Retail media measurement captaincy with Albertsons media collective's Liz Roche

Summary

The CPG Guys Podcast: Retail Media Measurement Captaincy with Albertsons Media Collective's Liz Roche

Release Date: January 25, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The CPG Guys Podcast, hosts Peter V.S. Bond and Sri Rajagopalan engage in an insightful conversation with Liz Roche, the newly appointed Vice President of Media and Measurement at Albertsons Media Collective (AMC). Recorded live during the 2025 CES conference in Las Vegas, the discussion delves into the evolving landscape of retail media, the critical role of measurement, and the strategic initiatives AMC is undertaking to enhance consumer engagement for brands and retailers alike.

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Guest Introduction

Liz Roche brings a wealth of experience in media and consumer engagement to her new role at AMC. With a background spanning roles at Groupon, Facebook, LinkedIn, Conversant (now Epsilon Haas), and Accelerate 360, Liz is poised to drive innovative measurement strategies within AMC. Her inaugural appearance on the podcast sets the stage for a deep dive into the future of retail media measurement.

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Key Topics Discussed

1. Integration of Media and Measurement

   Liz emphasized the importance of unifying media and measurement under one roof at AMC. This integration is pivotal for enhancing speed-to-market and efficacy in delivering value to both shoppers and CPG partners.

   "Bringing media and measurement under one roof gives us a very distinct advantage when it comes to speed, to market, and efficacy."
   — Liz Roche [10:22]

2. Overcoming Industry Fragmentation

   The conversation highlighted the existing fragmentation within the retail media landscape, where media and merchandising often operate in silos. Liz articulated AMC's commitment to a holistic approach, fostering collaboration between different departments to optimize shopper experiences and drive incremental returns.

   "Media living in silos, merch living in silos. We are one team with a clear vision centered on bringing value to shoppers and CPG partners."
   — Liz Roche [14:54]

3. The Role of Measurement in Retail Media Growth

   Measurement was identified as the linchpin for the growth of retail media. Liz discussed the necessity of trust, transparency, and reducing confusion in measurement practices to help brands allocate their budgets more effectively.

   "Measurement is really the linchpin for growth. We need to bring trust and transparency to help brands understand where their dollars are most effective."
   — Liz Roche [16:05]

4. Incrementality vs. New to Brand Metrics

   The hosts and Liz debated the importance of incrementality over the traditional "new to brand" metrics. Liz advocated for a focus on how retail media can change consumer behavior and drive long-term value, rather than merely counting new customer acquisitions.

   "Incrementality and new to brand are crucial KPIs, but we must look at the bigger picture of lifetime value and changing consumer behavior."
   — Liz Roche [20:04]

5. Impact of AI and Clean Rooms on Measurement

   Addressing current industry trends, Liz confirmed that AI has been integral to media strategies for some time and will continue to play a significant role. She also explained the concept of "Clean Rooms" as secure environments where partners can share and enrich data while maintaining privacy.

   "Clean Rooms are great for two partners to share insights in a privacy-safe environment. Their effectiveness depends on the quality of incoming data."
   — Liz Roche [27:54]

6. Future of Retail Media and Standardization

   Liz outlined AMC's dedication to standardizing measurement practices in collaboration with the Interactive Advertising Bureau (IAB). She anticipates vertical growth in retail media, driven by innovation and the industry's move towards greater standardization.

   "Standardization is necessary. We're looking to define what total partner value looks like and lead in testing and learning for our CPG partners."
   — Liz Roche [22:14]

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Insights and Conclusions

The episode underscored the critical need for integrated measurement strategies in retail media to drive meaningful growth and value for both retailers and brands. Liz Roche's insights reveal a strategic focus on breaking down silos, fostering collaboration, and leveraging advanced data analytics to enhance shopper experiences and optimize media investments.

Key takeaways include:

• Holistic Approach: Combining media and measurement to create a seamless strategy that benefits all stakeholders.
• Trust and Transparency: Building reliable measurement frameworks that brands can trust to allocate their marketing budgets effectively.
• Focus on Incrementality: Shifting the emphasis from merely acquiring new customers to driving long-term value and changing consumer behaviors.
• Embracing Technology: Utilizing AI and Clean Rooms to enhance data-driven decision-making while maintaining privacy standards.
• Standardization Efforts: Leading industry-wide standardization initiatives to streamline measurement practices and promote consistency.

