Dana Goldberg (2:21)

I'm. I'm shocked. After watching those videos, they didn't find a bullet from a Secret Service agent shooting another Secret Service agent. Four rounds shot off in the direction of.

Allison Gill (2:32)

Of those several police officers.

Dana Goldberg (2:34)

Of those three police officers and, and the suspect. And no one got hit. It is. It's a miracle. It's a miracle.

Allison Gill (2:41)

Yeah. And that doesn't mean that the guy didn't have buckshot and another Secret Service agent's bullet in his bulletproof vest.

Dana Goldberg (2:48)

That's very true.

Allison Gill (2:49)

Telling us about that because they don't want us to know how incompetent they are. But again, speculation. But now that he's been indicted by a grand jury, he will have the opportunity to enter a plea. I assume he's going to plead not guilty, but we'll see. He maybe he'll make a deal, I'm not sure. Up to him and his legal team. Also later in the show, I'm going to be talking with Carissa Valise. She has a new book out, came out April 21. It's called Prophecy. It's all about political power, AI prediction markets, but with historical analogs that help it all make sense. So very cool book, very cool author. And we're going to speak with her later in the show.

Dana Goldberg (3:25)

Fantastic. Looking forward to it.

Allison Gill (3:27)

Yes. All right, everybody, we have a ton of news to get to. Let's hit the hot notes. Hot notes. All right, first up from the time Senate Republicans have inserted $1 billion of your money for the White House East Wing security enhancements in the immigration enforcement funding bill, they hope to rush through Congress this month through budget reconciliation, setting up a political fight over the ballroom that President Trump has said would be financed with only private money. $0 to you in that crazy midnight filing by Todd Blanche after the White House Correspondents Dinner in this lawsuit that's halting construction on the above ground part of the ballroom.

Dana Goldberg (4:05)

You mean the tuff shed that they're putting above it?

Allison Gill (4:07)

The tough shed that they're putting above it? Exactly. The one, I guess, not made of chromium and lead and asbestos, which we'll get to in a minute. So the leaders of the Judiciary and Homeland Security committees on Monday released plans for roughly $70 billion in spending which would significantly bolster Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Border Patrol, Customs and Border Protection through the end of Trump's term, using a party line legislative process that can skirt the filibuster. Again, this budget reconciliation, we talk about it all. The A surprise addition to the measure, Dana, a billion dollars proposed by the Judiciary Committee for security work related to the White House renovation initiated by Trump. The measure doesn't mention the president's proposed new ballroom, which is being challenged in court. But Trump has insisted that a main reason for the project is to enhance security. He and congressional Republicans have escalated their efforts to defend the project after the attempted assault late last month at a journalism gala in Washington attended by Trump and has also previously insisted that the project would be funded through private donation. And Dana, do you remember that like midnight filing by Todd Blanche after the White House Correspondents dinner where he was like, it's going to be just only private Money, zero dollars to the taxpayers. Yeah. Now, Democrats pounced on this proposal signaling that they intend to make the ballroom a centerpiece of their opposition to the measure and their election year message. That the President and his party are not meeting the voters needs. Quote, Republicans are on a different planet than American families. This is Senator Chuck Schumer of New York. He said this in a post on social media. Republicans looked at families drowning in bills and decided what they really need was more raids and a Trump ballroom. Now, top Democrats also noted that consideration of the bill would put all senators on the record on a White House construction project that polls have shown to be extremely unpopular. Quote, just flagging that. Now everyone gets an up or down vote on the ballroom. That's Senator Brian Schatz, Democrat of Hawaii, on social media. Republicans are advancing the legislation outside a normal congressional spending channels because Senate Democrats blocked money for ICE and the Border Patrol in a dispute over the tactics and conduct of federal immigration officers. That fight shut down parts of the Department of Homeland security for almost 80 days because the Republicans refused to vote on it. Republicans had pushed the bill to be kept free. This budget reconciliation bill was supposed to just fund ICE and Customs and Border Protection. It was supposed to be kept free of any proposals not directly tied to the immigration crackdown to make it easier to get through rapidly to meet the president's June 1 deadline, but evidently chose to make an exception in the case of the ballroom. The Judiciary committee would provide 39 billion in additional spending and the Homeland Security measure another 32 billion for hiring, training and equipping new ICE officers and purchasing and employing new border control technology, including AI. And Homeland Security would receive 5 billion in a flexible slush fund for the border and fund the legislation that includes $1.4 billion for the Justice Department. None of the spending would be offset with cuts elsewhere. None of it. And the fact that it's just Homeland Security and Judiciary here, that they're the only committees doing budget reconciliation for the Republicans, says that they aren't looking to give any money for health care subsidies, child care, snap families, lowering costs, nothing. So, yeah.

Dana Goldberg (7:40)

And their insistence that this ballroom needs to be done before the end of his term. It's, you know, they're, I, you know, that's scary. It's scary. They're gonna, you know how unhappy the American people are, right? You want to know what's going to happen if they fuck with the midterms or they fuck with the president? That's why they want this bunker, so that they're safe from the American people when this country finally has had enough, because there's more of us than there are of them.

Allison Gill (8:07)

And the Times says that the Republicans can ultimately pass this bill if they hold together. But Democrats are expected to try to make it as difficult as they can by subjecting Republicans to politically tough votes six months from the midterm elections, including funding ICE on top of of the $130 billion for ICE and CBP outlaid in the big beautiful bill. This is on top of that. And a billion dollars for a ballroom that you promised we wouldn't have to pay a penny for. It's going to be existentially stupid for Republicans to vote yes on a ballroom bill as close to the midterms and ice and customs border protection.

Dana Goldberg (8:44)

I know. I feel like that's a rocky horn and ballroom bill. Okay, this is from the Times. Soil. Soil at a public golf course in Washington where the Trump administration decided to dump the debris from the demolition of the White House East Wing has tested positive for chlamydia. I'm sorry. For lead, chromium. Sorry, so sorry. Lead, chromium and other toxic metals, according to data released by the National Park Service. The data, which the Park Service published on its website last week, it showed relatively low levels of these contaminants in the soil at East Potomac Gulf Links. That one is not owned by Trump. I promise you that. Yet the dump raised questions about the decisions by the Trump administration to bypass environmental laws when it dropped truckloads of mud, rebar, plaster and other debris in the middle of a popular public golf course near the Jefferson Memorial. The president is planning a sweeping overhaul of the 105 year old golf course. Oh, interesting. Where generations have played in view of monuments and memorials at bargain rates that currently run about $42 for 18 holes on the weekdays. Well, Donald wants to transform it into a championship course, which would likely spell the end of any existing mini golf course as well as surrounding roadway that is popular with cyclists and runners. Two things he has no experience with. The soil test results have provided ammunition for the preservationist group that is suing over the dumping of debris. And that's also the broader takeover of the golf course. In its lawsuit, the nonprofit D.C. preservation League argued that the dumping was unlawful and possibly hazardous to golfers, community members and wildlife. And I quote, we knew that the demolition of the East Wing and the changes to the East Potomac were legally toxic. Now we know they're environmentally toxic as well. Well said. That's Norm Eisen, the executive chair of Democracy Defenders Fund. It's representing the D.C. preservation League and two area residents, in this case, as are Democracy Forward and Lowell and Associates. They found a few things in the soil. First of all, there was lead. Okay. Now, some of the initial samples also surpassed the amount of chromium, which is another toxic metal that would normally be found in the soil at that site, but it exceeded the normal amount. We have asbestos, most people know as a cancer causing mineral that was not detected in any of the initial samples. The initial samples, according to the interim report. I'm wondering where the interim report is coming from. That's all I have.

