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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm John Fitzgerald, Senior Director of growth at madtree Brewing and you're listening to the CPG Guys Podcast.
- [00:09]
B
Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. Set at the intersection of commerce and tech, your hosts Sree Rajagopalan and Peter V S Vaughn explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in a digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG Guys.
- [00:28]
C
Hello and welcome to this special episode of the CPG Guys Podcast. I'm of course Sree, your West coast co host and also CRO and co founder of Think Blue Consulting, your trusted partner in your omnichannel journey where you can get in touch with me at shreenkblueconsulting.co. please do listen to my younger daughter Lara Raja, the Ben Katsai, who is now nominated for three AMA Awards and performing live in Las Vegas in a couple weeks, and elder sister Ria Raja, former American Adult finalist. I'm joined today by my east coast co host and co founder, PWS Bono, Moonlights Head of industry and client engagement, Flywheel, the commerce acceleration division of Omnicom. Peter, we're in the Queen City and we got something special going on right here. Mad Tree one one of your Peter from past life. Tell us more.
- [01:12]
B
All sorts of stuff. Yeah, when I was living in Hyde park east in Cincinnati from 2010 to 2014 was right about the time that Madtree came into being and they opened up a little. A little brew which has grown into a full scale community is the best way to describe it. The space is incredible and it's just such a huge opportunity to come back, see a local company that's done very well and has become quite a regional success. And I think the sky's the limit, so we're going to explore a little more of that today. SRI
- [01:51]
C
should be a lot of fun and doing it live from a brewery is not something I had in my bingo card for 2026, but here you go. So I want to thank all of you that listen to us and our sponsors. Without you, this podcast doesn't exist. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Make sure you're subscribing to our podcast on your preferred listening platform or you can get our latest episodes, even go back to consume some of the 590plus episodes we've already published. And I want to thank Brian Spencer from Kroger Precision Marketing for being our host, having invited us to the 8451 headquarters where we got to record two lovely podcasts. Be out shortly for you as well. Includes Helion in one of those conversations. So we look forward to that. And earlier we were at the CPD Ignite conference with the Insights Association Keynoting kicking off today as well. Now it's John Fitzgerald, Senior Director of Growth, Marketing and local brewery right here in Tennessee, the Queen City. We're here to meet with Kroger, do a keynote with the insights I mentioned this morning with none other than Northern Kentucky University. Just like that, in a four hour window. John and I went back and forth on LinkedIn. We got the question set up and this podcast is actually being executed. And you guys, man, how you doing?
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A
I'm doing great. It's exciting to be here and love how it all came together in the
- [03:16]
C
digital show notes of this episode. We'll of course include links to John's LinkedIn profile. Mad Please Corporate websites for our listeners to access while we go on with our conversation. So let me jump right in, John, I'm going to straight to your past. P and G Kellanova. You spend years in what many call the universities of png, especially universities of cpg, especially png and then Kenova. What's one core discipline or strategic framework from that world you found most indispensable when running a craft brewing brand like madtree?
- [03:49]
A
Yeah, no, it's one a lot of privilege to come from both of those places. I'd say. The number one thing I remember is being obsessed with your customer and understanding not only why they're using your products, but the tension points that lead them there. So really just like being, being obsessed with the customer, understanding again the value proposition that you have, but also the value proposition that they view that you are solving for their issues. So really being smart about understanding those tension points, understanding those whys, digging deep into the whys and really understanding that besides before just jumping into tactics or thinking that your assumptions are correct. So really just understanding the consumers.
- [04:31]
B
Hey John, welcome to the podcast and thank you for your incredible hospitality. Taking us on a tour of the facility, giving us a little bit of the history, showing us such incredible hospitality. We could not be more appreciative. What I want to talk to you about is this concept around innovation in your past life, particularly Procter and Gamble innovation cycles can take frankly not months but years and millions of dollars in research and development. Matri, things move at the speed of the tap room, which can be pretty fast. How do you find the balance between kind of that big CPG rigor that P and G kind of instilled into your DNA and the fast fail agility that's frankly required in the craft brewing industry as consumer tastes and preferences change on a dime.
