Writing Horror With Boris Bacic

Summary

The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers

Episode: Writing Horror With Boris Bacic
Host: Joanna Penn
Release Date: October 28, 2024

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I. Joanna Penn's Insights

A. ISBNs Made Easy

Joanna begins the episode by addressing common questions new authors have about ISBNs. She highlights a recent guide by the Alliance of Independent Authors titled "ISBNs Made Easy," which delves into the importance of owning ISBNs, their usage across different formats, and common pitfalls to avoid. She emphasizes the necessity of understanding ISBNs for successful self-publishing, pointing listeners to selfpublishingadvice.org for more resources.

B. Written Word Media's 2024 Author Survey

Joanna discusses the comprehensive author survey conducted by Written Word Media, which garnered responses from over a thousand authors. Key insights include:

• Motivations for Publishing:

  • "43% of respondents said they want to make money from their book." (02:15)
  • "19% indicated I want my story to be told."
  • "16% stated writing is a hobby I enjoy."

  Joanna underscores the importance of understanding one's motivation, noting that those who aim to make money are more likely to invest in marketing and business strategies, which correlates with higher income brackets.

• Income Breakdown:

  • "46% of authors earn $100 or less per month from their books." (04:10)
  • "17% are earning between $2,500 to over $20,000 a month."
    Joanna attributes higher earnings to prolific publishing and consistent presence in the market, highlighting her personal goal of reaching 50 published books.

• Marketing Challenges:

  • "78.5% of respondents cited marketing as the hardest part of self-publishing." (05:30)

  She reiterates the pay-to-play nature of online platforms and the necessity of dedicating resources to marketing efforts.

C. Taylor Swift's Foray into Self-Publishing

Joanna covers Taylor Swift's recent decision to self-publish a commemorative book about her "Eras Tour", which will be exclusively available at Target. She comments:

• "Taylor Swift is a phenomenal businesswoman." (07:00)

  While celebrating Swift's venture, Joanna notes the distinction between her professional team and indie authors, emphasizing that Swift's approach isn't directly applicable to most self-publishers.

D. Seth Godin on Audiobooks and AI

Joanna delves into Seth Godin's perspectives from his latest book, "This is Strategy", and his blog post on audiobooks:

• "I'm listening more than reading these days... a good audiobook can make a real impact." (08:00)

• "I think we're about a year away from the majority of audiobooks being narrated by AI." (08:30)

  Joanna shares her enthusiasm for audiobooks, highlighting their flexibility for non-fiction and the potential shift towards AI narration. She also discusses her own experiments with AI-generated podcast segments, praising AI for efficiently handling tasks but lamenting its inability to replicate human nuance and vulnerability.

E. Joanna's Projects and Updates

Joanna updates listeners on her latest works and ongoing projects:

• New Short Story: "Seahenge" is available for pre-order on jfpenbooks.com, featuring dual narrations with both female and male voices.
• Kickstarter Fulfillment: Backers of "Blood Vintage" received the ebook and audiobook of "Tree of Life". Joanna urges backers to complete surveys to facilitate print edition fulfillment.
• Upcoming Second Edition: She is finalizing the second edition of "How to Write Non-Fiction" and preparing for her presentation at Author Nation, focusing on AI's impact on authors in 2025.

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II. Interview with Boris Bacic

A. Introduction to Boris Bacic

Joanna introduces Boris Bacic, a best-selling horror author from Serbia with over 30 books and short stories to his name.

B. Boris's Writing Journey

Boris shares his path into writing:

• "I started writing when I was a kid... it just kind of morphed into horror." (22:27)
• "After about 20 or so unsuccessful stories, one of my stories went viral." (22:40)

His initial foray into writing short stories for platforms like Creepypasta and Reddit's NoSleep forum eventually led him to self-publishing, inspired by his viral success and the potential of platforms like Kindle Unlimited.

C. Understanding Creepypasta and Horror Tropes

Boris explains Creepypasta as a platform for scary short stories that gained popularity through YouTube narrations and animations:

• "Creepypasta.com was a website where lots of scary short stories would be hosted... similar subreddit came out, which was NoSleep." (23:53)

He discusses the evolution of horror tropes within these communities, noting an oversaturation of rule-based horror themes, such as not entering a place after midnight, which influenced his first anthology, "A Security Guard".

D. The Horror Genre: Misconceptions and Evolution

Boris addresses the stigma surrounding horror:

• "There's still a lot of stigma around horror. People think it's all about bloodbaths or occult Satanism." (27:00)

He emphasizes the genre's diversification into psychological thrillers, romance, and fantasy, highlighting that modern horror often delves into personal fears like loss, isolation, and claustrophobia. This nuanced approach appeals to a broader audience, even those who might not traditionally read horror.

E. Writing with a Sense of Place: Serbia's Influence

Boris discusses how his Serbian heritage influences his writing:

• "Serbia is a very superstitious place... my hometown was number one by suicides in all of Europe." (33:48)

He integrates local superstitions and the dark history of his hometown into his novels, blending folklore with contemporary horror elements. This deep connection to place enriches his storytelling, providing authentic atmospheric buildup.

F. Short Stories vs. Novels: Balancing Creative Approaches

Boris elaborates on his preference for writing both short stories and novels:

• "Short stories allow me to explore ideas without the commitment of a full novel." (42:22)
• "I've written both. Series sell way better... leaving books with cliffhangers naturally sell much, much better." (56:33)

He likens writing a series to developing a TV show, where multiple characters and evolving plots keep readers engaged. Boris finds that series foster a dedicated readership and generate consistent income, unlike standalone novels, which may not retain reader interest over multiple books.

G. Marketing Strategies and Kindle Unlimited Success

Boris shares his marketing tactics that have led to success on Kindle Unlimited (KU):

• "I started publishing more books and running Amazon ads... now my books are gliding very nicely, doing everything organically." (50:02)

He attributes his success to:

• Prolific publishing to feed the algorithm
• Strategic use of Amazon and Facebook ads
• Engaging in Kindle Unlimited and leveraging 99-cent deals
• Building a loyal reader base through consistent releases

Boris contrasts his experience with another author, David Viagut, who found greater success through direct sales outside KU. He emphasizes that marketing effectiveness varies per author, urging flexibility and experimentation to discover what works best individually.

H. Overcoming Challenges in Self-Publishing

Boris discusses the unpredictability of book success:

• "Sometimes books are just dead on arrival... But you can still use those books as reader magnets." (48:12)

He advises authors to persevere despite setbacks, utilizing underperforming books to attract new readers or repurpose content creatively. Boris believes there's no one-size-fits-all approach in self-publishing and encourages authors to explore multiple avenues.

I. AI and Audiobook Narration

While Joanna touches on AI in audiobooks, Boris also reflects on the future of AI in narration and its implications for authors, although detailed discussions on this topic are minimal in the interview.

J. Networking and Community for Horror Authors

Boris admits limited connections within European horror writing circles:

• "I connect with horror authors from America because that's how I started." (60:48)

He expresses interest in expanding his network but faces logistical challenges due to geographic distances and costs.

