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- [00:00]
A
Hey, it's PVSB with the CPG Guys. You know, we talk a lot about this on the show. For CPG marketers today, it's not just about reaching consumers. It's about connecting with them meaningfully at every touch point. Here's the reality. Shopping isn't just an event anymore. It's woven into daily life. And with consumers spending over 90 minutes streaming content, daily entertainment has become central to the shopping journey. Amazon ads unifies commerce, entertainment and open Internet to reach 86% of US households, turning trillions of consumer signals into powerful results both on and beyond Amazon. So visit advertising.Amazon.com to learn more.
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B
Hi, this is Joe Mueller. I'm the VP of industry and Customer engagement for Kellanova and you are listening to the CPG Guys Podcast.
- [01:00]
A
Welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. Your hosts Sree Rajagopalan and Peter Vs. Bond explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in an increasingly digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG guys.
- [01:20]
C
Hello and welcome to the CPG guys. I'm of course Sri, your co host and also CRO and co founder of ThinkBlue Consulting, your trust trusted partner in your omnichannel development journey. Get in touch with me at shreenkblueconsulting Co. Please do listen to my older daughter's music at www.rearaj.com who's on tour 12/2-5 Cities and follow laraj. My younger daughter is a member of the world's fastest growing global girls group Cat's Eye. Winner of an MTV VMA this year, two Grammy nominations, one for best new artist and on tour across the US this winner. I'm joined today by my co host and co founder pbsp Mr. Peter Bond who also moonlights his head of industry client engagement as Flywheel Commerce acceleration division of Omnicom. How are you feeling this morning? I heard you had an abnormally late night yesterday. What's going on?
- [02:08]
A
I did sri. I ventured up into territory that you you find to be a little bit cursed. It's in the in the shadow of Fenway park in Boston, I was at the MGM Music hall along with my six and a half year old daughter Nadia and we attending the Cat's Eye concert. And thank you to Lara, Raj and the whole Raj family for making that all possible. Nadia was dressed up as a K pop demon hunter. We had lovely seats in about the 10th row, right dead center. And at exactly 8:30 on came the band. It was a phenomenal show and it was capped off with us heading backstage to meet with Lara and If anyone follows me on Instagram, you can see the picture that I, I took with Lara and Nadia. So Sree, it was, it was a very late night, but my daughter's very first concert experience couldn't have asked for a better concert. And the connection to the Raj family, so meaningful. So, yeah, I'm doing great. Sri, as the answer to your question.
- [03:20]
C
I hear you might be one of the only people that got to go backstage and meet Katseye yesterday. So well done.
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A
There were just a couple. There were just a couple of us.
- [03:28]
C
All right, so for our audience, make sure you're subscribing to our podcast on your preferred listening platform where you can get a latest episodes and go back to consume some of the whopping 540 plus episodes we've already published. Five and a half years in the making. That's. That averages a hundred plus episodes a year, Peter. And if I divide it by 52 weeks, man, we put out two episodes every single week consistently. For those of you that follow us, and if you don't and you're listening to this, maybe you should, because now we're three episodes a week. Every Tuesday, we have the E Commerce the Commerce riff by Peter and Sree, which talks about four industry happenings from the previous week that we think is worthy of conversation in our industry. So today's episode is all about purposeful engagement, industry engagement, retail engagement, AKA customer engagement in the CPG and retail industry, driving partnerships with trade associations, engaging retail in meaningful conversations for developing the future of our industry, ensuring that as the industry transforms, reality is understood and absorbed. I can't think of a better person here that I've ran into several, several industry engagements and conferences and events in a past life and in my current life as a Think Blue and CPG Guys person. So let's welcome to the show Joe Buller, Vice President of industry and customer engagement at kellanova, to the CPG guys. Mr. Joe, how you doing?
- [04:53]
B
I'm doing great and I am excited to be on the CPG Guys podcast and it's good to see you, Peter. And so I know I've run into you a number of times and I said it's exciting to be able to kind of share a perspective from the industry and kind of where Kellanova is in that, in that journey. So looking forward to the conversation.
- [05:10]
C
We're excited to have you as well. We'll include in the digital show notes of this episode, links to your LinkedIn profile, and that of course, of Kellanova. And let's jump into the Conversations we've prepared for today. All right, so Joe, you got quite the, quite the interesting title, right? It says VP of Industry and Customer engagement. What does that mean? So audience can understand what is your remit? Who all do you work with at Kellanova? Who all do you work with in the industry? How often are you up and about? Tell us what a day in the life of Joe looks like.
