The Creative Penn Podcast for Writers
Host: Joanna Penn
Episode: Review Of My 2025 Creative And Business Goals With Joanna Penn
Date: December 29, 2025

Episode Overview

In this reflective solo episode, Joanna Penn looks back on 2025, reviewing her creative and business goals, what she achieved (both planned and unplanned), where she fell short, and personal insights from her 50th year. She discusses developments in indie publishing, particularly the rise of direct sales, impacts of AI, community trends, her personal creative projects and health, and her evolving philosophy as an author entrepreneur.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Indie Publishing Trends in 2025

Timestamps: [04:00]–[14:30]

• Direct Sales Go Mainstream: 2025 saw direct sales discussed widely among indie authors, with 30% currently selling direct and another 30% planning to start. Among authors earning $10k+/month, half sell direct.

  “Selling direct online at least is an advanced strategy, which is reflected in those numbers… anyone making five figures a month usually has a mature author business and a lot of books.” — Joanna Penn [05:30]

• Physical Products Evolve: Bespoke editions via Book Vault (sprayed edges, foiling, ribbons, boxed sets) allow indies to outshine many traditionally published books in terms of aesthetic quality.

• Kickstarter and Crowdfunding: Increasingly important, with Kickstarter’s biggest year ever. New platform tools (Pledge Manager, prelaunch updates, pledge-over-time, After Dark for NSFW work) empower authors to manage campaigns and fulfill backer expectations more effectively.

  “Even in moments of instability and exhaust there is a ravenous appetite for originality, independence and community driven creation.” — Kickstarter Year in Review, as read by Joanna Penn [12:30]

• TikTok US Sale Finalized: Major regulatory changes affecting US-based TikTok creators; authors reminded to safeguard their connection to readers (e.g., mailing lists) against platform volatility.

2. Podcast Referrals and Community Conversations

Timestamps: [14:30]–[22:00]

• Podcast Recommendations:

  • Wish I’d Known Then (Sarah & Jamie), Nicholas Harvey & Douglas Pratt (Two Authors Podcast): discussed Amazon KU heavy model, challenges with platform algorithms, move toward direct sales.
  • Notable differences between aggressive Amazon/Ad-based and wide/direct-selling approaches among authors.

• Insights from Peers:

  • Doug: AI translation as a game-changer; maintenance of systems is crucial as “everything degrades—that is entropy.”
  • Nick: “It’s becoming increasingly difficult to make books stay sticky in the charts… the market is so flooded now.” [17:50]
  • Jamie: Importance of business and website maintenance, observed after neglect leading to broken automations/link rot.

• Author Business Models Diverge: Joanna aligns more with “quiet, non-hype marketing” and wide/direct models, less attention to Amazon rankings.

3. AI Advances & Copyright

Timestamps: [22:00]–[32:20]

• Copyright Developments:

  • Anthropic settlement in US — “Training on copyright data was fair use, but… had to pay for using pirated books.”
  • Many licensing deals between AI companies and content holding companies (Disney & OpenAI, etc.), with more expected in 2026.

• AI-Narrated Audiobooks Mainstream:

  • Spotify accepts 11 Labs narrations; Audible launches their own virtual voice.
  • Joanna now uses a “JF Penn voice clone” for most fiction.

• AI Tools for Authors:

  • Joanna uses ChatGPT 5.2, Thinking Claude 4.5 Opus, Gemini 3 Pro, NotebookLM; emphasizes “geeking out” on research, large context windows, and deep developmental exchanges.

  “My prompts are often paragraphs long. Like, the word ‘prompt’ is just not even appropriate anymore. … It’s very much a back and forth developmental process.” — Joanna Penn [30:20]

• Predictions on Content Explosion and Discoverability (as forecast in 2019/2020):

  • Voice synth adoption, AI-written nonfiction/news, algorithmic discoverability—all realized or well underway.

4. Personal Creative Achievements

Timestamps: [32:20]–[45:10]

J.F. Penn (Fiction):

• Death Valley ([37:10]): Thriller inspired by time in Death Valley and a lifetime fascination with deserts. Kickstarter raised £10,794; features a beautiful foiled hardback, AI-generated assets, and AI-narrated audiobook in Joanna’s cloned voice.
• Blood Vintage ([39:00]): Folk horror; after a year of traditional submission, Joanna self-published wide.
• Catacomb (Audiobook): First time using male AI voice to match protagonist; released in all formats.
• Short Story Collection: The Buried and the Drowned ([41:30]): Goal to see her work in print realized—a special edition for her 50th birthday. Features two new stories tied to significant travels and experiences.

Joanna Penn (Non-fiction & Business for Authors):

• How to Write Nonfiction (2nd Ed.): Launched wide; special hardback and workbook now available.

• Successful Self-Publishing (4th Ed.) ([44:10]): Written to address the shift toward direct sales, clarify options, and avoid bias tied to author-service companies. Used ChatGPT to help generate a comprehensive update outline.

• Audiobooks on YouTube: All fiction and nonfiction audiobooks (including short stories) are now on monetized channels, both for discoverability and as a small but meaningful stream of income.

