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The CPG Guys
Partners in Driving Brand Growth with Kroger Precision Marketing's Barbara Connors & Brian Dowey
00:53:36
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Brian Dowie, Senior Director, Kroger Precision Marketing.
- [00:04]
B
And I'm Barbara Connors, Vice President of Strategy and activation for kpm. And you are listening to the CPG Guys Podcast.
- [00:14]
C
Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. Set at the intersection of commerce and tech. Your hosts, Sree Rajagopelan and Peter Vs Vaughan, explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in a digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG Guys. Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. I'm your affable co host, pvsb, Father of future pro golfer Nadia. Yeah, she's seven, but I'm telling you, she's going on the lpga. I also moonlight as head of industry engagement at Flywheel Omnicom's Commerce Acceleration Division. Today, SRI and I, we're here in the queen city of Cincinnati, aka Porkopolis, and we are in the offices of 8451, where Kroger Precision Marketing is based. My co host, he is the father of pop stars Riaraj and Cat's Eyes Lara Raj. He is of course known by their fans as Papa Raj. He's also the Chief Revenue Officer at Think Blue Consulting. Please join me in welcoming the man known as Sree. Sree. Is it not great to be here in the Natty?
- [01:19]
D
Yeah, I don't think I've been back three years since I left General Mills.
- [01:23]
C
It's been a lot. It's been quite a while. It's good to be here. This morning we were speaking at an engagement over at Northern Kentucky University. We're here at 8451. We're gonna go visit some friends up at a little watering hole at Mount People around here know is Mad Tree afterwards for some. For some happy hour festivities.
- [01:40]
D
And we're getting a brewery tour.
- [01:42]
C
Brewery. They. I know we tagged on LinkedIn that we were going to go there and said, everyone come and meet us. And the VP of marketing literally reached out and said, oh, I'm a big fan of your podcast. I'm XP and G. Can I give you a tour? We'll set up a private area for you. We'd love for you to be here. So, like, wow.
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D
And I have some news.
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C
What?
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D
Cat's Eyes nominated Best New Artist Amy
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C
in the AMA Awards for Cats.
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D
I've got Mid May.
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C
Amazing, Sree, amazing. All right, well, thank you, Sree. It's great to be here with you. I want to remind our audience, please follow us on your favorite podcast platform, be it Apple, Spotify, YouTube, whatever. And if you're on Apple or Spotify in particular. While you're there, please give us a rating. Our favorite number is five, but it's up to you. I'm subtle, aren't I? Yeah, exactly. Doing so helps make our podcast more findable by industry contemporaries who are looking to be both educated and hopefully, hopefully entertained by the content we are producing. All right, let's get to our guests. Today we're joined by two leaders from Kroger Precision Marketing who sit at the very center of one of the most consequential conversations happening in CPG right now. What does that actually mean for a retailer to be a growth partner for a brand, not just a self and a search bar. That's a big deal. Barbara Connors is VP of Strategy and Activation at kpm, where she bridges the full arc from consumer insight to campaign execution. Now, I have known Barbara for, oh, my God, 16 years. She was 4 when I met her. We were actually.
- [03:20]
A
We were. We.
- [03:22]
D
By that count. She can't go to the.
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C
I know she's. I know she's not old enough.
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D
That's the magic.
- [03:27]
B
Able to rent a car.
- [03:28]
C
That. That is you. I. Oh, I didn't even think about that. That's. That's. Now I know why you took a lot of taxis. All right. And we were both. She was coming down from. Coming up from Atlanta, where she was based, and I was moving from the East Coast. It was really great. She's. She's moved from Georgia here, and now she's in South Carolina, where I hear you're actually being recruited to be on Bravo's Southern Charm. Is there any truth to this rumor, Barbara?
- [03:55]
B
No, there is not.
- [03:56]
C
There is no truth. Okay. So we're going to deny that one. All right, that's good to know. Brian is also. Brian Dowie is a senior director at KPM who brings a rare and valuable perspective. He actually comes to retail media through the merchandising side of the house. Now, he was with the organization previously at 8451, went over to merchandising. Well, we'll ask him a little bit about that. And he's actually back to share what he's learned and to help KPM and 8451 Be Better partners for the merchandising side of the business. We think that's a fundamentally different lens on how brands and retailers can really, truly align. So, Barbara, Brian, welcome to the CPG guys. How you doing?
- [04:35]
B
Thanks so much for having us.
- [04:37]
A
Doing well.
- [04:38]
C
It's good to see you both. All right, to our Audience, we want you to check the digital liner notes of this episode because we're going to have links to Barbara and Brian's LinkedIn profile. We'll have a link to 8451's LinkedIn page and KPM's corporate website. So feel free as you're listening to us in your ears or Sheree, did you know that Apple Podcast has added video and we're now going to actually be on Apple in video? So people can't just, they don't just have to listen to us, they can see us.
