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The Daily Beans
Refried Beans | Get In Loser, We’re Going Bribing (feat. Jason Kander) | 2/02/2022
00:46:27
Feb 2, 2022 Trump considered blanket pardons for 1/6 insurrectionists before he left office; Colonel Alexander Vindman is suing Donald Trump Junior, Rudy Giuliani, and former White House staffers; Stewart Rhodes and Jeffrey Clark both testified to the 1/6 Committee today with public hearings likely to begin in April; Trump donated $1M to Mark Meadows’ non-profit weeks after the formation of the January 6th select committee; plus Allison and Dana deliver your Good News.
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- [00:00]
Alison Gill
MSW Media. Hey, everybody, it's Ag. And welcome to Refried Beans, where we play an episode of the Daily Beans podcast from the same week either one, two or three years ago, so we can see how far we've come. So please enjoy this episode from days gone by and note the date in the intro.
- [00:22]
Jason Kander
Refried beans. I like refried beans.
- [00:24]
Dana Goldberg
That's why I want to try fried.
- [00:25]
Alison Gill
Beans, because maybe they're just as good.
- [00:26]
Jason Kander
And we're wasting time.
- [00:32]
Alison Gill
Larry.
- [00:34]
Dana Goldberg
Daily Beans. Daily Beans. Daily Beans. Daily Beans.
- [00:45]
Alison Gill
Hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Thursday, Feb. 3, 2022. Today, Trump considered blanket pardons for 16 insurrectionists before he left office. Col. Alexander Vindman is suing Donald Trump Jr. Rudy Giuliani and former White House staffers Stuart Rhodes and Jeffrey Clark both testified to the 16th committee today, with public hearings likely to begin in April. And Trump donated $1 million to Mark Meadows nonprofit just weeks after the formation of the January 6th select committee. I'm Alison Gill.
- [01:16]
Dana Goldberg
And I'm Dana Goldberg.
- [01:20]
Alison Gill
Hello. Hello. Hello, Dana.
- [01:22]
Dana Goldberg
Hello. Hello. Every once in a while I get raspy voice, like whenever, because obviously you do the whole intro and that as you're doing it. I have a thought in my head that says, what's my voice going to sound like when I say something?
- [01:33]
Alison Gill
I haven't spoken to anyone today.
- [01:35]
Dana Goldberg
That's exactly it. I'm like. And I'm Dana Goldberg. Nope. Nope.
- [01:39]
Alison Gill
All right, I'm Dana Goldberg. Today, we're gonna talk about the news. I think that would be. Yeah, Coffee talk or the lady from Monsters, Inc.
- [01:51]
Dana Goldberg
Totally.
- [01:55]
Alison Gill
Love it. We have a great show today. I'll be talking with Jason Kander. He's a veteran and host of the Majority 54 podcast. He's a guy that was running for president but backed out because he wanted to go get help for his ptsd. He's a war veteran. New book coming out called the Invisible Storm. So we're going to be talking with him later. That's a really, really great interview. You don't want to miss it. And there's just a lot of breaking news today coming out left and right. So let's cover it. Let's hit the hot notes. Hot notes. All right, first up, from Tara Palmeri at Politico. In the final days of his presidency, Donald Trump seriously considered issuing a blanket pardon. I love that. Seriously considered issuing a blanket pardon for all participants in the January six riot, according to two people with direct knowledge of the matter, one of whom is not ken Cuccinelli. Between January 6th and Joe Biden's inauguration. On the 20th, Trump made three calls to an advisor to discuss the idea. Do you think I should pardon them? Do you think it's a good idea? Do you think I have the power? That's what Trump was asking the person who summarized the conversations. Another advisor to the former president said Trump asked questions about how participants in the riot might be charged criminally and how a uniform pardon could provide them protection going forward. Is it everybody that had a Trump sign or everybody who walked into the Capitol who could be pardoned? Trump asked. And that's according to the advisor. He said, some people think I should pardon them. He thought if he could do it, these people would never have to testify or be deposed. Why wouldn't Donald Trump want anyone who stormed the Capitol to testify if he has nothing to do with it?
- [03:32]
Dana Goldberg
Maybe because they were going to say it was all him.
- [03:35]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Or maybe there was even coordination between some of the top seditious conspiracists. Who knows? The people who spoke with Trump were granted anonymity to describe their discussions. Frankly, with Politico here. The previously unreported conversation shows that Trump wasn't simply musing when he told supporters at a Texas rally last weekend he would consider pardoning people prosecuted for their role, role in the attack. If, you know, he runs for President again in 2024 and wins. Even in the immediate aftermath of the riot, Trump was expressing sympathy for those involved and weighing how he could shield them from legal consequences. Trump's consideration of preemptive pardons quickly hit a wall. It was unclear how he could pardon an entire class of people that hadn't yet been charged. Quote, you didn't know who the FBI was going to arrest down the road, the first advisor said. At the same time, the White House counsel's office was forcefully telling Trump what he could do and not do as president. Quote, there was a dangling threat that if he pushed too hard, White House counsel Pat Cipollone would leave. That's what this advisor said. Cipollone declined to comment. That's how we know he's not the source here. The second advisor said that Trump's interest in pardoning the participants was like many of the other ideas he floated in the past to a cadre of aides, more brainstorming and soliciting their opinion than deliberately adopting a plan. The person said while Trump considered the blanket pardon, at the time, he was more focused on challenging the election results. The third advisor, who spoke with Trump frequently in the final days before he left office, recalled that Trump Asked questions about whether he should announce his intention to run again before Biden's inauguration, like, before he was even sworn in. Quote, at the time, he wanted to not just be the leader of the party, but flat out show the world he was running again. And you're not going to stop him. Okay. But Trump learned that a formal announcement would trigger concerns about campaign finance regulations he'd be forced to comply with immediately after leaving office. According to two advisors, he settled on more general language. I'll be back. So, yeah, that's. Yeah.
