Oksana Sobol (3:06)

Sure. At the Clorox company we are intensely curious about how people are living their lives at homes. We want to understand their behaviors and their needs and their motivations. That is what sets the foundation of our strategy and innovation. And speaking of our strategy, which is known as Ignite, it is very clearly rooted in what we call four consumer megatrends. They are new wave wellness, home life, redefined, transformed digital engagements and responsibility. This report represents a deeper dive into what we are learning and how we are thinking about the home life pillar of our strategy. So this is our way of sharing our insights with the industry with an eye towards collaborating with our retailer partner with our other various partners on innovation, brand renovation and ultimately bringing better products and experiences to our consumers.

Peter V.S. Bhan (4:11)

Thank you for that summary. Oksana Sri and I were in Orlando last week at the Annual Consumer Analyst Group of New York or the Cagny Conference and Clorox's leadership was there presenting. They made strong reference to the Ignite strategy. And so we got a very great briefing on the direction of the company. And I'm excited to say after my perusal of this report, which we're going to get into in greater detail, certainly fit well into the Ignite strategy. So I can't wait to get to it to our audience. I want to remind them, make sure you toggle over to the digital show notes of this episode. We're going to have a bunch of hyperlinks. They're going to be really great for you. One is Toxana's LinkedIn profile. You can learn more about about her, another one to Clorox's corporate website and the third is going to be to the actual report in question where you can go and actually download it and get get a chance to look at the information itself. So let's get to the questions I've prepared. The first one is going to be around around the shifting from chore based work to self care. The report is showing that emotional outcomes from cleaning are up about 13 points in the last decade and for the first time on par with what we would call more of the functional outcomes. So in your role, how did that finding really land internally at Clorox? And how did it change the way you brief brand and innovation teams on the work that they're trying to get done?

Oksana Sobol (5:42)

It is a big deal for us that for the first time, we are now seeing emotional and social outcomes of cleaning elevating to the same level of importance with consumers as the functional outcomes. Historically, the category has been very much built and marketed around efficacy. So those might be disinfection claims, cleaning performance claims, visible results. Now we are seeing that consumers are equally seeking outcomes like restoring the sense of control, feeling accomplished, feeling like they are keeping up and staying on top of things, alongside of some of the social and emotional outcomes, like creating a welcoming environment and feeling a sense of pride in their home, especially as they might be seeing others visiting. How is this playing into our innovation and our brand strategy? One example of that is the new campaign launched by our Clorox Mega brand, which we refer to as Clean Feels Good. And so, as the name would suggest suggest, this campaign focuses on what are the payoffs, what are the emotional payoffs of cleaning? And we are talking not just about the results here, Peter, but actually the process itself, which consumers are finding enjoyable. So it is the process of cleaning itself that is feeling good. And in fact, the campaign highlights some of the neural learnings that suggest that it might feel as good as petting a puppy or as good as playing your favorite video game. So this is quite a pivot in how the category is being presented towards consumers. And then for innovation, we are paying attention not just into how the products perform against the functional aspects of their job to be done, but also what are they delivering to the consumer in the way of a surprise and a delight. And that might be some type of an sensorial experience, or it might be. Again, how do we help them make the process of cleaning itself more joyful?

Peter V.S. Bhan (7:56)

Well, I'll tell you, it resonates with me. I love going to bed knowing that my kitchen is completely clean. Coming in the morning, it still smells fresh. There's nothing on the counter. Now I know as soon as my 7 year old daughter comes downstairs, the battle is on and it's a whole new day. But I do feel that sense of accomplishment before I go to bed, that everything is nice and organized. So this stuff, brilliant. So in the report you refer to in the Flow Cleaning, it's Now the number one cleaning occasion with cleaning frequency up two occasions per month compared to 10 years ago. So I want you to first define what in the flow cleaning is. But more importantly, how should brands be thinking about product placement, price, pack architecture and even on shelf adjacencies to meet consumers where they actually clean, rather than we assume they were, they were doing the clean air what the occasion was.