- [05:08]
D
He wasn't joking about the Southern term thing, was he?
- [05:11]
C
No, See, we're. This is a tape. This is your audition tape. I'm just telling you. Sorry. But do check those out as we go on with the conversation because you'll be able to learn a little bit more about our guests as the conversation ensues. So I'm gonna kick this. It'll go to both of you. I'll start with Barbara. Tell us a little bit about KPM's newly unified portfolio and what it means for brand marketers.
- [05:37]
B
All right, so thanks again for having me really excited for this conversation today. About a year ago, we unified the KPM business, bringing together our insights, media and loyalty marketing businesses all under one division within kpm. And really our, our impetus for doing that was an acknowledgement that customer behavior, technology changes are moving so quickly that in order to not only compete today, but to thrive and to build brands for the future, we need to break down silos across all of these different parts of the businesses and functions at brands and retailers to move from insight all the way through to activation. And that requires changing technology, stack operations and culture. And we're really focused on really breaking down the sales across all three of these aspects because we know that as we bring all of these things together, that is what is truly going to make brands thrive and win together with Kroger.
- [06:38]
C
So, Brian, with that in mind, as I kind of detailed your chronology here at the organization, I'd like to understand your path through Kroger merchandising and why you think that background matters as you come back to KPM 8451 to really enable what Barbara just shared with us.
- [06:58]
A
Yeah, I, you know, I was at 8,451 for almost 12 years and the kind of, the latter six of that, I worked directly with Kroger merchandising and so spent a lot of time with them working directly, building strategy, understanding data and insights. And then a little over Two years ago, went over to join merchandising and quite frankly, it was eye opening. Despite the amount of time I had spent working and partnering, there were so many things I just didn't have visibility to in terms of the realities of merchandising, some of the constraints to timelines and responsibilities and accountabilities. And so what I was able to do during that time was to bring a little bit of that knowledge back over here to 8451 to help share about how do we make capabilities more relevant. And I think that very much holds true now as I joined KPM is to really just better connect the realities of, you know, what needs to be drew from a timeline standpoint. How do we show up together differently, how do we think about the overall business success and criteria and just better connect. So we're speaking a common language and so confident there's ample opportunity and I think there's just really no substitute for the real experience. And so I hope I can bring a lot of that over here and just bring us together better.
- [08:19]
C
Brilliant.
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D
Ryan and Barbara, first of all, welcome to the CPG guys. This podcast should not go on any further without taking a second to thank a dear friend of ours who we worked for the last few years, Brian Spencer.
- [08:31]
C
Brian Spencer, at very short notice, raise the roof, people. Audiences clapping and raising their hands up.
- [08:37]
D
We're actually putting these conversations together, but partnering with us. We've had so many Kroger episodes over the years, so those listening in, all you got to do is literally on Google type CPG guys, space Kroger and you should be able to find all of them. But thanks to Brian, the next one is for both of you. And it's all about what I would say, alignment. And the alignment is between retail and a CPG brand. And that's kind of like the thesis of today's conversation anyway. And we've got the perfect person in you doing a trip into merchandising and coming back at this stage. So talk to us. Maybe you can go first, Brian, and then we'll ask you, Barbara, do the same. What does genuine alignment between a CPG brand and a retailer actually look like in practice versus a slide in a JBP deck? And I'm guilty of having created many of those slides. Brian, you first.
- [09:30]
A
Yes, and I've seen many of those slides, not necessarily from you, sri, but from others as well. I think what really drives it is starting with understanding the merchandiser strategy. And I think if, if the CPG can really understand what is the strategy, what are you trying to achieve and how are you trying to get there? That's kind of the, the building base for everything else. And so even if you break it down to just some of the, the core fundamentals of what merchandising is charged with doing, it is ultimately, you know, we need to drive top line sales and drive profitable growth and we need to ideally generate it through more trips and increase baskets overall. And so you start to think about then as I connect it back in terms of KPM and what ultimately we're trying to do, the benefit is through execution of some of those components, you're able to directly influence some of my key KPIs. But I think overall it's a starting point of what are you trying to achieve, what does success look like and ultimately how do we align what we're trying to do to enable you to get there.
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D
So maybe, Barbara, what I'll ask you to follow up to what Brian said. Trips and baskets, best way, right? No brainer. It focuses on the consumer, the shopper at the end of the day, which is how any retailer and CPG brand should be discussing. Unfortunately, JBPs are not necessarily written that way. You come from, you've been with KPM for quite a bit. How do you take the trips and baskets word? What does that mean to you then? How do you have those conversations with CPG brands?
