Refried Beans | A Brazen Scheme (feat. Rep. Jamie Raskin) | Jul 26, 2022

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Beans – "Refried Beans | A Brazen Scheme (feat. Rep. Jamie Raskin)"

Release Date: July 27, 2025
Original Episode Date: July 26, 2022
Host: Alison Gill
Guest: Representative Jamie Raskin
Produced by: MSW Media

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Overview

In this episode of The Daily Beans, hosted by Alison Gill, significant political and legal developments from July 26, 2022, are dissected with a special focus on the Department of Justice's (DOJ) ongoing investigations related to former Vice President Mike Pence and efforts to subvert the 2020 election results. The episode features an in-depth interview with Representative Jamie Raskin, a key figure in the January 6th Select Committee and author of Trauma, Truth and the Trials of American Democracy. Additionally, the show includes a heartwarming "Good News" segment highlighting positive community stories from listeners.

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Main News Highlights

DOJ Broadens Investigation on Pence’s Advisers:
Alison Gill opens the episode by detailing the DOJ's expanded investigation into Mike Pence's advisors, Mark Short and Greg Jacob. Both individuals were subpoenaed to appear before a federal grand jury in Washington, D.C., as part of the probe into efforts to undermine the 2020 election results. The investigation scrutinizes the January 4th Oval Office meeting where attorney John Eastman proposed that Pence reject electoral votes or suspend the certification process.

Key Developments:

• Subpoenas Issued: Both Short and Jacob’s grand jury appearances indicate a deepening inquiry into the alleged attempts to disrupt the electoral process.
• Eastman’s Admission: During testimony, Eastman acknowledged that his proposals violated the Electoral Count Act but persisted for political gain. Greg Jacob emphasized during the podcast, “[...][...] is like big.” [04:00]
• Legal Implications: A federal judge previously determined that Eastman and Trump likely committed felonies (1512 and 371) in their efforts to block the election.

Anti-Competitive Practices in Poultry Industry:
The DOJ filed a significant antitrust lawsuit against major poultry producers, including Cargill and Sanderson Farms. The suit alleges that these companies engaged in unlawful information exchanges about wages and benefits, violating the Sherman Act. Proposed consent decrees aim to prevent such practices and impose restitution for affected workers.

Other Notable News:

• Fani Willis and Senator Burt Jones: A Georgia judge barred DA Fani Willis from investigating Senator Burt Jones due to conflicts of interest, as Willis had financial ties to Jones's political campaign. [11:50]
• Elaine Luria’s Revelation: Representative Elaine Luria released a video showcasing edited drafts of Trump's January 7th remarks, revealing what Trump chose not to say during his address post-Capitol riot. Ivanka Trump’s edits suggested a shift from calling for justice to hinting at pardons. [09:15]

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Interview with Representative Jamie Raskin

Introduction:
Alison Gill welcomes Jamie Raskin, Maryland's 8th District Representative, highlighting his role as a lead impeachment manager during Trump's second impeachment and his contributions to the January 6th Select Committee.

Discussion Points:

1. DOJ’s Criminal Investigation and Accountability:

   • Comprehensive Probe: Raskin underscores the magnitude of the DOJ's investigation, mentioning over 850 prosecutions related to the Capitol riot, including charges like seditious conspiracy.

     “The DOJ is involved in the most sweeping and comprehensive criminal investigation in its history.” [16:41]

   • Criteria for Prosecution: He elaborates on the DOJ’s criteria for charging individuals, emphasizing the gravity of offenses and the necessity to deter future misconduct.
   • Impeachment and Accountability: Raskin discusses the importance of holding high-ranking officials accountable, asserting that neglecting this responsibility undermines democratic institutions.

2. Relationship Between the January 6th Committee and the DOJ:

   • Arm’s Length Operations: Raskin explains that while the committee and DOJ investigations run parallel, they maintain independence to ensure unbiased outcomes.

     “It's an arm's length relationship. [...] We're assembling materials for a report to Congress and American people.” [21:51]

   • Non-Coordination: He clarifies that there’s no direct coordination, ensuring that the DOJ’s prosecutorial processes remain unaffected by legislative inquiries.

3. Challenges in Prosecuting High-Profile Figures:

   • Contempt of Congress Cases: Raskin highlights instances where individuals like Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro refused to cooperate with the committee, leading to contempt charges.

     “You can't just think in your mind you're somehow above the process and stay home on the couch.” [22:53]

   • Impeachment Post-Office: Addressing the possibility of impeaching former presidents, Raskin affirms that historical precedents support such actions, despite Senate procedural challenges.

     “There are more than two centuries of precedent that are on your side...” [25:28]

4. Personal Trauma and National Healing:

   • Parallel Healing Processes: Discussing his memoir, Raskin draws parallels between personal trauma—such as the loss of his son and experiencing the Capitol riot—and the national trauma inflicted by political violence.

     “The pathway to recovery [...] is to talk about it to a lot of people, to try to deal with the truth of these realities.” [27:31]

   • Role of Community and Support: He emphasizes the importance of community support in overcoming trauma, sharing how figures like Nancy Pelosi provided him with the strength to continue his work.