Oksana Sobol (8:57)

In the flow means that consumers are accomplishing small bite sized moments of cleaning in the cracks of their day, so to speak, instead of just blocking out a big chunk of their time to go ahead and reset their entire home environment from top to bottom. This is particularly true of the younger generations. We know that the older generations are used to that you set aside part of the day, typically may maybe on a Saturday and do a deep clean. But we we do see in the flow permeating all generations, particularly pronounced among the young ones. So what might that look like? Interestingly, when we observe people in their homes engaging in the flow cleaning, if you were to ask them, tell me what are you doing at the moment? Oftentimes they wouldn't even say I am cleaning. They would say oh, I'm making a pot of spaghetti. And while they are waiting for the water to boil, they are tidying up and wiping their counters or disinfect in quickly after they have just handled a raw meat. So that's what it means to clean in the flow of your day and incorporate it into your other routines compared to a standalone task in itself. The implications of that. Well, one big implications on a product level is that convenience rules the day. If you want to enable people to clean more in the flow, convenience is the name of it. Clorox has done except extensive innovation on this front. As a company that originally brought to market the cleaning wipe over 20 years ago, arguably still one of the most convenient cleaning implements there that enables in the flow, not just because it is so versatile and easy to use, but because it is so accessible. So think about having a canister of wipes on your kitchen counter, in your bathroom, in your car. Oftentimes is where we find it. Another example would be Clorox Toilet Wand, which removes that icky interaction with the brush and replaces it with a more convenient tool. But the beauty of it is that there is no limit to innovating for convenience, because consumers are always wonderfully dissatisfied with how inconvenient things still are. And as wonderful as the toilet wand is, last year we brought another innovation to market which is called Toilet Bomb. And actually that's a name that came from consumers. And that one takes it even up a notch because you just drop it and walk away. There's there's hardly any work involved at all. So that is the product side of it. But you have also asked about how does this come to life in the retail environment and is it changing anything in how the options are being presented to the consumer? So one thing to note, how the category is responding is through the rise of multi purpose cleaners thinking about the amount of shelf space that that is dedicated to them. Oftentimes they are now grouped into their own segment. And these are products that are readily at hand and can be used to accomplish multiple jobs in multiple spaces. Another one is which parts of the shopping experience would you want to maximally streamline and make them efficient? Efficient for the shoppers at the shelf. And that's part of convenience and in the flow of the shopping experience in this case. But where does the shopper actually want to linger and discover and take a look at several different scent options or several different colors and maybe discover something that they did not know exists? So those are, those are some of the considerations that go into how do you redesign the aisle knowing that consumer is moving more into in flow cleaning.

Peter V.S. Bhan (12:48)

Well, I'll tell you, before we got started today, I went and counted how many different places in my household. I have Clorox canisters. And to your point, I have it in four places and it's in both of our cars. That's just the canister. So it's an integral part of our cleaning strategy in the household. So that's good to know. Here's a really interesting fact. Almost a third of consumers think, think that their products are actually disinfecting when they clean, but they're not. That's a significant consumer education challenge that's hiding inside of what we in the business would consider actually a commercial opportunity. So where does the responsibility sit? Is that a brand issue? Is it a retailer issue? Is it a shopper marketing ecosystem? What do we need to do to close the gap and help people understand that whether they are actually disinfecting as they're cleaning?

Oksana Sobol (13:46)

Hmm. So seven in ten American consumers consider disinfection critically important to the health of their household. What behaviors do they engage in to accomplish that? We know that the most commonly treated spaces are kitchen counters, toilets, bathroom sinks, high touch surfaces like doorknobs and light switches. And there are some new behaviors on this front. Like that latter part with high touch surfaces is not something that we have seen extensively prior to the pandemic. It emerged as awareness of how germs are transmitted within the household heightened during that time but consumers maintained that habit now, many years after the pandemic has passed. So that's one of the examples how they incorporated into their lives. Where does confusion exist? Sometimes consumers have blind spots. For example, electronics like phones are also high touch, high germ surfaces. Yet disinfection is not always top of mind, possibly because it happens in a different usage context. We have done work on this during the pandemic to ensure that Clorox products like wipes are compatible with these surfaces. And the fact of the matter is that your mobile, your, the screen of your mobile phone probably has more germs on it right now than a toilet seat. But that has not entered consumer awareness in the same way as the high touch surfaces in their homes. So there are some blind spots where education can be beneficial. And then another common point of consumer confusion is what is really the difference between disinfecting and sanitizing, or claims like antimicrobial claims. This is an area we take seriously because this is an area that is adjacent to people's health. So for Clorox products, we do make sure that it is very clearly labeled where we provide disinfecting benefit, which is the highest bar. And so all of those products have Messages like kills 99.9% of bacteria and viruses. But yes, closing that broader knowledge gap, it's not just solely a packaging issue. It's also about brand communication in store, education, content, and how we engage around key moments such as cold and flu season.

