Marissa Meyer (21:39)

Marissa Meyer is the New York Times best selling author of fantasy, romance and graphic novels, including the Lunar Chronicles.

Joanna Penn (21:47)

The Happy Writer.

Marissa Meyer (21:48)

Get more ideas, write more words, and find more joy. From first draft to publication and beyond is her latest book for authors. So welcome to the show. Marissa.

Marissa Meyer (21:59)

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Marissa Meyer (22:01)

It's great to have you on.

Joanna Penn (22:02)

So first up, tell us a bit.

Marissa Meyer (22:04)

More about you and how you got into writing and publishing.

Marissa Meyer (22:08)

Oh, goodness. I always wanted to be a writer. I am one of those. I was a huge reader growing up, loved stories, had a big imagination. And so really from the time that I was a little kid, I started making up stories and telling them to my parents, asking them to write them down into little books for me. And then as I got older, I of course started writing them myself. But at some point I realized that this is a job, this is something that people actually can get paid for. Knew that you could actually get paid to come up with stories and get your name printed on a book. And I think I realized really early on that that was for me and that's what I wanted to do with my life. So I kept writing. As a teenager, I got really into fanfiction and credit that a lot with learning how to tell a complete story, beginning, middle, end. I got my bachelor's degree in creative writing and a master's degree in publishing because I thought writing might be a difficult career to break into. I have a backup plan and thought, well, if this writing thing doesn't pan out, maybe I can be an editor. Maybe I can be a publicist or an agent or something. But the deeper I got into learning about publishing, the more it really just cemented how passionate I was about writing and how much I just really wanted to be the writer in this publishing equation. So eventually wrote him, wrote many multiple manuscripts that went nowhere, but eventually got the idea for a Cinderella retelling about a cyborg, a futuristic retelling, and that became my debut novel, Cinder.

Joanna Penn (23:56)

Wow.

Marissa Meyer (23:57)

Okay.

Joanna Penn (23:57)

Really Interesting.

Marissa Meyer (23:58)

You did publishing as a degree as well as writing. But so did you have a job before you became a full time author? Like did you work in the publishing industry or did you just go straight from uni into full time writer?

Marissa Meyer (24:12)

No, I did. I went from university. I got a job as an editor at a very small publishing house in Seattle. That publisher focused mostly on fine art books. So those beautiful coffee table books that you get at museum exhibits and art galleries, you know, those books, books. So it had virtually nothing to do with my ultimate career of being a fiction writer, but it taught me a lot about just the behind the scenes, what goes into creating a book, the actual production of it, the marketing of it, all of these various aspects. So I did that for five years and then I spent about a year as a freelance typesetter and proofreader at which point my first, first novel sold and I got to become a full time writer.

Marissa Meyer (25:01)

That's very cool. I love that you did typesetting and stuff like that. And we'll come back to the business side, but let's get into the book. So you use the words happy and.

Joanna Penn (25:09)

Joy in the book title, but I.

Marissa Meyer (25:12)

Feel like many writers think suffering and pain is more of a hallmark of the creative process. So if writers are not feeling the joy and the happy right now, what are some tips for getting back to.

Marissa Meyer (25:24)