Concluding Remarks: Raskin advocates for not ignoring the severe breaches of democracy witnessed and underscores the necessity of defending democratic institutions against future threats.

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Good News Segment

Alison Gill transitions to the uplifting "Good News" segment, featuring submissions from listeners celebrating personal achievements and community contributions.

Highlights:

1. Jonathan’s Community Service:

   • Voter Registration Effort: Jonathan shares pride in leading a leadership training program that registered 850 new U.S. citizens to vote.

     “My dad said living in Texas, it can get uncomfortably warm in June, July and August when temps top 100 degrees...” [33:00]

2. Kerry’s Youth Baseball Coaching:

   • Positive Impact on Youth: Kerry recounts coaching a troubled youth whose life was positively transformed through baseball, highlighting the importance of individualized mentorship.

     “He is now a successful college student. He told me that I was a big part in turning his life around.” [38:10]

3. Anonymous’s Familial Pride:

   • Military Service Recognition: An anonymous mother celebrates her son's achievements, including his service in the Marine Corps and academic successes.

     “Thank you for being two of the smartest and funniest ladies in the pod world.” [39:15]

4. Heller Pronoun’s Inclusive Advocacy:

   • Pronoun Education for Youth: Heller shares a touching story about her child advocating for correct pronoun usage among peers, promoting inclusivity and understanding.

     “Poppy, who cares?... It's they, not he.” [40:00]

5. Steven’s Roller Derby Enthusiasm:

   • Supporting LGBTQ+ Friendly Sports: Steven details his daughter’s involvement in roller derby, emphasizing the sport’s role in building confidence and fostering an inclusive environment.

     “It's a very inclusive sport and it's great for giving young people confidence in what their bodies can do...” [40:25]

Closing of Good News:
Alison Gill expresses heartfelt appreciation for the community's positive stories, reinforcing the podcast’s commitment to highlighting both the struggles and triumphs of its listeners.

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Conclusion

The episode of The Daily Beans effectively balances heavy political discourse with uplifting community stories, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of significant national events and personal triumphs. Representative Jamie Raskin’s insights offer a deep dive into the complexities of judicial investigations and the imperative of maintaining democratic integrity. Meanwhile, the "Good News" segment serves as a beacon of hope, showcasing the resilience and positivity within the community.

Notable Quotes:

• Greg Jacob on DOJ Investigation:

  “This is like big. I just keep repeating it because it's big.” [06:15]

• Jamie Raskin on Accountability:

  “The DOJ is involved in the most sweeping and comprehensive criminal investigation in its history.” [16:41]

• Raskin on Trauma and Healing:

  “The pathway to recovery [...] is to talk about it to a lot of people...” [27:31]

• Listener Poppy on Pronouns:

  “Poppy, who cares? It’s they, not he.” [40:00]

This episode serves as a vital resource for staying informed about intricate political and legal matters while also celebrating the everyday heroes within the listener community.

Transcript

[Alison Gill]

