The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers
Episode: Why Structure Matters More Than You Think. Writing Memoir With Wendy Dale
Host: Joanna Penn
Guest: Wendy Dale – memoir author, screenwriter & teacher
Date: November 10, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Joanna Penn interviews memoirist and teacher Wendy Dale about the critical importance of structure in memoir writing. Contrary to the common belief that memoirs simply recount one’s life events, Wendy argues for a more artistic, intentionally structured approach that elevates memoir to an art form. Together, they deconstruct common misconceptions, dive into the mechanics of memoir structure, explore ethical questions around truth and memory, and offer practical advice for aspiring writers.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Wendy’s Journey to Writing and Memoir
- (14:26) Wendy dreamed of being a writer from an early age, despite her mother's discouragement, moved to LA for acting, but pivoted to writing at UCLA:
“Was studying acting at UCLA and decided I was really going to be a writer. So that was when I changed and really felt like I'd found my calling.”
- (16:03) Tried writing a novel at 19, found it difficult, and switched to memoir as it felt easier to “write about my life.” Discovered this too was a misconception.
What Makes a Memoir Different?
Memoir is NOT Autobiography
- (18:02) Many assume memoir is just a timeline (“this happened, then this happened,” etc.), but true memoir is about selecting and connecting moments/events to serve an artistic narrative.
- Quote (20:21), Wendy:
"You are not writing a chronicle of what you've lived through. You are taking true stories from your life and turning them into art."
Why Structure Is Essential
Learning the Hard Way
- (19:14) Wendy ignored structure until an agent bluntly told her:
"You're a really good prose writer...but you know nothing about structure.”
- Structure is not just the broad “three acts or dual timeline” consideration, but operates at every level—even between sentences and scenes.
The “Memoir Engineering System”
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(21:37) Wendy explains there are two central components:
- Scenes: Where something must happen (the building blocks of plot).
- Transitions: Where you show how one scene connects to the next, often through a central idea, theme, or reflection.
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(24:55) Quote, Wendy:
“Plot can be summed up in two words, and it's connected events.”
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Without connections, memoir becomes a dull list of happenings; with it, you transform experience into narrative.
Practical Example
- (25:53) Even if real events—like visiting different locations in Paris—have no intrinsic connection, plot emerges when you link them (e.g., all moments tied to a search for identity).
The Personal and Artistic Depth of Memoir
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(28:34) Memoir resembles literary fiction more than commercial fiction:
“It's so dependent on the prose, so dependent on the insight...affecting your reader emotionally with your words.”
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(30:24) Outlining scenes with the underlying idea/theme before writing helps you write deeper, more creative prose and relieves writer’s block.
Character Arc and Theme
- (32:57) Wendy suggests:
- Internal journey/theme (character arc) often reveals itself through writing, rooted in fundamental life questions (belonging, identity, etc.).
- The big challenge is filtering and connecting actual life events (plot); the emotional arc comes naturally.
Memoir: Truth, Memory & Ethics
The Line Between Fact and Art
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(35:30) Most reputable memoirists take minor liberties, such as rearranging chronology or reconstructing dialogue from memory—disclosed with a disclaimer.
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Fabricating major events is unacceptable; this is what leads to public scandals (referencing James Frey and others).
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(38:48, Wendy):
“You do the best you can. People who are getting in trouble...are making up big things. Making up illnesses or criminal records they didn’t have.”
Writing About Others: Family and Perspective
- (40:19–43:35)
- Strong subjective POV is essential; readers crave your unique voice.
- Consider real-world consequences for loved ones—Wendy offers a candid account of balancing honesty with care for her parents’ feelings.
- Sometimes, relationships determine what details stay or are omitted.
Memoir as Therapy vs. Memoir as Art
- (44:23–47:10) Therapy vs. Publication:
- It’s valid—and often necessary—to write through trauma and anger, but if your goal is publication, the tone must grant readers insight and distance.
- Referencing Tobias Wolff, Wendy says:
“You should write about what has hurt you the most, but only after it's quit hurting you.”
Defining Success in Memoir
- (48:37–50:24)
- Financial success requires writing a great book, marketing/publicity, and often, luck.
- Memoir is “evergreen”—it holds up over time and can be revisited, unlike rapidly changing non-fiction genres.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On what makes a memoir:
“You are taking true stories from your life and turning them into art...” — Wendy Dale (20:21)
-
On structure as the heart of memoir:
“Plot can be summed up in two words: connected events.” — Wendy Dale (24:55)
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On the dangers of writing memoir as therapy:
“...write about what has hurt you the most, but only after it's quit hurting you.” — Wendy Dale, paraphrasing Tobias Wolff (46:55)
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On family & truth:
"I always write my truth. Now, once I've finished writing my truth...I go through my memoir and I say, well, whose opinion do I really care about?" — Wendy Dale (41:30)
Useful Timestamps
- 14:26 – Wendy’s background and path to writing
- 18:02 – The misconception about memoir as simple chronology
- 19:45 – The agent’s critique and why structure matters
- 21:37 – Global vs. granular structure; the Memoir Engineering System
- 24:55–27:44 – “Connected events” and concrete examples
- 30:24–32:15 – On outlining and making the creative process easier
- 35:30–38:48 – Truth, fabrication, and ethical lines for memoirists
- 40:19–43:35 – Writing about family, handling different perspectives
- 44:23–47:10 – Therapy, trauma, and readiness for public memoir
- 48:37–50:24 – Memoir’s commercial potential and “evergreen” nature
Resources and Where to Find Wendy
- Wendy’s site & teachings: geniusmemoirwriting.com
- YouTube: Search for “Wendy Dale”
- Memoir: Avoiding Prison and Other Noble Vacation Goals
Final Thought
Through candid stories and practical frameworks, Wendy Dale and Joanna Penn make clear that memoir writing isn’t about chronicling life—it’s about transforming lived experience into cohesive, meaningful art for others to enjoy and relate to.
For more writing advice and back episodes, visit thecreativepenn.com/podcast