Allison Gill (11:17)

National Park Service.

Dana Goldberg (11:18)

Okay, then. I trust the National Park Service. Mostly it's under Trump.

Carissa Valise (11:23)

Mostly.

Dana Goldberg (11:24)

He's only mostly dead.

Allison Gill (11:26)

You got to look through their pockets and look for. Look for chromium. Yeah, chromium actually is the. At least hexavalent. Chromium was the stuff that was in the groundwater for PG&E. If you've ever seen the movie Aaron Brockovich, it's pretty gross. Ah, I. I like Norm Eisen's line. It. We knew it was legally toxic. Now we know it's environmentally toxic.

Dana Goldberg (11:45)

I know. It's so good.

Allison Gill (11:46)

Next up from the Times. The Justice Department has demanded the identities of every worker who staffed the 2020 election in Fulton County, Georgia, according to court records escalating an ongoing federal investigation of the 2020 vote in Georgia's most populous county that relies on false and debunked claims. The demand targets employees of Fulton county elections as well as volunteer poll workers who likely number in the thousands during the 2020 election. The demand, which came via federal grand jury subpoena, appears to be the latest effort by Trump and his administration to use their investigative power of the federal government to pursue false claims that the 2020 election was stolen, particularly aimed at black voters. Can we just put that out there on the table? Yep. With midterm voting underway in many states, including Georgia, the effort risks further undermining public confidence and sowing chaos among voters. That's their number one goal. It is not known what the Justice Department intends to do with the names of election workers. I'm going to interject here and say we can guess if you've ever heard of Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss.

Dana Goldberg (12:49)

No shit.

Allison Gill (12:50)

A spokesperson for DOJ didn't respond to requests for comment. Rob Pitts, who's the chairman of the Fulton County Commission, issued a statement on Monday calling the subpoena harassment and yet another act of outrageous federal overreach designed to intimidate and to chill participation in elections. He said, let me be crystal clear. Fulton county will not be intimidated. Earlier this year, agents with the FBI raided the election warehouse in the county, seizing physical ballots from the 2020 election along with other election materials. County officials have since filed a lawsuit to force the Justice Department to give them back. A ruling from a federal judge overseeing that case could come at any time. That's Judge Boulay. The county received the grand jury subpoena for workers names on April 20, according to the court records. The existence of the subpoena became public Monday night when lawyers for Fulton county filed a motion to block it. Its purpose is to target, harass, and punish the president's perceived political opponents. That's what the county's motion stated, and I couldn't agree more. The county board argued that the subpoena cannot yield any evidence that could result in a criminal prosecution because, among other things, the statute of limitations have expired for any purported 2020 election crimes. Get the fuck out.

Dana Goldberg (14:00)

Seriously.

Allison Gill (14:02)

The county also asserted that the subpoena requires the disclosure of names, positions, email addresses, personal Telephone numbers for 10 categories of Fulton county election workers. At a time when, quote, election workers fear for their personal safety, it would apply to volunteers, temporary poll workers, and even bus drivers who operated mobile voting locations.

Dana Goldberg (14:22)

Wow.

Allison Gill (14:24)

Now, in December 2020, Rudy Giuliani was working with Trump's his personal lawyer at the time, who's in critical condition in a hospital right now, went before a Georgia state legislative committee and made a number of false accusations against a pair of poll workers, Ruby Freeman and her daughter, Shay Moss. Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss won a $148 million defamation suit against Giuliani. That suit was later settled for an unknown sum in the current investigation into Fulton county, which began with a court ordered seizure of election materials from the warehouse. The FBI so far has not named any election workers, let alone publicly accused anyone of wrongdoing. The county noted in its motion that President Trump has for years obsessively propagated the debunked conspiracy theory that Fulton county stole the 2020 election from him, and he has made it clear that he seeks retribution against those who refuse to indulge his baseless claims. Now, the motion quoted a 2025 online post in which the president said, Ruby Freeman, quote, should have to pay Rudy back reparations.

Carissa Valise (15:26)

You.

Allison Gill (15:27)

And called for her and a top Georgia official to be prosecuted for the political crime of the century. No, the political crime of the century was the fucking coup when you attacked the Capitol on January 6th and tried to steal all of our votes, you piece of Shit.

Dana Goldberg (15:42)

Amen to that.

Allison Gill (15:43)

That's not in the Times article.

Dana Goldberg (15:44)

That's end quote. And from the and from the Post. The White House Counsel's office is giving private briefings the administration's political appointees on how to best prepare congressional oversight as staff begin to brace for a likelihood of significant Democratic victories in the November midterm election. This is according to two people briefed on the topic. I know I want to get excited, Allison. I do. God, my heart is just so broken and just so. All my hackles are up on my neck. Well, the roughly 30 minute briefings have included a PowerPoint presentation about how congressional oversight works and best practices for handling it. Sorry, that made me laugh.

Allison Gill (16:26)

You know, you have to explain to people who work in the White House how Congress works.

Dana Goldberg (16:30)

That's exactly what made me laugh. And that's according to two people who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk about this. Staff from the Council's office have encouraged political appointees to be very careful about what they put in writing and provided guidance for how to respond to congressional inquiries in a timely manner. And I quote, it's obvious to everyone that's very likely, said one of the two officials who attended a private briefing, referring to the possibility of Republicans losing at least one chamber. At least one chamber, everyone, come November. It was a sober eyed conversation. Guess they weren't having it with Hegseth or Kash Patel.

Allison Gill (17:11)

Sober eyed, that's great. Double whammy for Kash Patel. Yeah, it's interesting. Wouldn't telling government employees to not put anything in writing. That feels like obstruction of justice to me.

