Live from Cannes Lions 2025 with Ebay's Emily O'Hara & Joan's Lisa Clunie

Summary

Podcast Summary: The CPG Guys - Live from Cannes Lions 2025 with eBay's Emily O'Hara & Joan's Lisa Clunie

Release Date: August 6, 2025

In the milestone 500th episode of The CPG Guys, hosts Peter V.S. Bond and Sree Rajagopalan engage in an insightful conversation with two industry stalwarts: Lisa Clunie, Co-Founder and CEO of Joan, and Emily O'Hara, Vice President and Head of Global Brand and Media at eBay. Recorded live from the prestigious Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity in France, this episode delves deep into the evolving landscape of commerce, consumer trust, and the transformative role of artificial intelligence (AI) in the Consumer Packaged Goods (CPG) and Fast-Moving Consumer Goods (FMCG) sectors.

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1. Introduction and Event Kickoff

The episode begins with a brief announcement by Sree Rajagopalan about the upcoming Big Grocery Shop Kickoff Party in Las Vegas, hosted in partnership with Rethink Retail. This event serves as a gathering point for industry leaders to celebrate the onset of the annual Grocery Shop event.

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2. eBay's Position in the Modern Marketplace

Peter V.S. Bond opens the discussion by querying how eBay fits into the contemporary ecosystem, especially given the plethora of diluted marketplaces and publishers. Emily O'Hara responds by highlighting eBay's legacy as the original marketplace with over 30 years of history. She emphasizes eBay's unique position as a human-to-human marketplace that does not own inventory or exploit user data for unsolicited product suggestions.

"We're really looking at empowering our buyers and sellers on the platform."
— Emily O'Hara (04:20)

Emily underscores eBay's commitment to fostering genuine connections between users, differentiating it from other e-commerce platforms that often prioritize algorithm-driven recommendations.

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3. Brand Storytelling on eBay

Sree Rajagopalan steers the conversation towards brand storytelling on platforms like eBay, where community and culture are paramount. Lisa Clunie elaborates on eBay's diverse user base, which ranges from Pokémon collectors to luxury handbag enthusiasts. She stresses the importance of leveraging subcultures, fandoms, and communities to authentically tell eBay's story through the voices of its users rather than traditional top-down advertising.

"How do the voice of the buyers and sellers and the fans really kind of own the narrative and how do we showcase them?"
— Lisa Clunie (06:36)

The hosts and guests share personal anecdotes about discovering cherished items on eBay, reinforcing the platform's role in facilitating meaningful and intentional consumption.

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4. Partnership Between eBay and Joan

The synergy between eBay and Joan is a focal point of the discussion. Lisa Clunie and Emily O'Hara discuss their three and a half-year partnership, which has been instrumental in building consistent brand foundations globally. They highlight the collaborative efforts to define "things people love" and ensure that eBay remains the first choice for consumers seeking both C2C and B2C transactions.

"We're not an agency-client relationship. It's a deep partnership and I think we both believe like we win, like together."
— Emily O'Hara (10:39)

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5. Measuring Success: KPIs and Brand Performance

When questioning about Key Performance Indicators (KPIs), Emily O'Hara emphasizes that eBay's primary KPI is customer satisfaction for both buyers and sellers. She articulates the importance of brand consideration and ensuring that eBay remains a top-of-mind choice for consumers.

"We're just at the start, I mean, three years in, but we're seeing great progress thus far."
— Emily O'Hara (14:18)

Lisa Clunie complements this by discussing Joan's approach to maintaining eBay's brand authenticity while participating actively in cultural moments. She introduces the concept of "modern legends", balancing modern relevance with legendary brand strength to ensure long-term brand health and equity.

"Make sure that our brand foundations feel really strong as you're doing it."
— Lisa Clunie (20:27)

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6. The Impact of AI on Creativity and Personalization

A significant portion of the episode delves into the role of Artificial Intelligence in transforming creativity and personalization within marketing. Lisa Clunie shares Joan's perspective on using AI for prototyping creative ideas, allowing for more dynamic and personalized content creation. She anticipates a split in the creative landscape, where some agencies focus on high-volume, personalized content while others prioritize big, original ideas.

"The creative agencies will start to sort of separate where some will build their whole machine on volume and personalization and some will build their whole machine on big ideas and sort of, you know, the originality piece."
— Lisa Clunie (35:18)

Emily O'Hara discusses eBay's strategy to balance human-centric experiences with AI-driven efficiencies. She emphasizes the importance of maintaining human authenticity in the face of increasing automation and AI integration.

"Keeping human at the center of our strategy is really key."
— Emily O'Hara (31:39)

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7. Future of Marketplaces and Consumer Trust

Lisa Clunie shares her vision for the future of marketplaces, positioning eBay as a platform that prioritizes human connections and joyful interactions over mere transactional efficiency. She contrasts eBay's approach with other marketplaces that focus solely on ease and convenience, highlighting eBay's unique blend of personality and thoughtful engagement.

"eBay is the home of where humans can find other humans over things that they love."
— Lisa Clunie (30:00)

Emily O'Hara echoes this sentiment, advocating for a balance between removing friction in transactions and preserving the serendipitous moments that make marketplaces engaging and delightful.

"We're really creating love, will I love it?"
— Emily O'Hara (35:51)

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8. Responsible AI and Ensuring Consumer Trust

Towards the episode's conclusion, the conversation shifts to responsible AI and its implications for consumer trust. Emily O'Hara introduces eBay's AI transparency measures, ensuring that users are aware when AI is involved in their interactions on the platform.