- [11:04]
B
Yeah, I think it still really begins with an understanding of customer trends and behavior, category health and gaps, and then from a brand perspective, getting really clear on what the role your brand can play in addressing those two things, either capitalizing on growth opportunities or meeting unmet customer needs, or turning around trends within a category. If you can anchor on that, that goes a long way in terms of just starting to bridge the conversation to speak the language and the metrics that a merchandiser is going to care about. Once you can ground yourself in that and say, hey, this is the role that my brand is going to play and you have alignment between the CPG and the merchandiser, then you can start to have really strategic conversations around what you're going to do to drive both households and trips and increase those baskets. And with that then you're tying tactical conversations back to the strategic growth opportunities.
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C
I love that, Barbara, because I remember from my days back here we used to talk about even among the most loyal consumers, there was so much room for growth. A large percentage of what would be considered their CPG basket was still being purchased outside. So there is, even amongst your most valuable consumers, there's so much room for growth and centering around the shopper is going to help you figure out how to get that part of the basket that you're not currently owning.
- [12:41]
B
I 100% agree. I also think that fundamentally today you can't take loyalty for granted either among your loyal customers because competition is fierce, constraints continue to be tight for a lot of customers and they're making tough choices either within categories, choosing between brands or making trade offs across categories and what fits within their basket. And that can be from a financial standpoint or from a health standpoint, what do I want to put in my basket to put in my body? So if you're a brand, you really need to make sure that you are super clear on what you are going to do to both drive trial all the way through to earning and maintaining loyalty with the customers who have been driving your brand growth for the past decades or years. And I think that's also where the power of bringing our portfolio together from Insights, Media and loyalty really enables brands to do that. Because you can say, well, what do I have within my arsenal to understand what's important to my customers and my loyal customers? What do I have within my arsenal to be able to drive new demand and trial before customers even get to our website or walk into our physical stores? And then once they're there, how do I connect that through to really drive that consistent through line of storytelling and brand messaging all the way through to conversion, be that on site or in store. So it today I think it's a tough environment for brands because you can't rest on your laurels and the old playbooks that you maybe used to be able to rely on to drive sustainable growth just, just aren't there anymore.
- [14:19]
C
Brilliant. Brian. In, in your response to Sheree's last question, you clearly articulated Kroger's number one KPI being focused around total sales driven by trips and basket size and that every conversation between Kroger and its brand partners should really map back to those levers. So my question to you is how does that reframe the way you think brands should walk in to any retailer, but specifically Kroger for a conversation? And where are they still missing the mark? Where is there room for improvement?
- [14:59]
A
Yeah, I'll start with the second part first. I think where most brands are missing the mark is when they're bringing ideas, whether it be innovation, strategy, programming, et cetera. They're framing it in a way of how they want to go to market nationally. They look at it from their own internal KPIs of this is what we want to do and these are the items or the strategy you should implement and take and there should be a reframe of that overall is before that conversation is understand how is what you are offering fit into Kroger's strategy or any other retailer strategy? What can we do that is unique and different to make it an ownable and winnable proposition within this, within this retailer? And I think especially when you look at just the data and the media assets that we have, there is no reason why a brand cannot be prepared in that way to say we understand your customer, we understand the trends, here's what we're trying to do and this is how we think we can do something different with you. And quite frankly here are some areas that we don't think are as winnable for you and be able to bring the story that way and you just don't see see it in most, in most presentations and decks that are shared.
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C
If only they had access to a data set that could help them build that kind of a story.
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A
Be helpful.
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D
But Brian, obviously brands are built for scale and they have distribution all over the country. I'm talking about some of the largest brands you work with. But when it comes to innovation which still hasn't entered the market, shouldn't that be the only, only way to bring it to you? Data sets? What's the role within Kroger strategy within the aisles? What does the Kroger customer want across the banners and only then does that
- [16:49]
A
become a national play percent I think it is. It is understanding and framing in that way but also then incorporating what does success look like. And that is again I think another key component that is often overlooked overall is this is what we think we can achieve together and, and here's our confidence in why we can get there and the building blocks that need to be true to do that.
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D
But.
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A
But completely agree with you SRI that should be at the forefront of everything they're bringing, especially anything innovation to be able to prove it out there and then be able to launch nationally.
- [17:19]
D
I'm gonna give you guys a little secret since my NDAs and non competes are all long expired and I'm from California anyway. They don't apply. Brands only track innovation on a scorecard for 12 months after the launch. After that it's history. That's why only 5% of innovation succeeds. But if they take your approach, don't just think shopper also think shopper and retailer within the retailer. This will be a different that 5% will jump pretty fast. So Barbara, next one's for you since we've gone down the data path. So retail data is obviously now embedded into what I would call consumer insights, E commerce shopper marketing, everyday core marketing, the entire funnel, brand teams. Inside most CPG orgs, there's many stakeholders in the process that I just rattled off right there and they're all pulling on the same data sets, but each is thinking differently based on the silo they come from in a cpg. So how do you help a brand especially since you represent the marketing angle for them, storytelling angle. Build one singular strategic framework in support of what Brian just said that still gives each team a little bit of flexibility to deliver what they need to without creating chaos across the board. Sorry, tough one.