Dana Goldberg (17:22)

It really does. A little bit of a red flag Now a White House official, speaking again on the condition of anonymity to discuss conversations, said counsel's office, and I quote, has provided guidance to relevant stakeholders to ensure oversight compliance and that best practices are followed since January 2025. Well, that's a little too late. And the office said this is nothing new, by the way.

Allison Gill (17:45)

Oh, best practices like Pam Bondi's best practice burn book. Okay.

Dana Goldberg (17:50)

Yeah. But the more recent briefings, at least some of which have occurred over the past month, they've taken place in a very different context and have a strong overtone of the midterms, said one of the two people who spoke with the Washington Post. At least some staff members have considered the briefings preparatory. Given the growing sense across the Trump administration that the Republican Party is in a lot of fucking trouble and that the time has come to prepare for worst case. Scenarios. President Donald Trump's popularity continues to sag along with his skin under the economic strain created by the Iran war, among other key issues. Trump has acknowledged the GOP's electoral vulnerability, repeatedly saying in public appearances that the incumbent party hardly ever wins the midterms. He also has stressed the stakes of the races. And I quote, you've got to win the midterms, because if we don't win the midterms, they'll find a reason to impeach me. I'll get impeached. That was Trump in January.

Allison Gill (18:47)

Yeah. And he also has said stuff along the lines of, if we don't pass the SAVE act, we'll never win elections again. If we don't gerrymander, we'll never win. And the Iran war. Yeah. Among other key issues. But he has acknowledged that they're in a lot of deep shit. And do you hear the other day, he said it's because I'm not on the ballot?

Dana Goldberg (19:11)

Yep.

Allison Gill (19:12)

Yep. Okay. Sure.

Dana Goldberg (19:14)

The guy is so demented. Like, watching him talk now with anybody, his delusions of grandeur, his interactions with children, the fact that he thinks he's being funny and talking about all this nonsense. Sensical. There are so many signs. And the mainstream media. Charlotte Clymer was on a panel the other day talking about how Biden had one really disastrous debate and they wouldn't shut up about it for months. And they are. Their dereliction of duty right now with his. With his brain melting in front of the general public is just astounding.

Allison Gill (19:45)

It is. And a lot of that with the Biden thing, the reason it kept going on for months had to do with a handful of very rich Democratic donors threatening to pull their donation dollars from all Democrats across the board down ballot if Joe Biden didn't step aside. Yep. So it was a hit job. But anyway, we're here now and we have a lot of work that we have to do. And it makes me happy that the White House is preparing for the worst case scenario after the midterm elections. So we'll keep an eye on all that. And we are about to take a quick break, and then we're going to talk to Carissa Valise. I said she has a new book out called Prophecy. You don't want to miss this discussion. And we'll follow it up with the good news. Stick around. We'll be right back after these messages.

Dana Goldberg (20:28)

We'll be right back.

Allison Gill (20:31)

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Amanda Sturgill (24:00)

It's no surprise that newsmakers try to manipulate the audience. They want you to believe that they are the one holding the line, and they'll use any trick they can to get you there.

Allison Gill (24:08)

But don't let them fool you.

Amanda Sturgill (24:10)

Get Unspun I'm Amanda Sturgill. I've been a reporter, and today I teach future reporters to cut the spin and think critically about what newsmakers say. My podcast, Unspun, shows you how to know when you're being manipulated by the news, learn to spot the tricks, and how to make up your own mind about what's true. So so if you're tired of being fooled by the news, subscribe to UNSPUN today. Unspun because you deserve the truth.

Allison Gill (24:39)

Hey everybody, welcome back. So recently the Senate voted to ban its own members themselves from betting on prediction markets like Kalshi and Polymarket. The House and the executive branch have yet to follow suit, and as we know, our vice president, J.D. vance, is very close with tech giants in AI and surveillance. I think Palantir is donating a bunch of money to build the ballroom, which we also recently Found out is going to cost taxpayers a billion dollars if the budget reconciliation bill written by Republicans goes through. But today we're going to talk about all of this with professor at the Institute for Ethics in AI at the University of Oxford. She's the author of Privacy is Power, which was an Economist book of the year. And her latest book, which came out on April 21, is called prediction Power and the Fight for the Future. From Ancient Oracles to AI so please welcome Carissa Valise. Hi, Carissa, how are you?

Carissa Valise (25:35)

I'm well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Allison Gill (25:38)

Thank you so much for joining us. There's so much to break down here because I am tech illiterate. I kind of have a hard time when people try to explain what crypto is to me. So, you know, all of these cities and people fighting back, pushing back against data centers that process, all this artificial intelligence and how we're going to move into the future with this, particularly politically speaking, but also philosophically speaking. And I'd like to focus on the new book Prophecy everybody. It's available wherever you get your books. And you say that the algorithmic predictions are no different than old prophecies. Nostradamus, Oracle of Delphi. They can come true. They might not, but you talk about how they are a tool for control. So can we talk a little bit about that aspect of these prediction, whether they're old or new, even though the

Carissa Valise (26:34)

technology is very different? Actually, if you had spoken to a European medieval person and asked them about astrology, they would have said something quite similar to what we say about AI they would have said something like, well, it's our cutting edge method of making decisions. It makes predictions. It's a very technical and difficult discipline. It's very opaque method. The technology, again, is very different, but the political role it's playing in how we're using predictions to make very important decisions in war, in health, in the job market, even in the justice system is actually quite similar. And something that is very important to bear in mind is that predictions are never facts. They can be many things. They can be an educated guess, they can be wishful thinking. They can be an estimate, they can be a proposition. But very often they are power plays in disguise. And in any case, they're never facts because facts belong to the past and predictions are about the future. So what do I mean by being a power play? Well, when you analyze predictions as speech acts, you realize that they don't describe the world, they do something in the world. This terminology of speech acts comes from J.L. austin, who argued that some sentences are more akin to an act than an assertion. So, for example, when a public official marries two people, they're not describing the state of the world, they're marrying two people. Or when you tell your child to clean up their room, you're definitely not describing the state of the room, you are issuing an order. And when a tech executive, for example, says that tomorrow we will be using AI for everything and everywhere, they're not trying to figure out what the future is. They're trying to get you to act in a way that will fulfill their vision of the future. They're trying to instill in you the fear of missing out. And so when we listen to predictions and we interpret them as facts, what we're actually doing is obeying an order.

Allison Gill (28:34)

Yeah, I remember some of the predictions that Hillary had a 96% chance of winning the 2016 election. Now I wish that was a self fulfilling prophecy. It ended up not being that way. But talk a little bit about, you know, let's go to the healthcare aspect of this, because I know United Healthcare, for example, was using AI to deny claims, basically to review claims for denial or acceptance. The Department of Veterans affairs is going to start doing the same thing about reviewing a veteran's disability to assess that veteran for benefits. But it seems to me like the people writing these prediction markets are the ones who have a goal in mind already and are steering everybody toward it. So aside from the idea of if I look on polymarket and it says Joe Biden has a 90% chance, and then so everyone just sort of tries to make that happen and fit into that mold, we also have AI, I think, unethically using these tools to deny healthcare, for example.