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Notable Quotes

1. On Integration of Media and Measurement

   "Bringing media and measurement under one roof gives us a very distinct advantage when it comes to speed, to market, and efficacy."
   — Liz Roche [10:22]

2. On Overcoming Fragmentation

   "Media living in silos, merch living in silos. We are one team with a clear vision centered on bringing value to shoppers and CPG partners."
   — Liz Roche [14:54]

3. On the Importance of Measurement

   "Measurement is really the linchpin for growth. We need to bring trust and transparency to help brands understand where their dollars are most effective."
   — Liz Roche [16:05]

4. On Incrementality and Lifetime Value

   "Incrementality and new to brand are crucial KPIs, but we must look at the bigger picture of lifetime value and changing consumer behavior."
   — Liz Roche [20:04]

5. On AI and Clean Rooms

   "Clean Rooms are great for two partners to share insights in a privacy-safe environment. Their effectiveness depends on the quality of incoming data."
   — Liz Roche [27:54]

6. On Standardization and Future Growth

   "Standardization is necessary. We're looking to define what total partner value looks like and lead in testing and learning for our CPG partners."
   — Liz Roche [22:14]

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Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the current and future state of retail media measurement, highlighting the strategic initiatives of Albertsons Media Collective under Liz Roche's leadership. Listeners gain valuable insights into the importance of integrated measurement strategies, the role of advanced technologies, and the industry's push towards standardization—all crucial elements for brands and retailers aiming to optimize consumer engagement in a digitally driven marketplace.

For more detailed discussions and updates, listeners are encouraged to follow The CPG Guys on LinkedIn and tune into related episodes that delve deeper into the evolving dynamics of the CPG and FMCG eCommerce landscape.

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Additional Resources

• Albertsons Media Collective: Visit AMC's Corporate Site
• Liz Roche on LinkedIn: Connect with Liz
• Previous Episodes: Available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify
• Cornell Retail Media Strategy Program: Learn More
• Supporting Charities: Links provided in the episode's digital liner notes

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Disclaimer

The content in this podcast episode is provided for general informational purposes only. By listening to our episode, you understand that no information contained in this episode should be construed as advice from CPG Guys LLC. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent.

Transcript

[Liz Roach]

Hi, I'm Liz Roach from the Albertsons Media Collective and you are listening to the CPG Guys Podcast.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. Your host, Shree Rajagopalan and Peter V. S. Vaughn explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in an increasingly digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG Guys. Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. I'm your co host, pvsp, and when I'm not podcasting this humble little venture, I serve as head of industry and client engagement at Flywheel, the E commerce accelerator division of Omnicom. Joining me for today's episode, he's my co founder. He's also the patriarch of the Raj family media empire, which includes his two daughters, Lara and Rhea, and of course his wife Kavita, who hosts the podcast Lights, Camera, Conversation. Lest we forget his three cats that have such a huge Instagram following that they humble us in comparison. Of course, I'm talking about the man known as Papa Raj. I call him Sri. Sri, how you doing, man? What's going on?

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Doing awesome. Pleasure to be here in Las Vegas with you, Live from the sky suites themselves, CES. This is probably our fifth year in a row, maybe 10th year in a row we've been to CES. I look forward to this. It's become one of the premier retail media conferences and I'm glad we're actually recording this awesome episode on Retail Media live here. How you doing?

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

I think what's amazing, Sree, is this is increasingly one of the two events that you're going to find just about every CPG Chief Marketing Officer, Head of Advertising at that would. The other one being Cannes Lions this summer, which we're planning on attending. It's a pretty big event. They're heading up to the Sky Suites meeting with all the retail media networks planning out the year and it's a big year in 2025. I think the general vibe here is that in 2025, one, retail media networks have to deliver on the promise of full funnel marketing. The second thing is scale has to be achieved. And the stat we know is that between Amazon and Walmart, that accounts for about 84% of all dollars spent in retail media, which means the other 60 RMNs are basically fighting over 16%. So there's gotta be a bit of a come to Jesus moment in the retail media industry. There's gonna be some consolidation, there's gonna be some collaborations, some things. I think that's why it's just incredibly timely that the CBG guys are partnering with Cornell University to offer the first of its kind retail media strategy program. We've got 12 sponsors, all names very familiar to you. We're going to have 60 people in the room. We're going to be looking for a lot of the big brands to have their CMOs slash heads of advertising represented. Sree, it's like Hamilton. It's going to be the room where it happened, right?

[Evan]

Yeah.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

And Peter, for those of you that want to know more, simply tune into a previous episode that was post it on LinkedIn. You can simply go search for CPG Guys Apple Podcast or CPG Guys Podcast page, retail media or Dan Hooker from Cornell University. Please do tune in. It was an immediate previous episode, so please do tune in. You can also find tons of content in the digital liner notes as well as Peter, simply by going listening to the video clips on LinkedIn.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Yeah.

So thank you Sri as always for joining me. Today's episode was phenomenal. We recorded it on day one, shortly before the kickoff party that we hosted on Monday 6th January. And it was also the very first day employed by the Albertsons Media collective of our guest. Liz Roach joined us to talk about media and measurement. It's a really great conversation. Before we get to her, I'll just make mention. If you listen to us on Apple or Spotify and you're so inclined, make sure to leave us a rating. It helps people find our podcast, it feeds the algorithm and leave a review. So we actually know how you want us to guide the conversation in our community. It's important that we hear from you. What do you want to hear more of? What do you want to hear less of? Are there particular people you want us to have on this podcast? So I think that's pretty important. And we also ask you to follow our sister podcast, the FMCG Guys over in Europe, led by Daniel Frayne and Christine. It's a great podcast. They just crossed 20,000 followers on LinkedIn. Kudos to the three of you and of course our friends Jennifer and Risa who host CPG Scoop, which just recorded their 50th episode. Really great on that. And we would also make mention of links to their podcasts, also to the Cornell program and lastly a couple charities that we think are worthy related to the incredible apocalyptic fires that happened in the Los Angeles area that SRI you were affect by. We're going to put those all in the digital liner notes of this episode. So without further ado, let's go to our episode with Liz Roach.

