstrate driving incrementality for the retailer as well. So that's why things like premiumization and whatnot are big trends in the industry that can drive incremental dollar growth. But I think the really, really important thing and key lesson there is really understanding how decisions that a CPG manufacturer makes would impact the results for a retailer partner.
- [37:11]
D
So, Ron, I'm going to think back on my career, not the last decade, but actually into the last millennium. I was working at a CPG brand and every four weeks we would gather in the largest conference room, an army of people and we would print out all of our NIQ reports and we would make copies and make distributions. Dropping this account in this person's pile and that account and that reporting primarily focused on dollar sales, unit sales, equivalent volume sales and the corresponding shares. Right. That was what everything was gauged against. So my question to you is this. What are the more modern KPIs that you recommend for measuring the long term impact of strategy consulting engagements in areas like brand health, consumer loyalty and even omnichannel effectiveness?
- [38:11]
A
Yeah, well, first of all, I would say I would not diminish the importance of all those metrics that you just described. Those are universal and whatnot. So not at all suggest, Ron, we'll.
- [38:22]
D
Call them like the RST LNE that they give you right before the final puzz of Jeopardy. I want to know what the other letters are. That's, that's what we're getting at. Right.
- [38:32]
A
You know, the one thing that I, I talk to clients a lot about and I think is a bit underutilized, although I wouldn't necessarily classify this as modern, but is repeat. And really taking a look at repeat and understanding, you know, what it's saying to us, and particularly if we can look at it over the course of time and benchmark it against competition and whatnot. And hand in hand with that is what's the point of entry for, you know, when you have consumers coming into your brand franchise and what's driving that and why are they coming in? And so it's almost like maybe dusting off the TNRs a bit and looking at them. And I think there's a lot of valuable information that actually feeds all the things that you were just talking about. You know, it gives you signals around brand health, gives you signals around loyalty, also gives you some perspective in terms of Omni Channel and its effectiveness overall connected again to removing friction for consumers. So I would say, you know, big, big picture, maybe it's back to the future a little bit, but it's taken a look at those two key things, point of entry and repeat.
- [39:50]
C
On the repeat side, you said quite a bit about why it's important today. Does it mean the data is showing you that brands have kind of moved away from that focus in the recent past?
- [40:01]
A
Yeah, it depends on the brand. But I would say that I have had instances where I talked to some clients where it's like, okay, are you looking at TNRs? Are you looking at repeat and whatnot? And unfortunately have seen some instances where it's like, no, that's not even on our radar. And again, it's, you know, relatively easy to measure and it really, really is insightful overall.
- [40:27]
C
So the my last question for today is around your career in strategy consulting. What lessons do you host? Most valuable, did you have a mentor? And what is, what are those one or two big CPG trends that you're very excited about? On the contrary, you are very worried about.
- [40:44]
A
You know, and again, I know it sounds like a little bit of a broken record, but you know, I started my career in consulting and you know, right out of college. And one of the things that the firm that I worked for really, really emphasized at the time is this idea of building trust. And it's, you know, not just building, but sustaining trust in the organizations that have chosen to partner with you. They can partner with any consulting firm. So the idea is, you know, when they trust you, they're going to come back and really, really value the insights that you, that you're bringing to them. Obviously it's critical given you're giving recommendations that have lasting impact. So it's important. But under that same umbrella, probably one of my biggest concerns as I see and this evolution that we've been talking about for CPG companies in particular, the large ones, is this erosion of trust that leads to been talking about. Younger consumers are more skeptical about the motivations of putting air quotes around this big business in general. And because of the role that CPG products play in their day to day lives, it's a really important issue to address. And it's not just about sophisticated marketing and whatnot, but it's actually the actions that are being taken to build and mature that trust. Now, given that, I would say, you know what I'm excited about when I think about trends. And you know, one of the big trends right now is around health and Wellness and that, you know, that trend is, you know, not just emerging, but is, you know, continuing to evolve. So the obvious benefit to the consumers themselves is that it, you know, provides an opportunity for CPG companies to build trust back with their consumers. But it's got to be done in the right way. And that's where authenticity comes into play. So I would say that that's the big, big thing for me and, like, really, really excited about the clients that I'm working with that are focused on health and wellness right now.
- [42:53]
C
What a terrific conversation. Let me thank our audience for listening to this wonderful episode. Do leave us a rating and review on the Apple Podcast plus platform, Spotify or your favorite listening platform because it informs us how well we're doing. And if you're having the right conversation with the right people, to all of you, sincere thank you from Peter and me. You make the show happen. To all our sponsors, whether at this podcast, our parties, events, hosted dinners, having us a panelist. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Peter, it's been fun as always doing this podcast with you. What was your big takeaway on this episode? Learning from Ron.
- [43:26]
D
Sure sri. Whether it's an enterprise or a challenger brand, they're in brick and mortar, direct to consumer, somewhere in between if they're looking for growth. NIQ Fullview enables the consulting team to assess the market and provide precise recommendations in today's omnichannel world.
- [43:49]
C
How about you, scary one? Actually, Peter, my big takeaway, erosion of trust. Because we open the episode with trust as the number one challenge. I asked Ron what scares you or what excites you, and it came back to trust and authenticity. At the end of the day, with health and wellness being an anchor component of it. I sincerely worry the entire story of the largest CPG brands in the world is built around that crazy love for brand via trust. When a lot of the ingredient profiles, a lot of who they are, the actions that they take are being questioned, it's a very tough battle to actually fight, follow, or to be able to play. And I do sincerely worry about whether they can run that race at scale. And so, Peter, I can't thank you enough for joining me. Ron, thank you, thank you, thank you for bringing your wisdom to the CPG guys.
- [44:41]
A
Thanks for having me. Really, really appreciate it.
- [44:43]
C
That's a wrap of this episode. We will see you soon on another episode of the CPG Guys.
- [44:50]
D
Foreign.
- [45:01]
B
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