Carissa Valise (29:40)

Yeah, so ancient Rome learned this the hard way, and they realized that there was an incompatibility between people believing in predictions and fate and the Roman Republic. And in fact, when the Roman Republic fell, it was partly because people started believing in fate, started believing that there would be an emperor and making that kind of come true, and the Republic never came back. So the stakes are very high. And in any case, when it comes to predictions, they distort democracy because however you interpret them, they push you into acting in a way that is not ideal for democracy. So in the case of the prediction about Hillary Clinton, many of the people who wanted her to vote, the implicit order there was don't go to vote because it's not necessary, you can stay at home. Right. And so instead of encouraging people to vote according to their conscience and do their duty as citizens. They invite us to do something on the basis of a claim that is not a fact. And when it comes to AI, it was fascinating to research this topic. A great adventure, because I had naively assumed that statistics was developed by mathematicians. Right. I mean, it's numbers, right? Wrong. Statistics was mainly developed by bureaucrats who had two main tasks to accomplish, actually three. One was to collect taxes, and so they needed to know how much people were earning and how. The second one was to facilitate trade. So once you have societies of strangers that are big enough that you have to trade with people that you've never met in your life and you might never see, you need some way to trust them. And so we often use numbers because we don't trust people, but we forget that it's people who come up with the numbers. And the third reason was to justify their own existence and their own jobs, because citizens don't trust bureaucrats either. And bureaucrats were a new kind of class because before that were kings and queens and, and royalty that had divine justification, but a bureaucrat doesn't have that kind of justification. And so they need to show you why they are deserving of being in their place. And so very often they came up with numbers to try to justify their existence. And we're seeing exactly the same thing. So AI is often used in these offices to justify decisions, but also to evade accountability. Because once the algorithm is making the decision, when something goes wrong, or when somebody gets discriminated against, or when people complain about something, people can just put their hands up and say, oh, it wasn't me, it wasn't him, it wasn't her, it was the algorithm.

Dana Goldberg (32:34)

Right? Yeah.

Allison Gill (32:35)

And I think it's fascinating how in your book, you tie these types of modern political things that we're facing to ancient times to. Especially interesting, you tie it to the Roman Empire just then because of the fixation that many of the broligarchs these days have on the fall of the Roman Empire and trying to convince everybody that it was because of immigration or the impurity of the, of the, of the empire that caused it to fall and not actually what caused it to fall. And I think also when you tie in the fact that there are a lot of predictions made through mass surveillance and gathering data on people. We saw Doge do this, take all of our IRS information, Social Security information. We saw it back in 2016, where there were companies who were hired by politicians to psychographically target people online and use those data in order to move the needle toward their Candidate. So talk a little bit about how mass surveillance fits into this. And I mean, the layers here, there's just so many because AI fits in with mass surveillance, and then mass surveillance fits in with prediction markets. But there's so much politics in it and there's so much bureaucracy in it as well. So talk about the mass surveillance piece of it.

Carissa Valise (34:00)

And that's partly why it's helpful to look at history, because it reminds you that we've seen this before and it allows you to learn from the past, but also because it's so far in the past, it simplifies things. It gets rid of the current politics that might be making the water a bit more murky or making things less clear. One great historical example is the Soviet Union that in many ways is very different from the kind of society we have. But actually you had these two machineries of surveillance and prediction, and they work intimately together. Because the only reason we are surveilling people and collecting so much data about people is precisely to predict. If we didn't have that use, we wouldn't bother with it. It's not that interesting to surveil people, but we do it so that we can predict what people are going to do and affect their behavior and react to their behavior, and often monetize that, but also for political reasons, try to sway their opinions and their votes and their behavior. And what is fascinating is how we have digitized this process, which in the Soviet Union wasn't. And by doing that, we scale it in a way that we've never seen before, which makes it incredibly dangerous. And in the book, I talk about surveillance and prediction as the two original sins of digital tech, because digital tech was designed in this way to surveil, to track everything, to keep a record. But actually, it doesn't have to be that way. We could redesign the digital. And that's why it's so important to think about how do we design technology so that it can support democracy and not distort it or erode it.

Allison Gill (35:48)

Yeah. So how? Well, I think this, like, top of mind is, you know, regulation and rules. And I mean, just like in the old industrial corporations of yore, we would put caps on how much they could pollute and we would, you know, regulate or deregulate, depending on. On which ended up being a better option for. For people and not just the few at the top. So is it kind of the same with. With AI tech, artificial intelligence and all that?

Carissa Valise (36:20)

I think that's part of the equation. I'm definitely in favor of regulation and we regulate every industry, so why not AI? However, there are two things to bear in mind. One is that sometimes it's better products that lead to better regulation. So we tend to think about the causal chain of just the government imposing a rule that everyone follows. But sometimes it's a company that does better than everyone else, and then everyone else ups their standards, and then the government says, oh, yeah, we should probably make that a rule. And so sometimes I'm hopeful that young people will want to innovate, because part of what we're saying is this AI product is shoddy. It's just not a safe product, and we can do better, and we deserve better. And so, yes, regulation, but it might come about through innovation, which would be a great way, because at the moment, regulation isn't working very well, and we're in a tight spot, and we can't just afford to sit down and wait. But the second thing is that that culture has an enormous impact on our society in what gets designed, in how it gets designed, how it gets implemented, what rules we design as well, and whether we enforce them. And so I would like people to feel much more empowered about this situation, because part of what the book suggests is that Toni Morrison is one of my favorite novelists, and she says of a psychic that his business is dreadful, and this anxiety about the future comes from a place of fear. And so when tech executives tell you that AI is going to destroy the world and you won't have a job and everything's going to be dismal and they're building their bunkers, that creates exactly the kind of an emotional environment that makes us most vulnerable to profits and charlatans. And so if we say, like, actually uncertainty is good news because it means that the future is unwritten, that we can actually do things about it. And that AI is such a bad product is actually an opportunity because we can do better. And if we enhance our agency rather than just bow to whatever these people want the future to be, we have a much better chance of having a better future ahead.

Allison Gill (38:29)

Yeah, we've seen that in action. For example, California and the carmakers setting emissions standards that the government won't set. But because we're the bulk of car sales in the United States, the car companies kind of fall into line based on what the people want. Right. So I think that that's very important to understand. And reading this book, I think, will give everybody an understanding of the umbrella of all of it so that they can better guard against it and innovate it to force Markets to use it properly. Right.

