The Charming, Amusing, Surprisingly Low-Confidence Matthew Rhys

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Charming, Amusing, Surprisingly Low-Confidence Matthew Rhys"

The Daily / The Interview (NYT)
Host: Lulu Garcia-Navarro
Guest: Matthew Rhys
Date: August 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with acclaimed Welsh actor Matthew Rhys, known for his dual Emmy-nominated performances this year in "Widow's Bay" and "The Beast in Me." Host Lulu Garcia-Navarro delves into Rhys’s self-effacing nature, the complexities of his craft, national identity, typecasting, and his partnership with actress Keri Russell. The conversation balances humor and vulnerability, while Rhys reflects on his career, his Welsh roots, and why, despite his success, he still struggles with confidence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Channeling David Niven: On Confidence and Charm

[01:51–04:49]

• Rhys playfully admits to "eternally seeking to channel the spirit of David Niven," the suave, self-assured classic actor. He contrasts Niven’s effortless grace with his own "nervous Nelly" energy:

  "I'm always really like a nervous Nelly … and then I look at Niven and he's just so gracious… I wish I could be that person." (Matthew Rhys, 02:18)

• Lulu notes the contrast between Niven's public persona and the more brooding Welsh actor archetype (Richard Burton, Anthony Hopkins). Rhys sees Niven as a life inspiration, not an acting model.

2. Welsh Identity and Insecurity

[04:06–05:54]

• Rhys explains how Welsh cultural history—being England’s “ignored cousin”—engenders a sense of national insecurity, something he feels personally.

  "I've always felt of slightly not fitting in ... there's a great kind of subservience and insecurity to a degree, nationally." (Matthew Rhys, 04:07)

• This sense of not belonging carried into his early career and underpins his ongoing self-doubt.

3. Early Career Choices & Regrets

[06:04–08:23]

• Rhys clarifies he was never "choosy" early on, with one notable exception: he turned down Hamlet at 24, feeling emotionally unready.

  "I don't have the emotional maturity to play Hamlet at 24. And now, sadly, the Dane has passed ... I bitterly regret that." (Matthew Rhys, 06:32–07:09)

• He connects this to low self-esteem, contrasting himself with peers who embraced major roles early.
• Notable Quote:

  "Any number of other actors going, 'Of course I’m gonna do it and I'll do it well,’ and I was like, ‘I can't do that…’" (Matthew Rhys, 08:23)

4. Acting Training: Method vs. Facade

[08:37–11:37]

• Rhys shares how, although British-trained, he was heavily influenced by American method acting (via RADA teacher Doreen Cannon):

  "We were taught by a New York acting teacher...So yes, that was her ethos." (Matthew Rhys, 09:12–09:25)

• He distances himself from the "pariah" behavior sometimes associated with method actors:

  "We were taught a method, but ... I've never once stayed in character." (Matthew Rhys, 11:25)

5. Breaking Out in Comedy: “Widow’s Bay” and Typecasting

[11:51–15:34]

• Discussing his Emmy-nominated comedic performance, Rhys notes he initially doubted himself in the role due to his perceived "Celtic lid" and being typecast as serious.

  "I have slightly hooded eyes…so you don't have a face for comedy." (Matthew Rhys, 13:15)

• He followed the director’s advice to play the comedy as drama, focusing on character motivation—a technique rooted in his acting training.

• Memorable Insight:

  "Almost the same [approach]. What was great was ... I hate talking about the process ... So part of the method I was taught is your character should have a super objective." (Matthew Rhys, 14:13)

6. The Appeal of Horror and the Cultural Zeitgeist

[15:34–18:27]

• Rhys and Lulu discuss the current popularity of horror as reflective of contemporary anxieties:

  "The things we're seeing are horrific, but yet nothing changes or stops. So it makes perfect sense we'd find it in our fictional entertainment." (Matthew Rhys, 17:11)

• Rhys expresses practical worries about the new model of TV production, where series renewal and long delays threaten momentum (18:27).

7. On Layered Characters and Darkness

[19:23–21:58]

• Rhys reflects on his penchant (or typecasting) for characters with hidden depths or darkness, from "The Americans" to "The Beast in Me":

  "When the character has something else going on, it just gives you so much more to play..." (Matthew Rhys, 19:58)

• He jokes about enjoying roles with "menace and rage," but admits this is partly a performance and a male acting cliché.

8. The “Girls” Episode and Realism in #MeToo Roles

[21:58–26:38]

• Recounting his role as Chuck Palmer in "Girls," Rhys details how collaborating with Lena Dunham (who based the character on real experience) and rehearsing the episode allowed for a more nuanced portrayal.

  "She was interested in the real discussion...he couldn't just be villainized off the bat." (Matthew Rhys, 24:23)

• On what the character’s final look meant:

  "All that kind of quote-unquote discussion … is meaningless because... ultimately that's all he wants." (Matthew Rhys, 25:32)

• Memorable Moment:

  "I've never encountered a tray of prosthetic penises before." (Matthew Rhys, 26:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Welsh Pessimism and American Optimism

  "It's almost like an Olympic sport to take someone down once they think they're above their station." (Matthew Rhys, 29:13)

  "For the Welsh, we do have a wildly strong sense of pessimism coursing through our veins." (30:02)

• On Success and Insecurity

  "I have the parrot keep saying, 'It's all gonna fail...'" (Matthew Rhys, 30:20)
  "Tom Hanks' motto is, 'This too shall pass.' And he says that about everything." (30:20)

• On Not Being Cast in Movies vs. TV

  "Movies, to me, are still the kind of the grail … they still have that allure." (Matthew Rhys, 44:35)