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Dana Goldberg
AG I want to thank you for giving me this story because I love it. I love it. Retired Army Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, dear friend of the show, as well as his lovely, amazing wife, Rachel. But Alexander Vindman, who, as we know, served on the National Security Council and emerged as a star witness against then President Donald Trump during the 2019 Ukraine impeachment, is suing him. He is suing Donald Trump Jr. Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, the former Trump White House staffers, lots of them, alleging they conspired against him. This is awesome. Vindman, in a new lawsuit filed in D.C. district Court, said Trump's family, his lawyers, right wing media, and others in the White House tried to intimidate and retaliate against him because he was willing to testify against the President at that time. That was Donald calling out Donald's entreaties of Ukraine for his personal political gain. And we. We saw that it's what he got impeached for. Yeah. Perfectly good phone call. He bluntly called the efforts to intimidate him obstruction and a lawsuit articulating over 73 pages. Vindman's saga in Donald's first impeachment aims to capture the plight whistleblowers face after standing up to the powerful political machine. There was a lot of blowback. I know. You know nothing about that?
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Alison Gill
Nope. Nothing.
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Dana Goldberg
Not a thing. Vindhman, the former Director of the European affairs at the US National Security Council. He seeks an unspecified amount in damages, saying his complaint aims for, quote, long overdue accountability. Also named in the suit are former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Dan Scavino and Julia Hahn, a former Breitbart editor who worked in the Trump White House. So, Vinmin, super qualified. Oh, yeah, I'm sure she was. I love to see her resume.
- [07:29]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I loved it. I got a text early this morning from Rachel. She's like, did it. I'm like, oh, shit, you guys got to come on the show. She's like, hell, yeah, that's awesome. So, yeah, I'm like, hi, fuck and five. And this is just what a group of incredible folks. Strzok McCabe, the Vindmans, even Michael Cohen, you know, just like, hey, this is, you know, this is fucked up. But this, this suit specifically, so well written. And I think it's, it's going to have a huge impact. Also today, Jeffrey Bossart Clark, the author of the Unsent Letter to Georgia, the Unrequited Election Fraud, love to Georgia, purporting that the Department of Justice had found election irregularities, which was a lie. And he did that to get him to send alternate slates of electors so that Pence could throw him out and, you know, also to, to sow distrust in the election results. Well, he testified before the January 6th committee today, Wednesday. Now, at the time of this recording, it is still unknown whether he's invoking his Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. This is the guy that Trump wanted to install as acting Attorney General, but faced a mass resignation threat at Department of Justice if that happened. And if you remember, he's also the one who, after he was subpoenaed, was supposed to come in, but then he was sick and so then they postponed it and then he was like, I'm still sick. So they postponed it again and now he's finally there. Beans. I'm gonna put beans on this guy invoking the Fifth. We'll know soon. Because when he first went in, he's like, fifth, Fifth Amendment privilege. I have privilege. And they're like, get out. Come back later. We'll subpoena you. Also before the committee today is oath keeper Stuart Rhodes, virtually from jail, who has pled not guilty to seditious conspiracy charges. Now, he made a deal with the Department of Justice that he would not like a plea deal or anything. They just agreed he would invoke his Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination for all questions regarding any of his actions from the election until now. So he's mostly saying, like, his military history, where he was born, and, you know, how he got the Oath Keepers together, but nothing about his criminal charges. And Jamie Raskin has told Hugo Lowell of the Guardian that the public hearings will most likely take place in April. Quote, yeah, had we not faced so much obstruction by Trump's entourage, we would be a lot further along now. Yeah, I brought this up like, they did it to Mueller, they're going to do it to you. As of now, the committee has heard from over 475 witnesses, Dana. They've received 60,000 pages plus of documents and now have over 700 pages from the National Archives that Trump tried to block. Now, notably from Kyle Cheney today at Politico, the Biden White House has indicated in a letter dated February 1, just a couple days ago that a new batch of National Archives documents sought by the committee pertain to communications to Pence about his responsibilities in certifying the vote. And the letter also mentions some of the records pertain to a lawsuit in which the Department of Justice represented certain parties. I think they're talking about what Raskin referred to as a key piece of the puzzle, and that's the Louie Gohmert lawsuit against Mike Pence, which included false Arizona electors as plaintiffs. By the way, the archivist has told Trump's legal team that he's going to send these documents over to the committee on March 3rd. Unless you, you know, have any kind of court intervention that probably won't work.
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Dana Goldberg
I would love to. I'd love to see Gomer in even more trouble over this, especially this lawsuit against Pence. Okay, let's go over to Bribeland ag. So I'm taking you there. The listeners are coming with me.
- [11:09]
Alison Gill
Get in, loser. We're going bribing.