Carissa Valise (39:08)

Yes. And also be more hopeful about the future, because if we lose the ability to imagine a better future, how are we going to bring it about? And I am worried about how many dystopic projections about the future we hear in the public sphere. So it's also about being hopeful and also cherishing what we have. Sometimes when we're so worried about the digital and so focused on it and so distracted by it, we forget, for example, about the richness of the analog world, from paper books to the people we love to the place we live in to the ecological world. And if we don't cherish it and nourish it, we will lose it from neglect. So it's also a change of perspective.

Allison Gill (39:52)

Yeah. And I think that's sort of also prevalent in your book where you talk about the difference between preparation and prediction. Right. I mean, I think that's kind of one of the things at the core of what we can do, or at least what we can focus on, to not only just do better as a people or for ourselves, but to prevent that fear from taking over that leads to chaos. Right. So talk about the difference between it before I let you go. Between preparation and prediction. Yeah.

Carissa Valise (40:26)

So sometimes it might seem like we're doing the same thing from the outside, but when you focus on preparing, you're doing something very different than when you focus on prediction. When you focus on prediction, you're assuming that there is a future that is written and that you're trying to figure out the script. When you're focusing on preparation, instead, what you're acknowledging is that you don't know what the future holds, or partly you don't know, but you can partly construct the future, and you can build it in a way that makes you resilient to different changes. So one example that I love comes from Margaret Heffernan, and she explains how airplanes are the safest mode of transportation. And every time a flight takes off, you don't have a team of engineers trying to predict whether there's a goose that's going to impact the engine. That would be very unsafe and a very bad idea. What you do is you build the airplane to make sure that it can withstand such an impact, because sooner or later, it's going to impact something like a goose. And so it's a very different kind of framework. Another element that I talk about in the book that I really enjoy is comedy. It might sound superficial, but comedy is very important for democracy because it's a kind of defiance of power. There is irreverence in comedy, but also because there's creativity and because I think part of what we're getting wrong is taking some people too seriously. And of course we should take them seriously in the sense that there are people who are doing things in the world who are dangerous and we can't allow them to do dangerous things. But when they make outrageous claims, sometimes we take them too seriously. So I would like to also to introduce a degree of levity in the conversation of, look, you don't fight doom and gloom with doom and gloom.

Allison Gill (42:15)

Yeah, I totally agree. I've had so many conversations on this. You know, we've got Trump trying to get rid of Jimmy Kimmel and you know, Stephen Colbert and trying to silence. Took comedians out of the White House correspondents dinner altogether. Goes after art, you know, stops funding the National Endowment for the Arts. But especially back in 2024 when Tim Walls was like, they're weird. You know, I connected that to this old radio program in the 30s called Clan of the Fiery Cross where Superman defeats the kkk. And the way that they got that information was they infiltrated the KKK and like exposed how just weird they are. Like they're, they're just. It's comedy gold inside those meetings. And that's kind of how they took it down. Completely obliterated. Signing up like KKK signups in the northern states and pretty much ended it for. For a little while. It's back. But I totally get that comedy part and that we just can't take. We just. You can't take a lot of this stuff too seriously. And I think that that fits right in with the idea of their, you know, fear mongering predictions that are just over the top and designed to make you feel helpless and powerless.

Carissa Valise (43:31)

Exactly. And if you imagine a court in medieval Europe, if you went there and you wanted to know the truth, you wouldn't ask the astrologer, you would ask the jester. That's the person who will tell you the truth.

Allison Gill (43:45)

Yeah, 100%. Thank you so much. It's so fascinating to talk to you. I know I could talk to you for like another hour about all this, but we don't have to because you have a book that everybody can read and it's really imperative to get, you know, like I said, I'm tech illiterate. So this tying it into the prediction markets of yore and it really helped me kind of understand the onus of control and the M.O. that these folks are operating under. So I really recommend everybody get it. It's called Prediction Power and the Fight for the Future From Ancient Oracles to AI. It's by Carissa Villis. It's available wherever you get your books. I like to get them at small bookshops and I like to order 10 copies and put them around in little free libraries, so I suggest you do the same. Carissa, can you tell everybody where they can also find and follow your work?

Carissa Valise (44:39)

Yes, thank you. You can follow me on LinkedIn or Bluesky. Very easy to find online. I have a TED Talk if you want a bit more of a summary of the book. And thank you so much for supporting authors.

Allison Gill (44:53)

Thank you. And thanks again for coming on and talking to us about this, such an important subject. Again, the book is called Prophecy. The author is Carissa Valise, everybody. We'll be right back with the good news.

Amanda Sturgill (45:06)

It's no surprise that newsmakers try to manipulate the audience. They want you to believe that they are the one holding the line and they'll use any trick they can to get you there. But don't let them fool you. Get Unspun. I'm Amanda Sturgel. I've been a reporter and today I teach future reporters to cut the spin and think critically about what newsmakers say. My podcast, Unspun, shows you how to to know when you're being manipulated by the news, learn to spot the tricks and how to make up your own mind about what's true. So if you're tired of being fooled by the news, subscribe to UNSPUN today. Unspun because you deserve the truth.

Allison Gill (45:45)

Everybody, welcome back. It's time for the good news, everyone.

Carissa Valise (45:49)

Then, good news, everyone.

Allison Gill (46:04)