"We have eBay, AI. So anytime AI is on our platform, you will see it called out explicitly."
— Emily O'Hara (40:45)

Lisa Clunie touches upon the challenges of authenticity in an AI-driven advertising landscape. She anticipates an increase in litigation related to false advertising and underscores the importance of maintaining accuracy and realness in brand communications.

"We're going to have a lot of litigious stuff going on there, I think."
— Lisa Clunie (41:48)

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9. Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with heartfelt thanks to the guests and a reminder to listeners about accessing more content via the CPG Guys' website.

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Notable Quotes

• Emily O'Hara (04:20): "We're really looking at empowering our buyers and sellers on the platform."
• Lisa Clunie (06:36): "How do the voice of the buyers and sellers and the fans really kind of own the narrative and how do we showcase them?"
• Emily O'Hara (10:39): "We're not an agency-client relationship. It's a deep partnership and I think we both believe like we win, like together."
• Lisa Clunie (20:27): "Make sure that our brand foundations feel really strong as you're doing it."
• Lisa Clunie (35:18): "The creative agencies will start to sort of separate where some will build their whole machine on volume and personalization and some will build their whole machine on big ideas and sort of, you know, the originality piece."
• Emily O'Hara (31:39): "Keeping human at the center of our strategy is really key."
• Lisa Clunie (30:00): "eBay is the home of where humans can find other humans over things that they love."
• Emily O'Hara (35:51): "We're really creating love, will I love it?"
• Emily O'Hara (40:45): "We have eBay, AI. So anytime AI is on our platform, you will see it called out explicitly."
• Lisa Clunie (41:48): "We're going to have a lot of litigious stuff going on there, I think."

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Key Takeaways

1. Human-Centric Marketplace: eBay distinguishes itself by fostering genuine connections between buyers and sellers, emphasizing community and personal passions over algorithm-driven recommendations.

2. Authentic Brand Storytelling: Leveraging user-generated narratives and subcultures is pivotal for brands like eBay to maintain authenticity and relevance.

3. Strategic Partnerships: The collaboration between eBay and Joan exemplifies a deep, long-term partnership focused on consistent brand building and mutual success.

4. AI's Dual Role: While AI enhances personalization and efficiency, maintaining human authenticity remains crucial to consumer trust and brand integrity.

5. Future of Marketplaces: The balance between removing transactional friction and preserving joyful, serendipitous shopping experiences will define the next generation of marketplaces.

6. Responsible AI Practices: Transparency in AI usage and safeguarding against false advertising are essential for maintaining consumer trust in an increasingly digital marketplace.

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Conclusion

This episode of The CPG Guys offers a comprehensive exploration of the current and future state of e-commerce, brand-building, and the integral role of AI in shaping consumer experiences. Through the expert insights of Lisa Clunie and Emily O'Hara, listeners gain valuable perspectives on maintaining authenticity, fostering meaningful consumer relationships, and navigating the complexities of a digitally driven marketplace.

Transcript

[Sree Rajagopalan]

If you're planning on attending grocery Shop this fall, make sure to arrive in Las Vegas mid afternoon on Sunday, September 28th. That way you'll be able to attend the Big Grocery Shop Kickoff Party being hosted by the CPG Guys in partnership with Rethink Retail. The party runs Sunday, September 28th from 6 to 8pm Our kickoff party is where all the industry luminaries customarily gather to celebrate the beginning of the of this annual event. If you're a brand or retailer looking to attend or a service provider seeking to sponsor the gala event, email [e-mail] in the meantime, make certain your travel plans ensure your arrival in Las Vegas to join us for the Kickoff Party.

[Lisa Clooney]

Hi, I'm Lisa Clooney, the co Founder and CEO of Joan and I'm joined by Emily o', Hara, VP Head of Brand Global Brand and Media at ebay and you're listening to welcome to the CPG Podcast.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. Your hosts, Sree Rajagopalan and Peter V S Bond explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in an increasingly digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG Guys.

[Peter V S Bond]

Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast live from the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity straight from Cannes, France. I'm of course sri, your co host and joining me today is the other co host, Peter VS Bond. When not on the CPG guys, I'm also CRO and co founder of ThinkBlue Consulting, a management advisory firm focused on omnichannel brands and retail transformation. Please do listen to my older daughter's [e-mail]. that's R H E R A J. My younger daughter Lara Raj is a member of the fast growing global girl group Catseye. The new hit Gabriela is out on all channels. We recently hit episode 500 with Amazon VP of ADS Dana Elton, released on June 18th. Please do check it out on all podcasting platforms. We appreciate you leaving us a review and rating on the Apple Podcast platform. It informs us how we're doing and if you're having the right conversations on this podcast. The CPG Guys were here all week and recorded several episodes with industry luminaries from CMOs to brand and retail media leadership. Enjoy this episode. And now on to our guests. Today, let's welcome Lisa Clooney, Co Founder and CEO Joan and Emily o', Hara, VP Global Head of Brand and Media at Ebay. Today, what we're hoping to cover is the commerce landscape of Consumers Trust. Of course, one of the main themes of why we're here. All of us are here at can alliance which is AI and we want to make sure we can move from it being a buzzword to something meaningful. Personalization, another buzzword to something meaningful. A very important topic. The ethics around AI and how eBay itself is focused on community based brand building. Lisa, Emily, welcome to the CPT guys. We're excited to have you.

[Emily O'Hara]

Thank you.

[Lisa Clooney]

Thank you so much for having us.

[Peter V S Bond]

So of course we'll include your LinkedIn profile, Joan and eBay brands, websites and LinkedIn pages for our listeners to access in the digital line of they like.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

To learn while they're listening to our melodious voices.

[Peter V S Bond]

Maybe Peter's more I've got the TV face.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

You guys like that demeanor more raspy voice. There we go.

