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- [00:00]
A
Tracy.
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B
Hi, I'm Tracy Warner Halima and I'm the CEO of Super Gut. And you're listening to the CPG Guys Podcast.
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C
Welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. Your host, Shree Rajagopelin and Peter V. S Bond explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in an increasingly digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG Guys.
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Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys. I'm of course Sri, your co host and also CRO and co founder of Think Blue Consulting, your trusted partner in your omnichannel development journey. Get in touch with me at Shree at ThinkBlueConsulting co. Please do listen to my older daughter's music at www.rearaj.com and follow Lara Raj. My younger daughter is a member of the world's fastest growing global girls group, Cat Sign, a winner of an MTV vma. Both are on tour mid November to mid December and I'm pretty much going to be at all the largest cities in America. Along with Mama Raj. The Raj fam is on the move. And I'm joined today by my co host and co founder, pvsb, who also moonlights his head of industry and client engagement at Flywheel, who has not stopped smiling for a certain reason since last week, Game seven. He's also head of industry and client engagement at Flywheel, the commerce acceleration division of Omnicom. Go ahead, get it out of your chest. Gloat away to glory number nine. I always get it wrong. I got it right.
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C
Got it right this time. Sri. 9th, 9th World Series in. We're going next year. We're going for the three peat. Sri.
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That's what. Oh, Danny said. Did you see his.
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C
I saw. I saw him. But you know what Sri? I'm actually. That's kind of like yesterday's news. You know what I'm really excited about?
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World Baseball Classic.
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C
Well, no, no, no, no, before that. Actually in two weeks. In two weeks. A very popular girls K pop group is coming to Boston and my, my daughter Nadia is very excited about going and seeing Lara and Katzai on stage at the, at the. The Warner Music Studio. Pardon me, the Warner Music center at Fenway. So it's going to be a big day for the Bond household. Can't wait for this. Very exciting.
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A
I won't be able to make that one, Peter, as I'm with the older daughter on her.
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C
I got you covered, man.
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You got me covered. Thank you. Peter, make sure you're subscribing to a podcast on your preferred listening platform where you can get the latest episodes and even go back to consume some of the 535 plus episodes we've already published. So let's get to our episode today. Tracy Warner Hala is a dynamic leader and entrepreneur currently serving as the Chief Executive Officer and the board member of the fastest growing health and wellness brand Super Gut. In this role, she is responsible for steering strategic initiatives and overseeing day to day ops. The fresh young brand Super Gut has leveraged the latest trends in GLP1, which is a huge reason why I wanted to do this episode. As well as Fiber achieving triple digit growth last year and doubling its retail distribution footprint. Before of course joining Supergard, Tracy spent nearly a decade at Vital Proteins where she rose to the position as CEO. She expertly managed daily business operations and developed growth strategies for the iconic collagen based brand, gutting it towards a strategic exit to none other than Nestle health science in 2021, whose CCO of course has been on the show Viral Shah following another year of impressive triple digit growth. Indeed, she was also instrumental in the authentic engagement and meaningful partnership with Jennifer Aniston, who served as the company's Chief Creative Officer. Please join us in welcoming Tracey to the pocket. Tracy, how you doing out there from Chicago?
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I'm great, Sri. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
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You know why I love Chicago? There's one reason. Deep dish pizza, which Peter calls a tourist trap. Are deep dish pizzas a thing or no tree?
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C
There's New Haven Pizza and there's not exactly.
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A
No, no, I want a Chicago pizza.
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C
I know what you want. You want that big. You want that big cornmeal pie that's got.
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It's not cornmeal, it's wheat flour with rich tomato sauce. Tracy, please pass judgment.
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I'm not a fan of deep dish pizza. Sorry.
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C
There we go. No Lou Malnati's on this block. No, thank you, Giordano's.
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A
Any visit to Chicago is incomplete without the spinach. Stuffed Giordano's Pizza. Anyway, we're excited to have you on the podcast. We'll include in the digital show notes of this episode, links to your LinkedIn profile, and of course, of Supergod. So let's get going. I'll kick it off first with your career journey. So what inspired you to join supergod and then lead its next phase of growth? Given your background coming from Vital Proteins, where you were thriving and the brand was thriving, you're a Super exit. And how do you define Super Gut's mission and what? Owning. As you said before, owning the gut.