- [05:26]
A
Yeah, no, that it took getting used to of. We do not have an upstream team that's been working on innovation for three plus years who hands it to us to execute. Right. If anything, it's like we have to understand the industry very well. To what I just talked about. We have to really understand our consumers, not only who's coming into our spaces, but who's buying us and distribution as well. And I'd say the fail fast area is with a lot of our products, we can turn those around and two to four weeks we can get real time feedback from our consumers in the tap room. One thing I love is like everything that's on our board, you come to any of our spaces is there very intentionally. And that's because we're trying to learn more about that product and how our consumers interact with that. So I think one, being able to move quickly but also being able to move principled is very important. And then just being as smart as you can with all the resources that we have, if we have data point A and B, then we can move to product and we can move to testing that. But it's important not to skip the why. And again, understanding those tensions when you're creating it.
- [06:32]
C
John, that's awesome that you know you're using old school thinking right from P and G, all the experience that you've gained in innovation today. But I'd love to talk to you about category management captaincy, which you really come from Kelanova back in the day serial, as well as PNG across the board on home and personal care. So these are massive global categories. And when you look at the PL number, which is notoriously crowded, fragmented, how do you actually take a category management mindset where you can be a category captain to help mad3 win at the shelf against the Mega, mega brewers?
- [07:07]
A
Yeah. So I think that's one of the biggest challenges we face every day. When you look at the shelf, you see, look at a. The shelf is getting smaller in size. And I think it's really important of where we have the advantages. With a lot of smaller breweries, you have the ability to affect the shelf regionally where we play. And so I think it's understanding the set. The same principles of you want to provide a set that lifts the entire category, that brings folks down the aisle, but also it's being smart about where we are and the products that we're talking about. So the shelf that I'll recommend in Cincinnati is very different. Than the shelf that I will recommend in Columbus or Cleveland or Lexington. And the mix on that is very intentional and you have to have the data that supports it. But I think that's one of the big things is obviously you want to grow the category, but you also have to provide a solution that works. That means for your SKUs as well as for competition, being very close with the distributors, as we have those conversations as well.
- [08:06]
C
Actually, one quick follow up on that one. Is working with your distributors a different experience than you've ever done working with, you know, P and G and Kellanova, where you work with retail or does it feel the same?
- [08:19]
A
Yeah, I'd say it's a different level of partnership. Right. So I'd say, you know, we have to sell to our distributors who then sell to the retailers. And we were very lucky that we have great distribution partners but at the same time, like they're also our customers. So we do have to make sure that we have the right items that fit into their portfolios that are going to fit into the retailers and that we have solutions that again help them, that help them sell. So I'd say it's, it's different levels for sure, but you also have to be very close with the retailer and the distributor. So I'd say it's, to answer your question, yes, very different. Because effectively you have to make sure your product is willing to sell across all of those lenses and then who
- [09:01]
C
takes leadership on the planogramming front for retail? The distributor or you guys?
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A
So we will work with the distributor on having that leadership. Usually with the distributors, they have multiple brands they work with and so we'll provide our input, we'll have those discussions, have that level of partnership there, but ultimately they're the ones coming up with those plans.
- [09:22]
B
Obviously, John Madtree is a beloved Cincinnati brand, but if you want scale, you're going to have to focus on distribution, particularly in a category which is subject to the three tier system, which is legally mandated. The manufacturer, the distributor and the retailer are separate entities. So my question is, how are you leveraging your background in retail partnerships to ensure that Madtree goes from being just a local favorite to dare I say, must have brand for regional and even national brands. When you get to that scale, what is it that you're bringing from your experience to help Madtree on that journey?
