Shree Rajagopalan (3:13)

Looking forward, man, I hope both you and Nadia can enjoy the trip up to Boston. So make sure. Of course. Folks, you're subscribing to our podcast on your preferred listening platform, where you can get our latest episodes even go back to consume some of the 500 plus episodes we've already published. Today's episode is all about social digital creators and a platform that has shortchanged attention as well as entertainment. Much more than that, by the way. To discuss that very topic, we've invited Mike Westgate, vertical Director of Food and beverage at TikTok Global Business Solutions. This is the second appearance for TikTok on the CPG Guys. Earlier this year we had Ajay Salpaker from TikTok Shop. Today we would like to jump into a vertical that's closer to our backgrounds in the industry and that of the CPG guys, of course, the food and beverage vertical. So let's welcome Mike. Mike, welcome to the CPG Guys. How you doing?

Mike Westgate (4:02)

I'm doing great and thank you so much for having me. Peter. It's great to meet you, Sri. We've actually met before. Um, couple overlaps here. We're both GMI alums, so yea, General Mills and I'm pretty sure we got together at Shop Talk a couple of years ago when we were just launching TikTok Shop. And you mentioned Ajay. I was just texting with my good buddy Ajay Selpakar. He and I were in the trenches together a couple years ago and good friends to this date. His podcast was awesome with you guys. So really looking forward to this and honored to be here.

Shree Rajagopalan (4:29)

He actually sat four feet from me right here in his office right here in this podcast studio and we recorded the episode together. So that was the first one I did in my new studio. So we're of course excited to have you on the CPG Guys. We'll include in the digital show notes of this episode, links to your LinkedIn profile that are TikToks and we'll jump right into what we've been waiting to actually ask you, Mike. So I'll kick it off first. So You've talked about TikTok leading a new era of discovery commerce. Can you unpack what that means, how it's shifting traditional consumer journeys, especially as we think of food and beverage?

Mike Westgate (5:03)

Yeah, yeah, happy to. I'm really excited to give you guys a few examples what we're seeing on the platform, because it really is evolving quickly. But one thing, and I know Ajay talked about this as well, but dispel this, you know, kind of common myth that TikTok is social. It's actually an entertainment platform. That's how we view ourselves. And that's why people come to TikTok. They come to be entertained, they come to discover. And part of that discovery sometimes leads to shopping, either on the platform, on a dot com, or even in brick and mortar retail. But that's. That's kind of the core of what we are and who we are. 170 million monthly active users in the U.S. now they're. They're more active than ever. Video posts jumped 34% since January. Video views are up 16%. And 81% of people say they come to the platform to learn something new, and then 61% actually purchase something they saw on TikTok. So we've kind of seen these signals emerging for years. The users are saying, like, they're responding through their actions and through their words and comments and shares that they like to see new products or new uses for products. Creators are saying, hey, we want new monetization opportunities. And brands are saying we want new ways to connect with this audience. So it's this perfect storm of commerce on platform and off, and we believe we're creating a great halo effect for retail.

Peter Vs. Bond (6:17)

Mike, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you on board. And Nothing's hotter than TikTok shop right now and where TikTok is going with its platform. So it's very relevant. So when I think about shopping, historically, shopping has generally started with intent. Now it seems to be beginning with inspiration. How should consumer packaged goods marketers rethink their strategies in this new discovery first model of shopping?

Mike Westgate (6:51)

Yeah, it's a great question, and I think it kind of goes back to the first answer, where if we are an entertainment platform where people come to escape, to be informed, to be educated, to discover, then creative briefs aren't necessarily written in a vacuum and creators really become the first customer for a brand. So putting creators at the center of the message, of the go to market, of the inspiration and the narrative is really where CPGs can win because those creators have built audiences and often based on authenticity and credibility with their audiences, their communities, and they know the best way to express that brand value to them.

Shree Rajagopalan (7:31)

But Mike, how does that match process actually happen? This creator is ideal for this CPG brand. How does that process happen?