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Health category Means well, so after a decade at Vital Proteins, I mean, obviously when I joined at the inception, I was part of the founding team, we had no revenue and we were actually laying epoxy on a thousand square foot warehouse ourselves in Glenview, Illinois. So that was kind of the very humble beginnings of Vital Proteins. And you know, obviously we, we did many things right along the way, we did many things wrong along the way. And you know, there were all of these different inflection points of growth culminating with, I shouldn't even say culminating because like one of the mid level points was transitioning the company to Nestle health science in 2020 and in the middle of the pandemic, the pandemic was actually really good for Vital Proteins. We had our own manufacturing facility here outside of Chicago, right next to o'. Hare. And in a world where supply chain was kind of crumbling all around us and the Suez Canal dilemma and everything else that happened in 2021, we owned our own manufacturing facility. So we had the ability to continue production whenever and, and if we wanted to produce seven days a week, we could. And so there were a lot of competitors in the space that were not able to get product out of their comands and maybe they had a very complex formula. We had one single ingredient. So that really was a game changer for us because we didn't have to wait for Madagascar Vanilla Bean to come from Madagascar. So obviously when some of our competitors started to say, hey, we can't deliver product for that fence, which is, you know, the Costco kind of end cap is called the fence. When you walk straight into the Costco warehouse, we can give you the fence position for free. Normally having significant presence at Costco costs you anywhere between a half a million and a million bucks as a brand. So we really leaned into those opportunities and we went to all of our retailers and ensured that we were double and triple facing. So we were able to go from. So we ended 2020 at 242 million and we ended 21 at 505 million. So obviously to grow double digits as a young brand isn't that hard. To grow double digits as a significant brand is very hard. And it wasn't really what Nestle had anticipated. I think they were modeling, you know, a 40% year on year growth. So, you know, that was a big high mark of the tenure at Vital Proteins. Obviously, you know, we integrated into Nestle Health Science. I left in 2023. We were about 750 million in revenue then. And I took some much needed time off. And my thought Was I was going to go and do growth capital because I really loved the aspect of looking at brands, giving coaching to founders, really talking through the strategic, you know, brand building process with other other younger brands. And we looked at a lot of brands to potentially invest in. And one brand that really stood out for us out of probably 20 that we looked at in the supplement and wellness space was Super Gut. And you know, we like the fact that it was kind of early, early innings if you will, since we were referencing the World Series on fiber and a little more well known kind of buzz around GLP1. So we like the category dynamics associated with it. We loved the name Super Gut. It's one of those iconic names in our space. So my partner and I butter, who also invested in vital proteins way back when. So full Frame Growth Partners is the growth capital firm that he founded and that I'm a operating partner in. So we decided to go all in in Super Gut. And after speaking with the lead investor and kind of the team, they said, we want you to operate the organization as a professional operator. So that was. Those conversations happened about a year ago and I stepped into the role full time about February 1st. And I think for me, you know, I was in my 40s during vital proteins and you know, Vital Proteins was all about really building health and wellness, at least on the, on the surface level. From an exterior point of view, it was hair, skin, nails, it was about looking your best. And as I entered my 50s, I, I was having a lot of like personal health issues myself. Adrenal fatigue, some issues with Hashimoto's and autoimmune disease. And I realized that I wasn't feeling my best. So for me this is very personal because I feel like in this journey it's all about inner health and when I think about inner health, it's about gut health. We always talk about the gut being the second brain in the body and, and if we can heal our gut, so many good things can happen from it. So it just had such a strong personal resonance that it really made sense for me from kind of a brand perspective to come in and lead this organization and help shape the go to market. And from a mission perspective, we really want to own the digestive health category and we firmly believe that if you can heal your microbes biome, anything is possible. So, you know, really you can get superhuman results by, you know, using Super Gut.
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C
Tracy, welcome to the podcast. It's great to talk to you. Since you mentioned Madagascar, of course, now going through my head is the dreamworks movie Madagascar and those darn ringtail lemurs singing I like to move it, move it. So I'm going to try and put that aside and get to our conversation. You know, I think you were, you were ahead of the wave. Shree and I were at the Cagney Conference Consumer Analyst Group in New York earlier this year. Talk and all of 30 publicly traded companies were there essentially giving investor presentations. A lot of them were food. And the ones that resonated the most with us were the ones that had been tailoring their innovation to support a GLP1 lifestyle. So I think you've done a great job in helping to launch and expand Super Gut. So I want to dig into Super Gut in that you've emphasized science backed ingredients resistant starch, prebiotic blends, positioning around GLP1 nutrition. How do you balance science baked in, Pardon me? How do you balance science backed ingredients with consumer friendly messaging? With Gut house, you know, fiber gaps and GLP1 trends converging. How do you translate big macro trends into everyday relevance to the consumers? You're hoping you're going to try your brand?