- [18:37]
B
That's a great question. I think that's actually where the power of having a trusted, robust, longitudinal, granular data set like we have comes to play. Because I think really what you are hitting on is that it is necessary for different stakeholders to look at our data and insights from different angles. Sometimes it is important to zoom out and look longitudinally to understand key macro trends. Sometimes it is really important to go laser focused and deep into what is happening in this hour. Both are true and we need to enable the right access and solutions to be able to meet the needs across the spectrum. Think you can sort of like simply break it down and say you need to know what data insight someone needs to have access to when they need it and where they need it. And so what we've built is a, a connected ecosystem that enables all the different players across that ecosystem to do what is required for their job and brings in their expertise to all orchestrate a brand growth strategy. I will if you don't mind, give you some, some very tangible examples of how this comes.
- [19:54]
D
We would love that.
- [19:55]
B
Okay, so if you are cpg, you can have a category management team or brand analyst go through and say hey, I'm looking at the category and I want to understand if there are some unmet needs that new innovation that I'm bringing to market could serve. Once you really assess within the Kroger category and landscape and customer behavior and trends, here's a need that my new item can play. Then you can have a really productive conversation with merchandising around the right launch plan for that item. Let's fast forward and say part of that launch plan includes an end cap and you get your product on display. And perhaps you also are doing that on a display where we have digital screens in store so you're actually able to launch that brand with additional merchandising and storytelling that brings your brand message and value prop to life. For shoppers, the person that is looking within stratum to build out the story and understand whether a new item should come to Kroger stores is different than the person who's building out a content strategy within your media campaign. Now, when you're running that promotion, it is really important that you have enough supply and that you are staying in stock. So we have intraday data that can be updated through APIs to teams on an hourly basis that says how is your in stock performance? So when you are actually executing that, your strategy can flow through and say am I actually performing and meeting the needs that I need to from an operational standpoint, fast forward and say I also don't want in gate shoppers when they only come in the store, but I want to drive demand for my new item. We use that same data to understand and build out an audience strategy and segment and be able to translate that very literally into an audience that you'd run a campaign against. That is the same data asset that fuels that. But instead of now being through an API, it connects into the Kroger ad platform to buy your media. And then if you happen to be doing that, you want to be able to optimize your performance mid campaign. So that's why we've set up, we just announced recently with DV360 that we have conversion APIs that are actually providing conversion at a SKU level immediately for online sales and in batched daily reporting for in store offline sales. That conversion data so you can optimize your campaigns in real time. All of this means that we have to have data at different access points. Some people need it in real time, some stakeholders need it from an aggregated view. But the key is that we're thinking about what is the use case that needs to happen for a specific point in time for a specific user. And it is our job to take all that complexity and say what is the right platform and experience for all those disparate users so that you don't feel chaos, you just feel as you're a brand that the people that need to do their job to ensure that I'm bringing a brand launch strategy to market in a way with operational excellence can do it effectively.
- [23:13]
C
At the CPG guys, we're excited to partner with today's sponsor, Confido. Think about how many different workflows your team is managing right now. Your sales team is planning promotions In a spreadsheet, your finance team is manually managing deductions from a dozen different retailer portals. Your ops team is building forecasts in a totally separate tool. When something changes, a promotion shifts, a big deduction comes in. Nobody finds out until it's already a problem. Most CPG brands are running these processes in silos. And the cost isn't just time, it's the decisions that don't get made or get made on bad information. Confido is the end to end platform for CPG operations built specifically for brands to run. All of it in one place. Trade promotion, management, deductions disputes, sales forecasting, demand planning, and retail analytics. When your trade events are connected to your forecasts and your deductions are automatically matched to your promotions, your whole team is finally working from the same picture. Over 200 CPG brands, including Olipop, Bear Bells and Simple Mills already use it. Go to confidotech.com cpguys to learn more. That's confidotech.com CPG guys,
- [24:41]
D
She was serious about a real tangible example. Now that you've given the example, the big follow up I have is do you see CPG brands hungry to want to actually capture that entire data ecosystem, especially the out of stock supply chain side?
- [25:00]
B
Yes.
- [25:01]
D
Good to be here.
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B
There is, I think increasing demand for real time out of stock data because you know that you have a great strategy and plan and if you do not have the product on shelf, customers can't buy it. And so to me that's like a very classic example of how all these, these pieces really fit together. Because at the end of the day, your performance is going to be dependent on all aspects within that that supply chain.