- [10:08]
A
I think what I start with always is like relationships with the buyers. And so that's not only with the distributors, but also with all of those retailers, but also with those store managers as well. So to grow at Kroger outside of really the three divisions where we play pretty strongly and now you have to have the data that shows that at least where you are now is where you're winning and then create that reason to believe. So I think it starts one with being very close with the store managers, with those who help you out with your displays. One of the big learnings that I've taken is for instance at Kellanova, when we're pitching our back to school buses, you get national distribution on those. Your team goes, they put in the displays that execute them. Awesome. They sell. Now it's we pitch in the display, we get them, but then it comes back and you get the sheet, the planer from Kroger that now we're priority 11. And when I first saw that here I was like, what on earth does priority 11 do? Is like basically you are the 11th priority. There's everyone ahead of you on who gets the displays. And if you don't have the relationships with these store managers there, then they're not going to help you with a winning solution to get you in there. And so it's making sure that my sales reps are armed with the tools and the ability to go and create those relationships. And so one, you're starting off building those buyer relationships. Now we get those displays. Now we get those, that incremental volume. Now you're able to have that data that provides you that reason to believe when you're looking to expand. That's been a big part of our expansion strategy and discussions. When we talk about going into new markets, specifically when we look at Cleveland, Toledo, Columbus, Louisville and Lexington, it's having those relationships. And then when we're in those new markets building those relationships using the connections that we have. But I think it all comes back to you have to be on the same page with your buyer, otherwise it's not going to help. And it needs to be a genuine relationship as well where there's trust and they know that you truly are working for something that's going to help everyone out.
- [12:12]
B
John, a follow up to that, if I might. So as you look to expand into a new market, what's your lead in? Is it off premise? Is it on premise? Is it a concerted effort? How do you tackle entering a new market where madtree doesn't necessarily have history to make sure that it's a successful launch and you're able, able to expand your brand franchise?
- [12:35]
A
Yeah, so I think about this like from the true Omni lens. Right. And I mean Omni of not necessarily just like shopping online, but it really starts with the, the on premises where we need to be winning because that's where they have the opportunity to drive the most trial and also the least commitment. Right. Like one six or seven dollar pint is a lot less than one ten to $12 six pack or a, a $25 24 pack. Right. So making sure that we're winning on premise is how you drive that trial. And then also being very smart about how we go into these new geographic regions, even breaking down a county by the stores, by the independents, by the on premise locations where we need to win and then expanding that out. If we go and just say we need to win in Columbus and so now we just go and throw a dartboard in Franklin county, that's not going to be a winning strategy. But if we're able to again like really segment that through, drive the trial where we think we have the best right to win, then we've seen that's been the best recipe for success with us so far. And it's been really fun to see those numbers in Columbus really over the last year.
- [13:43]
B
And if driving trial on premise is the goal is part of what you're doing going in, educating the people in the, in the bars where your product is first being introduced to help them understand how to talk about the beer and get people excited. Because I have to imagine the storytelling and connecting consumers to the brand is really what drives success.
- [14:09]
A
It's huge. And that's where we have to lean in on not only the product and how it's differentiated, but also the brand and how it's differentiated. And you know, it's really easy in Cincinnati to tell the, tell the story of how much we put back into Cincinnati parks and what would mean to the Cincinnati community, but where it's really different is like why would someone in Columbus care about that? But that's where we can really lean into the B core to the 1% to where like you're helping out the planet when you purchase madtree, when you talk about our differentiators of our quality lab of our, you know, we don't go out of stock. We have, you know, our replenishment rates are super high and so they know that they can rely on us. And that's where you're crafting a different story that helps differentiate your brand and help you win again, win that keg, win that case this way.
- [14:51]
C
That is a perfect segue to my next question, which is about community. We've learned that Madtree is a member of the 1% for the planet. What does that mean? And from a leadership perspective, how do you ensure that sustainability isn't just a marketing batch, but a functional part of your supply chain, your operational DNA for a company that works a lot with aluminum, glass, plastic, things of that nature.