• On Auditioning and Rejection

  "If you want something, get after it, go and do it... I still have that hunger." (Matthew Rhys, 45:31)
  "Who got it? … Ed Norton. I was like, oh, okay. But terrible." (46:25)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Channeling David Niven / "Nervous Nelly" Discussion: 01:51 – 04:49
• Welsh Identity and Insecurity: 04:06 – 05:54
• Early Career and Turning Down Hamlet: 06:04 – 08:23
• Acting Training / Method vs. British Approach: 08:37 – 11:37
• "Widow's Bay" and Comedy: 11:51 – 15:34
• Horror’s Popularity and Cultural Reflection: 15:34 – 18:27
• On Roles with Hidden Depths and "Beast in Me": 19:23 – 21:58
• Playing Chuck Palmer in "Girls" / #MeToo Era: 21:58 – 26:38
• Welsh Pessimism & American Optimism: 28:58 – 32:46
• Welsh Language and Colonial History: 33:00 – 34:56
• Voicing Han Solo in Welsh: 35:13 – 36:45
• Relationship with Keri Russell / Balancing Family and Career: 36:45 – 42:11
• On Awards, Career Safety, and Hunger: 43:08 – 45:49
• Super Objective in Art and Life: 46:27 – 47:54

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Additional Topics & Humor

• On Choosing a Prosthetic Penis for “Girls” (26:13):
  "I can't choose my own because... somebody else choose it because then I can't be judged about my choice."
• On Family Life with Keri Russell (40:45):
  "It's like a circus. We both have Moleskine planners... It is one of the hardest elements ... saving money for the kids' therapy when they're older."
• On Who Should Win the Emmy (43:12):
  "Would you rather she wins than you? ... 100%. 100%."

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Reflection & Closing Thoughts

• Rhys maintains a humble, humorous perspective throughout, repeatedly returning to the theme of self-doubt—casting it as both a national trait and an individual emotional north star.

• Despite career highs and Emmy accolades, he confesses he’ll never quite feel "safe" or fulfilled by awards alone:

  "You always think, especially with the awards, you think it'll fulfill something … And it does nothing. The ... gaping hole ... is still very much at the center of your gut." (Matthew Rhys, 44:35)

• His ultimate ambition:
  To one day look at a performance and feel satisfied—and, more quietly, to finally cultivate the calm confidence he admires in others.

• Final Quote (on confidence and life objectives):

  "I want to get to a place where I just feel confident … I'm not faking that … that I genuinely feel calm and confident in myself." (Matthew Rhys, 47:31)

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For anyone interested in acting, creative insecurity, national identity, or the realities of artistic partnership, this candid conversation with Matthew Rhys is lively, honest, and filled with takeaways for careers and life.

Transcript

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

This podcast is supported by National Geographic's Lion. What does it take to become a real Lion King? One cub is about to find out. For nearly four years, National Geographic followed a single pride of lions and a cub named Keo on an epic journey in this new documentary series from executive producers Jon Favreau and Mike Gunton, and with music by Hans Zimmer. Lion premieres Wednesday, August 19th on National Geographic, streaming next day on Disney and Hulu.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

From the New York Times, this is the interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. The actor Matthew Rhys is on a tear. He starred in this year's surprise breakout hit Widow's Bay as a small town mayor trying desperately to bring tourism to his sleepy island despite locals warning that the place is haunted. Reese also starred in the Beast in Me as Niall, a New York real estate developer rumored to have murdered his wife. Both of those parts won him Emmy nominations this year. Yes, he's nominated twice, but as I found out when we spoke, that doesn't mean he's feeling secure in his career. We got into that and talked about some of his other memorable roles and about his life with his partner, Keri Russell, who he fell in love with on the set of the Americans. Here's my conversation with Matthew Rhys. But first, a quick message. If you're not a subscriber, we have some news for you now. Explore the Times for free without paywalls during your first month in the New York Times app. Just download the app and we hope you enjoy it. Okay, onto the interview. Matthew Reese, thank you so much for being here.

[Matthew Rhys]

Thank you for the invite.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

So the best description of you that I've seen is actually your own.

[Matthew Rhys]

Oh, God, yes. Here we go. Yeah. Immediately panicked.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

All right. You said that you are, quote, eternally seeking to channel the spirit of David Niven. And that, of course, is referring to the great leading man who has Welsh roots. I discovered his autobiography, the Moon Is a Balloon is one of my absolute favorite books in the world.

[Matthew Rhys]

Agreed.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Can you tell me what you meant by that?

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. I feel my life or how I am in the world. I'm always really like a nervous Nelly and I'm always like, oh, my God, I said the wrong thing. I did the wrong thing. And then I look at Niven and he's always so quietly self assured and calm and seemingly said the right thing, even when a naked person ran behind him at the Oscars. And I just wish I could be that person and say the right thing and be gracious and effortless and always think of others and every Time you read of an actor who worked with David Niven, they always say he was just so gracious to everyone and thought of others all the time and said the right thing and was calm. And I was like, God, I wish I could be that person.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah. It's interesting the way that you view him, because he is witty and charming and always said the right thing. But also maybe a bit frivolous.

[Matthew Rhys]

Maybe a bit frivolous in what sense or with what?

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Well, I mean, you know, he was the perfect party guest.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And in terms of his acting. Yeah, he was a good actor. I wouldn't say a great actor.

[Matthew Rhys]

I'd agree.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And when I think of your work, I think more of sort of the great Welsh actors, you know, Richard Burton and Anthony Hopkins and the OG Ray Milan, you know, who were sort of brooding, dark characters. And so I guess what you're saying is David Niven in life and perhaps others in work.

[Matthew Rhys]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And I would say that. I would say Richard Burton is on par with Niven in that sense as to who I would aspire to be. Cause Burton, seemingly, he was the first to kind of be very, very un Welsh to me, which was arresting and inspiring.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

What is un Welsh?

[Matthew Rhys]

I think we're a small country who have suffered for being England's neighbor. The small kind of cousin who's always ignored and put into the corner and kind of told what to do by Eng. And therefore, I think there's a great kind of subservience and, And, And. And insecurity to a degree, nationally. And he was one of the first to kind of really, with this great confidence and hubris going, I'm not going to be that. I'll take Hollywood by storm. I will challenge Onassis for the diamond. I will. I will. He was very un Welsh in his bravado. Yes. Yeah. And I. And to me, it was like, wow, we're allowed. We're allowed to be that.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I want to go just back to the David Niven thing, because you describe being a nervous Nelly. Can you just elaborate on that a little bit? Like, what do you mean?