[Peter V S Bond]

Today it's acting strange. I'm going to kick it off first with you, Emily. When I think of ebay, I don't immediately think of CPG necessarily as a context, but you are shifting the narrative from what we see in the industry. So where does ebay fit in the modern ecosystem which is such a diaspora of diluted publishers as well as marketplaces these days?

[Emily O'Hara]

Yes, it does. I wouldn't equate ebay as a CPG brand. We are the OG marketplace returning 30 years old.

[Peter V S Bond]

That is true.

[Emily O'Hara]

That is true this September which we're proud of. But I think where it really plays a role and it differentiates against other e commerce platforms out there is that we're really human to human marketplace. We don't own any of the inventory, we don't steal the data and make product suggestions. We're really looking at empowering our buyers and sellers on the platform.

[Peter V S Bond]

I never thought about we don't take the data, we don't force you to buy stuff until she said it. And never just reconcile with that.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

In my head, buyers and sellers, they're what they are.

[Emily O'Hara]

I love that connectivity is at the.

[Peter V S Bond]

Core of what we're doing. Every other platform gives you four recommendations, eight suggestions.

[Emily O'Hara]

That's right.

[Peter V S Bond]

That's pretty cool.

[Emily O'Hara]

And so we want to be more democratic but we need to tell that story because we're 30 years old. So people love the brand but are they considering us on the day to day? And that's the job that Lisa and I are working on to drive brand consideration, to drive the relevance because I think right now when you see the data of customers and what they're looking for, they're looking for C2C. You know, pre loved, pre owned is a huge trend right now in Value. And I think something that's unique is that we can deliver on all of those things, but in a feel good way. You're buying from a human. You're supporting a small business or a family. So that's the story we're aiming to tell.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

All right, Emily, Lisa, welcome to the CPG guys. We're very happy to have you today. Lisa, I'll throw this one to you.

[Lisa Clooney]

Yeah.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

How do you approach brand storytelling differently for platforms like ebay, where community and culture play such a huge role?

[Lisa Clooney]

Oh, my gosh. It's a great question. And this is the perfect client meeting the perfect time, honestly, in culture, ebay is a platform for so many fans. Whether you're a collector and you love Pokemon or you're collecting, you know, Louis Vuitton handbags or something fancy. You know, ebay has everything from, you know, trading cars and collectibles all the way through automotive parts, et cetera. And the centerpiece of this is this kind of the humanity of it. The buyers and the sellers who are fans of the same thing. So if we aren't leaning into subcultures, fandoms and communities, we're really missing a trick. I think the big thing is how do those fans express what's beautiful about ebay on behalf of the brand? Instead of the top down nature of sort of the past, the way advertising used to speak to audiences. Here we are, and here's what is about us instead. Like, how do the voice of the buyers and sellers and the fans really kind of own the narrative and how do we showcase them? So it's really a brand for the moment, Needing the moment also of marketing.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

I couldn't agree more that just last month I was feeling a little nostalgic. I had a desire to pick up a back copy of a seminal book in my life growing up. It was called the Preppy Handbook. Oh, my gosh, I quit. You. Yes. Lisa Birnbach. I know how to live the life of a preppy.

[Emily O'Hara]

Yes.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

It was only a matter of time before I came back in time and I. Where did I. Where did I find it? I found it on ebay.

[Lisa Clooney]

Yes, of course.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

And it came to me in great shape, just as committed. Great, great. Met my expectations, exceeded my expectations. That, to me, is why I love ebay.

[Emily O'Hara]

Yeah, it's. This is something we talk about all the time, which is like, everyone has an ebay story, and usually the thing that you found or that you sold, it's something you want to talk about. And so we love that.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

I think the other storytelling I love that.

[Emily O'Hara]

And it's the place where you go for finding the thing that you really love versus, like, what you need today, you know? And so it's a different type of consumption. It's a different type of search. People are going with real intent, which is something special.

[Lisa Clooney]

Absolutely. Something very special.

[Peter V S Bond]

I have a unique one for y'.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

All.

[Peter V S Bond]

There's a shirt maker, designer shirt maker called Thomas Dean.

[Emily O'Hara]

Okay.

[Peter V S Bond]

UK based. Yeah, UK based. I have a unusual size. It's not 2 XL, but 2 extra big. It's not 3 XL kind of size. Ebay is the only platform. Historically, I've been able to find them because people buy them at stores and resell them. It's very difficult to find in stores. Over 20 years, I built my entire Thomas Teen shirt collection exclusively on ebay. I bet you all wouldn't have predicted that.

[Lisa Clooney]

No, but that's an amazing toy.

[Peter V S Bond]

It's not a collectible, but for me, it's a collectible.

[Lisa Clooney]

Yeah.

[Peter V S Bond]

One other question I had for you, Lisa, just to dig deeper. You said fans. Describe fans.

[Lisa Clooney]

Fans. So in the ebay language, right, we're talking about people who have passions, people who have passions for something. Our recent tagline that we launched is things people love, not things people need. Things people must have by Friday. Like, things people love. Right. This is like you're really searching for something that you care about, that you are really interested in. So fans, Fans of that. Fans of that category. People. People who are interested are leaning in. It's like very different than the transactional type of marketplaces that we're used to seeing that have been developed for a reason. But those tend to be about like, I need some toilet paper and I need it tomorrow. You know, this is not that. This is about. I'm really interested in comic books.

[Peter V S Bond]

You know, you're so right when you say it's things people love. Because right after this, we go to a lunch with Critio, and I'll be changing from the CPG guy shirt to a Thomas Teen shirt.

[Lisa Clooney]

Oh, there we go.

[Peter V S Bond]

I almost want to open my backpack and show it to you now.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

But we do have two or three fashion changes. It's not weather driven branding is important. It's our trending.