5. Joanna’s Business Model and Community

Timestamps: [49:40]–[55:10]

• Patreon: Grown to nearly 1,400 community members; Joanna values sharing unfiltered thoughts behind “a tiny paywall… makes a big difference in keeping out the haters.” [52:20]

• Multiple Income Streams: Main sources beyond books include the podcast (sponsorships), Patreon, webinars, affiliate programs; emphasizes that no individual stream is huge, but together they make a stable business.

6. Unexpected & Personal Growth: The Masters Degree

Timestamps: [55:10]–[60:30]

• Master’s Degree in Death, Religion, and Culture (University of Winchester):
  • Inspired by visiting Gothic cathedrals and feeling burnt-out by AI drama in the author community.
  • Re-immersed in academic writing, research, and a circle of likeminded peers fascinated by death and macabre topics.

  “A midlife random degree is a good thing.” — Joanna Penn [59:10]

7. Book Marketing – Hits and Misses

Timestamps: [60:30]–[69:30]

• Plans to run monthly book marketing campaigns and re-organize Shopify stores were not fully realized—tasks now rolled forward to 2026.
• Reinvigorating Books and Travel podcast started but then paused due to master’s workload.
• Heavy reliance on AI for research and creative ideation, less so for marketing automation (“My gold standard… would be to upload the finished book and say, here's a budget, go market this. … Maybe 2026.” — [66:30]).
• Running minimal paid ads: auto-campaigns on Amazon, Written Word Media, BookBub, and mainly marketing through content, podcast, and newsletters (combined 60,000 subscribers, regularly culled for engagement).

8. Reflections on Turning 50: Life, Health, & Travel

Timestamps: [69:30]–[76:30]

• Turning 50 prompted introspection and a willingness to “pass by that which you do not love.” Quote repeated:

  “Pilgrim, pass by that which you do not love.” — Anonymous, relayed by Joanna Penn [72:10]

• Increasingly values quiet, deep work, and quality experiences over social media, hype, and unnecessary networking.

• Maintains powerlifting (won her age/weight category), prioritizes health, and marks travel milestones (Iceland, Berlin, Lower Antelope Canyon).

• Continues working on her ongoing Gothic Cathedral book—embraces projects that unfold over years.

9. Philosophy for the Future

Timestamps: [76:30]–End

• Encourages listeners to pursue what excites and nourishes them and to let go of unnecessary drama and pressure.
• Stresses creating for the sake of creation and measuring life by one’s creative output.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Selling direct online at least is an advanced strategy… anyone making five figures a month usually has a mature author business and a lot of books.” — Joanna Penn [05:30]
• “Everything degrades—that is entropy. There is no passive income, there is no set and forget.” — Joanna Penn [19:30]
• “I prefer the AI assisted artisan author approach and focus on the artisan there, which is not about speed at all.” — Joanna Penn [18:30]
• “Pilgrim, pass by that which you do not love.” — Anonymous, relayed by Joanna Penn [72:10]
• “A midlife random degree is a good thing.” — Joanna Penn [59:10]
• “I want to upload the book and say, here’s a budget, go market this. That’s literally what I want to do.” — Joanna Penn [66:30]
• “Measure your life by what you create.” — Joanna Penn [75:20]

Useful Timestamps for Major Segments

• [04:00] Direct Sales and Industry Trends
• [12:30] Kickstarter Year in Review & Community Philosophy
• [14:30] Podcast recommendations (Wish I’d Known Then; Two Authors Podcast)
• [22:00] AI and Copyright Developments
• [30:20] Joanna’s AI Tools and Usage
• [37:10] Death Valley Kickstarter and AI-Enabled Creation
• [44:10] Self-Publishing 4th Edition: Motivations & Process
• [49:40] Podcast/Patreon Community & Multiple Income
• [55:10] Joanna’s MA in Death, Religion & Culture—Why and What She’s Gained
• [60:30] Book Marketing: Successes and Shortfalls
• [69:30] Turning 50 Reflections
• [75:20] Joanna’s Creative Philosophy and Takeaways

Summary Table of Joanna's 2025 Highlights

| Domain | Achievements / Notes | |----------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Direct Sales & Physical | Kickstarters, special editions, Book Vault, hardbacks | | AI & Tech | AI narration, translation, robust use of latest AI tools | | Community & Business | Grew Patreon, enhanced income streams, supportive community | | Publications | Death Valley, Blood Vintage, Catacomb audiobook, Buried & Drowned | | Non-fiction Releases | How to Write Nonfiction (2nd), Successful Self-Publishing (4th) | | Marketing & Platforms | YouTube audiobooks, minimal ads, focus on organic/ evergreen content | | Personal Development | Began Masters, increased health/fitness, selective social media usage | | Travel & Research | Iceland, Berlin, Gothic cathedrals, Antelope Canyon | | Looking Forward | Ongoing projects and more intentional, human-centered creativity |

Tone and Final Reflections

Joanna delivers the episode with warmth, candor, and encouragement—acknowledging challenges but emphasizing the joy found in creative autonomy and intentional living. She is open about struggles and “failures,” but frames them as natural parts of the creative process.

Listeners are encouraged to reflect, focus on what is meaningful, avoid unnecessary stress and drama, and savor the journey as much as the output.

“I hope you can pass by that which you do not love in this coming year. … Measure your life by what you create.” — Joanna Penn [75:28]

For more details and full show notes, visit thecreativepenn.com/podcast