- [15:14]
A
Yeah. So one of the things I love about Madfree is we're 1% for the pointed organization. We're also a certified B Corp. So the 1% means 1% of all of our revenue goes back into communities, into environmental nonprofits. And so when you buy anything from us, the revenue immediately goes back into the community. And you know what I, what I love about this is we can look at our entire supply chain, we can look at all of our hospitality and figure out how we can use these to help build out our brand and tell that story and also be sustainable. Right. Like not just a marketing tactic like we were talking about. One of the examples I love is the amount of shrink wrap that we were using in our products before they went out the door. Uh, we were able to take a real serious look at how much plastic we're using and what was necessary. Um, and in 2025 alone, we saved over a ton of plastic from going into the landfill just by being smarter about it there. When we talk about how we use our spent grain with our beer, right outside our brewery, there's a gigantic silo where all of our spent grain gets filtered to. Rather than just throwing that away or getting rid of it, we have local farmers who pull up with their trucks, and we fill up their trailers with spent grain, and then that goes, and that feeds their cattle. So it's immediately going back and getting reused. When you come into our spaces, from a hospitality standpoint, everything that we do is going to be about compost, about recycling, about not just throwing things into a trash can. I love that it's kind of hard to find a trash can in our spaces because everything can go directly into recycle, reuse, or into compost. And that's, again, granted to everything we do from how we can reuse the water that we're using in our beer, because a lot of. A lot of water is needed to brew beer. So how do we recycle that? How are we responsible there with our canning processes? We choose not to shrink wrap any of our cans. It's a little more expensive. But again, it's all about building through a true sustainable lifestyle and brand. And again, not just a marketing thing, but truly in our DNA and who we are.
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C
You,
- [17:19]
B
John you manage a very complex customer journey. It can start in the tap room, it can start on premise at a bar, it can start in a grocery store. There are multiple points of entry for your category. I guess my question is this. How do you still manage to maintain what what you're hoping is a consistent customer experience and how they see the brand regardless of what their point of market entry is. And you can ensure that that journey will carry on from however they choose to come in contact with madtree for the first time.
- [17:58]
A
Well, so that's the where marketing is fun, right? Where marketing gets exciting. We craft to exceed expectations. We are warm and welcoming. Those aren't just slogans. That's like when folks come into our spaces at any of our three locations, they know that they're going to get a smile and a greeting at the door. They know they're going to get great service. They know they're going to get high quality beer, sway and food along that entire journey to then now we know that folks are coming in to celebrate. One of my favorite things about our space is you could see a 1 year old's birthday party or a 75 year old's birthday party, then there's graduation parties all in the middle there, right? Folks come to celebrate those big occasions. So from a marketing standpoint, it's really a full cycle of how do we evoke that emotion when that folks get into our spaces now when they're at a bar or restaurant now when they're at the shelf getting ready to make a purchase now it's making sure that we evoke those emotions of the joy, the quality, the warm and welcoming that they get when they're in all of our spaces. And I think that's where marketing has a really fun way to do it with how we communicate, whether that be on social, on email, any chance that we have to get our voice out, even with the way we talk about merch and how we design that it's all about promoting the brand and really those those that key pillars of us. Again, crafting to exceed expectations. Warm and welcoming, building a company that our kids will be proud of, being part of the community, connecting folks to nature, it's all really important and you just have to make sure that that cycle is repeating itself right where they love our space, now they want to buy us, now they want to try us when they're not in one of our spaces. But maybe that's also how we introduce them into the brand is hey, this is a really good spot. I'm going to Go home and Google Matri. Now I can learn about those spaces and go visit us. So it's a really fun cycle to manage and to dig deep into. I think that's the most fun part of marketing.
- [19:48]
B
Yeah, you've done a really great job at your tap room in particular. John, regular listeners of this podcast know that I don't drink alcohol, but you didn't even flinch, like, hey, I got this great drink. It's called the Imaginary Friend. It's non alcoholic. I gotta tell you, that little mocktail was delicious, John. Outstanding. And I could see that the environment was very family friendly. Food on site, alcoholic and non alcoholic beverages. That was a community environment, not just for a bunch of adults to go have a drink. So kudos to you, sri.
- [20:30]
A
Thank you.
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C
Yeah, I also want to thank John for being a great host. Right. We got a tour of the brewery. We got to see how product is actually made, which was pretty cool. I remember the cooling tank. It was just. And at some point you're going to see that in my personal Instagram and TikTok feeds. I'm yet to make the full video, but it's going to be there.
- [20:49]
B
But I smelled my little hops pellet this morning.
- [20:53]
C
It's actually in my pocket.
- [20:54]
B
It's a strike. It's my memory.
- [20:56]
C
John, why don't you tell the audience what that is and what Peter's talking about?