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III. Conclusion

Joanna wraps up the episode by thanking Boris for his insights into writing horror and navigating the self-publishing landscape, especially within the Kindle Unlimited ecosystem. She encourages listeners to engage with the content, share their thoughts, and stay tuned for future episodes focusing on returning to self-publishing after traditional deals.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Joanna Penn:

  • "43% of respondents said they want to make money from their book." (02:15)
  • "46% of authors earn $100 or less per month from their books." (04:10)
  • "78.5% of respondents cited marketing as the hardest part of self-publishing." (05:30)
  • "Taylor Swift is a phenomenal businesswoman." (07:00)
  • "I think we're about a year away from the majority of audiobooks being narrated by AI." (08:30)

• Boris Bacic:

  • "Horror has branched out into a multifaceted genre where it blends with psychological thrillers, romance, fantasy, everywhere." (27:00)
  • "Short stories allow me to explore ideas without the commitment of a full novel." (42:22)
  • "Series sell way better... leaving books with cliffhangers naturally sell much, much better." (56:33)
  • "Sometimes books are just dead on arrival... But you can still use those books as reader magnets." (48:12)
  • "I started publishing more books and running Amazon ads... now my books are gliding very nicely, doing everything organically." (50:02)

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Key Takeaways

• Understanding Motivations: Recognizing whether you aim to make money, tell a story, or pursue writing as a hobby significantly impacts your self-publishing strategy and potential income.

• Prolific Publishing: Consistently releasing a high volume of work increases visibility and aligns with platform algorithms, particularly on Kindle Unlimited.

• Diversified Marketing: Utilizing multiple marketing channels, including Amazon and Facebook ads, can enhance book visibility and sales.

• Genre Evolution: Modern horror extends beyond clichés, incorporating psychological elements and diverse sub-genres like folk and space horror, appealing to a broader audience.

• Short Stories as Tools: Short stories can serve as creative outlets, promotional tools, or standalone revenue sources, offering flexibility without the commitment of full novels.

• Embracing AI and Technology: While AI offers new avenues for content delivery and production, maintaining human elements like vulnerability and emotional depth remains crucial for authentic storytelling.

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For more insights, resources, and to connect with Joanna Penn, visit thecreativepenn.com.

Transcript

[Joanna Penn]

Welcome to the Creative Pen Podcast. I'm Joanna Penn, thriller author and creative entrepreneur, bringing you interviews, inspiration and information on writing, craft and creative business. You can find the episode show notes, your free author blueprint and lots [e-mail] and that's Pen with a double N. And here's the show. Hello creatives, I'm Johanna Penn and this is episode number 778 of the podcast and it is Friday 25th October 2024. As I record this in today's show, appropriate for spooky season, I'm talking to Serbian author Boris Bacic about writing horror as well as how his success came about in Kindle Unlimited. So that's coming up in the interview section in Writing and Publishing Things New authors often have lots of questions about ISBNs, and the self Publishing Advice blog from the alliance of Independent Authors has just put out a new guide, ISBNs Made Easy. It covers what ISBNS are and why they are important reasons to own your own ISBNs, even if you have to pay, which you do in some countries and not in others, what formats to use them on, where to find them, common pitfalls, as well as a Q and A. So go and read that if you are still unsure of what to do with ISBNs. I seriously get questions every single week on this and I always send people over to self publishingadvice.org written Word Media's 2024 comprehensive author survey is out and definitely have a look at it as it's got so much in and they had quite a lot of authors, over a thousand authors who responded. So I think it's actually very interesting. It's huge. So I can only give you a few insight that I found interesting. When asked about their primary motivation for publishing a book for over 42% of respondents said I want to make money from my book. So let's say that's 43%, essentially rounding it up. 19% indicated I want my story to be told. 16% stated writing is a hobby I enjoy. This is really important. So let's say 43% of respondents said they wanted to make money. And this is about your definition of success. And so many indie author discussions are around running a business and making money. But more than half of these people said that was not their primary motivation. So it's good to know what your motivation is and what your definition of success is, because if you're not aiming to make money, then it's very unlikely that you will make money. And this is reflected in the income breakdown which says 46% of authors earn $100 or less per month from their books, that is not a surprise given that I guess 57% of respondents were not necessarily interested in making money. So I think some people will take this and they'll exit and say, oh, you can't make money self publishing. But the fact is a lot of people don't aim to do that. And I think this is so important. Your mindset around money makes a big difference because it, it helps with the choices you're going to make around your books, around your business. The higher income brackets from $2,500 to over $20,000 a month, accounts for 17% of respondents. And I think that's actually quite high. And I guess the people who would do a written word media survey, people like me, and I'm in that bracket, are people who spend money on marketing. It does say there's a strong correlation between the number of books published and author income. Authors in the highest income brackets are prolific, with those earning over 20,000amonth publishing an average of 61 books. Now this is not like 61 books a year. This is if you have 61 books. So I'm coming up to 50 by 50 has been my goal for years and I am coming up to 50. And so I've been doing this really since 2007, 8. So that's quite a few years. And if you think about, well, if you do two or three a year over years, many years, you're going to get to this number. I mean, I've been doing this for 16 years, I guess. And if you say two or three or three a year for that long, you're going to be over 45 books. So not a surprise if you've got more books. You've been doing this for years, you've spent more time writing, your craft is better and you spent time building your audience, learning more about business. So time in the market and consistency in production is important. And I know it's hard to be patient, but believe me, the years fly by. And what else would you rather be doing? Marketing remains the most challenging aspect of the indie author journey. Not a surprise there. With 78.5% of responders respondents citing it as the hardest part of self publishing. I totally agree. The data shows a clear correlation between low marketing spend and lower income. Again, not a surprise. We are mostly in a pay to play world online on pretty much every platform. And while paid ads are not everything, they do play a part in most authors businesses these days. There's lots more data on genres, spend on cover design and editing, revenue channels, email list, building direct sales, finding communities to support you, and some really good quotes from various authors from the survey. Check it out on written wordmedia.com or links in the show Notes as ever. Also this week, lots of interesting discussion about Taylor Swift's decision to self publish. The Morning Brew says Swift will become the highest profile self published author in the world. The book, which is a commemorative book about the era's tour experience with lots of pictures, will be sold exclusively at Target, which is her partner for many of these things in vinyl releases and things. The part memoir, part coffee table book will cost nearly $40 and include over 500 photos and the superstar's personal reflections from the tour. Swift's venturing into the publishing realm alone exemplifies her business strategy of keeping creative control and maximizing her cut. Which of course those two things are many of the reasons we self publish. So while I love all the discussion on this and people getting very excited, I do think it's awesome. But Taylor Swift is a business powerhouse with a huge number of staff and using the word self publishing in her situation to me is kind of ridiculous. Her very professional company is making and releasing a limited edition book in partnership with Target. So I do love Taylor Swift. I'm not a swifty, but I think she is a phenomenal businesswoman. I don't think this is at all related to being an indie author. So take that, celebrate. But yeah, not really our situation. I'm also reading Seth Godin's new book this is Strategy at the moment. Seth Godin is one of those authors and bloggers I guess I've been following since I started out 20062007 I started reading his stuff and I continue to think that he's a great thinker, not just in marketing but in lots of different areas. And this week he had a blog post and he's been blogging every day for for like I don't know, two decades or something. But he had an article Thoughts on Audiobooks given that he narrated the audiobook of this is Strategy himself and you can find that on your audiobook player, he said in the article. I'm listening more than reading these days and I find that a good audiobook can make a real impact on the way I absorb and learn from a book. It's a once in a century sort of shift in this medium now. I completely agree with that. I often listen to non fiction, particularly on audio and I love jumping into different chapters on Spotify. I think that it is such a good thing with non fiction and particularly this book. Actually this is strategy. It's very much each chapter is quite separate rather than a sort of beginning to end read through. He also says my new book is available in audio. It is not on Audible, at least not now. Audible has exploited their dominant position and the offer they make to authors is unfair and almost untenable. That is a strong statement and Seth Godin said that. That's a direct quote.

