Customer First Decisions with Kellanova CCO Carrie Sander

Summary

Podcast Summary: The CPG Guys – "Customer First Decisions with Kellanova CCO Carrie Sander"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The CPG Guys
• Hosts: Peter V.S. Bond & Sri Rajagopalan
• Episode: Customer First Decisions with Kellanova CCO Carrie Sander
• Release Date: March 5, 2025
• Description: Sri Rajagopalan, a CPG & FMCG eCommerce industry icon, and Peter V.S. Bond, a consumer loyalty guru, delve into the intricacies of how brands and retailers engage with consumers both in-store and online. In this episode, they host Carrie Sander, Chief Customer Officer at Kellanova, to discuss customer-first strategies in the evolving retail landscape.

---

1. Introduction to Retail Media Strategy

Peter V.S. Bond opens the episode by emphasizing the rising importance of retail media as a primary channel for brands to engage consumers with measurable performance metrics along the purchase path. He highlights the collaboration between Cornell University and The CPG Guys to launch the inaugural Retail Media Strategy Executive Education Program at Cornell Tech (May 5-8, 2025). This four-day immersive program aims to equip industry leaders with best practices for building effective retail media platforms, leveraging AI-driven campaign design, and fostering robust brand-retailer partnerships ([00:00]).

2. Personal Updates and Philanthropy

Before delving into the main discussion, Carrie Sander shares personal updates, including her recent travels to Japan and Australia. She also underscores the importance of supporting local fire departments in Woodland Hills following significant fire-related challenges in LA. Carrie urges listeners to contribute through local initiatives or organizations like the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund ([03:10]).

3. Introducing Carrie Sander and Kellanova

Peter introduces Carrie Sander, detailing her extensive career at Target and Kellogg Company, culminating in her current role as Chief Customer Officer at Kellanova—a $13 billion snacking powerhouse spun off from Kellogg in October 2023. Kellanova oversees beloved brands such as Pringles, Pop-Tarts, Eggo, and Morningstar Farms ([09:07]).

Notable Quote:

"Kellanova is the snacking side of what we were at Kellogg, and our ambition is to be a focused snacking powerhouse." — Carrie Sander ([09:49])

4. Customer-First Business Strategy

Carrie elaborates on Kellanova's customer-first approach, encapsulated in the acronym SCALE:

• Solving customer problems
• Creating satisfying experiences
• Accelerating capabilities
• Leading with insights and innovation
• Elevating corporate responsibility and ESG commitments ([23:15])

This strategy ensures that customer needs are central to all business decisions, fostering mutual benefits for both Kellanova and its customers.

5. Joint Value Creation (JVC) in CPG

The conversation shifts to Joint Value Creation (JVC), a critical component for successful partnerships between CPG brands and retailers. Carrie outlines the essential elements of JVC:

• Aligned Vision and Objectives: Clear mutual goals and pathways to achieve them.
• Mutual Commitment: Shared dedication to the partnership's success.
• Measures and Milestones: Defined metrics to track progress.
• Agility: Ability to adapt and pivot based on learnings and market changes ([25:44]).

Notable Quote:

"Understanding that mutuality has to be there... if you're not able to provide that, then maybe you're not the right solution for what their need is." — Carrie Sander ([28:37])

6. The Current State of Retail Media Networks (RMNs)

Peter raises a pivotal question about the viability of RMNs beyond giants like Amazon and Walmart, noting that other RMNs collectively command only 15% of retail media dollars. Carrie responds by emphasizing four key areas RMNs must excel in to become strategic investment plans for national brands:

1. Scale: Adequate reach to attract significant brand investment.
2. Brand Protection: Ensuring consistent and resonant brand messaging.
3. Cost of Media: Balancing higher CPMs with effective targeting and reach.
4. Transparent Measurement: Real-time analytics for data-driven decisions ([32:32]).

7. The Role of Data, AI, and Insights in CPG

The discussion delves into the integration of Data Clean Rooms and AI-driven insights as essential tools for building effective audiences and personalizing marketing efforts. Carrie highlights Kellanova's structured process for leveraging data:

• Asking the Right Questions: Foundation for meaningful insights.
• Collaborative Analysis: Cross-functional teamwork to interpret data.
• Execution and Scaling: Implementing insights into market strategies.
• Continuous Measurement and Retooling: Iterative learning and adaptation ([36:10]).

Notable Quote:

"Insights always start with the right question or observation... making sure that we understand all the parts and pieces fit together." — Carrie Sander ([23:15], [36:10])

8. Future Trends and Strategic Focus

Looking ahead, Carrie identifies key trends that will shape the CPG industry in the next three years:

• Scaling of AI and Modeling: Enhancing personalization and value creation.
• Potential Integration with Mars: Kellanova's anticipated partnership to bolster its snacking portfolio.
• Economic and Administrative Changes: Monitoring how new administrations' policies may impact the industry ([38:40]).