Peter V.S. Bhan (16:08)

All right, now, I'm a crotch to the old Gen Xer, but the report highlights a lot about Gen Z and their. Their appreciation for rebranding chores through, through interesting cultural frameworks. I was fascinated giving the dishes a bath. And of course, as I kind of referenced to in my opening the whole cleantalk phenomenon, how. How is Clark thinking about reaching a cohort that is simultaneously your lightest user and your most emotionally engaged one?

Oksana Sobol (16:43)

At the same time, the two facts that stick out to me about Gen Z when it comes to home care is that one, they have acquired their habits differently than the generations that came prior to them. If we were to ask Gen Xers, boomers, some of the older millennials, how did you learn to clean? Oftentimes they would say, from my parents growing up, we would all clean the house on a Saturday. And that's how I learned what goes where and what the jobs are. Gen Z talks about learning from social media. So if they have a question, they're actually more likely to go to resources like YouTube or TikTok than they are to ask someone for advice. So that is one way in which their habits are influenced. Another one that stands out to me is that nearly half of Gen Z tell us that they are looking forward to cleaning. So 48% say they look forward to cleaning. And this is compared to 18% from the older generations. That is a large gap. And what that means is that they view the activity itself differently. It is that tendency to see it as more bite sized moments that doesn't seem quite so daunting as cleaning everything in one go top to bottom. But also they are possibly inspired by social media engaging with the process itself. One example is what we call oddly satisfying outcomes. And it's just seeing how something that was grimy and cluttered and dusty is transforming right before your eyes. You are seeing the results of your actions right before your eyes. And oftentimes that replicates what people are seeing. On the other part of it is their heightened interest in scent, textures, colors and things like packaging esthetics that enable them to enjoy the process and look forward to interact with the tools involved. So this is the cohort where we see the most experimentation with kind of mixing and matching different products, trying different things on different occasions in terms of how are they lighter users, so their standards are different. They are the group that is most likely to say, you know, easy does it. If I wipe down the surfaces and vacuumed, this is a good enough clean. And that is a high contrast for me, kind of remembering going into people's homes with the prior generations. And people would talk to me about how they take a Q tip and go touch the top of every baseboard with the Q tip. And until that is done, it is the house has not been truly cleaned for them. So it is, it is a real attitudinal reframe. But there's also a life stage component there in that these are younger, smaller households that don't encounter the kinds of masses that come with the arrival of children and pets and larger houses. And so some of it is a function of lifestyle. But we do believe that they will bring their habits and attitudes with them as they enter their next steps in life.

Peter V.S. Bhan (19:57)

So I want to double click down on your last response in that the report devotes significant attention to you mentioned scent ASMR textures. You mentioned oddly satisfying visual cues. How are sensory experiences becoming a legitimate product development and marketing discipline at the Clorox company? And how do you see this creating new shelf segmentation opportun communities at retail?

Oksana Sobol (20:25)

One example of it is the Clorox scentiva line of products. So in noticing that in this historically very kind of functionally and rational benefit oriented category, these new consumer trends were emerging, we gave some thought to what is the clerk's right to play in this space. And the Scentiva line, originally launched under the tagline Works like Clorox Smells Like Paradise. The intent there was to convey that we can break the trade off. You do not have to accept either an efficacious cleaning product or an experiential cleaning product. You could have two in one. The line has since grown to include many scents and many product forms. We have discovered some interesting consumer behaviors in this regard. So, for example, originally we thought that consumers would tend to go deeper into the scent they liked. For example, if you purchased Scintiva lavender wipes and enjoyed them, we thought maybe your next purchase would be a Scintiva lavender spray to complement that. But what we've actually discovered is that your next purchase might be Scintiva coconut spray. So if you liked one scent from the line, you were likely to come and try another one and another one and another one. And. And so that led us down the path of this more nuanced understanding that people will want different scents in different places of their home or even in different moments. Like, do you want a high energy moment to start your day or are you seeking a soothing and relaxing moment to sign off your bathroom for the night? In terms of how does this come to life in retail? So we do see a greater share of shelf being dedicated to experiential products. And consideration goes into factors like designing for the rainbow effect. How does not just each color and scent work individually, but how do you offer the portfolio that leads consumers down the path of how they can apply their own creativity in mixing and matching various options. But then also how do you convey the sensorial benefits? So we've experimented with things like vivid imagery and then also things like providing a scratch and sniff to indicate what the scent actually would be like. The last thing I will say about that is that we are seeing this dynamic now migrating into other places of home care beyond cleaning. So one interesting and maybe unexpected on the surface example is trash bags. And consumers have shown such a fantastic response to the idea that came from Glad with our original Cherry Blossom trash bag, which was in a fun hot pink color, and the great scent, and that was a novel thing in the category. Since then we have expanded to include a Bahama Bliss variety and some others. So this is another growing segment and an example how these experiential benefits are Migrating across categories.