- [25:31]
D
Also, campaign ROI measurement is going to
- [25:33]
C
report pretty badly, but it's absolutely true. Why would you spend money on advertising if you don't have a product to sell? Right. That's just a waste. And it disappoints consumers that were expecting to get it and they find out at some point in the process, oh yeah, you can't avail yourself of that deal because we don't have any inventory. So absolutely. Okay, so I think, Barbara, what you just shared with us really personifies our argument that retailers are clearly evolving from being points of distribution or what I'd call shelf space vendors, to being genuine brand growth partners, as you articulated. But that requires some serious mind shifts on both sides of the table, right? What needs to take place from both the Kroger side retailers and from the brand side to make this a reality?
- [26:32]
A
Ryan, glad you asked Barbara mentioned earlier, this is a, this is a big passion topic of mine. But Barbara mentioned earlier role of the brand. And that is some language that we have on the merchandising side very much adopted and are promoting with our CPG partners. And what we mean by that is being really intentional with what is the role of your brand on our physical and digital shelves as well as the items within your brand.
- [27:02]
C
And it might say the role that the brand may play on the digital shelf could be, not necessarily is, but it could play a different role than what's on the physical shelf.
- [27:12]
A
Yes, a hundred percent.
- [27:14]
C
Okay, it could.
- [27:15]
A
And I think it starts with just being able to articulate what it is and why. And the analogy I always use is, and we find ourselves in the spot is think about any sports team, right? If you have a complementary player where everybody knows their role, those are often some of the most successful sports teams. They'll win championships. It's not that different from a brand portfolio. But what we often find is you've got a lot of items that are playing similar roles that are ultimately competing in trading out sales. And then we're missing opportunity to optimize brand. And then in turn you're missing opportunity to maximize category. And on the retailer side, I think, you know, we look to the brands to say we really want to be intentional with what is the role of your pack type within your brand portfolio?
- [28:04]
C
Price pack architecture.
- [28:05]
A
Ooh, there you go. And then it's all right, great. I need to link that across the five other brands that are on the shelf because it's not only optimizing that, but how does that brand complement what else I have on the shelf to meet customer needs, but also deliver that total growth that we're trying to seek. And so I think that's really how we're trying to reframe the conversation. And quite frankly, where we've started is just with supreme simplicity around, can you, in a five question format, answer these basic questions that you could stand in front of a shelf and just talk about it? And what we found is in many cases the answer is no. And it's opened us up to a whole host of different conversations around how many sizes do we need? What are the roles? How do we think about the different strategies behind each, whether it be media driven pricing, promotion, et cetera? And so I think it is a different way to talk about it. It's not anything that is, I'd say, advanced. It's just trying to bring in common language to say if we can articulate clearly it's probably not breaking through for the customer.
- [29:12]
C
Barbara, how does data underpin the ability to actually do that from your perspective? Like to be able to articulate just coming up and saying I have a hunch that this is what my brand's job is. You kind of have to be informed in order to, to be able to have that kind of an honest conversation on both sides of the table.
- [29:33]
B
Yes, you do. The other additional piece to that is the democratization of data between brand and retailer. So we are looking at the same data. It forces a unified conversation and understanding around what the role of a brand would be.
- [29:55]
C
Because a single version of the truth.
- [29:57]
B
Yes, because you can fact check. We know our, we analyze Kroger retail data on a daily basis. The power is you have a army of brands that can be looking at a greater level of depth and breadth and bringing their expertise and sophistication into to really bring holistic strategies back to us. But we also are looking at the same data set. So in some ways you're like, well, the data won't lie. And sometimes both sides coming to the table with our sort of like understanding of category and brand role can help bring conversation to the middle and a mutual understanding of how those two things can play together.
- [30:44]
D
You somewhat answered the next one, but I want to dig in a little deeper. So I think what we hear is the CPG guys is over a thousand CPG brands are now using Stratum subscribing to Stratum, your retail analytics software. What are the more sophisticated brands doing with Stratum that the average Joe isn't? And what you you started talking about near real time insights, especially for supply chain. Are there other examples or are there other brands who are truly leveraging real time insights in other ways outside supply chain?
- [31:19]
B
Yeah, so you had a couple questions in there, so I'll try to hit on all of them. One is that the, the most sophisticated brands are not just using like reporting and the platform differently, but it is a mindset difference. So they're approaching insights within the Kroger ecosystem. Not just to say what happened yesterday or how did my promotion perform or how did my campaign perform, but what should I do next? And using it to bring forward looking plans to Kroger and to orchestrate a unified and connected strategy within their own ecosystem and through their own organization. That really is the unlock because then you're using the data to bridge conversations across the CPG where you also have multiple functions, different strategies and create a forward looking, mutually beneficial strategy. Back to the retailer. So that's approach. Brian hit on this a couple minutes ago. But there is a wealth of untapped knowledge and truly understanding how brands should grow in an omnichannel world and within Stratum, CPGs have the ability to really understand and diagnose how is my brand performing from an E commerce perspective? How is it performing in store? Is the role of different brands different? Are the customers that are loyal to my brand that are engaging with it different? Are there different trips, usage occasions that that my product is fulfilling across this now more diverse ecosystem and using that to really bring back very detailed and prescriptive plans back to Kroger around how to win in both spaces because they will both remain critical to driving growth for the brand and for Kroger. The third question you asked was around sort of real time data and insights. Very tactically There are many CPGs that use it from an operational standpoint because you just that is how you run the business and you will if there's table stakes and foundational work that needs to be done. There is also so much changing from a consumer behavior standpoint that having a maniacal focus on understanding emerging trends, outliers, potentially like negative pivots that are unintended, is critical to ensure that brands are able to pivot in real time and make adjustments with the retailer. So some of that is just ensuring that like you have someone focused on understanding what is going on this week. How is that different from last week so that you can make changes really quickly and with confidence.