She advises focusing on:

• Execution Excellence: Maintaining high standards post-pandemic.
• Critical Thinking and Problem Solving: Adapting to industry consolidations and evolving consumer behaviors.
• Data Analysis and Storytelling: Building compelling narratives around data-driven insights.
• Understanding RMNs: Developing expertise beyond conversion metrics to harness full funnel capabilities ([38:40]).

Notable Quote:

"We have to make sure that we're doing critical thinking and problem solving... understanding that and being able to be agile is critically important." — Carrie Sander ([38:40])

9. Closing Remarks and Call to Action

Peter and Sree express their gratitude to Carrie for her insightful contributions and reiterate the importance of customer-first strategies in driving growth and shareholder value. They encourage listeners to explore more content on cpgguys.com and engage with their community through various channels.

Closing Quote:

"We're looking forward to becoming part of Mars and furthering our journey of being a world snacking powerhouse... and ultimately value creation." — Carrie Sander ([41:12])

---

Key Takeaways:

• Retail Media's Growing Significance: Brands must integrate retail media into their omnichannel strategies to effectively engage consumers.
• Customer-First Strategies: Prioritizing customer needs through structured approaches like SCALE ensures mutual benefits and sustained growth.
• Joint Value Creation: Successful CPG-retailer partnerships hinge on aligned visions, mutual commitments, and adaptable strategies.
• Essential Role of Data and AI: Leveraging advanced data analytics and AI-driven insights is crucial for personalized marketing and effective audience targeting.
• Future Preparedness: Emphasizing execution excellence, critical thinking, and adaptability will equip teams to navigate the evolving CPG landscape.

Notable Quotes:

• "Retail media is rapidly becoming the go-to channel for brands, aiming to engage consumers with measurable performance along the path to purchase." — Peter V.S. Bond ([00:00])
• "Kellanova is not a bystander as an organization; they're taking action." — Host Commentary on Carrie's Philanthropy ([12:24])
• "We do not want to just be a bystander... If those aren't the ones for you, I'm sure you can find your own. But do something." — Peter V.S. Bond on Philanthropy ([22:24])

---

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of customer-first business strategies within the CPG industry, emphasizing the critical role of retail media, data-driven insights, and collaborative partnerships in driving growth and adapting to market challenges.

Transcript

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Retail media is rapidly becoming the go to channel for brands, aiming to engage consumers with measurable performance along the path to purchase. Retailers are increasingly empowering brands to accurately target meaningful audiences based on their longitudinal purchasing behaviors and execute media impressions across on site, off site and in store channels throughout the entire marketing funnel. For brand marketers, effectively incorporating retail media into their marketing budgets is essential for growth in today's omnichannel landscape. To address this critical need, Cornell University has partnered with the CPG Guys, along with leading industry executives and visionaries from around the world to launch the first ever retail Media Strategy Executive Education program. This immersive four day program at Cornell Tech May 5th to the 8th, 2025 brings together industry thought leaders and renowned faculty to share best practices for building compelling retail media platforms. You'll discover how to collaborate on creating best in class tech stacks, measure performance to ensure brands Access the necessary KPIs based on Campaign objectives and establish strong partnerships between brands and retailers. In addition, the program covers optimizing brand strategies using AI driven campaign design at scale to achieve marketing goals. By the end of the Retail Media Strategy program, you'll have gained a deep understanding of the retail media ecosystem and how both brands and retailers can accelerate organizational transformation to thrive in the future of performance marketing. See the link in the digital liner note to this episode to learn more about the Retail Media Strategy Executive Education Program at Cornell Tech May 5th through the 8th, 2025.

[Sree Rajagop]

Hi, I'm Carrie Sander and you are listening to the CPGuys podcast.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Welcome to the CPGuys podcast. Your host, Sree Rajagop and Peter V. S Bond explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in an increasingly digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG Guys. Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. I'm PVSB Co host and co founder. I also serve as head of Industry and Client Engagement at Flywheel, the E Commerce accelerator division of Omnicom. Joining me in the hosting duties for today's episode is of course my co founder of this growing media platform. He's the Chief Revenue Officer at Think Blue Consulting. He's the patriarch of the Raj family media empire which includes his performing artist daughters Rhea and Lara and his wife Kavita, who co hosts the iHeartRadio podcast Lights Camera Conversation. Most recently he served as the Chief Customer Officer of some little company. What's its name? Oh yeah, General Mills. He is the man known as Sri Sri. How go your travels so far for this year? And of course I'm happy to say that you're home Safe in LA after a couple of crazy weeks. But this year, what in the last month you've been to Japan and Australia. What's. What's next Vegas? You're a busy man.