MSW Media. Hey, everybody, it's Ag. And welcome to Refried Beans, where we play an episode of the Daily Beans podcast from the same week either one, two or three years ago so we can see how far we've come. So please enjoy this episode from days gone by and note the date in the intro. Refried beans. I like refried beans. That's why I want to try fried beans, because maybe they're just as good and we're wasting time. Jelly beans. Jelly beans. Jelly beans. Jelly beans. Hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Tuesday, July 26, 2022. Today, the Department of Justice has broadened its investigation again by putting Pence's chief of staff Mark Short and legal counsel Greg Jacob in front of a federal grand jury. The committee releases new evidence about what Trump didn't want to say during his January 7 address. Fulton County DA Fani Willis is disqualified from investigating one Georgia state senator because of conflicts of interest. Jamie Raskin answers questions about coordination between the Department of justice and the 16 Committee. And the Justice Department has filed a lawsuit against some of the biggest poultry producers in the US over long standing deceptive and abusive practices against workers. I'm your host, Alison Gill. Whoo. That was a heck of an intro. We have a lot of news today. Big, big breaking news. And I'm proud to announce Maryland eighths Rep. Jamie Raskin will join me today to discuss the committee, the Department of Justice, and his book, Trauma, Truth and the Trials of American Democracy. Very much looking forward to that conversation. But first, we have a ton of news to get to, so let's hit the hot notes. Hot notes. All right, everybody. The Justice Department has pressed top advisors to Mike Pence in recent weeks about efforts to subvert the election by several lawyers and Donald Trump himself. And that's according to people familiar with the matter. As prosecutors escalate their 18 month Capitol riot probe, two senior advisors to the former vice president, that's Mr. Pence's chief of staff Mark Short, and legal counsel Greg Jacob appeared before a federal grand jury under subpoena in Washington, D.C. in connection with the investigation. One area of interest to prosecutors was the January 4th Oval Office meeting where conservative lawyer John Eastman pushed Pence in Trump's presence to either reject the electoral votes outright or suspend the proceedings and ask several state legislatures to reexamine the results. Something else Mark Short knows, by the way, is that Meadows seemed to acknowledge that this plot and this to, you know, to pressure Mike Pence and to throw electors out was illegal. Last month, Jacob testified at length before the January 6 congressional committee about that meeting, which included Trump, Pence, Short, Eastman and Jacob. During the meeting, Eastman admitted his proposals would violate the law but wanted to go with it anyway. That's according to Greg Jacob, who just last week sat before a federal grand jury subpoenaed by the Department of Justice. This is like big. I just keep repeating it because it's big. I tweeted it out and so many people thought that I was saying that the committee talked to him. No, no, no federal grand jury. During that meeting on the fourth, I think I raised the problem that both of Mr. Eastman's proposals would violate several provisions of the Electoral Count Act. Mr. Eastman acknowledged that was the case that even when he viewed as a more politically palatable option, would violate several provisions. A lawyer for Eastman didn't respond to requests for comment from the Wall Street Journal. A federal judge last year found that Eastman and Trump more likely than not committed a felony in their efforts to block the 2020 elections. Two felonies, in fact. 1512 and 371. We've talked about them forever. Prosecutors also apparently asked the two about Rudy Giuliani, who forwarded letters from individual state legislators to Pence's office urging him to accept false slates of electors claiming Trump won from states he actually lost. A lawyer for Giuliani did not respond to requests for comment either. Mr. Short appeared under subpoena before a federal grand jury in Washington last week, according to people familiar with the matter. Television cameras captured him leaving the courthouse alongside his attorney, Emmett Flood. Kind of makes you wonder who else they missed coming in and going out. The only reason they were there was because of Bannon. ABC News first reported the grand jury appearance. Top DOJ leaders and prosecutors on the case have said they are not taking cues from the congressional inquiry, its widely televised hearings, et cetera, stressing that their investigation is operating separately. But as the grand jury subpoenas of these two show, they clearly show the two investigations at times appear to be following similar tracks, which is not weird. 40 people who used to work at the Department of Justice are assisting the committee. In recent months, prosecutors have focused on two discrete prongs beyond the violence of that day. One involves the submission of fake electors from Mr. Trump, which some of the former president's allies used to pressure Pence. The other involves an investigation into alleged efforts by Clark, former Justice Department environmental lawyer, who pushed the agency to help revise Trump's defeat by promoting his false claims of election fraud. Both Eastman and Clark have denied wrongdoing the Interviews with Pence's advisors suggest prosecutors are targeting a senior circle of Trump associates who pushed for the former vice president to accept the false documents and halt the certification of Biden's victory in the multi pronged investigation. Last month, federal agents seized Eastman's phone as he was leaving a restaurant. Prosecutors earlier issued subpoenas seeking information about unauthorized pro Trump electors and communications about any efforts to serve as a Trump elector with at least nearly 30 people, including Eastman and Giuliani and other conservative activists. Mr. Short told the Washington Post in January that Mr. Giuliani had shared letters from state legislators objecting to Biden's electors and saying those in favor of Trump should be accepted Instead. He told the newspaper that he and Mr. Pence's legal counsel reviewed the letters and found no legal basis to recognize the Trump electors who had not been certified by their states. This is hugely, hugely significant, especially given the DOJ put these two in front of a grand jury and didn't simply interview them. These aren't FBI 302s. This is a grand jury probe and it indicates the scope of the DOJ investigation into Trump's coup is wider than previously thought. We know people were complaining loudly that he should be doing a hub and spoke investigation. This kind of shows that he is. We knew they were investigating the fraudulent elector scheme as well as the boots on the ground attack on the Capitol. We knew they were investigating Sidney Powell, Rudy, the 15 boxes of top secret documents, and perhaps even Trump's obstruction of Congress and then also some of the other fundraising VIP rally goers, rally organizers, I mean people in the executive and members of Congress who tried to impede the electoral count. But now we can add the Pence pressure conspiracy to that list as well. Additionally, since there were hordes of reporters, as I said, camped outside of the courthouse for Bannon that day and they saw Short and Jacob but couldn't confirm it until Monday. That indicates that it's not going to be readily apparent when friendlies testify before Garland grand juries. Also for main justice today, the DOJ filed a civil antitrust lawsuit in the District of Maryland against a data consulting firm and its president as well as three poultry processors to end long running conspiracies to exchange information about wages and benefits for poultry processing plant workers and collaborate with their competitors on compensation decisions that violates the Sherman Act. Remember that old thing? The lawsuit also alleges that two of the poultry