[Boris Bacic]

That's not from me.

[Joanna Penn]

But of course I've been wide with my audio for many years now. I continue to use Audible but as a non exclusive agreement. Seth says I'm not sure their monopoly is as secure as they hope. I don't think it is either. All of us have a podcast app on our phones and with services like Supporting Cast and I would also add Book funnel to this, we can get books delivered seamlessly to a podcast app. At the same time they bring authors closer to listeners. As in you can sell audio direct and many people won't care. Seth says, I think we're about a year away from the majority of audiobooks being narrated by AI. One more upgrade in quality and they'll deliver a better, cheaper alternative than all but the most skilled narrators. Reading the new book cost me my voice for more than a month, but I wasn't happen with the AI version of me. So here I am. With each section I ask myself, am I doing the reader a service just as typography took over from calligraphy? I think it's likely that the answer one day soon will be actually the AI can do this with more clarity. But as long as I had the mic, I was eager to do the best I could. As ever, AI replaces mediocre work long before it provides a realistic or better alternative to the nuance, passion and insight that a human brings. But the arc here is clear. So this is a scorching piece from Seth, who, you know, he's a very independent thinker and I'm glad he wrote this because there are these two major things in here. Well, three major things. One, the once in a century shift in consuming content into audio that Audible is. The offer Audible makes is unfair and almost untenable. And that we're about a year away from the majority of audiobooks being narrated by by AI. Oh, and I guess the direct sales. This is a killer blog post from Seth. So yes, I wanted to bring that up. Go read it, see what you think. I think it's really interesting And I'm still hopeful that Spotify will allow 11 labs files at some point. Hopefully soon they will still allow at the moment only Google Play audio files. If elevenlabs have a full service model, I think that will change the AI audiobook game. But of course people are also getting used to Google's voices with the Notebook lm, which I'll come back to in a minute. I also think it's interesting that Seth's book is published by Authors Equity, which I mentioned a while back. If you don't know about them, they are a collaborative publishing company set up to help nonfiction authors who already have a big audience benefit from traditional publishing, but still get higher control and royalties. So essentially they're going to get editorial and they're going to get distribution. But with collaborative publishing they either have to pay up in a advance to support that or they're committing to certain numbers of copies and they're essentially doing the marketing themselves. They get higher royalties, higher control, and James Clear from Atomic Habits is one of the founding authors. So very interesting to see Seth Godin there as well, since he has run his own publishing companies before as well as working with different kinds of publishers over the years. So that blog post I'll link to in the show Notes or it's on Seth's blog and his new book is called this is Strategy and I might have some more thoughts on that once I've been through it. Just a quick extra thing on AI in last week's self publishing advice podcast, Orna Ross and I had fun with Google Notebook lm, which I've mentioned several times now. So normally Orna and I record now a quarterly podcast. It's sort of an advanced show for the alliance of Independent Authors, and I had prepared notes on our topic, which was on the Myths that Hold Indie Authors Back from Success. But Orna was unable to record for some personal things, so we decided to try generating audio based on my notes. So essentially it is and then record our thoughts separately. So it's an interesting meld of two humans and two AI voices discussing material that I prepared. So I had a PDF, it had the things that we normally talk about. So I prepare in advance and then normally Orna and I would do it. But what we did was I discussed some of my use cases for Google Notebook LM in my own sort of solo section up front, talking about research and preparation for stories, book projects, podcast interviews, and then the AI hosts have a chat about the topic and then Orna comes in with her thoughts. At the end I didn't know what Orna had said until the podcast came out. So I just had a look at it and a couple of the things she said. It's very much what Jo and I would have said, which is kind of scary if we had done the podcast directly ourselves. But the nuances and the emotional sense of somebody there, that intuitive sense of timing, the interruptions and laughs and things that often happen in our podcast are not there. Obviously true because it's not a fake. Orna and I, it's two other people. And then she closes with AI can already do a whole load of things far better than I can or you can for podcasts. Generating ideas, summary, summarizing, text, editing, audio, all those kinds of things. AI is better already. What it can't do is bring vulnerability, it can't bring wisdom, it can't bring messiness. The truth of a human lived experience. Absolutely. So I'd love you to go and have a listen to that. That is the self publishing advice podcast. Wherever you're listening to this, let me know what you think. But this is exactly why I'm still narrating my own stories, my own non fiction books. I don't plan to use AI generated voice for my work if I can still read it. And I know I am privileged in that. I've been able to invest in voice training and I've been doing this for many years, so I know it's not for everyone. But for my non fiction books, my memoir, this podcast, my short stories, my voice is part of my brand and that isn't true for most people. So it's going to be interesting how AI audio shapes out. What I would say is if you're signing contracts for audio rights with any kind of publisher, I suggest you check what they are putting in there around human narration or AI narration. Or at least discuss it if this is something you care about as publishers are definitely looking at this. And at the moment, from what I can see from most publishing contracts is they are literally just saying audiobook rights. And to me there are far more than just audiobook rights now. And in personal news, talking of human narration, I just finished this morning in fact narrating my short story C Henge. So it came back from Kristen, my editor this week and I made the updates and I narrated it and it is out already as this goes out, it is out on jfpenbooks.com and it is on pre order. Well it's coming up for pre order on other stores on the 25th of November, so wherever you like to read or buy or listen to your short stories. Coming soon or by now. JFPen.com Seahenge will redirect JFPenn.com Chenge and that I like to have a month of direct sales. Basically it should also appear on your audiobook platforms at some point if you listen on Spotify or or whatever. I am really happy with it. I love short stories. They are so satisfying to write and finish and easy to publish. Easy enough to narrate as well. And I have a female and male kind of voice in the book. I might even make my anthology in 2025 at this rate as I'm racking them up. I do just love to get a short story out and of course earlier this year I did De Extinction of the Nephilim as well. And here's the sales description so you know whether you might be interested what was drowned will Be Drowned again Marine archaeologist Dr. Evelyn Price has spent her life uncovering the mysteries of the deep ocean. But when a violent storm uncovers an ancient timber circle off the coast of England, she faces a discovery that will challenge everything she knows. As the tide rises and storm clouds gather, Evelyn and her team race against time to decipher the strange symbols on the wooden pillars before the sea comes to claim its own once more. Sea Henge is a gripping archaeological short story that blends cutting edge science with ancient myth. Myth. It will leave you questioning what really lies beneath the waves. So there you go. It does have a bit of a twist as well, so I'm looking forward to hearing what you think. And of course if you do read or listen, reviews are always appreciated. I'm also in fulfilment mode for the Blood Vintage Kickstarter. All backers got the ebook and audiobook of Tree of Life this week, which has a similar sort of, I guess theme around wild nature. Check your Kickstarter email if you're a backer. And you missed that that the funds should also come through this week and so I will start fulfilling the digital bundles. Please do your survey if you haven't yet so I can get the print editions sorted as well. I'm also still working on the second edition of how to Write Non Fiction. Just trying to do a few chapters a day. So busy busy in the run up to Author Nation and I'm still finalizing my slides on that because I'm speaking on how AI is going to affect authors in 2025 and it's just changing so much more on that to come. So thanks for your emails and comments and photos. This week Mary said I generally listen to the podcast while walking my neighborhood and sent a picture of a skeleton reaching out of a grave towards a cute cat curled up in the leaves. Very Halloween, very spooky season. You can leave a comment on the podcast show [e-mail] or on the YouTube channel, or message me on X at the Creative Pen. Email me send me pictures of where you're listening. JoannaTheCreative I love to hear from you. It makes this more of a conversation this episode is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life. Kobo's free, fast and easy self publishing platform, KWL was built by authors for authors and their team of dedicated book lovers is always working hard to help you reach new readers around the world. Kobo's author first approach is why they built a promotions tool for you to easily and affordably market your book directly to Kobo readers. There are lots of promotional opportunities for you to keep an eye out for. From daily deals, percent off promotions and buy more save more sales, you'll be sure to find something that suits your books and marketing plans. The promotional offerings are updated often, so make sure you're regularly taking a look to see what's on offer. And if you're taking part in a promotion, be sure to tell your readers all about it. Yes, and on a personal note, I go in every three weeks. I have a note in my calendar. Go into Kobo Promotions tab and sign up for every single deal that I possibly can. This is literally the way to sell books on Kobo and some of them you can pay a little bit to do the promotion. Some of them are a percent off so you don't have to pay up front. It comes out of the royalties. It's a really good thing. So if you are a KWL author and you don't yet have access to that promotions tab, email the [e-mail] and they'll enable it for you. Really important to do this if you publish direct to Kobo Writing Life. If you want to learn more about Kobo Writing Life, check out the podcast available wherever you get your shows. Wherever you're listening to this, just search Kobo Writing Life and find them on social media. Create your free account [e-mail] writinglife so this type of corporate sponsorship pays for the hosting, transcription and editing. But my time in creating this show is sponsored by my [e-mail] thecreative creative pen. Thanks to the eight new patrons who've joined this week and thanks to Everyone who's been supporting for months and years. You are amazing. If you join the community, you get access to all my backlist videos and audio covering topics on creativity, writing, publishing, AI, mindset, business, and my patron only Q and A solo episodes which just went out for October, and my live office hours. I've also got an article coming this week on seven mistakes authors make with money and lots more content in the queue. The Patreon is a monthly subscription, the equivalent of buying me a black coffee a month or a couple of coffees if you're feeling generous. You get access to everything, all the backlist content and Q&As. So if you get value from the show and you want more, come on over and join us at Patreon.com P-A T-R-E-O-N.com the Creative Pen Right, let's get into the interview.