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Yeah, it's definitely a fine line. If you talk to our lead investor Dave Friedberg from the all in podcast, he'll start going down a rabbit hole on short chain fatty acids and the release of butyrate. And that's a little bit complicated for the average consumer to, to take in. Right. If we, if we were a healthcare practitioner brand, I think it wouldn't be. But considering our main routes to market right now are Target, Walmart and Amazon, like the messaging has to be more of a 101 level. So we've done a really good job, you know, kind of talking to people, really understanding what lands with our messaging. And we've kind of like, as far as the science piece of it goes, we've landed on this golden gut ratio, which is 2 to 1 soluble to insoluble fiber. So insoluble fiber will do what you normally think of fiber. It will help you go to the bathroom, it'll help you be regular, it'll, you know, move things along throughout your intestinal lining. Soluble fiber is really where the magic happens. So when you think about soluble fiber, that is where the short chain fatty acids are being released in butyrate. But what happens from a benefits perspective is that it releases the glucagon like peptide and you feel satiated. Your A1C levels are more moderated very early on with the brand. We did a study with Stanford and you know, like most Startup brands don't have the ability to do, you know, a million dollar study with Stanford. We don't talk about it much now because it was done on a product that we're no longer supporting. But during this study, someone taking our prebiotic fiber blend plus protein twice a day for 12 weeks, there was a 70 basis point reduction in A1C levels which is on par with metformin. So it's very powerful in terms of like what can happen when you lean into soluble fiber and having that ratio of soluble to insoluble fiber. There's also benefits as it relates to helping lower your cholesterol, protecting your heart health. There's a mood boosting element and an energy boosting element that comes along with it. So that's, you know, the framework of the messaging as it relates to, you know, science without being overly sciencey. And we still want it to be very effective, enjoyable, something that you can incorporate throughout your day. So the usability aspect is really important to us, especially having an unflavored powder that you put into your coffee first thing in the morning every day. So like you can get that bridge the gap of your fiber needs. We all know that 95% of Americans aren't getting enough fiber. We typically get between 10 to 15 grams of fiber where Americans need 28 to 38 grams of fiber, depending on your sex and how much you weigh.
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A
Tracy, I spent time on your website looking at the actual GLP1 daily support as I mentioned. It's a huge reason why I wanted to have this conversation with you because corporate America, especially food companies, I come from one of them, General Mills as a senior leader, but pretty much anyone we talk to, they acknowledged GLP1. None of them, other than maybe Conagra has really any play in this space. And really Conagra is going to label products GLP1 friendly or not. So for the large part they're mostly ignoring it here. I hear you say clearly Metformin like performance, did I hear that correctly? That's like an outer space moonshot grand slam on a baseball field. That's a big, big, big deal if I may say so myself. But I also started looking at the ingredients for the product and I want to jump into what actually achieves this. So love to learn how you actually evaluate and select ingredient technologies. You know, I while looking at the product again, I saw green banana resistant starch sun fiber. How does that evolve over the course of time? Because it can't be a one and done. Then we have so many marketing regulatory complexities in this country. How do you get to the label GLP1 daily support and then how do you yet ensure that you can protect the brand equity?
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B
I mean, it's a great question. You know, obviously we're not able to trademark anything that's, you know, GLP1 daily support. And I will say that, you know, there is some unknown regulatory aspects. I mean, at any point in time they could say, hey, no more GLP1 products. In fact, TikTok banned GLP1 on TikTok Shop. So on TikTok Shop, we just have our foundational daily fiber.
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Any reasoning given why other than it's GLP1, any reasoning or not really, they.
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B
Just said that it was, you know, really unproven. And, you know, the challenge is that you have a lot of, I'm going to say, you know, new brands who are really leaning into the science and are, you know, kind of putting strong, you know, RDs, PhDs, you know, they're looking into the science and they're making sure that whatever is on front of pack that the claims can be substantiated. And you have other brands that primarily sell in, you know, D2C, TikTok shop and Amazon that don't have the oversight and, you know, kind of the, the fact checking that, let's say a Whole Foods or Walgreens or a Walmart would have. So I think it was just a means to kind of clear out any product that they might be somewhat at risk for distributing that may or may not have, you know, positive impact on GLP1 levels.