[Matthew Rhys]

Well, I think that just stems from the early days of kind of growing up in a school that was heavily into sports and being the only one who wanted to do acting. And then you go to drama college in. I went to drama college in London. And then being the kind of the young Welsh person, like, I've always. And now I'm just, you know, another fish out of water in America. I always. I've always felt of slightly not fitting it. I know, and it's the boring actor's cliche. No, I've never fitted in, but. And I don't say it's a cross I've had to bear. I'm just saying this is a slight feeling of it. And I've never just, you know, all the stuff that me and my mob always moan about, I've never felt that kind of. Kind of confidence, that self assuredness that I always wished I had. Which is maybe why we always pretend

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

to be other people.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

You fake it pretty well

[Matthew Rhys]

in so many ways. Not just the acting.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah, I'm interested in this period that you had where you had early success. You were in a stage play of the Graduate on London's West End. And then you had this period of not being able to find work in your early parts of your career. Did you ever turn anything down because you wanted to have a certain kind of career? Were you being choosy or were you just not finding the kinds of roles that you wanted?

[Matthew Rhys]

Oh, no, no, it was never choosy. Especially almost throughout my entire 20s. It was never, it was never a choice I had. There was just. There's only one. There's one job I turned down that I to this day bitterly regret, which was to play Hamlet. And I was 24 and I turned on Hamlet. I know because I. The. It's field, it felt sorry. Field felt like a mountain I was too young to climb. And I was like, I don't have the emotional maturity to play Hamlet at 24. And now, sadly, the Dane has passed, but, yeah, I don't feel, you know, I'll ever get that chance again.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

You knew that you didn't have the image.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, I remember saying it to my agent at the time. I was like, I can't play Hamlet now. I don't have that in me. That's maybe in five, six years, but not now. There's no way I could play it now. And then Ben Whishaw did it at 21.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

What do you feel like you have to have inside of you in order to play a role? Like, what are you? I mean, when you were younger, did you feel like there had to be emotional material there for you to sort of be able to channel the person?

[Matthew Rhys]

Exactly. You know, obviously Hamlet's going through so much. At the time I just felt I haven't worn enough shirts. I haven't lived a life yet in order to kind of.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And you can't pretend isn't that accurate. I don't mean to be. To tell you Your business.

[Matthew Rhys]

Oh, believe me, how right you are. Yes. And I look back and go, why didn't I just pretend? I think, you know, we do kind of put Hamlet on a plinth and we kind of see it as this Everest that. Can it be summited? Should be summited. Cause it's there. It should be summited. And it was for me, I was like this, you know, it was a. It's just one of those roles.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Do you think it was low self esteem?

[Matthew Rhys]

Without question. I think any number of other actors going, of course I'm gonna do it and I'll do it well. And I was like, I can't do that. That's not in me. I can't do it. I bitterly regret that you mentioned something

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

you studied at rada, which is the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art in London, and that's sort of the highest echelon acting school. What would you say the sort of main differences between American acting and British acting or the acting that you. I mean, I have thoughts about this, but the acting that you kind of were brought up in because just hearing you say that, that you kind of needed some emotional material to do it.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, that, that speaks to a philosophy of acting that. I'm wondering what it is. Exactly.

[Matthew Rhys]

What do you think that philosophy is? Is it more American?

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I would say it's more. It's more American.

[Matthew Rhys]

I agree, I agree. And we were taught by a New York acting teacher at Wild Raja called Doreen Cannon, and she was from the kind of royalty of New York acting schools.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

So, like method acting.

[Matthew Rhys]

Stella. Yeah, she'd come through that. So she. Yes, that was her, her ethos and that was the way we were taught. It was this great subversive moment in, in the RADA history whereby Americans were brought in to teach acting, you know, which kind of. Let's reinvent the wheel here.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah. And how did that, how did that inform how you learned how to act?

[Matthew Rhys]

I loved it because also as much as I was watching Richard Burton, the huge heroes for me were Brando and De Niro and Pacino. So all of a sudden I felt like I was getting an insight into their world the way they did it. And I, you know, grew up watching their movies. So all of a sudden I was like, oh, my God, we're getting the secrets.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rhys]

So it was very exciting to me. It was getting away from this idea that it was pretense. It suddenly became very real. And, and, and in a way, I suppose a little more, this is a self justification of dressing up for a living, but kind of more worthy or noble, that if you do it for real, it's not facade, which is a little more humiliating.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Well, there's a lot of debate now because female actors have talked about how this is a, it's a male conceit to be a method actor, that it's because, you know, men are much more comfortable, you know, navel gazing and women have to use their brains in other ways. True, true. I mean, what do you think about that sort of, well, debate?

[Matthew Rhys]

I, I agree. I, I agree that it's, it's the, the term has become this kind of pariah now for, for bad behavior. And, and what I, what I like, what I loved about the training we had at college is that they stripped the myth from it. They're like, look, it's like a switch. It's like a toolkit. So there's no self indulgence. There's no kind of being rude to people. There's no doing push ups before a take. You know, if you're playing Macbeth, you're not going to become the king of Scotland. So it's like, it's giving you a toolkit that you can call upon whenever you need it and when you should need it. But it also makes it a lot more clinical, a lot easier. There's no, you don't stay in character. There's no reason to stay in character. Between action and cut. That's it.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

You don't do it.

[Matthew Rhys]

No, no, no. We were taught a method, but I'm not. I'm not. I suppose in the modern term I would say is a, A method act. I've never once stayed in character.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

You don't go home and speak in an American accent or.

[Matthew Rhys]

I do sometimes to annoy the kids and they're like, oh, stuff it. Yeah. Or if I order food on the phone, I do an American accent. Cause sometimes you're like, it's just quicker. The kids are like, why are you doing that?