- [21:01]
A
Yeah. So as part of the tour, we, we source all of our hops from the Pacific Northwest from hop farms out there. And that's an annual trip that our brewing team makes out to not only source the hops, but make sure that we can maintain the quality with the hops. One of the great examples I like to use is if there's wildfires in the area, then that can affect the crop and the yield. And so we have to be very particular about the, the crops that we're sourcing in and, and where in the fields that they even are. And one of my favorite parts of the tours that I love to give is coming in, actually getting the hops. You can smell them, you can even taste them if you want. They're very bitter. I love the smell, I love the taste. But I also love IPAs. But it's just being able to hold the hops and being like, this is what the core of the flavor is that comes out with the beer. And it's just such a fun experience, part of the tour, to actually see that and smell it and experience it,
- [21:58]
C
you know, Our community is now going to research on Google what hops means. So, all right, so let's get into some data driven brewing. So coming again from a CPG background, you're used to a wealth of consumer data. Like really a wealth of consumer data. Right. In craft beer, though, data can be fairly opaque. And the way most brands today progress in either innovation, development, their distribution gains, just being competitive in the market share game is they build a full view of the consumer. And so how do you do that? And this interview would be incomplete unless we asked you using AI somewhere in the mix to, you know, profile the next big flavor, seasonal trends. Especially given your role as the one stop shop for growth.
- [22:47]
A
Yeah, so one, absolutely. Using AI as a data point on how we leverage new flavors, new trends, new pack sizes. Frankly, you can get, you have the Internet scour or AI scour every single brewery in the country and you can see like what the prominent flavors are. It's going to come out and say it's mostly ipa, but there's interesting flavors that you can draw to and see trends by different regions. So we absolutely use that. Um, from a data standpoint, you know, we still use scanning data. We still understand shipments and depletions and how those go across. What I don't have is the level of depth that I had at Kelanova or P and G. I don't have the CMK or analytics and Insights tools. So that's me and two of my sales managers and a marketing team. And so we, we work on all that together. But I think we do things like we bring in focus groups is one big thing and we talk directly to the consumers. We look very heavily at reviews and what folks do talk about our. Internally, we have a big testing system with our quality control teams to make sure that our products are coming out consistent and when we're developing new ones, that we're getting the best of the batch. And that's the recipe that we're moving forward. So I think utilizing that data all as single data points, then how you bring all that together, as I alluded to earlier, every single thing on our menu is very intentional on why it is there, on why it's on the board, on where it is and how we want to learn about it, and then it's bringing all of that together. So it's still utilizing that big data mindset, but just in different avenues and how I pull it together.
- [24:21]
C
Can you share for our audience how in this category, a consumer group, a panel works? How do you guys actually put together panels? How do you actually, you know, in the Old world, you were doing a B testing. So how does that work here?
- [24:36]
A
Yes. So we have a great group of loyal fans who love to give us feedback and we have an email distribution for folks who want to give us feedback. And so I'd say one, you can go onto our website and you can sign up to be a part of that team. But two, we'll bring them in. Well, the example I'll use is we were testing out our lime beer and one, we had a few different variants for lime beer that we wanted folks to test, give feedback on. And then we also had that compared against competition and so that was closer to that a B test of providing feedback of rank ordering. You didn't know which one was which. We'll do that across a lot of our brands and have that competition, that competitive lens to really understand, but then also just understanding of like, hey, how are you shopping our products in our spaces, at off premise locations, at on premise. What are you looking for? What do you like about what we do? What do you not like? And then probably one of my favorite parts is testing through all of the different concepts that we have. So we have some really fun innovation coming out here in the future. And frankly with these focus groups it was, hey, here's concept A. Let's talk about it. What do you like, what do you not like? What resonates with you? What are the emotions that come when you look at this packaging, when you see this product and use that across all three concepts? And then like I was talking about earlier, using all of those as data points to help us make that decision. It's bringing in. You see a group of 10 to 15 people really just getting their feedback.