- [34:15]
D
When you say real time, do you include the presence of social data in that or is it purely actual pos, whether online or offline?
- [34:25]
B
So when we are looking at data we have POS online offline, but then we also provide brands access to digital engagement within our own site so they can understand how customers are even engaging across Kroger properties beyond just the transaction data.
- [34:40]
D
One thing I do want to follow up, probably not deeply today, is a lot of trends are forming on TikTok. It's just the reality of how consumerism works today in the United States. Are you thinking long term about what to do on the social side, especially from a trend perspective?
- [34:56]
B
Yeah. So we have partnerships with and integrations with several different social media platforms. And there are a couple ways that we approach this. One is actually sharing data between us to understand what are emerging trends that we want to collectively go after based on data that they have and own and are able to share back with us via APIs. And then there's a lot that CPGs have in house that they are bringing into their social content strategies that we want to make sure are truly incorporated in their Kroger activation plan so that we're meeting shoppers where they're engaging content and bringing brand discovery into that ecosystem and using that to really shorten the distance between inspiration and conversion back to Kroger.
- [35:42]
C
This is for both of you. I'll start with Brian. For big tent pole moments, we're thinking seasonal events like Turkey 5 cultural moments, big retailer milestones. What are the two or three decisions that have to be really locked in early for a joint brand retailer strategy to really deliver on what your expectations are? And, and where do these conversations tend to break down if they do?
- [36:09]
A
A couple of things come to mind. I think first and foremost as you look across the overall calendar of the year, it is identification of where do you have mutual big bets. So there are going to be some moments that matter more to us than they will for certain CPGs and vice versa. I think step one is finding that intersection with ultimately where, where do those become mass important to both sides and then those are the areas where I think you can really create some differentiated wins overall. And I think because that unlocks a couple of things. One, you know you're going to have the retailer focus. Two, ideally then there will be national brand focus as well that you can use to further enhance and amplify and those additional assets that they can bring to bear. So I think starting with that and recognizing it can't be everything but let's figure out what are the most critical components for each side and really rallying around that cause where things tend to break down is there is oftentimes a hesitancy to really get tight and articulate what is success criteria on both sides at the right points in time. And I think oftentimes it's the unspoken that then can create challenges later on in the planning process where you're trying to either amplify with additional display, amplify with additional media, but really not taking the time to really chart out to say if this is what we're trying to achieve together, what are the critical components to get there? This is what I'm accountable for. This is what you'd be accountable for. Are we both collectively in and really aligning on that component upfront? And I think doing a more effective job of that, I think leads to an overall experience end to end. That's going to translate into greater, greater hit rates for both sides to bring that to fruition. And today it just doesn't happen consistently.
- [38:04]
C
Very helpful, Barbara, anything to add to that from your perspective?
- [38:09]
B
Yes, I'll build on that with a positive viewpoint, which is that within these big tentpole moments there is such a unique opportunity to draft off of momentum that the retailer and the brand both bring to the table when it is a time period that are critical to both. Because in that so often these big tent pole moments are seasonal or tied around new traditions and there's an opportunity to interject brands in a new way to introduce them to solve a new problem for customers or almost seed introduction into traditions that could be something that is now repeated year after year. So it isn't just about driving that seasonal moment, but there is an opportunity for brands to insert themselves into a time period that is really important and memorable for customers year after year and get in there in a way that is, that is different and unexpected. And when there's a key time period where the retailer is also bringing so much marketing to the table, you have such an opportunity to capture on that increased customer attention and demand that sort of swirls around that point in time.
- [39:23]
C
Are you here to tell me that Kroger is going to help me deal with that crazy uncle I'm sitting across the Thanksgiving Day table from? Or is that outside of the scope of what we're talking about?
- [39:32]
B
It might be for 2026.
- [39:34]
C
Ooh Sri, I'm eager within anticipation that
- [39:38]
D
the uncle who told you the Giants are going to win the super bowl next year.
- [39:41]
C
Same one, same one.
- [39:42]
D
Gotcha. Gotcha. So inspired by a conversation we just had with Bob Nolan, who's SVP of Demand Signs for conagra brands, he talked about not getting obsessed with data from the past and analyzing the past to death, but using the same data science to predict the future. So love to know how can brands use retailer insights to anticipate where preferences are going as opposed to just report on where they've been. So maybe Barbara, you first.