Good news, good news. And if you have any little bit of good news, it could be big, it could be small, just as long as it brings a smile to our face. Even if it's just to write in and say, hi, how you doing? Here's how I'm doing. We would love for you to check in. Maybe you have a good trouble suggestion for us or you've seen some great good trouble in your area you want to share with us. Or maybe you have a shout out to a loved one, tell us why your partner or spouse, tell us why they're so awesome or you know, tell us why you're awesome. We love self shout outs too. You can talk about how you've had a government program that's helped you or a loved one and you know, nine times out of 10, they're, they're Democratic government programs. But you know, maybe a Republican bill like M. Tala back in the 80s helped you out recently. We don't discriminate. You can send it into us and all you gotta do to get your stuff read on the air is attach a photo. A photo that'll bring a smile to our face. It can be your pet. We can try to guess the breeds in your shelter pup. It can be a random animal on the Internet, bird watching photos, which can be an actual bird or you flipping the bird to Trump buildings. We love those. It can be photos of what you're making and creating to keep busy and to keep your mind healthy. It can be your favorite signs at the last no Kings rally, your favorite meme, anything. Show us what you're painting, what you're quilting, what you're crocheting. Send it to us all dailybeanspot.com click on contact. First up is your good trouble. Good Trouble today comes from Brooke. Dear AG and dg, long time listener here who adores you both very much. I'm not sure whether this counts as good news or good trouble. Or both. First off, I've just started to work on my PhD thesis. I'm 54 years old. But life is what it is and sometimes it takes a while. Yeah. Amen. My focus is on the integration of primate conservation, primate welfare and primate advocacy. Basically bridging the gaps between scientists and activists who are all looking to achieve positive outcomes for monkeys, apes and other primates in all sorts of ways. A long term focus of mine has been the use of primates as pets or as performers. I've included a photo of Mario A. Do you want to guess his species, who I used to care for at a rescue center? He should never ever have been taken away from his mom and family, but that's what the primate trade does. Here's an action everyone can take. It's particularly relevant right now with the release of the Michael Jackson biopic with its CG depiction of Bubbles, Michael Jackson's pet chimpanzee, who again, never ever should have been put in that position. And here's a link to the Captive Primate Safety Act. It's been introduced multiple times since 2005, but it just never passes. Not that there's huge opposition to it, it's just not a priority. I guess the act, in Animal Welfare Institute's words, quote, would amend the Lacey act to prohibit the private possession non human primates such as chimpanzees, galagos, gibbons, gorillas, lemurs, lorises, monkeys, orangutans and tarsiers. I hope I pronounced a couple of Those properly. So we will have a link to that information in the show notes as well. I could go on and on about why this is needed. It's very much my thing. But the shortest version I can manage is that primates, no matter how much their, quote, owners love them, simply can never, ever thrive as pets. They're complex, intelligent beings, perfectly adapted to specific physical and social environments for which human families and homes can simply never adequately substitute. I want to encourage everyone to take a moment and contact their congresspeople and encourage them to ensure that this act passes this time. It's apparently stuck in committee right now. It needs committee approval and a full vote in the House and Senate. So contact your people directly or via organizations like the Jane Goodall Institute and we'll have a link to that. The passage of this act is possible and would be such a welcome piece of news in this horrifically dark time. Now, for good measure, I've included a photo of Claudius, rescue cat, and Mina the dog. Thanks for all you do. I listen every day. Mario is a blank. Native to and born in North Africa. Mina is apparently an dog, which makes sense. She came to us from a shelter in Bosnia. Claudius is a cat. I actually know what kind of monkey this is.

Dana Goldberg (50:14)

You do?

Allison Gill (50:15)

I do. I do. And it's a long and storied history of why. I know what a macaque looks like. But this is a macaque. I believe I could be wrong. And then let's see the dog. Oh, my goodness. Australian cattle dog, maybe? Sure. All right, let's see. Barbary macaque. Okay. And Mina is an Eastern European village dog. Oh, I forgot to take the Bosnia into account. Oh. Because I wanted to say not Australian.

Dana Goldberg (50:49)

European.

Allison Gill (50:50)

Yeah, Eastern European. The fact that they let in with an a n instead of a made me not say Bosnian.

Dana Goldberg (51:01)

Is that what it was? Is that what it was? Is that what it was? The grammatical clue was confusing.

Carissa Valise (51:06)

Thanks.

Allison Gill (51:07)

That's my grammatical clue. It starts with a vowel. Thank you so much for your good travel submission. We really appreciate it.

Dana Goldberg (51:14)

Brooke, I just scanned this one. I'm so excited to read it. This is from Pam Pronoun. She and her. Hello, beans queens. Dana mentioned an alternative event to the Met Gala that happened in Brooklyn on Sunday night. I can share some details about that event because it's amazing and my daughter actually attended. It's called the Debt Gala, and it uses art, joy, and generosity to erase medical debt for those left behind by the system, including people in the trans community, as well as families and others. My friend Peppermint. This isn't in this emission. Peppermint one is one of the hosts with. Oh, what is her name? Lisa. Oh, I'm gonna. The redhead on Abbott Elementary.

Allison Gill (51:55)

I know who you're talking about.

Dana Goldberg (51:56)

You know what I'm talking about. We're gonna remember. Allison will remember. By the end of the submission tickets were only $44. Could attend. Over the past few years, they have raised over $4 million to erase medical debt.

Carissa Valise (52:11)

Wow.

Dana Goldberg (52:12)

This year the theme was body of work. Now there are lots of drag queens there helping to make the evening magical. I'm including a picture of my daughter and her friend. Her friend's mother custom made the dresses, which are insane. Such a great cause and the perfect anti met gala event. Here is a link link to their website if people want to support them. It's the Debt Gala. We're going to have a link in our show notes for sure. For my pod pet tax. I no longer have a dog myself, but I borrow my neighbor's dog, Tigs, whenever I need a little puppy love, which is all the time.

Allison Gill (52:48)

Lisa Ann Walter.

Dana Goldberg (52:49)

Yes, Lisa Ann Walter, who is fabulous. She did a little bit of hosting and roasting, if you will, of Jeff Bezos. Called him Teemu. No, it wasn't. Daddy Warbox. What was it? Now I'm gonna have to look that one up too.

Allison Gill (53:02)

The guy from an evil guy a ball.

Dana Goldberg (53:06)

Luther. Lex Luthor.

Allison Gill (53:07)

Lex Luthor.

Dana Goldberg (53:08)

Yeah. Teaming Lex Luthor. Yep.

Allison Gill (53:09)

There we go. There we go. Give us five minutes. We'll work out any joke someone's already told.

Dana Goldberg (53:15)

I mean, for God's sake. Sorry, everybody. My brain. I'm like. Her name's Lisa. She told a joke about somebody.

Allison Gill (53:22)

Timu. Bald people. Lisa. Redhead.

Dana Goldberg (53:24)

You heard me.

Allison Gill (53:26)

I know. Hey, that's how my brain functions as well. Oh, my gosh. This. These dresses are amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. The Debt Gala. That's so great. Instead of the Met Gala. Oh, it's beautiful. Next up from Stephanie M. Pronoun. She and her hi beans Queens. I'm sure you'll get a couple corrections today, but I had a chuckle listening to you call it Pearland. In Texas, they call their cities after agriculture. Pearland, the good old land of pears. I think at one point you said Pearland, but I think you corrected yourself to Pearland. We also have Sugar Land and Sugarland and Grapevine. So I'm excited for Pearland and Mayor elect Quentin Wilts. We live on the north side of the Houston metro in Montgomery County. It's the fourth Largest county in Texas, but it is a Republican stronghold and my heart breaks for our May 2 elections. We had a special election for state senate and our candidate only got 25% of the vote vote. We were on the ground knocking doors, phone banking, running our Facebook accounts. And I was posting multiple times a day, making graphics, spreading awareness. We had poll greeters at every early voting location. And it isn't just the loss. It was the turnout. 5.96% of eligible voters showed up. The small good news I can share is our school district's bond to build new elementaries and high school. It passed. We tried to get it passed in November and lost by 100 votes. They presented it again and it made it. Anyway, thanks for always bringing the news. Our family, including the kids, enjoys listening to you. Hi kids. It's allowed me to have great political science and civics conversations with my children who I am homeschooling. I need to get a video and find a way to submit to you because my 2 year old little girl sings along to your opening jingle and I love it.

