Podcast Summary: The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers – Episode 792 Title: Fair Use, Copyright, And Licensing. AI And The Author Business With Alicia Wright
Release Date: January 27, 2025
Host: Joanna Penn
Guest: Alicia Wright, Intellectual Property Lawyer and Author

Introduction and Episode Overview

In Episode 792 of The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers, host Joanna Penn engages in an insightful conversation with Alicia Wright, an intellectual property lawyer and author with a unique blend of expertise in computer science, law, and creative writing. The episode delves deep into the intersection of artificial intelligence (AI) and the author business, exploring topics such as fair use, copyright, licensing, and the evolving role of AI as a collaborator in the creative process.

Corrections and Updates

Joanna begins the episode by addressing a correction from the previous week’s interview with Kevin J. Anderson. She clarifies the name of the AI transcription tool used by Kevin, updating it from "Mac write" to MacWhisper (00:00). Additionally, Joanna highlights BookBub's recent article on nine bold predictions for 2025, emphasizing the growing influence of AI in the publishing industry.

BookBub’s 2025 Predictions

BookBub's predictions outline significant trends shaping the future of writing and publishing:

1. Innovative Consumption of Stories: Continued growth in digital formats, including audiobooks, with AI-driven personalization enhancing reader experiences. (00:54)

2. Legal Frameworks for Generative AI: Development of regulations and licensing agreements to manage the widespread adoption of generative AI. (01:15)

3. AI-Enabled Translation and Narration: Expansion of books into new languages and formats through AI, making audiobooks more accessible. Michelle Cobb of the Audio Publishers Association notes, “Human narration is still at the forefront, but AI tools have streamlined production” (02:10).

4. Democratizing Publishing Tools: AI removes barriers to publishing, enabling diverse voices to publish efficiently. Elizabeth Ann West highlights, “AI is democratizing creation, allowing those with constraints to write at market speeds” (03:20).

5. AI Agents Managing Author Businesses: Enhancements in efficiency where AI agents handle publishing and marketing tasks, enabling single-author businesses to thrive. Joanna herself is quoted saying, “AI agents will handle many publishing and marketing tasks, allowing authors to focus on creativity” (05:00).

6. Hybrid Publishing and Business Models: New publishing models emerge, supporting community building and fan-driven promotions while combating censorship and book banning.

Joanna encourages listeners to explore the comprehensive insights on BookBub’s blog, linking the resource in the show notes.

Host’s Personal Updates and AI Adoption

Joanna shares her personal endeavors, including writing her latest thriller, Death Valley, and her preparations for adapting Day of the Vikings for the Berlinale Film Festival. She discusses her excitement about AI agents like OpenAI’s Operator, which can perform tasks autonomously, and mentions Bertelsmann’s strategic collaboration with OpenAI to integrate AI across their vast media portfolio. Joanna remarks, “We're working at the intersection of AI and media, supporting creative professionals through responsible AI use” (06:30).

Interview with Alicia Wright

Alicia’s Background and Journey into AI and Writing

Alicia Wright introduces herself as an intellectual property lawyer and author who has been writing fiction for approximately 17 years. She explains her transition from a strong background in math and computer science to creative writing during her time in law school. Alicia emphasizes her dual role in managing a patent portfolio and crafting science fiction and mystery novels under the name Alicia Ellis. (15:02 – 17:54)

Using AI in Writing and Business Processes

Alicia discusses her approach to integrating AI into her writing process:

• Brainstorming and Planning: Uses AI as a “junior partner” to generate ideas, outlines, character sketches, and setting descriptions. (18:10)

  “AI is a great partner for brainstorming and plotting when we get into the writing.” – Alicia Wright (19:20)

• Writing and Editing: Prefers dictation over direct AI writing, using ChatGPT to clean up transcription errors and perform developmental editing.

  “I will spend more time editing AI output than I would have just writing it myself.” – Alicia Wright (19:30)

Addressing Common Objections to AI Use in Writing

1. AI as Intellectual Theft and Fair Use

Alicia tackles the concern that AI companies are stealing authors' work:

“I feel like AI will be shown at a later date that AI is not theft.” – Alicia Wright (24:40)

She explains that AI training using copyrighted works likely falls under fair use due to its transformative nature. Alicia believes that until court cases are resolved, the use of AI in training is not considered illegal appropriation. She highlights the four factors of fair use, emphasizing transformation and the creation of new, original works.

2. AI and Plagiarism Concerns

Alicia dispels the notion that AI is merely a plagiarism machine:

“Generative AI models are statistical models determining what token comes next, not lifting phrases from existing works.” – Alicia Wright (25:30)

She elucidates that AI generates content based on statistical patterns rather than direct copying, likening it to how humans draw from existing knowledge and phrases.

3. Quality of AI-Generated Writing

Discussing the quality of AI output, Alicia asserts that effective prompts are crucial:

“The more specific you are in your prompt, the more you learn how to talk to the AI in a way that it interprets the way you want it to.” – Alicia Wright (28:03)

She emphasizes that well-crafted prompts can produce writing closer to an author’s unique voice, enhancing the collaborative potential of AI.