[Boris Bacic]

Boris Bacic is a best selling horror author from Serbia with more than 30 books and short stories. So welcome to the show, Boris.

Thanks for having me here.

Oh, I'm excited to talk to you. So first up, tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing.

Well, I started writing when I was a kid. Back then it was fantasy. This was before the era of computers and whatnot. I was writing in my notebook and I guess somewhere along the line it just kind of morphed into horror. I didn't get into publishing until I was in my late 20s. I had started writing short stories for creepypasta.com for Reddit, no sleep forum. And after about 20 or so unsuccessful stories, one of my stories went viral. And this was a big thing for me because so many people wanted to collaborate. YouTube narrators, creepypasta animators, and so on. So this was a big thing for me. And somewhere along the line one of them had asked me like, why don't I publish a book? And they said, no, no, that's not for me. I'm not cut out to be a writer. But after some time, after more successful stories, I said, okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna take the plunge. I knew nothing about publishing. And after unsuccessful attempts to find agents and publishers, I ran into 20 books to 50k. And this gave me a completely new perspective on self publishing, because up until then I had thought that self published authors do not earn any money at all. So this was a new thing for me. And that's eventually how I got into publishing my novels. And right now I got more than 30.

Wow. Okay. A few questions to come back on. First of all, explain to people what creepypasta is, because I think a lot of people won't know.

Right. So creepypasta.com this used to be very popular back in the day. This was a website where lots of scary short stories would be hosted. So anybody could write, anybody could post them there. If they were good enough, they would be approved. And eventually a similar subreddit came out, which was no sleep Sleep. And this is exactly what it is, how it sounds. It is a forum where people can post short stories. And this was very popular back in the day because so many YouTube narrators started adapting them into narrations and they started adding creepy music over there. And this was a very good way for aspiring authors and even established authors to reach new audiences.

I thought creepypasta stories also had a sort of Internet meme thing in terms of the sort of tropes there. Tropes specifically for these forums.

There are definitely lots of tropes over there. And one of the popular ones that arose from there was the type of horror where there are rules you need to follow. And it became so oversaturated with this after a while that it's like if you enter a church, don't look over your shoulder, don't enter after 3am and so on. So this became very popular. It was very scary back in the day, and so many stories arose from it. And even my first published anthology was exactly like that. A security guard. Because I used to be a security guard who is working in a paranormal place and he needs to follow a set of rules. So there are lots of these that are sort of outdated now, but I can see that even trad authors have started using some of the creepypasta tropes.

And you've said back in the day a couple of times, so is this not a viable place now? Is Reddit kind of? Well, it's not done.

[Joanna Penn]

Is it?

[Boris Bacic]

Is Reddit still somewhere that somebody starting out now might have a look at?

Oh, absolutely. Reddit is an excellent place. Creepypasta, not so much. The last time I checked, it was just not the same. And I can see that most of the interest is coming from no sleep. And we've even had a lot of aspiring authors like me who wrote short stories to Reddit, then they had them published into novels. And I've even seen a few authors who actually got really big movie deals. So no sleep, Reddit generally and stuff like Wattpad. These are very good platforms for that sort of thing.

Interesting. So let's just take it A step back into horror in general. Because I've in fact, as we record this today, my folk horror novel Blood Vintage finishes on Kickstarter. And I've had so many people. I mean, it's folk horror, which is a very small sub niche. But people say, oh, I never read horror. And then I say, oh, well, it's more a sort of eerie sense of place with folklore. And they're like, oh, okay, well, that sounds interesting. So I wondered if you'd come across this in terms of I never read horror versus what. What are the sort of span of horror, do you see?