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah. All right. I want to talk about your Emmy nominated roles. First of all, congratulations.

[Matthew Rhys]

Thank you very much.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

19 Emmy nominations for Widow's Bay.

[Matthew Rhys]

Unbelievable. It's unbelievable.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Part of what is obviously so unique about the show is this blend of horror and comedy. So first on the comedy I saw, the casting director recently said about you that no one knew how good you were going to be in a comedy role, which made me wonder why you were cast, by the way. But, you know, they said you'd never really done a role like that before.

[Matthew Rhys]

No, no.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, did you doubt yourself why did you want to try to do comedy? Because you're not known as a comedic actor.

[Matthew Rhys]

No, and I didn't. I always wanted to kind of give comedy a. And then the script came in and I was like, oh, my God, this is amazing and original and weird and quirky. And I was like, is this comedy or is this the kind of part you're gonna play for real? And then I met with Katie Dipple and Hiro Mirai, and Hiro said, look, we're not playing this as a comedy. It has to be played as a drama. Otherwise it doesn't work. It'll become self conscious and farcical. So you have to play it for real. And I was like, oh, great. Yeah. The pressure was taken away and I didn't have to think about it being a comedy.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Is that why you've steered away from comedy up until now?

[Matthew Rhys]

No, I just think because I've seen

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

you in roles where you're yourself. Right. And you're funny.

[Matthew Rhys]

Well, thank you very much.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rhys]

I also think. I also think I have what they call the Celtic lid. You know, I have slightly hooded eyes like Robert Mitchum. So you don't have a face for comedy. People think you're kind of downtrodden and serious all the time. Like, if I have a brighter eye, I might be better for comedy, but it's not something I've overtly or consciously avoided. I just think, as in so many times with this profession, you can slightly get put into your little category and you stay there.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Right. When you had to go and play the character, did you think, all right, I have to play this for real? And by the way, other actors who do do comedy say that you have to play it straight. Like, in any comedy, you have to be completely. Put it to the bit. Because if not, it's yes, yeah, yeah. But this is obviously like a fantastical world.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes, yes.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And so how do you commit to the bit when you're having to be chased by, you know, killer clowns and horny sea hags?

[Matthew Rhys]

The. Almost the same. What was great was. I was gonna say, oh, God, I. Well, okay. Because I hate talking about the process. My process. Right, okay. So. So part of the method, I was taught, is when you approach a project, your character should have a super objective. What is the one thing throughout the whole project he desperately wants? So I thought if I give myself a very strong super objective for this, for each scene, then there's a scenic objective that feeds the super objective. So I go, okay, if my super objective is, I want My son, to flourish, to bloom, to succeed on this island. Every action leading into that super objective has to be me going, I have to make this island and succeed. So it gives you this kind of focused zeal when the madness is around you. And that's what helped me kind of when there's kind of all borderline farcical madness around you, if you have this one driving force in your mind, it tends to. For me personally, it helps me kind of keep me slightly on this path, on this keel that I can stick to, and then it makes the playing of it more real for me, if that makes sense.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

It does. It sense makes, you know, it's your motivation. Right. So that's everything.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes, I said the N word. Yes. So that's what I. So that's what I. Okay, thank you. That's what I try and do.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

So on the horror front.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I want to start with just like a big premise which is, you know, film and our cultural touchstones say something about us and the moment that we're living in. And I think, you know, when superhero movies were really having their moment, we wanted things to be black and white. We wanted to be saved. We wanted someone to come and sort of make everything okay. And I think what this moment might be telling us is that things aren't what they seem. That there's things happening behind the scenes that are beyond our control and aren't particularly nice either. Yeah, I mean, why do you think horror's having such a moment? Have you thought about it?

[Matthew Rhys]

To a degree, but I haven't come up with anything as erudite as that. But I would.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Or do we just like to be scared? I mean, maybe I'm just giving too much of a thing.

[Matthew Rhys]

No, no, because I think it's interesting as to why there's this. Why there's this kind of wealth of horror that's doing well. So seemingly it's kind of more, slightly more societal than anything else.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Right.

[Matthew Rhys]

And I would agree, because I would have thought in these times of kind of such turbulence, you would almost want the superheroes more because you just need to believe in that kind of universal sense of justice, that something or someone ultimately will do the right thing or overcome the bad thing. But it is. It's this. You know, we're in this strange time of kind of constantly being, oh, my God, this is terrible.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Shocks to the system.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. That it's. The things we're seeing are horrific, but yet seemingly nothing changes or stops. So it makes perfect sense that we'd find it in Our fictional entertainment.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Do you think about the cultural moment when you're playing a role like this? Like, what it's feeding into how it might be received in the world?

[Matthew Rhys]

Well, the big conversations about Widow's Bay was like, how are they gonna take this? Is like there was a. We were always going by, are we gonna get this? What is this tone of. When I. My agent said, this is horror comedy, I was like, whoa, what? No. And then I read it and I was like, oh, that's. It was pretty great. I didn't think it was pretty great. I thought it was fantastic. And I was like, I know, I want to do it, but how is that gonna be received? Like, that could be. We could die on our asses with this one.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Do you know anything about series two, what's going to happen? Anything about the real mythology that you can tell people who are going to watch this and want to know?

[Matthew Rhys]

I can tell you wholeheartedly. I know nothing. And I'll say this much, I'm not even sure Katie Dippold knows. Cause they've only just gone into the room for season two. And I was like. I was texting, going, what happened? She goes, I don't know. So they're gonna sit down for a long time, try and figure it out.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

So this is one of my really big pet peeves as a viewer, which is we have to wait to know if a series is a hit before it gets picked up again. And then there's this long lag time, and by that point, you're kind of forgotten everything about the momentum and the thing that you liked. And you're seeing now all this reporting about viewer drop offs, you know, beef, running point, Netflix series. Because that happens. I mean, isn't there a better way?

