← The CPG Guys
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- [00:01]
Peter Vs. Bond
Hey, it's PVSP with the CPG Guys. If you're planning on attending CES, please join us on Wednesday, January 8th for a breakfast briefing sponsored by CVS Media Exchange. I'll be hosting a panel involving Parbinder Dhalarwal, the General Manager and VP for CVS Media Exchange at CVS Health. Joining us will be Andrew Lipsman from Ads, Media and Commerce. Andrew and we'll be talking about some research that Andrew recently conducted interviewing CPG brands about their retail media investment plans for 2025. Really great information. You'll find it incredibly insightful. Again, it's on Wednesday, January 8th from 8 to 9am if you're interested in attending, drop us a line at contactpguys.com or click the link in the digital liner notes of this episode and you'll be able to learn more about this and we'll get you registered for the event. Looking forward to seeing all of our industry friends at CES this January.
- [01:08]
Mark Baum
Hi, I'm Mark Baum, CCO for FMI Inc. Formerly known as the Food Marketing Institute. And this is CPG Guys Podcast.
- [01:21]
Peter Vs. Bond
Welcome to the CPG Guys Podcast. Your hosts, Sree Rajagopalan and Peter Vs. Bond explore how brands and retailers engage consumers in an increasingly digitally driven world. And now, here are the CPG Guys.
- [01:41]
Sree Rajagopalan
Hi and welcome to this episode of the CPG Guys. I'm of course sri, Co Founder, co host of the CPG Guys, co founder and partner of Thing Blue, your key to unlocking your profitability potential. As builders, connectors and amplifiers, we shape the future of commerce to drive your growth. Please do listen to my older daughter Rhea Raj's music at www.rhearaj.com. that's R H E R A J. My younger daughter Lara Raj is a member of the Geffen Records Universal Music Group Katsai. They've just completed their tour of the Jingle Ball CDs. The hit single Touch is now past 200 million plays on Spotify, Apple, Etc. We're off to Tokyo, we're off to Sydney and my wife and I are looking forward to seeing them perform. Not joining me today is my fellow co founder Peter Vs. Bond. And when he's not co hosting this podcast, he serves as Head of Client Engagement at Flywheel, the E Comm Acceleration division of Omnicom. Before we get to our guests, we may ask you to consider following us in your preferred podcast listening app. If you already don't do so. This ensures you automatically receive new episodes as they release. And while you're at it, please do follow our sister podcast the FMCG Guys the CPG Scoop and now announcing the first Retail Media executive education program in our industry from May 5 to 8, 2025 at Cornell Tech the CPG Gaza Strategic partners with Cornell University for this immersive four day program that brings together industry thought leaders and renowned faculty to share best practices for building compelling retail media platforms. You will discover how to collaborate in creating best in class tech stacks, measure performance to ensure brands Access the necessary KPIs based on Campaign objectives and establish strong partnerships between brands and retailers. In addition, the program will cover optimizing brand strategies using AI driven campaign design at scale to achieve marketing tactics and goals. Links to our Podcast Sister Cast Social media profiles of my daughters Rhea and Lara for more information on Cornell's retail media program with us, you can find it in the digital liner notes of the episode. Now the moment we've been waiting for. The main events this episode I have a very special guest, one that I have over the years followed closely and partnered with and I'll say it publicly, one that I've admired with. I've admired the company that he works for as well. Association. I should say he's cco. None other than fmi, the Food Industry Association. What do they do? Fmi of course, is a food industry association provides leadership to retailers, wholesalers of food, beverage and consumer products, along with their manufacturer, supplier, trading partners by facilitating growth and collaboration and promoting their role in feeding humans, let's say families and enriching lives. Mark, it's both a pleasure and an honor to have you on the CPG guys. Thank you for joining me. That too generous of you to do it a day before Christmas Eve. Welcome to the CPG guys.
- [04:32]
Mark Baum
Thanks so much sri. It's my pleasure to be here. And happy holidays to all your podcasts, viewers and listeners out there. And congratulations to Cat's Eye on their phenomenal success. Looking forward to a really happy holiday season as we sprint towards year end in the food industry. But it's my pleasure to be here with you today.
- [04:51]
Sree Rajagopalan
Thank you for joining me, Mark. You know the food industry has gone through a little bit of turmoil last 24 months, but we'll talk to that during the Q and A segment. But thank you for that quick hello back to me, but before we get started with our Q and A segment here, could you kindly give us a quick overview of FMI and what it serves and what your role as CCO entails?
- [05:14]
Mark Baum
Sure, I'd be happy to. So the Cliff Notes version, although I think you did A great job of explaining who you are in your opening statement is that we are an international trade association. We represent companies and all the individuals employed by those companies. And in our case, that's fast moving consumer goods companies, retailers, wholesalers, and then we've got a huge bevy of service providers and technology partners as well. And we do all of that in the service to the industry to advance our collective interests as an industry. In some cases to deflect criticism or unwanted regulation or other onerous burdens that are placed on the industry. But ultimately, sri, we're a trade association that, working with and through our members, serve consumers. That's our number one job, is to take care of our mutual customers, those consumers and their families and their communities.