Licensing Author IP for AI Training

Alicia advises authors to proactively license their work for AI training, considering the evolving legal landscape:

“If someone's offering you money for it now, I would say get into those negotiations and think about getting that locked down.” – Alicia Wright (33:08)

Key considerations for licensing contracts include:

• Scope of Use: Understanding how the AI will utilize the work.
• Derivative Works: Specifying limitations to prevent unauthorized derivative creations.
• Sub-licensing: Controlling or monetizing further use of the licensed work.
• Percentage Limits: Restricting the amount of original work that can appear in AI outputs.

Synthetic Data and Future AI Trends

Alicia expresses enthusiasm for synthetic data, which can train AI models without relying on real, copyrighted works. She anticipates significant advancements and encourages the writing community to embrace AI developments to enhance creativity and accessibility.

Generative Search and Author Discoverability

Joanna and Alicia discuss the importance of AI-powered search tools in promoting authors:

“If we're not there, they just won't be found.” – Alicia Wright (38:46)

Alicia stresses the need for AI models to recognize and recommend authors’ works to ensure visibility in an increasingly AI-driven discovery landscape.

AI Agents in Publishing

Alicia foresees AI agents revolutionizing aspects of the author business, particularly in marketing and social media management:

“Affordability is a huge issue. People are going to use these things anyway because it gets done as opposed to not getting done.” – Alicia Wright (49:21)

She acknowledges potential resistance within the writing industry but believes the efficiency and cost-effectiveness of AI agents will drive their adoption.

Copyright Implications in the US and UK

Alicia outlines the differences in copyright laws between the US and the UK concerning AI-generated works:

“Expression that is generated by a machine is not copyrightable; however, your authorship is copyrightable when combined with AI outputs.” – Alicia Wright (42:19)

In the US, only the human-authored portions are protected, whereas the UK offers stronger protections when authors direct AI creation. Alicia anticipates further legal clarifications as AI technology evolves.

Future of Creativity with AI

Alicia envisions a future where AI enhances human creativity, allowing authors to undertake more complex and ambitious projects with AI assistance. She compares the current AI revolution to the early days of the internet, predicting transformative changes across the creative industries.

Closing Remarks and Upcoming Episodes

Joanna wraps up the episode by thanking Alicia for her expert insights and encouraging listeners to engage with the content through comments and social media. She previews the next episode, featuring Douglas Vigliotti discussing Aristotle for novelists and strategies for selling more books. Joanna also promotes her Patreon community, highlighting exclusive content and upcoming live office hours.

“Tomorrow’s AI advancements will continue to shape how we create and publish, and I’ll keep sharing updates as they unfold.” – Joanna Penn (54:02)

Listeners are invited to explore additional resources, including backlist episodes and a free Author Blueprint, available on Joanna’s website.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Joanna Penn (00:54):
  “Innovative new ways of consuming stories will emerge while digital formats will continue to grow in popularity.”

• Michelle Cobb (02:10):
  “Human narration is still at the forefront of what audio publishers do, though the integration of AI has made audiobook production easier.”

• Elizabeth Ann West (03:20):
  “AI is democratizing creation, allowing those with constraints to write at market speeds.”

• Joanna Penn (05:00):
  “AI agents will handle many publishing and marketing tasks, allowing authors to focus on creativity.”

• Alicia Wright (19:20):
  “AI is a great partner for brainstorming and plotting when we get into the writing.”

• Alicia Wright (24:40):
  “I feel like AI will be shown at a later date that AI is not theft.”

• Alicia Wright (25:30):
  “Generative AI models are statistical models determining what token comes next, not lifting phrases from existing works.”

• Alicia Wright (28:03):
  “The more specific you are in your prompt, the more you learn how to talk to the AI in a way that it interprets the way you want it to.”

• Alicia Wright (33:08):
  “If someone's offering you money for it now, I would say get into those negotiations and think about getting that locked down.”

• Alicia Wright (38:46):
  “If we're not there, they just won't be found.”

• Alicia Wright (49:21):
  “Affordability is a huge issue. People are going to use these things anyway because it gets done as opposed to not getting done.”

• Alicia Wright (42:19):
  “Expression that is generated by a machine is not copyrightable; however, your authorship is copyrightable when combined with AI outputs.”

Conclusion

Episode 792 offers a comprehensive exploration of AI's role in the author business, blending legal expertise with practical writing strategies. Joanna Penn and Alicia Wright provide valuable perspectives on leveraging AI responsibly, navigating copyright complexities, and embracing technological advancements to enhance creativity and productivity in the writing industry. Listeners gain actionable insights on integrating AI tools, safeguarding their intellectual property, and preparing for the future landscape shaped by AI innovations.

For further details, visit thecreativepenn.com and explore the episode's show notes for additional resources and links.