Hello and welcome to the CPG Guys podcast. I'm PBSB co host and co founder. I also serve as head of client engagement at Flywheel, the E commerce accelerator division of Omnicom. Today we're coming to you from the Aria Resort and Casino in lovely Viva Las Vegas. Should I start singing straight during the 2025 CES conference? Joining me in the hosting duties for today's episode is of course my co founder of the growing media platform. He's the chief revenue officer at Think Blue Consulting and patriarch of the Raj family media empire.

[Evan]

I have to laugh at the end of it.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

It's a little nefarious. Of course, his media empire includes his performing artist daughters Rhea and Lara Raj. And of course his wife Kavita, who co hosts the iHeartradio podcast, Lights, Camera Conversation. She should be at that iHeart party next door. Let's hooping it up. I don't know why she's not there. Most recently, he served as chief customer officer.

Generals.

He's the man known as Sree. Sree. Welcome to Vegas, Peter.

[Evan]

What a pleasure to be here in Las Vegas. This is, I don't know, 10th year in a row. 15 years in a row. And this is probably the seventh, eighth year in a row. Minus. No, we weren't even here Covid year because it was January. Meeting with Armen during this, hosting our event later tonight at the time of this recording.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

But it's a pleasure to do this.

[Evan]

In person as opposed to doing it remotely because we can actually shake hands. And I'm thrilled that we're actually recording somebody today whose first day on the job and had the bravado to not say no to us.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Chutzpah. It's an era.

[Evan]

I'm honored that this person is actually doing it with us.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

On day one.

[Evan]

She could have been elsewhere. She could have said no. But she said, I'll take it head on, which means we're gonna have a good time.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

I have no doubt.

[Evan]

I'm jet lagged. I won't. I won't hide that you've been in Japan. You were in Australia, Apple Music Awards picking up an award, but here we are.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

I'm sorry, you dropped an award ceremony name.

[Evan]

You didn't notice his shoes, did you now? Oh, good. Okay.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

All right. Anyhow, SRI Can't. Can't be more excited. I know. I don't know about you, but during this event, I'm betting heavily on the CPG bets. What do you think?

[Evan]

I'll go with Albertson's media.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Okay.

I don't know. Why. Before we get to our guest, a few housekeeping Details. Please make sure you're subscribed to our podcast on your favorite platform by clicking on the Follow option. If you listen to us on Apple or Spotify. And please, while you're there, leave us a reading. It helps a rating. Rather, this helps feed the algorithm that makes us more discoverable by industry contemporaries. And while you do leave us a review so we can tailor our content to your interests, make sure to include our sister podcast, the FMCG Guys, CPG Scoop. You know, CPG Scoop just hit 50 episodes.

[Evan]

I wanted to mention that it's a big deal. Also followership, 20,000 for the FMCG guys and for our listeners here. By the time this episode is released, CES would have come and gone. But I just wanted to mention this is the first year that you and I are being press coverage off the actual CES displays. So for those who missed it, go back to CPG guys on LinkedIn and check out all the press coverage we did.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

And let's go back to FMCG guys. They hit 20,000.

[Evan]

20,000 followers.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

They're starting to catch up.

[Evan]

I know. We better.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

We may have to take it. May have to take Daniel out.

[Evan]

The odds of you and me running fast, though, are pretty low.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

I know. That's what I worry about. Okay. Anyhow. Okay. With the housekeeping done, let's get to our very special guest today. This is our guest first appearance on our humble little podcast. It's a little cottage industry we have here at the CBG guys, but her company's made numerous appearances. Today she was announced as the brand new Vice president of measurement and media at Albertsons Media Collective, the retail media division of Boise, Idaho based Albertsons Companies. She has a rich experience in media and consumer engagement, having held roles at Groupon, Facebook, LinkedIn, conversant, now known as Epsilon Haas and accelerate. 360. Please join Sri Me in welcoming to the podcast Liz Roach. Liz, welcome to ces. Welcome to Las Vegas. How you doing?

[Liz Roach]

I'm doing great. And first and foremost longtime listener, obviously first time caller today. Absolutely honored to be on the podcast. Peter. Sri. I love you guys. So this is a dream come true for me.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Thank you, thank you. We love. It's funny, I've already taken five selfies with people. Two of them were at the airport. It's. I think the fact that I had a CPG Guys branded suitcase was the dead giveaway. I know we're there. You can call us many things. You cannot call us subtle. You're not subtle. But I love Liz. Before we get I know, I know. We've got lots of swag. We're going to get Liz and swag too. Don't worry. You really are a do it yourself. Sree. Before we get to the questions Sri and I have prepared for today, why don't you share some highlights on Albertson's media collective and your specific remit as you go into your new role. Sure.