[Carrie Sander]

Most recently Peter, I was serving Engine 54 Ladder Company here in Woodland Hills Fire department and my humble plea to those listening to the show, we have a large audience, LA literally was under fire, hasn't recovered, people have lost homes. It is not easy to drive by Santa Monica, Malibu Beach, Malibu Canyon where I live. It is just not a good situation. Whatever little bit you can do to help, please do that. Locals drive by, visit your local fire departments, drop off food, clothing. They're in real need of help assistance. The Red Cross has a whole LA based fire based opportunity to give. Please do that, do your own vetting but please help Louisiana literally needs the help at this point. That said, thank you Peter. Pleasure doing this with you week over week. Australia, you know, one week we're sitting here in Australia calling the New Year's on the Darling harbor. Going to the Sydney Cricket Ground to actually make a dream come true of mine of going to the Don Bradman stand. The greatest cricketer ever to have existed. Unfortunately Peter, for you, a little bit of learning here, second largest sport after soccer. So that's more importantly, you know we went from that a week later Wednesday to evacuating our home which was like mind boggling. Right. All that said, I couldn't go to nrf but I am coming close to you in New York next week. We're at Cagney. We're not going to FMI Conscious Choice this year but we'll be at Cagney, will be at the Commerce Media Brand Summit. Will be of course then ShopDog Q1 has us on our feet quite a bit.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Cagney is going to be fun. Sree. This is the first time we're going together. I love that conference. It's like this little known one. It's so wonkish. It's where all the analysts go. It's frankly it's a boondoggle for all the analysts. They go with their families and just sit on the beach and go to maybe three or four of the presentations by the cpgs. But we love it because we get to meet all these great people.

[Carrie Sander]

Look, this is an important year Peter, for I think the conversations, if they revolve around GLP is the reason why volume is down. We've got a problem. Right. I think my question is more around. It's been. I still remember the day, March 17, 2023. I've said it about 30 times on the show. Shouldn't be a surprise. That's when volume trends change. SNAP dried up, EBT dried up, government assistance dried up. And it's been on a downward spiral since then because there's no more inflation really to take in the ecosystem. Right. Like it's fine. There may be real inflation still in the system, but CPGs are having a tough, tough time actually reconciling for that in pricing. Right. So what do you do? Innovation. You can lean on innovation, you can lean on assortment optimization. Those are the sort of questions I'm really looking for answers for. And then of course, media is a whole different world. I'm not going to use the word retail media because there's a lot of lost households upper funnel marketing like houses, cpg or for that matter, retail focused on upper funnel marketing to bring back households.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Well, you know Sri, what I like to do at the end of every day of Cagny is I gather up all the investor presentations that the presenters had made that day. I curate it for digitally influenced indicating slides and I curate that and put it together in a summary document. A lot of people like to. Yep.

[Carrie Sander]

I do want to mention Peter, these are the publicly made available ones at Cagney. You have to be a Cagney. Of course. But we'll put our own spin on it.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Yeah, we will. And all the everything we we share will be do content that these companies have have posted that day on their investors section of their website. So anyhow, sri, thanks again for joining me. Before we introduce our special guest, a few housekeeping details. Please make sure you are subscribing to our podcast on your favorite platform, Apple, Spotify, whatever by clicking the follow button. And particularly if you do listen to us on Apple or Spotify, please leave us a rating. Why? Because it helps feed the algorithm that makes us more discoverable by other industry contemporaries. While you do, please leave us a review. That way we can tailor the content to your interests. Make sure to include our sister podcast, the ever exploding and growing FMCG guys with Daniel over in Europe, and of course CBG scoop with Risa and Jennifer that just crossed 50 episodes. Links to our cast, our sister cast, the social media profiles of all the Raj family players. Just check out the digital liner notes of this episode. Sri, we need to add the social media link for your three cats as well, who have more Instagram followers than we do. No, I'm not. I don't begrudge that. No, not at all. All right, with the housekeeping details done. Let's get to our special guest today. I met her last summer when she appeared as the keynote speaker in New York City at the Cornell University Omnichannel Leadership Program. She spoke about customer first business strategy in a number of different aspects. She started her career out of Indiana University at Target, where she spent two years before joining the Kellogg company, where she's progressed through 11 roles. But you can't hold a job. Come on. Before the company split into two. Back in 2023, she joined Kellanova, the rebranded snacking division, where she has since held the role of chief customer officer. I guess that's an okay job to have. And she also apparently knows a lot about a baseball analogy. So we're gonna test her during this conversation. We're gonna work some in there. Cause you know, Sheree and I talk a little bit about baseball here. Here to tell us about how Kellanova is winning through a customer first business approach is the aforementioned chief customer officer at Kellanova. Please join Sree and me in welcoming to the podcast Carrie Sander. Carrie, greetings. How you doing?

[Sree Rajagop]

Hey, Peter. Hey, Sree. Good to see and hear you guys. It's great to be here. Thanks for the opportunity to chat and.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Thank you for we. I don't look like I'm all alone here, right? Because I do that. And Sree makes fun of me. I'm like, see, Sree, there are other people who think headphones are cool. Thank you.

[Sree Rajagop]

That is what all the cool kids are doing.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

That's what the cool kids are doing. I like that. Hey, Carrie, for our listeners, we'd love for you to start before we get to the questions and remind people who Kalanova is because it's a new company, but an old company. And it would be good for you to talk about that in context of the brands and what you're charged with doing there.