- [11:11]
Dana Goldberg
Get in, loser. Former President Donald Trump's political action committee. His political action committee donated a million dollars to the conservative nonprofit organization where his former chief of staff, Mark Meadows. Huh. He's a senior partner. That's according to a campaign finance report filed with the Federal Elections Commission Monday night. Yes. In December, the House voted to recommend that the Justice Department pursue contempt of Congress charges against Meadows over his refusal to cooperate with an investigation into the Trump inspired January 6th attack on the US Capitol. Well, the tax deductible seven figure contribution to the Conservative Partnership Institute is by far the largest chunk of the $1.35 million in donations Trump's quote, Save America Pacific made to the political allies over the last six months of 2021. That's according to the campaign finance report Trump's PAC gave to 69 candidates for federal and state. Yeah, I have a feeling Trump was like, that's it. Stop it right there. Because that's funny. It's probably Eric or Don Jr. Let's make it 69.
- [12:19]
Alison Gill
Trump 69 at AOL. Check me out.
- [12:23]
Dana Goldberg
So he gave to 69 candidates for federal and state offices, many of whom have embraced his lie that he was defrauded in the 2020 presidential election. He lost, as we know, to President Joe Biden by an electoral vote rally of 306 to 232. And what a glorious number by more than 7 million raw votes. Now, the contribution to Meadows's nonprofit stands out both for its size and for its timing. On July 1, the House voted to establish a select committee to investigate the Capitol attack. Okay, this is where.
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Alison Gill
This is one thing. Where it's true. I give the biggest bribes. They're the biggest, most tremendous bribes.
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Dana Goldberg
No one's seen bribes like this before. Trump's pac.
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Alison Gill
Likes of which you've never seen my bribes.
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Dana Goldberg
Trump's PAC donated to the Conservative Partnership Institute, which bills itself as a training ground for conservative staff and elected officials. He gave that on July 26th. Okay, so on July 1st, the House voted to establish the committee. The bribe went in on July 26, or whatever you want to call it.
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Alison Gill
The donation.
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Dana Goldberg
Allegedly. I'm sorry. Excuse me. The donation. Yep. The Pack's largest contribution to a candidate, $10,000, went to who? Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick, who has been a guide to the Donald in navigating Texas's Republican primary politics. Now, most of the donations were made in $5,000 increments, and they went to most of the candidates the former guy has endorsed. Now, recipients of, quote, Save America checks include several candidates running for statewide offices, including Secretary of State and Attorney General.
- [13:57]
Alison Gill
Oh, that's big, because that's. Yeah. We know that several of these forged electors are running for Secretary of State and some of these key swing states, so. Makes sense.
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Dana Goldberg
Right? And they also have influence over the administration of elections, so that's why they're putting some money greasing the wheels, if you will. For example, Trump gave $5,000 to Arizona State Republicans Mark Finchem. Yep. A Secretary of State candidate who has called for the decertification of the 2020 election. And a matching amount to Rep. Jody Heiss, a Republican in Georgia who voted against certifying the election and is now running for Secretary of State. In Georgia, Arizona, and Georgia were the states decided by the smallest margins in 2020. Huh. I wonder why those donations are headed that way. Interesting. Excuse me.
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Alison Gill
Yeah.
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Dana Goldberg
Something in my throat. It's a bribe. The PAC's contributions. Excuse me, I need some water. There's a bribe in my throat. The PAC's contributions to Senate candidates included a donation to Republican Herschel Walker. Oh, yeah, you should hear his gay son. It's worse. The former University of Georgia and professional football star who played for Trump's team in the defunct usfl, the New Jersey Generals. That was the. The team. Now, on the House side, on the House side, Trump gave to Harriet Hageman, who is running a primary challenge, to Liz Cheney. Okay. So, yep. And then Cheney, as we know. And the reason this is happening is because she invoted Tim Peach him for his role in the January 6th attack. And we know that she's one of two Republicans sitting on the committee to investigate it. So we know why that money is going there. Yeah.
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Alison Gill
Too bad the FEC is peopled with who knows if this will get out of there or anybody will look into it, but it's news nonetheless. All right, I'm going to be right back with Jason Kander, New York Times bestselling author, veteran host of the Majority 54 podcast and former soldier. So I'm excited to talk to him. You don't want to miss it. Stay with us after these messages. We'll be right back. All right, everybody, welcome back. I am happy to be joined today by New York Times bestselling author, former army captain in Afghanistan, former Missouri Secretary of State, and host of the podcast Majority 54. Please welcome Jason Kander. Jason, hello.
- [16:13]
Jason Kander
Howdy. Thanks for having me.
- [16:15]
Alison Gill
Yeah. First of all, thanks for your service. Appreciate you.
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Jason Kander
You, too.
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Alison Gill
No worries. Although I often joke, you know, it was the Navy under Clinton, so it wasn't too dangerous.
- [16:24]
Jason Kander
Well, I mean, it was still an inconvenience at least. You know, there's small places they make you sleep in in the Navy is very small.
- [16:33]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Thrice up. But I did sign up. I did serve. So did you. And I appreciate you. And I wanted to talk to you specifically because as a veteran, we don't run into too many progressive veterans. Well, I mean, in the circles I keep. Yes, I do. And so whenever I meet one who's doing what I think, you know, call incredible work, I want to talk to them. And I want to talk to you about your podcast, Majority 54. Tell me about the name. Tell me about why you started it and how long you been doing it.