Yeah.

[Liz Roach]

So you, you mentioned it, but I'm starting as the vice president of media and measurement over at the collective. A interesting role, a new role. So bringing media and measurement under one roof, really important, I think, gives us a very distinct advantage when it comes to speed, to market, when it comes to efficacy, and really being able to align ourselves with our CPG partners. So it's an exciting time. It's an exciting role. It's absolutely a dream role for me. Couldn't be more thrilled.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Well, that is great. So for our listeners interested in learning more about Liz and the collective, we have links to her LinkedIn profile and the Albertsons media collective corporate site in the digital liner notes of this episode. So you can browse and learn while you listen to our melodious tones in this conversation. No one ever charges.

[Evan]

This is gonna make me sing.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

I am, I am. Yeah, but you're not gonna sing. You're gonna rap. Because I don't think you sing. It's rapid. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, Liz, let's get to the questions. I'll open it up today, obviously, as we mentioned, Albertson's announced you and your new role at the collective. I'd love to hear from you what intrigued you about both the collective and the role you're entering. That said. Yeah, that's something I think I want to do.

[Liz Roach]

Yeah, of course, the collective. I'm sure you have experience with the collective. The energy in this organization is just contagious. There is a can do attitude. It's a yes and mindset. I love the innovative, everything is possible culture here. And it was really the people that got me interested, I'd say, as someone who's worked in data, strategy and media for my career. The frequency of the category and the power of the first party data under the Albertsons roof makes it so intriguing for someone like me to really shepherd that into market. And that was really what sold me on this role.

[Evan]

Hey, first of all, I want to say congratulations on the new role.

[Liz Roach]

Thank you.

[Evan]

The CPG guy certainly looks forward to not working with you just today and doing one episode. But as you in your unique role that you have AMC has already done a fantastic job of shaping measurement standards with IAB. We look forward to what's new, what's to come, etc.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

We haven't had the collective on in over a year, have we?

[Evan]

I think you're 100% right.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

I think their, their marketing media person, Liz has been. Elizabeth's been keeping people from us.

[Evan]

I wonder how we can find.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

We have to break through that, that whole somehow.

[Evan]

We're gonna have to meet her in person.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

I know she doesn't get. She doesn't usually grant audiences, but we'll have to see what we can do.

[Evan]

We'll figure it out. Man. One day, one win. Today, today. Let's get this one done and then we'll bang.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

We'll do that.

[Evan]

Okay, we'll do that. So all that said, you know, obviously your career background, you've been working in media, retail media for quite a bit, but it's been on a different side of the fence. Yes, the services side of the fence, which is really agencies at the end of the day. And then you also have a pretty solid social media platform background. Retail is a whole different piece, especially the new world. You're going to be hit up with the in store world and the click and collect world, etc. Which is so far away from a merchandising perspective from anything media whatsoever. Some days it felt like the worlds don't even talk. So how are you actually going to approach this? Especially everything you'll offer at amc. Client management discussions with your merchandising counterparts to ensure that whatever you are charged with, you can actually deliver and you can make sure that AMC wins and.

[Liz Roach]

Albertsons wins, of course. So you mentioned it. I've been working in service of retail for quite a long time. That was really my focus at Epsilon Conversant as well as at Meta. But a rare known fact about me is that my first job after college was as a produce associate at Mariano's grocery store in Chicago, Illinois. So I am someone who has been boots on the ground in a store. I walk a little bit. Walk the walk. I can break down produce into very uniform pieces. That said, the question you ask is definitely an important one and I think what exists in market today is a lot of fragmentation. Media living in silos, merch living in silos. And another thing that attracted me to the collective is the mentality that we're all one team in service of making the shopper experience better and making the experience for our CPG partners better. Which is why we're organized under one Roof. And that brings, you know, merch, e commerce and digital, as well as media into one place. So despite having different seats and different roles, we are one team. We have one real clear vision, and that's all centered on bringing value to shoppers and bringing value to CPG partners.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

That's pretty good.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Awesome. I do want to follow up on.

[Evan]

That question and ask you in your previous lives, right. Have you actually had a chance to get in front of merchandisers, buyers, etc. As you work for the agency, or did you observe that that world was pretty far away?

[Liz Roach]

I think saw a little bit of both, actually. Working with Albertsons as a partner, that they were the most integrated partner, media bringing merchant into the mix, which, again, another reason why this was a great fit. But traditionally, we've seen those be two very separate functions, and it kind of misses the plot, right? The plot is to bring that experience into stores to sell more product. So I think really focusing on that vision is crucial to this role, but also to the who ethos of the. Of the collective.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

So we're conducting this interview inside of Evan's garage. Give or take. It's not Minnesota, but it's. It's a representation. So. And it makes me think of the term measure twice, cut once. So I guess my question is this. How do you see measurement playing a pivotal role in accelerating the growth of retail media? And what do you think has been holding back brands from. From making retail media a larger and more prominent part of their marketing strategy?