- [26:10]
B
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- [28:18]
A
Yeah, no, that's like a fascinating one. So I'd start with is we do not subscribe to the stratum data per se, so we don't have the access to all of that there. But where it gets a little tricky is because with the three tiered system, so we sell to our distributors or our distributors then sell to the retailer, so we are able to track depletions. So then we can see what the retailer is selling to or, excuse me, what our distributors are selling to our retailers. And then you can triangulate that with what's actually scanning at the shelf. But what you don't get is that like that level of granularity, at least for what we have from who specifically is buying. So you know what, scanning, you know where it is, you can narrow that down. But it's kind of a chicken and egg thing, right? Like if you're not getting the depletions, then you're not getting the scans. So how do you make sure that you're getting those depletions? You're getting the product out of the distributor's warehouses. So then now it's, it's scanning, it's understanding both of those and the relationship there. Because then it's kind of, if you're, if you're scanning well, then you're getting the depletions, then you should be getting the orders that come through. But if they're slowing down now, as you forecast out, it's going to take a little bit longer. But from a data perspective, I'd say probably the biggest thing is just by us not having that stratum access. We're not as we're not able to get as granular as you would at a account of or a P and
- [29:37]
B
G. I think this is a lesson to our legislators that the three tiered system was developed long before big data was big data. And handcuffing brands from leveraging powerful customer insight simply because of the category they're in. That may necessitate a revisiting of how the laws governing the three tier system are actually put into practice. Me advocating to the industry, I'm not asking you to do that. That's me. That's me saying, hey, it might be time. But let me get back to what I really want to talk to you about, which is changing consumer behavior and preferences. Jeff, to say that the industry is in a state of flux around adult beverage would be an understatement. Shift from beers to hard seltzers to mixed cocktails. I just read a story in the New York Times a couple days ago talking about how in the challenging economic times we're in, so many people are pre gaming they're having a cocktail or two at home before they go out. Obviously, when it comes to share of stomach, Madtree is not trying to behave like a certain St. Louis based, very large manufacturer where they think they can own 100% share of stomach. You're trying to make sure that you're part of the repertoire, so to speak. How are you thinking about evolving your product portfolio to capture all these changing demographics and maintain the relevance that madtree seems to have established with its loyal following?
- [31:11]
A
Yep. So a lot to unpack on that one. Right? Like one, we, we know that folks come in here and it used to be like you're going to drink, you're going to have your beers, then you're going to go home. Now it's like it's not uncommon for someone to have a beer cocktail, go back to a beer. I want to try something different. And from a sharer stomach standpoint, how we stay relevant, it's making sure that we have things that folks want that we think is going in, going in that direction, but not losing sight of who we are. So you know, from an intentionality standpoint, not everything you see in our spaces is going to be packaged and sold there. But we are paying a lot of attention as to, you know, what's growing in the categories. Anyone who's looking at RTDs ready to drink cocktails knows that these still, the lemonades, the teaspoon are really growing right now. And so, you know, from a developmental standpoint, you know that that's probably an area that we need to go to. But it doesn't mean that a vodka cocktails are just going to go away and fall off either. It's how do you now mold our portfolio moving forward to include both of those, to have that growth but again not become too fragmented on where we are while still maintaining the core. So it's, it's understanding the consumer, meeting them where we are and then how do we kind of mold all of that together? And it's tricky. I'm not going to lie. That's one of the big difficulties I'm working with right now is making difficult decisions on how we add to our portfolio. And that means there's certain products that we're not going to be adding and frankly you can make a justification for any of them. But it's again using the data, understanding your customers, what they're looking for and then projecting out what you think is going to have the, the biggest growth in the future.
- [32:58]
C
You know, that leads to a very important question. Peter and I often talk about the importance of data, as we did in the last couple questions we did with you. Speed to Insight is a big one. He talked about market share, how the laws that from a previous era literally don't make sense anymore from a data and insight standpoint. You know, we just came back from a visit with Nielsen IQ where we learned now they're releasing data with a two day lag and they're releasing daily data. So you know, there's a certain segment of the CPG universe that's getting true Speed to insights. For a regional brewer, how important is that to you? And do you have the ability to do that real time inventory sales data so that you can input it into your production planning and then what do you do with those uncomfortable supply chain moments? Do they actually happen?