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A
Tracy, you were midway through the ingredient story when TikTok came up, but continue with the ingredients. I'm still curious to know that resistance charge piece and how that actually works because GLP medication like Ozempic is using something else.
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B
And we're not claiming to be Ozempic, we're not claiming to be WeGovy. We're not claiming to have, you know, the same effects. One thing that we do know that if you are on a GLP1 medication, one of the first side effects is that you're constipated and that you're having, you know, your intestinal lining is slowing down, your everything is slowing down. How you process food. So as a means to kind of keep things moving along, prebiotic fiber is a really good source to help you through the GLP1 journey. I would say that it's not not prebiotic fiber only. Polyphenols is also, you know, like a really good tool when you're on a GLP1 journey, as is protein. So it's like one thing of many things, right? Digestive enzymes also, you know, really helps you out too, because it helps break down the food into smaller pieces to be absorbed through your intestinal lining a little bit better because it is slowing down. That being said, Sonol is a resistant starch. It's made from resistant potato starch. So when we talk about kind of where the magic happens is this resistant starch. And that's when the short chain fatty acids are being released. So that's one of the resistant starches that we use. We are big believers that you need a multi fiber blend similar to how you would eat fiber, right? You wouldn't go and sit down and eat three avocados in a day and say, okay, checked it off. I hit my fiber goals because I had three, you know, avocados today which are very rich in fiber. But you would have, you know, raspberries in your yogurt. Maybe you would put some hemp seeds or some chia seeds on it. You would have avocado in a salad. You would have, you know, I mean, we're getting into butternut squash season. You know, squash is a good source of fiber as well. You know, anything, you know, kiwis are a great source of fiber. So all throughout the day you would have diversity in your fiber consumption. Nuts, seeds, legumes, berries. Right. So what we're saying is that if you look at kind of the current landscape of fiber products on the market, there's either, there's two that are kind of the legacy products. One that's made from wheat dextrin and one that's made from psyllium husk. And you know, I will say that fiber is good. Some fibers are better than other fibers. Wheat dextrin to me is not necessarily the best type of fiber. I myself am gluten free. If we look at those labels, they have, you know, some of them have aspartame, some of them have sucralose, some of them have yellow number five maltodextrone. So ultimately, we're looking to modernize the category with clean whole nutrition. So we use green bananas. Green bananas are actually the most fiber rich fruit, plant, vegetable that you can find before they turn yellow. So, you know, like, if you talk to anyone, I shouldn't say anyone. If you talk to, you know, folks that are 70s, 80s, 90s, they remember, oh yeah, my mom used to mash up green bananas when I was a kid. So it is super fiber dense. So that's a hero Ingredient. We also use the resistant potato starch. Resistant starch, meaning that it's releasing that short chain fatty acids. All of the kind of inflammation benefits, the cholesterol benefits. The A1C leveling off comes from that resistant starch. We also use Sunfiber. So both Sunfiber and Sonol have a lot of claims associated with those ingredients. They're trademarked, which means that they're a higher price. So in order for a brand to include them into their, their product and their product marketing, you're going to pay a premium. So that typically translates to a higher price on shelf. But Sonal, Sonal and Sunfiber together make a really great pair because the sun fiber is coming from a gourb bean. So again, we're getting back to like whole nutrition. So beans, potatoes, green bananas. We have another ingredient that's oat beta glucan that comes from oats that provides a lot of that movement and satiation through your gut lining. So those are, you know, our diversified fiber sources that line up as a blend, a proprietary blend in our product that kind of adhere to that 2 to 1 ratio of soluble to insoluble fiber.
- [23:25]
C
Tracy, thank you for that deep dive and double click into the ingredient technology. Let's go back to the business focus. So as you look ahead three to five years, how do you gauge success? Is it based upon purely the revenue goals? Is it about getting household penetration? Is about seeing a health impact on your customers? Is it all three? And given the rapid growth you've already achieved, what's kind of the next inflection point that you're really focused on?