- [40:11]
B
Okay, so again I'll talk about this from two different lenses. One is pretty simple, but from a brand perspective, sometimes expand your purview behind beyond understanding exactly how customers are engaging with your products and brands. There is such a wealth of understanding that you can glean around customer preferences and lifestyles and habits from grocery data because of the frequency that customers shop in and the way that it fits into just our day to day routines. So just expanding sort of your aperture of what you're looking at the data for beyond just brand health to understand customer trends is just one piece of advice. The Other just really to hit on the predictive piece of it is this is where we're building capabilities in house to bring to brands to make it easier for them to do this. Because we know that there is immense value that can come from looking at a trusted robust data asset and using it to predict what might be something to focus on going forward. That also takes a lot of time and energy from brands to build out those capabilities. So as we're bringing in AI LED capabilities, one example of that is with Agent Monday that we built into Stratum that on Monday mornings get the name tells users personalized insights and recommendations to start their week so that they don't have to do a bunch of analytics on top of the data to understand where they might focus. We serve it up to them and make it easy for them to start their week with a plan and confidence.
- [41:48]
D
Does that include the CPG side as well? Monday mornings they get their output.
- [41:54]
B
Yes. So it is personalized to the user based on the brands that matter to them.
- [42:01]
C
All right. Retail media is just one lever right in a much bigger ecosystem and Kroger has been unifying retail media, stratum, insights, loyalty marketing under one big KPM umbrella of recent in practical terms, what does true integration across data, insights, activation and measurement really look like and where do you see brand teams struggling to move in that direction? Brian, as you're most often in touch with them on the merchandising side, I'd love your opinion first if you could.
- [42:48]
A
Yeah, I think there's the, there's the technical component of bringing solutions and data and insights and activation together in a common tech stack. There's also the component of how do you bring the right teams together to be able to do that. But then I think the critical component is connecting that literally and physically with the right players across the different organizations. And so I think still too often today, while maybe you'll have the, the common data and loyalty layer, there are conversations happening with one group but maybe not with another group. And so you're still operating very much in silos versus actually bringing merchant brand data activation together and measurement to have a holistic conversation and really an identification of, of what are we trying to do and why and how do we get there. And I think that is the aspect that is missing. It'll be a media specific conversation that maybe a merchant joins. It'll be a promo specific conversation that perhaps KPM may join. But what we've not effectively done or really crack through is that is all one plan that we want to impact the end customer in a positive way. How are those things smartly integrated in a way that drives a greater overall results? And by talking them in silos, we start to work towards that. But when we start to talk about them in combination and really get intentional with what role we need each lever to play, that's where I think we have the opportunity to really magnify some of the outcomes associated with that.
- [44:21]
D
Before I ask you both the final question, Barbara would love your take now that Brian is given permission for KPM also to be part of it.
- [44:30]
C
Yeah, Barbara, is this a Project Pistachio or can we actually get this done?
- [44:35]
B
We are cracking the nuts, Louie.
- [44:37]
D
You all can't say Project Pistachio and just walk away. What does that mean?
- [44:41]
C
It's an old reference that Barbara and I are privy to from work we did a long time ago.
- [44:48]
B
Early days of data led personalization. So codename to crack the nut. Okay, so I'm going to build on what Brian said because while this may seem tactical, there is such power in just connecting teams and people because you will bring inherent perspective and expertise you have on how you can connect the dots. And there's such low hanging fruit in connecting merchandising and media strategies just by connecting dots on levers and tools that we already have at our disposal. We're just not applying in a connected way.
- [45:26]
D
All right, final one for this episode today and we want to send our listeners home with something they can actually act on. So let's look a quarter out. If a CPG marketer working with you folks can take one critical action this quarter to meaningfully modernize their partnership with you, what would you recommend and then how should they measure that? What you suggested they put in play and it's actually working for them. Maybe you first Brian and then Barbara over to you.
- [45:56]
A
Yeah, this is, I mean similar to what we were just talking about. But I think it is such an opportunity. It's something that everybody can do today. And I would say what I think they can do is to bring forward one integrated total plan that incorporates what you're doing digitally, what you're looking to do in store and how you're going to be able to support it from a media standpoint. And I think looking at it holistically with an eye towards collectively when we do these things, These are the KPIs that we think we can deliver on the back end. And I think really having that conversation around, these are the things that we want to do and what we think we can deliver here's. How we're defining success. Are you aligned? And I think having that conversation with the merchandiser, the digital merchandiser and the respective KPM person, I think along with the CPG and the brand is the right audience in that room. The last thing I would say about that is it doesn't need to be a slide heavy conversation. It tends to be where we always go. I need to show you the 25 slides on what we've been working on to tell you why this is the right decision which leaves little time for conversation. I think what you can do is effectively come with what is it we're trying to achieve. Let's align to that now. Let's have a conversation towards the outcome we're all trying to work towards and I think taking that step forward, forward is something that everybody can do immediately and I think if we can do that effectively, we'll all be really happy with the results that can deliver.