[Liz Roach]

So I think that measurement is really the linchpin for growth. Every year, marketers, media buyers are asked to do more and give in less. And comping the year is really tough. We need to make sure that we're bringing that trust, that transparency to bear when it comes to measurement. And we also need to reduce a lot of the confusion. There's a lot of fragmentation in market, and. And we need to make it easy for our CPG partners to work with us, and that hinges on measurement. They need to know where their next dollar is most effective, and we need to be the guiding light in helping them figure that out.

[Evan]

You know, before I get to the next question, I had a little bit of a follow up on that one, and this one actually drives me crazy in the industry, having come from trade myself, but on the brand side. And that is how, as an industry, we've done a pretty terrible job of breaking out trade Spanish, which really is about displays, features, things of that nature, and other things that are just getting slotted inside a store. And then Retail media has not really found a home yet because it's been, let's go to shopper dollars, which really is this extra budget that sits on top of media. And then you got a whole media budget. So I really wanted to dig in and ask you, do you think retail media is media in the first place, or is it one of those things that's halfway between media and trade? And is it truly an orphan or is it really part of. Should it be part of a marketing mix?

[Liz Roach]

It's part of the retail experience by far. And again, the way that we're situated at Albertsons, that's a big goal for us. Understanding how trade dollars, media dollars work together to truly drive incremental returns. Where is the one plus one equals three, right? And how do those mechanisms work together organizationally? It's tough when you live in silos. We have the advantage of breaking down those silos and really trying to answer that. But I don't think any of these mechanisms work well as a point solution. It has to be integrated and looked at holistically. And frankly, that's how we should be measuring too. We should be measuring holistically at the partner level and really trying to understand which ingredients into the puzzle are driving the most effective returns.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

So how do, how do I.

[Evan]

How do we at the CPG guys interpret that? So when we look at, let's say, a vendor, right? You guys have hundreds of vendors and you say vendor, a brand. At the end of the day, a brand makes investments. Are you looking at it holistically and then trying to coach them on, hey, if you're making X investments, we suggest you put A here and B there. Or how does this equate?

[Liz Roach]

Yeah, I think it's all about figuring out which. Which media placements, for example, or which channels are going to drive that incremental impact. So if you are running, for example, you know, trade promotions here or there, how can we really amplify that and bring the biggest return to bear? Again, operating in silos just doesn't make any sense. If our ultimate goal is to sell more product and bring that experience to the shopper, we need to look at that holistically.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

And to that end, the measurement that you will perform on behalf of the brand's investing, that the KPIs will depend upon what the objective of the campaign is. Like you're not going to be looking at incrementality when you're launching a new product, that the measurement there is probably going to be more around the impressions you're trying to introduce.

[Liz Roach]

Yeah. Household penetration. I mean, I think, yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot of different KPIs that we need to look at. But again, it has to be holistic. How did the placement and the merge strategy play into if the efficacy of media makes sense?

[Evan]

The hot buzzword in the industry right now is incrementality new to brand. I think sometimes people just use the word new to brand because we're going through a volume crisis. When you're. When most brands off by 1 or 2%, it's billions of dollars at the end of the day adding up by retailer. Are you a big believer in iOS as like the leading guide and new to brand is the leading guide because.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

That'S what we hear on the show all the time.

[Evan]

Yeah, we got to figure out new to brand. I'm like, new brands have been around for five decades.

[Liz Roach]

It's funny you mentioned that. I am a believer in measuring incrementality. Absolutely. But I'm also a believer in really trying to understand LTV and understand that shoppers shop outside of promotional periods. We're with a shopper for a lifetime, they're going to shop for a lifetime and a brand's going to exist for a lifetime. And as retailers, we're going to, we're going to be around selling for a lifetime. How are we actually moving the needle and changing customer behavior? Incrementality in new to brand crucial KPIs to fit into that. But I'm looking at it really big picture of can we change consumer shopper behavior on the ground and can we do that from a life lifetime value perspective.

[Evan]

Love, love, love that you have mentioned ltv. And the reason I say that is brands actually not that strong with LTV because they're warehouse and they look at you guys and count on y'all for doing the LTV part. Although CMOs would give an arm and a leg to actually do ltv, they traditionally haven't been able to. So would you. So the real question I wanted to migrate on to over here is Albertsons Media Collective has already built a pretty solid foundation in the industry for measurement. You know, when I talk to iab, they often refer to the work they did with your predecessors here on being that guiding playbook in the industry. Do you see that continuing or what new. Maybe we'll use the word incremental. What new incremental thinking are you bringing to a solid foundation that has already been established by amc, if not one of the best in the industry?