Well, unfortunately, there's still a lot of stigma around horror. Even in today's era when people say, when people see horror, they think either a bloodbath or occult Satanism. And this kind of dissuades them from reading because this is the two stuff that has evolved from the 80s, but horror has advanced a lot. It has evolved a lot and it has branched out into this multifaceted thing where we can see it in so many different genres. It blends with everything. We see it in psychological thrillers, we see it in romance, in fantasy, everywhere. And it's no longer just about whatever gore is going on over there. It has sort of evolved into this psychological thing. And lots of people who say they don't read horror, chances are they are, they're just not aware of it because it's such a personal thing, it's such a unique thing, and we each experience it in our own way. Something that is scary to you may not be scary to me, and vice versa. And this is the beautiful thing about it. Like, I personally like the type of horror like you mentioned in your book. This buildup of suspense, of the atmospheric buildup. This is my favorite kind. And there's nothing more beautiful and horror than that. When it just sort of builds up to a crescendo that by the time you realize what's going on, it's already too late. It's not always going to be about cutting off limbs or being chased by monsters or seeing boogeyman in the closets. What terrifies me more is this personal kind of thing, like loss of a loved one. It can be claustrophobia, like being stuck in an elevator to someone. That is absolute horror. It can be isolation. So for the people who say they don't like to read horror, they don't want to read it because of this, I can say they're probably already reading it.

[Joanna Penn]

It.

[Boris Bacic]

They're already seeing it every day. They're just sort of Desensitized to it.

Yeah, I know what you mean. And I wonder if it's still. The word has the stigma, as you say. But often people are labeling things differently. So, for example, dark fantasy, I think, has a big crossover. So do you ever label it as anything else?

So sometimes it's really difficult to categorize it. That's the thing. And since I write so many different, let's say, sub genres, horror specifically, it goes into so many different directions. And sometimes somebody who reads a thriller, he's going to say, this was a scary book, this was horror. Whereas for me it might be a different experience. And often, oftentimes it's really difficult to label what exactly it is. It's. It's not clear cut, it's not like cut and dry, that we know exactly what's going on. It's very abstract. I sometimes write abstract stuff that I don't even know what genre it's going to fit in. And it again comes back to what the reader feels about it. So some people are going to tell me this was a very good thriller book. And I tell them, okay, but I didn't have in mind to write a thriller book. This was supposed to be horror. But for them that was what they saw, you know.

Yeah, I think it's. It's interesting. Now I. One of the sub genres I love.

[Joanna Penn]

I love some really small niches and.

[Boris Bacic]

One is merfolk horror. So bad mermaids and bad mermen. And I. So I have your book, they Came from the Ocean on my to be read list at the moment. And I wondered, what are some of the horror tropes you love and come back to? You said you write all over the place, but what do you come back to and what do your readers love, Bess?

Well, the good thing is that my readers are very diverse and I'm very grateful for that because when I did start writing, I didn't want to write just. Just one sub genre. I believe that just like we have mood readers, we also probably have mood writers. I'd say that I'm a mood writer, that I'm gonna write maybe two or three paranormal books. Then I'm going to get bored of it and gonna move on to something else. Let's do, for example, cult horror. Then I'm gonna get bored with that, move on to some something else, maybe a creature feature. Because creature features, in my opinion, they don't require as much planning, sort of, I guess it's more straightforward. But when I want to get into something complicated, I go back into for example, you mentioned they came from the ocean. This is still one of my most popular creature features. And I think one of the reasons for that is the fact that we have not explored the ocean almost at all. We have mapped maybe 5% of the ocean floor. The same thing with space. We're pretty much, much playing in our backyard. And I believe that this kind of creates grounds for fear of the unknown. So you can play with sort of sci fi and fantasy over here and you can leave it ambiguous because there's so much going on there which we don't know. There's so much we can find. We discover thousands of species in the ocean every year. New species that we didn't even know exist, alien like creatures and whatnot. And there's just so much going on there. This is. Has given birth to so many conspiracy theories about merfolk and so on. And I believe this fear of the unknown, it's one of the strongest fears. And I think it's very easy to bank on that in sea horror, space horror, but pretty much anything where you're just staring sort of at the abyss.

Yeah, it's interesting. Just as you were talking, I was thinking the sense of awe. I mean, I go to the Gothic cathedrals of Europe. You walk in and you feel this kind of awe at the majesty of this building. And I feel the same. I've done quite a lot of scuba diving and I felt the same sense of awe on the edge of the drop off with the deep ocean ahead of you. And like, oh my goodness, I am so small. I am so insignificant on the face of the earth. And I find that feeling quite liberating in a way. And as you were talking, I was like, maybe that is why I like merfolk horror. Because the sense of awe, in a terrible sense is. Is kind of where we go with horror, you know? You know what I mean?

Exactly, exactly. And I totally agree with you. It's like you said, you go to this place and you can just sort of feel the echo of what might have happened. Now, it doesn't need to be necessarily true. I think it's just our imagination conjures all sorts of different things. Like when we both stare at the dark room, you and I are going to see different things. Things. And I think that's the beauty of it, that we can conjure so many things that might have happened there. And this can, especially for writers, be very good. But also for readers.

Yeah, absolutely. Now, I'm also always interested in sense of place in writing. And one of your books I think is based upon your hometown. So tell us more about Serbia, because many people listening are in the us The UK might not know that much. And also why you turned your town into horror.

Right. So Serbia is a very superstitious place. I think all Slavic countries are. And not all of it ties into horror. Some of them are innocuous. Some of them are like, oh, don't walk through the cornfield. Don't go out after thunder, and so on. But there are the scary parts. And my grandmother, who lived most of her life in a small village, she had a bevy of stories, scary stories. And my mother also, because she was told by her mother. And so they told me stories, and they were very nonplussed about this. The way they told me these stories, it was like it was a normal occurrence, you know? And there was a case. I remember this was right after my grandmother had passed. On the day of the funeral, my mother came to me and she said, tonight you might feel a presence in your room. And I asked, what? What do you mean? And she said, oh, yeah, you might feel like somebody is, like, touching your face. You might hear your name being whispered, but don't worry, that's just your grandma probably visiting you. And I said, okay, well, that's not nightmare material at all. So there were lots of superstitious beliefs over here like those. But on top of that, my hometown, it was actually and probably still is, I haven't looked into it lately. It was number one by suicides in all of Europe. So there were lots of rumors as to why this was happening. We knew the people are very negative, they're very pessimistic, but what was going on. The town was built on top of a swamp. So there were rumors, maybe noxious gases causing them to have mental breakdowns or something. Then there were rumors of cults, very secretive cults that were hiding in the woods, leaving clues for people who. You know, people who can join if they manage to solve those clues and so on. And this all inspired me to conduct an investigation during the writing of Suicide Town, which was my book inspired by my hometown. And when you're in a small town like this, I believe there's always something going on. It doesn't need to be a dark history or anything like that. Sometimes it's just the way the people look at outsiders, whether they're polite, whether they're rude, how they communicate with each other. There is just so much going on. And I got so much inspiration just from interviewing people there. And that helped me to kind of, of put together a book which blended, I guess the old creepypasta stories along with something that was a full fledged novel.