- [06:12]
Sree Rajagopalan
There's no doubt about it, Mark. At the end of the day, our mission number one, you, me, the entire industry, brands, retailers, doesn't matter. As long as we keep focused and really delivering for the consumer, this industry will continue to be a better place than it has been for decades and centuries at this point. So thank you for that overview. In the digital liner notes of this episode, of course, we'll include links to your LinkedIn profile, Mark, of course, FMI's website, as well as LinkedIn page for our listeners to access while we go on with our conversation on the call. So a lifetime of leadership, not just fmi, but lifetime. I use those words very carefully. Take us through the years, Mark, and then what got you or brought you to fmi?
- [06:54]
Mark Baum
It's really leadership is really the culmination of a lifetime of lessons if you really think about it. Lessons learned and applied along the way. Going back to my retail days in high school, working, you know, in the service deli, I think I, I think I fell in love with the industry all the way back then, then had the good pleasure of working for a snack food distributor in Brooklyn in my early days. I like to say I'm a recovering snack food and candy distributor who lived to tell the tale. Some days were harrowing, but I learned so much about the business there. Just, you know, in terms of procurement, in terms of selling, in terms of customer service, in terms of finance, all of those things at a very young age really helped me shape my view of the industry. And literally 40 some odd years later, here I am. So it's been a wonderful path. I've had some great mentors along the way. Early on in my career, I was able to kind of climb up on the backs of giants and stand on their shoulders. They were willing to take a risk on me. And then that allowed me to learn how to take risks on others and work with others and leading from a variety of capacities and positions. You don't always just lead from out front. Sometimes you lead from the side or the flank. You need to know what motivates people, inspires them and compels them to act. So applying all of that with great, great, great colleagues over the years has really taken me on the journey of a lifetime in this industry all over the world. As to how I got to fmi, well, that's kind of a funny thing. I was in consulting and have had a longstanding relationship with the organization. I went to my first FMI convention back in the day in like the late 70s, not long after the organization was formed. I knew a lot about it. And with our consulting firm, we facilitated the strategic planning process for FMI back in 2012 and 2013. Really their first blueprint for the future. And then, you know, I'll just say I did the one thing a good consultant should never do. I actually signed up for the implementation of the plan. So here I am 10 years later. I lead our commercial practice, if you will. That's the business of the business. So we interact with the leadership of the industry to identify the most important issues that need to be addressed at scale. We prioritize those issues and then we get about working with our members as trading partners, as individual industry segments, along with a number of our advisory partners to help lead the way towards large scale transformational change. And that takes place in a variety of ways that I'm sure we'll probably talk about.
- [09:40]
Sree Rajagopalan
That large scale transformational change you speak to Mark is no easy feat, right? You're challenged every single day, whether it's brands, retailers, creating value for them, but most importantly, you work with several stakeholders. You know, I do remember fondly my first job in retail when I got out of college, I was in this, as you know, in the snack and beverage business for PepsiCo, running a route. I learned more, I got to tell you in that in those first few days running a route about the store, than I pick up now looking at a scorecard. That said, Mark, talk to us about one or two leadership principles that anchor you every day. Managing this diverse group of stakeholders that you have to.
- [10:21]
Mark Baum
Yeah, that's a great question, sri. And you know, it is challenging. I know as a consultant how much pride and pleasure I got out of helping a client move the business. Right? And that's just inside the four walls. Now think about moving an industry. It's Exponentially harder to do. You've got a diverse set of stakeholders, all ostensibly coming together for a common purpose. But you have to stay grounded in it, and you have to keep your eyes on the prize. And there's definitely a lot of frustration inherent in that process. And you can't let the frustration get in the way of your achieving your objective. So I guess for me, the guiding principles around leadership are what I call the three P's. One is purpose. Always have that purpose. That's why you get out of bed in the morning. And to your point about walking a store versus looking at a scorecard, you know, everybody's got a mission and a vision. That's not the same thing as purpose. Purpose is why you get out of bed in the morning. The second is passion. You have to have an abiding passion for this business, and that keeps you true to the cause, and it helps you fight through all the challenges that come at you sometimes the inertia that sets in and all of the other obstacles in your path. And the last, and I think this is really important and often overlooked, is pride. We should feel really proud of what we do as an industry. This is a noble industry. You know, we take, you said it earlier, we feed families, we enrich lives, we take care of society. This is fundamental. Maslow's hierarchy of needs has food as one of those three fundamental principles of the human condition. So that to me, is kind of my North Star, and that's what keeps me going through it all.
- [12:01]
Sree Rajagopalan
So awesome to hear, Mark. I personally again, opinion on one, love that over Covid. They weren't conference rooms for meetings where we brands and retailers, we talked to each other. We were able to get in front of the store. That's why for two years, every single meeting were. And I'll tell you something, Mark, when you stand in front of that shelf, it always reveals a new truth that you did not discover on a scorecard. I know we're returning back to the conference room model entirely instead of being in front of the store. But I encourage all leaders in America, brand or retail really doesn't matter. The more time you spend in store, the more you're going to learn, the more you can do what you and I have already concurred as our mission, which is deliver for the consumer. But Mark, that very responsibility in the industry you speak to means we have that ownership of the responsibility to continue to feed families in America as an industry. Each one of us has a role in that. Some may say, hey, my role is to produce Another one may say, my role is to transport Another my same my role is to start product. Another me sell another. You know this another maybe marketing. We play the role of media. You play the role of advocacy and partnerships. But you get to see as a result of advocacy and partnerships, challenges in the industry. As 2024 comes to a close, one of those profound ones is volume. That's not the only one, though. So I'd love to hear from you, Mark, what's on your mind in terms of industry challenges? Is there very few closer to those? You get to hear all sides of the fence and what are today's challenges for retail that really need to be addressed in 2025?