[Liz Roach]

So absolutely, the foundational work here is incredible. I'm looking forward to picking up the torch with iab continuing the standardization, the standardization call to action. I think the industry is starting to pick up momentum in the industry as well. Standardization is definitely necessary. Again, we have to be easy to work with. We need to be easy to measure. But I think, you know, moving forward, that LTV analysis and being able to look at total partner value is something that we're really curious about and something that we want to, we want to bring to bear. We also think that we're in a position to define what that can look like and be a premier partner when it comes to testing and learning for our CPG partners.

[Evan]

This is music to a year. So are we basically coining the word moving from JBP to jvc, AKA joint business plan to join value creation between partners here?

[Liz Roach]

I like it.

[Evan]

Hopefully that's what we see. You are the first second on the.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Show, she said, not you.

[Evan]

This is awesome. You were the first to come on the show and refer to the collective investment, which is where we have been focused on and have been asking the industry. It's awesome to hear you say that and hopefully the industry will pay attention.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Liz, A recent report from eMarketer, one of the leading sources of market share and all sorts of tracking information across the industry, said that if you aggregate all but the top two retail media networks in our industry, that accounts for only about 15% of the brand spend going against that. So with that in mind, where do you see the growth in retail media for the collective? Is it about growing share? Is it about growing the overall size of the pie that's being sliced up? Or is it both? Like, what is what's going to drive growth that's going to make this a successful business unit for algorithms companies, for sure.

[Liz Roach]

I think one begets the next. First and foremost, I think there's going to be vertical growth because I think we're in very early stages of retail media. I mean, this is still pretty nascent, which makes it really exciting. There's going to be a lot more innovation rolled out and with that innovation rolled out, I think we're going to see more fragmentation, which poses some challenges. Right. But with our efforts and standardization, I think if we can get the industry on board and if we can really drive that, that initiative, we're going to see total vertical growth. There will be some consolidation and some share shift because I think the players that are the most transparent, the most trustworthy, I think the players that are the easiest to work with are going to be the winners. And that's really what our focus is at the collective.

[Evan]

As this industry evolves, measurement certainly is evolving. You've rightfully pointed out that we don't expect that every single RMAN player will actually survive here in the long run. So the smaller ones have to figure out what the act is. One of the things that we have been hearing is they're actually forming collectives. It's kind of humorous that they call themselves a collective. You guys are mc. Do you see these collectives as being effective? Because if you take all of a sudden 7 of those who are struggling have 500 stores each and average running 300, 400, whatever the case might be, pull them together, all of a sudden you get national coverage with 4,000 stores and you become pretty effective.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

I think what he's saying is scale, a component that brands are looking for.

[Evan]

Because brands do care about scale in their measurement. How many impressions can I. If it was truly about media, it would be full funnel and brands should care about up top, which is impressions all the way down to the bottom, lower funnel piece. So how do you feel about that?

[Liz Roach]

I think there's is a place for both, you know, at Albertsons, we do have tremendous scale and we have really, really high level of PII at the register. We know who's shopping upwards of 90%. Right. So we're always going to be able to close that loop and tick and tie it. That said, you know, there are a lot of smaller retailers that if they standardize and they can form a unit there, there's a place for that in market. I think there's a place for both parties to play the common link. I'm sure you're guessing here, but it's standardization. If they can come to the table and if they can do what we all want to do as an industry, then I think there's room for all of us.

[Evan]

So the industry's certainly been struggling with standardization, mostly because our observation is most RMNs have said we have the best metrics, best measurement. However, the IAB has kind of adopted yours, which is good news for you. But now, keeping that as a backdrop, let's jump into trends. The hottest buzzword in the industry. There's some truth to it as well. So maybe it's not a buzzword. AI.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Oh yeah.

[Evan]

And it's not. I. It's actually artificial intelligence.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Sorry.

[Evan]

So I'm not good at it. There is an Instagram account called the Real NFT guys and I wonder who owns that. I don't know who that said, that said, AI and trends. Let's start with AI and then let's talk about other trends. Like do you believe AI is going to be a game changer when it comes to optimization measurement? Because at the end of the day machine learning can just process inordinate volumes of data. The second buzzword that every CIO CTO is talking about is clean rooms. So if I just ask you about those two and we'll come back to other trends. Are you all actively in the business of clean rooms using AI, working with your agency partners to do that?

[Liz Roach]

So in terms of AI, the AI has been in play for, in this, in this industry and specifically in media for, for a long time. This isn't new. I think it's just news worthy right now. So we agree. So of course, I mean of course AI plays a role in all of this, but it's been playing a role, it's going to continue to and it's been playing a role. And what was your second?

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Clean Room. Clean Room Is that the mechanism that brands will use to be able to enrich both the data, both sides, to get more, more desirable audiences?

[Evan]

My concern is I'm gonna have to walk around with bleach and broom.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

No, no, no, that's the cleaning closet. Sree. That's so if you can demystify. No, no, no, that's, that's where you clean your house.