Yeah, no, I thank you so much for asking this question. It is so funny to me that we do have this, this, this stereotype of the writer and you must be struggling in order to create art and you must be suffering some way. And if it's not painful, then, then how can you possibly call it quality? And I, this, this stereotype really bugs me and I'm really trying to dismantle it with this book. But that said, we're also not shying away from the fact that writing, it's not just fun and play all the time. There are struggles, there are challenges. No matter where you are on your journey, whether you're suffering from writer's block or burnout, whether you're in the query trenches and you're facing rejection or criticism. I mean, there's a million things, of course, that can be roadblocks in our path to being happier writers, but that is largely what this book is about and trying to refocus our attention. Not on all the things that can go wrong, not on all of the struggles that we face, but looking at the things that we really do love and enjoy about the craft of writing, the hobby, the career, because we get into it because we do have a passion. It's not the sort of job or hobby that most of us take on just for the heck of it. I mean, you start writing because you love to write. And so I really encourage writers to find what it is that appeals to them about this. Why do you love the process of taking a messy, complicated plot and fitting it together like a big jigsaw puzzle and that satisfying you feeling when everything comes together? Or do you love that you have the freedom to go to a cafe with your laptop and sip lattes all day and stare out at the people and let the world inspire you? Or maybe you love the research process and learning about things that you are so curious and interested in and just want to do deep dives into it. There's a lot of things that we can find joy and satisfaction in. So that's going to be different for every writer. And that's going to be different based on where you are both in the process of writing a particular book, but also where you are in your overall career. But I always encourage writers to go back to that. What can I find joy in today?

Marissa Meyer (27:55)

Yeah, I love the research and I also love saying, with a finished book, I made this. I always enjoy holding that book in my hand. And you coming from this fine art books thing you did early on, I guess you must love the really beautiful special editions and all that.

Marissa Meyer (28:11)

Well, oh, I love it. And the smell. I love the smell of a new book. And you don't always get it when, you know, a lot of books these days just come in like a cardboard box. But some of these special editions will come wrapped in plastic and so they still maintain that. The smell of the ink and the binding glue and, oh, I just nerd out over it.

Marissa Meyer (28:35)

Well, and that is important too, isn't it?

Joanna Penn (28:37)

Because we are making.

Marissa Meyer (28:38)

I feel like we've come round to that. Like, there was a lot of focus on digital for a while, especially for independent authors, but now it's really come round to beautiful physical products. And that, to me is a very exciting part of the process is. Is kind of finishing the whole thing with something beautiful. And that satisfaction is really part of it.

Marissa Meyer (29:00)

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I am really big on celebrations. I think it's so important to take a moment and say, I made this thing, I accomplished this. I had a goal, I had a dream, and I kept moving. And it took months or years or decades, but I did it. And that is such a huge part of the process. And it's really easy, especially, like for me I'm about 20 books now into my career, and it can be easy to be like, oh, just another one. Set it on the shelf and keep on working on the next deadline. But I really have tried to be very conscientious about, no, let's pause, let's pop some champagne, let's take a night off. Let's get a massage. Like, what is it that's going to make me feel like, yep, I've done it again. And I'm really proud of this moment.

Marissa Meyer (29:53)

That's great. Well, you do have a section on the writing process in the book, and of course, every author is different. But if people haven't got to that 20 books place, tell us how you get that first draft done and I guess, any tips for actually finishing, which I know some people have an issue with.

Marissa Meyer (30:12)

Yeah, no, Finishing is hard, and I think it's important for people to know that everyone struggles with finishing. We talk a lot about the siren song of the next project because no matter, at some point in every book, you're going to reach that point and you're in the murky middle. It feels endless. You're confused about the plot, you're frustrated that things aren't going well, and suddenly you get a sparkly new idea for the next thing. And it's so easy to think that one's gonna be really easy and really fun, and it's not gonna have any of these other problems that I'm dealing with right now. And it's very tempting to switch over and to follow that path of least resistance. But I think it's important to know that that fantasy of the next one being so easy, probably not reality, probably you will get to relatively the same point in the process and once again be hit with, ugh, this is hard. It's work. What else can I do? For me, one of the tips that I started using fairly early in my career is when I am at the start of a project and I'm really excited and I've got lots of ideas and you can feel all the potential for it. And there's a reason that you're choosing to write this thing out of all your other ideas. Why am I focusing my time on this one? And I will write down either a list or I will write a little letter to myself detailing all of the things about this project that I cannot wait for. Maybe it's the romance that I'm really excited to write, or there's I just love the protagonist, or there's a really big twist in the plot that I Can't wait to see how readers are going to react to whatever it is. I will write down everything that I really love about this idea. And then when I'm a third of the way or halfway through the book and suddenly hating it and feeling like this is the worst thing I've ever written, and I can't believe that I chose this. What was I thinking? I'll go back and I'll read that list, and I will remind myself why I chose this one in the beginning and what do I love about it? What do I still love about it? And then I will take those ideas and I will try to incorporate them into the next scene or chapter or couple of chapters that I'm going to write. All right. I love the romance. Well, let's have a romantic scene. I think the villain is so cool. Well, let's have a scene where we really get to see how cool the villain is. You know, whatever it is, focus on that. And that will help, hopefully help you get over that. That bad period.