- [13:37]
Mark Baum
Sure, maybe I'll go from macro to micro. But I do want to make just one comment about retail because it's as A.G. lafley, the retired CEO of P& G once said, when that consumer's standing at the shelf, that's the moment of truth. Or to paraphrase the Bard Shakespeare, that's where they decide to buy or not to buy. So it's critically important. There's no substitute for that. Or sticking with kind of my wonky analogies here, as I always say, you have to understand retail because that's where anything is possible. Or as Mary Poppins once said, even the impossible. So there's no substitute for it. But taking a step back from that, if I look at the challenges that we confront as an industry today, first of all, at a macro level, we and you sort of insinuated this earlier on tree. We are in an age of ongoing uncertainty, ambiguity, volatility, and instability. And that's anathema to the historic workings of our industry. But we've been in that state for several years now, and we've managed to work through it. But again, it continues to change. We have a new political administration coming into the US we can talk a little bit more about that later. There's political change sweeping the globe. There are new sort of economic alliances, there's coupling, uncoupling, recoupling of economic partnerships. So we're dealing with that on a macro level and that not having a clear line of sight to those outcomes, that presents challenges. Competition, of course, is the ongoing challenge, both traditional competition and non traditional competition. New players. When somebody asks me these days, like know, so who's in the food business? I kind of rhetorically respond, who's not? Everybody's in it. Everybody wants trips, everybody wants to be in that business. And so that's given rise to a whole new slew of non traditional food retailers, both in brick and mortar, digital, you know, hybrid omnichannel, et cetera. And that means that there's going to be more disruption and there's going to be more disintermediation, there's going to be more concentration and more consolidation. So those are definitely ongoing challenges that we need to look out and across the industry landscape and figure out how we're going to be successful and make our members successful going forward. The last challenge is to me, both the challenge and the opportunity, because it's the most important one and that's the market of one and that's the consumer. So, you know, we talked about the consumer being sort of at the center of a circular value chain, but they're humans, so they're not completely predictable. In fact, as Dan Ariely says, they're predictably irrational. Just when you think you've got them figured out, they go and do something else or behave differently. Sometimes they're really inscrutable, they're harder to find, they're harder to reach. And you know, getting to that market of 1. We are an industry that came of age during the Industrial revolution based on a mass production platform. And now we have to get to that degree of personalization. So we have to go beyond the household. We literally need to get to individuals and what's driving them on their path to purchase. So that's, that's the challenge and that's the opportunity. Because to your point, if we take care of those customers, we'll be around for the foreseeable future.
- [16:56]
Sree Rajagopalan
Well said indeed, Mark. But you referred there. Two things kind of surface to the top of my head. One is the political change, not just a US phenomenon, but a global phenomenon. So we should probably talk about that and why that matters, especially since this is the food business. And then the second one I wanted to briefly touch was the surface level of inflation. Inflation has hit us hard over the last four or five years. I mean, nothing new here. You can say I thanks, Einstein, but nothing new here. That said, Mark, we are now lapping two years of increased costs, increased prices, things of that nature. So if I wore a retailer manufacturer lens, is 2025 the year where we, as a consumer, we have no choice but just to, I would say, adapt and accept the inflated level of pricing or are we still struggling with volume and it's going to continue to be a challenge overall?
- [17:54]
Mark Baum
Yeah, let me back out to the first question because that'll kind of take us into the discussion on inflation. The political environment has changed back in 2016, when Donald Trump was running for president in the U.S. you know, that notion of populism was almost novel at the time. Now it's not. It's gone mainstream. It's sweeping the globe. If you look at elections in India, in the uk, in the eu, now you look at what's happening in individual member companies in the eu, two the most important, Germany and France, you know, are really, really, really struggling. So it's, it's not just kind of a, a novel idea. Populism is sweeping the globe. And I think the difference this time SRI and in the past is this wave of populism is, is, is, is a little bit less reliable when it comes to sort of the outlook on business. So for example, you know, populism associated with the Republican Party to a large degree in the U.S. republicans could somewhat reliably be counted on to be more business friendly. Regulation was responsible, less burdensome. Not so much these days. I mean, there's a lot of distrust of business, particularly big business. We saw that. The living proof of that was kind of the blowback we got on the proposed Albertson Kroger merger. So it's going to be hard to say how it will manifest itself going forward, but we're going to have to be up on our toes, particularly given the emphasis that this incoming administration has placed on their slogan of make America healthy Again. A lot of pressure on food per se, particularly ultra processed food and highly refined ingredients. We have some ideas about how we can advance our agenda and have a seat at the table and make our points known, but that remains to be seen in the months ahead. With regard to inflation, you know, you can talk about the genesis of it. A lot of folks in this industry have never lived it. I mean, the last time we had this kind of inflation was back during the 1970s. So a lot of food industry leaders had never even lived through much, led through.
