Podcast Summary: The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers

Episode Title: Writing Tips: Craft, Structure, and Voice With Kristin Tate
Host: Joanna Penn
Guest: Kristin Tate
Release Date: January 6, 2025
Duration: 65 minutes

1. Introduction

In episode number 789 of The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers, host Joanna Penn welcomes her longtime editor and fiction expert, Kristin Tate. The episode centers around Kristin's latest book, "Novel: Decoding the Secrets and Structures of Contemporary Fiction," exploring the intricacies of writing craft, structure, and voice in storytelling.

2. Interview with Kristin Tate

a. Kristin’s Background and Motivation for Writing the Book [23:15 - 23:59]

Kristin Tate, the founder of The Blue Garrett, holds a PhD in English from Columbia University with a focus on novels and publishing history. She shares her inspiration for writing Novel: Decoding the Secrets and Structures of Contemporary Fiction, emphasizing her desire to uncover the "one true formula" for crafting successful novels.

Kristin Tate [25:22]: "This book started as a blog and then eventually turned into a book so I could formalize it and share it with a wider audience."

b. Choosing Books for Her Analysis [25:46 - 26:47]

Kristin discusses her selective approach to analyzing novels, choosing a diverse range of contemporary works across various genres rather than relying on classic literature. This strategy ensures relevance and appeal to modern writers across different fiction genres.

Kristin Tate [25:46]: "I chose a big range of genres to help mystery writers, romance writers, and others find something applicable to their own writing."

c. Common Mistakes in Openings and How to Improve [27:15 - 29:49]

Kristin identifies two prevalent errors in novel openings:

1. Overloading with Physical Details: New writers often provide excessive information about a protagonist’s physical attributes instead of delving into their internal world.

   Kristin Tate [27:41]: "We want to know what the character is thinking and feeling, not just their hair color and eye color."

2. Frontloading Backstory: Introducing a character’s backstory too early can disengage readers from the immediate narrative.

   Kristin Tate [29:49]: "We need what's happening right now to pull readers in, not old news about the character."

d. Understanding Scenes and Chapters [29:49 - 33:32]

Kristin differentiates between scenes and chapters, likening them to containers of varying sizes that shape the reader’s experience.

• Scenes: Smaller units focusing on immediate action or shifts, maintaining narrative flow.

  Kristin Tate [30:24]: "A scene break signals a shift, like a time jump or a change in point of view."

• Chapters: Larger breaks that emphasize thematic moments or significant narrative changes, often ending with a cliffhanger to encourage page-turning.

  Kristin Tate [32:38]: "Ending a chapter on a cliffhanger can increase the pace and keep readers engaged."

e. Plotting a Page-Turner [33:20 - 38:21]

Kristin explores the elements that make a novel a "page-turner," drawing parallels to a roller coaster ride:

1. Managing Tension and Expectation: Gradual builds leading to climactic moments interspersed with unexpected twists.

   Kristin Tate [33:58]: "A good roller coaster has a steady climb, thrilling drops, and unexpected loops—much like a compelling narrative."

2. High Stakes and Deep Character Investment: Ensuring that readers care deeply about the characters and the outcomes of their journeys.

   Kristin Tate [36:35]: "High stakes, whether life or death or profound personal desires, are crucial for a page-turner's impact."

Kristin also emphasizes the importance of revision, especially for discovery writers, to refine complex plots and enhance suspense.

Kristin Tate [38:04]: "Revision can be the key. It's hard to plot a complex page-turner without extensive rewriting and engineering."

f. Balancing Discovery Writing and Plotting [38:48 - 40:23]

Kristin discusses the evolution of writers as they gain experience, transitioning from instinct-driven writing to more structured, strategic storytelling. She highlights the importance of learning new skills while retaining one’s unique voice.

Kristin Tate [40:27]: "Authors learn to see their novels from the top down, integrating structural elements while maintaining their personal style."

g. Reading Fiction for Craft Without Plagiarism [40:27 - 51:05]

Kristin addresses concerns about reading fiction for inspiration versus the fear of inadvertent plagiarism. She advocates for reading widely, including outside one’s genre, to absorb diverse techniques and foster originality.

Kristin Tate [43:30]: "Reading is a way to intuitively let story structures sink in. It's one of the most pleasurable ways to learn how to write."

She reassures authors that reading various styles enhances their own voice rather than stifling it.