processors violated the packers and Stockyards act by engaging in deceptive practices associated with the tournament system, which pits chicken growers against each other to determine their compensation. At the same time, the Department filed proposed consent decrees with defendants Weber, Meng, Saul and Company, WMS and its president, G. Jonathan Meng, as well as Cargill, Cargill Meat Solutions Corporation, Sanderson Farms and Wayne Farms. Through a brazen scheme to exchange wage and benefit information, these poultry processors stifled competition and harmed a generation of plant workers who faced demanding and sometimes dangerous conditions to earn a living. That's principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Doha Mekhi for the Justice Department's Antitrust Division. Today's actions puts companies and individuals on notice. The Antitrust Division will use all of its viable and available legal authorities to address anti competitive conduct that harms consumers, workers, farmers and other American producers. If approved by the court, the proposed consent decree with data consulting firm WMS would ban WMS from providing surveys or other services that facilitate the sharing of competitively sensitive information in an industry they were coordinating. Jonathan Meng, WMS's president, is also subject to the terms of the consent decree in his individual capacity. The proposed consent decree with defendant poultry processors Cargill, Sanderson and Wayne would prohibit them sharing competitively sensitive information about poultry processing plant workers. Compensation. It would also impose on the poultry processors a court appointed compliance monitor who for the next decade will ensure their compliance with the terms of the decree. It would grant a court appointed monitor broad authority to ensure their compliance with all federal antitrust laws as they relate to their poultry processing facilities, workers at their plants, chicken growers, integrated poultry feed hatcheries, transportation of poultry and poultry products and the sale of poultry, and submit regular reports on the processor's antitrust compliance. It would also permit the Antitrust division to inspect the facilities and interview their employees to ensure compliance. And it would require the companies to commit to pay $84.8 million collectively in restitution for poultry processing plant workers who were harmed by the information exchange conspiracy. These terms would expire 10 years after the consent decree is approved by the court. Additionally, the proposed consent decree with Sanderson Farms and Wayne Farms would resolve alleged violations of the packers and Stockyards act, which prohibits, among other things, deceptive practices in poultry markets. As alleged in the complaint, poultry processors use a tournament system to adjust a chicken grower's base pay based on how well the grower performs relative to other growers they grade on a curve that is illegal. The poultry processors, however, control nearly all the key inputs, including the chicks delivered to the growers and their feedback that often determines their success in allocating this financial risk to their growers. Sanderson Farms and Wayne Farms failed to provide information that would have allowed their growers to evaluate and manage their own financial risks. This proposed consent decree would prevent Sanderson and Wayne from penalizing chicken growers by reducing their base pay as a result of relative performance, while still allowing for incentive, bonus and other types of payments to growers. It would require expanded information disclosure in grower contracts consistent with the proposed transparency rules set out by the usda. And it would prohibit retaliation against growers who raise antitrust concerns with the court appointed compliance monitor or the government. It's actually a very big deal. It's not getting a lot of attention in the news, but that's huge. They were using data systems to find out what they were paying their workers and adjust down those wages with each other. All right. In other news Elaine Luria Representative Elaine Luria, who led part of the 16 committee's primetime public hearing last week, she's the one who put up the Hawley video. She released a video Monday featuring previously unseen testimony about former President Trump's reluctance to condemn the violent actions of his supporters after the Capitol riot. It took more than 24 hours for President Trump to address the nation again after his Rose garden video on January 6th in which he affectionately told his followers to go home in peace. She tweeted that alongside a video, there were more things he was unwilling to say. And then in the video, you see Ivanka Trump, the former president's daughter who served as one of his top advisers, responding to a draft copy of his remarks from the White House on January 7th. It had several lines of text crossed out. One of the crossed outlines said, I want to be very clear. You do not represent me. You do not represent our movement. He crossed that out. He wouldn't say it. Another stricken part would have asserted that the former president was directing the Department of Justice to ensure all lawbreakers are prosecuted to the full extent of the law. We must send a clear message not with mercy, but with justice. Legal consequences must be swift and firm. That was all crossed out. Now he's dangling pardons for them. Ivanka Trump said the revisions were in her father's handwriting. And in a separate interview, Ivanka's husband, former White House top aide and advisor Jared Kushner, said he had discussed the remarks with others who agreed it was important to further call for de escalation. When asked why lines were crossed out, Kushner responded in a clip from an interview, I don't know. This footage builds on testimony shown last week at the hearing, which was the panel's eighth hearing then it focused on the 187 minutes between the end of Trump's speech at the Ellipse and the video he sent out telling his supporters he loved them and urging them to go home. And this is, this story will seem shocking, but it's not that big of a deal. I mean, it is, but it's not as bad as it's being made out to be. Georgia judge. A Georgia judge on Monday blocked and County District Attorney Fani Willis from investigating Senator Burt Jones. He's a Republican state senator in Georgia, and he is part of her investigation into the efforts by Trump and his allies to overturn the election. Jones is one of 16 fake Trump electors who signed on to the unofficial electorate certificate, the illegal one, in a plan to subvert the Electoral College. Jones is currently running for lieutenant governor in Georgia against Democrat Charlie Bailey. And Willis hosted a campaign fundraiser for Bailey last month and donated to his primary campaign earlier this year. In his ruling, Fulton County Superior court judge Robert McBurney said Willis's office may ask witnesses about the senator's role in the various efforts the state Republican Party undertook to call into question the legitimacy of the election. What her office may not do is make sure any such evidence, make sure of any such evidence, develop a case against the senator. The Prosecuting Attorneys Council of Georgia will select a replacement district attorney's office that can question Jones. That's part of Georgia's law, and that's why we don't announce investigations close to elections. And up next, one of my favorite people representing the 8th district in Maryland and author of Unthinkable Trauma, Truth and the Trials of American Democracy. I'll be speaking with Congressman Jamie Raskin. Stay with us after these messages. We'll be right back. All right, everybody, welcome back. Joining us today is the representative from Maryland's 8th. He was the lead impeachment manager for the second impeachment of Donald Trump. He sits on the January 6th select committee, and he's the author of Unthinkable Trauma, Truth and the Trials of American Democracy. Please welcome Representative Jamie Raskin. Jamie, thank you for joining me today.