[Lisa Clooney]

We need a selfie afterwards.

[Peter V S Bond]

You just don't know. But so this next one is for both of you, and it's about your partnership. What makes. Maybe we'll ask you to go first, Lisa. What makes the ebay and Joan partnership unique? How do you guys align around bold ideas and yet ensure that performance is delivered because as an agency, it's one of the primary roles you have to fulfill for Emily here. And then I'll come back and ask you, I'll just remind you and ask you again, what does success look for both of you? But everything about KPIs. So why don't we kick it off with you, Lisa first, what makes this partnership unique?

[Lisa Clooney]

Why you both, oh my gosh, this is such, like, this is like actually an emotional question because those are the best answers. I love the client, I love the brand, but I love the team also. So it's just like a very, you know, like we talked about ebay's meeting the moment, but also like the Joan and ebay connection plays to both strengths. And so it's a, it's a, it's a quite a wonderful partnership. But then it's anchored by good people. And that I think is to me.

[Emily O'Hara]

That'S the special piece, I think to build upon that. What's been special is we've been working three and a half years together. Over the past three years we had a big job to build our brand foundations globally. Like we were three separate markets, different brand promises, a design expression system that was fractured. And if we're going to build a brand and reappraisal of a 30 year old brand, we need to get consistent. And so what's unique is that we're not working together off a brief or the next marketing campaign. Together we built what things people love meant and have been building teams together globally so that we can also work consistently but keep the localization and the customer relevance in those markets sharp and spot on. And so I think for all of that reasons, at least in my relationship, I've never started from the bottom to build the foundations with a partner. And I think you're right, we're not an agency client relationship. It's a deep partnership and I think we both believe like we win, like together. That's the only way.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

It's so critical because you know, you're not buying a coin, you're not going to a coin store. And it's a very transactional relationship where you're like, my goal is to get the lowest price, seller's trying to get the highest price, right. You have a long term engagement and that requires understanding each other, figuring out what your objectives are, what the outcomes you're seeking. And that only happens if you build very strong relationships and you understand that this is what my partner needs to make it happen. So if I can help them win, they're going to help me win just.

[Lisa Clooney]

Such a hundred percent. And I think like, you know, listen, at the very beginning of our relationship together, our wins were a little bit the ones right in front of our face and earning the trust of the organization, earning the right and the. I mean, Emily's been spearheading a massive transformation at ebay that comes from putting up the work, doing the hard thing, showing results, gathering momentum and speed. And we're just so honored to have been able to do it with her and the team.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

And brand recognition is so phenomenal. I mean, who doesn't know? I think it's harder to find someone who doesn't know EBA than to find someone who does know ebay.

[Emily O'Hara]

That is exactly right.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Yeah.

[Peter V S Bond]

Now comes the tough part of the same question, which is grounding on performance and KPIs. So maybe Emily, you can start off, what does success look like for you in a campaign? What are you actually measuring? What are those KPIs?

[Emily O'Hara]

So our primary KPI at eBay overall is customer satisfaction. So from kind of CEO down, we want to be ruthlessly focused on buyer satisfaction, seller satisfaction on the platform.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Because I think across the whole path to purchase.

[Emily O'Hara]

Exactly. And so this is way more than what my role is. I mean brand is a big role, but that means product and building experiences that are going to meet these enthusiast audiences, empower them to collect more or to empower their community. But our job really within that is to drive initial consideration set. So how can we make sure people understand why to choose ebay, the role that we can play in their lives, and most importantly, when they're going out and kind of hunting for the next purchase, we're not the last place that they consider to go because you can find almost anything on ebay, but we're the first. And so that's really the job to be done. And that's like a long term, consistent communication strategy. So we're just at the start, I mean, three years in, but we're seeing great progress thus far.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

I have to imagine the satisfaction is at both, on both sides of the table. You need satisfied buyers, but if you don't have satisfied sellers satisfied with the experience, they're not going to show up on your marketplace.

[Emily O'Hara]

It's exactly right. And it's a very complex ecosystem. I think some people kind of could oversee it, but the amount, the complexity and the types of customers that we have on the platform. Buyer, seller, C2C, B2C. Like it's a complex ecosystem, but it is the health of the ecosystem that creates to what your point is the flywheel, like, if we don't have great sellers with great inventory, we're not going to get the buyers, you know, and then we need the buyers, because what do the sellers want? Velocity. They want to sell the things they're putting on the platform. So what's interesting, though, and unique is that we have this army of sellers who are very loyal and they know that if we invest, they win. So looking at the way in which we support them, but also arm them to tell the ebay story on our behalf too, is a big, big opportunity for our brand.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Okay, so Emily, to you. How does brand voice show up on a marketplace like ebay? What does authenticity look like on your marketplace? And maybe you have an example of storytelling around brand identity and how that came together with commerce to really work well on your platform.

[Emily O'Hara]

This is a great question specifically for ebay, because of course we have a tone and voice, brand guidelines. How are we showing up in product? How are we showing up? And, you know, if you call a customer service agent, like, what does ebay do? And here we're like a coach, you know, we need to be confident in helping people navigate the experience. But the true voice of ebay are our buyers and sellers. And so this is what's interesting, and I think something that we've built over this past year, which I love, is something that we call the cast. And it is long term partnerships with real ebay enthusiasts, buyers and sellers, but ones that have following and clout within the communities that they have.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

It amazes me how much more consumers are willing to trust people they've never met 100% than they are what a retailer says or what a brand says. It's like I trust them because they bought the product, they had the experience. They're sharing their authentic experience with me. That means so much more to me. And that's what I hear you talking about.