- [33:44]
A
The uncomfortable supply chain moments absolutely happen. Just the other day we had a boiler go down. And so that meant when a boiler goes down on Friday, that means your shipments for really the next week and the next four to six weeks are going to be affected. So it's one being very transparent with our distribution partners about what we're going to have, what's going on as soon as we can get them their product, like what we can get to them while still maintaining that quality. So I think the big piece there is making sure that again you have the relationships, you have the trust, you're being transparent about what's going on. So those things absolutely happen. It's just, you know, building those relationships to make sure you're good to go from a, you know, two day lag standpoint, I would love to have that ability. I think one unique area that we have is we do have our, our sales reps who are on the ground every single day as well as our distributor reps who are on the ground every day. So when things are happening quick, when those depletions do happen, we're able to get on the phone and have the conversation. And if that means we need to load up the truck and get a delivery made either that day or the next morning, we can, if we can add it to next week's, we can do it. But there's, I mean, anyone listening to this probably understands there's only so much you can do when you're relying on, you know, a handful of people to be in those locations. And so I think if we had that data, I think it would not only allow us, I think it would also help, you know, consumer expectations too, because now they're not going and seeing empty shelves. The example I like to love to use is we have rounding third. It's our red ipa, you know, made for spring and for baseball season. We noticed that like in, in Toledo, it depleted like almost immediately. And we're like, what on earth is going on, going on up there? And we realized it was the Toledo Mudhead, the minor league baseball team downtown Toledo does a big opening day event and we probably need to load up more for that next year and have that communication with our distributor. Luckily we were able to understand that and react to it quickly. But, but again, that was by nature of having a person on the ground there. If you don't have that, then you're SOL and now you're having empty shelves and the customer's not happy, the retailer's not happy, the distributor's not happy. So yeah, any opportunity for faster data I think is a win.
- [35:59]
C
And so can I flip the question on its head? If you can't get faster data, is it a problem in just your weekly day to day monthly analysis, do you have to live the old world of P and G in Kellanova where you have to do share reporting, growth reporting through your leadership?
- [36:19]
A
Yes. So that's one of the things that I've instituted here is like a lot more business reporting and everything because we have to know the state of our business. We have to know brand health, we have to know how things are interacting within our spaces and outside of our spaces, by region, by retailer type as well. So you know that's still operating on a weekly monthly quarterly basis, much like we would at Big cpg. What I would say is, you know, the question of is it a problem? I would say it isn't necessarily a problem, but it is a gap that we're not able to fill because we do have the ability to make these fulfillments quickly in some cases. And so I'd say it's a lost opportunity more than it's a problem right now.
- [37:01]
B
John, I get to ask the last question today and I'm sure that there are a lot of people out there listening to this podcast who are sitting in roles at very prominent CPG brands like the ones that you used to work, work at. And they're thinking, wow, wouldn't it be great if I could move to a scrappy, purpose driven brand? Any advice you can give to them about the reality of what that's like and whether what made you decide it was right for you and maybe it's not right for other. What's the reality check that they should go through as they start to think about that transition?
- [37:42]
A
Yeah, I'd say the first reality check is I assume if folks are listening on here, they probably have people reach out to them on LinkedIn all the time about making moves and whatnot. And a lot of I'd say not all nonprofits or mission driven companies on how they appear on paper or what they are in reality. And I would say there were a couple companies that, you know, I talked to and the more I dug deep into it on the surface it seemed like it was great and the perfect move. But then you realize like, oh no, like these guys may not exist soon and they're asking me to come perform a miracle that frankly is just not possible or they're just not aligned like outside of the surface. When you dig deeper, they're not aligned with their own personal values. So I'd say take the time to really dig deep on understanding, you know, where those operating dollars are going to, talking with employees, but also the owners to make sure you understand like what the true mission is. And I think that helped me land on, you know, where I am today and like in a very good organization. So those watch out that say don't apply for what's happening at Madri, but I'm glad I did my due diligence with others because it allowed me to be here. The second piece I would say is, you know, when you're looking to make those changes, I love the fact that I can work for a company that's mission driven. That's so important to the Local community where our founders, they started this, this journey brewing beer in one of their basements. And now it's grown into three locations. We're opening a fourth distribution in two states. And it's tremendous responsibility and pride that I take in that they have trusted me in growing their vision. But with that also comes probably the most stress and pressure that I've had in any of my roles. And not to say I don't have the probably the highest job satisfaction. And that's not a knock to anyone I worked with. I was on awesome teams and worked for great leaders. It's just a different level of stress that comes with that now. So that is there. But I'd say I do have the higher satisfaction. And I have an unbelievable spouse who also like supports me and allows me to make what would someone call some of these crazy business and career moves. But I'd also say like, go for it, it's worth it. And I loved every minute of it.