Marissa Meyer (32:54)

And so do you write out of order? If you get to that point, you're like, I'm just gonna write the climax scene, because I know that will be fun. Or do you write linearly?

Marissa Meyer (33:03)

It really depends on the project. I have done both, and I think both processes work. Some books are more difficult than others. The books that I'm struggling with more than I will tend to jump around and go ahead to write a scene that I'm really excited about, but not always. Some books have very complicated plots that are very interwoven. And in those cases, it can be less of a mental gymnastics challenge if you do write it linearly. So it really depends, I think, for me, momentum and forward progress and consistency. Whatever you need to do to keep moving forward and keep. Keep on top of your goals, whether it's a word count goal or a chapter goal or whatever it is, anything you can do any day to keep moving forward is going to be helpful.

Marissa Meyer (33:57)

And sometimes that moving forward might not be getting new words down. Right. Because you also have a section about filling the creative well. And sometimes, especially when you've written as many books as we both have, it can be like, okay, do you know what? I need some more input. So what are some ways that you fill your creative well?

Marissa Meyer (34:16)

Yeah, no, absolutely. And that's such an important thing to note, because like you say, sometimes getting words down is not the answer, especially if you're facing some amount of creative burnout or if you're just, like, really stuck in a plot and feel like things just aren't working or maybe you've taken a wrong turn somewhere and you're not really sure how to fix it. Sometimes the best thing you can do is take a step back and do it intentionally. I think there's a distinction between saying I have writer's block and I can't possibly write anything today versus I am choosing not to write today because I recognize that I need a moment, I need some space to refill the well and kind of tap into that creative spark again. So for me, when I decide I'm going to take a day off, I mean there's a myriad of things that I might might choose to do with that time. I think getting outside, going for walks or if you can go to a park or go on a hike somewhere, if you can go swimming, like anything like that tends to for me really generate some new ideas. Spending time with my family is always good. A lot of times I will use those days off to tackle other projects. Things that have kind of been looming in the background. Maybe there's taking up more mental space than they should be. That could be things like getting your car washed or that could be like reorganizing your pantry. Just things that have been really bugging you lately. Maybe it's time to take a day and clear some of those things out because that will help clear your mental clutter as well. Or you might take a day and be like I'm gonna do some really fun research about this project or I'm gonna take a day and spend some time brainstorming or re outlining my plot. So you can also take a more hands on approach to writing. There's really no right or wrong here, but whatever you feel like you need, give it a shot and see if it helps break something loose.

Marissa Meyer (36:21)

Well, so you mentioned fun research there. What does that look like for you?

Marissa Meyer (36:27)

I. All of it. I really enjoy research. I love reading. I love doing deep dives. You know, going on Wikipedia and clicking the little further reading links at the bottom and seeing what sort of rabbit holes you go down. But I also, if I can find a way to do a hands on or more of an experiential research, that's the best. Of course we all fantasize about being able to travel. If you can go to the place where your setting is inspired by that is worth gold. Not always an option of course, for different reasons, but if you can get out and see the world and these really great sensory details is so helpful. But it could be talking to an expert on something about your story, something about your protagonist or your plot. Because they're gonna have just the best insights and they're gonna clue you into things that you never would have even known to look up to. Research. Yeah, I mean, I. I've crawled under cars to see how they work. Cause I don't know anything about cars. But I had a mechanic character, so. Okay, I better learn something about cars. I love cooking. If there's a dish that my character has to cook or bake or is served, I'll find a recipe and give it a try myself. Just little things like that to just kind of give you that hands on experience. I think it adds a lot to the authenticity as you're writing and also.