- [23:57]
B
Well, I think, you know, any, any CEO is going to tell you that, you know, they need to return numbers for their shareholders. So, you know, we're on a path to 100 million in revenue. We're not there yet, but there's a clear line of sight to it. We're going to continue to ensure that we're succeeding with our door count. So this year, we started off the year at 5,000 doors. We'll end this year right around, you know, 15, 16,000 doors. So we've pretty much tripled our door count this year. That does put a lot of pressure on us that we need to execute on shelf. You know, clearly going into a massive retailer like Walmart, Walmart, you know, we need to ensure that the velocities are there, that people are being educated. I'm a big believer that it's the brand's job to educate and drive activated consumers in store. It's not so much the retailer's job, it's our job to really create that movement. And you know, we're doing a 30 day gut health challenge right now with a bunch of our consumers and we're giving them a test, a tiny health gut test on day one and then they'll take 30 days of super gut and then they'll take it again. So we're going to continue to lean into science backed strategies like that. What are the outcomes that resulted from that 30 day challenge? Can we leverage that for a more modern clinical study with products that we actually are manufacturing now versus, you know, what our product lineup was five years ago? So we're going to continue doing that. So I think we always have to be really focused on the outcomes. And the really exciting thing about being in this space is that with prebiotic fiber, the felt state happens in a day or two with collagen. You know, like I had to tell consumers and you know, my, my family and friends, oh, just keep taking it, keep taking it. You know, 30 days, 45 days, maybe 60 days. You'll definitely notice something by 60 days. And now I have a solution that, you know, people do notice a felt state after, you know, one or two days. So it's great to kind of have that proof point that, okay, something's happening here. This is, this is a felt state that I'm feeling. It's, you know, it's changing some of my health habits and I'm going to keep on buying this product, using this product. And the consumer loyalty is very strong. I think the challenge for us right now is there's a lot of people in the health and wellness space, you know, kind of creating noise at that top of funnel level. There's a lot of existing brands that are getting into the fiber space that are popping GLP1 on products. You know, obviously we're competing with them even if it's not a direct competitor from a mind share and from a wallet share perspective. So we definitely want to ensure that our messaging is breaking through and that this, you know, science and lifestyle kind of one, two punch is resonating with our consumers. And that's a lot of test and learn and trial by error. I don't think that we've got the right strategy yet, but that doesn't mean that we're not going to continue to iterate and evolve.
- [27:16]
A
Congratulations first of all on 15,000 approximate store doors and to true north and more growth to you guys. You mentioned leaning on science on the product portfolio. So how do you Think about the pipeline. Will you stay tightly focused on gut metabolic health backed by science, or expand into adjacent nutrition categories in store?
- [27:40]
B
Well, I'll never say never. I think right now the short term pipeline is really owning that digestive health set. When I stepped into the company, we had a product family that was in protein meal replacement. It was protein plus prebiotic fiber as a blend, as a shake or, you know, a smoothie. And that's a product that we've segued away from. We also had a product family that was in the nutritional bar set. The bars are beloved by everyone. So it was just named Yahoo's Yahoo Health's best protein bar for gut health for 2026. So now we're down to kind of two categories, meaning digestive health and nutritional bars. I do think the bars provide a gateway into the brand. So maybe someone's not willing to part with $30 day one, but they would be willing to part with $3. So there is benefit in having that bar business. And it's a protein and fiber bar. So it's 10 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber. I think that we really need to fortify what we're doing in the digestive space. We just launched our foundational daily fiber and it's a little bit different than the GLP1 daily support. And that means that there's a little bit more focus on the regularity claims and you know, like making you just more regular. So we want to make sure that both products stand as, you know, their own kind of value proposition on shelf. But I see us expanding that line not just from a line extension perspective, but also from adjacencies that support gut health and digestive health. But down, down the road, I mean, we've certainly seen prebiotic sodas take off and there's been great success in market with prebiotic sodas. So like the world is starting to understand what fiber, especially prebiotic fiber, will do for you. It's a different type of fiber that's in Olipop or Poppy versus super gut. But I do feel like there's the ability to cross over at some point in time. I think right now we just need to be focused on kind of building out our brand strategy.
- [30:10]
A
Right now, a reminder to audience, we're speaking with Tracy Warner Hallima, CEO of Superguard.
- [30:15]
C
So Tracy, you've moved from a very strong launch in direct to consumer into major retail chains. You mentioned you're going into full distribution at Walmart and that's a pretty big deal. One of my favorite books and you may have read it. It's a business book by Geoffrey Moore called Crossing the Chasm. It's talking about those brands that, that make it from, hey, I had a nice relaunch to I can actually scale this into a real business. So what's been the biggest challenge in, in the transition in trying to cross that chasm? And you know, where, where do you see this going from a portfolio perspective that will I was looking at? I mean, I think you've got great, you've got bars, you've got daily regimen, you've got GLP1 adherence. I mean there are a whole bunch of things here. What needs to transpire to truly cross that chasm? Is it purely distribution? Is it building out the portfolio? What's going to make that happen?