[Matthew Rhys]

There has to be. Because this new model is crazy. And that's what everyone says. It's like, now we have to wait over a year for the next season. I'm of the same opinion. You watch one season and you're like, what? Wait, what? How long?

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Are you worried about losing momentum?

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah. Yes. I just hope those editors who do. Previously on Widow's Bay. You know, kind of just before we break season two, are reintroducing it, but that's not the best answer.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

All right. The Beast in Me was your other big hit this year. You're nominated for an Emmy for that, too. You play a super rich mogul who is suspected of killing his wife.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Have you thought about how much you're playing a character that's hiding something? I was obviously in advance of this interview, just going through a lot of your work in the Americans. Obviously you were a Soviet spy pretending to be an American and many other things along the way. Beast in me, you're a murderer pretending to not be a murderer of Widow's Bay. You clearly know more than you let on about what's happening on the island. Why are you drawn to those particular roles? And why do you keep getting them?

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, that's even more disturbing. I always think, when. When. When the character has something else going on, it just gives you so much more to play than something slightly shallower or more artificial. It just kind of layers it in a way that other parts can't. You. You've got so much going on, it sometimes in a way, takes you out of the acting, if that makes sense. You're kind of. You're playing so many things, you start, you know, forgetting about the kind of artificiality of it all.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I saw a clip where you were discussing the beast in me, and you said, menace and rage is where I like to live. And we had a big debate as to whether you were kidding or not.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Were you? But I mean. But if you look at your career, I mean, that's not untrue.

[Matthew Rhys]

No, no. I'm sure the kids will say that's where I do live. No, no, I was making a joke

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

because your upbringing seems to have been so happy. Was it? It was. I mean, you've talked about. It was stable and fun. You were out, you know, in the farm and you were out on the sea, and it just seemed like a lovely kind of time.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

You don't seem to have some sort of dark origin storyline.

[Matthew Rhys]

No.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And. And so I'm wondering where the attraction to darkness comes from.

[Matthew Rhys]

Right. So, like, those. It's in the shadows. The interest lies. I'm fir of that. It's like we're like, oh, my God. What. What's that about? What must be that like. And the kind of. Ray, you know, the rage stuff, you. You kind of go. I hate to say it, sometimes I find the rage stuff easy to fake because it's just sort of. It's sort of volume and passion. That's about it. And I think for men, it's. It's this weird little tap you can find quite easily. You know, you. You can fake that quite easily if you're just kind of passionate and loud enough.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Speaking of those dark and layered roles, I want to ask you about a role you played in the HBO Show Girls in 2017. Yeah, I just rewatched It. And it's an episode titled American Bitch. And you played Chuck Palmer, a famous author who'd been me too'd for taking advantage of younger women. And Hannah, played by Lena Dunham, goes to his apartment. Just giving the synopsis.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

After writing about the allegations and what follows is this incredibly complex performance. And again, you're playing this sort of charismatic, powerful, deeply manipulative person and you have this intellectual argument with her about the agency of women and what was really going on for you and how you have been misunderstood. And then at the end, you expose yourself to Hannah.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah. Physically.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Physically, yes, physically. Yeah. The look you give in that scene at the end is really quite something. I mean, it was amazing watching it again. Can you tell me what you remember working on that episode and what you understood about the character then?

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. And, you know, Lena was incredible in. In that she kind of. I hope I'm not speaking out of turn on her behalf, but she kind of explained what had happened to her. So it was drawn from truth. So she gave me this. The background to. To this. Where this kind of piece of fictional writing came from in a. In a very detailed way, which helped enormously. And then, which I've never done before, we rehearsed it like, almost like a play. We went to the location and rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed, which is utterly luxurious in television where you just. There is no time. So I just remember thinking, wow, we have all this time to get this right because it definitely needs to be

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

got right, especially at that moment. Right. It was the subject of a huge

[Matthew Rhys]

discussion

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

in that discussion with her. Were you trying to honor her memory or were you trying to be, you know, interpret the character in your own way?

[Matthew Rhys]

No, more exactly that. Trying to honor exactly what she'd written and kind of place it in a very real way. But also she was interested in the real discussion of it, that. That he couldn't just be villainized off the bat. There had to be some kind of true discussion or discourse within this event that kind of leads to it. She wanted the kind of push and pull of both sides for it to land in a very real place that ultimately then would hopefully pay off the ending a lot more.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah, I mean, it did, obviously, but what was that look? What?

[Matthew Rhys]

Because.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Because what strikes me seeing it now is that, you know, it was this moment in time where we were just starting to have the conversation about consent and power and abuse, and Lena and the show's creators talked about it, you know, in the after episode discussion. And talked about how they wanted the role to be nuanced. But watching it now, for me is just a straight up bad guy.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And.

[Matthew Rhys]

But to me, that's what the look is at the end. He goes, doesn't matter what we've discussed. Ultimately this is all I want to do. That. All that kind of quote unquote discussion and, you know, kind of back and forth is meaningless because once that happens. Cause ultimately that's all he wants.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah. You also got to choose a prosthetic penis in that role.

[Matthew Rhys]

I actually didn't. I was given the choice and I thought, I can't choose my own because I don't know, I was like, somebody else choose it because then I can't be judged about my choice.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Is that the strangest prop moment you've had?

[Matthew Rhys]

Without question. With. I've never encountered a tray of prosthetic penises before. And the prop master going, do you want to? Would you want to? And I was like, no, you choose just something like, spoke to Richard. The director went, why don't you. You pick. Pick what you think will help aid the shot at the end.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

After the break, Reese and I speak about starting to date his longtime partner, Keri Russell, while co starring on the Americans.