Marissa Meyer (37:58)

Makes it more of a fun process. And it's more fun.

Marissa Meyer (38:01)

Why not? We're all about trying to make it more fun.

Marissa Meyer (38:04)

Yeah, exactly. Well then coming to writing series because it feels like obviously we need tropes in the books. If we're writing different books in a series, we need to make sure the characters are consistent and all that. So how do you keep coming up with new ideas for series? I feel like a lot of people now are sort of okay, is it the same thing? The same thing. Like what stays the same in a series book and what changes and how do you get ideas for that?

Marissa Meyer (38:33)

Yeah, that's a good question. And it's gonna depend on if you're series follows one main protagonist versus if it's more like a loosely connected series with maybe different protagonists or different love interests in each book. Generally, I think it's more common that you've got this, the solo protagonist who has a complete character arc. And so when I'm thinking of the entire series as a whole and trying to step back and see kind of a big picture, I will give a lot of thought to the protagonist's arc. Where do they start? Page one, book one. And where am I hoping they're gonna end up? And within that, depending on how many books you have in your series, there's probably gonna be some reversals. There might be book one, your protagonist might end on a really high note. Book two, it might be the opposite. They may be way down at the bottom now something terrible has happened that they have to claw their way out and. Or they learn something about themselves in book one. But then book two, you flip it on that. Flip it on its head and say they thought this thing, but surprise. Actually it's a negative in some way. You know, playing around with these different moments as the character is changing, developing, learning about secrets exploring their world. Generally speaking, we tend to think of character arcs as being upward, but I think it's helpful to think of it more as a roller coaster. There should be dips, there should be lots of places where things are going wrong. So that's, that's one thing that I'm thinking about as I'm putting together a series. And then I'm also thinking about my antagonist and my conflicts. And I have often likened it to, like old video games where every level ends with a boss, but then the very end of the game has the big boss that you're really trying to defeat. So the first boss, you have barely enough skills to defeat that first boss. And maybe it takes a few tries to beat that first level, but you do it. Oh, but now you have to do the second level. And that next boss is going to be even harder. But as you go, you're getting better. You're characters are picking up new skills, new weapons, new allies. And so at the end of every book, we have a conflict, a climax, something that we have to face. And everyone is going to be a step up a little more difficult than the last one. So that we know by the time our character is finally ready to face that big conflict, the big struggle, the antagonist, villain, whatever it is you have at the end of the series that you have given them the skills that they need to actually defeat them.

Marissa Meyer (41:27)

There's some great advice there. So let's come into more of the business side because you do have this section on the to do list and I love this because the to do list is never ending. And for indie authors, that with publishing and as well as marketing and writing and everything. So how do authors say no and reduce that to do list in order to stop being so overwhelmed?

Marissa Meyer (41:49)

Oh my gosh, it is hard. And I will admit this is something that I personally have really struggled with. I'm a yes person. I like to say yes. I like to please people. I like to feel like I am doing everything within my power to make a book a success, to further my career. So I get it. I absolutely get how difficult it is to recognize when we need a little space or we need some downtime or when we need to take a step back. For me and I, I didn't come up with this. I read it and I don't know, some productivity guide, self help guide a long time ago, but it really resonated with me the idea that every time you say yes to something, you are also saying no to something. For example, if you say Yes, I will do this. This be on this panel at this book festival. Okay. Let's say you have to travel there. Let's say it's a full day. Being on the panel, probably going to be a signing, maybe there's an author dinner, another full day of travel, going back home. So we've got essentially two to three days that. Yes. And there's lots of times when. Great, I can't wait. I'm looking forward to this. I'm going to meet some readers, I'm going to network with authors. But maybe you recognize that by saying yes to that. I'm saying no to three days with my family, or I'm saying no to three days of working on my novel, or I'm saying no to a day where I could relax and spend a day reading a book and refilling my well. So none of these are the right option. None of them are the wrong option. But just recognizing that there are pros and cons and give and take, take and be really picky about what you're spending your time on and what you are making your priority at any given.