- [40:02]
C
Did you mention you guys are opening another location?
- [40:05]
A
Yes, we are opening a fourth location shooting for July, August timeframe this summer.
- [40:13]
C
And there's something special about that location, right?
- [40:16]
A
Yes.
- [40:16]
C
What is it?
- [40:17]
A
So what I, what I love about this new location is it's about 10 miles north of our Oakley Tap Room. It's going to be our second Alcove location. So Alcove is our higher end bistro style restaurant. Still the great matri, you know, craft to exceed expectations. Quality, warm and welcoming that you're going to get. But this is going to be more of that sit down. That date night, that girls night, that anniversary celebration dinner. Elevated menu, still our beer, still our sway. But also great wine program, great cocktail program. And again, that elevated experience. So it's actually about 300 yards from our Parks and Rec location. But it's a very different concept and serves a very different occasion. Which is why I'm so excited for this, this new location to come to Blue Ash. Selfishly, now I know I can. I have that spot a lot closer to me too. Yeah, just again, that elevated experience. A different concept than what you'd experience at our Tap Room and at our Parks and Recreation.
- [41:16]
C
And are the CPG guys invited to that one?
- [41:19]
A
Yes. I would say once we start planning out some soft openings and everything, I got to hit up my distro guys, my retail guys. But then you guys definitely. I'd love to have you guys there.
- [41:30]
C
All right, Peter, I think a recording is in the works live from the new location. We just have to find a quiet spot and get it done. But let me remind our listeners, you can find all of our content by simply going to a web Browser and typing cpguys.com as the URL. If you know someone who has something to contribute on this ongoing discussion of the CPG guys, please drop us an email@contactpguys.com or we have a new email. Reach uspguys.com to our audience. Thank you for the clicks, likes, comments, direct messages, meeting us at trade shows, coming to our events, recording episodes like we just did today with John and to our sponsors. We're always grateful for you. Show doesn't exist without all of you. You work with us all year. We're grateful to have you as your audience and partners. Thank you Peter. Pleasure doing this one. What an interesting episode from somebody who's clearly an expert from his past life in the CPG world and has bought it into a brewing company. I'm really, really, really excited that we got to do this and get insights from John directly. What's your big takeaway man?
- [42:32]
B
Well, my takeaway is I'm glad they have so many different types of hats in the gift shop because apparently John wears all of them. He's got quite a number of responsibilities. It's not like the old days with a highly matrix, multi department large investment CPG brand. John Scrappy. He has to be. That's the nature of the business. But clearly it's something that he loves and it's an environment in which he thrives. Madtree is building very connected relationships with its audience. It really is very much about the customer experience, carrying it throughout the Omnichannel journey. However, people are connecting with the brand on premise, off premise and I am looking for big things to happen to madtree. I fully expect sri. There'll come a day when you'll walk down the street into Woodland Hills, the RALPH store there and there will be a mad tree, probably a couple of flavors available on the shelf. Looking forward to it.
- [43:34]
C
There's no doubt Peter. I mean to me what stood out was his use of taking the existing capabilities that he had from his past of data insights, running a brand like a very scaled CPG brand, bringing it here and helping scale this. So congratulations on that John. What a pleasure to have you here today with us.
- [43:55]
A
Thanks guys. It was a blast. Really appreciate it.
- [43:58]
C
That was awesome brewing Peter and I couldn't miss the opportunity to do this when we were in Cincy. Like I said, this was developed in force, but what a fun conversation. That's a wrap up this episode of the CPG Guys.
- [44:17]
B
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