[Matthew Rhys]

Sometimes when we would argue, I'd bring that into the scene and the director's like, what is going on? You're meant to be getting on really well. And I was like, and vice versa, you know, so she's far more mature than me.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

This podcast is supported by the American Petroleum Institute. Energy security affects how Americans live, work, travel, and stay connected. America has abundant oil and natural gas, but resources alone are not enough. The country needs modern infrastructure like pipelines and transmission lines that can affordably and safely bring energy to families, communities and businesses. That's how to build a stronger, more reliable energy system for the future. Learn [e-mail] this podcast is supported by National Geographic's Lion. What does it take to become a real lion king? One cub is about to find out. For nearly four years, National Geographic followed a single pride of lions and a cub named Keo on an epic journey in this new documentary series from executive producers Jon Favreau and Mike Gunton and with music by Hans Zimmer. Lion premieres Wednesday, August 19th on National Geographic. Streaming next day on Disney and Hulu. Accenture is working together with the NFL to drive international growth by evaluating markets, developing audience insights and and creating new ways to engage fans in cities around the world. The NFL is building a Global game. And Accenture is helping make that vision a reality by striking the right balance between what makes the NFL beloved in America and tapping into the passions and preferences that make each market unique. Accenture, the official business and technology consulting Partner of the NFL, learn more at Accenture.com NFL.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Okay, we're gonna do a weird pivot because I don't know how to get out of prosthetic penises.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. No, it's tricky. Yes.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

So I saw a clip of you saying in Welsh, it's all downhill from here, speaking about your Emmy nominations, and I was wondering if, you know, give me the context. I mean, are the Welsh very pessimistic?

[Matthew Rhys]

Oh, my God.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

You can't just be like, I'm amazing, and, oh, my God.

[Matthew Rhys]

No, no. And I. I would attribute this to the. To all the Celtic countries. It. It's almost like an Olympic sport to. To take someone down once they think they're above their station. And, you know, I. My parents going, well, he. You know, he. He thinks, you know, what's my dad always say? God, if he was chocolate, he'd eat himself. You know, or he goes.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

He says that about you.

[Matthew Rhys]

You know, just about anyone who kind of slightly thinks they might be better than everyone else. I just think I do. Real Celtic characteristic that all the Celts have, like that. That anyone who thinks they're slightly better than the rest, it needs to be lopped at the le. At the knees.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rhys]

And. And I do also think that especially for the Welsh, we. We do have a wildly strong sense of pessimism coursing through our veins.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, it seems to be very at odds with the American idea of always be selling and. And in particular, yourself. I mean, do you struggle with your own success?

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah. I mean, yes and no. Because I think. I think what. I have this ongoing. I have this. I have the parrot keep saying, it's all gonna fail. Right. You know, it's all gonna go downhill. So I have that all the time. And. And this sounds a perverse name drop, but Tom Hanks motto is like, this too shall pass. And he says that about everything. You've been out of work for a long time. This too shall pass. You win two Oscars. This too shall pass. And all I remember is after doing the Graduate with Kathleen Turner, thinking I was just on an ascent, I was like, this is it. And then I was out of work for a long time, and I realized the entire journey is the rollercoaster. You're just up, and then you're down, and then you're up. So at this point, I know this sounds stupid, but I kind of go, this is just. It's a. It's a moment. It's a fantastic moment, but it's a moment.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

After the Graduate, you were going to join the military.

[Matthew Rhys]

I tried. I tried.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And they rejected you.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, because they didn't believe me, which

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

is really sad for an actor. You couldn't even convince the recruiter.

[Matthew Rhys]

No, I remember I went in, I met. I met. I met the sergeant, and he's like, you should come back next week and meet an officer. And I said, okay. Went back for the interview, and this officer was so suspicious of me, going, why do you want to join the military? And then, like, five days later, got the letter saying, thank you for your interest in the British Army. But it is sort of amazing that that officer was like, there's something not right about this kid. They like, I don't believe him.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Back to that Welsh pessimism.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, what do you think the biggest culture clash is between your American living self and your sort of Welsh self?

[Matthew Rhys]

I always admire, to me, the Americans have such confidence. But what I find in New York that I do sometimes is I fake this confidence because there's this kind of some. Some say it's aggressive. I find it, like, more confident because there's, like, this. And it's an honesty, too, that, like, you see it. It's like. It's like subway justice. You know, sometimes when you get those people, and it's not necessarily just men and women go like, hey, you can't. You can't sit there, like. Or, like, you know, give up the chair, or like, what? I remember going, oh, my God. People are like this. They're not just like those bit parts in movies about New York. The people are like this. And I found it's liberating.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And I, like, Do your kids have that American confidence?

[Matthew Rhys]

To a degree, yeah. Far more so than I did as a kid of their age.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Hmm. All right. You told the Guardian in 2014 that the most important thing to you was the survival of the Welsh language.

[Matthew Rhys]

Probably was then. Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rhys]

I mean, it still is. And I, you know, I grew up in the 80s when the language itself was threatened. And, you know, I remember the protest marches and the kind of, you know, trying to get a language bill and a language act and trying to, you know, one of the oldest languages in Europe, you couldn't open a bank account in the Welsh language. There was. It had no status.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I don't think I truly understand sort of the History of how the Welsh language and Wales in particular, was subsumed under sort of British culture.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. English. Yes. Yes. They're like, if we strip a nation of its language, we'll, you know, we can. We can dominate. And that's what they did. They tried to eradicate the language. But I think as a result of that, what the. What it did was create a fire in the Welsh say, you absolutely will not kill this language. And they fought it for hundreds of years. There was. My grandmother's generation, was the generation where they used to have the. Where the. The piece of wood around their neck, saying they wouldn't speak Welsh, you know, otherwise. It was called the Welsh knot. And this is. The English did well. They would turn communities on each other. So a child hearing another child speaking Welsh was allowed to put the piece of wood around their neck, and then that child, at the end of the day, would be flogged. So this is how they kind of did it. So there was a zeal to my parents going, this language will not die. It will never die, and we'll make sure it doesn't.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Hmm. You've talked about one of the reasons you find doing the American accent easy, but the British accent, the English accent hard.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Is because of that colonial baggage.

