The Creative Penn Podcast for Writers: Episode Summary
Title: Language, Line Breaks, and Punctuation: Poetry with Abi Pollakoff
Host: Joanna Penn
Guest: Abi Pollakoff, Award-Winning Poet, Editor, and Book Artist
Release Date: May 12, 2025
Overview
In Episode 808 of The Creative Penn Podcast, Joanna Penn delves into the intricate relationship between poetry and prose with award-winning poet and editor, Abi Pollakoff. The episode, titled "Language, Line Breaks, and Punctuation: Poetry with Abi Pollakoff," explores how prose writers can glean valuable lessons from poets. The conversation spans topics such as punctuation, page layout, line breaks, creative freedom, performance poetry, and the commercial landscape for poets.
Podcast Highlights
Before the main interview, Joanna shares insights from various segments relevant to writers:
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Ink in Your Veins Podcast: Joanna discusses Rachel Heron's conversation with Nicole Grave Lipson on redefining success as a writer, emphasizing personal definitions over societal expectations. (Timestamp: [07:30])
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How I Write Podcast: An interview with celebrated horror author Dean Koontz, where he discusses his transition to a discovery writer and the importance of following one's unique path in writing. Notably, Koontz remarks, "If you have no self-doubt, you might not have any self-judgment," highlighting the role of self-doubt in creative processes. (Timestamp: [09:30])
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Self Publishing Advice Blog: An article featuring Damon Courtney from Book Funnel on the "Thousand True Fans" model, advocating for direct selling strategies to build sustainable writer careers outside major platforms.
Interview with Abi Pollakoff
1. Abi's Journey into Poetry
Abi Pollakoff shares her introduction to poetry, rooted in a love for reading from childhood and formal education. Her transformative experience at Tulane University, immersed in French avant-garde movements and workshops led by poet Andy Stallings, fostered her relationship with poetic language and self-expression.
“[...] in my last year I took a series of classes that coalesced around ..., giving me permission to play and explore, transforming where I am today.”
— Abi Pollakoff [18:00]
2. Balancing Academic and Fun in Poetry
Abi discusses the tension between academic standards and the playful, diverse nature of modern poetry. She emphasizes that a good poem transcends rigid definitions, resonating emotionally regardless of form.
“A good poem is one that makes you feel something full stop in your body.”
— Abi Pollakoff [20:36]
3. Editing Poetry: Objective Assessment Over Personal Taste
Abi elaborates on her editorial approach, focusing on whether a poem achieves its intended goals rather than personal preferences. She encourages editors to assess the poet's objectives and the reader's experience.
“I'm thinking about what the poem is trying to do and whether it's successful.”
— Abi Pollakoff [22:30]
4. Poetry Techniques for Prose Writers
Abi highlights the significance of line breaks and punctuation from poetry that can enhance prose. She draws parallels between short lines in poetry and rapid sentence breaks in prose, illustrating how these techniques can control pacing and reader engagement.
“Think about how the line break activates thought and changes what your reader is experiencing.”
— Abi Pollakoff [25:06]
5. The Magic of Punctuation and Line Breaks
Abi and Joanna delve deep into punctuation's role in shaping narrative texture. Abi passionately discusses the em dash, defending its usage against misconceptions that it signals AI-written text.
“...using specific punctuation is going to give the reader a different experience.”
— Abi Pollakoff [29:42]
6. Visual Layout in Poetry
Abi emphasizes the importance of how words are arranged on a page, noting that visual elements like spacing and placement can convey pauses, silence, and thematic depth.
“The space on the page gives the reader breath and pause.”
— Abi Pollakoff [32:13]
7. Performance and Slam Poetry
Abi discusses the vibrant world of slam poetry, its distinct craft, and the challenges of translating spoken word to written form. She offers tips for poets nervous about public readings, such as adopting the "power pose" to boost confidence.
“Take a deep breath, sink into the poem, and let yourself be vulnerable.”
— Abi Pollakoff [40:12]
8. Compiling a Poetry Collection
Abi shares her process of curating a poetry collection, which began organically through writing groups. She utilized tools like NotebookLM to identify recurring themes and meticulously selected poems that resonated with her overarching narrative.
“I jigsaw puzzled my way into my book's title... what does this mean to the body of the book itself.”
— Abi Pollakoff [47:10]
9. The Commercial Reality for Poets
Abi candidly addresses the financial challenges poets face, acknowledging that while some like Rupi Kaur achieve significant commercial success, most poets struggle financially. She advises diversifying income streams, such as selling directly through platforms like Shopify or leveraging social media.
“The best way to encourage presses to keep publishing... is to be buying books.”
— Abi Pollakoff [55:39]
10. Marketing Poetry
Abi provides practical strategies for poets to market their work, emphasizing the importance of building an online presence through websites and social media. She advocates for authentic engagement, such as attending local readings and connecting with writing communities.
“Choose one platform where you feel comfortable and start being visible.”
— Abi Pollakoff [56:14]
Conclusion
Joanna wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to connect with Abi Pollakoff through her website and social media. She previews the next episode featuring April Rinny discussing her book Flux and embracing change during turbulent times.
“I hope you enjoyed the interview with Abi. Let me know what you think of the episode...”
— Joanna Penn [62:43]
Where to Find Abi Pollakoff and Her Work
- Book: Night Before the Body, releasing April 22nd
- Website: abbypolikoff.com
- Instagram: @polakoff
- Additional Poems: Available on her website
This episode serves as a comprehensive exploration of the symbiotic relationship between poetry and prose, offering invaluable insights for writers seeking to enhance their craft through poetic techniques. Abi Pollakoff's expertise provides a nuanced perspective on both the artistic and commercial facets of poetry, making this episode a treasure trove for aspiring and established writers alike.