Mike Westgate (7:41)

It's a great question. We have several tools that we can do matchmaking. So we within TikTok 1, it's our full creative suite. You can do creator searches based upon your category, based upon performance, based upon videos that you like, based upon audience match. It can be done offline, which often it does. It can be done through partners and creative agencies. And we actually have a new tool I'd love to chat with you guys about. We call it content suite. It's within TikTok 1, but it's essentially like a lightning in a bottle ability to see what's trending about your brand, what's trending in your category. And these are just general user videos. It could be based upon a monetized creator or just a user like you or I. And a brand can see that immediately with the click of a button, ask for the rights to use it as an advertisement and then ride that wave of virality. So that's another way we're trying to bring creators and moments and viral opportunities closer to brands.

Shree Rajagopalan (8:34)

What's more common, a brand to walk in one with a choice of who they want to partner with as a digital creator or coming to you guys and asking for advice on who that should be.

Mike Westgate (8:45)

I think it's a good mix. There's really no one silver bullet or path. There is, you know, 170 monthly active users. 170 million. Sorry. That means a very diverse set of interests, ways of communicating creative styles and consumption, consumption patterns. So bringing. Bringing creators offline or ambassadors can actually be a great path because they understand your brand, you've worked with them in the past. But discovering new creators can add to that diverse mix and help you reach new people.

Shree Rajagopalan (9:17)

So now that we found our creator for our brand, how does TikTok help brands bridge that gap between the entertainment piece which you've just mentioned and the transactability which is much more lower funnel from a fun scroll, entertaining scroll, learn to an actual purchase.

Mike Westgate (9:36)

Yeah, there's several paths to purchase. We certainly specialize in, you know, upper funnel, massive reach. Reach you can't find on other platforms. So general branding performs very well. We do have a lot of ad tools and types that allow to drive traffic to websites and apps to lead gen forms. But with the advent of TikTok shop you can actually transact on the platform as well. So if you see a creator post or an affiliate post or even a brand post that has a little orange box at the bottom, that's a link into a product detail page that you could either add to cart or buy now on TikTok Shop, but that is also intended to reduce the friction of clicks off site and keep people in that moment of inspiration and entertainment that they came to TikTok for.

Shree Rajagopalan (10:20)

And then Mike, when it comes to some of these largest enterprise brands, you and I have worked for one in the past. But how often do you see these brands leveraging TikTok shop? Is it like once a year, twice a year? Very purposeful, single occasion? Are they frequent back and forth? Is it ba and especially food and bev?

Mike Westgate (10:39)

Yeah, there's. I think you need to think of TikTok as a living, breathing, always on thing. But brands that have succeeded especially in the enterprise space have matched up their product launch or promotional calendar with drops on TikTok. And some have really, really succeeded by creating exclusive periods. So back to what I said earlier, that the creator is the first customer, your affiliate network or your second salesforce. You've got to win them over and giving them something exclusive. It could be a promotion, it could be an exclusive period. Something first to retail, gets them excited about the product, to present that then to their audiences. A great example is Skittles popped. So Mars launched Skittles seeing this viral trend of freeze dried candy on the platform. Not sure if you guys kids eat this. My kids love it. But Mars saw this and they said well we need to launch our own version. We're going to take this to retail. But what if we create a big splash on TikTok first? So they hand selected seven top creators, had a fixed amount in a 10 day exclusive period, sold it out in 48 hours, but the story didn't end there. They then took that back to retail to drive more facings ACV quality merchandising. It was a really great kind of full circle retail moment for them and now they're looking at other ways. How can we do seasonal launches to meet these growing trends on the platform?

Peter Vs. Bond (11:55)

Yeah, that was a great story. Flywheel was behind the scenes in helping Mars on that particular Skittles project and we were very excited to be involved in that. So food and beverage really has exploded on TikTok. Mike from Viral Recipes to emerging brands, even big established brands. One of my favorites Sree and I talk about is what Coca Cola did in connecting Coke with Core Power. And it spurred on a whole new product which people call Coke Protein. Right? And what's happening in physical retail now? They didn't even need to innovate a product. They just needed to co merchandise products in physical proximity to drive sales. And it was all inspired by videos that people were putting out on TikTok. So my question is, what's fueling all this momentum?