Marissa Meyer (43:45)

Point, it is interesting you mentioned a panel there, and I feel like conferences and conventions are one of these things that is quite difficult. Now, you and I, again, have been doing this a while, so we have a community. Like we have author friends, but there are people listening who might be introvert. They might. Might feel very uncomfortable about going to writing conferences. And they're like, should I just say no to that? Or I guess that the question is, when should you go to something? Even if you feel you want to say no, when do you have to push yourself as an author and when should you give in to those feelings? I know it's tough, but when have you done this as an early writer and then later stage.

Marissa Meyer (44:29)

Yeah. No, I mean, absolutely. This is one of those things where I really think people have to tap into their own, own psyche and recognize what are my limitations, what are my goals. For me, early in my career, I did it all. If I was invited to something, it was an automatic yes. But I also did not have children at the start of my career. So for me, when it really started to change as far as recognizing my time is limited, my energy is limited, I have to step back and say no to more things was when I had kids. And then it really became that balancing act of when do you focus on the writing and the career, when do you focus on family? That said, I mean, there, the publishing process, the writing process, there's ups and Downs. There are times when you are really focused on selling a book, on marketing a book promoting, and that's both. With in person events, doing book signings, doing the festivals, but also social media, sending out newsletters. There's going to be periods where you're trying to get your book noticed by readers, but that doesn't have to be all day, all the time for years and years and years. You can really focus on it for whatever, one, two, three months, kind of whatever your capacity is, and then step back, maybe take a hiatus on social media. Maybe say for these next five months I need to write a new book and I need to focus on being with my family and do some self care. So for these five months I'm saying no to all other requests or I mean, whatever it is, I'm just throwing out numbers. Of course this is going to be different for everybody. But really think about what are my limitations and, and know that you really can't do it all. And I hate saying that because I am one of those people where I feel like I can do it all, just let me try. But you really can't. You have to make choices sometimes and recognize that if you're trying to do it all for too long, then that's a recipe for burnout. And that's the last thing we want. The last thing we want is to get to a point in our career where we dread the writing or we dread the travel or we dread the book event. So whenever you start to feel like it's too much, listen to that, give yourself some space, realize that the world is not gonna fall apart if you take a little bit of time off.

Marissa Meyer (47:00)

Yeah, I love that. And actually I prefer this sort of campaign focus, which is what you were really saying there. It's like go hard for say three months and then take a couple of months off. And I do that. I kind of step back from social media. Some people feel like they have to do. I know the TikTok authors in particular are doing a lot of videos every single day and feel like if they stop, it's all gonna end. That does.

Joanna Penn (47:24)

See, and.

Marissa Meyer (47:24)

But the race never stops, does it? It never stops unless you stop.

Marissa Meyer (47:28)

No, it's true. And there's always gonna be the next goal post. There's always gonna be that next thing that you're thinking, oh, if I just get this many followers then I can slow down. But then you get that many followers and you think, oh, but I've got a book coming out in two months, so I'll have that I'll keep going until then and then I'll slow down. Oh, but now I've got this other thing. I mean, there's always, it's always going to push back. It's always going to be something else. So, yeah, it's hard, it's hard to recognize when you do need some personal space, but it's also really important, not just for our mental health and well being, but for our creativity too.

Marissa Meyer (48:02)

Yeah. Okay. So another thing that some people are not that happy or joyful about is pitching. Publishers and agents, like mostly people, are quite stressed about that. Now you work with traditional publishers. I'm primarily an independent author. There are pros and cons. But tell us a bit more about your experience with traditional publishing and any tips for people who want to, I guess, position themselves in a world of publishing flux as ever.