[Liz Roach]

Clean Room. Clean Room is great for two partners who have data and can mutually benefit from sharing insights in a privacy safe environment. What we see is that a lot of the CPG partners don't have as much to bring to Clean Room. So I of course love to have the option and I think as CPGs specifically build these first party data assets, Clean Room is going to be more and more important. But I think that's even more nascent than retail media at this point. So it's a capability that of course we have and we're ready to go. How much it's used and how beneficial it is really depends on the data that's coming in.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

I think that's true. Most of the food and beverage manufacturers, they're not doing direct to consumer. They don't have any meaningful first party where you start to see useful data sets are not necessarily data sets that they own, but they have access to. So like how does the temperature and UV play a role and how can that feed into your campaigns in different areas? But I totally understand why there's, it's a, it's a, the promise is there. It's just the application hasn't quite caught up to the promise.

[Liz Roach]

Yeah but. But it's something to keep an eye on right? Especially as those data assets on the CPG side continue to grow.

[Evan]

One such important question I have for you. It's not a trend question but the industry's biggest challenge right now for brands is the largest brands large market cap brands are really struggling with volume growth. They've enjoyed three, four years and I was parcel to that. So I can't really point fingers here. You know inflation related growth and that has kind of dried up now there is no more inflation inflationary index to kind of lean on anymore. In that sort of scenario the CPG guys bigger retail media can be a powerful weapon if used well. Well planned full funnel mentality especially when new to brand bringing consumer. You know take them through the full funnel all the way from finding, searching, browsing consideration all the way to execution. Is this a story you're telling brands? If you're looking for volume growth come to be your what is the story you're telling brands overall? Because I figure something has to give and this is a powerful weapon.

[Liz Roach]

I think that the story really is about bringing more interesting insights to bear to get that full funnel activation. It's really easy to get Ritz crackers in the cart when someone's searching for crackers. What becomes a lot harder is creating that occasion. But with the foundation of first party data and transaction data that we have we have a lot of different mechanisms to work with those insights to find the occasion and to create that top of funnel interest. So I think there is a huge story behind that but it really is a different way to look at the data from hey get this purchase over the finish line to let's get into the consideration set and change the way we think about insights.

[Evan]

So let's ask for advice before we we close it out over here. Right? From many a CMO and VP and SVP of brand marketing here is what we heard. I need to take back the retail media budgets. I need to make sure it's optimized because I got to do many things with upper funnel activation. Especially I got to get back into TV because it's national. That's how I'll get new to media. Any advice generally for the industry, especially brand people on retail media, why should they come to you versus going to tv?

[Liz Roach]

Sure. Partner with us, talk to us. I think especially the mentality of the collective. One thing I love about the the energy here and about the culture here is that we want to work side by side with our CPG partners and we want to hear what your goals are and we want to work together. And again, I think that all boils down to different ways to think about insights, different ways to think about activation, different ways to think about tv. You know, how about let's talk about connected tv. Let's talk about really getting measurement heavy on that medium and kind of changing the way we think about it. So my biggest advice is pose a challenge to us. There are a lot of smart people over here and we sit on a trove of first party data that we'd love to bring to bear.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Liz Roach, thank you for taking time out of your very first day at the Albertsons Media Collective to spend a little bit of time with the CPG guys to talk about where you see measurement playing a role in brands investing through Albertson's Media Collective. We really appreciate you joining us and we hope you'll come back as you have other things you want to share with our listeners. We'd love to be able to have you back.

[Liz Roach]

I'm looking forward to it already.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Thank you.

[Evan]

Also, thank you to the Albertsons Media Collective marketing team, PR team for working with us to make this happen at ces.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Thanks everybody.

So sri, great episode with Liz. She's, she's taking up right where her predecessor left off. She is ready to double down on the relationship with IAB and the standardization of media measurement. She thinks that's pretty critical and she seems to have a deep experience in media. Having come from that background. What are your thoughts on our conversation with with Liz?

[Sree Rajagopalan]

A couple things I'll point out. First of all, I love that her first job was actually working in grocery. That I think is a game changer when you're a practitioner in your first job. More importantly though, she clearly said to us, hey, I'm going to dive right into all the work we've done on standardization with iab. So I'm looking forward to like, what's next. We even asked her the question. She had the answer for us. And then on measurement though, she said something important. Right. The industry now needs to focus on incrementality. And then I asked her, what about new to brand? Because new to brand, like brands who've been around for five decades are claiming they want a new to brand metric, which literally makes no sense. But she did explain the difference between that and incrementality. And the focus for retail media needs to be incrementality.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Yeah, I think new to brand is critically important. Fortunately for fast moving consumer Goods. Right. Most of the windows they have in terms of their historic data are pretty big. I know one of the people we talked to at CES the day after we recorded this was Patrick Miller and he was talking about the new look back five year window. The expanded from 12 and a half months to five years that Amazon is partnering on with Flywheel that starts really offering new to brand in a much more accurate way to a vast array of brands beyond the fast moving consumer goods like consumer electronics really do have a better opportunity of understanding nuna brands. So I can understand why she's talking about it. It is very much the focus of most brand managers to your point, customer long term value and nuna brand.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