Mike Westgate (12:53)

Well, back to what I said at the outset is we're an entertainment platform. People come here to be entertained and to be inspired. So if you know that and you lean into the aspects of being multisensory sound on an educational or discovery moment. What fits perfectly with that is cooking and recipes and new food flavors and so forth. So it's just a perfect match. And then you. You see the more that brands lean in, the more the creators get inspired and interested. And it creates this great, sorry to, you know, pun intended, but creates a flywheel for the consumers as well. You mentioned brain collabs too. And this is kind of something that happened outside the category a little bit, but still essentially was within consumer goods. A couple years back, Tart and Beach Waiver teamed up. They found that they were competing for the same creators over and over again. And they said, well, why don't we just box our products together in a multi pack, take a bunch of creators to Bora Bora and have them film products or have them film short videos and do live shopping events. And that was yet another sellout moment of matching two brands that might not have thought about it otherwise, but through the creators having an affinity for both, it put these two brands side by side. I thought this was a super cool story.

Shree Rajagopalan (14:05)

You gave us the example of the Bora Bora one now and then Skittles. Are there any other big examples that come to mind, or maybe two of how leading food and beverage brands are using the platform to stay culturally relevant and actually drive measurable business results?

Mike Westgate (14:21)

Yeah. Well, there's one recently. I'm sure you guys know Todd Kaplan with Kraft Heinz. He is, he's a master at culture bombs, as he calls them. And they saw Kraft saw this emerging trend of ordering fries with salads to make salads feel a little more addressable and less boring. And it was a hashtag salad talk that kind of like drove this viral moment and this inspiration for them to create croutons. So Tater Tots that you put on your salad. So you can kind of solve both cravings. And it was limited time through, I believe through Doordash or Instacart, but that was a way for them to penetrate a new audience, to ride a viral wave of something that was happening on the platform and then create a commercial opportunity out of it as well.

Shree Rajagopalan (15:03)

Let me remind our audience that we're speaking with Mike Westgate from TikTok.

Peter Vs. Bond (15:06)

So Mike, how are challenger brands, right, the smaller niche players, the ones that don't necessarily have the distribution, the volume, how are they using TikTok differently that lets them, for lack of a better term, punch above their weight. What's going on that your platform gives them the power to actually outperform the challenges that they would otherwise meet in traditional physical retail?

Mike Westgate (15:36)

That's a great question. I think probably if there's a common thread, a few that come to mind, Bloom, Goalie, Ladder, Fitness, Kin, Euphorics, they've all leaned in heavily with creator and affiliate networks and kind of using that as their go to market muscle and their second sales force. So they've used our affiliate creator marketplace to, to do the matchmaking we discussed before. They are a bit more provide a bit more latitude with their creative briefs to let the creators do what they do best. Leaning in heavily to our content production tools like our Symphony AI capabilities that can allow for different versioning, remixing, using avatars, language translation, taking professionally generated content, running it through the tools and having several different versions that are TikTok friendly in TikTok first format. So I would say, you know, kind of leveraging the tools on the platform, working through the those that have the voice of authority and then being a bit diverse and creative with their go to market messaging has helped them keep up with the high demand for content quantity and quality.

Peter Vs. Bond (16:51)

Can you double click down on the Symphony AI partnership and what that really brings the equation?

Mike Westgate (16:57)

So Symphony is a video production suite. It has several capabilities all based in AI where you could take something as simple as a product catalog that you might upload to instacart of just product shots and use the tool to take image to video. And it creates really, really immersive, beautifully transitioned TikTok friendly videos out of still imagery, places them on backgrounds, uses effects and so forth. That's just one example. Another is text to video. So typing in text and having a Spanish language translation for your videos and then once again using avatars or other effects to layer on existing videos. So those are just a few of the capabilities that are native to this Symphony tool. That we have on our platform.

Shree Rajagopalan (17:46)

Hey, before I jump into other areas, one of the things that comes through my mind, you know I asked you about examples of leading food and beverage brands using TikTok to stay culturally relevant, but I also mentioned it to drive measurable business results. Could you talk to us about the measurement aspects like what are brands seeking from you in terms of measurement and then what do you offer up for brands to be able to measure their ROI on the investments they make with TikTok or on TikTok?