[Sree Rajagop]

Yeah, absolutely. So what it is, what it isn't. Maybe we could start with that. But Kalanova is a 13, not a.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

University outside of Philadelphia on the Main Line. That's a different nova. That's a Villanova.

[Sree Rajagop]

I think that is exactly right. Exactly. And also not Kellogg at Northwestern. So two separate things. But we are a 13 billion dol. Our business with a long history over 117 years. When you look back at what we were, which was the Kellogg Company, but we are a new company that spun from Kellogg, as you know, in October of 2023. So our. Our cereal business in North America split into a W.K. kellogg company. And we are the snacking side of it that remains at Kellanova. So our ambition is to be a focused snacking powerhouse, and we're certainly well on our way as you look at some of the differentiated brands that we have, you know, like a Cheez It, Pringles, Eggo Pop Tarts, rkt, which is Rice Krispie treats for those of you who don't work with Kellogg all the time, and our Morningstar Farms products, to name a few.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Well, I can tell you this. If I don't wake up my daughter with one of the Madagascar vanilla Eggo waffles in the morning, it's not a good day. In the Bond household, there is one thing she requires, and that is it. As long as I do that, I've got a happy child ready to go to school. So thank you.

[Sree Rajagop]

You are a good dad. Well played.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

I do my best. I learn, you know, feed the volcano goddess when she wakes up. So, for interested listeners want to learn more about Carrie and Kalinova, guess what? You don't have to go searching for that online. Just toggle over to the digital liner notes of this podcast episode. We have hyperlinks, their LinkedIn profile and their corporate website. Right. Makes it real easy so that way you can learn and browse while you're listening to our harmonious voices. During this conversation, I do want to.

[Sree Rajagop]

Just add one thing to some of sri's opening comments. And one thing that we are very proud of at Kellanova and our heritage at Kellogg before is our commitment to better days and our better days promise. And our hearts are certainly going out for all those that are impacted in California. I know we are sending a lot of food in the area to do our part, but certainly devastating. And we're thinking about everyone in the region.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Thank you so much for that, Carrie. And I should also mention Sree talked about finding worthy charities. We've put in the digital liner notes. This episode links to both the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund and to the Los Angeles City Firefighters Benevolent association so that you can make some contributions if you see fit. We think it's a worthwhile cause, but if those aren't the ones for you, I'm sure you can find your own. But do something. That's what we say. Don't just be a bystander. Thank you for expressing that Kellanova is not a bystander as an organization, that they're taking action there. All right, so let's get down to business. All right, you're stepping up to the plate. It's the top of the. Dig in, Carrie. Dig in. Because a Fastball is coming your way any second now. See, like that isn't that good. We're already on top. Just remember, Carrie, you can strike out two thirds of the time and still make the hall of Fame. Right? Isn't that great? Those are great odds. When I, when you think about it, everyone's like, come on. Like, that's a great deal. All right, so Carrie, let's talk a little bit about your background. You spent almost the entirety of your professional career with the same company. I'd love to hear about some specific experiences, roles you had there that were poignant in preparing you for your current remit as the Chief Customer officer. Because we always, at some point, we can always remember particular mentors or particular jobs that we were challenged with that really, really helped us develop our skills. Would like to know what those were from your perspective.

[Sree Rajagop]

Yeah, we'll go back to the baseball analogy here, but you have to assume every pitch is a fastball. Right. And you make adjustments from there. And, and I think as I look over my career, a lot of, a lot of ebbs and flows, the 11 different roles, a lot of adjustments and new learnings through my career, all, all kind of culminating into the last two assignments that I've had with Kellogg's. But if I, if I break it up into, you know, themes, if you will. Right. So just starting with the customer side and the people management side. I started my journey with then Kellogg company as a market manager and I was traveling all the highways and byways of Kentucky. So a lot of MapQuest back in the day before we had GPS, a lot of getting lost and, and not knowing where I was and calling on all of the different accounts that were there for our away from home division. Right. So a very different side of, of the business, but certainly gave me an appreciation for the day to day grind of sales and then from there moved on to roles of increasing responsibility and bigger teams and moved into our retail side of the business. About 12 years into my career, I've also had roles in analytics and process. Right. So that's certainly an integral part as we think about today's driven selling. Right. Everything is really fact based and making sure that we're doing the right things with the data that we have and understanding the need sets that are out there. And that certainly prepared me well for where we're going in the industry and then marketing and operations opportunities. Having the opportunity to serve as our general manager of our portable wholesome snacks business, which is the brands like Pop Tarts, Nutri, Grain Bars, Special K and Rice Krispies Treats and having the full accountability of the brand plans, the strategy, operations, P and L. So when you think about all of those things, right. They give you a good appreciation and a well rounded view of kind of playing the orchestra, as I call it. Right. So making sure that you understand all the parts and pieces fit together in order to bring that forward in creating solutions for customers and consumers. But let's be clear, a lot of that comes to life with the talented team that I have the privilege of working with every day and partnering with them so we can make things happen in the market.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

That's great. Before I hand it to SRI I'll just say as you think about a well rounded experience in a career, even though you don't do supply chain, you have to understand the core components of what it does. Because if your product doesn't make it to your customer shelves or their distribution center, you're the one getting the phone call. Right. So knowing how all these things work and being interdisciplinary is critically important. I think you would concur as well. SRI s Absolutely.