[Emily O'Hara]

Exactly. And I think it is not surprising, but we wanted to get real focused. And so this is the consumer insight that we saw, which is the channel that drives the highest value of consideration is a trusted voice or a trusted recommendation from someone you know. And so for that reason, building out the cast was something that we believe was really important. But I think to answer directly your question, which is really awesome, is we've made a new way of shopping ebay through the lens of the cast. So each of our cast members has a storefront, and so they're curating items that they find on ebay. So if I am really loving Emma Chamberlain Or Cassie Thorpe, I can go to her storefront and say what's cool on ebay that she is liking right now? And so I can basically search the platform. And so I feel like that's a way where we're really bringing kind of that trusted voice into a shopping experience that is meaningful for trusted curation. Exactly.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

That's what it is. It's phenomenal.

[Peter V S Bond]

So, Lisa, this one is a little tricky in my mind as I thought through it. So obviously ebay sellers drive so much of the listing content, experiences, et cetera, and you're trying to navigate a brand message on the platform. So what advice do you give the ebay team as you navigate creative, knowing that a large part of the experiences are handled by sellers?

[Lisa Clooney]

I mean, I think the most important part for a brand like ebay is to retain the trust, the trust of their buyers and their sellers. And so I think one of the sort of factors that a lot of agencies use is sort of these hyper real or, or fantasy kind of genres or things like that. At ebay, we should not be doing that. This is about true voices. You know, in, in our scheme of all the things that we do, sometimes we're, you know, higher fidelity production and sometimes we're not. But the point is, is that the authentic stories shine. So the advice we always talk to ebay about, and honestly, this is not a hard sell to marketers like Emily, is that keeping that authenticity really clear is really where the brand needs to play.

[Peter V S Bond]

Awesome. But what about, is there like an ideal scenario that you feel, hey, 10% of the content should be owned by the brand, 90% by the sellers, or all that? That's just an imaginative KPI.

[Lisa Clooney]

I hear what you're saying. I think, you know, for us it's. It's a little bit about the brand's role. It has to be clear in the work. Right. So it's not just like a talk to camera. And, and there's no brand role. Right. So we make sure that our system, so our design system is there, our kind of packaging, our point of view is there. I mean, it's. There's a ton of brands in culture that you could point to who participate in really modern marketing, but who don't have the brand foundations embedded in that modern marketing. So what happens is, is that they're very cultural or they feel really timely, but then they're disrupted by the next one that's cultural and timely because they didn't build foundational roots and the brand didn't grow over time. So what we try to do is really make sure that while we're participating in culture, letting others have the voice, that our are always present in there. And those things mean that it's not just like you saw a piece of influencer content. You can't remember who it's for, you loved it or whatever, but it could be for anyone. And then you're off to the next thing. That isn't really the way a brand gets built over time. So the trick is to allow the authenticity to be there, but make sure that the brand foundations feel really strong as you're doing it.

[Peter V S Bond]

And then, Emily, I'll ask you the same thing. Within the four walls of eBay, do you all think about this a X percent of the time? It needs to be the brand versus creative content only seller content.

[Emily O'Hara]

And an honest answer is we're testing our way into it. And so really figuring out what the right mix and balance is going to be. I think we all are deeply understanding that traditional media approach isn't going to work for us and kind of the funnel is dead. And so thinking about the way in the, that we're orchestrating the content to tell our story is something I think we're still leaning into. But I think Lisa, when you touched on like such an important part, which is these brand foundations, they then become brand actions. Because even if it's a different moment that we're showing up, it's consistent in what we're trying to deliver and kind of making room for more of what you love in your life. Bringing that brand promise to the front every time is where you start to get the consistency, the trust and kind of an always on storytelling effect.

[Lisa Clooney]

Absolutely. I mean one thing that I think is interesting is that we're doing obviously a lot of classic brand advertising. Right. For this brand, but the buyers and sellers are featured and their voices within it. So therefore it's not necessarily creator content that we're relying on, but it is buyer, seller central. It's many of their voices supported by embedded.

[Emily O'Hara]

Yeah.

[Lisa Clooney]

So what about ebay? So, and they feel like commercials. Right. But they're, but they're still buyers and sellers.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Again, it's that back to that user generate. They are users, they're buyers, they're sellers.

[Lisa Clooney]

Yeah.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

And they, they generate trust in other buyers and sellers that are understanding how do I work with ebay? How does it fit in? How do I, how do I make my, my best engagements in, in the buy sell relationship.

[Lisa Clooney]

Exactly.

[Peter V S Bond]

Emily dropped something casually in there that.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

I know, I heard it.

[Peter V S Bond]

So we got it we got to dig into that a little bit more in the industry Peter and I come from, which is CPG and the running retail around it, which is primarily grocery and mass and maybe drug to some extent. We're obsessing over full funnel marketing. Like literally. Peter and I have been to 20 sessions, discussions, whatever it might be.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Collapsing the funnel.

[Peter V S Bond]

You said trigger.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Now we're excited. We're gonna double click down, tell us.

[Peter V S Bond]

Why the funnel is dead. And what do you actually mean by the funnel is dead? Maybe we start there.

[Emily O'Hara]

So I think the funnel for me, we still talk about it internally. I think because it's a structure that people think seem to understand.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

It's a construct that we all understand as marketers.

[Lisa Clooney]

Exactly.