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, I'm delighted to be with you guys.

[Alison Gill]

So I wanted to start off, you know, there's a lot of fear and concern about justice in our country today. And I think it's, you know, credibly based on what we've seen the last five years going on and perhaps longer. And some of your colleagues on the January 6th select committee, by the way, I think everyone agrees that the January 6 select committee is doing an Amazing job. If there were naysayers, I think that you have actually blown the roof off of the place and proven them right. And proven them wrong. But with regards to what the committee is doing with the Department of Justice, if there's any communication, if the stuff is getting to the Department of Justice, is there anything you can say to maybe allay or assuage the concerns that so many Americans are having right now about what's going on with holding the people at the top of the coup accountable? Your committee's exposing it to everyone, which is so important and so amazing and the work is truly incredible. But do you have any perhaps comforting words for folks who might be concerned about accountability?

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, the accountability means two things. One is individual criminal accountability, you know, prosecuting people and sending them to jail for their crimes. And the other is accountability to ourselves, social and political accountability. But you're asking about the former. And let me start just by saying that the DOJ is involved in the most sweeping and comprehensive criminal investigation in its history. They brought more than 850 prosecutions against members of the mob people for assaulting federal officers, destroying federal property, interfering with a federal proceeding, all the way up to seditious conspiracy, which is a very rare charge, which is the charge of organizing to try to overthrow or put down the government of the United States. But I know that there is great impatience and focus in the public about getting the people at the top. Obviously, none of this would have happened without Donald Trump. And people don't want to see this as another occasion of Donald Trump just waltzing away while everybody else takes the fall for his criminality. And obviously I share that sentiment. I'll just say that with these hearings, I think the ground has shifted underneath the doj. If there was any institutional reluctance to go after a former president of the United States for his crimes against the republic. And the three criteria that the DOJ is supposed to use in deciding whether or not to charge somebody where there is probable cause to believe they've committed an offense against the United States are one, the culpability of the offender. Obviously, he's guilty as sin, working to interfere with a federal proceeding to cheat the American people out of an election. And I would also argue seditious conspiracy. Two, is the gravity of the offense. And it's hard to think of a graver offense than this, a graver political offense than this. And the final criterion is to what extent we need to deter misconduct like this in the future. And that clearly is something we just can't have in constitutional Democracy generally, but especially in this century where the problems bearing down upon us are so severe. I mean, we should be working on climate change right now and gun violence, not trying to defend ourselves against Donald Trump in the proud place.

[Alison Gill]

Right. Yeah. And I carry that. You know, I agree with you with, with regards to, especially the seditious conspiracy charge because for a very long time I was like, hey, seditious conspiracy is hard. We lose those cases all the time. Let's talk about 1512, let's talk about 371 obstructing an official proceeding or conspiracy defraud the United States. Let's like keep, let's keep it chill, you know, and then Matthew Graves comes out, is able to button up the seditious conspiracy charges that Mike Sherwin almost pretty much destroyed, all but laid waste and was able to button that up and charge him. And I thought that, that I think gave me a lot of hope for, you know, at least the, the gravitas that Matthew Graves has at the D.C. u.S. Attorney's office. And I think a lot of people kind of mistakenly think that Garland is running the show and doing the investigation when it's really these U.S. attorneys and the line prosecutors that are doing the bulk of the work and really just taking their finished product to the Attorney General and either informing him or, you know, telling him, you know, what they're, what they're kind of up to. So I, you know, I'm very, very happy with our U.S. attorney in D.C.

[Jamie Raskin]

I agree with that and I think you're right. I mean, ultimately, you know, because we're talking about a former US President, the Attorney General will have to sign off on any, you know, effort to go to the grand jury for an indictment. But you're correct that all of the preliminary work, the detailed factual predicate, will be laid by the U.S. attorneys and the line prosecutors.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, definitely. And with regards to the Department of Justice and the committee, the interaction there, because a lot of us are also kind of worried. We saw what happened in Iran Contra. We know that if these two teams aren't working together that things can be jeopardized on both sides of the equation. I know that the committee's been trying to get stuff from DOJ. DOJ's been trying to get stuff from the committee. Is there some like a firewall up there to sort of keep the politicization out of the doj or to keep the DOJ out of Congress, or is there some sort of cooperation there? I know that recently they've been talking about getting some of the fraudulent elector transcripts from your work over to the Department of Justice because they are vigorously investigating that. And I know they do need it, not because they aren't doing the work themselves, but because they have to look for consistencies kind of in testimony because that can blow apart a case like it did for, you know, Durham's charge against Sussman when Peter Baker told three different stories to three different agencies. Not cuz he was lying, just inconsistent testimony. What sort of relationship does the Department of Justice have with the committee?