[Carrie Sander]

First of all, Caddy, pleasure to meet you in person. Welcome to the show. He threw the fastball. Looks like I've been assigned the knuckleball, bird ball sinker. I've got all of those in the next question. I'll start off by saying again, welcome. And you know that until, you know, late last year I was in your role at a primary competitor to Kellanova General Mills. I have the fortune or luxury now being part of the Raj Media family work that we do and part of CPG guys. But I would love for you to share with our audience what you most love about the CCA role, which in the last 18 months is obviously the hot seat given how the industry is progressing. And then what are those major challenges in today's what I would say 100% digitally influenced, yet 80% store bought omnichannel world post pandemic.

[Sree Rajagop]

Well, Sree, that is a meaty question and we will have to definitely compare some notes on our roles. I think you were coming out of your role as I was going into my role, so we didn't have to go head to head in the marketplace. But certainly I'm sure you have lots of thoughts on what that looks like. It's an incredible job, right? As you can attest to, it's very exciting. No two days are the same. So I think when you ask what do you love about it? For me, the pace and the change, which is what I love. But as I Mentioned, you know, talking through Kellanova, we've been on a journey of shaping a growth portfolio for a while. So just taking a step back and thinking about that and our industry. Right. You know for, for Kellanova, we, we had a pringles acquisition in 2012, RXBAR in late 17. We, we merged with Keebler back in 2001 right before I joined the company. And then we divested some of that business in, in 2019 with the cookies divestiture, changed our route to market in 2017 and then we just recently spun our cereal business. So again just thinking through the pace of change that you go through in any role really. But certainly a lot of things across the industry that are happening. It's not completely unique to Kellanova. So I think that's what I love about it. But it's also some of the things that can bring challenges of course as well. And you know, on your comments around the, the media and the retail media and the Omni environment and all those types of things, you think about retail media which hopefully will dive a bit deeper into that. But it's on pace to overtake traditional TV spend this year. So just wrapping your head around what that's going to mean as we move forward. How is AI really going to change the way in which we work and you know, tailored loyalty programs and wanting to have scale but personalization and all the things that that means. So I love that about the job. You know, I love representing the company and the team and, and working with our customers to find solutions to navigate all that. But certainly a lot of challenges with the economy and demand as you mentioned it is, you know, forcing us all to work harder to earn, earn the shoppers dollars as we navigate.

[Carrie Sander]

And I know we are 10, 11 days away from FMI Midwinter. I know this is going to be one of those most interesting midwinters again given the shape of the economy, you know, administration change. So we wish you the best for those three days of, what is it, 31 meetings and three dinners. So we wish you all the best and a lot of energy for that week.

[Sree Rajagop]

That is right. It will be a great couple of days that we're down there. But those are always productive sessions but a lot of things to cover changing consumer behavior, what's happening with the economy, what's happening with gaining people's mind space, share of attention in a very crowded marketplace. So a lot to uncover sri.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

When it comes to the answer of your question by Carrie, I'm going to give her a ground rule double I thought that was pretty solid. But I want to mention one thing because you rattle off a whole bunch of things that you had to deal with over. And you mentioned one thing that is in no way small or insignificant. You mentioned you changed your route to market. That is a big deal. When you go from warehouse to DSD or DSD to whatever it is, that is a fundamental change in how you do and to navigate that successfully and is no small feat. So I want to. That's the home run part of the answer there. You kind of. No one saw it. And then boom. Freddie Freeman steps up to the plate and he hits the grand slam. Sree. Sorry they had to do that. He doesn't like me.

[Sree Rajagop]

That's pretty painful.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

He was in the stadium when it happened. I'm not going to talk about it anymore.

[Carrie Sander]

I went to all. At this point, I'll remind our audience, more importantly, don't really care what Peter thinks because he seems to take the analogy of Tom Brady is not the goat. Yankees are the goat.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Carrie, enough. Sri. I'm going to put you on mute. So this is what I can do. I can just hit his mute button. It's awesome. Kerry, don't tempt me. Don't play with me. All right. So, Carrie, when I first met you, you were talking at Cornell about Kellanova operating with a customer first mentality. I'd love to hear from you. What are the core objectives or radmi? First of all, what are the core objectives in a customer first approach? And how do you keep your customers at the center of your key business decisions?