Mike Westgate (18:16)

Great question. We offer several different tools for first party measurement. We have third party partnerships with Inmarket and Nielsen. Most of our brands, especially in the CPG space are looking for brand lift. We perform very well for campaigns looking at general recall and intent. We actually have a budding, emerging and growing suite of measurement tools for sales lift and conversion lift as well. What I had mentioned in market actually helps measure retail lift at the sku level for 20,000 stores. So we want to make sure that we can meet the advertisers and client partners where they are, make sure we match up their campaign opportunities and the ad tools and measurement for their KPIs and objectives to make sure that they're hitting ROI or ROAS targets then typically.

Shree Rajagopalan (19:03)

Mike, today's economic environment, it's all about units moving units moving volume. How are brands approaching that subject with you? Is it at the end of the day the roi? The CPM days are like very advertising focused but today's needs is units. Is that why it's like Lyft and measuring that versus cost of acquisition and the cost per mile and things of that nature? Are you seeing a difference or are you working primarily with the brand folks, the agency classic old school advertising or this has moved much more lower funnel now for roi.

Mike Westgate (19:43)

I would say the innovation on the platform to offer more performance advertising tools for conversion, for traffic, for app download, for add, to cart has grown within our suite of tools as has the measurement. So the demand on the marketer now and the agency is to drive better attribution and we need to meet those needs through measurement partners, through first party measurement and make sure that we can track that that die marker all the way through the ecosystem for them. But I will say brand lift has not gone away. There's still a tremendous amount of value in awareness and making sure that that product is top of mind whether you want to buy it today on TikTok or when you see it on the end of the aisle when you're walking through the grocery store.

Peter Vs. Bond (20:30)

And I Have to imagine that one of the measurements that the brands are just so absolutely focused on is new to brand. Right. And they see your mechanism as introducing products to consumers who've never tried it. It is a huge trial driver. And in this day, as SRI said, volume challenged brands, anything they can do to bring someone new into the brand portfolio is pure gold to a brand marketer completely.

Mike Westgate (20:57)

And that is one of the measurement capabilities, specifically with Nielsen. And what we offer there is new to the brand, converting new customers, especially in these major flights that they'll do either seasonal periods, promotional periods and new product drops.

Shree Rajagopalan (21:13)

So we got about six, seven weeks left in the year, the holiday season and before you blink, it's 2026. So you're both a entertainment destination, a cultural hub, a shopping destination. And how do you see this shaping advertiser needs, brand needs and food and beverage and consumer behavior as we especially go three months out, the next 12 months kind of.

Mike Westgate (21:37)

Yeah, it's a great question and the way I like to describe it, to oversimplify is to call it surround sound. So if brand is not thinking about TikTok in a silo from retail media networks, in a silo from other social platforms platforms and asylum from TV, TikTok really is an accelerant for a lot of those. So going with a TikTok first strategy, matching up with the pre existing moments that they already invest in, likely most of these brands that you and I know so well have mapped out 2026 already. They know what they're doing in Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4. It's not just super bowl planning anymore. So we're investing heavily in those moments that matter most to our users and to the brands. And creating franchise opportunities with creators with live events, with music, with award shows, with sports, and making sure that we can help them get the most out of those investments they're making in the market. So it really has helped elongate the planning cycle and drive more strategic discussions on how they want to use TikTok to reach new audiences and drive sales. At the end of the day, my.

Peter Vs. Bond (22:43)

TikTok's not so secret as ingredient as its creators. Right? They are essential for the platform's ecosystem. How do you see their role evolving as commerce becomes more embedded in content?

Mike Westgate (22:56)

I think it's a great question and maybe a legacy perception is that creators are just pay to play or just talent for hire. Creators can be a strategic advisor to your brand because once again they know the audience potentially better than you do. So how can you find those Trusted voices of authority, those that matter most to the audience you have or the one that you want, and bring them in for briefing periods, bring them in for product innovation discussions, maybe even let them lead a line or a new skewer. A flavor profile that I think is the role of the creator is becoming the best way to put it, I guess strategic advisor or a brand steward and sponsor to help define what the product roadmap might look like. And I also think that the definition of creators I shared with you about this content suite tool that we were offering, it's expanding the definition now. Any user can be a creator. Are you guys creators?