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, I would say it's an arm's length relationship. Obviously they are the law enforcement function in the executive branch. We're in the legislative branch. We're not in the business of prosecuting people. We're assembling materials for a report to Congress and American people. And we have every interest, like I think the vast majority of Americans in their being able to do their work. And I think that they have an interest in our being able to do our work. But other than that, there's no coordination taking place.

[Alison Gill]

Have they reached out to you at all with regards to this obstruction of justice or in your case, obstruction of Congress that we keep finding? I know that they did subpoenaed Peter Navarro for his communications with Donald Trump with regards to his subpoena that you guys gave him. I thought maybe that was a little bit of a peek into perhaps an obstruction investigation, but there seems to be a lot of attempted witness tampering going on. And I was wondering, I'm assuming you haven't heard anything back and forth with DOJ about that since it is that arm's length.

[Jamie Raskin]

Yeah. Nothing further. I mean, we have tried to operate in as far as formal a way as possible. We have made referrals to the Department of Justice of people who are acting in contempt of Congress. We've given people every opportunity to come and testify. Steve Bannon is an example of that. Navarro and Scavino are examples of that. But people who never spend one minute before the committee and don't give us a single document and are just thumbing their nose at the whole process. And that is in contrast to the vast majority of people who have cooperated voluntarily and in many cases enthusiastically with the committee to come forward to tell us what they know. But it's not like an invitation to a summer soiree. You get a subpoena, you show up if you think you've got some relevant privilege, whether it's Fifth Amendment privilege or attorney client or in some imaginary world a former president's Friend, privilege, whatever it is, you assert it. And we can let the courts sort that out. But you can't just think in your mind you're somehow above the process and stay home on the couch.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. No, and I think that that underscores the Bannon conviction. A lot of people are downplaying the Bannon conviction. Oh. It's a process crime. He needs to be, you know, hanged for trees like that. That kind of talk scares me. Like this overzealous sort of lockdown him up stuff that we usually see on the other side. But it is a very important conviction for due process of law and for people not to evade congressional subpoenas. I mean, would you agree?

[Jamie Raskin]

Sure. I mean, and we saw that kind of contempt of Congress in a lot of people around President Trump who thought that he was a king and they were above the law. I mean, the Congress of the United States is in Article 1 of the Constitution for a reason. We rebelled against monarchy. We overthrew that. And you can look at pages and pages of all the powers that Congress has, and then you get to Article 2 for the President in the Constitution, and it's four short paragraphs. The fourth paragraph is all about how you impeach the president for treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors. And his core job is what? To take care that the laws are faithfully executed. And if he's not doing that and instead out committing high crimes and misdemeanors against the people. Well, that's what impeachment's for.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm still of the mind that you can impeach somebody after they leave office.

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, yeah. And just on that point, I mean, there are more than two centuries of precedent that are on your side in terms of Senate practice, as well as in British history, which was the antecedent and the basis for our impeachment provisions. And that was an issue that we decided on the very first day of the Senate trial of Donald Trump. 54 to 46, rejected the idea that the Senate in them jurisdiction at that point, that should have been gone. But then McConnell brought it back up at the end in the context of saying basically Donald Trump was guilty. He said he's factually and morally and ethically responsible for everything that happened, but the Senate didn't have jurisdiction, which to me makes this the greatest case of jury nullification in American history.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, I concur. Before I let you go, because I know we're short on time here. You've got a lot to do. And Again, I thank you for taking time out of your schedule to speak with us. But I want to talk to you about your book because it personally for me was just absolutely had such a huge impact because it deals with personal trauma and it deals with national trauma and on a much smaller scale from what you went through. I am a disabled veteran. I have ptsd. And then also having to see what happened at the Capitol that day and then also having to go through when the Trump administration investigated me and removed me from my job in federal service because I was doing a podcast about the Mueller investigation. I wanna just first, I wanna thank you for your book. It's a beautiful, difficult memoir. Everyone needs to pick it up. You tell the story of the 45 days at the start of 2021 that absolutely just upended your life. You confronted the loss of your son, you lived through the violent insurrection and then led the impeachment effort to hold Trump accountable for inciting the political violence. Can you talk about any parallels you found between healing personal trauma and healing our national trauma?