[Sree Rajagop]

Yeah. Like we talked at Cornell and what I always tell my team and it's really about selling is not about convincing. Right. It is about providing solutions and understanding what makes sense based off the needs that are out there from our customers and our consumers. Right. So it has to be able to live outside of our four walls for it to make sense. So just being grounded in that allows us to keep the customer front and center of what we're doing and, you know, driving that forward. And of course, there has to be mutual benefit there. But that's, that's, that's really the mantra. We use an acronym that I call scale. So really it's around solving customer problems, creating experiences that satisfy, accelerating our capabilities to keep pace, leading with our insights and innovation, making sure that we're bringing things that are truly solving a need, and then elevating our corporate responsibility and our ESG commitments. So those are kind of the key highlights of what we try to live by. To keep the customer front and center.

[Carrie Sander]

How awesome is that? I love that you have the acronym scale because for sales teams, nothing better than being that crystal clear about your expectations. And then when working with marketing, much easier way to actually look for the right set of investments to grow the business. So I get the long ball question suitably. Yankees highest number of home runs in the history of baseball. So while I'm going to use the word jbp, what I really mean is JVC joint value creation. But joint value creation is a key component of how CPG brands need to go to market with important retail partners. What do you feel are the elements of a successful jvc, especially since it is truly joint value creation as opposed to just a business plan, which is like very yesterday. What would you call out? And then as an industry, have we got the plot yet? Especially when it comes to, for the first time in history with the availability of data. You mentioned AI briefly, loyalty and LTV is actually a metric that's fathomable. And then of course this crazy thing called retail media.

[Sree Rajagop]

Yeah, I, I think the JBP JVC elements are, you know, to, to your point, I think one is a lot more into the tactics and one is more longer term. Right. And I, I think the, the key elements and there's some synergies between the two is really first and foremost having an aligned vision and objective on what you're trying to accomplish and how do you get there together. You know, so where, where are you going? Mutual commitment, of course, measures and milestones and having agility. Right. Because it's great to have plan A, but as we all know, you need to have a plan B, C and D as well and have the commitment of understanding that, you know, it's a learning journey that we're on. You're not going to have everything figured out, but really understanding and taking those learnings back and quickly adapting and retooling is where you start to really unlock the value. So you know, we do have a lot of JBP JVC type partnerships across our customer base. We have long term discussions as well around what we call future of food sessions. So really talking through three years and beyond, kind of the ideation of the power of what if and what things do we want to try to understand, test and learn together, which can unlock a lot of value as far as supply chain innovation and those types of things. So you know, hopefully that answers the question on kind of the key elements and what that looks like as far as the, you know, incorporation of retail media and ultimately the journey that we're on there, I think that's a critical component. Again, as I mentioned, you know, you're not going to have everything figured out, but we have to be able to learn together and be transparent and truthful about what we're looking for to move things forward as it relates to, you know, to retail media and retail media investments and what that can unlock, you know, and in your comments, a lot of that is about the top, you know, the upper funnel pieces, not just looking at it from a conversion standpoint.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Before I get to my question, I just want to ask one thing. Correct me if I'm wrong. Just because it's a large customer and just because they have a formal JBP program, that doesn't mean you're going to do it. There has to be joint value creation in it. Like there are times when you have to consider, do I walk away from that? The investment advantage that I get relative to what I'm, what I'm asked to invest against, it has to be joint value, right?

[Sree Rajagop]

Absolutely. I think that mutual benefit has to be there. And I think that again, comes back into the transparency of what are the objectives, what are you trying to accomplish, what are they trying to accomplish, and how do you hopefully get there for mutual benefit? And if you're not able to provide that, then maybe you're not the right solution for what their need is. And there are other things that are going to come up where you are the solution. So I think it's being able to work through those details and absolutely mutuality has to be there.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

All right, let me remind our audience that today SRI and I have the distinct pleasure and privilege of speaking with Carrie Sanders. She is the chief Customer officer at Kellanova. All right, we talked a little bit about retail media. So let's talk a lot about retail media in this question, right? This is where this is a big deal, right? Because virtually all of your strategic retail customers have launched retail media platforms in the last few years. With the exception of Amazon and Walmart, these are largely still managed by CPG brands at the trade level, the shopper, marketing team, or someone in that type of a position. So I guess my question from a philosophical standpoint is what still needs to be true before any of these other. Because we saw a number that says 77 cents of every retail media dollar a brand spends goes to Amazon, 7% goes to Walmart, which means the other 60 RMNs are sharing 15%. Right. So I guess my question is what needs to be true before any of those other 60 RMNs can make it into the strategic investment plan for national brands. Is it about scale? Is it about full funnel capabilities? Is it about transparent measurement? Like what is it? I would really love to hear your thoughts on what it's going to take for those to be more than just a reallocation of trade funds. Because if that's all it is, then whoever dreamt up the idea of retail media network and pitched it to these, to the leaders at these retailers did them an injustice because it's not incremental to them. And in fact, when they have to start sharing some of that investment with tech stack partners like the trade desk and what have you, it's actually detrimental. So I'd really love your thoughts on what's going to make it for these people at the retail media networks to actually see the promise that they pitch their leadership on.