I like that. I think where we live obviously has such an impact on us, whether it's earlier on in life or whatever. And when I moved here to Bath, I was really struggling with, with this place and like, do I want to live here? And what does that mean? And my book Map of Shadows, which has a sort of dark side of it. And then I found that Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein in Bath and, and found out all this dark stuff about Bath and that it wasn't just, it's famous for Jane Austen. And I was like, I can't live somewhere that's sort of Jane Austen and Bridgerton. But then I discovered this dark, dark side of Bath. And I was like, oh yeah, okay, I can live here now.

Exactly. And that's what I mentioned earlier. It's like you can see horror everywhere. You just, sometimes you get a squint, but it is everywhere. Back when I lived in my old apartment, there was a radio tower across from it. And every night at 9pm the lights would turn on and they would blink for a while and then they would stop. And I would see it every night and I would start to wonder, and this was the paranoid part of me. What if they're now releasing some kind of a signal to brainwash us? Maybe this is like a secret government experiment. And this actually eventually gave me an idea for my book Radio Tower, which was a very popular book back in the day. But anywhere you go, everything you see, you can see horror if you just look hard enough. I think it's just that our brains are desensitized and they are protecting us from the scary stuff.

Yeah, I think you're right. And I, I laugh because I have the same mind. And we all see the thing. I mean, people listening will write other genres and I think perhaps somebody who, let's say someone writes romance and they're seeing that, that tower, that message, maybe their mind says, oh, that is someone signaling their love in space. I mean, maybe it's a sci fi romance or something. Whereas you and, you and I would see something darker. And I think we all have our natural tendency, don't we, to as to what we see in ideas. It's just being open to the ideas.

Exactly. It's like exactly what you just mentioned. Now I had one example where I had mentioned my Lighthouse horror book, which I'm going to write. And a romance author had contacted me, a friend of mine, and she Asked like, okay, but what my brain is not, like, not comprehending what's gonna happen next. Is he gonna fall in love with someone? Is he, like, alone there and he's gonna find somebody, the love of his life? I was like, oh, boy, do I have news for you.

[Joanna Penn]

Yeah, feel free to write your own.

[Boris Bacic]

Romance in a lighthouse.

But exactly.

Well, also, I mean, I guess I know a bit about Serbia. I'm in my late 40s European. But Serbia has also a difficult political history. Do you find that ever comes into your work?

That is interesting. That's an interesting question. I do find that the current situation, like the difficulty with the economy and all that sort of slips into my story. Stories from time to time. There were a couple of books that I wrote which were set in Europe, but luckily, most of my books that I write are set in America. So it's sort of detached from the political and socioeconomic situation in Serbia. However, since I've lived here all my life, obviously, and it's going to be impossible to just completely eliminate that. So there are cases where I'm going to try to hint at certain things, but I try not to do it too often because I think it becomes obvious when an author tries to insert his own views into a book.

Yeah, it's one of my sort of things is I really enjoy the research about places. It's a fascinating topic. So, I mean, on that, we should say your accent. You have an American accent, basically.

Well, thank you. Yes. And lots of people wonder how I learned English. What happened, basically, back when I was a kid, when we had cartoons, we didn't have subtitles, we didn't have synchronized or anything, I had to watch in English. So if I had. If I wanted to understand it, I had to learn English. So at an early age, up north where I live, we speak Serbian and the Hungarian. These are the two main languages. Unfortunately, my Hungarian is terrible. I'm learning it right now. But my parents had tried to force me to learn it, but I was more into English. They said that I refused with every atom of my being, and I instead focused on learning English. And this was very beneficial for me because as I write books in English, and I'd even go as far as far as to say that my English is better than my Serbian these days.

And I mean, is there any point, I guess, in. Do you translate things into Serbian? I mean, it must be quite a small book market.

Yeah, exactly. And writing in Serbian, I guess since I grew up with all these American movies, Hollywood movies, cartoons, read books in English. It felt more, I guess, at home for me. Serbian. The Serbian market is very small, but the Serbian horror market is minuscule. It is non existent pretty much because as I said, there are so many people who are very much against it. I've even had people in Serbia when I tell them I write horror since there certain parts are very religious and many of them are going to ask me like, oh, but what do you think? How would God feel about you writing horror? And I would need to explain to them I'm not writing manuals for summoning demons, I'm writing horror books.

Oh, it's so fun. I laugh in the way I am because I also have been with Blood Vintage. I've been just getting a whole ton of emails and about this kind of thing and how much I must be summoning demons. And I'm like, seriously, just read the book. It's not about that exactly, exactly. Oh, it just, it is funny, isn't it? But we all have these preconceptions of what things are based on stuff. So I, I respect people's opinions. It's just like read stuff before you make a decision. But I do want to come on to short stories. You mentioned them at the beginning and you write short stories, you write novels, as do I. How do you decide whether an idea is a short story or a full length book?

Well, the problem with my writing is I'm a pantser and I usually don't know what is going to happen until the pretty much until I'm close to the end. So sometimes it's not going to be known whether it's a novella, a short story or a full length novel until I'm pretty much close to the end. A lot of times I get the, this sort of inkling for writing a short story based on a dream or whatever. And I don't like the commitment. So I'm just gonna go and churn out a short story in two or three days. And I like that because I don't need to do extensive planning and plotting out for the whole, for the whole book. You can just sit down, you can write it and you're done. These days I try to focus more on novels because I like the challenge. I find it way more challenging. But at the same time, as my writing has evolved, my books have become more descriptive. So there's a lot of atmospheric buildup, there's a lot of suspense, there's a lot of world building character development and short stories don't really give you the freedom to do that. It's very Much getting into the meat and potatoes just get to the straight to the point. Whereas in a book, in a novel, you actually have time to do the slow burn. And that's where I got a lot of inspiration from Stephen King, because his books are exactly like that. For about 70%, there's nothing going on and then suddenly it's just. It just spirals out of control. And I just love that kind of story.

Yeah. And I'm laughing again because I know.

[Joanna Penn]

What you mean with Stephen King.

[Boris Bacic]

But of course he has short stories as well. And I really like writing short stories. And similar to you, if there's an idea that I just is annoying me that I want to get out my head, I feel like sometimes I can just put that into a short story and then it's out of my head and that leaves room for other things.

Exactly. And you can always do both. Some of my short stories from no Sleep actually got adapted into full novels. You can do that. It's absolutely possible. It's just. For me, it's easier to adapt a novel into a short story than the other way around. Because when it comes to turning a short story into a novel, you need to be careful with not adding redundant parts. There have been authors who have made books from no Sleep to full fledged novels. And what happened was there were lots of repetitive parts that were unnecessary, but that sort of worked really well in the short story. And this is a trap that needs to be avoided when adapting one to the other.

Yeah, it's interesting because I write these short stories and then I, I publish them as, as just short stories on my website on Amazon and a lot of the reviews are, this is too short. And I'm like, it's a short story. That is what it is. It is that length. But people say, oh, this could be a novel. And I haven't even considered turning a short story into a novel because I feel like it's a nice self contained thing that in my mind is now finished, it is done. That's how it worked. And now I can't imagine it being anything else.