- [47:28]
D
Come on Brian. We now finally have Nano Banana to help us with slide decks from Google Gemini. So no more pretty decks for you.
- [47:36]
A
30 pages I would be good with no decks. So let's, let's have a conversation.
- [47:42]
D
Spoken like a true merchant. Barbara.
- [47:46]
B
The build I would have on what Brian said is being really transparent on what the brand is trying to achieve and tying that back to Kroger retail data so that it's clear that it is a strategy that is anchored in understanding of the Kroger shopper and landscape and how the strategy can win uniquely here because that will drive greater desire to move quickly on a plan. And if the the end state us like how do you measure success? The first step is just mobilizing the plan around the strategy and you will have a lot more buy in and an internal desire from people on both sides of of that table to move forward with a plan. If there's a joint understanding like okay, this is going to help me win personally in my language one Bill I
- [48:41]
A
love what you said there Barbara. I think being transparent I think also vulnerable because the reality is we don't all know all of the answers and I think it is hard to enter one of those discussions and admit there are some components that you don't know and I think where you really start to look towards what are partnerships, it can be built around vulnerability that hey, none of us know the answer but we feel like we're getting there together. And I think that's when you have that unified strategy that both sides are excited about about and that's when you're working towards that Common outcome and vulnerability can be very powerful in that setting.
- [49:15]
C
Well, well said, Brian. Let me remind our audience they should go to the digital show notes this episode so that they can learn a little bit more about the, the people that have been sharing their thoughts today, Brian and Barbara and of course kpm, so that you can, you can have further conversations. But Sree, this, this was a, a really great episode. What was your big takeaway?
- [49:39]
D
An episode filled with rich insights on the partnership model and how it should be between retail and CPG brands. I think how Brian started and closed out the episode, I think is very profound, which is when you bring a plan, when you focus on a plan, think digital in store. Use the data sets that are readily available to you and you have access. Bring one unified plan that includes marketing as a piece of it, targeting as a piece of it, and then measure the right way across the board. Because at the end of the day, I think we kicked off the episode by saying what matters most, strips and baskets. That's the way you can do it. But I am going to put a little plus symbol at the end and say real time insights are equally important. They're available, leverage them, report out against them, and predict the future. Most importantly, I'm going to double down
- [50:28]
C
your comment on data for my big takeaway. And Barbara talked about Kroger has democratized the data, made it available to all parties involved in this conversation to the point where you have a single version of the truth and conversations should center around that. You can squabble over some interpretations, but the data's there, it's plentiful, and it should help make very informed decisions. So that is, that is the center of the truth. That's going to help Kroger and its brands move from just joint business plan to truly joint value creation with the consumer at the center of, of that process. Barbara, Brian, thank you for joining us today here in this fabulous location. We're really excited to be able to speak with you today.
- [51:18]
B
Thanks so much for having us.
- [51:20]
A
Yeah, I appreciate it. And Sree, that may be the first time I've heard Brian and profound in the same sentence. So I.
- [51:25]
D
How about that, man?
- [51:25]
A
Appreciate it.
- [51:26]
C
All righty. All right, so Sree, thanks again as always for joining me on this journey to our audience. This community really doesn't exist without all of you. You engage with us wherever we are all year long. We're grateful to have you as both our audience and our partners. We want to particularly thank the over 44,000 people who are following us on LinkedIn crazy. Sree. I can't believe that. And if you're not just following us on LinkedIn, you should also try and see us on Facebook. We're on Instagram, we're on TikTok, and now we're on YouTube. God, we're everywhere. Sri. Are we still on MySpace? I don't know if we're.
- [52:03]
D
No, Instagram.
- [52:04]
C
Yeah, we said Instagram. Yeah, we got that. That's all we have for you today, folks.
- [52:08]
D
Just one thing before you say that last sentence. Yes, Brian, you don't give the CPG Guys a sentence and words to play with because your new nickname is profound. Brian, I've been.
- [52:19]
C
Thanks, everybody. Bye. The content in this podcast episode is provided for general informational purposes only. By listening to our episode, you understand that no information contained in this episode should be construed as advice from CPG Guys, LLC where the individual author, hosts, or guests, nor is it intended to be a substitute for research on any subject matter. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by CPGuys LLC. The views expressed by guests are their own, and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. The views expressed by CPT Guys, LLC do not represent the the views of their employers or the entity they represent. CPT Guys, LLC expressly disclaims any and all liability or responsibility for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential, or other damages arising out of any individual's use of, reference to, or inability to use this podcast or the information we present in this podcast.