[Jamie Raskin]

Well, you know, the psychologists define trauma as a violent disruption or demolition of your expectations for what life is going to be like. And in my case, you know, I lived with the happy thought that we would always have all three of our kids together and, you know, we would always have Tommy and we lost him. And you know, at the political level, I just always assumed that, well, however extreme all of the rhetoric got and the divisiveness, we would have a peaceful transfer of power and basic democratic institutions and practices would hold. And that was violently disrupted on January 6th. And I'd actually brought with me on January 6th, which was a week after we lost Tommy, our youngest daughter Tabitha, and our son in law, Hank, who's married to our oldest daughter, Hannah. So the family also made part of that trauma. I mean, Tabitha was hiding under Steady Hoyer's desk for a couple of hours while a mob pounded on the door outside and chanted hang Mike Pence. So, you know, I think that the pathway to recovery in all these cases is for me anyway, because I think everybody goes through it differently, has been to talk about it to a lot of people, to try to deal with the truth of these realities and then to re enter the struggle for the service of the people we love, the love of our family, the love of our country and community. And you know, I say in the book that Nancy Pelosi threw me a lifeline because I wasn't eating and I wasn't sleeping. And the truth was I kind of had A floating notion in the back of my mind that I would never be able to do anything of value or substance again in my career. And then she asked me to lead the impeachment team and go over to the Senate and it was like a lifeline because she was saying, we still need you and you've got a role to play here.

[Alison Gill]

It's just, it's so powerful. And you know, to have to go through, through that in such close proximity and then to have your family there to go through it as well, I think, doesn't that give you sort of a deeper sense of a need for justice, not just for your family, but for us? And also, by the way, I mean, thank you so much for sharing this memoir, because Americans need to know that they're not alone in that trauma. Do you know what I mean? The whole feeling of not being alone rips away anyone's ability to gaslight you, to make you think you're crazy. We didn't storm the Capitol. It was a siesta. It was a party. It was a tourist attraction. You know, I think that knowing that we aren't alone, and that's what your book does for a lot of people, is it takes away the ability to do that.

[Jamie Raskin]

You know, many people died. Several officers took their own lives in the immediate aftermath of this nightmare. And more than 150 cops, wounded, injured, broken necks, jaws missing, fingers, broken legs, toes, heart attacks, strokes, traumatic brain injury, you name it. I mean, I still have constituents who are officers who are in physical therapy twice a week and emotional therapy, too. This was a nightmare. You know, Sergeant Gunnell, who now is forced out of policing because his wounds have not healed sufficiently for him to be able to continue being a cop. You know, he served in Iraq and Afghanistan and said he'd never seen anything like that. And nothing prepared him for the brutality of this medieval style violence that the officer suffered. All with Donald Trump lapping it up back at the White House, watching it all on tv. I mean, nothing like this has ever happened in our history before. And if we just go on and dust ourselves off as if nothing happened, we're going to be inviting this kind of fascistic violence in the future. So I'm proud to be part of the committee that is bipartisan but singularly focused on trying to defend and restore our institutions against coups, insurrections, political violence, and attempts to steal elections away from the people.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, and we look forward to you continuing that work. I know that you're going to be reviewing more over August and then over the break. You'll be coming back. We'll be hearing more in September. And I thank you so much for the work that you're doing. It truly helps us not feel alone. And that sort of someone is being held to that social and political account that you're talking about.

[Jamie Raskin]

Appreciate that. And I appreciate very much the work that you're doing, which is so critical. And I would love to come back on your show sometime and spend some more time with you.

[Alison Gill]

I would love that very much. Everybody pick up your copy. You must pick up your copy of Unthinkable Trauma, Truth Trials of American Democracy. We will be watching. We're rooting for you to subpoena Ginny. Do it. That's what all my friends wanted, me to pass that along to you.

[Jamie Raskin]

All right. Message received. I appreciate that.

[Alison Gill]

All right. Thank you so much, Rep. Jamie Raskin, we'll talk soon.

[Jamie Raskin]

Best to you. Bye bye, everybody.

[Alison Gill]

Stick around. We'll be right back with the good news after these messages. We'll be right back, everybody. Welcome back. It's time for the good news. Who likes good news?

[Jamie Raskin]

Everyone.

[Alison Gill]