- [05:39]
B
Yeah, a day in the life is different. So, you know, I've been with Kelanova over 33 years, you know, and largely in the sales side of it for a number of the years. The last five, six years have been in this role. And really the whole idea is how do we work more strategic with retailers? So, you know, internally, I've worked years with all the folks, know a lot of the folks there and have met, you know, different suppliers across the group. Really, it's more around how do we think like a retailer, how do we be more strategic with engaging? So as we think about purposeful engagement, how are we engaging with retailers on purpose and with a purpose? So it's not just we meet them at a trade show, we talk about the same sort of thing. You know, three months out. Every single retailer that I've engaged with across the country and we engage with every single one of them that sells groceries is they want a longer range plan. They want to, you know, they want suppliers to come to them and talk to them about how do you help us with trips and households and baskets, how do we be different? And in a world where the shopper is changing so much in how they're. Whether they can order it online or have it picked up or, you know, they're getting inspired from Instagram, you know, from Instagram or from TikTok or from ChatGPT. There's just a lot of change. And so the remit is really, how do we work with, you know, the FMIs and the, you know, the NGAs and the CGAs and all this different associations that retailers attend as well as curated events that we do with retailers and how do we show up a bit different? The whole idea is how might we be different? And that's really what we. I mean, the last five years of my life has been how do we make people think a bit differently about how we engage?
- [07:16]
C
Joe, for the purpose of our audience. Could you explain what FMI is? Because not everyone here is brand or retailer like you and me. Many of them are service providers.
- [07:24]
B
Yeah, a lot of acronyms in this business. You know, FMI is the Food Marketing Institute and What that really means, it is the largest grocery association out there where retailers all come together twice a year and meet with suppliers in a version of, call it speed dating. But it is really the association that's working with the government on big topics, you know, you know, kind of like with the, you know, the red dyes and some of the other pieces. They're also working with them on credit card fees and other things. But it's very retailer focused. You know, one of the things we find at these associations is sometimes suppliers, we think about ourselves and what we have to face. And when you start thinking more like a retailer, they worry about a much bigger piece of how technology is changing, how the shopper is changing, how they create an experience in their stores. And sometimes we're worried about selling that next display, which is incredibly important. But the more that we think about where they're going, and these associations help with that. And it's also a great place to be able to engage with retailers and then lay out kind of your annual strategy from a year perspective. So we'll meet at a conference called Midwinter in January, and we'll meet with 30 different retailers at a high level and be able to lay out a strategy. And it's also, at that point, you can talk about what you worked on and then where you're going over the next three and four years.
- [08:45]
A
Joe, welcome to the CPG Guys podcast. Would you be surprised to know that you're now going to be the seventh episode of our podcast featuring Kellanova thought leaders? It's interesting if. If you go back and you look, I'm gonna talk a little inside baseball to our audience. If you go back, for the first four years, there were no guests from Kellanova. And there's a reason for that. My dear, sweet and wonderful BFF partner Sri, he worked for at the time, General Mills. And part of the negotiation with them being, okay, having him on the podcast was there were a couple of requirements, one of which was there were four named companies, major competitors of General Mills, that could not appear on the podcast. And one of them was, at the time, Kellogg's. And obviously, as you. As you separated from the W.K. kellogg Company, Kellanova became. Became part of that equation. I remember running into Julie Bowerman at a Cornell event in 2022. And I'd known Julie from her Coca Cola days. And she. I was trying to fastidiously avoid her because I was afraid of the questions she was gonna ask. And sure enough, she cornered me and she goes, it looks like you're Trying to avoid me. I wanna know when I can come on the podcast. And I had to tell her I couldn't have her on. And she said to me, okay, but the minute that that ends, I expect a phone call from you. And so about a year and a half later, I, I picked up the phone and I called Julie and answered and she said, I assume you're calling because I can come on the podcast. And I said, you're absolutely right. So we're, we are, we are now so incredibly happy to have had so many great people from Kellanova, you, Carrie, Julie, so many others. So I always love to tell some of the behind the scenes to our audience so they can understand because there are a lot of people don't understand. Like, why don't you have certain people on your podcast? And it really has little to do with, in this particular case, we were somewhat restricted, but generally it has to do with them that they or their company decide, no, we don't, we don't want to appear on a podcast. So we ask everybody, we want everyone to come on and talk to us. It's just, it's tough getting people on. But sorry, I didn't mean to go down that rabbit hole. I just thought this was an opportune time. So we are very happy to have you as a thought leader on board, Joe. And we hope if you're going to. Cesar, like any brands and retailers are out there, SRI and I are going to throw a big kickoff party on Monday, January 5th at Area Resort. Make sure to stay tuned to this channel to learn more about that big party. It's usually a humdinger. We have some great people. I know, Joe, you were there last year and it was a lot of fun. But, But Joe, you recently penned a white paper for mass market retailers focused on the shopping experience. Can you talk to our audience about what kind of motivated this piece and what you were hoping to get out of it?