Peter V.S. Bhan (23:37)

Like many people in my generation, I will assume I, I grew up believing that for medicine to be effective, it had to taste absolutely horrible. And for a house to be completely clean, it had had to have an institutional or medicinal smell to it. It's great to see that the younger generation is kind of breaking that, that paradigm and saying, no, you can have the effect of cleanliness, but also have something that reminds you to your point of paradise. So that's, that's very encouraging. Let me remind our audience that today I have the great pleasure of speaking with Oksana Sobel from the Clorox Company. So, Oksana, almost three quarters of the people that you surveyed for this report prefer multipurpose cleaners, yet layering has doubled in the last 10 years. That sounds kind of contradictory. I want multi purpose, but I want to layer my cleaning solutions. The report frames this as sophistication. How do you help retailers and buyers understand that it isn't about cannibalization, it's about category expansion?

Oksana Sobol (24:51)

This is one of my favorite findings, Peter, because it gets at the heart of. Consumers will always say that they want things to be faster and simpler, but that is only half of the story. And the unspoken part is that oftentimes they want a rewarding experience, but you will not often hear the consumer articulated directly. So I love kind of thinking about what am I hearing the consumers are saying, but then what I, what am I actually seeing in their behavior and what we are seeing in layering behavior, what does that, what does that look like? So actually, it's so interesting that you said this notion of what does a clean house smell like and how does that look cross generationally. So yes, to many Gen Xers, boomers, older millennials, a clean house, oftentimes we feel we, we hear it smells like bleach, it smells like pine salt. That's how I know that everything has been cleaned and disinfected. I walk in and the sand is a clear cue that the house is in top notch shape. But for the younger generations, it means it smells like something delightful. And so that's where we have seen some of the first signs of this layering behavior. That consumers would clean with bleach and then they would go over those surfaces again with maybe lavender, Pine Sol or some other product, scented product that they would enjoy. And then sometimes they would go over those surfaces a third time with something that gives them just the amount of shine that they want. And so that's, that's one example of layering behavior in Laundry detergent for cleaning, sanitizer for orders, but then a scent booster for the fragments that you like. We see that in our personal care and beauty categories with brands like Burt's Bees. So one of the kind of extreme consumer trends in that regard on social media is called everything shower. And this is where they take. It's like a spa like experience. While consumers will spend quite a bit of time in their bathroom, essentially putting on all the products that they have, almost one one after the others. It is an element of self expression, ritualistic in personal care, but also now migrating into other places. And it is an expression of what consumers want in the right occasion versus what they will say, which they will always say. We want simplicity, efficiency. And that is true enough in many moments, but then it's important to recognize those moments when they actually want something else, and that something else is experience and reward.

Peter V.S. Bhan (27:31)

All right, let's, let's talk about laundry for a second. 58% of consumers feel satisfied with their laundry outcomes. That tells me 42% aren't as satisfied. And the report is actually pretty candid that consumers haven't hacked the laundry issue like they have general household cleaning. Given that laundry dissatisfaction skews towards younger and multicultural households, what does a winning insight to innovation pipeline look like for this category?

Oksana Sobol (28:01)

In your eyes, laundry remains one of the least in the flow home care tasks. It is true, and this is interesting because if you think about the amount of improvement in innovation that has taken place in washing machines, dryers, the additives that go inside, yet the amount of time and involvement has not really declined for consumers, and that stands in contrast to cleaning. So consumers say, you know, it takes me 60 minutes to wash, 45 minutes to dry, and then 7 to 10 business days to fold and put it away. And you know, it's, it's a joke, but it's a, it's the kind of humor that reflects a real friction point. And so this is especially then heightened by the fact that laundry is a high frequency, high spend category in the store, yet it lacks the emotional reward that we were just talking about. But so in general, we do see this as a space where a lot of unmet needs remain, like simplifying complexity, delivering more noticeable results, solving for items that cannot or should not be traditionally washed. So the dissatisfaction is meaningful and that means that it is commercially viable.

