Podcast Summary: The Creative Penn Podcast for Writers

Episode: Two Different Approaches To Selling Books Direct With Sacha Black And Joanna Penn
Host: Joanna Penn
Guest: Sacha Black (aka Ruby Rowe)
Date: December 8, 2025
Theme: Exploring contrasting, hands-on approaches to selling books direct as indie authors—from print-on-demand to full-scale warehouse operations—lessons learned, business models, and actionable strategies for writers.

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the diverse tactics indie authors use to sell books direct to readers, comparing Joanna Penn’s digital and print-on-demand approach with Sacha Black’s ambitious move into owning and running her own book warehouse. The conversation explores personal business journeys, critical mindsets for author-entrepreneurs, the realities of advanced direct sales (including cash flow, fulfillment, and marketing), and how both models can suit different personalities, life stages, and ambitions.

Joanna and Sacha break down why “selling direct” means very different things (from simple ebook sales to physical product fulfillment), who these methods suit best, and the importance of building systems, skills, and teams over time.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Landscape of Selling Direct (00:00 – 02:08)

• Joanna sets the scene: few authors sell direct, and direct sales can mean everything from ebooks and audiobooks to running a warehouse.
• Most authors rely on Amazon and other retailers; direct sales are “an advanced tactic” (12:45).
• Print-on-demand services (BookVault, Lulu) allow direct print book sales without inventory or shipping logistics.
• Special editions, bundling, and in-person event sales are growing—but still niche.

Quote
"Different ways of selling suit different people in different ways and at different times." – Joanna (00:55)

2. Lessons from the Indie Author Survey (02:08 – 16:06)

• Motivations for writing vary: 40% want to make money; 20% just want their story told.
• “The reason we write is not for the money... It's the joy of the craft.” – Joanna (04:38)
• Success factors: more books (often 10+), active email list, regular marketing spend, and business mindset.
• Income remains modest for most; top earners almost always leverage multiple tactics and audience building.
• Special collector editions and direct sales are mostly adopted by higher-earning, experienced authors.

Quote
"More books, an active email list, regular marketing spend, and a business mindset... those things are important." – Joanna (10:35)

3. Keeping It Simple for Beginners (14:32 – 18:14)

• For new authors: focus on writing, a basic email list, and launching ebooks/print-on-demand on Amazon.
• Only advance to “direct” when you have a meaningful backlist and audience—otherwise, marketing, fulfillment, and cost can overwhelm.
• “If you’re not interested in marketing at all, please don’t go anywhere near selling direct.” – Joanna (15:49)

4. Sacha Black’s Author and Business Journey (27:47 – 34:01)

• Sacha started writing for publication in 2013; spent years freelancing/hustling before writing Ruby Rowe novels.
• Viral TikTok moment in Dec 2023 led to Shopify direct sales; transitioned from print-on-demand fulfillment to running her own warehouse by early 2025.
• Business experience in process improvement and project management proved invaluable.
• Both Joanna and Sacha underscore that learning authorship and learning business are separate, demanding skillsets.

Quote
"It's wild... I feel like, like this past 18 months, I have learned as much, if not more, because of the business, because of money, because of all of the other legal regulation type changes." – Sacha (32:27)

5. Why Sell Direct? What Are the Benefits? (34:01 – 38:10)

• Full data on customers—build long-term relationships, upsell, repeat business.
• Immediate cash flow: daily or weekly payouts rather than waiting months for retailer payments.
• Increased control: bundling, custom offers, unique packaging, and physical add-ons build community and boost average order value.

Quote
"We don’t get any data from Amazon... you do with Shopify, you know everything about your reader and that is priceless." – Sacha (34:57)

6. Cash Flow Realities & Financial Lessons (38:10 – 42:22)

• Importance of having multiple business bank accounts/pots for pre-orders, print, shipping, etc.
• Need to save pre-order funds to cover future expenses—never assume direct sales money is immediately “profit.”
• Mistakes in estimating print runs can eat into profits but are less risky with print-on-demand.
• Scaling up physical direct sales increases both risk and reward.

Quote
"I treat [pre-order funds] a bit like Amazon... I put it into an account and I leave it there and I do not touch it unless it is to pay for the print run." – Sacha (38:34)

7. The Joy (and Work) of Running a Warehouse (42:22 – 48:26)

• Sacha finds deep fulfillment in creating unique, playful, and personalized book packages.
• Loves physical product creation, team building, and the creative freedom warehouse control brings.
• Acknowledges the immense labor, potential burnout, and staffing challenges.
• Packaging, merchandise, and community-building items (e.g., coins, stickers, popsockets) are integral to her model.

Quote
"I love us being able to create cool and wacky things... We can make a decision, create that physical product really quickly." – Sacha (43:05)

• Joanna contrasts: digital minimalism, focus on content value, minimal logistics (48:26 – 51:04).

Quote
"If you’re a digital minimalist, you don’t want a warehouse, you don’t want all the shipping bits... Or even if you are, you can still do a lot of this print on demand." – Joanna (47:51)

8. Strategies for Growth: Products, Life Stage, and Backlist (51:04 – 52:18)

• Sacha’s revenue soared by expanding product range, not just books: “from £73,500 to £232,000 in a year.”
• Building a customer base takes time; repeat customers, growing backlists, and merchandise all critical to expansion.
• Life stage matters—warehouse operations require stability and time investment.

9. Kickstarter as a ‘Shorter-Term’ Direct Sales Solution (52:18 – 58:36)

• Joanna uses Kickstarter for limited-run, labor-intensive signed/personalized books—no need for a warehouse.
• Sacha’s recent Kickstarter: “£150,000+ ($180K) – 1,501 pre-launch followers, calculated average revenue per follower.”
• Long, laborious fulfillment timelines on mega-successful campaigns—must build in margin for error, fulfillment cost, and time.
• Campaigns not always ‘profitable’ if costs are underestimated.