Kristin Tate [44:58]: "Reading different genres helps writers incorporate unique techniques without losing their own voice."

h. Using Quotes in Nonfiction [45:44 - 50:17]

Kristin explores the ethical and legal considerations of using quotes in nonfiction works, emphasizing the importance of fair use. She advises:

1. Limiting Quotations: Generally, use no more than 10% of a work to stay within fair use.

   Kristin Tate [49:29]: "Don't use more than 10% of a work, especially for book-length materials."

2. Respecting Context: Ensure quotes are used ethically and accurately to respect the original authors and avoid misrepresentation.

   Kristin Tate [50:17]: "Treat other authors with respect and avoid mischaracterizing their work."

Kristin also mentions the challenges of using song lyrics and poems unless they are in the public domain.

Kristin Tate [49:29]: "Avoid using song lyrics and poems unless they're out of copyright."

i. Transforming Written Material into Other Formats [51:05 - 53:31]

Kristin shares her strategies for bringing book material off the page, such as creating visual aids to understand complex structures and initiating a novel study book club to foster community learning and discussion.

Kristin Tate [53:31]: "A community book club can help authors unpack structures collaboratively and support each other through the writing process."

j. AI in Editing and Writing: Benefits and Limitations [53:56 - 64:11]

Kristin delves into the evolving role of AI in the writing and editing process, highlighting both its advantages and inherent limitations:

• Benefits:

  • Editing Assistance: Tools like ProWritingAid can handle grammar, punctuation, and basic structural edits, allowing human editors to focus on nuanced elements like voice and creativity.

    Kristin Tate [62:33]: "AI tools handle the basics, freeing up human editors to work on line editing and creative enhancements."

  • Productivity Enhancements: AI can assist with tasks such as generating book descriptions and summarizing content efficiently.

    Kristin Tate [55:17]: "AI can help with productivity tasks, but the human element is irreplaceable for creative and emotional coaching."

• Limitations:

  • Lack of Human Touch: AI struggles with capturing the unique voice and emotional depth that human editors provide.

    Kristin Tate [55:17]: "Ultimately, you're looking for human readers. AI lacks the ability to truly understand and enhance the human element in writing."

  • Flat and Generic Output: AI-generated content often lacks the depth and uniqueness that personal storytelling brings.

    Kristin Tate [60:23]: "AI-generated synopses are often flat and lack the vibrancy that human-written content possesses."

Kristin emphasizes the importance of transparent communication between authors and editors regarding AI usage and advocates for maintaining the human element to preserve the authenticity and creativity of the work.

Kristin Tate [57:48]: "AI cannot replace the human element needed for emotional and psychological support in the writing process."

3. Conclusions and Key Takeaways

Throughout the episode, Kristin Tate provides invaluable insights into the nuanced aspects of writing fiction, emphasizing the balance between structure and creativity. Key takeaways include:

• Prioritize Character Depth Over Physical Details: Focus on what drives your characters emotionally and psychologically.
• Strategic Use of Scenes and Chapters: Utilize these containers to manage narrative flow and maintain reader engagement.
• Embrace Revision as a Tool for Refinement: Especially crucial for discovery writers to shape and enhance complex plots.
• Ethical Use of Quotes in Nonfiction: Adhere to fair use principles and respect original authors to maintain integrity.
• Leverage AI Tools Wisely: Use AI for basic editing and productivity, but rely on human editors for preserving voice and creativity.

4. Future Episodes and Events

Joanna Penn hints at upcoming content, including an interview with Joe Solari on building a profitable author business and discussions about the Author Nation conference slated for 2025. She also promotes Kristin's novel study book club and her new nonfiction release, further emphasizing the collaborative and evolving nature of the writing community.

Notable Quotes:

• Kristin Tate [27:41]: "We want to know what the character is thinking and feeling, not just their hair color and eye color."
• Kristin Tate [33:58]: "A good roller coaster has a steady climb, thrilling drops, and unexpected loops—much like a compelling narrative."
• Kristin Tate [44:58]: "Reading different genres helps writers incorporate unique techniques without losing their own voice."
• Kristin Tate [55:17]: "Ultimately, you're looking for human readers. AI lacks the ability to truly understand and enhance the human element in writing."

Resources Mentioned:

• "Novel: Decoding the Secrets and Structures of Contemporary Fiction" by Kristin Tate
• The Blue Garrett: thebluegarrett.com
• ProWritingAid: prowritingaid.com
• Patreon: patreon.com/TheBlueGarrett

Connect with Joanna Penn:

• Website: thecreativepenn.com
• Email: joannathecreativepen.com
• Social Media: Facebook, Twitter (X), Instagram @fpenauthor

This episode offers a deep dive into the craft of writing fiction, blending academic insights with practical advice, and underscores the symbiotic relationship between authors and editors in the age of AI.