- [11:44]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And I think just to build on is it is great to be some of the leaders that we've had on. So it is great to be a part of that and it is great to share some of the strategy that we've done. And also as a plug for ces, it's not a space by which a lot of folks go. Every year now for the last three years, we've actually hired a guide to take us through the floor. Obviously the retail media networks are there and it's becoming more of that destination. So for your listeners, as they think about why would I go to an electronic show. And I would challenge the group is why would you not? And what we did last year is we actually took fmi, cga, nga, nfra, some of the associations, and I took them on the tour with us, and we're opening it up to, you know, how do we get some of the retailers to walk with us? Because it's not about a competition. It's really where is the industry going. And the curated tour we get is focused on all of that technology that is grocery focused and where AI is. So anyway, you brought up a ccs and it's a bit of a passion.
- [12:44]
A
It's absolutely true. You know, most people think of CES as to your point is that electronic show, the big TVs, the headphones, everything that's over at the convention center. But there are other activations around ces. I should say to our audience, anything that has to do with like, food prep and appliances, there's a huge exposition over at the Venetian. Everything that really has to do with retail, media networks and consumers is focused around the aria. So if you're a CPG brand and you're not going to ces, I think my question is what you said, Joe, which is, why not? There's so much to learn there at. Anyhow. So let's get back to the article you wrote for mmr.
- [13:25]
B
Yeah, the article was we've been talking about occasions and experiences and part of when MMR approached me and talked through it, which was, you know, what is it you're really trying to say? And as we think about where the world is morphing and how people are shopping, and whether you're shopping online or you're shopping in store, are you shopping because you want to or because you need to at the, at your, at your local shopper, right? Where, you know, what's the experience that they're creating? We're seeing, you know, more and more folks, especially Gen Z, move to retailers that are more like a Trader Joe's and a Whole Foods and, you know, and some of those even a Costco, where they create that experience and then they're ordering online or they're, you know, they're, they're craving that experience. You know, we're seeing a great retailer in Charlotte that like Lowe's Foods, right. The way that they talk about it is they're an entertainment company that happens to sell groceries. So as you're thinking about why are people wanting to come in or get on your app versus just go to chat cbt, and find the cheapest prices and go somewhere else. That is really the impetus of what I want to chat about is that whole green, you know, that the grocery experience has become a sought after experience. They want to enjoy going shopping for groceries.
- [14:38]
C
So Joe, obviously industry has changed quite a bit, you know, in terms of shopper experience and you started getting into the motivation. What do you think has driven these changes in shopper behavior? The last, let's say, you know, I'm not going to ask you to go back 10 years but Covid was a black swan moment in the industry. So what's been happening since that? And now we hear this word AI all the time. So what's driving these changes?
- [15:02]
B
Well, what we're seeing is, you know, not, not even the younger generation, but general, you know, everyone that's shopping is, is thinking about their shopping experience and they're using tools that weren't available even two or three years ago. You think about where chat GPT is and can make a grocery list and give you inspiration. You know, we're seeing, you know, you know, people thinking about, you know, how do they get, where do they get their ideas from? We know like the average meal, the average person is only thinking about what's for dinner at 4:00, but they're using the tools and the AI and all of that to make the shopping experience a bit better. Plus the advent of delivery and pickup allows you to shop multiple retailers and you know, you can, you only have to go into the stores that you really want to and the rest you can get in different ways. And it's also, it's, it's a little bit of the changing of how the consumer is. They're expecting to be able to get what they want, where they want, when they want it. And it's also opening up challenger and emerging brands that you would get online or you know, through like, you know, the, the TikToks and others that maybe you wouldn't see at your local grocery store. So you're seeing that dynamic change in such a way and as retailers are trying to figure that out, how do we make sure that while price is super important, AI is allowing you to scrape the Internet, you know, find the best prices, allow more cherry picking of retailers. And obviously that's not, you know, the, the perfect world for us. We want to make sure that we're working with retailers to have those folks and bring programs to life and do that in a way that's more meaningful. You're seeing those, when you go into stores today with simple meals and prepared meals, you can go in and grab and then get out. You're not necessarily doing these huge stock up events all the time. You're looking for, hey, I need solutions and how do you make it simpler for me? And that is what the shopper, even as we project a year or three out, that's only going to get a bigger demand against what that shopper is looking for. And either we meet that need or they're going to go to the place that they do get a need it. And what retailer will that be?