Dana Goldberg (55:04)

Oh.

Allison Gill (55:05)

For our pod pet tax, I'm attaching our newest rescue. We'd love for you to guess his breeds. He's now five months old, but this is a four month old picture. Okay, so he was a. He weighed 45 pounds. He's estimated to be 120 to 130 pounds when he's full grown. I'm also attaching a photo of sharing snacks with our two kittens. Two of our kittens.

Dana Goldberg (55:26)

All right, if that pup is that big, I'm gonna go. I see lab in the head and Pitbull. What would be the Great Dane? Great Dane or Pyrenees?

Allison Gill (55:35)

Yeah, whatever.

Dana Goldberg (55:36)

Something great.

Allison Gill (55:38)

Something big. Mastiff maybe, but big Giant.

Dana Goldberg (55:41)

I love mastiffs. Yeah, big dog. Big dog.

Allison Gill (55:43)

Look at you. Great Pyrenees, pit bull. Oh, Labrador. Shar Pei. And the rest is super mutt.

Dana Goldberg (55:50)

Nice. Look at these. Is there a harness on that cat?

Allison Gill (55:53)

Yeah, there is.

Dana Goldberg (55:55)

Okay. Yeah. I mean, listen, I know people take their cats out for walks all the time, so there we go. Thank you. Thank you for the submission. We've got Bonnie Huval. Think Robert Duvall and put an H in place of the D. You got it. Done, done and done. Bonnie Pronoun. She and her. Sorry to correct you. Don't be sorry, but it must be the pronunciations for so many place names in each episode. You generally do very well at it. Thank you. Pearland. Pronounced Pearland, not Peerland. It's a few miles directly south of Houston, Texas. Worked there for a few months in the late 1970s has a tiny airport for small planes. The road was so close to the Runway that an airplane taking off or landing could hit you if you didn't pay attention before driving across. I don't know whether it's still like that, but it was memorable. Quirk of the town. My pod pet tax is one of our dogs, Buzz, who thinks he's little at nearly 60 pounds. My wife describes him as having the body awareness of a carrot. I've attached what we are sure he is and what the DNA test says he is. We detected six breeds. This is what they say the the submitter says 76% Giraffe 96. 9% Pool Noodle, 6% Kangaroo 5% Canal Boat 2% Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm and flailing tube man. So there you go. I would say this dog looks like

Allison Gill (57:20)

a greyhound to me.

Dana Goldberg (57:22)

Yeah, definitely a greyhound. And maybe a whippet.

Allison Gill (57:26)

A couple other things. Greyhound Chow Chow. Because they're always hanging around watching.

Dana Goldberg (57:31)

For sure. For sure.

Allison Gill (57:33)

Let's see. Let's see what we got. Greyhound, Bedlington Terrier, Border Collie, Saluki and Whip it.

Dana Goldberg (57:40)

Whip it. So we got.

Allison Gill (57:45)

So we got 78% of this dog. Right?

Dana Goldberg (57:49)

That's impressive. Yeah, that is a passing grade in any classroom.

Allison Gill (57:55)

Now Saluki, I. I love Saluki's. I wouldn't have guessed that, but that that's. It makes sense now that I'm looking at it. All right, thank you for that. Next up, I'm T. Rex. Omg Allison. I just listened to your pl a n on beans talk and I have the perfect name. I've been working on something similar but broader for a while now. But the name I landed on is ufa. My broader idea takes a different path on the name, but the basic concept is un. Fuck America. It's what we gotta do. Pics are me and my then 3 year old grandson whom I'm raising and him as a napping baby with Buster. My best friend's good boy. Betcha you can't guess his breeds. Well, maybe one. Okay. This child is adorable. Looks like. What's the doge dog? The. You know what you're talking about.

Dana Goldberg (58:44)

I do and it does look like the dosh dog, but I don't know. An Akita mix, sort of Nikita Doge.

Allison Gill (58:49)

Maybe Husky, maybe Rhodesian Ridgeback.

Dana Goldberg (58:52)

Huh.

Allison Gill (58:53)

Let's see what we got. German shepherd and Jindo.

Dana Goldberg (58:56)

That's the one. Yep.

Allison Gill (58:58)

Yeah. Look at that sweet baby. And the sleeping other sweet baby. So cute.

Dana Goldberg (59:03)

Look at this. Next Sweet baby that happens to be a strawberry shortcake.

Allison Gill (59:06)

Hello, nurse.

Dana Goldberg (59:08)

Hello, nurse. Nurse. This is from Barbara Pronoun. She and her who is clearly flirting with us. Hello, beanie babes. Here's my silver or maybe crumb of good news. Sliver. Sorry everybody. Sliver or maybe crumb. See, I'm even up that joke. I made this very fancy cake today. No reason, just decided to try something new. Barbara, that looks delicious.

Allison Gill (59:29)

I want it.

Dana Goldberg (59:30)

It looks so good.

Allison Gill (59:32)

Strawberry shortcake.

Dana Goldberg (59:33)

It's one of my favorites.

Allison Gill (59:34)

Yeah, me too. I'm not a chocolate person. I'm more of a caramel, vanilla, strawberry, dolce de leche. Those flavors. Caramel, that kind of thing. Butterscotch. Yeah. All right, next up from Mark, pronouns he and him. Hi Ag. Don't get me wrong, I will eat chocolate anyway.

Dana Goldberg (59:55)

Yeah, don't take the wrong. Don't take that wrong people from Mark

Allison Gill (59:58)

pronoun C and him. Hi Ag in dg. I just finished listening to the episode and also with you regarding a project name for changing SCOTUS and I'd like to pitch Project Gatekeeper. According to Merriam Webster, the definition of gatekeeping is to restrict access to something of value such as information, knowledge or resources in order to exert power or control over a person or a group. Which perfectly describes SCOTUS's rulings contrary to popular opinion. Yeah, and human rights. Right. For pod pet tariff, I've attached a pick collage of our foster cats, Leo and Maggie. A tripod P A W apostrophe D. Ha ha. Five month pup sisters Cheyenne and Dakota. Oh my God. So you've got a tripod cat.

Dana Goldberg (60:42)

Oh my God.

Allison Gill (60:43)

Another cat sisters Cheyenne and Dakota, five months old. And our long term foster cubby Joe. Okay, that's a funny name. They are available to adopt at Animal Education and Rescue in Libertyville, Illinois. You can learn more about our adoptable pets@aear.org we'll have a link in the show notes. Thanks for all you do. You've been keeping me Sane since 2017. I look forward to seeing you and all fellow the Gumanati at the Beans Patreon gala in June.