[Emily O'Hara]

But the truth is the way in which a customer is shopping is completely distributed. And so the way in which they're finding an item could actually be off the platform itself. And so I think for us, what we're starting to think about is a different flywheel effect, which is like really our job is to create the demand and then we need to capture the demand and then we need to nurture that demand. And so the objectives aren't necessarily different, but the tactics have to be because it's not. Upper funnel is, you know, online video and TV and some social. Yes, that works as a construct. But like for us, as we build what the marketing plan is going to be and thinking beyond just, you know, off platform, all the way through, all the way into the email, what is going to hopefully get you back. We're planning differently, so that's how we're thinking about it.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

It really is about being where your customers are and how they approach what you classically think is the different levels from awareness to consideration to purchase. And it's just making sure that wherever the customer is in that process, you've got the right touch point to connect with them and help them get to satisfaction. Which ultimately would be a good conversion.

[Emily O'Hara]

Exactly. And I think in a world of AI specifically being where the customer is as search is transforming is critical. So understanding those platforms and partners things for us to navigate.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Emily, you obviously have access to a wealth of behavioral data from the transactions that are all household attributable because you have to know where you're shipping the product. But and then I've got to imagine you invest in, in supplemental type of research attitudinal in particular, kind of like the why behind the what, where, when, who, you know, what insights have kind of surprised you about today's ebay shop that they might want to share with us?

[Emily O'Hara]

I think, you know, I already touched on the fact that trusted voices are really, it's going to be the channel in which we can drive the most consideration. But I think the other data that we're really digging into is we've been moving from a category first storytelling or prioritization in terms of our marketing and we're flipping it to make sure that we support a category, but we're telling a broader ebay message. And so the data around which categories ebayers come in and shop like across.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

The platform point of market entry.

[Emily O'Hara]

Exactly.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

That's a classic CPT term we're familiar with.

[Emily O'Hara]

What's the front door, you know, is fashion the front door parts and accessory giant part of our business. But the people coming in are usually hunting within that category. So understanding the mix of the types of customers and the message that is really going to move or the category that's going to really move someone to consider us allows us just to be smarter in whatever our communication strategy is going to be.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Yeah. Knowing the part of market entry and then understanding what are the adjacent categories, that's probably the paths that's going to lead to.

[Emily O'Hara]

Exactly.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

And you have so much data to help you do that.

[Emily O'Hara]

That's right. And if we nurture the enthusiast behavior, people will come back and stay. And so the customer lifetime value grows exponentially.

[Peter V S Bond]

I was reminded to our audience that we're actually having a discussion on the OG of marketplaces, eBay with Lisa Clooney, co founder and CEO Joan and with Emily O', Hare, VP of global head of brand and media. Lisa, this next one is for you. Are there tools or strategies you've used as an agency to show that non traditional retail exposure actually drives long term brand health and equity?

[Lisa Clooney]

Yeah, so we, we have a point of view around building modern legends. And modern legends are brands that are equally as modern as they are legendary. I spoke earlier about making sure you're not a fad, that you're not too modern without the legendary side that got a lot of brands who've played in that space and were disrupted. You also have a lot of brands who thought too long into the future, too slow moving that were disrupted by upstart companies. So this is sort of our point of view as an agency and we have tools, we call it the modern legend growth wheel which a business to manage between whether they're being too modern, too legendary and how do we, how do we kind of find the right balance. This is the classic marketing problem of long and short. I have sales goals tomorrow, But I also need to build a brand, and how do I balance those things? So that's a. That's a tool that we use a lot. And I think, you know, we can. We actually have a new quant study that underpins that, that helps the client understand where they sit on that, from a consumer perspective to. Consumers think that they understand the business, the brand, et cetera. And do they think that they're modern and relevant today? And that helps us to sort of track and measure whether or not we're building healthy brands that are very balanced.

[Peter V S Bond]

So, Lisa, we have a favor to ask.

[Lisa Clooney]

Yes.

[Peter V S Bond]

We want to go to the quant science behind this, as you mentioned, and we want you to run the CPG guys through the model and let us know if they're modern and legendary.

[Lisa Clooney]

Let me see. I know exactly who I'm calling about this.

[Peter V S Bond]

I will, like, buckle up.

[Lisa Clooney]

Christy.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Dan.

[Peter V S Bond]

Now, Emily, I want to ask you those two words, modern, legendary. You are an OG of marketplaces. I don't think anybody can debate that. But I want to get real for this moment right there. The marketplace scenario has gotten extremely diluted. There's all kinds of marketplaces, different messages, creator, content, selling, different type of things. Right. You did mention upfront that you want people to think of. Of you as the first choice as opposed to a choice.

[Emily O'Hara]

Yes.

[Peter V S Bond]

How do you ensure that word modern and legendary at the same time? So you are a first choice.

[Emily O'Hara]

It's a great question. It's the challenge that we have right now. And I think what we focus on to get to the modernity is to be relevant. And we talked about this, too, showing up where these customers are. And I think the way, in terms of the strategy that we're building, I'm really excited to see early results on the impact that it's making, like brand preference, the perceptions of us being a marketplace for them, having the quality inventory they're looking for. So I think we'll keep moving, really, on implementing the strategy and learning and optimizing it as we go. But relevance, breakthrough, authentic. A place a brand gets the people. And I think in a world where AI the precipice that we're on, where things are going to be frictionless and where things are going to be automated, the humanity is something we can really dial up. Like, this is a platform of humans. We're real, we're not bots. And so I think that is a place where we can flex a bit, because it's real from the start and differentiated.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Lisa, how do you See the role of marketplaces like ebay evolving in the future of our space, which is consumer goods, particularly fast moving consumer goods, and brands that are looking to build brand equity.