- [17:07]
C
And so Joe, one of the things that stop a mind for me now is where the industry is morphed quite a bit is in last mile delivery for shoppers convenience. There are these new players like DoorDash, Uber Eats, I shouldn't really say no. They've been around a while. But the way they've impacted grocery now has certainly changed in the last, let's say 24, 36 months. And what do you think about those Joe? Do you think those will continue to grow? Especially when it comes to like convenience snacking, impulse based categories, I need it now categories and even the stock up trip for that matter.
- [17:42]
B
You know, part of like Even we mentioned CES and we meet with Instacart and DoorDash there and obviously we call on them like a customer. But you're only gonna see that expand from what we hear, right? Because in a world where you can now use Instacart and go and you can shop, you know, all the retailers on their platform you can, you know, you can have different things there and it is more convenient. DoorDash today still seems kind of like the, you know, the after hours piece but it is growing. Right? So you're seeing like what we see DoorDash do for us is a lot of that late night, you know, after the store is closed. But we're even hearing Doordash is, you know, working with retailers to after the retailer is closed they find ways to, you know, open the back door and the doordashers can get things from their retailer even at late night hours. And so it's, you know, I think you're going to keep seeing those platforms morph because it is about convenience and they're, I mean while it's a little bit more expensive to get there people there's a value in hey, I don't have to run out and get it. I get it from, I get all the things from the multiple retailers I want. They even make suggestions for you. So we don't see that slowing down the ability that they're how they're using technology to, you know, to do impulse buy and recommend this and hey, you want to do a double dash. All of that I think will continue to morph. And how do we as suppliers and how do we work with our retailers to make sure that we're augmenting that and we're simplifying that and amplifying that, that last mile. Whether the retailer does it or a third party does it, I don't see that slowing down.
- [19:13]
A
All right, Joe, so I think you've provided some pretty good context as to the problem that the industry is facing. What's the answer? You know, from your perspective? How, how should the in. Yeah, I know it's like it's great to sit there and say there's a problem. It's another thing to try and solve it. Right Joe, so what do you think the industry needs to do to shift to meet these changing needs and wants of shopper? Like what, what's, what's the next step?
- [19:41]
B
Well, one of the things is we actually had a great general manager that should be another member on your podcast, but he actually talked about the role of a supplier and there's kind buckets he put it in, you know, one as a marketer, our job is to inspire and put our items out there into the general, you know, marketing world and getting them to have a, you know, create a demand for our product. Right. And then the, the next step is once they're in the retail environment, whether it's online or in store, that's where kind of we need to think differently. And then the, the third component of, of how that is is once they actually pick up our food or pick up what we do, it has to deliver and make them want to come back. So from a supplier perspective, from a, you know, from a corporate perspective, we, we have to own one and three when it comes to that second, that middle spot by which once they have decided they like what we have or they're tempted to see it for however they saw it, once they get into the retailer environment, whether it said it's on their website or whether it's, you know, in store, that's where we have to be different. And I think, I guess the biggest thing to ask is how do we change the way that we've been going to market with. Every supplier goes in and we make our presentation and then it gets into an ad and it's all about us. I think we have to get more comfortable about multi manufacturer, more own brand partnerships. How do you build that Solution for mom, where, hey, we're going to have a watch party for the World cup or for super bowl, they're not going to just walk in and buy a Cheez it or a Pringle. They're going to buy the entire basket. How do we go to the retailer and help talk about that? So one of the challenges I've put out there as to how to be different, because this isn't. There's. I don't have the magic bullet. I guess what I'm talking through is how do we ask them how might we and how we think about it different? But one of the questions I would have put to the group would be, what if the word display, which is the one thing that every supplier wants from every retailer that says, I need one more display and I can make my number if I had another display, I can do this, right? What if we reframe that and use the word experience every time you said the word display and it's just a small reframe. But if you start there and you think about what is the experience that an end cap of my product would be in a store and why would it create an experience and can I pair it with a different manufacturer? What does it tie into the theme of what the retailer is trying to drive? How does that be different? Because we were just with a major retailer two weeks ago and he made a great comment around. He was. I walk into grocery stores today and some they feel like a nascar, right? It's like the experience of NASCAR that I look at all their end caps and it's every sponsor that you would see on a nascar, right? It's all. It's just kind of, you know, they have the store, but, you know, we put all the stickers on it and it's them versus what we. What they're trying to drive for is what is the experience that them as a retailer are trying to give to their shopper? And how do we make sure that all of our displays, all of our ads, all of our digital content is around driving that experience that makes them want to come to my store versus just coming in and looking for the deals. So I think