- [16:59]
Jason Kander
Yeah, so we started in 2017, and the name actually at this point is a little dated, but it's the name. I mean, it was named that because in 2017, after I had run for the U.S. senate and just barely lost, I had started this organization, Let America Vote, And I was getting around the country a lot, and let's be honest, I was getting ready to run for president. So I was all over the country and people were talking to me about all sorts of things. And I remember there was this just terrible malaise or like this demoralization of people in the progressive movement who just felt like they must be so outnumbered. And I remember at the time, the reason we named it Majority 54 was to remind the country that 54% of the country had voted for somebody not named Donald Trump in 2016. And then the concept of the podcast, which remains the case, was to help people have conversations with people in their lives who disagree with them or who are persuadable, but to actually engage them, not to shun them, as has become popular on the left. And that doesn't require you to be compromising in your views. It doesn't require you to adopt moderate positions. It's just about having meaningful conversations that change minds. And at this point, we also have a co host now, Ravi Gupta, and we talk about it in terms of how can campaigns, how can individuals, how can we be not reaching across the aisle to make deals, but reaching across the aisle to bring people over because of the simple fact that the numbers don't work? You can't just, you can't just talk to liberals and win like you. You have to go out and save souls. It's not enough to just say, we have more people than them because we're not always going to.
- [18:41]
Alison Gill
Yeah, and bridging that divide is, is, has. It's tough. It's tough. I, you know, I constantly get emails and messages. How do I talk to my family member about this? Or how can I bring them back off the ledge? Because everything is so polarized now. But we have this incredible opportunity, a silver lining, I guess, if you will, to bring in independent, moderate Republicans and Democrats into a tent just against autocracy and fascism and the far right wing, which is a very small percentage. And we might not see eye to eye on budgets and deficits and big government versus small government, but I think we can all see eye to eye on democracy. So what are some of the starting points that you find? You can talk to people who might not share your same political views, but certainly share our same views on democracy. What are some of those starting point conversations?
- [19:35]
Jason Kander
Well, the basics that we talk about a lot are personalizing it and, you know, utilizing the credibility that exists. So, like, if you're, if you're dealing with somebody that you have an interpersonal relationship with, there's a certain level of credibility and trust that is inherent in that relationship. And we argue that it's your responsibility to trade on that. Because, look, they're not going to see an ad on TV that convinces them to vote differently. They're not going to see, you know, somebody come on to their television and do a talking head routine that's going to convince them. But if their friend from church or if you know, you know them because your kids are in the same class, or, you know, you're. They're on the same little league team, or they're your neighbor, they've already consented to a relationship with you, you know, within which trust is built. And so if you are saying to them things that are not the same as what they're seeing on tv, if you say, for instance, right now we're having a big debate in this country about the nomination of a. Of a black woman as the. To the Supreme Court. And this debate over whether that is nominating the most qualified person or whether that is identity politics. You know, my argument is, look, there's never been a black woman on the Supreme Court of the United States. It's a perspective that has been missing since the inception of the country. And so it is an important qualification. And obviously, you know, the 115 white men who have been on the court, they weren't put there because they were the most qualified. They were put there in many cases because they were the whitest. And so, you know, there's those things. But if you say just that second part, you're not getting anywhere with anybody. But if you instead are dealing with somebody that you have a personal relationship with and you say to them, look, I understand how. How you can feel that way. I can see how you, you know, you could feel like, what does this mean for my job? And that kind of thing. But I really feel that it makes our country better when we have people who, you know, like, if you can personalize it and say, here's how I came to it, here's the math that I, who is similarly situated in my life, did in order to arrive at my conclusion. They may not adopt to the same conclusion as you, but you will soften their resistance to that conclusion because you've humanized it.
- [21:42]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And I think humanizing it is the key, and empathy, too, to try to understand where the other person is coming from, whether they, you or you them. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's difficult to understand that perspective. But, you know, I think if you really try, just even for a minute, it can make quite a difference. And I also wanted to talk to you today about your book that's coming out. It's called Invisible A Soldier's Memoir of Politics and ptsd, comes out in July. And I was hoping you could talk to us a bit about what prompted you to write it. And sort of the kind of the structure of the book is this like a personal memoir, but connected to current events and how, you know, you do what you talk about doing on majority 54.
- [22:29]
Jason Kander
Yeah. I mean, for me, you know, it's a memoir of a memoir that is a pretty unique story. I mean, it is my experience of pretty well running for president while also having an undiagnosed and untreated psychological disorder, post traumatic stress. And so, you know, I have had the great benefit having. When I announced that I was stepping back from public life in October of 2018, and I announced that I was doing it to go to the VA and to get treatment for post traumatic stress, I had this incredible reception that I didn't have any idea I was going to get. Didn't know what was going to happen. But I've benefited from feeling that there were a lot of people in the country because it was such national news that were pulling for me, and that was great. But it also meant that I got to see the impact on the stigma of me doing that. How many people wrote to me and said, you know, you've helped me see that. That I can get help. And you've. And people who had already gotten treatment were saying to me, you've helped me feel a little less stigmatized. And that was great. But after I went through therapy and achieved, you know, a chapter of my life that I refer to as post traumatic growth, I realized that there were an awful lot of people who still weren't getting treatment because they felt the way I felt for a long time, which was that it wasn't going to help, that they didn't really believe or have any evidence that getting treatment for whatever they were dealing with was going to be effective. And for me, if you look at popular culture, whether it be fiction or nonfiction accounts, it's really hard to even think of representations or portrayals of. Of people with post traumatic stress who aren't, like, playing into some stereotypical, what I call PTSD porn. They're. They're robbing a bank to feed their heroin habit after beating their wife. And, you know, and it's all flashbacks and. And so there was a moment for me in my treatment where I was really improving and I was bothered by it. And I asked my therapist, the va, like, how is it that I'm getting better and other people don't? He was like, what are you talking about? And he pulled out all these studies to show me that no, people who commit to the program and the way you have, they get better. The evidence shows, like, you're supposed to get better. And so what I wanted to write was the book that I wish I had had a chance to read 10 years ago. The book that would help me see, you know, my, you know, help me see my own experience played out in front of me, but also help me see that person heal and go through the treatment. So. And to get to the other side. So that's. That's what I wrote. And I'm really. It's the best thing I've ever written. I'm really. I'm really proud of it.