[Lisa Clooney]

I mean, I'm a fan of ebay as well as working on it. Right. What do I like about ebay? I mean, I love the fact that I feel good shopping on ebay, right. And I think that, you know, there's the marketplace as a category and most map marketplaces do not look like ebay. So ebay has a little bit of a, one of one kind of scenario there where it's a person selling to another person about something that they really like. So as the culture continues to focus on removing friction, one click, shopping, ease and convenience and that kind of a thing. It is my point of view, I think Emily shares this point of view that ebay and brands like ebay who bring a little bit of friction, actually a little bit of personality, a little bit of joy, a little bit of thoughtfulness, centering around things that are exciting to you or things that you really love, they're going to play such a distinctive role in culture as it brings the human side more forward. So I think as you think about the marketplace world in general, I think most marketplaces will continue to be trying to find that ease and convenience and using AI and tools of technology to make that even more quick, even better, you know, discovery, even, you know, all that. Whereas ebay is the home of where humans can find other humans over things that they love. And of course there's a role of like tech excellence that underpins that, which I don't want to like, undersell. But I think from a, a, from a perception standpoint or from a joy standpoint, I see them very different.

[Peter V S Bond]

Awesome. We'll ask you the same.

[Emily O'Hara]

I think you've touched on so much, no, so much of, of the points that I would make because I, I think there's like the existential crisis that we talk about. We're in a world with AI, everyone's so excited about the efficiency. Like it's going to be frictionless experiences. I'm like, oh dear. Like, like collecting is all about friction, you know, actually is all about like the serendipitous moments where you find something you had no idea you actually would love to learn more about or meeting someone and you know, scoring the thing that you kind of coveted. So, you know, in this world we don't know yet because it's evolving day to day, but keeping human at the center of our strategy is really key. Keeping what is joyful about the marketplace, but then removing the friction in the places where it's a no brainer. Let's make it easier for sellers to list things like wouldn't that be magical? But I think that is going to be the line that we navigate and hold as we move through this new era of AI.

[Peter V S Bond]

Our episode 500 was released during the festival itself. At the time of this recording, it was the same day as we're recording you guys. And it was with Amazon and Amazon talked about removing friction. Exactly what you said. Obsession for removing friction and just making it easy. Simplification is the word that they use. But you guys have dropped the truth bomb multiple times for us to let it go now. And that truth bomb word, the buzzword, the important word, the absolute kind of clutch on this festival is AI or artificial intelligence. Some days it feels like the future is already upon us. He has been around 20 years, probably more machine learning than anything else. But it's occupying a part of the brain now in almost any narrative. So I'd love to ask you both, maybe you first. Lisa, as an agency, how's it impacting creativity as well as personalization? And then how are you personally adapting as you advise brands?

[Lisa Clooney]

Yeah, I mean it is impacting everything all the time, all at once essentially. So I think there isn't a person in our company who isn't using it for some reason. One thing that I really love as a use case for it within the agency walls is the ability to prototype creative ideas. So in the past we were, you know, imagine the scenario where this script is being read and this type of visual is being shown, or imagine that you walk through this experience, those things can be difficult for people to kind of get there. So if with AI we can create these prototypes where while we're talking about the potential of a creative idea, the client on the other end can really kind of envision it, then I think we'll have a better chance of selling bigger, bolder, more dynamic creative ideas. And also that we would have put through the rigor of trying to really realize it and understand it. So I think for me that's a really big one. The fact that you can do versions and quantity and personalization, all that stuff is absolutely there. And I think that there's, you know, my, my view is, is that the creative agencies will start to sort of separate where some will build their whole machine on volume and personalization and some will build their whole machine on big ideas and sort of, you know, the originality piece. Because when Everyone has the knowledge. Right. And the same tools. You know, we have the, the, the danger, I think that everyone thinks sort of starts to look the same.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

The sellers, I was going to say that the, the, you know, the, the sellers, they're looking to get their products up on the marketplace as quickly as possible. So the more you can enable them to do that in a very quick pattern, the happier they'll be. The buyers want you to answer their questions and help you understand is, does this product work for me? Will I love it? To your point, you want to create love, will I love it? And that to me is the heart of what AI will help do. It'll help make both of those activities much more efficient in terms of achieving them.

[Peter V S Bond]

The one thing, Peter, that I do want to point out now, you and I were fortunate enough to attend a panel this week with the legendary Martin Sorel himself. While it was a bucket list moment for us, just listen. What are the profound things he said? And he repeated it multiple times. When it comes to the future of agencies and the impact of AI, number one, AI and creative, we're probably looking at a 10 year horizon where almost all of creative, not entirely, but almost all is replaced through AI. Second part is the dollars in the ecosystem he gave. The number of advertising is approximately a trillion dollar economy. But AI will also help make it more efficient through optimization and that will also reduce. But as an agency, while I don't think of either of the words as scary, it means adaptation. Have you all started giving any early thought to this conversation on creative is just going to be. It's not a business model that's sustainable in the long run, the way it.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Is today, the way it currently is historically.

[Peter V S Bond]

And then the second part is if advertising dollars shrink because of efficiency, that's actually a beautiful thing. How would y' all as a agency adapt or respond to that?

[Lisa Clooney]

Yeah, I mean I think that this is the chatter among every creative agency right now for sure. I mean, it is my view that there's going to be a place for AI created ads. Absolutely. I think what then happens is it's just like you're going through your social feed right now. So many companies are posting the exact same type of content over and over and over again. Like you want a pair of jeans, like everything that is the same model type. She's wearing the jeans, she's moving around on the frame. Right. This is the playbook and AI will be no different. There will be a similar playbook that everyone will use and the original, that's why I'm, I'm saying there's going to be this split because I think that that premium thinking where it still takes a human being to go like, what should this brand really be about? Like what really matters? Right. That thinking is going to be so prized and we need to protect it and we need to train it and that cannot be outsourced to AI however, making 20,000 pieces of content that's personalized for every individual or archetype. Sure. You know what I mean? So I think that as we continue to walk towards AI, we have to remember that we cannot atrophy the skills that got us to where we are because these, I mean in marketers and agency leaders, like we are, you know, it's incumbent upon us that when we retire, who is the next coming in and do they have the rigor and the understanding in how to do this? Because somebody needs to be sort of.