[Matthew Rhys]

Absolutely, absolutely. And that's when I feel the most fake, when I have to do a southern English accent, when I have to receive pronunciation rp. That's when I feel like, oh, I just feel

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

fake and also distasteful.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. I just sit. Because we used to grow. We grew up in our house mimicking that language in a derogatory way going, oh, yes, darling, do pass the cucumber sandwiches. You know, so the connotation of it was wildly negative.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Hmm. You're voicing Han Solo in the first ever Welsh dub of Star Wars.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, amazing.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Have you already done it?

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. Yeah. Okay.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

So please, please do a scene for me. Absolutely. Say something in Welsh while you're playing Han Solo.

[Matthew Rhys]

Oh, my God. Well, what was weird is, obviously they'd had to translate all these, you know, things that we'd grown up with knowing Star Wars. And then I was saying it in Welsh, and it was kind of like Pelador Kirchy. You kind of go, you know, it kind of.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

What is that?

[Matthew Rhys]

It's kind of like. It's like tractor beam.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Oh, okay.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, yeah. There were words I've never used before, and I was tripping on them, going, I can't even say it. And at the same time, it was this wildly familiar thing that I got to do. And I mean, it was so surreal. The whole thing was surreal. And then also you kind of go, I can't voice Harrison Ford.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

It's like, did you talk to him about that?

[Matthew Rhys]

No, I'm too scared. But in the same vein, I was so glad. This is what I would have wanted growing up as a young Welsh kid is to have these things that would be commonplace, like, yeah, we'll translate Star wars into Welsh. So it buoyed me enormously to kind of go, right, so there's going to be a generation of kids who watch Star wars in Welsh. Amazing.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I want to talk about Keri Russell. She's your partner. Thank God you first worked together in the Americans, which is just one of my all time favorite shows. What is it like to fall in love with your co star?

[Matthew Rhys]

I remember at the time going, oh, no, because I wouldn't advise it, you know. And back in my 20s, I'd done it and it had ended disastrously and usually doesn't do the job any favors. And I kind of went, I'm never doing that again. And then kind of in my mid-30s, the Americans happens. I was like, oh, no, this is happening again.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Do you question it? Because, because, you know, obviously you're playing

[Matthew Rhys]

a romantic partner, so you're going, hang on, you know, let's be very serious about this. And you know, Carrie had two kids and it wasn't something I was going to enter into lightly. And then sometimes you can't fight it, you know, it's ordained. It's going to be both of you. It was. And it was going to happen and it did.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I'm curious about this also because just when you are on this long running series and you're working with someone and you're romantically involved with someone, you know, usually our personal worlds and our work worlds are separate.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, is there any, anything tricky about having that merged?

[Matthew Rhys]

Wildly tricky. Because, you know, by the end of the Americans, she was pregnant with our child and I was trying to direct her pregnant. But yeah, I'm not good enough or mature enough to kind of. Because sometimes when we would argue, I'd bring that into the scene and the director's like, what is going on? You're meant to be getting on really well. And I was like. And vice versa, you know, so she's far more mature than me. So yeah, I found that hard. I really did. I struggled with it.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah. Would you work together again without quite

[Matthew Rhys]

100%, I'm always saying, but I Want to do something like Heart to Heart or Moonlighting, something like that. Although she'd probably want to be Bruce Willis.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Are you competitive with her? Because my husband's a journalist and he's not competitive with me, but I'm very competitive with him.

[Matthew Rhys]

Ah, brilliant, Brilliant. No, no. And I. No, I'm genuinely trying to think that through properly. No. And I think we're two very different people. And one, we have two very different attitudes towards acting as well. She has, I think, quite a complicated relationship with acting in that she kind of goes, oh, well, I. You know, I'm not. And she always goes, oh, Matthew's trained. I'm like, this is why it makes no difference.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

It's like someone having gone to Harvard and someone like, you know, and being successful and someone being, you know, journeyman and being equally successful.

[Matthew Rhys]

Right. And it's just either you can do it or you can or you can't, or, you know, you'll succeed or you won't. There's no by that point. Has no bearing what makes her a

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

great actor, in your view?

[Matthew Rhys]

I just believe her always, Like, I'm always there 100% with her. She can't. She. In a way, she always says, you can't fake it. So you're. You're 100% invested on the ride, then. And. And that, to me, is the kind of. Almost all of it for acting with me. If I believe it, then I'm off. I'm with you, and doesn't matter where we go. And I always believe her.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

How do you both organize your lives? I feel like men don't get asked this enough, which is why I'm asking you in the sense we always ask women, how are they organizing their life? And I'm just. I'm wondering, actually, as both actors, she's in the middle of the Diplomat, and that's, you know, an ongoing series, thank God. And how do you organize parenting and acting and all that stuff with children?

[Matthew Rhys]

Oh, it's like a circus. It's like a circus. We both have Moleskine planners. We don't do the calendar thing. Yeah. So we sit down with little nubs of pencils. That's how we do it. But it's. It is one of the hardest elements of, you know, the circus life. I keep making the joke. I'm like, we're just saving money for the kids, therapy when they're older. Like, they were never around. So it's hard. It's hard. It's plate spinning.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Have you ever turned something down so that Carrie could do it. Or vice versa.

[Matthew Rhys]

The one rule we kind of have, if. If. If there's a. A project comes along, we're like, I can't turn this down. Then we make it work. Whatever. Whatever it is. There are some. There have been projects whereby clearly a very quite impressive woman go, listen, this film is shooting, is. These are the days. This is the cast. This is the director. I go, I don't want to read it. Just turn it down. Cause I'd rather not read it. And go, oh, my God. But I know, like, she's in the middle of the Diplomat. I can't do it. So don't send it to me. I've done that a couple of times.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

But that's. I mean, that's.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, she's done the same, too, so, you know, it's equal in that sense.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

She's also nominated for the Diplomat. You're this real Emmy power couple this year.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, yeah. Emmy power couple.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Emmy power couple. That's gonna be on your plaque. Yes.