- [25:13]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And I can't wait to read it. Having dealt with PTSD myself for, gosh, almost 20 years now, and, you know, finally getting to the VA, thinking I'm having a heart attack, when it's actually a panic attack, never having been to the VA before, because, you know, we'll be honest here, the VA had a bad rap for a really long time, but finding out that the care that's available there, which I'm so glad, too, they're now they're making it available to folks who might have had an other than honorable discharge, who might not be able to means test into, you know, free care at the va, but the mental health care is available. I'm really looking forward to reading this book. And I do. I remember when you made your announcement and I was like, yes, thank you. Because I, at the time, I think I was watching Orange is the New Black, and of course, all the prison guards are former military with ptsd, and they're all just absolute assholes. And you're like, why is this synonymous? Why do we have. Or sometimes we see these active shooters or mass shooters who. Well, they're struggling with this. And I'm like, yeah, me too. And I don't go out and do that. So I'm so glad that you wrote this because I think it's going to help so many veterans and all sorts of everyone with ptsd. I mean, there's so much out there, especially right now with COVID and what we've gone through the last five years, and I think it's really going to help people see, you know, what's available to them.
- [26:35]
Jason Kander
Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, it is. It is a book where the backdrop is politics, because that's what I was doing. I was, you know, basically running for president and then ended up running for mayor for a little bit, and then. And then, you know, going to the VA instead of all that stuff. But, yeah, so in that way, it's. It's a pretty unique and interesting story. Right? I mean, but what it really is is just a story about, you know, my experience getting treatment and then getting better. And the truth is, like, there are people all over the place walking amongst us who have gone to treatment for PTSD because it's an injury and gotten treatment, and now they manage the injury the same way I manage, you know, a bad knee that I have, but I still run. And. But you're right, that's not what you see on tv. That's not what's portrayed. And we. We don't acknowledge that. That is a big part of why people don't get help. Because if you don't know that it is something you can get better from, then you fear the diagnosis because it becomes synonymous with a terminal diagnosis. Because if you believe that it is going to be terminal for your career and ultimately terminal for your life because it will result in suicide, well, then why would you ever go get treatment? Why would you ever go get diagnosed? But what I learned and what I talk about a lot in the book and displayed through my experiences, I learned that, oh, no, I. I had ptsd. I didn't treat it. I should have treated it. If I had, it would have been a very different story. But I went 10 years without treating it. And so then eventually one of my symptoms became depression. The entire, entire 10 years, I. One of my symptoms was nightmares, so I couldn't sleep. And if you go 10 years without sleeping and you become depressed, then obviously you're also going to become suicidal. And. And so what I had to learn was through therapy, I learned, no, suicidal ideation is not the result of ptsd. Suicidal ideation is a symptom of depression, which is a symptom of ptsd, which causes you not to be able to sleep. So, like, had I dealt with it right when I came home would have been a completely different story.
- [28:43]
Alison Gill
Yeah, and samesies. Ten years is what it took before the symptoms started bubbling up to the surf. You can only hold it down for so long.
- [28:51]
Jason Kander
Yeah.
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Alison Gill
One last question for you. I worked at the VA for a long time. One of the things that, that we struggled with at VA to get folks in was, and this is part of the stigma was that a lot of people with PTSD said, you know what, there's people with worse injuries. I didn't lose limbs. I didn't lose, you know, I don't have shrapnel in me. I, you know, I didn't get hit by an ied. I want to let those injuries, those are more important, those are more dire, they need more attention. And I think it's because of this misconception that, like you said, PTSD is just non curable, it's terminal, and it's. And. And also, you know, there's a lot of imposter syndrome. I mean, there's so many things piled up on top that make people not want to seek treatment. And so I was wondering if you had seen that or had encountered that, you know, well, my injury isn't. I didn't lose a limb, that kind of thing.