- [20:04]
Sree Rajagopalan
Mark, I don't mean to interrupt you, but what you just mentioned is something pretty profound. Not that I want to use the word profound for everything here, but when you haven't experienced it in a two or three decade career, it's tough. And you're 100% right. That's what we're going through. I had never experienced this level of inflation in managing to it in three decades in cpg.
- [20:30]
Mark Baum
No, in fact, we went through a very, very extended period of deflation in cpg. You know, when, when, when the. Listen, first of all, we're also a highly efficient business. We deliver food from farm to fork for less than 10 cents of your after tax dollar in this country. We are the envy of the world.
- [20:49]
Sree Rajagopalan
Hard for the mind to, even the mind takes that for granted when you stand in front of the shelf and you expect to buy something for 499. But the way you describe it, just think about that for a second, Mark. For less than time. You can't get a piece of chewing gum for a dime.
- [21:05]
Mark Baum
Even our, our, our, our, you know, our, our colleagues over the pond don't have that kind of efficiency built into their system now. It's, it's a little comfort when you still see the price of eggs shoot up or, or milk or. I mean we, we look at the price of staples as kind of the baseline and we don't want to see what I. Proteins, low priced proteins become inaccessible. Particularly we have a lot of food insecurity in this country to begin with. Too much as it is right now. Having said all that, you know, these factors, these levers caused inflation and we've been living with it for a couple of years. Unfortunately it kind of coincided with going into a political season. So we became a political punching bag in some ways for both parties at this point in time. And as one of our economist advisors says all the time you know, inflation goes up like a rocket and comes down like a feather. So it's taking some time. We continue to advise through our platforms to consumers to, you know, see that inflation actually has come down. You're still paying more, but not as much as you were. You're going to paid less for Thanksgiving dinner this year than you paid last year. It's going to be tough. And we have the sort of the threat of looming tariffs and you know, trade considerations that could provide a huge spike in input costs. We have the immigration and labor issue. These are all variables sree that could be with us for a while. But I don't accept the fact that consumers have to accept the fact that this is just the way it's going to be. We're going to do everything within our power to narrow the spread between the PPI and the CPI and continue to produce, you know, quality, nutritious, delicious foods that Americans can afford and have access to.
- [22:52]
Sree Rajagopalan
You know, Mark, as I think through that inflation issue, the number one thing that surfaces to the top of my head is we're so focused right now, as you mentioned correctly, on the political rhetoric on something huge and macro. And as you've already pointed out, inflation tends to come down like a feather, not, not like a rocket. Right. In that sort of scenario What I've urge brands and retailers over the last two, three years to think about is how you solve opening price points at the micro level versus trying to solve every price point, every pack size, every aisle. You know, figure out the staples that are used to feed America's families every single day. Fix the opening price point, it's better than lethargy and no action. And then build from there. Make a five year plan. Do nothing, doesn't work. Do too much, doesn't result in outcomes. But I look forward to that as I move to the next one. Mark, this one's an obvious one. No senior leader in the industry today can get around the word retail media. Love it, hate it. It's really occupying mindshare. Whether it's delivering against that or whether it should. All debatable. And that's the question I'm going to ask you. Demystify. Does it deserve to occupy the level of mindset that it does? What matters here? Why is retail media so important? Because there is no conversation I have in the industry where someone doesn't tell me, hey, you're an expert, why don't you tell me something about retail media? What should I do? And I'm like, you've got seven other things to worry about.
- [24:25]
Mark Baum
Yeah, so you're right, you can't, you can't escape it. You can't have a conversation without this topic coming up. And it's top of mind for senior executives throughout the industry on both sides of the desk, as well as a number of third parties who have a stake in this game. Let me start with why it's so important. Right? Is this just another iteration we've been spending in media as long as we've been around? Brand building, you know, building equity and those consumer relationships leading towards transactions? It's so important because I'll go back to something I said earlier, sri, this level of personalization, this market of one. How do you reach consumers? Media has been fragmenting. Traditional media has been fragmenting for years. And then we saw a proliferation of cable and then social, et cetera. And now it's not fragmenting, it's splintered, it's shattered into a million different pieces. So how do you reach those consumers? Well, retailers have them as their customers. They've got those captive. You go into a big box retailer and they've got literally, you know, tens to hundreds of millions of customers coming through their door. That's very, very, very attractive. Now question is, how do you reach them in a meaningful way? How does the retailer monetize how does the CPG company get roi? Those are very sort of nascent questions. Right now. We're in this embryonic stage where it's really accelerated exponentially the last couple of years and capabilities are starting to ramp up some. Again, retailers are for the most part not traditional marketers in the sense that they don't have that sort of, you know, classic CMO agency outlook. So in some cases, they're learning those skills within cpg. You know, very well through your own career. Sree, you've seen it go from, from pull to push and now maybe back again. Where's the money going to come from? Is it a reallocation of consumer dollars or does it come from partially, you know, what's been allocated for trade on the push side? Where in the funnel does it come from? How do you measure your success? What are the, what are the agreed upon KPIs? How do you make use of the, the data, which to me is really the currency in all of this first party and otherwise, all of those things are starting to be mapped out because otherwise it's not going to be kind of the, the, the bright, shiny new toy forever. And it's not going to have legs and staying power unless we figure it out. FMI is working really hard with some of our partners to really both demystify it as well as kind of organize it, activate it in a way that we democratize the opportunity for members on both sides of the desk. We're not just making the business case. We're defining kind of the roadmap. We're getting to a common language. We may not get the standards per se, but I think we'll get to standardization and I think that will help the industry going forward. So much more to come over the next couple of years and much more to come from us. But right now, for those who are still on the sidelines, it's getting late in the game already. You better get in, you better get on the field, and you better come up to speed in a hurry.