- [31:14]
B
I think if I look at modern brands that really succeed at scale, there are very few dse, only brands that are exalted as those kind of brand icons. You know, Casper and Allbirds, like, you know, these were great brands 10 years ago and now they barely exist. Right. So I think we all knew that we needed to get out of the DTC only mindset. And you know, a year ago, a little over a year ago, we were Primarily, you know, 80%, 85% of the business was D2C. So it was a big push to move into a retail strategy. But our goal is to succeed in all channels. I'm a big believer that I don't really care what channel of trade the consumer comes into as long as they stay. And I also recognize that in modern day, you know, kind of consumer purchasing, they may enter into one channel and then the next month they segue into another channel. When you have events like Prime Day and you know, Target circle deals and, you know, different things may cause people to buy a product in any particular channel of trade. So product availability in my mind is the most important p of the four Ps and so we wanted to ensure that we had product availability. I think it still is a big piece of our strategy for 2026. I would say that, you know what success looks like and that chasm crossing is really making super gut something that becomes part of America's daily regimen. And, you know, that can happen in different formats. Right. You know, formats are, you know, a certain way for us to further penetrate because not everyone is interested in putting powder into a glass of water and mixing it. Maybe it's too messy for them. I'm not really sure what the objection would be, but fundamentally we want to ensure that it becomes part of when people think about fiber and especially as so many Americans are chasing now a higher protein goal. So I'm hearing not just 100 grams of protein, but I was at Supply side West talking to someone last week and they're like, oh Yeah, I take 200 grams of protein a day. And I'm like, whoa, that's a lot. Like, you better be increasing your fiber along with it, otherwise your intestinal lining is not going to be able to absorb those nutrients. So where does the proline and the arginine and the glycine go if you're not increasing protein? So like, I think that there's a lot of education that needs to take place. People still perceive fiber to be kind of an old person's, an old person supplement. So I think modernizing fiber, really educating people on the why behind fiber is part of that, you know, crossing the chasm. We need to ensure that people understand the why behind protein. At Expo west earlier this year, I put on our bag, fiber is the new protein. And it sparked a lot of conversation. Certainly some of that has gone viral. Fiber. Maxine, the CEO of Pepsi, just reported out Q3 earnings and said fiber is the new protein. So I'm very happy that that tagline kind of stuck. But like, fundamentally it all starts with education. And when we have a consumer that is educated on the why behind it, then it's pretty easy to get them into the product. I'm also a big believer that you just, you work on product quality and product taste. Everything needs to be tested. You know, glyphosate, non gmo, cgmp, all of that, that's kind of like table stakes. But it also has to taste great. Because if you're asking people to part with their hard earned money, especially now more than ever because prices are rising, you know, SNAP benefits are questionable. What's happening? You know, people have less disposable income today than they probably had a year ago. So if we're asking them to part with 25 or $30, it needs to be a value to them and it needs to be an enjoyable experience. So all of those are kind of pillars to how we're building the brand.
- [35:47]
A
I'd love to jump into some of the leadership aspects of what you do and what you've done in the industry over time. You came with a technology background and then pivoted into gut healing or specifically into functional wellness. Take the journey how that was. Any challenges as a female leader?
- [36:05]
B
A lot of challenges. You know, I worked predominantly in a male industry for 20 years and you know, I, it was a competitive industry. So I will always like tip my hat to technology because it made me a little bit more like, you know, Teflon Tracy, where anything can like hit me. And it doesn't really shake me too much because you know, it was a very competitive dog eat dog world in tech sales in the 2000 era. So you know, there weren't a lot of females in, in sales or. And certainly not in sales management. I remember receiving an award at IBM and I went up to get the award and I looked around and there were 73 people in the room and 72 of them were male and I was the only female. So I was kind of always like figuring out how do I, how do I play in this world? That I don't want to say that, you know, the stakes were against me because I do feel like being a female in some instances presented an opportunity because it was a different type of voice that was being heard. And sometimes that voice was more welcome. I will say that it never really felt like the perfect fit. I did tech sales because I was good at it and quite frankly I made a lot of money. But it never really felt like this was my calling. And when I got into cpg, the founder of Vital, he and I both were in technology together. So he was like, hey, I have an idea. And he said, what if we did ingestible collagen? Because he had been doing some research about what PubMed was saying about the effect of glycine, which is an amino acid, the most readily amino acid found in collagen. And he said, I think that there's something here. And the more I dug into it and started taking the product, two and a half weeks later I had a shoulder labrum tear and I didn't have full mobility in my shoulder. And then I took it for two and a half weeks and the next thing I know I've got full mobility. So it was that aha moment. Like, oh, could I really unlock something that made people feel better and that intrinsically felt so much better to me. I was a newly divorced single mom, you know, trying to provide for my two girls. You guys are girl dads, so you know exactly what that means. And my kids could kind of understand what, you know, collagen was. They saw it on shelf at Target. It was much more transferable. And always being a good role model for my kids has been paramount to how I hold myself with integrity. And you know, how I lead, I lead as a CEO, how I lead as a mom. To like these two people. So I would say that that was a big part of the transition.