- [29:42]
Jason Kander
One of the things I talk about most in the book is this idea of, you know, what I did wasn't that big of a deal. You know, we started this conversation with you saying to me, I was in the Navy under Clinton. It wasn't the most dangerous thing. So we. I mean, we started this conversation with one veteran sort of unnecessarily discounting their own service. Right? Which is. Which is. I'm not criticizing you. That's what we all do all the time. And the reason for that, and I talk about this a lot in the book, in a lot more detail, is that one of the things that the military does is a very necessary form of brainwashing, which is the moment you get off the bus at basic, you are told, and you never stop getting told this throughout your entire service. What you're doing is no big deal compared to what other people are doing. And I can tell you, I was in Afghanistan, and I was getting a very clear message, and I was, by that point, giving myself this message. What I'm doing is no big deal. Right. The thing is, when we get out, and that's an important form of brainwashing, because if it wasn't, we wouldn't go do the dangerous or scary stuff that we got to do. I was an intelligence officer who went out and gathered information by sitting down with very questionable people who were much more heavily armed than me in most cases. And I was very outnumbered, and nobody knew where I was. It's just me and my translator out, very vulnerable for hours at a time. But I kept doing it because I was like, this isn't a big deal. I know people who are doing a much bigger thing. And this. I didn't get blown up. This isn't combat. You know, meanwhile, like, then I came home and I'm having nightmares about being kidnapped, and I can't, you know, sit in a restaurant without facing the door. But that was really valuable for me there, so I could keep going into those meetings and keep going out on the road. But here it wasn't valuable to me. But nobody ever flipped that switch off for me. Nobody just. And that's the case throughout the military. Nobody ever sat me down and said, hey, now that this is over, you should know that was some crazy shit. And. And you're gonna have to deal with that. And. And because of that and because of a lot of other factors that I talk about in the book, you know, we don't flip that switch off. So we are constantly convinced that we didn't earn whatever's going on with us. And it begins to feel. It very much feels like stolen valor. If you go and claim that mantle is how you end up thinking about it or just say, yeah, I have ptsd. And a buddy of mine who I talk a lot about in the books, kind of been a mentor to me in the process of getting help. At one point, when he was trying to convince me to go, he was a Marine who did two combat tours, and I did one tour, and we did different things, and he went through that. Getting blown up, getting shot at, that traditional stuff. And I would always say, like, man, but I didn't do what you did. And he would say, look, first of all, I don't know that I would have been able to do what you did. It was scary in a whole different way. He was like, but it doesn't matter. He would say, somewhere right now, there's a World War II vet sitting in a VFW hall saying, you know, yeah, I was at D Day, first wave, but I was in the back of the landing craft. He was like, that's what they teach us. They teach us that somebody did something more. And what we all have to learn is, you know, my brain doesn't know what your brain went through. It's totally irrelevant. You know, your brain went through what it went through, and you can't rank your trauma out of existence.
- [33:06]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I'm glad. Glad you said that. And I can't wait to read this book. My PTSD comes from military sexual trauma. So then there's even an added.
- [33:15]
Jason Kander
Right.
- [33:15]
Alison Gill
I wasn't even anywhere near anything, you know, so it's a lot of work trying to overcome that.
- [33:20]
Jason Kander
We all have different ways of discounting our trauma, as if that's gonna. As if we can discount it into going away, but it doesn't.
- [33:28]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Well, would you do me a favor? Tell everyone where they can follow you on social media, where they can get your book, and where they can listen to your podcast.
- [33:35]
Jason Kander
Sure. Thank you. First of all, I am at Jason Kander. J A S O N K A N D E R On both Twitter and Instagram. The book is called Invisible Storm A Soldier's Memoir of Politics and ptsd. You can get it wherever you buy books. And the podcast is majority 54, which you can get wherever you get this podcast.
- [33:56]
Alison Gill
Awesome. It's been really great. Yeah. Please subscribe. That's the key, right?
- [34:00]
Jason Kander
Yes, yes. Thank you.
- [34:01]
Alison Gill
Free to subscribe. Do it.
- [34:02]
Jason Kander
And you can pre order the book. Please do that too.
- [34:05]
Alison Gill
Available for pre order. Awesome. I will do that. And I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much. Thanks for all you're doing and I'll be following you and hopefully we'll check back in soon as we get closer to the midterms to see what kind of ground we've recovered.
- [34:19]
Jason Kander
Yeah. And have me back on in July and I can sell this book all over again.
- [34:23]
Alison Gill
Absolutely. Would love to. Thanks very much, Jason Kander. Thank you, everybody. Stick around. We'll be right back with the good news. All right, everybody, welcome back to the good news. Who likes good news? Everyone? Then good news, everyone. Good news, good news. We're already scrolling and laughing at some of these photos.
- [34:48]
Dana Goldberg
The first photo brings me a lot of joy. A lot of joy.
- [34:52]
Alison Gill
Me too. Oh, so good. Trump 69 at AOL. All right, so if you have any good news, confessions, corrections, anything you want to send us, wooby stories, lovey stories, blankie stories, please send them to us by going to DailyBeansPod.com and clicking on Contact. We love these stories. We love your good news. Happy places. Find the cat with them at whatever it is, send it in. I'm going to kick us off with the first two today. First up, because I got to. I got to get the second one here. So good.
- [35:17]
Dana Goldberg
You too.
- [35:18]
Alison Gill
Anonymous. Correction. Love the show. It's homes in. That's what I said. Not hones in. I said homes in. Okay. I think from homing pigeons. Yes, exactly. Big Bird is one. If you want. Anonymous corrector, I will. I will show you a screenshot of the screen.
- [35:35]
Dana Goldberg
It's possible it was me. I don't know.
- [35:37]
Alison Gill
Oh, I don't know. But anyway, thank you for this great service to us all. Neither too bland nor too depressing. Oh, thank you. You always know and show how we can fight and win. Margot from Mount Martha sends the same correction. Adding hone means to sharpen, home means to target. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. I don't.
- [35:57]
Dana Goldberg
I don't even remember now what we were talking about.
- [35:59]
Alison Gill
I know that they were. They were homing in on Pence's Team.
- [36:02]
Dana Goldberg
Oh, maybe it was you. And it wasn't actually you because you didn't say it. Who knows?
- [36:07]
Alison Gill
I don't know. Anyway, now we know.
- [36:10]
Dana Goldberg
Now we know. Thank you very much.