I gotta give kudos to Flywheel for convincing Amazon to give five years of.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

History because I think they nagged them to deshri. I honestly think. Remember what Paul said up on stage? When Paul Kotis was on stage, he sat there and he said every time I talked to Patrick he would mention it every single time.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

But I got to tell you it was important and my hat's off to Patrick and that's why I wanted to video him and talk to him about how he did it. And for those of you that missed it, you can find it on our LinkedIn feed. So that new to brand metric with a five year look back for the first time will allow brands who are non fast moving like food to actually truly understand the history. And yes Peter, one of those things they can truly understand is how innovation played themselves out. But back to Liz. Peter, there was another important thing that stood out to me which was I asked her or you asked her about integration with merchandising and what you said back to us is it's already embedded in the culture of Albertsons media collective and that's how they think about retail media. Any thoughts on that one?

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

Absolutely. We talked at length about. All too often brands are focused on selling solutions in store and that's a unique aspect of the United States that in most markets retail media owns the physical store activations, particularly in corrugated cardboard and semi permanent displays. But if you're not aligned then the brand, pardon me, the ad exec selling retail media is trying to activate and the category manager, the buyer is sometimes at odds. In fact, they think that the money being applied to retail media is not only non incremental but it's actually diminutive in that a dollar spent on retail media upper funnel usually involves other ad tech partners that share in it and therefore it's in the minds of many Category managers and buyers detracting from the, from the profitability of this category. And they have to get over that mentality and really think about the full funnel consumer building activity that retail media delivers.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

And we had that conversation with her. Peter, One of the biggest challenges there is how the inventory is paid for. For example, the price pie down is paid from a upper funnel, sorry above the line trade budget. Then the actual physical execution of the displays played for by shopper marketing. You already called that out, right? Media budget. And then the shopper marketing budget kind of stays in this strange place. Neither in the media budget, neither in the trade budget. In the middle place its own carve out. We got to solve like I machined, I didn't work to solve it during COVID We live in a world which is full funnel top to bottom. Like there's no excuse like commercial leaders step up, do the right thing by the consumer.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

You know, I think you're spot on, sri. I think a lot of manufacturers have abdicated that, that discussion. They're not willing to revisit it. I know that a certain CPG manufacturer based out of southwestern Ohio is very adamant about any check being written to a retailer is an above the line trade investment period, end of story. And, and, and they, they won't, they won't cross that line and they won't revisit it. And I think in this day and age where we're talking about full funnel performance marketing, like listen, SRI and I've talked about this until I'm blue in the face, right? I believe firmly that subscribe and save is a brand investment. If I'm a brand manager and I have an opportunity to buy someone out of the buying cycle for a 5% discount, I should be writing that check all day long. Right? And so we have to get beyond this. Now. It may well mean that we're going to have to then lobby Congress in order to change the Robinson Patman Act. But that was written how many years ago, sri. It's out of date. We need to start recognizing the real world that we live in.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

Back to the conversation on how marketing is trained, right. Philip Cutler Marketing 5104 MBA Class 4Ps and that's marketing.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

It was a great, great conversation with Liz. Looking forward to having her back when she has something new and notable to share with us. You know, the team at Albertsons, you know, we kind of have avoided talking directly with them about the impending and now failed merger with Kroger. I think they've got some renewed spirit now that they have a measure of finality knowing that they're not going to be joining with Kroger and therefore their existence is not in is in peril. I think they're going to be in a position to be very innovative, very scrappy and very controversial and provocative in how they go to market with retail media. And Evan, you know, Evan, the head of product and innovation is right there side by side with Liz. I think it's going to be a really great combination and there's a lot to lot to see coming from AMC.

[Sree Rajagopalan]

As we wrap up this episode. Peter One last mention by me. I want to say a special thank you to Albertson's media collective, Comms and PR for working with us. We have so many of them on the show and really influencing the industry. To Liz Roach, My hat's off for the bravado. Day one on the job. You came on the show.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

You know, Sri, it's funny because in this episode we kind of took, we took a little bit of a shot at, jokingly at our friend Elizabeth Perryman who runs comms for Albertsons Media Collective, but she has been a phenomenal partner of ours over the years. We absolutely adore Elizabeth and Elena Harrington too, who's part of her team. So they know they always have an open door to come back on the CPT Guys Podcast and talk about the incredible journey that Albertsons Media Collective is on helping brands engage their shopper base. Sree as always, thank you for joining us on this journey and to our audience. We say thank you to the 35,000 followers we have on LinkedIn. We are so greatly appreciative that you trust us for both your education and entertainment needs. I'm pvsb. Thank you for joining us. We look forward to speaking with you on the next episode of Wait for a Tree.

[Evan]

Thank you.

[Peter V. S. Vaughn]

The CPG Guys Podcast.

[Liz Roach]

Foreign.

[Narrator]

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