that the biggest takeaway for me is just literally, you know, instead of having just a JBP that everybody has and we, we talk, you know, for that first year and then we semi talk about the next three years, how do you. You have to keep those, right? We're not talking about breaking the. The universe that we have today. Right? We all have to hit a number. We still have to do those things. But where are the inspiration sessions or the inspiration jbp where we truly get in a room and say how do we help the retailer with what they're trying to drive for? How do we create that experience around bringing multi manufacturers together to simplify that solution for mom or for the, you know, for the person shopping for that event? Right. We all, I mean most of the big occasions that happen and people are doing more and more occasion shopping is like the watch party, the summer, the fall football, the holidays. How do we simplify those and build a bigger basket but then be able to talk about, hey, here's everything you can find. So you know, ChatGPT is changing that right today where you can go in and say, hey, I'm having a birthday party for a 10 year old girl. They like these things. It's going to get them a curated grocery list, it's going to pop it into a checklist, it may even tell them where the cheapest prices are for it or put it into a grocer's shopping basket for you, you Right? So that's different. And I think we have to talk about instead of just going in and saying, hey, here's my promotional plan for the year, that still has to be done, but do you reframe it in a way that says here is why it's good for you retailer and here is why it's good for your shopper and the experience about making them want to come into your retail environment online or in store. And how do we think about that differently? And I do think, you know, we even have to get more comfortable with putting own brands into our recommendations. Right. I mean in the 30 years I've been doing this, you know, we would never say, hey, I, I think we should do this right? Like you know, grocers today have great deli dips and you know, great things that they do out of their pieces. Pairing that with branded, I mean that, that is how shoppers shop. And we have to be more realistic about when, when the shopper is coming in and saying I want to buy this occasion or this event or this experience. How do we just make it simpler for them because we're all going to sell more stuff and build a bigger basket. So I think that it's just hard to change that frame of mind for people to go, we've been doing the same thing for the right way, what we think is the right way for how many years and we go in with our deals. But what if like we've done Some, you know, nice things in partnering with Coke and Miller Lite and Kingsford Charcoal and Hidden Valley Ranch, where you're trying to create things that can pair together. And I think there's another, like I said, an opportunity to simplify and amplify that. But it's working in with the retailer to tie into the experience they're trying to create for those that timeframe. You know, World Cup's coming and there's a lot of conversations around. Everybody's got something with World Cup. How are retailers building an umbrella and how do we tie into their programs to amplify it so we all sell more stuff? And so that's a little bit of a build.
- [25:55]
C
Peter, we asked him for a masterclass and a masterclass we got. How about that, huh? So let me remind our audience, we're speaking with Jonah from Kellanova. Joe. So since we started getting into you, you, you've taken quite a bold statement there, which is we need to be even talking about own brands. OWN brands have really made a difference in this industry since March 17th of 2023. What a precise date I'm giving. That was the first time, I think CPG saw a general decline in volume versus year ago for the first time because of all the SNAP EBT cuts and everything that had happened. So let' moving from jbp, a joint business plan to joint value creation for both brands and retailers. So what does a true win win partnership look like today, tomorrow, day after, versus yesterday, which is largely, largely created on trade rates and what behaviors would signal that both the brand and the retailer are moving in the right direction to create value versus just a academic trade rate number?
- [26:58]
B
You know, it's, it's funny. We did a, we call them future food events with a retailer and the very first one I did, they didn't believe. I said, hey, we're going to come in and we're going to talk about the next three years, about where you want to go, where we want to go. And there won't be a PO at the end of it, right? We're not going to ask you for, we're not going to ask you for anything. The idea is to come out of it with four or five work streams that we can work on in a one, two, three year. It might take that long to get there. Their SVP said to me, I don't believe you. And I said, all right. Well, I said at the end of it, I said, go through it with me. And at the end of it, if I have not delivered and I ask you for something, I'll never ask you for another thing, but I can control this. And we did it. And at the very end we got the comment that this was probably the best meeting they've attended in the last five years because it was more about ideation and creativity and getting out there. And I think what's different is having the courage to have those meetings and put yourself in the environment of how do I think about the retailer? We aligned on, you know, the big, their priorities and their we have like four pillars that you know, we kind of aligned on that we can have work streams against and that's what we built today out of today. We have JBPs that are structured and necessary and then we have innovation summits. But what's missing and some, a lot of that is how are we bringing that experience of yeah, innovation is incredibly important and it is the engine that you know, that makes things happen. But are we putting our innovation into the experiences and driving it and getting exposure to it as long as also as we drive our core and it is literally reframing a bit and it is an extra meeting and it's a build