I'm exactly like that for some of the stories, especially longer ones. I had just finished writing a trilogy and it took me about six months before I finished writing it. I was thinking of doing a short story and then posting it to nosleep so I can promote it. But after writing it for six months, no, I am done. I want to move on to something else. I do not want to see that book ever again.

I guess another question on short stories is Some authors think they're not worth writing in inverted commas because readers prefer long form books. And you might not have enough to do an anthology like you did. They're hard to sell. So why do you think short stories are worth writing?

I think there are many benefits to writing short stories, but it all comes down to who you ask. I know a lot of authors who actually make a living with short stories anthologies and they're doing really well. As I mentioned earlier, one of the benefits of writing short stories is you don't need to commit to it as you would to a full fledged book. So you can write a short one, you can take a break, you can maybe come back after six months, one year, whenever you feel like it. And after a while you're gonna have an anthology with really no absolute commitment, which is great. Now I see that some authors, they just put short stories together into an anthology, they sell them that way. But I see some other authors who are actually selling them as standalones at 99 cents now selling short stories on Amazon. I think this is a little trick here. It's good to diversify. That's the first thing I think. You know, I don't want to be personally known as, as the short story author. So I want to be labeled as somebody who's going to make a novel, a groundbreaking novel, you know. But when it comes to short stories, there's so much diversification, there's so much advantage. For example, you can post those short short stories to what bad? To no sleep. And you can, you can scrape some money up from other sources like my short stories. They still get offers from YouTube narrators and they give me payments meant for the rights for narration. Then you got animators and then you got, if you're really lucky, these content scouts who can actually find your story. They like it and they want to produce it into a short movie, an actual movie, whatever else. But there are so many ways and there's so many rising platforms for short stories where you can post them and you get royalties from it. So I think for short stories, Amazon is not a bad choice. But there's not like one, one wrong or one right way to do things. You can do it in so many ways.

You said those people making a living just with short stories, are they submitting to anthologies through the more horror traditional publishers?

From what I know, doing anthologies with other authors usually doesn't yield a lot of money, sometimes nothing at all. I personally have been in some anthologies and they were not profitable. They were very good for exposure and they were very good for getting new readers. Somebody who reads the anthology because of some other author is going to read yours and he might be like, okay, I like this author, I'm gonna check their book out now, other books out. But when it comes to earning a full time living with short stories, I know a few authors who actually write all of their stories. They compile them into anthologies, their own anthologies and they sell them like that and it works really well for them. But I think it's all about what kind of an audience you cultivate. So if you start right away with cultivating short story readers, that is going to be great. You're going to have those if you start with 99 cents deals. If you start with KU. It all depends. I have personally tried going wide. I'm in ku and I've tried Kindle Unlimited and I've tried going wide Crickets. Nothing happened. But I think it all depends on what kind of an audience you have. And for me it's been years now. I think going into a sort of a different venue would probably not be as successful.

Yeah, well, let's talk about that because I know, you know David Viagut and he was on the show, I guess once this goes out a couple of months ago and he talked on the show about the fact that Amazon didn't really work for his books and he moved out of KU and has is basically selling mainly a lot from his website. But you mentioned there KU is good for you and you had crickets elsewhere. So I wondered why do you think your books have had traction on ku? Are there things that you think might work for other authors who are struggling there?

So I've been wondering about this for a long time as well. And I remember David Vogitz and I, we were talking about it for a while and we were pretty much doing the same, same things. And I was seeing success on Amazon. For him, nothing. It was like Amazon didn't like him. I have no idea what was going on there. And he moved on to direct, which was really good. He's very successful there now. But for me. So what happened was I had first found 20 books to 50k. I published a few books. There were some traction, but not enough to, to earn significant income. And I started doing marketing, but it wasn't.it wasn't going so well. And I figured, you know what, my marketing is probably going to suck. I'm doing everything I can, but I'm gonna have to take into consideration it's probably gonna be bad. Therefore I'm gonna Use the method that Michael Anderley mentioned, which is publish enough books and you're going to be earning enough money. So I started publishing. No, I already had like three or four books that were already finished. I just hadn't published them yet. So I started publishing them. I started running Amazon ads on them and I started seeing more and more traction on Amazon. I believe that in today's era, which might change very soon, the algorithm is a very important thing. And I think what I did was I managed to switch the algorithm into my favor by giving readers books that they liked. Then Amazon started showing my book books to other readers. Nowadays, for example, I have mostly organic traffic. I can, I do run ads on my new launches, but after I turn them off, I'm. My books are gliding very nicely. They're doing everything organically. And this was probably a long history of showing that my Amazon account is doing well. So if you pair that with something like a bookbub deal, that's going to probably change everything because that was for me what really got me into working full time. Up until then it was going very slow. But pairing everything that you know. So ads, newsletter lists, newsletter swaps, newsletter stacks, running ads on different platforms, Amazon ads, Facebook ads, some people run them on Instagram, even TikTok these days is very profitable for some authors. If you pair those and you find what works for you, you give it a strong push and it's bound to work. And I've even tested this with some pen names as well because I wanted to know what exactly worked with Kindle Unlimited. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to tell what worked because we don't have enough information, just like when we do with Direct. With Direct, you can exactly tell where each sale came from and you can pinpoint what's working and what isn't. With Kindle Unlimited it's sort of, you have to guess a little bit, you know. So I'd experimented with certain different genres, different pen names and the result was the same. If you do a strong push with whether it's Facebook ads or Amazon ads, for me personally, it's Facebook ads. Putting the book in Kindle Unlimited, doing 99 cent deals. For me, that worked perfectly and still does.

Are your most of your sales ebooks or do you also do print and audio?

I do all of that audio, print books, ebooks, even hardcovers. But most of my income does come from Kindle Unlimited. From the page reads about 60 to 65, I think comes from that. The rest is ebook sales. Print, not so much. I tried switching to direct, just to sell print over there. Unfortunately, selling from my own store was not profitable because shipping from Serbia to America or the uk, very expensive. So I ended up sticking with ebook sales instead.

Yeah, although just on that, I mean, you could use a printer in the U.S. yes.

Like IngramSpark and others, I have tried using those, but unfortunately I didn't see any kind of sales. So maybe the algorithm over there is not in my favor.

And I think this is what's so interesting. And that's why I wanted to mention that, that because what works for one author, even in the same genre, which is why it's good to compare you and David, who, again, we're not talking about him behind his back. He said this on the show. He said it didn't work for him. And it was like, you guys. I mean, I've looked at both of your books.

[Joanna Penn]

It's.

[Boris Bacic]

There's a clear genre with the covers. They're, you know, not dramatically different as far as I could see. And it was like, why does it work for as one author and not another author? But as you say, you just don't know. You just have to try things. And then if it does take off as it did for you, you're leaning into that. And it didn't for David, and he chose another path. And as we said, he's doing very well. So. It's so hard, isn't it, to know what to do if. If somebody is new or like me writing in a new genre.