Peter Vs. Bond (23:52)

I think we qualify as creators at this point.

Mike Westgate (23:55)

I think so. I think so.

Peter Vs. Bond (23:57)

We're fashion trendsetters, we know that much. But I think we are creators. Yes.

Shree Rajagopalan (24:01)

I finally have 140,000 followers on TikTok. So I'm definitely creating every day creator.

Mike Westgate (24:06)

Okay, great. So I'm stopping short of my creative pursuits of doing the Gabriella dance. But my daughters are doing it. They were doing it this morning.

Shree Rajagopalan (24:16)

The Westgate family is a creator.

Mike Westgate (24:18)

That's what comes exactly. Harper kids were like, oh, you gotta tell them, you gotta tell them. We did the dance at the homecoming. So it's very cool to see. And actually that becomes kind of a cool unifying moment and tool for us is to find the, the trends that make sense to them. I drive them crazy when I'm taking the kids to soccer and I do six, seven. But back to the initial point, we're all creators. Brands could find us. Brands could find anyone that has a particular passion or a way of presenting their value proposition that they may not have thought through in the boardroom. So giving access and that matchmaking capability to brands to find the users that can help them reach new audiences is, I think we'll just continue to expand on that.

Peter Vs. Bond (25:01)

Yeah, I think that brands can use creators as a reality check on how they're positioning their brands in particular. Because, you know, I think 10 or 15 years ago I was talking with the CMO of a very well known beverage brand and she was grousing about all of this content that was starting to emerge on, on other platforms and, and how they needed to start playing whack a mole to get it under control. And I thought that was just. No, you don't want to control it. You want to harness and understand so that you can learn how your product is appreciated by consumers and build upon that. Trying to tell someone that they're not getting your brand message because they're not saying exactly what you want oftentimes is that one, an effort and futility and two, you're missing a huge opportunity to grow your business, wouldn't you say?

Mike Westgate (25:57)

Well, I couldn't agree more. I think that's where you do see a separation of the brands that are a little less sacred about how they're going to market on TikTok and saying, you know what, we've written half the brief, but the other half needs to be written by the community or the creators. And they'll find new ways of expression, they'll find new recipe ideas, they'll find new use cases. And it's a really cool, illuminating moment when you see it happen. But I think you're hitting on something is that you kind of need to go in with arms wide open and embrace this new consumption and entertainment style that the next generation of customers is showing you how to play, basically.

Peter Vs. Bond (26:31)

Mike, you mentioned the creative brief and I think that's a really great area. I just want to dig down a little deeper on Best in Class. How does the creator come in? At what point does the creator come in to the creative brief? Is it halfway through when you've kind of, you know, par bake the bread for, you know, a metaphor? But at what point do the creators start to really add value to the overall brief?

Mike Westgate (26:58)

I mean, I think it's. There's no silver bullet golden rule here, but I would say if you're getting more than half to 75% of your brief done without the creative input, that might be a mistake. Or should we think about creative briefs in different versions to match the target audiences that we want to reach and then invite those once again, the creators or the voice of authority, those with authenticity specific to that market, help you write the rest. So I think the earlier the better is the moral of the story.

Shree Rajagopalan (27:26)

So Mike, we kind of said brands should take advantage of creators knowledge of the ecosystem and what the audience is really looking for. Peter and I could not agree more with you. But do you see that happening in real Life? Are brand VPs and brand leaders, or even agencies for that matter, who do most of the creative on behalf of the brand? Are they reaching out to creators to understand what they should focus their campaign on TikTok on?

Mike Westgate (27:53)

I think you see a mix a year ago, I would say sellably, but I think you're seeing a mix now, inviting creators in earlier once again in product roadmap discussions and early campaign planning, concepting, you know, McDonald's, Poppy, Wingstop, they're all doing this. They're working with these creators to even as like almost in in home in kitchen chefs to help them figure out what would this campaign look like. And they're also not just stopping at creators but those brands, those that I mentioned are leaning into the comments section as their new focus group. So comments are now equaling commerce. An example is the seasonal cranfizz flavor for Poppy. The comments section was flooded with demand to make it an evergreen product so they kept it on the shelves. McDonald's brought back the the snack wrap based upon TikTok comment demand. Jimmy John's they didn't just bring back the Kickin Ranch, they brought it back for the song to make it like a TikTok unveiling moment which was super cool. So I think there's ways for brands to think about how do I use creators to inform my roadmap and my go to market strategy, but how am I using real time feedback from the audience as well? The community is telling me what they like and what they don't like.