- [27:31]
Sree Rajagopalan
Thank you for that. Now, Mark, you were here on the show maybe a couple months ago in November on the Thanksgiving time frame with Liz Buchanan from Nielsen iq. Y'all spoke of a report to be published at the release of this recording. It'll only be a couple weeks away from FMI Midwinter. You all are releasing a report. Very high level. Mark, what can the industry expect?
- [27:52]
Mark Baum
Yeah, we're real excited about this and we're thrilled to be partnering with Liz and her team at niq. We will be publishing around towards the end of January. We'll also be presenting to our board, to the members in attendance at fmi, Midwinter and the like. I think you'll see three high level components to this report. One really just kind of the over what's the story about retail media? Right. It's not just the networks, it's the strategy, it's all of the components, why it's important, what it's about. We're going to provide a forecast where we think this is going to go over the next several years. Then we're going to get into some of the details around the framework for retail media. So the first part will really be for executives. Here's a good summary. Here's what you need to socialize with your team. The second part is going to be for the, what I'll call sort of the practitioners, the folks who are on either side of that desk, some of their third party providers. Here's the framework, here's how we need to be thinking about it in that level of detail. And then the last piece is really just going to be kind of a glossary of terms so that we do have a common language so that we're all talking about the same thing and then we're going to build on that from there. But this, and there's been a lot sort of written about retail media over the last couple of years. There's a lot of noise. This will attempt to break through the clutter and be very, very specifically oriented to towards the FMI membership in the industry at large.
- [29:16]
Sree Rajagopalan
I for one will be looking forward to reading that report, Mark, and you're always welcome to come back on the CPG guys and share it as well, which I'm 100% sure we will find a way to partner with you and do that and speak to the different outcomes. But let's take a minute to actually get into the depths of FMI itself and the different pillars, who it serves. Each of the pillars, who do you interact with on a every single day? And then I have a follow up question to that really for brands. But first, why don't you take us through the different pillars and who your stakeholders are and how you engage with them.
- [29:49]
Mark Baum
Let me say this in terms of how we view the pillars, we have three lenses on the world. We advocate, we educate and we collaborate. And I might add a fourth, we also communicate. Right. So that's, you know, advocacy is interacting with government for the most part at the federal, state and local level. I'll talk a little bit more about that when we identify stakeholders, we educate. We have a large portfolio of educational events in person, virtual and otherwise. We have a lot of tools there. We also have a lot of research, close to 50 pieces of research originally produced each year.
- [30:27]
Sree Rajagopalan
Mark, if I can just understand, on the advocate part, your partners from brands and retailers, are they primarily commercial folks or are they the industry relations and government affairs?
- [30:39]
Mark Baum
So on the advocacy piece, we work with either? Well, we work with our leadership CEOs who help to identify and prioritize the issues. And then it's their public policy people working with our very extensive public policy team, our government relations folks, that really roll up their shirt sleeves, get into the regulatory agencies, work with lawmakers on Capitol Hill, with the White House, increasingly in today's world, with state houses as well, municipalities, state department of health. So it's really the experts in the field.
- [31:10]
Sree Rajagopalan
SRI I'd say, Mark, the industry takes the advocacy a lot for granted. You know, the brands that I've worked with, arguably trillion dollars of market cap across all of them, it was not an area we often spoke to but took for granted that FMI was doing. I'd urge brands to do a better job of working with you on the commercial side to really get into details and maybe there are better outcomes to be scripted.
- [31:33]
Mark Baum
Thank you for that. SRI I'll say this, though. So for small companies, we are their advocacy. They don't have the depth to field people in Washington, maybe in state houses as well. And for our larger members, like some of your former employers, I mean, they've got, in some cases they may have a larger staff in Washington than we do, but in many respects we're small but mighty because we work with all of them. And that way we leverage that collective interest as well as all the local stakeholders who are voters in the districts of our legislators. So thank you for that.
- [32:07]
Sree Rajagopalan
To me, Mark, working with you on advocacy is a collective voice as opposed to an individual voice for one issue. And I think that's the difference brands need to understand and embrace and up the ante in this particular area.