[Peter V S Bond]

Directing, you know, then speaking of as we retire, somebody has to come in and fill our shoes as an agency. How are you thinking about what are those conversations you need to have with that next generation to, to fill the shoes?

[Lisa Clooney]

I mean, it is really hard. Actually. I had this exact conversation this morning about the old fashioned apprenticeships. Like, you know, you're going to be a blacksmith, you know, like you're 12, you're following the blacksmith around that world.

[Peter V S Bond]

Was actually very good, very good about the apprenticeships. Internships, call it what you may.

[Lisa Clooney]

Yeah, well the economics don't support it anymore, which is really difficult. Like if you don't have like every hour has to be billable essentially. So there's no billable, there's no non billable downtime available within the agency business.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

So how you price it and generate revenue will fundamentally change is what you're saying.

[Lisa Clooney]

So we need to figure that out because you know, like the teaching thing is like what are you doing with a non billable hour? I'm teaching someone. Right, exactly. No, so the apprenticeship model would actually say they come with you to every single meeting, they're listening, they're learning, they're absorbing. Then you eventually go, okay, we need a point of view, you're on point to write it.

[Emily O'Hara]

It.

[Lisa Clooney]

Let's see what you got, you know, and just sort of training through doing I think.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Well, I've been spending the last year trying to build an agent to replace my podcast co host here. And it's not, I'm still stuck with.

[Peter V S Bond]

I'm still asking him to build by the hour.

[Lisa Clooney]

There you go. No agent's gonna wear that shirt.

[Emily O'Hara]

The branding.

[Lisa Clooney]

The branding, the brand.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

We tell everybody this, but we met with our accountants at the end of last year and he said, do you know your biggest line item? Expensive.

[Peter V S Bond]

It's not travel too much.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

We thought it's like going to travel. He goes, no, no, it's your swag. You guys, you guys spent too much on merch.

[Lisa Clooney]

Merch.

[Emily O'Hara]

In a world of AI, they're not going to take away the merch.

[Lisa Clooney]

Yeah, you will exist.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

All right, let me close this out. I'll give this to you. Emily, continuing on the theme around AI, how are you thinking about responsible AI for eBay and ensuring consumer trust as they're using the platform?

[Emily O'Hara]

This is huge for us and from the start, really digging in across the teams on what does this mean for us, and specifically the tension I've been talking about with making sure that we're still holding humans at the core, but our commitment is transparency. We have eBay, AI. So anytime AI is on our platform, you will see it called out explicitly. It is. It's like a little Starburst, has a gradient. And those experiences you will see. And so I think that is really important for people to understand the moment where it's human to human versus powered by AI. And that's going to be a line that we hold pretty clear along the way as we're going into kind of this new world.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Brilliant.

[Peter V S Bond]

And then from an agency world, what does responsible AI? You'll open the show with the word trust. The trust we need to establish is with consumers at the end of the day, otherwise they'll abandon the platform. And so let's close it out. What is responsible AI?

[Lisa Clooney]

I mean, it's a very good point. You know, for years we've been dealing with false advertising that showcases effect of a product without it really happening, whether it be a skincare, you know, photo shoot that doesn't represent what the product can really do for the skin. Right. So we have been struggling with, as an industry about accuracy and transparency and authenticity and realness inside advertising for years. I think that will be no different. I think the fact that prototyping or making ads through AI is going to become a tool anybody can have. We're going to have a lot of litigious stuff going on there, I think. So buckle up.

[Peter V S Bond]

Awesome. Buckle up. As we buckle up for this conference, which has been intense and a lot of learning. But let me remind our listeners, you can find all of our content by simply going to a Web browser, typing cpguys.com as the URL. If you or Someone you know has something to contribute to this ongoing discussion on the CPG guys, please drop us a line at contactpguys.com again that email is contactpguys.com to our audience, thank you for the clicks, likes, comments, DMs, meeting us at trade shows, recording podcasts, coming to our events, our dinners, our panels, recording episodes on the go. And to all of our sponsors, we're always grateful for you. This show doesn't exist without all of you. You work with us all year. Grateful to have you as our audience and our partners. To both of you, Lisa and Emily, thank you, thank you, thank you for in the middle of a busy, busy, busy conference where there's just way too much going on. For making time for us to appear on the CPG Guys.

[Lisa Clooney]

Ah, thanks for having us.

[Emily O'Hara]

It's a pleasure. It's lovely to meet you, Peter.

[Peter V S Bond]

Always fun doing this with you week over week.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Right back at you.

[Peter V S Bond]

Actually, more than we. More than day over.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

You're going to be sick of me at the end of this week. I don't want to see you for like a month.

[Peter V S Bond]

I don't know if the change schedule.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

We just stay together for the kids. Yeah.

[Lisa Clooney]

Yeah.

[Peter V S Bond]

And with that, that's a wrap of this episode of the CPG Guys. Foreign.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

The content in this podcast episode is provided for general informational purposes only. By listening to our episode, you understand that no information contained in this episode should be construed as advice from CPG Guys LLC where the individual author, hosts or guests, nor is it intended to be a substitute for research on any subject matter. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by CPGuys LLC. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. The views expressed by CPT Guys, LLC do not represent the views of their employers or the entity they represent. CPT Guys LLC expressly disclaims any and all liability or responsibility for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential or other damages arising out of any individual's use of, reference to, or inability to use this podcast or the information we present in this podcast.