The CPG Guys Podcast: Real Time Bidding in Retail Media with Macy’s Michael Kranz and Pentaleap’s Andreas Reiffen

Date: February 7, 2026
Hosts: Peter V.S. Bond & Sri Rajagopalan
Guests: Michael Kranz (VP of Retail Media, Macy’s Inc.) and Andreas Reiffen (CEO & Co-founder, Pentaleap)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the rapid evolution of retail media, focusing on the integration of real-time bidding (RTB) and the unification of organic and sponsored search. With Michael Kranz of Macy’s and Andreas Reiffen of Pentaleap, the conversation explores how these advances are reshaping the customer experience, bringing more relevance, transparency, and efficiency to brands, advertisers, and shoppers alike. Key themes include breaking down existing walled gardens in retail media, balancing monetization with customer experience, and how brands and retailers can future-proof their investments in a dynamic, data-driven landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What’s Broken with Search Today?

Sponsored vs. Organic — The “Church and State” Divide

• Michael Kranz identifies a historic problem where organic and sponsored search run on “two completely different algorithms solving for different things” (04:21).

• For Macy’s and Bloomingdale’s, focused on lifestyle/fashion, shopper trust breaks when results surface irrelevant but high-bidding items.

  “If you show the customer the wrong style of shoe just because the bid was high, you aren’t just losing a click, you’re losing their trust.” — Michael Kranz [05:18]

• Andreas Reiffen expands, explaining that “users...want a frictionless experience” and don’t care about the ‘sponsored’ label — they just want relevancy (05:27).

2. Balancing Monetization and Experience

• Macy’s is acutely aware of not allowing a “pay-to-play” model to degrade shopper trust (07:52).

  “We cannot and will not allow a pay to play model where a low relevance item can buy its way to position one right up there in the upper left hand corner.” — Michael Kranz [08:26]

• Sponsored products must be “at least as good as the organic product it’s displacing.”
• The prevailing philosophy: Protect the customer journey first; monetization naturally follows healthy conversion rates.

3. Unifying Sponsored and Organic Search

• Andreas explains that siloed systems miss out on overall profit maximization (09:29).

  “If you operate in silos in swim lanes, there can never be an optimal rendering of the web pages... That’s why you need to bring those two worlds together into one single unified logic.” — Andreas Reiffen [10:30]

• Higher CTR and conversion rates stem from unified logic; testing at Macy’s saw more than double the CTR and conversions for relevant sponsored placements (13:18).

4. Metrics That Matter — “Pogo Sticking” and Analytics

• Kranz introduces “pogo sticking” — when users bounce after clicking on irrelevant results, signaling broken trust (11:54).

  “That tells us that we broke the promise of the search experience… we watch it very closely.” — Michael Kranz [12:03]

• Real-time analytics are now crucial; advertisers want to tweak campaigns mid-flight, and closed-loop measurement is expected (14:16).

5. The Limitation of Closed Ecosystems/Walled Gardens

• Reiffen highlights the fragmentation pain with over 200 retail media “walled gardens” (14:57).

  “If you want to grow your retail media business... none of the big companies can just rely on scaling trade budgets. So the question is, how do we meet brands where they already are?” — Andreas Reiffen [15:53]

• U.S.-only challenges like Robinson-Patman Act further entrench legacy practices, unlike EMEA, where budget integration is simpler (17:05).

6. Advertiser Wish Lists & Interoperability

• Advertisers want friction reduction: Operational ease, standardized measurement, ability to use their DSP/data stack, and Macy’s high-value audience bought through their preferred platforms (18:23).

  “Ultimately they want the Macy’s high value audience, and they want to buy it with the ease of the open web.” — Michael Kranz [19:15]

7. Opening Up Retail Media & Addressing Misconceptions

• “Opening up” means modernizing the transaction layer, not sacrificing data control. Brands can bid programmatically, but retailers maintain pricing and brand safety (24:13).

  “We aren’t really giving away the keys to the castle. I like to say we’re installing automatic doors so partners can enter more easily.” — Michael Kranz [24:36]

• RTB doesn’t mean the “wild west”; there’s still control, relevance, and endemic-only products — just easier, more transparent access (24:50).

8. RTB: What’s New & Why It Matters

• RTB replaces costly, complex API integrations with instant, scalable “ad responses” from multiple sources, democratizing demand (27:12).