Marissa Meyer (48:29)

Yeah. Oh, gosh, no, it's a. It is definitely one of the most stressful periods in a career is the pitching to the agents, the querying trenches, the submission trenches. It can do some damage on your confidence, on your everything. So it's a really difficult period. But if your goal is to be traditionally published as opposed to independently published, and as you say, great options, there's so many great directions that we have available to us today. But if you really think you want to be traditionally published, of course, number one, just make sure you've written the best book that you can and get some feedback, have some critique partners go over it, edit and polish it to within an inch of its life. And then when you feel like, okay, I've done the best I can do, write your query letter again, get feedback there. Because query letters are particularly tricky and there is a science and an art to them. Do your research, but then send it off. And number one, celebrate, because that's so huge, it's such a huge accomplishment to get to the point where you're querying. So regardless of whether you get 10 agents interested and you know, it goes to auction at publishers or if no one bites, like, regardless, you have written a complete book and submitted it and that's so awesome. So like take a moment to congratulate yourselves and go out for pizza or whatever, whatever you do to celebrate and then start writing the next thing. And the worst thing that we can do is be, you know, have this book sent out and then just spend all day, every day worried about it and stressing about it and having that anxiety building up and checking our email 100 times a day, which you're probably gonna do anyway. But, but if you can try to refocus your energy on something new. What is the next project you can be excited about, and dive into it, body and soul and spirit, and try to immerse yourself in a new story. And this is for a number of reasons. One, because it's gonna be a great distraction. But two, when and if your book on submission gets picked up, your agent is gonna ask you what else you got. So it's great to have something else that you can talk about.

Marissa Meyer (51:02)

And then what I do like in your book, I mean, I like lots of things, but you do also talk about what might happen if you break up with an agent or lose an agent or an editor or a publicist or. And I. I like that you covered this, because so many people think, oh, if I get an agent or a publisher, that's it forever. And my whole life is amazing, and I'm rich and famous, and everything will workout. So why might some of these things happen over a career? And what's the kind of attitude you need to survive at all?

Marissa Meyer (51:31)

Yeah. No. And this was one of the big surprises for me as I started to expand my group, my network of writers, how common it is to break up with an agent or to switch publishers, publishing houses, to switch editors. It happens all the time. And this was shocking to me because I very much felt like, no, when you've got an agent and a publisher, you are set forever. That is your career. Those are your people. And so I was really surprised that that is not the case. And there's a lot of reasons. Oh, there's so many reasons why one of these relationships may not work out. I've had friends whose agents have retired, whose editors have moved to different publishers. So it might be something rather innocuous, that life just happens. Or it could be a matter of just not being the right fit for each other. Maybe your agent only represents kid lit and you want to move into adult or you really want to start writing romance, but they don't represent romance. It could be a matter of my agents not communicating with me, or I feel like. Like they're no longer focused on me and my career. I feel like I'm not getting the attention that I really need and want out of an agent. Again, there's so many, so many reasons. But it does happen, and it's not the end of the world. It's just a little blip, another blip in your journey. And by and large, the friends I have who have left an agent or whose agent has left their career, whatever, then when they Find someone new. More often than not, they end up feeling like, you know what? This was the right thing. I really took my time. I found someone new who is a great fit for me, who is excited about my career and my upcoming projects and who is really working it and making things happen and making book deals happen. So I know it's really hard in that moment because you can feel like, I worked so hard to get this agent. Why would I ever leave them and go back to querying, but really try to take a big picture look and think, well, I might be going through a bad spot now, but what is the potential payoff in the end? What do I stand to succeed and to gain in doing this? Yeah. So it's a tough decision. It's not a fun part of the career, but it is a reality for a lot of us.

Marissa Meyer (54:02)

Yeah. And if you want a long term career, you're the one who is in charge. So you just make some more choices and carry on.

Marissa Meyer (54:09)

Right.

Marissa Meyer (54:09)

We don't let that end our careers.