on the JBP has to happen. That is the structure by which everything runs. But as we think about that area by which how do we explore and challenge ourselves to think about that and bring in things like own brands, bring in other multi manufacturers because every one of us looks at data, we all know what's in the basket with our products. We all have spouses and partners that you know, if we ask them today how do you tailgate? They're going to tell you how do we help them build those baskets that they get what they want in a faster and simpler way. And it's, you know, meal prep is another great example. Everybody's you know, how do we help the, you know, that group want a meal prep? How do we want to help them think about bringing even a standard seven day a week recipe? How do we make that feel simpler for them? It's bringing those to life and helping the retailer focus on what they're trying to drive and then how do our brands amplify that? And I, that is really the, it's been fun doing those things and we want to do more and we also want to be able to how do we automate that and make it simpler so it's not so hard today because the, the number one question I'll ask you know, retailers is you know, I said, you know, today like we, we sell a ton of crackers and you know, we don't just eat crackers by themselves. You, you know, you put stuff on them. But, you know, trying to go and work with the deli side of the store or the dairy side of the store, you know, those walls, you know, while invisible, are rebarred and concreted because that is the way departments run their business and how they do that. You only have to get to a higher level to say, how do we in a store at least get people to want to. You can't put all these things together in a market. You can digitally, but how might we think about starting simple and building a bigger basket and creating solutions where you can or use some of the technology that's on apps today? When you walk in the store, it can at least say, I want this experience. Here's the four locations to go get it. It's those kind of things that every retailer has a different app or a different way of doing it. And so there's no one answer to say, oh, as a supplier, we're going to do this one thing and here it is, go do it. You have to curate that response almost retailer by retailer. So we're seeing that. So that's why it's. What to go do is to engage and have the courage to have the conversations and the sessions. The answer is going to be in those discussions and what are the work streams that come out of it that both the retailer and the supplier own together. And now we're working on solutions together. It's all about, here's the price negotiation or here, here's your display, go do what you want with it. Right? It's, it's more that integrated collaborative approach that it's hard to do because we've been doing it the same way for a number of years.
- [31:19]
A
Sree the masterclass continues. Joe, I remember hearing your boss, Carrie speaking at a Cornell event a couple years ago and she was describing, I think it's aligned with what you said, which is she said that she's responsible for delivering both the quarter and the decade. So when you talk about building that, that longer term approach, how, how does that dictate Kellanova to engage differently as it talks to its retail customers and goes to market?
- [31:51]
B
Well, and so part of where we've been leaning is in this occasions and experiences work because if we all step back, we have great people that run the day to day and get things done and we have a great group that's thinking for the future. Sometimes the day to day gets in the way, you know, but, but if we Sat back and you asked your listeners, if you truly asked yourself in three years, how do you think you'll be shopping? How do you think your kids will be shopping? And you just put the, how might we make sure that we're ready for that? This isn't a, we're not going to turn the key and today's going to look like this and tomorrow's going to look like that. But what is the evolutionary path over the next three years to make sure that as we find, you know, the consumer that is going to continue to do pickup and online and how do we make sure we're driving impulse and do all the things to give them solutions there? How do we make sure that when you come into your grocery store that it is the experience that you know, it's not just a bunch of random displays up, but that it actually helps you make your shopping experience better? I think that's the conversation is ask if we all, if you put all the right smart people in a room and said, let's just predict where we think it'll be three years out. And we all know that we want to be growing in the, depending on the supplier, you know, 3% and sometimes it's 18 to 20. We all get lofty goals. We just don't want to get budgeted for them. And, but where is that and what is our cagr with each of the retailers where we think that our brands will fit into their program? You know, the one thing that we sometimes forget is everything that we sell is through a retailer, right? And so we need the retailer to want to be promoting our things. We don't sell anything direct to consumer. We have to partner with, you know, our great partners and the retailers that are there. How do we do that a bit differently than just coming in and saying, hey, here's my product, you know, I want this. That's, that's fundamentally the discussion that has to be different. And it has to change the perception of the folks that are engaging with those retailers from the entire supplier company. It's not just the sales team that has to do it. We have to be thinking about programs that help that retailer deliver their goals.
- [33:58]
C
Yeah, Joe, that change won't happen unless the right people with the right skill sets are in place to effectively bring the transformation forward. So I'd love to ask you, in light of all these changes in the industry shopper behavior that you've already clearly explained what's going on, what do you think are some of these skill sets that a CPG commercial leader needs to learn and sharpen today and tomorrow. Especially as we look into the future of this value creation.