  “Demand from the outside world with functional RTB tech is much easier to plug in. It’s almost cost-free to maintain. And that’s why RTB will change the game fundamentally…” — Andreas Reiffen [29:08]

• Enables a “hedged garden” model: direct and programmatic demand compete in real-time, optimizing yield and relevance (30:29).

9. Agility & Efficiency: Real-World RTB Outcomes

• Decoupling demand from ad serving lets Macy’s test new ad formats, plug in new partners, and boost yield without losing experience control (30:29).

  “It turns our ad server into a true marketplace rather than just a delivery truck.” — Michael Kranz [31:21]

• Retailers see higher clicks, conversions, and ROAS; shoppers get more relevant results; advertisers gain broader, easier access (32:02).

10. Advice to Brands and Retailers: Future-Proofing

• Brands: Decide whether to build direct retail relationships or use broad, convenient programmatic tactics — now they have options (34:58).

  “It’s for the brand simply a new add on, a new possibility. Nobody is forced... it’s just a new opportunity.” — Andreas Reiffen [35:51]

• Retailers: Embrace best-in-breed, composable ad tech for flexibility, relevance, and frictionless demand (37:26).

• Michael’s perspective:

  “Stop looking at retail media as just a conversion channel at the bottom of the funnel … brands need to start looking at the branding power of these environments.” — Michael Kranz [38:14] “Don’t lose the art in the data science ... we are really inspiring humans to make purchases that make them feel good. The tech should support the inspiration, not replace.” — Michael Kranz [38:48]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you show the customer the wrong style of shoe just because the bid was high, you aren’t just losing a click, you’re losing their trust.” — Michael Kranz [05:18]
• “In the previous world, we had a clear division between paid and organic. Users don’t care about whether a product has a sponsored label; they want to find products they are looking for…” — Andreas Reiffen [05:27]
• “We aren’t really giving away the keys to the castle … We’re installing automatic doors so partners can enter more easily.” — Michael Kranz [24:36]
• “RTB will change the game fundamentally towards exactly what you said, Peter. It’s now, let’s call it a hedged garden model.” — Andreas Reiffen [29:08]
• “Best in class media really should feel like a personal stylist, not a billboard … the customer is actually grateful to see it.” — Michael Kranz [36:41]
• “The tech should support the inspiration, not replace.” — Michael Kranz [38:48]

Timestamps & Segment Highlights

| Time | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:21 | What’s broken about organic and sponsored search? | | 05:26 | Why user experience matters more than paid/organic distinction | | 07:52 | Balancing monetization with customer experience at Macy’s | | 09:29 | Why unify organic and sponsored for relevance and business performance? | | 11:54 | Measuring relevance and eroding shopper trust: Analytics as the new battleground | | 14:57 | Closed ecosystems and the problem with “walled garden” retail media | | 18:23 | What advertisers really want: lowering friction, programmatic access, standard data| | 24:13 | Debunking the myths: What “opening up” retail media actually means | | 27:12 | What’s new about RTB, and how is it changing the game? | | 30:29 | How RTB enables agility, higher yield, and a true marketplace | | 33:33 | Real results: Higher relevance, more value for all parties | | 34:58 | How brands should rethink their retail media/investment strategy | | 36:41 | Shopper-first: Best-in-class means “personal stylist, not a billboard” | | 38:13 | Final advice: Flexibility, composable tech, and the “art” in data-driven media |

Takeaways & Final Reflections

• Unified, relevant search is the future: Siloed, “church and state” systems lose shopper trust and underperform. Unifying organic and sponsored is a win-win for all parties.
• Composability and openness drive growth: Agility comes from modular tech stacks and RTB’s democratizing power — not legacy, monolithic platforms.
• Shopper experience reigns supreme: Retail media should be personally relevant, value-adding, and non-intrusive—a “personal stylist,” not a billboard.
• Brands and retailers must adapt: Brands need to leverage both retail partnerships and wide-reaching demand platforms. Retailers must modernize, measure, and inspire.

This summary provides a comprehensive guide to the episode, highlighting its critical themes, practical insights, and memorable guest perspectives. Whether new to retail media tech or an industry veteran, listeners will garner actionable takeaways around RTB, shopper-centricity, and the evolving landscape of digital commerce.