Then good news, everyone. Good news. Good news. And if you have any good news, confessions, corrections, anything you want to send us at all, I'm very happy to report we will read them. And I have a special guest planned for a couple of shows this week. You're going to be very excited when you find out who it is. Their voice will just is silky and wonderful and it will put you right to sleep. But you should stay awake for the news. If you have any, you might maybe want this surprise guest. To read your good news submission, send it in to us dailybeanspod.com click on Contact. First up from Jonathan. He him I have a double duty good news and a shit. My dad said good news first. The leadership training program I led has a community service component. Last week, my students helped register 850 newly sworn U.S. citizens to vote right after they took their oath. We're gonna do it again on the 26th in Texas now for shit. My dad said living in Texas, it can get uncomfortably warm in June, July and August when temps top 100 degrees. My dad would say that it's hotter than three rats fucking in a wool sock. My dad had phrases like that he'd call my boyfriends in high school. One of them said, dumber than six bicycles as sharp as a sack of wet mice. He's got a brain like a BB in a boxcar. All kinds of phrases like that. Jonathan adds for podpet tax. Here's Dole the burrowing horror. The second pic was taken three years ago today when my transgender son got his court order for name and gender marker change. He's been medically transitioning with testosterone since January 2020. Fuck Greg Abbott and Ken Paxton and their bigotry. Amen. Thank you, John. Look at this baby. What a sweet tabby boy. Looks like my Ned cat. Oh, look. That's so fucking cool. Congratulations. Congratulations. Ugh. That's wonderful. He's wonderful. He's got the flag there holding up his court paper. Hell yes. Next up, Kerry from Toronto. I've been coaching youth baseball as a volunteer for many years. I love it, but it's often thankless dealing with spoiled kids and crazy parents. Dude, some of those sports parents are like what? I once coached a kid that I remember as being a good kid but with severe anger issues. These issues were affecting his relationship with other players and coaches. I recently ran into him five years after he moved on from the team. He is now a successful college student. He told me that I was a big part in turning his life around by the way I related to him as an individual. I might not be the best baseball coach, but I always pride myself on understanding each person I deal with as an individual and not just one of the bunch. I'm adding a picture of the team after winning a tournament. Carrie, congratulations. Next up from Anonymous. Hello my fierce ladies. I'll hit the high note here. My good news is that my son just turned 28. He has served our country in the United States Marine Corps for five years. Hoorah. Thanks Devil dog. Settled in Milwaukee and put himself through college, earning his bachelor's degree while interning at a Division 1 university and help helping bring hockey, a hockey team, to a national championship. He recently accepted a position of strength and conditioning coach at another D1 college. I was pregnant at 19 and gave birth at 20 and raised him and his brother as a single mom. We weren't rich with money, but we were very, very rich with love. I have attached my favorite pics of him. Thank you for being two of the smartest and funniest ladies in the pod world. And no, he was not posing for the second picture. I love it. Oh my God. I call that the Bert face. Bert from Sesame Street. I make that face when I'm concentrating. So congratulations. Anybody you want to brag on your kids, send it in to me. I get a little teary as you can tell. I absolutely love it. Next up from Heller Pronoun. She and her my 19 year old progressive non Binary sweetheart of a kid gets pretty sad about the state of the world, but they're passionate about their job at a worker owned firm that canvases for progressive causes. They get paid well to go around talking to people about things they and we care about. The other day they said, I've changed some minds. Mom gives me hope. You guys are killing me today with these awesome fucking people you're raising. Next up from Steven, pronouns he and him. Thanks for giving out the daily news about which from my position on the outside looking in is the soap opera that is American politics. Yes, like sands through the hourglass. Stephen. The only downside is that here in Australia I get you Tuesday to Saturday and have to go through Monday mornings without you. Aside from the thanks, I'm ready to tell you of what I'm calling a parenting win. It's all parents today. This is so fucking cool. My daughter Penelope Poppy, who is 8. I was 8 when I got my ears pierced. I think we enjoy watching the local Roller Derby league in Adelaide. It's a very inclusive sport and it's great for giving young people confidence in what their bodies can do, whatever shape or size, which is especially important at her age. Roller derby has a position for everyone and Adelaide league is very LGBTQ friendly. Anyway, we were at a match which is called about yes this past weekend and she brought along her friend, we'll call her Jane to watch with us. Poppy was keenly pointing out the players and in particular her favorite player, Truffles, who identifies as they them. Jane asked, but why is he playing with all the ladies? Poppy's response made me so proud. It went like poppy, Jane, Truffles is a they, not a he or a she. Jane. But if he's not a boy or a girl, which toilet does he use? Poppy, who cares? And it's they, not he. Jane. I'm going to call him a he. He. He should use the men's toilet. Papi. Ugh, that's just being rude, Jane. Jane, why do you care so much about people's poop? It's not much, but I was heartened to hear her defending appropriate use of pronouns. Dana is very lucky she's not here today. She would be bawling her eyes out. Find attached a picture from one of our first Halloween events together as a family. Yes, Halloween photos. Ugh. Thank you. We went to Adelaide's Boo at the Zoo event and Poppy, then 3, decided she wanted to be Woody from Toy Story. So naturally, her sister at six weeks was Buzz Lightyear, complete with decorated stroller box. We've been embracing Halloween dress up ever since, with my wife and I also getting on the action. I'll save these photos for another submission. Those photos? Oh, yeah, no, you gotta send in the ones of you and your wife, too, Steven. Best wishes from Australia.

[Jamie Raskin]

Look at.

[Alison Gill]

There's. There's family. There's a pronoun defense. There's awesome kids, amazing things. There's court documents with name changes. There's infants. I'm forwarding this entire good news session to Dana because she will flip over it. This is absolutely wonderful. Oh, look. Look at the woody and buzz. Oh, thank you for sending these in. This was such a good, good news dump. Truly amazing. You are all incredible people. All of you. Absolutely every one of you. I wouldn't be here without you. So thank you. And thank you for raising amazing people. I'll be back tomorrow, possibly with a very cool special guest. Send in your good [e-mail] until then, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health, and vote blue over Q. I've been ag. Them's the beans.

[Jamie Raskin]

Refried beans.

[Alison Gill]

I like refried beans.