[Sree Rajagop]

Yeah, no, it's a great question. It's a fair question. I think, you know, the retail media journey has been one that I think the whole industry has been on and to your point, some have made great strides in their capabilities and their reach and others still have some opportunities there. And I think overall, as we're looking at it from a manufacturing lens, or at least from a Kellonova lens, we're seeing it more than than what we historically have, which is a conversion platform. Right. So really having it more akin to a national media platform and upper funnel opportunities. But when it comes to the investment piece, to answer your question, what's needed? You know, we look at basically four key areas beyond the scale. Right. Scale is important. I'm not going to.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Scale is kind of like the ba. If you don't have scale, that kind of to some degree diminishes the likelihood that you're going to get the attention.

[Sree Rajagop]

Absolutely. I mean, scale is kind of a.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Baseline, but it takes just as much, much effort to execute a campaign on a platform that covers 300 omnichannel stores as it does for one that covers 3,000. There's no marginal increase in effort. It's pretty much the same.

[Sree Rajagop]

Absolutely. But as we look at across those four things, brand protection is a big one for us. Ensuring that our message is consistent and resonates with our core values and is served in the right environments that we would expect with our brand image. Another one is cost of media. We know that cost effectiveness is obviously a critical factor and CPMs and retail media is higher than national media. But we also recognize that there's targeting and more effective reach. So when we, you know, conduct A cost benefit analysis to understand what's the long term value of that investment and what makes sense audience capabilities, you know, of targeting. So making sure that we're very clear on that with the data sources that are leveraged for that audience targeting and making sure that we manage the frequency so that we avoid overexposure with those audiences and then making sure that we have good visibility to measurement and have that in real time so that we can do the right analytics to understand what our investment is getting and make the right data driven decisions.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Can I ask you one, follow up on that? And we talked about data driven decisions. Do you see clean rooms like Amazon Marketing, Cloud and others being almost a requirement at this point or moving in that direction so that you can make meaningful use of building audiences. Is that something that you look for as an element of your decision making factor?

[Sree Rajagop]

Absolutely, that is absolutely something that the teams are staying well connected and giving that feedback. I think some of the other things that we're working through and we actually just had this conversation at CES around a capability scorecard that kind of outlines, here's what we're looking at, here's their priorities and how are we assessing so that we can have that transparent conversation.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

And I should make mention we wanna thank the Kellanova team for showing up on force to the CPG guys kickoff party for CES on Monday. While we were there on the 6th. They were there, they were proud and we were so happy to have them join us. Claire and Nicole and Joe and everybody else. They were, they were there and we appreciated it.

[Carrie Sander]

I get to give you the inside the park home run question, which is a direct follow up, Right. If I roll back five years in history as chief customer officers, you and I would never be having the discussion about audience acquisition, target marketing, upper funnel marketing. But here we are in that world now where these things have really kind of come together. Like you cannot be a salesperson today without understanding the full funnel. And you know, conversely, you can't be in marketing or a brand marketing marketer or brand equity steward without understanding how the retail component works, whether it's online, offline, being error with that in the background. Kerry, another interesting area that I think has become very prominent with the mass availability of data as a commodity. Words like clean rooms, AI. I'm not referring to wipes, clean rooms and brooms, but I'm actually referring to combining data with PIDs in that sort of scenario. Talk to us about insights, how that part of the equation works at Kellanova. You know, the truth of the situation is a new. An innovation is a story. At the end of the day, it's a story for retail, but it's also a story for the consumer and they got to want the product. So how does it all come together at Kellanova from an insights perspective?

[Sree Rajagop]

Well, as you can imagine, it is a structured process that we follow. But insights always start with the right question or observation, right? Why is this the way it is? Or how might we make things better, what have you? So we really start with asking questions and that comes with a lot of collaboration with our stakeholders, you know, customers, consumers, as well as just our own observations through the data. And then from there we invest and in our own proprietary studies and understand what comes back, what unmet needs are there, pain points or motivators or what have you, social listening and trends and a lot of pieces of information that we pull together in our own proprietary studies. And then from that we bring cross functional groups back together and collaborate on what we've learned. What does that mean? And then we execute and scale it and ultimately we work with our customers along the way so that we're thinking through and really looking at every angle. But you know, finally when we bring it to market, we measure, we learn and then we retool and do it again. So we do that with all of our product launches. And I think we do it beyond just product, right. Whether it's, you know, like I mentioned in my earlier comments, innovation has a lot of legs. If you think about route to market, if you think about packaging, if you think about supply chain efficiencies and how we can make things better and more efficient. So we do quite a bit with insights across the whole path to purchase sri.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Are you like me? Do you get the feeling that this is in Carrie's DNA, like this industry that we're in? You and I talk about this all the time, right? There are practitioners and then there are players. Like she knows this stuff. I love this. This is a really great conversation. My last question, Shree will have one to close us out. Mine is to that end, what are you looking at in the industry that are trends or actions that are taking place, that are focused on, you think you can use to focus on for building the skills and the capabilities of your team? What do you want them to really know going into, you know, the next couple of years?