- [32:22]
Mark Baum
Yeah, I think you're right, Shree, and I'll say this. While large companies can do a lot for themselves, they don't necessarily want to be on the sharp end of those issues. And that's why FMI as a collective can be the umbrella under which they gather. Sometimes it's the shield and sometimes it's the point of the spear, depending on the issue and the position we take. So that's, that's, you know, that's, that's talked a little bit about education and then we communicate. We are the voice of the industry to a variety of stakeholders and I'll get into the stakeholders in a second and then importantly we collaborate. And by that I mean and we've been talking about that really we bring the industry together under the auspices of FMI to identify the most important issues. Some of them are short term, 12 to 24 months, some of them are longer term. What do we need to accomplish over the 2000s, et cetera. And then those pillars are built around this blueprint of issues. So in no particular order supply chain. We've been through a lot of trials and tribulations. We need to future proof the supply chain workforce and ongoing and will be a perpetual challenge. We've come out of the sort of the hiring crisis of COVID But you know when you were talking about various roles and responsibilities. I'm a selector, I'm a driver, I'm a store level employee, I'm a merchant. That workforce is changing, the work itself is changing, the nature of the workforce is changing and the workplace is changing. Big issue for us. Society and marketplace dynamics. We alluded to this earlier SRI Big issue for us both in terms of competition, the way people behave in society and the way they interact with our members. Big issue Sustainability has gone from sort of off stage to close to center stage. Issues like climate and carbon management and scopes 1, 2 and 3 emissions are now really important. Not just if you're a publicly traded regulated company, but even if you're a small company because your lenders want to know, your risk managers want to know, your employees want to know by the way, your kids want to know, your families. They're driving a lot of those changes today. Your values as a company are as important as the value of the products and services you're providing. Certainly the consumer is the beginning and end. So consumerism is an ongoing perpetual imperative issue. You can never know enough about your consumer. We focus a lot of our research on that and then in the center of all of it is technology. Technology is the great enabler and it touches every facet, not just of our businesses but of our lives as well. And if you're not technology enabled or driven, you're going to be competitively disadvantaged. Our stakeholders. So government talked a little bit about this earlier. Federal, state, local officials, all aspects, other what I'll call non government organizations. The NGOs are stakeholders in our industry. The media, both trade and business media, the analysts who are looking after and evaluating companies performance. The Institutional investors who are investing in those companies and lenders, financial institutions, and importantly and increasingly consumers themselves. They're stakeholders and we have a role to communicate directly to them when need be, particularly as we reassure them. During COVID we've have them maintain confidence in the value chain even through this extended period of inflation. We've had some food safety issues. We want to assure them of the quality of the safety of the products that they're buying, their accessibility and they're not just their nutritional value, but their nourishment. They don't just nourish our bodies, they feed our souls as well. So that's probably the most important stakeholder.
- [36:08]
Sree Rajagopalan
Wow. Let me remind the public that I'm speaking to Mark Baum, CCO at fmi, the Food Industry Association. So I'm going to jump to an area where I personally believed deeply in Mark, which was brand should be investing more with FMI should have a bigger presence at your events. It is an opportunity, after all, for brands to showcase themselves to retailers as the biggest, the mightiest or even mid tier really doesn't matter. So how do you accomplish outreach to brands? How do you accomplish outreach to retailers? Why should brands invest more with you? I for one did believe is the sensible thing to do. The first thing I did, if you remember when I got this role, this past role, was indeed make that change happen. So I'm curious in your mind what you'd say to brands and then how do you accomplish outreach?
- [36:59]
Mark Baum
So, yeah, thanks for that, sri. I'm going to use you as an example, actually, because you did when you first got to General Mills, you said we need to show up differently as a company. We're a household name, we're a big brand company, but we don't show up that way and we don't come across that way and we need to change that. So what better place I think I responded to you than with and through fmi? We've got the right platforms for companies to show up in much more meaningful ways and demonstrate not just, you know, what their products are about, but who they are and where they're coming from and why it's important within that trading partner relationship and to take it to the next level of collaboration. It's one of the things, I think sri that we are particularly good at doing and that is convening the industry not just at scale collectively, but between trading partners. We have a very robust scheduling platform for joint business planning. We'll have at our, at our event next month in Florida, we'll have literally Thousands of individual joint business planning meetings taking place between retailers and manufacturers and in some cases between knowledge partners and service providers as well. It's a very, very sophisticated, robust, safe, secure way of making that happen. So we bring the industry together at scale and individually and we reach out on a regular basis. We try to keep our finger on the pulse of the most important issues that get past just sort of the day to day. Okay, you know, here's what we're doing on, you know, a new product introduction or we've got some order to cash issues or you know, here's our opening and we didn't really get to opening price points, but it was a great point that you made earlier or promotional plans. It's really strategically where do we want to be and what would we look like if we were one vertically integrated company acting in the best interest of our consumer? We are really good at doing that kind of stuff. And so we work hard to convince, you know, the industry both, both, both fast moving consumer goods companies and retailers to come together and work with fmi. I'm really proud to say, probably, you know, from a retail standpoint, we've got the vast majority of all commodity volume represented in both traditional and non traditional grocers and food retailers and we've got a huge number in CPG as well. And making the decision to get vertically integrated back in 2020 and bringing CPG players to the table with all the same rights, roles and responsibilities as retailers turned out to be a really prescient thing. So I think we're well positioned to do even more of that going forward.