- [39:16]
C
Tracy, let's work to creating a highly productive work environment. How do you build the kind of culture and team you need to go from an early stage startup into like a scaled large enterprise? Because I've been at companies that have gone from one to the other and sometimes it's not an easy transition. What do you look for when hiring leaders in areas outside of what your core expertise is? Maybe a supply chain data marketing for a high growth CPG brand. What's going through your mind in terms of making sure you have the right talent that can bridge that transition?
- [39:59]
B
I mean, first and foremost, agility. I look for people that are able to move quickly and not be so flustered when there's pivots. Because invariably as an entrepreneur you're always pivoting. Right? Like what we. I always tell the team, you know, the company changes every 60 days. So like we have to be like really like grounding in and saying, okay, who are we these next 60 days? Because there's going to be another inflection point. And that inflection point could be, you know, a retail launch. That inflection point could be, you know, something going viral that we want to lean into. So like the ability to pivot and the ability to be scrappy I think is front and center. You know, it's been interesting because when I stepped in, you know, the team had like, I mean, they were primarily a D2C marketing machine team. And you know, when we talk about on time and full, you know, they look at me like, what is on time and full mean? So like, it has been kind of retraining and getting people to really rally around, you know, what are the most important things. And as you guys know, like if you launch into Target or Walmart and you're not at a, you know, 92, 95% level, you're going to have issues and you're not going to stay on shelf. So a lot of it has been kind of like retooling and retraining and that leads to, okay, I need people who are innately curious. It has to be kind of core of your DNA that you're a curious person, you lean into ChatGPT. You know, you're always trying to kind of find another path forward because invariably with a, with a small startup or even, you know, like a mid sized growth company, which we are, there's a lot of things that you have to kind of segue away from and segue towards that, you know, maybe weren't part of your annual plan when you wrote it in January of 26 or 25. Right. So I think, you know, curiosity and agility are kind of front and center. Obviously I want to find people that have some CPG experience that know how to like reduce mean time to revenue and know how to reduce like mean time to productivity. So we recently hired one of the guys that I worked with at Vital Proteins who came in to lead freight and fulfillment for us and we were able to reduce our pick and pack, pick and pack rates by 25% almost overnight because, you know, he has the relationships. So that's one of those mean time to productivity, you know, improving meantime to EBITDA positive. So like, I think those are real strong value creation centers that, you know, I look for in leaders too.
- [42:59]
A
So as we go towards the closing of the show, we got a couple more for you here. You know, there are other CPG founders listening to this episode and they are also targeting wellness, functional nutrition. You already mentioned it's a pretty crowded space. What advice do you have for them, especially regarding building proof versus speed to market? And what do you think retailers care? I mean, the fact that you're on national distribution at Walmart is a big deal. So what do you think dealers care about today? Is it a category fit? Is it your ability to sustain innovation in the space? Is it your digital presence? Is it just functional?