[Matthew Rhys]

Epc.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Epc.

[Matthew Rhys]

Ye.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, do you talk about it and have you gamed out the different scenarios? Because, you know, you won for the Americans. She didn't. She's been nominated eight times and has not won.

[Matthew Rhys]

I know, I know.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, do you talk about, like, she wins, you lose, you lose, she wins. What are our faces gonna do, you know, when they. When they pan to us? Immediately.

[Matthew Rhys]

I always make jokes. Like, I say, if you don't win this time, I'm gonna go, fuck's sake. She's like, don't do that.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, Jay Z does it for Beyonce.

[Matthew Rhys]

Right?

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, there could be a thing.

[Matthew Rhys]

Right. I should start a thing going, jesus f. Ing Christ. Like, if she doesn't win. No, we don't really talk about that. We talk about more the logistics of the night and which party you're gonna go to after.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Mm. Would you rather she wins than you? Like, if you.

[Matthew Rhys]

100%. 100%.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Okay. I saw Samantha Morton say recently she hasn't worked at all since doing the Odyssey. Yeah. And it reminded me of what we've just talked about, which is, you know those times in your life where you've had these fallow periods where, you know, you've had to sort of take the Tom Hanks view of, like, this is a moment, and two shall pass, and you have to take the long view of your career.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Has this moment right now where, you know, nominated for two Emmys really have the hot show of the summer where everyone's talking about it. In a Emmy power couple.

[Matthew Rhys]

The only PC. Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Have you finally, do you think, cemented your status with this, though? Do you finally feel safe?

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes and no. I know that's a terrible answer. I find myself at moments going, maybe I can relax. And then you kind of go, oh, that's the death knell. If you do. Do you know what I mean? And I've just been through it. I've been through the up and down so much, I kind of go, I'm never quite comfortable. And in a way, I think it gives you something. It keeps you a little bit hungry.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

What are you hungry for?

[Matthew Rhys]

Now, movies, to me are still the kind of the grail because we grew up watching big Hollywood movies. And I was like, ooh, movies. Do you know what I mean? They still have that allure. The Oscars still have the allure to me, because you kind of go, that's another echelon. You always think, especially with the awards, you think it'll fulfill something. Gaping hole that's been in your entire life. And you go, if I just win an award, it'll fulfill everything. And it does nothing. The. The kind of drive or the what you're. That whatever hole you're trying to fill is still very much at the center of your gut.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Is that why you continue to audition? I mean, you auditioned for a role and you didn't get. You really wanted to be in the Bob Dylan biopic?

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I mean, is that what drives the need to go and kind of still do that at this stage?

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. Yeah. And I thought. And also, you can't, like, if you want something, get after it, go and do it. Get it. You know, prove to them you can do it. I still. I still have the. I still. I was kind of relieved that I still had that hunger to go and go, I'll audition. I'm not. You know, I'll go, yeah, of course I will.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

But you didn't get it. How do you deal with rejection at this stage in your career?

[Matthew Rhys]

It's when they say. I was like, who got it? And they went, ed Norton. I was like, oh, okay. But terrible. It was like I'd had an audition for a little bit, and I didn't get. I felt crappy. Cause it reminds you of everything you used to do. You used to make yourself vulnerable. You give yourself all this hope, and then you'd be knock down. It was good. I was. I was. I got. I was. I was. Kind of enlivened me again. It kind of gave me a. I remember the hunger of your 20s, when you're like, I'm gonna get that part.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

All right, last question.

[Matthew Rhys]

Geography.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Exactly.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. Tell me, Finland.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Yeah. No. You talked about having this super objective right. In your work, and it serves your motivation no matter what you're doing. And I'm wondering what your super objective is in life.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yeah, well, I mean, we touched on. Because you keep thinking, if I just do this, I'll feel satisfied. If I just. If I win an award, I'll feel how superficial I'll feel.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

It'll validated.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes. And I'll fulfill something in myself. And I think ultimately it's to do a part where I can look back and I go, I'm satisfied with that. That's what keeps you moving forward is like, okay, when am I gonna do one part that I look at and go, I did it.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Your Hamlet.

[Matthew Rhys]

Yes, my hamlet at 79 years of age.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

And is there a super objective in terms of the way you live your life?

[Matthew Rhys]

Harking back to your first question about David Nimmin. I want to get to a place where I just feel confident and just kind of. I'm not faking that. I'm not faking the kind of, oh, I'm, you know, I'm happily confident that I genuinely feel calm and confident in myself. When will that come, Matthew Rhys?

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

I wish it on all of us. I don't think that you're alone in that particular struggle.

[Matthew Rhys]

True, true. Yes. Let us all that sail that good ship until we find it.

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

Until we find it. Thank you so much.

[Matthew Rhys]

Thank you for this invite and I've greatly enjoyed it. Likewise,

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

That's actor Matthew Reese. To watch this interview and many others, you can subscribe to our YouTube [e-mail] the Interview Podcast. This conversation was produced by Wyatt Orem. It was edited by Allison Benedict, mixing by Sarah Sophia Landman. Original music by Dan Powell, Alicia Ba? Itu and Marian Lozano. Photography by Philip Montgomery. The rest of the team is Priya, Matthew, Seth Kelly, Paola Neudorf, Joe, Bill Munoz, Eddie Costas, Amy Marino, Mark Zemel, David Herr, Gabby Contreras, Kathleen o' Brien and Brooke Minters. Next week, David talks with conflict resolution expert Priya Parker. In so many circles, in so many churches and so many families, we believe that conflict is close to sin.

[Matthew Rhys]

Right?

[Lulu Garcia Navarro]

It's immoral. And so in families, just literally shifting the belief that all conflict is wrong to actually saying the conversations we're not having is preventing us from deeper connection as a family can be a radical shift. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro, and this is the interview from the News York Times. JIRA by Atlassian. Where your team and your coding agents work from the same context. Try it free at jira.dev. that's jira.deva.