- [34:27]
B
I said it earlier, I think it's literally sitting back and asking the question of, of where does your brands, you know, big brands, little brands, you know, where do they fit into that shopper behavior? And you know, it's how are they using them and being honest with ourselves around when you look at the basket data and saying hey, this is how people are trying our foods, whether we like how they're doing it or not, this is how they're purchasing them and then start from there and saying how might we build out programs and bring in the right other multi suppliers or the, the own brands that we chatted with and actually start presenting those out. It's still, it's still the same kind of, you know, we got, you know, you're meeting with the buyer but instead of just talking about us and that one brand, it's talking about how we can drive that larger basket across the, the entire store as well as making the category which is where our buyers are making their category grow. And, and is a lot of the breaking down the barriers is having the real conversations. You know, we were chatting with another retailer that is, you know, want to work on their non food items. And something even more provocative is I work with a number of different pet companies and we're seeing the humanizing of pet and so we've never really married the food occasion but they're still buying their pet food. And so how do you make it kind of a treat for the whole family? Well, every time we go shopping or I don't know about you, but every time my wife goes to Starbucks the pup cup is happening or there's gotta be a treat for the dog. And that's just a small example of can we help a retailer sell more of their paper plates and things as we build an occasion? How do we partner with things that says hey buy this and get something that might be more random but the shoppers that you talk to is if you have a great deal on some dog treats and they can buy that and get something over here, those are just provocative things to think about. But we stay in our box that we've been and if you think about what's really in the basket it when they're shopping online or you know in store, there is true nuggets in there to uncover that can make us think a bit different. Right. You know, being a little, a little out there, it makes that shopper go wow, this they really think about Me and they're thinking about where I'm at. So I love it. I'm going to keep shopping here because they give me really good solutions. And it's simple, it's having the conversation. So I would love to sit and say we have the perfect answer. It is literally continuing to have those conversations and building the formats outside of your normal structure to where you gotta keep the, you know, the car on the road or the, you know, the ship on the lane. But how are we having those conversations that allow us to be move the needle a little bit every time and see where it takes us? Cause I do think it's a little bit more fun to do that sort of thing than the day to day. Cause we can see growth coming and it's long term growth. It's the planning for today and the quarter and making sure that we deliver the decade.
- [37:30]
A
Sree, where does Bala sit in the pecking order of the Raj family household? Bottom of the bottom of the hierarchy. Maybe a little bit higher. Where is Bala?
- [37:41]
C
The answer lies in Instagram and TikTok. You can see she has stolen a place in my heart. But he said something very profound, Peter and I want to make sure. Have you experienced it?
- [37:50]
A
The pop cup, the pup cup that's.
- [37:52]
C
In Bala's life every week now.
- [37:54]
B
But that's an experience, Right. So if you think about why, like the loyalty that my family has to Starbucks because of the silly pup cup is big. Right. It's kind of the loyalty.
- [38:07]
A
Think about when you're walking down, down the little commercial, commercial section of your, your town. Right. The, the, the storefronts that have a bowl of water sitting out front for dogs to drink on. Those are the ones that you're gonna walk in that store. You're just gonna do it if you've got a dog.
- [38:26]
C
Yep.
- [38:27]
B
And I think that puts a pin in as we reframe and think like that's now common in what we do. If there is, to your point, if there is a pup cup or a bowl of water and it's round, you gotta go and at least check it out. Right. But you're creating an experience for the whole family. And with dogs especially, I mean, I know there's a prevolution of cat dads and others that are out there, but as you think about our pets, it's, it's just an interesting way to think about that differently as you kind of put that lens on how we create experiences with our current brain. Because it is, I mean, it drives behavior, it drives trips, it drives A household, it drives traffic all for some whipped cream and a little cup. And you get it through the drive through. And the loyalty that that creates is amazing. That's a great example. The Costco hot dog. That thing's come out a number of times that drives loyalty in a way that I just spent all this money at Costco, but I get a great deal on a hot dog on my way out. It's those little experiences that, how do we do more of that and drive that loyalty with our retailers, make them want to come use their, you know, their retailer format, whether it's online or in store.
- [39:36]
C
No worries at all, Joe, because in this household, I am a cat dad of three and a pup dad of one. Peter, why don't you close it out with the last question?
- [39:44]
A
I will. I will also make reference to the fact that Shree, with three cats, you are precipitously close to being called a crazy cat lady. Okay, I, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just letting you know.
- [39:57]
B
Do you have a, do you have a pet?
- [39:59]
A
I, I, I had a, I had a Norwegian elkhound. Tova was 14 and a half when she passed away last year, and that was very, very. But lived a great life, and she was priority number one in our household. So miss her, Miss her very much. Miss her every day. That said, okay, Joe, let, let me close this out. Looking, Looking to the future. What are you focused on? What's got you excited and what is leaving you with? Borborigmus, for those of you who don't aren't familiar with the word, it's one of my favorites in the English language. It's the sound of intestinal grumbling. So, Joe, what, what's, what's giving you. Ajita, what's. What do you like? What, what, what do you see in the future that's giving you hope? What's giving you a little, Eh, we got to be worried about that.