Peter V.S. Bhan (29:17)

I'll tell you, I just wish that I could get my daughter to use the hamper.

Podcast Host (CPG Guys Intro/Outro) (29:21)

Oksana.

Peter V.S. Bhan (29:22)

Instead of it being like this trail of clothing articles that start at the back door and work their way up to her bedroom. It's a constant battle of having to collect it all and then if I could just get that part solved, I would be incredibly happy.

Oksana Sobol (29:37)

But that's, that's just definitely not alone. So I know easier on her and harder on the industry.

Peter V.S. Bhan (29:45)

There we go. All right, so another area is around other family members, notably pets. Right? This, this blew me away. Pet owners, according to your, your report, use upwards of 21 different cleaning products. And I'm not surprised. They clean floors much more frequently. Yet most don't buy separate laundry products for pet related loads. How big is the unmet need here commercially? And, and is the challenge one of innovation? Is it of consumer education? Is it retail shelf organization or all of the above?

Oksana Sobol (30:22)

Oh, you're really getting at the heart of the issue there, Peter. So pet ownership is growing. It is especially growing among younger households. We all know that. We all know that pets bring a lot of joy, but they also bring some very unique pain points that do not exist in households without pets. In the domain of home care, those pain points are cleaning the floors hard and soft surfaces. It seems like in a home with pets, no matter how frequently you clean, the floor is never quite there. Then you've got hair on soft surfaces and clothes, you've got odors. If it's a dog, it's one thing. If it's a cat and it's an e dog cat, then you've got the litter box and then you have germs allergens. So those are some pretty unique pain points. Where we think the answer is is product innovation. However, what you've noted with regard of how do you take that innovation education to market given that you are not talking about kind of the general population consumer where a lot of the go to market CPG go to market tactics are sharpened. So a few examples there. We offer targeted sprays that are designed for cleanup after pet accidents and they're perfect for that. Where do you merchandise that spray? Should it be in the cleaning section? Should it be in the pet that section? How do you position it correctly in either location? Does it depend on the retailer and their shopper? Where it should be? This year we have introduced Clorox Pure which is focusing on tackling allergens specifically in the air and on soft surfaces where they are the most difficult to eliminate. And this is an example of go to market where we are actually housing these products for the first time for, for Clorox in the air care category because that's where they need to be for, for the ones that tackle allergens in the air, but then also for pet owners. How are they going to discover them? How are they going to make the connection that this works on on pet related allergies? Another example still with Pura is we have a partnership with Claritin which enables merchandising in the Allergy OTC section. So trying to reach the consumer via that route, yes, but it still takes quite some thought and importantly partnership with retailers to understand where does their shopper expect to find these types of products and how can we help educate their pet owner households about what's available against their unique pain points.

Peter V.S. Bhan (32:59)

All right. The report also calls out the K shaped economy, right? There's a simultaneous demand for premium very effective products, but also cost conscious option as the middle class is shrinking. How is the Clor company using insights to make portfolio price pack architecture decisions that kind of serve both ends of that spectrum without diluting your brand equity?

Oksana Sobol (33:27)

We see the current environment as one where many consumers are tightly managing their spending on essentials. And in our categories, specifically in home care categories, the main value seeking tactics tend to be buying in bulk and large sizes. It tends to be stretching out use so that the product that they purchased could last them longer. And then, and this is a new behavior that we haven't seen on this scale before, it is switching. But rather than product switching between brands or brands and private label, they are switching between segments or even entire categories. So think about in cleaning you could, you could accomplish a job with a spray or you could accomplish a job with a liquid dilutable product. And that's where we see switching. But we also see it even across categories. So that's how it's playing out for us. And then so knowing this, how are we working with the offerings? So in terms of price pack architecture, I'll provide an example. We recently grew share at a leading retailer and that was by better aligning glad trash bag counts and prices with how habits are evolving as more people spend time at home. So right back to the origin of this report. As their habits change, that in turn should change how packs are configured. And we are seeing in market confirmation of some of those hypotheses. Another one of our favorite tools is what we refer to as design to value, which is this notion of getting really really sharp on what features do people need for a specific occasion and which features are less valuable. They have low willingness to pay and they would rather take value in those cases. So an example, our all purpose spray segment, we have discovered that Disinfection is actually not a top consumer requirement in those occasions and therefore it is not a must have product feature. On the other hand, what they would welcome more of is features that signaled versatility and that might mean something like a clear bottle, a formula that is safe to use around kids and pets. And so we would reallocate our investment from disinfecting benefits into those benefits and, and present the product accordingly. So that's another example of kind of designing to what consumers require in this environment. And then there are. So what I also would offer there is that oftentimes PPA broader initiatives like revenue growth management are considered these heavily analytical disciplines, but they benefit from the lens of broader consumer trends being brought into these decisions. Example of a macro trend, household side bifurcation. So on the one hand you have the rise of the one person household in the United States and this is a remarkable trend where one person home is becoming the most prevalent household structure in the country. So think about what the right product size looks like for that type of household. But on the other type, on the other extreme you have the rise of multi generational larger combined families and chosen families which exist in various configurations. And so it's all pulling kind of from that middle 2.5 person family on average into more diversified structures which dictate different decisions in terms of where you offer products and what, what product configurations you offer. So I think the bottom line there is that understanding how consumer Habit foundation is shifting allows you to make sharper PPA choices.