- [39:39]
Sree Rajagopalan
That is so good to hear Merc. One area that we didn't touch upon that I think some portion of our audience is service providers. These are, they could be tech companies. You mentioned order to cash, they could be just a builder of a software, they could be a hardware builder. And they use our platform to really build their education around the issues and the challenges and the opportunities in the industry, both retail and brands. So can you talk through your relationship with service providers and why they should be coming to you?
- [40:11]
Mark Baum
Sure. Well, and I guess I'll parse it a little bit. Sree, I'll talk about our knowledge partners, advisory partners. So those are the marquee consulting firms who are, and we are blessed to have them as partners working with us to help again move the industry by providing really far reaching thought leadership, understanding, you know, the issues and what they mean and what their implications and impacts are going to be. So we have a very, very robust portfolio of Thought leadership beyond just the research, lots of frameworks and methodologies and benchmarks that we do in a sort of what I'll call non or pre competitive way. And then of course we, we love having all these tech service providers and solution providers with FMI as well, because first of all, there's so many of them now. You know, that's proliferated a lot as technology has become more embedded in the industry and our members rely on us help sort through all that, right? Not just, not necessarily give the Good Housekeeping seal of approval on a technology provider, but better understand what the application is, whether it's a newfangled piece of hardware, it's a bright shiny new toy, or it's a new software platform or service platform or whatever that happens to be. And we work very closely with a number of technology companies. We actually created an event within Midwinter we call FMI Tech at Midwinter for those companies. We're now doing pitch competitions, which has been sort of game changing for the folks who get into that and get to the finals and especially the winners. So the technology solution providers have a critical role. They are integral to our success at FMI and working with us to help enable our members, no doubt about it whatsoever.
- [41:57]
Sree Rajagopalan
Mark, you briefly touched upon political change in the world, political change in the government. And my question is a very simple one. With an administration change at this point just a few weeks away, let's say four weeks away at this point, how are y'all at FMI preparing to engage with the constituents you serve? Are there notable remarks you need to make? Is there a white paper, is there a study? Is there something you're putting out there or just, I'm just curious to learn how you engage.
- [42:23]
Mark Baum
The short answers? Yes, all of the above. Let me take you back. Sree, pre election, I disagree that you.
- [42:29]
Sree Rajagopalan
Say all of the above.
- [42:30]
Mark Baum
Pre election, we had like six or eight what if scenario plans going, right? Okay, so now we, at least we got the answer to that question. So we know what we've got in terms of government. With an incoming administration, there was a lot already on our plates. I mean, there were over 50 regs that either coming at us or were in the throes of working with and through to get to compliance. There's going to be legislation produced over the next 12 to 24 months because a new administration really has that two year window before you get to midterms. We know that there's going to be lots of changes over at Health and Human Services, assuming that President Elect Trump's nominees are confirmed. And over at fda, we definitely have been advocating for reform for some time at fda. We look forward to working with his administration to affecting that plan. We have a, we have decades and decades of experience in working with those agencies and so we want to have a seat at the table to explain where we are and what we would like to see happen. And we are, I'll say cautiously optimistic that that will occur in some way, shape or form. We're still trying to work through some of the, you know, the, the onerous regulation coming at us. There's a 20th of January 2026 compliance date for the most far reaching piece of the Food Safety Modernization act. And that's the, you know, the end to end FSMA Rule 204 traceability requirements. Very, very complex, very difficult, very costly even for the largest companies. And the list of those items that are on FDA's radar from an end to end traceability standpoint is extensive. So we still have a lot of work to do there. We have issues with EPA that are coming at us. I mean it's really across the board and it's going to be interesting to see how the President elects healthcare agenda is going to be played out and the role we're going to play in that as well. You know, we doubled down on issues like food is medicine and health and well being and you know, the whole health care system with healthy payment cards and the like and, and longevity issues are all front and center I think. And I think we're going to work really, really hard to be a part of that conversation and see that enacted over the next couple of years with this.
- [44:50]
Sree Rajagopalan
No doubt about it, Mark. I do look forward to what the positive change would be. One thing I worry about is indirect inflation. You know, we have a tendency to discuss direct inflation and pricing, but indirect inflation traceability may just cause indirect inflation due to the cost of implement implementing outcomes. So I'm curious about trends in the industry. How does FMI stay abreast of trends in the industry? How do you do and if so, how do you train your staff? And then personally, Mark, what are one or two trends that are top of mind for you outside of retail media?