- [36:12]
Alison Gill
From James Pronoun. He and him. Dana mentioned she loves cats who fetch. So here's my sister's cat, Atticus, named for the fictional lawyer wrestling with her dog Indy, so called because we named the dog Indiana, with mixed success. Note the tooth. Atticus's favorite pastime is playing fetch with hair elastics. That's a good one. My sister or her partner will shoot one across the room. An Atticus will bolt after it, legs flying in all directions, and trots back with it in his mouth.
- [36:41]
Dana Goldberg
Oh, cute.
- [36:42]
Alison Gill
The second photo is another picture of Indy, just because the light is so good in that photo. Look at this.
- [36:47]
Dana Goldberg
The first picture. I mean, you've gotta. You gotta see it to see it, but the cat's like, you're not gonna do anything about this.
- [36:54]
Alison Gill
Excuse me.
- [36:55]
Dana Goldberg
Excuse me. The dog is biting my arm.
- [36:58]
Alison Gill
Oh, look at that. Lighting is. You're right. It's perfect.
- [37:01]
Dana Goldberg
It is. That is a golden hour.
- [37:04]
Alison Gill
Mm. Yep, we all know about that. Headshots.
- [37:06]
Dana Goldberg
Seriously. All right, thank you so much for those. We're moving on. We've got Sharice, a pronoun, she and her. Hello, all. Thank you for all you do and for giving us this platform to share our good news. Back in the summer of 2020, I wrote to tell you about a care package project we were undertaking where we were assembling and delivering care packages to incarcerated people in California state prisons. 1.5 years later.
- [37:26]
Alison Gill
I remember.
- [37:27]
Dana Goldberg
Ah. 1.5 years later. And we are done. Thanks to an incredibly generous donor, we were able to give a care package to every incarcerated. What? To every incarcerated individual in the California prison system. That translates to over 100,000 packages. That's fucking amazing. We have received hundreds of thank you letters and are so grateful that we were able to make a small difference in the lives of those who are too often ignored, but who also suffered tremendously because of the pandemic. Who are we, you might ask? Well, that's my second bit of good news. We are Mount Tamalpais College. Is Tamalpais, right?
- [38:06]
Alison Gill
I have never heard of this word.
- [38:08]
Dana Goldberg
Well, it's. I. If I'm not saying Tamalpais College correctly, please let me know who last week received our initial accreditation from the accjc, the regional accrediting body for community colleges here on the West Coast.
- [38:21]
Alison Gill
Nice.
- [38:21]
Dana Goldberg
With that quote, San Quentin State Prison is now the site of an academic institution unlike any other in the nation. An independent liberal arts college specifically dedicated to serving incarcerated students. This is so cool. Taken from an email that was sent out today. Now there's more information available at.
- [38:40]
Alison Gill
We'll put the link in the comments.
- [38:41]
Dana Goldberg
Thank you very much. Yep.
- [38:42]
Alison Gill
Yeah, we're going to put that. We'll just. We'll tell you. It's mttamcollege.org about accreditation.
- [38:51]
Dana Goldberg
There we go. Now, this accreditation opens many doors for our students. We could not be more excited for pet tax. I give you my two crazy rescues. The picture with both of them in the car shows Pixie on top, Elliot under her. And then we have two pictures of dogs in unexpected places. If you want to play with the mutt, Elliot's apparently Lhaso apso. Chinese, Crested Maltese. Pekingese. Yeah, Pekingese. Peki.
- [39:17]
Alison Gill
Pekingese.
- [39:17]
Dana Goldberg
Pekingese. Right. I guess we're. We don't have to guess. We have the answers. And Pixie is Pekingese, Brussels, griffin and Maltese, which, to much to our surprise, actually, I would have sworn terrier and poodle, but what do I know? Thanks for everything and keep taking care of yourselves. And this first picture. Oh, my God, look at the second picture.
- [39:41]
Alison Gill
Oh, look at the ears.
- [39:42]
Dana Goldberg
They're so. These dogs are such a cute mix.
- [39:46]
Alison Gill
Oh, adorable. I wouldn't have guessed any of those. Maybe Maltese.
- [39:49]
Dana Goldberg
I actually thought there was a Westie like a West island terrier in the terrier.
- [39:55]
Alison Gill
I'm with you. Yeah, I'm with you on that, too. Wow. Every single person incarcerated in California prison system got a care package. 100,000 plus packages.
- [40:06]
Dana Goldberg
That's incredible. Absolutely. Mazel.
- [40:09]
Alison Gill
Amazing, Wonderful, wonderful work. Next up, from Karen Pronoun. She and her. I've got a little bit of everything for you old. But good news is my longtime Republican husband officially registered as a democrat in order to vote for Biden. In no small part, thanks to you all and your wonderful news, we can use. We got a vote. We got a voter under things kids say. When my twin brothers were small, Lassie was a popular show. And my parents had informed them that Lassie was a collie. So they started mistakenly calling cauliflower Lassie flower.
- [40:40]
Dana Goldberg
That's funny.
- [40:41]
Alison Gill
Which we still call it today. Another cute things kids say or misunderstanding. When we were young and my parents wanted to get us involved or to understand politics, we were watching the local returns and they were listing the number of votes for each candidate in each ward. When Ward 1 came up, my sister said, oh, poor ward. He only got one vote. Oh, My God, she's now 61 and we still laugh about it. That's so great, Karen. Thank you for that.