Peter Vs. Bond (29:10)

Mike, how's TikTok enabling brands to to maybe through large language models to understand that that sentiment that's coming, you said live in the comment section. How are they able to do that at scale and really uncover those little nuggets of value that can help them innovate, extend, whatever?

Mike Westgate (29:32)

Yeah, that's a great question actually. Perfect. Cue. We we are rolling in a market a new insight suite. We call it TikTok market scope, which measures not only how are you performing at different levels in the funnel versus benchmark or competitors, but what is the sentiment within each of those stages about your brand, about your product, about your category, what are the keywords and searches happening around your brand to inform your keyword strategy and then where should you invest more to move those target audiences through the funnel faster with consideration ad targeting and so forth. So we continue to expand our tools that are both on platform and off to make sure that we are informing brand, helping them keep up with the speed of culture, helping them find creators and helping them find new audiences to reach.

Shree Rajagopalan (30:18)

You know all the examples you gave there, whether it was Wingstop, they're all retailers of some format, McDonald's because they reach the audience, reach the lower funnel directly. My concern always on talent. Whether the talent exists to understand this entertainment platform, the social platform, the new digital creator has been with the larger brands, the large market cap brands who largely rely on retailers for their distribution and whether they are taking advantage of such platforms. So are there large brands that get the plot are truly Engaging with creators and doing things on a routine basis.

Mike Westgate (30:59)

Yeah, Liquid IV is a great example. So they, they launched their sugar free hydration multiplier on TikTok as an exclusive period. Very similar to what we saw with, with Mars. And then they used our TikTok shop ads or GMV Max, which does automatic and optimization around placement and targeting and creative selection. And they saw 71% boosted total performance. 71% by using these automated tools and launching exclusively on TikTok and then 10,000 orders across their other platform. So they saw a tremendous halo effect by going to market with a kind of preplanned, prepackaged product, but creating that sense of exclusivity for the creators and the audience.

Shree Rajagopalan (31:43)

And so based on what I just said to you, what are some of the biggest misconceptions you still hear from brands about TikTok? And then let's flip that and say, what's your advice back in return for them?

Mike Westgate (31:55)

Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a great question. The first misconception, I think that hopefully we'll squash this one in 2020. But it's just for kids. It's a kids dancing app, right? Our largest demographic and is the fastest.

Shree Rajagopalan (32:09)

Growing is Paparaj has 140,000 followers.

Mike Westgate (32:12)

There you go.

Shree Rajagopalan (32:12)

I don't know, I'm not a kid. Am I a kid?

Peter Vs. Bond (32:14)

Peter, what do you think you're a kid at heart?

Mike Westgate (32:15)

Sri Age is a state of mind, right? Yeah. 45 plus is our largest and fastest growing demo on the platform, 21% year over year. So that's to think that it's just, we're just trying to reach kids to buy products. That's a complete misconception. Now 170 monthly active users. The second is that you gotta wait it out and see there is no time but the present to get started. There are still early mover advantages for brands and some are afraid to fail. TikTok is a very, very dynamic and forgiving platform. A good story is sweet Lauren's TikTok username mishap. Did you guys hear about this Sweet Lauren's brand? One of the social media members went in and accidentally changed the handle name to her name, Ryan and you can't change back for seven days. So they used it as like awareness gold and they created kind of like a little fun play out of it and you know, very like humble about how they went back in the market to admit the mistake. They increased their followers 30%. They got two and a half million impressions on TikTok during that seven day window when they couldn't change it back, they got another million impressions on LinkedIn announcing that they made the mistake and then they increased their website sales 46%. So talk about turning, you know, a potential mishap into gold. That's a perfect example. Like just lean into it and then. Yeah, as I mentioned, Sree, what are.