- [45:25]
Mark Baum
Yeah, so great, great question, you know, and it's interesting you asked that Sree, because a number of our members actually rely on us to look up and out on their behalf, you know, particularly in the trade. I mean there are obviously exceptions and I'm always in awe of retailers because they are, they're the greatest merchants on the planet. Right. I mean they, they literally, they know what's in every aisle, what's given over to every incap, what they're hedging for, the price of gasoline. I mean they are hands on merchants. But when it comes to looking up and out, they rely on us. How do we do that? Well, we are very fortunate because we have some amazing marquee strategy firms who do that for a living, both with individual clients and for themselves. And we're fortunate in that they provide a lot of that to us. And working together, it allows us to do the kind of conceptual thinking and strategic planning that is so important for industry. So we create a three to five year strategic plan. But we think in terms of, you know, 10 and 20 and 30 years out, what's this going to look like? And then we work back from that. We scour what's available in the public view. You can't be successful in our business, which is kind of like advisory. Unless you're a voracious reader. You've got to be, you have just got to be on that 24 7. And my folks will tell you all the time, I don't know that I'm famous, probably infamous for like sending 247 all hours of the day, white papers, thought leadership from a variety of places. Also you have to look across industries and channels as well. Not everything was invented in the food industry and we're not necessarily bleeding or even leading edge on issues. And coming from consulting, I have the distinct privilege of looking across industries and borrowing best practices from everyone, including financial services and risk to telco and technology, to life science and healthcare and hospitality and travel and applying it to our business. And so that's another thing that we do. We bring those adjacencies, say products based, consumer facing and some of the leading practices from those businesses into our business and expose our members to those as well. With our people, in addition to all of that, we invest in them. I mean they're our greatest assets. So we provide a lot of education and training and professional development across the board.
- [47:46]
Sree Rajagopalan
Awesome, Mark. I wouldn't have expected any less. So, so let's wrap this up with an obvious question which is, you know the mind gears when we think FMI to midwinter in January and Florida, arguably one of your largest programming events. But you are on 24 7, you're programming all year. Talk to us about all year. Who should take advantage of what.
- [48:10]
Mark Baum
Yeah, happy to. Thanks for that sri. Because I think a lot of people, I mean again, FMI is synonymous with midwinter but it's an event. It's our shiniest jewel in the crown in many respects, but it's an event. We have an event calendar that runs from January through December. It's available@fmi.org we run over a dozen in person events.
- [48:32]
Sree Rajagopalan
Can anybody access that calendar just by going to the website?
- [48:35]
Mark Baum
Yeah, yeah, just go, you know, fmi.org and there is probably up on one of the marquees up top. If not, you can just put FMI event calendar into the search bar at the top of the screen and we will. And it'll come up, you'll see all of our events.
- [48:52]
Sree Rajagopalan
We will make sure to put it in the digital liner notes of the podcast.
- [48:55]
Mark Baum
That'd be great. That'd be great. And I don't know if people realize we have events in things like Fresh Foods, which is a major industry event, private brands, non foods, then across functional areas of the business like legal and regulatory compliance, financial management, energy and store development, asset protection, grocery resilience, risk management. All those are events that we do over the course of the year. And we do a big event through our food safety business, SQF Safe Quality Food Institute. We certify facilities and they do a big event as well. The other thing, I'll just mention SRI in addition to the events and we do a lot of online stuff now in today's world we, I don't know how many, you know, podcasts and webinars and on demand education and training features that we do throughout the course of the year. We have a lot of social platforms as well. And then I think I mentioned earlier, we do a lot of research. You know, we do, we have our signature research which is the, the consumer trends piece and the Food Industry Speaks piece which is what's on the mind of executives. And then we have our Power of series that really goes wall to wall across all product categories and functional areas of the business. We do a lot of industry research across business operations and specific functional areas. And then we do a lot of consumer research, as I said earlier, on everything from consumer attitudes to emerging issues and special topics as well. And we will have a large research and insights calendar placed up there as well. Awesome.
- [50:25]
Sree Rajagopalan
So we will make sure to share the link to that calendar as well. So let me remind our audience that you can find all of our content simply by going to a web browser and typing cpguys.com as the URL. And if you or your company has thought leadership to contribute to our community discussion on brands, retailers and service providers in the CPG industry. Drop us an email@contactpguys.com that's again contactpguys.com maybe you can join us on the podcast for a lively discussion. Don't forget to drop us a rating@cpguys.com on the navigation bar up top. That shapes and lets Peter and me understand how we did. You know, do we have the right conversations with the right folks here on the show through our LinkedIn followership? We cannot thank you enough. This show doesn't exist without you. For the clicks, likes, comments, direct messages, meeting us at conferences, coming to our events, parties, dinners. I can't thank you enough. This is not something Peter and I plan for, but it's now our full time energy effort so I can't say thank you enough times. Mark, generous of you to give us time during the holidays. You're always welcome back on the show. Hopefully you will choose CPG Guys as a partner in the future to disseminate a lot of that education and knowledge that you spoke to. Thank you for joining me.
- [51:39]
Mark Baum
Sree. It's always a privilege and a pleasure to be with you. Thanks for the opportunity and the platform. Look forward to seeing you again in the not too distant future. And in the interim, my best wishes to you and your family for Happy holidays. Thanks for everything.
- [51:53]
Sree Rajagopalan
Sri Happy Holidays to you Mark to our audience and that's a wrap of this episode of the CPG Guys.
- [52:10]
Peter Vs. Bond
The content in this podcast episode is provided for general informational purposes only. By listening to our episode, you understand that no information contained in this episode should be construed as advice from CPG Guys, LLC or the individual author, hosts, or guests, nor is it intended to be a substitute for research on any subject matter. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by CPGuys LLC. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. The views expressed by CPTGuys LLC do not represent the views of their employers or the entity they represent. CPT Guys, LLC expressly disclaims any and all liability or responsibility for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential, or other damages arising out of any individual's use of, reference to, or inability to use this podcast or the information we present in this podcast.