- [40:46]
B
I would tell you. And, you know, so, you know, after doing this 33 years, you can take two. You can take two sides. Oh, gosh, everything's, you know, going to hell in a hand basket. Or is there opportunity? I would tell you where I sit today. It is more exciting today and where it's going than anywhere like that I've had in the past because it's unknown and no one has the answers. You know, back 10 years ago, we knew the playbook. You could do this, and it did this here, the playbooks, you know, we're building the plane as we're flying it as we're thinking about that changing consumer as we see generations. We're seeing the blending of different cultures, right. Even multicultural. That's blending even more where they're expecting. You know, you don't have such independent smaller grocers. They're expecting their bigger grocers to carry. You know, a lot of those multicultural items. You're seeing mainstream pick up. You know, a lot of the Hispanics like spices and things and bringing that mainstream. I would tell you it is exciting. I think the, the, the areas of growth and opportunity to you know, simplify and you know and drive better occasions for the shopper is got legs all day long and how you bring, you know, we're seeing retailers bundle things together where hey, you can have a Super bowl party, you know, for $60. But you know what comes out is it's $6 per person so you can bring value and creativity to that. You're seeing things like that. I think the, the heartburn is the rate of change and how do you change a structure that we all know, right? The, it's the inter department pieces that are within each retailer. It's the different suppliers and the way that we've gone to market. You know, it seems really simple, right? In my head I'm already past it. We're there and what we've realized is, is that you've got to. How do you bring people along to drive change? You know, something as simple as the, the ads today, whether it's digital or on paper, it's the floating box of the one supplier, you know, image and it doesn't even show the flavors and it's a price point point. Well, AI is going to scrape that and it's now going to be cherry picking. If we can't figure out how to think about driving experiences and using digital space and ads to bring that sort of experience together that makes you want to inspire you to go in to the store. Then AI is just going to give everybody the best price and you're going to go to five locations and pick up your the cheapest stuff and nobody. That's not, that's not long term for anyone. And so I guess the biggest heartburn is how, how do we. I've been, we've been pushing it, driving that true change is, is been harder and slugging through mud than I really anticipated. No one disagrees with the, the concept of what I put out today. You know, every time I've brought it up now probably 300 times to different retailers. If there's Anybody on the call that knows me, persistence is a, is something that I've made a career out of. The biggest opportunity is how do you tip the bucket and what, what makes that thing become more mainstream. Not just nice to do or we'll do one offs but it becomes a conversation just like we have with a jvp, right. And do more of that. That's probably the part of like driving that, that true change and making people like oh my gosh, let's drive it. That that's really in that's hard to do. And we know, I mean change is hard, right? If it was easy, it would have been done before. So I don't know if that answers the question or if you want to build on it, but I just, that that's where I, you know, the world is growing and it's super fun and it's going to be very different in the retailer environment with AI and ChatGPT, all that is super exciting. It's how do we get organizations to get there and get there faster and do it with our retailer partners?
- [44:26]
C
Couldn't have said so better myself. Speaking of conversations, thank you for this terrific conversation. Let me thank audience for listening to this wonderful episode. Do leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts, Spotify or your favorite listening platform, whatever it might be. It informs us how we're doing as well as if you're having the right conversations. To all of you, thank you, thank you from Peter and me. You make the show happen to all our sponsors. Whether this episode or parties, events, hosted dinners, having us at panels. Thank you, thank you, thank you Peter. Fun doing this with you. Episode over episode. What's your summarize this in one big takeaway for our audience please.
- [44:59]
A
Yeah Shreya. It's simple but profound. When you talk about displays, it evokes the fact that you're focused on a short term sales objective. When you talk about experiences, it's something that you can co own and collaborate with a retailer on and it builds long term loyalty. That's going to be a critical element to creating joint value creation. That's my really big takeaway from what Joe shared.
- [45:23]
C
I think for me we asked for a masterclass, we got a masterclass. So let's leave that to the side for one second. But it's the closing of this episode that I find something really to reflect on for everybody in our industry, irrespective of CPG and retail. And that Peter, is we're actually building the plane while we're flying it. None of us can really claim to be experts in this changing world transformational industry that we are in. And we have to be humble enough not to force foot playbooks made in the 80s and 90s and maybe even late 90s into 2026 as we go forward. And that's something people should be very acutely trained to tool. And it stands out in a big way for me. Joe, thank you for joining us on the CPG Guys.
- [46:09]
B
Man, this was great. Like I said, I got a passion about this and it's great to share it. And if we, we can drive change and you know, and kind of take this journey into a whole different place. It's, it's, it's, it's a fun next 10 years.
- [46:20]
C
We owe that to our consumer. Indeed. And that's a wrap of this episode of the CBG Guys Foreign.
- [46:36]
A
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