Dana Goldberg (61:10)

Oh, nice.

Allison Gill (61:13)

Look at the beautiful babies. No, Dakota's a gorgeous little black and white puppy. The ears are killing me. Leo is a tuxedo baby boy cat. Cubby Joe looks like a beagle mix. Yep, Cheyenne looks like some sort of healer type sitch. And Maggie, look at. Oh, she's such a cute kitty.

Dana Goldberg (61:32)

This is a beautiful. It's just a beautiful group of animals

Allison Gill (61:37)

that Dakota puppy Is gonna go quick. That is an adorable.

Dana Goldberg (61:41)

Yeah, I think so too.

Allison Gill (61:42)

They all should get snatched up. They look fantastic. And I would also like to adopt that strawberry shortcake.

Dana Goldberg (61:49)

Absolutely.

Allison Gill (61:51)

All right, everybody, that's your good news for today. We really appreciate you. Thanks for stopping by San Diego. No, we really appreciate you coming by. Also thanks to our patrons. Man. You guys snatched up those free tickets to the to the event we have at El Rey theater next Tuesday, like in minutes.

Dana Goldberg (62:09)

Hotcakes.

Allison Gill (62:10)

Dang. Maybe we'll release some more in case. I'm not sure if everybody who wanted one got one. But, you know, if you wanted a ticket and you weren't able to get it, if they ran out, shoot us an email helloswmedia.com and we'll see if we can get you hooked up with a ticket or two. It's going to be amazing. Rufus Wainwright, Lisa Loeb, Andy Richter, me and Dana. John Fugelsang, Iman Jordan. Who am I missing? I know I'm missing somebody amazing.

Dana Goldberg (62:39)

We got Jean Smart.

Allison Gill (62:40)

Jean Smart. Queen Jean, one of my heroes. Have you ever seen hacks? Oh, my God.

Dana Goldberg (62:46)

Jean is the nicest human being too. Like, she really is lovely. Met her a couple times and she's just being in her presence is pretty awesome.

Allison Gill (62:53)

Them I was watching the hacks episode the other day where she was at the haha on Lankersham in north Hollywood. You ever done that club? Oh, God.

Dana Goldberg (63:03)

Haha club. If anyone listens and owns the place, for sure.

Allison Gill (63:06)

Like, I'm friends with Jack. He knows I'm giving a But like, it's not the place. It's the kind of. It's the kind of dude. And the host of the comedy show was like, this guy brought Jean smart up and he's like, hey, something about tits and grabbing ass.

Dana Goldberg (63:20)

Oh, my God.

Allison Gill (63:21)

Being that kind of dude. And Jean smart gets on stage and she's like, how much money would it take for you to never get on stage again?

Dana Goldberg (63:31)

And she gave him $1.69 million.

Carissa Valise (63:35)

Oh, my God.

Allison Gill (63:36)

He asked for. He goes, $69 million, you know, and she goes, you know What? How about $1.69 million? And they shook hands. And so now he can never go on stage again and be a misogynistic prick. And I was like, I felt it in my soul. Do you know how many times I've been brought up as a comedian like that on stage? Imagine that, a funny woman. Oh, here she comes. You know, whatever.

Dana Goldberg (64:00)

Yeah.

Allison Gill (64:02)

Anyway, love Jean Smart. Looking forward to getting to meet her. I always say, meet your Heroes. I know people say, don't do that,

Dana Goldberg (64:09)

but oh, no, me too. I have not been disappointed yet.

Allison Gill (64:12)

Me neither. Me neither. All right, everybody, we'll be back in your ears tomorrow. Go check out Beans Talk today at the MSW Media YouTube channel. It's free to watch. You can see our lovely faces. We'll be there. Any final thoughts before we get out of here? I know you got a couple shows coming up.

Dana Goldberg (64:27)

I do. I've got Dallas on Sunday. There's still some tickets available. If you're catching this late and you're like, I didn't know she was gonna be in Dallas. Don't worry about it. Go to danagoldberg.com hit my tour schedule. You can still get tickets. Super reasonable. I think they're like $26 or something like that. And then on the 17th, I'm gonna be in Rochester, New York. I know a lot of you already got your tickets and I would love to see more faces there. That is the 17th. It's also a Sunday show and I'm gon doing a talk back after the show with no one other than Bea Esper from Under the Desk News.

Allison Gill (64:57)

Love, Vy.

Dana Goldberg (64:58)

Yeah, me too. They are awesome.

Allison Gill (65:00)

Yep. Absolutely. And I want to go to that show.

Dana Goldberg (65:05)

I know, I know. If it wasn't so far away, I'd be like, come on.

Allison Gill (65:09)

I know. It's like a whole.

Dana Goldberg (65:10)

And Rochester's not easy to get to if you're not in the air.

Allison Gill (65:14)

Six hour plane ride and a two hour drive. Yeah, yeah. But it's going to be an incredible, incredible show. So everybody grab your tickets while they're still available. All right, my friends, we'll be back on your ears tomorrow. Until then, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health and take care of your family. I've been ag.

Dana Goldberg (65:29)

I've been dg.

Allison Gill (65:30)

And them's the beans. The Daily Beans is written and executive produced by Allison Gill with additional research and reporting by Dana Goldberg. Sound design and editing is by Desiree McFarlane with art and web design by Joel Reeder with Moxie Design Studios. Music for the Daily Beans is written and performed by they Might Be Giants and the show is a proud member of the MSW Media Network, a collection of creator owned podcasts dedicated to news, politics and justice. For more information Please visit msw media.com MSW Media. Hi, I'm Frances Collier.

Dana Goldberg (66:04)

And I'm Angela V. Shelton.

Allison Gill (66:05)

And we're Frangela. You know what you need in your

Dana Goldberg (66:08)

life the Final Word podcast.

Allison Gill (66:11)

Yes, you do. That's right.

Dana Goldberg (66:12)

It is the final word on all

Allison Gill (66:14)

things political and pop cultural, where we make real news, real funny, where we inspire you so you can hashtag resist, subscribe and get a new episode of the Final Word podcast each week.

Dana Goldberg (66:25)

It's the news we think you need to hear. That's right. We think you need to hear it. Okay.

Carissa Valise (66:30)

Yeah.

Allison Gill (66:31)

It's what we say, so.

Dana Goldberg (66:32)

That's right. And because all we do is give.

Allison Gill (66:34)

Every Thursday, you can listen to our

Dana Goldberg (66:35)

hysterical podcast, idiot of the Week.

Allison Gill (66:38)

We round up the stupid. Because you know what? Somebody has to. Okay. All we do is give.