- [41:10]
Dana Goldberg
So very sweet. All right, this is from Patty. Pronounce she and her hello fabulous beans queens. Some days just suck. It's all too much. And we need to end the day with a treat, right? Lots of days. Right. This is my recipe for insanely decadent fuck this day. Hot chocolate. That's the name. The recipe has evolved over the last two years and I only allow myself to make it after midnight. The recipe calls for a couple of fancy ingredients, but you can simplify if you don't happen to have snooty cherry wood smoked sea salt laying around. What? You absolutely must use excellent. Ohoho. You absolutely must use excellent dark chocolate, though. It's the law. To start, put some chopped up chocolate in a mug, half an ounce to an ounce, depending on how crappy the day was. I recommend 70% or darker bittersweet chocolate and not chocolate chips because they're engineered to not melt easily. And the whole point of this exercise is rich, silky chocolate. Okay, people. Pour in enough heavy cream to barely cover the chocolate and microwave it for 30 seconds or so. The idea is to get the cream hot enough to melt the chocolate. Now stir it up and if you have anything less than a perfectly thick, creamy chocolate paste, put it back in the microwave for a few seconds. Stir it again. Now add a little bit of vanilla bean powder, vanilla extract or vanilla bean paste. They're all good. Add a pinch of smoked sea salt, truffle salt, or regular salt if you must. But the best way to fuck this day is to spoil yourself silly. Stir in as much milk as you want. Use just a little bit if you want a rich European style drinking chocolate. Or more if you want something more American style, have it your way. Put it back in the microwave for 20 to 30 seconds or until it's perfect temperature for you. Stir it again to make sure it's perfectly smooth because fuck this day and you deserve the best. If it's not perfect, put it back in the microwave for a few more seconds. Now we go crazy. Grab that jar of Amarina, pronounced Amarena. So there you go, Dana cherries. They're fucking delicious. That's my addition. They go great in old fashions, by the way. All right, Cherries that you keep around for cocktails. Old fashioned. And splash a little bit of the juice into the hot chocolate. Add a cherry or two or half the jar if you want. I'm obviously in no position to judge Relax, savor the rich, decadent beverage and fuck this day. I recommend Jacobson cherry with smoked sea salt. For the salt, I use filthy cherries. Yes, that's a real brand. But you can also use Fabrio Luxardo or a fancy cocktail cherry Neon red maraschino Cherries are right. Are right out. Unless you have no other option, don't use those. And if you're that desperate to let me know and I'll send you some better ones because nobody should eat those vile things. I have no pet tags for today, but my cats boo and peek send their love and they insist that I must go to bed immediately so they can curl up on top of me. The end.
- [43:59]
Alison Gill
Patty, you should write for recipe blogs. Seriously.
- [44:03]
Dana Goldberg
Yeah, that was really good.
- [44:05]
Alison Gill
This day, hot chocolate and now I want this. Yesterday it was cake and now I want hot chocolate. I want them both.
- [44:11]
Dana Goldberg
There you go.
- [44:12]
Alison Gill
There you go. Thank you all for sending in your good news. This is incredible. Please continue to do so by going to DailyBeansPod.com and clicking on Contact.
- [44:21]
Dana Goldberg
Dana, Yes, I do have some final thoughts because I have some exciting news. I was going to wait, but I want my beans listeners to hear this. So if you have purchased a ticket for New York Live on February 9th in the city, it's going to be at the green room 42. Thank you. I can't wait to see you. It's not going to be a full venue, but we want to get as many people in person as we can. But I also want other people who may not have been able to see me perform or can't see me perform live for whatever reason to also enjoy what's going to be some chaos because it's my first live show of 2022. We're going to live stream the thing. Yes. So if you could, I want you to go onto the website. It's the Greenroom 42, and you'll be able to go to the venue tickets. You're going to scroll down to my show. It's just one date. It is the 9th of February. You're going to click on the live stream tickets. They're $19. That's all you got to do. If there's more people in your house and you want to purchase another ticket, it's going to help me out tremendously. It's been a hard year for a lot of live performers and so that way like six people aren't watching the same link. Just think about it as if you were buying a ticket to the show, but you can livestream the show. It's February 9th, Wednesday night, 7pm Eastern, 4pm Pacific, and I'm telling the beans listeners first. I would love to have people live streamed in your homes watching it. We'll have a small live audience and hopefully it'll give you a good laugh track, if you will, to your at home performance of Dana Goldberg live.
- [45:46]
Alison Gill
Amazing Dana in your living room.
- [45:48]
Dana Goldberg
That's it.
- [45:49]
Alison Gill
Couldn't think of anything cooler. Thank you so much for sharing that. That is awesome news. I didn't even know that this is the first time I'm hearing it. So it is breaking.
- [45:56]
Dana Goldberg
Yes.
- [45:57]
Alison Gill
Breaking news.
- [45:58]
Dana Goldberg
It is indeed.
- [45:58]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Thank you for that. Thanks. Great. Final thought, everybody. You know, we're still chugging along through the week and we'll be back tomorrow. And of course, don't forget Sunday, there'll be a new episode of Mueller, She Wrote and the MSW Book Club for Corruptible by Brian Kloss. I also want to thank Jason Kander for joining me today for the wonderful conversation we had. And until tomorrow, everybody, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, and take care of your mental health. I've been AG and I've been dg and them's the beans.
- [46:25]
Jason Kander
Refried beans.
- [46:26]
Alison Gill
I like refried beans.