Exactly. And it's like so many authors, they give up unfortunately. Unfortunately before they should. Because I know there were so many aspiring authors who wrote an entire series and it just didn't work. Sometimes books, they're just dead on arrival. I've had books like those as well. I've had. There were books that were my personal favorite of Grace and Legacy. It just did not sell no matter what I did. I changed the covers, I changed the blurb, I even re edited the entire thing. Nothing. So it was. It was just. I couldn't understand. I still don't understand what is going on. And I've asked around other authors. They tell me, okay, the COVID is on point. The blurb is on point. It tells you exactly what it's about. It's just not selling. Maybe it's just currently not doing anything for the market, but you can still use those books. So I personally use the Grayson Legacy as a reader magnet, and you can use that to actually get new readers. They read that book and they're going to be like, Okay, I like this one. Let me check out the other books as well. So it can still be used for something. But it's like we mentioned, there's not one wrong or right venue to take. You can go so many different directions. There are so many successful authors who are wide and there are many who are in Kindle Unlimited. So there's no. I know there's like a lot of rivalry between the two. Kindle Limited authors are going to be talking bad about why and vice versa, but I really believe there's really no wrong way of doing things in this business.

Yeah, and on that, I mean, a lot of horror is standalone rather than series. So do you write mostly standalone or have you broken into series?

I've written both and I can definitely say that series sell way better. Leaving books with cliffhangers and then moving on to the next one, it just naturally sells, sells much, much better. And it sells so much better that even the pre orders for the next book in the series, they're going to be organically very good. Whereas with standalones, people finish it, they're done, they need a break and sometimes they're just, you know, we do have readers who just want to jump straight into the next one. But when you finish a standalone, that next book doesn't have to be your book. They can start reading another book by another author. Whereas if you give them something in a series like a cliffhanger, it's a good enough story to get them into it, they're not going to be able to resist it. They're going to move on to the next one. The latest trilogy I wrote was they were all connected, all three books, they're not standalones, whereas most of my other books are standalones. But only after I start writing the series did I see a significant rise in my income.

Oh, that's interesting then how do you write a horror series when one of the things that happens is people die? Do you have to just create a much bigger cast?

Oh yes, exactly. You can create a big cast and there's a lot of these swappable characters. Some characters die, other characters get introduced. You got to think of it as a TV show with multiple seasons. So you kind of follow that concept and it works very well. You give them a fast paced environment, you leave it with every chapter that I end, I usually end it with a cliffhanger. So not only are they unable to stop reading the series, they're unable to start reading the book itself. Stop reading the book. Sorry. What happens is I've had so many Readers tell me, like, oh, I had to. I lost a lot of sleep because I had to keep reading this. For me, this is huge success. So writing a series, it's. It's trickier because when you write about a paranormal house. House, for example, I do not see how this can be adapted into a series. People would get fatigued from that. So it has to be something completely original. Like last year, I wrote a zombie series, and this was more of a apocalyptic series, but it also blended horror elements to it. It was not a typical survival series. This year it was, like you mentioned, a huge cast, lots of things going on, and each book was centered around a certain theme. Theme. So you give the characters a problem they face. Just when they've solved that problem, a new one arises, and that leads into the next book.

And interesting, though, because you said you're a panther, I say discovery writer, and I find that even I have series. But each book is really standalone in that you can finish it. And I'm like, okay, story has finished. So in my discovery writing mind, I can't seem to think beyond that one story. So how do you write? You do that mainly as a panther.

Well, mostly luck. You're just right. And hope for the best. For certain big books like those, like series, you have to have at least a vague outline. So I try to have, like, point A and point Z. So I know what the beginning is going to be like. I know what the ending might be like. But going from that, you know, going through the story, that is where the troubles arise. And this is where there's so much rewriting, so much deletion, thousands of words Lost is the most painful thing ever. And I think it takes a lot of effort to. Because when you actually have something in your mind, when you think of a scene and when you actually start writing the scene, you figure, you know, this doesn't sound too. Well, it doesn't look as well as I imagined in my head. And then you need to change the whole thing. And this impacts the previous scenes, the subsequent scenes. And this is where the problem arises. And this is why I've been trying to transition more into not being a pantser, but planning more, but I'm just not good enough to take notes like that. And my mind is volatile. It's just. I'm gonna have. I'm gonna be walking through the park, and I'm suddenly gonna think, okay, this. This would make a great idea for the story. I need to change it immediately. So I'm not good with taking notes.

Yeah, it is interesting. We, we all have our struggles, but I, I still enjoy being a discovery writer. But I, I also want to ask you, because of course you're in Europe, is there a network that you're part of for horror writers that you found, or just indie authors? Or do you go to American things? Things like the Horror Horror Writers association is mostly in the U.S. yeah.

Funnily enough, I didn't even know there were lots of horror authors in Europe, especially in the Slavic region. I know a few authors who actually, well, they mostly use pen names because of the stigma, the superstitions and whatever, and they like to keep secretive. But for me personally, I am connected with authority authors from America because that's how I started. I didn't know there was anything else in Europe. And since most of my books are set in the us, I try to be more aligned with that. I have not actually been to any American gatherings yet with book signings. I do have one next year, Books and Brews in Indiana. It's a little difficult to go to all those events and I can see there's so many of them and I want to attend all of them, but it's just flying out there. It takes just 10 hours just to get to the, to the East coast now getting anything further than that, it's hell. It's very expensive and I try to limit myself to only the most important events.

Yeah. And the jet lag is a killer. Right.

Oh, and the worst thing is, it's not bad when you're in the U.S. but when you return to Europe. Terrible. It just sort of catches up with you.

Oh yeah, I really struggle with that. I'm going to Author Nation. A fact. Yeah. That'll be the week after this goes out and I'm already like, I have to organize all my meetings as early in the day as possible because I'm up at 3am going woohoo. And then by 4pm I need to go to bed.

Oh, exactly.

It is difficult. Well, we are out of time. So where can people find you and your books online?

Well, all my books, since they're in ku, they can find them on Amazon. They can contact me on my website. Website, authorborisbachic.com. that's b c I c dot com. Or if they want to get in touch, they can also email me. I love hearing from readers from authors. So yeah, those are good ways to go.

Thanks so much for your time, Boris. That was great.

Thank you.

[Joanna Penn]

So I hope you found this episode useful. Whether or not you're writing horror and it's always good to hear from authors in different countries who are having success. As ever, I love to hear your thoughts about the interview or about anything I talk about in the introduction. Please leave a comment on the podcast Show Notes at the creative pen.com or on the YouTube channel, or message me on X at the Creative Pen, or email me joannathecreativepenn.com Send me pictures of where you're listening Next week. I'm talking about returning to self publishing with a second edition after a traditional deal with JYN Stevens, who some of you might know from the intermittent Fasting Stories podcast. In the meantime, happy writing and I'll see you next time. Thanks for listening today. I hope you found it helpful. You can find the backlist episodes and show [e-mail] podcast and you can get your free Author blueprint at the creative creativepenn.com blueprint. If you'd like to connect, you can find me on Facebook and X at the Creative Pen or on Instagram and Facebook. Fpenauthor Happy writing and I'll see you next time.