Quote
"The amount of time it takes to fulfill is directly proportionate to the size of the campaign... it was exponentially more than double." – Sacha (54:34)

10. The Digital Angle and Advertising Minimalism (58:36 – 60:32)

• Sacha only recently began focusing on digital bundles and upsells; profit margins are higher for digital (esp. with targeted advertising).
• Despite multi six-figure sales, Sacha’s success has come almost entirely from organic reach (mailing list, TikTok, Instagram), not paid ads.

Quote
"Your return if you’re doing a £40-£50 bundle of ebooks and spending £4 in advertising is enormous... that is something we are looking at for next year." – Sacha (59:33)

11. Organic, Personality-Driven Marketing—And Why It Works for Sacha (60:32 – 66:04)

• Sacha credits success to her skill set: comfort with video/content, ability to “act a bit like a tit on TikTok.”
• Relentless consistency: “Three times a day, every day since Nov 19, 2023, no burnout.”
• Success not easily replicable for everyone—comes down to personality, skill, and lean-in to personal strengths.

Quote
"If you have a similar skill set to me, then yes you can... Do you like being on camera? Then you can do it. But if you don’t, then it’s a waste of your time." – Sacha (64:11)

• Joanna: “I asked Sacha to train me on TikTok and quickly realized no... This is not for me.” (66:07)

12. Pivots, Sustainability, and Future-Proofing Your Author Business (68:02 – 73:37)

• Build financial buffers: staff salary, personal salary, and business reserves.
• Develop marketing funnels & automations to maximize existing customer value.
• Delegate, document, and systematize tasks for business continuity.
• Plan for change: track market trends, diversify revenue, reinvest wisely.

Quote
"What can I do with the cash inside the company in order to then make it make more for the long term? Because then if you do have a down six months or year... you’ve got enough cash and equity inside the business." – Sacha (73:13)

13. Encouragement, Closing Thoughts, and the Path Forward (73:37 – 77:38)

• Joanna: Any model works—stick with what fits your personality, ambition, and lifestyle.
• Sacha is excited about both creative writing and business innovations for 2026—book boxes, packaging, art projects, “world domination.”
• More empathy for trad publishing timelines after managing large-scale physical fulfillment.
• Not everyone needs—or wants—a warehouse. Choose your own adventure!

Quote
"If you’re listening to this and you’re like, well, I’ve only got one ebook for sale on Amazon, well, that might be all you ever want to do, which is fine. Or you can come to where my business model is... Or you can go even further like Sacha... It’s to really show you that there are different people doing different things, and you need to choose what’s best for you." – Joanna (73:37)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "Different ways of selling suit different people in different ways and at different times." – Joanna (00:55)
• "More books, an active email list, regular marketing spend, and a business mindset... those things are important." – Joanna (10:35)
• "The reason we write is not for the money... It's the joy of the craft." – Joanna (04:38)
• "It's wild... I feel like, like this past 18 months, I have learned as much, if not more, because of the business, because of money, because of all of the other legal regulation type changes." – Sacha (32:27)
• "We don’t get any data from Amazon... you do with Shopify, you know everything about your reader and that is priceless." – Sacha (34:57)
• "If you’re a digital minimalist, you don’t want a warehouse, you don’t want all the shipping bits..." – Joanna (47:51)
• "If you have a similar skill set to me, then yes you can... Do you like being on camera? Then you can do it. But if you don’t, then it’s a waste of your time." – Sacha (64:11)
• "If you’re listening... maybe you're geeking out over packaging like you are, and maybe you’re the people who might look at this potential business model. Whereas some people are like me and don’t want to go anywhere near it." – Joanna (66:07)
• "This ain’t for you, honey. This is not for you." – Sacha, on the patience required for traditional timelines (76:25)

Useful Segment Timestamps

• [00:55] – Introduction to different direct sales models
• [27:47] – Sacha’s publishing and business journey in detail
• [34:01] – Rationale and benefits behind selling direct
• [38:10] – Managing cash flow and pre-orders as a direct seller
• [43:05] – The creativity and labor of running a warehouse
• [52:18] – How to approach Kickstarter campaigns strategically
• [60:32] – How Sacha’s organic marketing model works—and why it suits her personality
• [68:02] – Planning for business challenges, sustainability, and the future
• [73:37] – Final encouragement and practical advice for indie authors

Key Takeaways

• Selling direct isn’t “one thing”—you can go digital-only, print-on-demand, or full “physical product” with a warehouse; success depends on fit and preference.
• Don’t rush advanced tactics—build your craft and audience first, then experiment with direct sales when your backlist and fanbase can support it.
• Personality, life stage, and skill set matter: embrace the methods and business models that excite you, not just what’s trending or talked about.
• Direct selling and “authorpreneurship” are genuinely two skillsets: ongoing education and willingness to iterate are required.
• Systematization (banking, fulfillment, marketing automation, team documentation) is vital for scaling and stability.
• No one-size-fits-all: whether you want to run a warehouse, do Kickstarter campaigns, or stick to Kindle Unlimited, carve your own creative-business path.

Find the Guests Online

• Joanna Penn: jfpenbooks.com, creativepenbooks.com, @thecreativepenn
• Sacha Black / Ruby Rowe: rubyro.co.uk, TikTok: @rubyroweauthor, Instagram: @sachablackauthor

This summary captures the key discussions, tips, and memorable quotes from the episode, making it useful for writers considering their own next steps in indie publishing and book sales.