Marissa Meyer (54:12)

Absolutely. No. And you're always going to be your best advocate. And we think of our agents as our advocates. We think of our editors as our advocates, and they absolutely are. But ultimately, no one is paying as much attention to your career as you are. So we really have to speak up for ourselves first and foremost, and then.

Marissa Meyer (54:32)

We'Re almost out of time. But I have to ask you about book marketing, because it is a part of every author's life and again, something where happiness and joy might not be such a big part. So how can we, how can we bring, how can we make marketing, like, more fun? And what do you enjoy most about book marketing?

Marissa Meyer (54:50)

Oh, my gosh. If you figure it out, you let me know.

Marissa Meyer (54:53)

Well, I like podcasting, so there you go. Yes.

Marissa Meyer (54:56)

No, I. I also really enjoyed podcasting, although I did just retire my podcast because again, too many things, too many spinning plates, and you have to make some tough choices sometimes for me, you know, find the things that you do enjoy. I learned early on I don't like Facebook and I don't like Twitter. X. It was difficult pulling back from those because I had a fair amount of followers. But when I did, it was like, oh, that was clearly the right decision. I wish I'd done that a long time ago. And then it allows me to focus my energy and my attention on Instagram, which is the platform that I just naturally gravitate toward best. I just enjoy it the most. Most. So pick and choose the things that you do get some enjoyment out of. And Then set boundaries around it. You know, we were talking about the Tiktokers who feel like they have to make multiple videos every day, figure out what. Again, back to limitations. What is your capacity? And have a plan in place and say, okay, I'm gonna post three times a week or five times a week, or maybe I'm gonna do fan art Fridays and I'm gonna do new book Tuesdays or whatever it is. And then maybe I'll have like one fun family post or one fun, like, also, this is a quirky thing about me post every week. And so you can kind of have a plan and break it down so that you're not every morning looking at your phone thinking, oh, I have to post on Instagram again or I have to do a TikTok video. Now what am I going to talk about? I also think it's helpful to maybe once a month or maybe once at the start of like a big promo season, spend some time doing your big brainstorming and kind of like, batch. I like batching things, the things on my to do list. So I'll spend a day brainstorming. I want to do these posts, and then I'll spend a few hours taking the necessary photos and trying to put together the captions or trying to put together the graphics or whatever. And then that's done. And I don't have to worry about that for a couple of weeks, maybe a month if you're really productive. And so it's a really nice, efficient way to kind of tackle that and then be able to move back to writing, which is for most of us, the thing that we would rather be doing.

Marissa Meyer (57:13)

Absolutely. Now, the book is the Happy Writer. So where can people find you and all your books online?

Marissa Meyer (57:19)

Thank you so much. I can be found on Instagram, Arissa Meyer author or on my website@marissamyer.com and books are available pretty much wherever you like to get your books.

Marissa Meyer (57:32)

Brilliant. Well, thanks so much for your time, Marissa. That was great.

Marissa Meyer (57:35)

My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

Joanna Penn (57:41)

So I hope you found this episode interesting and that Marissa inspired you to find more joy in your writing process and your author business. And that if you're feeling overwhelmed, you consider reorganizing things. Things saying no more and focusing on what really matters. I'd love to know what you think. Please leave a comment on the podcast show notes@thecreativepenn.com or on the YouTube channel, comment on X at the Creative Pen or email me joannathecreativepenn.com and send me pictures of where you're listening or your favourite cemetery or churchyard. Next week I'm talking about Kickstarter for authors with Orianna Leckert, who is the director of publishing and comics outreach at Kickstarter, so she knows what she's talking about. In the meantime, happy writing and I'll see you next time. Thanks for listening today. I hope you found it helpful. You can find the backlist episodes and show notes@thecreativepen.com podcast and you can get your free author blueprint@thecreativepen.com blueprint. If you'd like to connect, you can find me on Facebook and X at the Creative Pen, or on Instagram and Facebook @jfpenauthor. Happy writing and I'll see you next time.