Peter V.S. Bhan (37:17)

Oksana, you hit on all my favorite acronyms, ppa, rgm. You've put a big smile on my face. I want to close out our conversation with a little bit about the way you go about doing these kinds of reports. And I'd be remiss in any conversation I have today without making reference to artificial intelligence. This report was produced in partnership with Human8, which is explicitly championing kind of the human spark as a differentiator against purely AI driven research. In your role of decision intelligence alongside of insight, how are you thinking about where AI accelerates the work that you're doing? Where human closeness to the consumer replay remains kind of irreplaceable? How do you balance that out?

Oksana Sobol (38:09)

Yes, I appreciate the question, Peter, and I'll maybe offer a bit of a contrarian perspective here is that I don't see it as kind of AI versus human closeness, this dichotomy. So to me the true measure of value of an insight is does it lead to a winning growth idea for the consumer or the business. And if you approach it through this lens, meaning every insight is questioned for its utility to the consumer and the business, then whether it came from a human or from AI or from collaboration between the two, that is not what is interesting or what is important. The conversation does not revolve around how you got there. The conversation revolves around is this an interesting growth idea and how could we bring it to life in market? So that's what we want to engage around. At the same time, of course I acknowledge that AI has been a huge enabler for insights, analytics and data science. I know that you speak to all sorts of business leaders on this podcast and I would argue that these three specific disciplines are actually natives to these capabilities and have been wielding them long before Genai arrived on the scene. So Genai for in science, analytics and Data Science was just another one. Another iteration of AI, which was a highly familiar topic where we see significant benefits is analysis, synthesis, scaled ways of reaching consumers and idea generation. I'll just give you one specific example. Introduction of AI powered tools into signal sensing, tipping point qualification and digital prototyping is what enabled us to cut time in innovation discovery in half. And this happened while tripling the pipeline, the innovation pipeline and achieving higher consumer appeal benchmarks. So at the end of the day it's a wonderful tool. But so long as business decisions are made by people influencing those decisions and shaping out outcomes with the best tools available will remain a core human competence.

Peter V.S. Bhan (40:22)

Thank you. That was a great response. I truly appreciate that. Oksana. My big takeaway from this was the Clorox company in this report has been able to connect insights to relevant actions and outcomes that any retailer who is physical, digital or in between, Omnichannel, Phygital should be thinking about the leadership that the Clorox company is demonstrating in terms of navigation for the consumer and making sure the right products in the innovative pipeline are addressing the needs of today's consumers. So kudos for that. Oksana, thank you for taking time out of your day to speak with us about this wonderful research report. We really appreciate your time and thank

Oksana Sobol (41:16)

you for the conversation and especially your reflections. Peter, it has been a pleasure.

Peter V.S. Bhan (41:20)

Yeah, I'm going to remind everyone listening please visit the digital show notes of this episode. You're going to be able to download the report that Oksana has been talking about with me today. We'll have a link there along with, as I mentioned, her LinkedIn profile and the company's website to our audience of over now 43,000 plus industry professionals who follow us on LinkedIn engage with our content. They the likes the comments. Thank you for supporting this community that we have created. We're not a community without you, so make sure you're following us on LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and now YouTube. That's all we have for you today. We look forward to speaking with you on the next episode of the CPG Guys Podcast. Goodbye.

Podcast Host (CPG Guys Intro/Outro) (42:20)

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