- [43:33]
B
Well, let's start with the retail first. So I think product market fit always, you know, like that's front and center if you're a buyer for any retailer. So like, does it fit within the category? Is there white space currently in their category that they're not covering? I think, you know, any buyer that is buying for digestive health is recognizing that there's been a boom in fiber sales and, and you look at the syndicated data on Metamucil and Betafiber and they're up again. When we really think about the gut microbiome, like maybe not all of their ingredients are modern to what the today's consumer is really looking for. So I think they're looking for that product market fit. What's going to give me an alternative? What's going to be maybe a more premium price point that the consumer will help basket build? You know, we've seen our data. We know that if people are buying super gut, they're probably buying other things in OTC as well. Maybe that's a bar, maybe that's a protein powder, maybe that's an electrolyte. Hydration product, but they're definitely basket building around our brand and you could say the other more modern brands as well. So I think it starts there. I think that they're always looking for a unique story to be told. Like the different types of fiber is an interesting angle because it hasn't been done. So if you look at literally every other fiber product on shelf, I will say that there's other D2C brands that have popped up more recently that have different fiber blends. But on shelf everything is, you know, one type of fiber or the other. So it's either insoluble or soluble. So like having differentiation I think is really important no matter what category that you're in. I think it goes back to storytelling. How are you storytelling as a brand? I think buyers now have very high expectations for brands that they're going to put on shelf and they're going to commit to. So they expect the brands to be established, they expect the brands to have a following. They expect the brands to educate and really, you know, kind of create that buzz. Otherwise, you know, they could put a different brand that, you know, maybe is a little bit better captured to a certain type of demographic. You know, we all know fiber is an older demographic, so how do we modernize fiber? So of course having a brand that has presence in TikTok and, and Instagram, you know, I'm not discounting Facebook or YouTube or even, you know, new platforms like Substack or Reddit, but it's really kind of creating that movement where, you know, fiber is like a constant drumbeat being told on a day to day basis. And you're being, you know, fed up and digitally presented, you know, different fiber options along the way. So that's kind of like, I think the view on retail. You know, certainly retail buyers have all the data in the world at their fingertips. So I also think that they're, you know, ridiculously insightful and analytical when it comes to what categories are going to catch on long before other people figure out what categories are going to catch on. So, you know, the devil is in the details and the devil is in the syndicated data as it relates to other founders and how to kind of strike that balance with building a science brand. You know, I think that we've seen a lot of celebrity backed brands that have done great, you know, road sold to ELF in I think two, two and a half years. It wasn't very long. So like there's a notion of like having a credible recommender and certainly, you know, Hailey Bieber with Her, you know, Perfect Skin was a credible recommender. I think we're entering into this realm of the. The personal practitioner, if you will. So people, consumers will go to TikTok. They'll learn about whatever interest area, whether that's skin health, whether that's, you know, I'm having menopause symptoms, I'm, like, really tired. Come 3 o' clock in the afternoon, type in whatever symptom you're having. TikTok will spell out, here's what you need to do. And it can be a little bit of a dangerous rabbit hole because, you know, being your own personal practitioner, if you don't have a science background, you know, clearly presents a risk. That's why I think, you know, so many of these brands are being founded by registered dietitians and, you know, PhDs and doctors. They have a credible element. They may struggle a little bit more with brand building, but, like, if you want to be a brand that sets apart from a scientific standpoint, there needs to be some credible aspect of it. We have a couple of registered dietitians that we work with, and, you know, it's far more credible to have them talk about the need for fiber, the types of fiber, why you need fiber in your diet, the rise of colon cancer in young men because they don't get enough fiber in their diets of, you know, primarily processed food. Like, that message is much better being delivered from someone like our RD than it is being delivered from me, who went to business school. So I think, you know, like that storytelling and who is the voice that needs to deliver this message is really important for founders.
- [49:17]
A
Awesome. Thank you for the terrific conversation. Let me thank our audience for listening to this wonderful episode. Do leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or favorite listening platform. It informs us how we're doing as well as if we're having the right conversations with the right folks. To all of you, thank you from Peter and me. You make the show happen to all our sponsors, whether this podcast or parties, events, hosted dinners, having us panels. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Peter. Always fun doing this with you. What's your one big takeaway today?
- [49:46]
C
Well, Sheree, I'm still a little upset you didn't let me ask Tracy that question about, as a graduate of Michigan, whether she questioned the STEM credentials of her school, that as a member of a sports group called the Big Ten, has 18 members, that. That in and of itself is a big thing that I'm still wrestling my mind with. But what I, what really I take away from it is is as you scale your business. She made a really interesting comment when she said, you know, the business changes every six, 60 days, every two months. You have to be extremely agile. You have to have people that have agility and can flex and understand that today this is what the plan is and tomorrow that's what the plan is. And you go with what gets you to the business outcomes that you're looking for. So agility, critically important as you're scaling a brand from an early stage into hopefully a full, full scale enterprise business.
- [50:41]
A
For me, when she opened the episode, talking about gluing things herself in a warehouse, that's a big deal. You know, when you have that kind of experience, you're determined to make things scale and that resulted in success. We talked about 15,000 store doors, national distribution at Walmart. That's how these things happen. If you stay agile and nimble, you've already talked about agility. Peter Tracy, thank you for joining us on the CPG Guys. This was fun.
- [51:07]
B
Thanks so much. This was great. And go blue.
- [51:09]
A
That's a wrap of this episode of the CPG Guys.
- [51:24]
C
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