Peter Vs. Bond (33:44)

We changing our name to? That's all I want to know. We got to come up, we got to figure out what we're changing the CPG guy's name to. I love that.

Mike Westgate (33:51)

Can you replicate this? The creators?

Peter Vs. Bond (33:53)

Absolutely. Okay, so as we close out our conversation, Mike, if you had to summarize the future of commerce in one phrase or a prediction, you know what, what, what's your perspective on that?

Mike Westgate (34:06)

I, I would call it surround sound because it's not a one, it's not a one dimensional go to market strategy. It's not a one channel strategy. It's not a one advertising channel strategy. It is thinking how do I surround the user where they are with messaging, product inspiration and ideas about how to engage with me as a brand and then how do I turn online behavior into offline demand? So not just once again thinking through, I'm going to sell this on TikTok shop. But if I'm going to launch a product, maybe we tease it out through creators on TikTok and use those proof points to go back to our retail partners to drive better merchandising, more promotional features and so forth. So I think you got to be thinking with an omnichannel strategy when you're thinking about the future of commerce on TikTok.

Peter Vs. Bond (34:55)

How cool.

Shree Rajagopalan (34:56)

How awesome. I was hoping Peter, when you asked him for a prediction in one phrase, he'd say the CPG guys. But I think you and I have to work harder. We need another 460 episodes to hit a thousand, Peter. That's what we got to work on. But thank you.

Peter Vs. Bond (35:09)

Sri, I'm only at like 300 followers on TikTok. You need to throw some of yours my way. Come on, Paparaj, come. I think that's what I'm gonna.

Mike Westgate (35:18)

I'm gonna be. Just change your name.

Shree Rajagopalan (35:19)

I think Mike gave the secret away today. Just be a digital creator, man.

Mike Westgate (35:23)

Cheat codes, change your name.

Peter Vs. Bond (35:25)

All I know is that the name's gonna have the word Raj in it. That's all I know.

Shree Rajagopalan (35:29)

There you go. That may be one way but fun conversation today and education, educative conversation today. Let me thank audience for listening to this episode. Leave us a rating and review On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, your favorite listening platform. Feel free to post about it on TikTok. It informs us how we're doing as well as if we're having the right conversations with the right people. To all of you, thank you from Peter and me. You make the show happen to all our sponsors, whether this episode, our parties, events, hosted dinners, having as the panels. Thank you, thank you, thank you Peter. Always fun doing this with you. Give me the big takeaway from this episode for you.

Peter Vs. Bond (36:03)

TikTok isn't just about a vanity play for brands. It actually can drive volume at retail retail and TikTok has built the measurement mechanisms to prove that out. So brands need to be getting involved. But don't be scared of it. Don't be afraid. Get in there, test it, figure out what works. It is very forgiving. If you don't get it right the first time, that doesn't mean you're not going to get it right the second or the third time. But it really is about driving actual volume. And I got to tell you, Sri, you and I've talked about this a lot. In 2025, brands are desperate for volume in physical retail and TikTok can be a way to help them build new households, grow their market, and ultimately address their key volume pains.

Shree Rajagopalan (36:51)

Right now you know, you've covered the platform and volume, so I'm going to go a little bit deeper into what Mike said about creators themselves. Take advantage of the social cred, the street cred, as well as the knowledge creators have of their audience and what today's consumer is actively spending time on and staying engaged. Use that as one of your several inputs to actually build your campaign. Especially if you've decided to use a creator, always take their advice on how to build the campaign as opposed to force printing a brand way of doing something built for the 1980s, a process built for the 1980s. You know, I feel pretty strongly about that largest brands in the world were built for the 1980s theory of, you know, hitting middle America and getting great reach. But now it's not a question of growth, it's a question of survival. Be with today's times. Mike, thank you for joining us this afternoon to record this episode of the CPG Guys.

Mike Westgate (37:51)

I enjoyed it. Thanks so much for having me, guys.

Shree Rajagopalan (37:53)

That's a wrap of this episode of the CPG Guys.

Mike Westgate (38:01)

Foreign.

Peter Vs. Bond (38:19)

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