[Sree Rajagop]

There's a lot, there's a lot that's happening and a lot to know. And you know, as Sree said, who would have thought we'd be talking about some of these things as salespeople five, ten years ago. So I think to me, there's a couple of things, though, that may not be as exciting or cutting edge, but one thing I think our industry is grappling with is kind of returning to that pre pandemic discipline of executing with excellence and partnership. And I think our retailers see it. I think we see it. You know, a lot happened over the pandemic, and now it's. It's kind of reworking ourselves back to some of those. Those elements. So I'd say that's still first and foremost. Number rule number one, we got to make sure that we're doing that. You know, critical thinking and problem solving is. Is probably the second one. And that's a broad statement. Right. If you think about all the evolution of what's happening and the consolidation of the industry and the peer group for that matter, understanding that and thinking through what that can mean and being able to be agile is critically important. So we have a lot of focus on that. And then ultimately thinking through how you analyze data, understand, know what the right questions are to ask, and then build out a compelling story around that. Right. And communicating that data with influence. So those are probably some key ones. And then of course, gaining the expertise on things like retail media networks and at least a working knowledge of what that is beyond just the conversion of Omni Channel. Right. So I think those are our critical ones. I know we're working with you guys on a retail media strategy course at Cornel, and the team is really excited about that. So that will be coming up here pretty soon as well.

[Carrie Sander]

Thank you for that, Kerry. So the CPG guys looks forward to engaging with you and other members of Kellanova on the retail media programming at Cornell Tech in May. But I'll wrap this up by a question we'd like to ask, which we usually see is looking fast forward and that is, you know, you look at the next, let's say three years. What's on your mind? How would you coach somebody what to focus on somebody coming new into the sales teams? Then as you talk to retailers, what are you asking from them if you look three years out?

[Sree Rajagop]

Yeah, that's a good question. I think for me personally and for those of us at Kellanova, we certainly can have a lot to look forward to over these next three years, most likely becoming a part of Mars and furthering our journey of being a world snacking powerhouse. So that's something that's probably a bit unique for us, but I think there's some pretty amazing complementary things that can come from that. So we're looking forward to it from an industry perspective. I think we didn't talk a lot about, but I do think one that will be probably very disruptive and in a good way is this continued scaling of AI and modeling so that we have more robust insights, personalization and ultimately value creation. Right. It'll be interesting to understand where that value creation pools and what, what, what, what happens with that. I think we're still in our infancy as it relates to that, but I do think that there's a lot of upside and opportunity for us to be cognizant of in the next one to three years. I think, you know, a lot will be remains to be seen on what the new administration is going to be bringing forward and what that means for our industry. So I think that'll be an interesting thing to watch and play out over the next couple of years as well. But all in all, I'm excited to be part of a great team and representing great people and great brands and playing my part to allow them to reach their full potential and solve things for our customers.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

Let me remind the audience, please visit cpguys.com you can find all of our content. It's easily filterable by your favorite topic like retail, media, loyalty, ugc, you name it, we probably have a category for it. It makes it easier for you to find them. And if you think your company has some thought leadership to contribute to this ongoing community discussion, why don't you drop us an [e-mail] maybe you can join us for a future episode of the podcast. And don't forget to drop us a rating on Apple, Spotify and even on cpguys.com and of course we desperately want to thank our 35,000 loyal followers on LinkedIn who join us and trust us to both educate and entertain them. Carrie, I cannot already think. I'm already thinking about all the incredibly delicious Kellanova snacks that are gonna be made just a little bit more delicious by infusing some M&M's into them. So you opened the door. I'm gonna mention it. But in any event, we wanna thank you for joining us today and sharing your insights about how Kellanova is driving shareholder value through a customer first approach to your business activities. Carrie, thank you.

[Sree Rajagop]

Thank you Peter. Thanks sri. It's great to spend time with you guys. Thanks so much.

[Carrie Sander]

Gary, thank you for joining us on the show. It was a pleasure. We wish you much luck and we look for this industry has given Peter and me so much. The best outcomes we can see in this industry is return to volume growth. You certainly do your part, and we're thankful for that.

[Peter V. S. Bond]

The content in this podcast episode is provided for general informational purposes only. By listening to our episode, you understand that no information contained in this episode should be construed as advice from CPGuys LLC or the individual author, hosts, or guests, nor is it intended to be a substitute for research on any subject matter. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by CPG Guys, llc. The views expressed by guests are their own, and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. The views expressed by CPTGuys LLC do not represent the views of their employers or the entity they represent. CPTGuys LLC expressly disclaims any and all liability or responsibility for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential, or other damages arising out of any individual's use of, reference to, or inability to use this podcast or the information we present in this podcast.